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Revision as of 04:12, 23 November 2010
User:Bearcat has delete my page on Léon Vellone after I have followed all wiki rules and guidelines. Can you please ask that User:Bearcat restores my page. Thank You.
A request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution for conduct disputes on Wikipedia. The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and review previous decisions. The entire process is governed by the arbitration policy. For information about requesting arbitration, and how cases are accepted and dealt with, please see guide to arbitration.
To request enforcement of previous Arbitration decisions or discretionary sanctions, please do not open a new Arbitration case. Instead, please submit your request to /Requests/Enforcement.
This page transcludes from /Case, /Clarification and Amendment, /Motions, and /Enforcement.
Please make your request in the appropriate section:
- Request a new arbitration case
- Request clarification or amendment of an existing case
- This includes requests to lift sanctions previously imposed
- Request enforcement of a remedy in an existing case
- Arbitrator motions
- Arbitrator-initiated motions, not specific to a current open request
- recent changes
- purge this page
- view or discuss this template
Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.
| Request name | Motions | Case | Posted |
|---|---|---|---|
| Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation | none | (orig. case) | 13 May 2024 |
| Clarification request: Extended confirmed restriction | none | none | 29 May 2024 |
| Clarification request: mentioning the name of off-wiki threads | none | none | 4 June 2024 |
No arbitrator motions are currently open.
User:Bearcat has delete my page on Léon Vellone after I have followed all wiki rules and guidelines. Can you please ask that User:Bearcat restores my page. Thank You.
Requests for arbitration
Use this section to request the committee open an arbitration case. To be accepted, an arbitration request needs 4 net votes to "accept" (or a majority). Arbitration is a last resort. WP:DR lists the other, escalating processes that should be used before arbitration. The committee will decline premature requests. Requests may be referred to as "case requests" or "RFARs"; once opened, they become "cases". Before requesting arbitration, read the arbitration guide. Then click the button below. Complete the instructions quickly; requests incomplete for over an hour may be removed. Consider preparing the request in your userspace. To request enforcement of an existing arbitration ruling, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. To clarify or change an existing arbitration ruling, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment. This page is for statements, not discussion.
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Requests for clarification and amendment
Use this section to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
- Requests for clarification are used to ask for further guidance or clarification about an existing completed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
- Requests for amendment are used to ask for an amendment or extension of existing sanctions (for instance, because the sanctions are ineffective, contain a loophole, or no longer cover a sufficiently wide topic); or appeal for the removal of sanctions (including bans).
To file a clarification or amendment request: (you must use this format!)
- Choose one of the following options and open the page in a new tab or window:
- Click here to file a request for clarification of an arbitration decision or procedure.
- Click here to file a request for amendment of an arbitration decision or procedure (including an arbitration enforcement action issued by an administrator, such as a contentious topics restriction).
- Save your request and check that it looks how you think it should and says what you intended.
- If your request will affect or involve other users (including any users you have named as parties), you must notify these editors of your submission; you can use
{{subst:Arbitration CA notice|SECTIONTITLE}}to do this. - Add the diffs of the talk page notifications under the applicable header of the request.
This is not a discussion. Please do not submit your request until it is ready for consideration; this is not a space for drafts, and incremental additions to a submission are disruptive.
Arbitrators or Clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment.
Requests from blocked or banned users should be made by e-mail directly to the Arbitration Committee.
Only Arbitrators and Clerks may remove requests from this page. Do not remove a request or any statements or comments unless you are in either of these groups. There must be no threaded discussion, so please comment only in your own section. Archived clarification and amendment requests are logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Clarification and Amendment requests. Numerous legacy and current shortcuts can be used to more quickly reach this page:
Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation
Initiated by HouseBlaster at 02:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Case or decision affected
- Article titles and capitalisation arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
- Clauses to which an amendment is requested
- List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
- HouseBlaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
- Information about amendment request
- Split into two separate CTOP designations
Statement by HouseBlaster
The Manual of Style and Article title policy are jointly authorized contentious topics. Speaking for myself, I have {{Contentious topics/aware|mos}} on my talk page, because I was (and am) aware that the MOS is a CTOP. I was unaware until earlier today that article titles are also a CTOP bundled with the MOS CTOP, even though I was technically aware of the article title CTOP.
It seems that others are also unaware (in the conventional sense) that article titles are CTOPICs; at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Persistent WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior in WP:NCROY discussions it was about three days and 26KB of discussion before Guerrillero pointed out that article titles are already designated as a CTOP.
The MOS and article titles are related, but distinct, issues. I think they should be split into seperate CTOPs to reflect the fact that they are distinct issues. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding
giv[ing] administrators an awful lot of discretion
, I think that is the point of CTOPs: they give a lot of discretion to admins in areas that have historically been problematic. If admins abuse that discretion, that is a separate problem. We already have at least one CTOP (infoboxes) which covers particular discussions about an article rather than the article itself. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 15:21, 13 May 2024 (UTC) - Regarding Barkeep's comment, I should have been aware (in the conventional sense) that I was indicating AWAREness of article titles. That was completely my mistake. However, I still find it strange that this is a double-topic CTOP, and it is weird that I have to notify people who have never interacted with the MOS about its designation as a CTOP because they are involved in a dispute concerning article titles (or vice versa). HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 15:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Extraordinary Writ
Splitting the remedy is probably more trouble than it's worth. But while we're here: there hasn't been a logged sanction under this case since 2020, and that's probably because its scope is so narrow that most title- or MOS-related disruption isn't covered. Honestly there's a strong argument for just repealing it altogether, although the timing may not be right for that. An alternative would be to expand it to include RMs and the like (certainly there have been plenty of issues there), but that would give administrators an awful lot of discretion. The status quo of having the CTOP cover just the policy/guideline pages (which are often less contentious than the RMs) doesn't really make sense to me, though, and the lack of use suggests it's not doing much of value. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:13, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by SarekOfVulcan
I would oppose splitting them, because the application of the MOS guidelines to the article titles policy was a large part of the controversy that caused me to file the case in the first place. See also Comet Hale–Bopp. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
Article titles and capitalisation: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
Article titles and capitalisation: Arbitrator views and discussion
- FWIW, I'm not actually sure that the sanction from 2020 qualified under the scope of these sanctions. I would ping the admin who placed them but that admin is me (I thought they did at the time but have since come to doubt that). That said I've resisted including these when we've proposed areas to rescind because I know controversey remains. So where that leaves us here, I'm not sure, other than I wouldn't want to split them. In terms of not understanding their scope, the awareness template mentions Manual of Style and Article Topics so I think understanding that scope matters for the person saying their aware? Barkeep49 (talk) 14:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Extraordinary Writ that splitting this CTOP is more trouble than it is worth. I would be willing to rescind the CTOP for article titles, as MOS pretty much covers the same territory. If there is still controversy in this area as Barkeep suggests, then it seems like the CTOP is not addressing the concerns if it is not being used. Z1720 (talk) 18:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- If it's an issue of the wording of the CTOP being ambiguous then that should be clarified, but the MoS and the Wikipedia:Article titles policy both are similar enough that I don't think they need to be split. If there's evidence that the scope isn't working that should be addressed by expanding or narrowing it. - Aoidh (talk) 03:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with what Aoidh has said-- I understand why this was filed and the rationale for splitting them, but I think it might overcomplicate things. I think this is a useful CT regime to have otherwise, but I'm open to amending it if there's evidence of issues with the application/scope. Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 03:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Clarification request: Extended confirmed restriction
| There is a consensus among active arbitrators that the close of the conduct discussion was correct given that the initator did not have extended confirmed and the discussion fell with-in an extended confirmed restriction topic area. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2024 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Initiated by Ivanvector at 13:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request Statement by IvanvectorThis request concerns the extended confirmed restriction and its applicability to complaints about user conduct within an affected topic. A few days ago, editor BugGhost initiated a complaint at ANI regarding editor PicturePerfect666's conduct in discussions at Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2024 (ANI permalink). The complaint was entirely focused on PicturePerfect666's allegedly tendentious conduct with regard to information critical of Israel's participation in the song contest, reflective of real-world criticism and activism regarding Israel's ongoing invasion of Palestine. BugGhost specifically asked that PicturePerfect666 be topic banned. Since BugGhost is not extendedconfirmed, and the complaint entirely concerns conduct within that topic, I advised that the complaint could not proceed, but made no comment on its merit. My rationale for closing is that non-extendedconfirmed editors are not permitted to edit in topics where ARBECR has been imposed in good faith, other than talk page edit requests, therefore (in my view) since a conduct complaint is not an edit request, it is not permitted for non-extendedconfirmed editors to file them regarding conduct within the topic, nor to comment on them. On this I would like clarification, because I agree with some implicit criticism on my talk page that it is unreasonable. I have listed Valereee as a party because she added the contentious topics notice to the talk page on 28 December 2023 (diff), but she is not involved at all in the incidents described. PicturePerfect666 and BugGhost should be self-explanatory, and Yoyo360 is an extendedconfirmed editor who asked about "adopting" (my words) BugGhost's complaint. -- Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ValereeeStatement by PicturePerfect666Statement by BugghostAs the newbie here that this request is concerning, I'm not completely certain what kind of comment is expected of me here, so I apologise if anything I say is irrelevant or out of scope. Before writing the AN/I, I looked at the ARBECR guidelines and didn't see any wording that said that my filing was against the spirit of it. My interpretation was that AN/I wasn't a page related to any specific contentious topic, and the filing I was making was about a specific user's conduct, not about the contentious topic itself, and so it wasn't against the spirit of the restriction. I still stand by that - I made sure that my filing did not in any way weigh in on arguments of the related contentious topic at hand, just the behaviour of the user as shown by their edits. My filing was neutral on the contentious topic itself, without editorialising and without any discussion of assumed motive behind the behaviour - only their edits were brought forward. A consequence from this closure is that raising an AN/I about someone who is being disruptive on a contentious issue is harder than raising an AN/I about someone who is being disruptive on a non-contentious issue. If PicturePerfect666's disruptive behaviour on the Eurovision page was instead about a different topic (say, the Dutch entrant's surprise disqualification), then an AN/I filing from myself would have gone ahead, because that part of the page is not under the ARBECR. But seeing as they were disruptive about a contentious issue, they have been able to deflect my concerns - which seems counter to the ARBECR's aims of reducing disruption on contentious topics. I think that the ARBECR is a good idea but can be hard to interpret, and has the ability to dismiss reasonable well intentioned actions. In my view, it can contradict the "assume good faith" mantra, as assumption that I filed the AN/I accurately and in good faith was "trumped" by the fact my edit count being too low. As I said on IvanVector's talk page, I spent a long amount of time compiling a long list of the user's disruptive behaviour for the filing, including very specific diffs to outline each example, and it being dismissed based wholly on my edit count was very demoralising. As backed up by Yoyo360 suggestion to "adopt" it, the AN/I has some merits worth considering. BugGhost🎤 16:07, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Yoyo360I don't have much to add actually. I don't edit much on wiki:en, I'm mostly watching the talk pages of the Eurovision wikiproject to inspire me on the French-language counterpart (which is quasi inactive). I only come in when discussions have relevance for topics I also could add on wiki:fr and I noticed PP666 behaviour in the past weeks. I concur with everything BugGhost noted in their AN/I, they argued the case way better than I ever could. Noticing the topic had been closed due to the extended confirmed restrictions, I put myself forward to push the AN/I to be treated (as I now have the EC status on wiki:en) asking if it could be reopened in my name. I even have a few things to add to it but that's rather minor compared to the rest and off-topic here I think. Yoyo360 (talk) 15:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by Selfstudier
Statement by Sean.hoylandI think the closing was entirely appropriate and I agree with Selfstudier's statement. However, I think it is fair to say that the situation with respect to Yoyo360 at the time of the complaint posted by PicturePerfect666 at ANI is more complicated than "Yoyo360 is an extendedconfirmed editor". They were granted the privilege early (from an enwiki perspective) because, as the log says, they are a "10-year-old user with over 25,000 edits across all projects". This seems reasonable, pragmatic and it resolved the issue (although I'm sure imaginative people could cite it as yet another example of anti-Israel bias or rewarding complainers etc.), but for me, it's another reminder that none of us really know (based on evidence) the best way to implement/enforce EC restrictions in ARBPIA, how strictly they should be implemented, and that there is a lot of (costly) subjectivity and fuzziness involved at the moment. This is by no means a criticism or an endorsement of anything that happened in that thread by the way. I have no idea how to figure out how EC rules should work in practice to produce the best result. Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC) On gaming, as far as I can tell (in ARBPIA anyway), the notion of gaming to acquire the EC privilege only becomes useful after a person has become extendedconfirmed and you can see what they did with it. Statements about potential gaming before someone has reached 500 edits are usually not verifiable (e.g. unreliable inferences about intent) and not based on agreed methods to reliably distinguish between gaming edits and normal edits (probably because we can't really do that without the benefit of post-EC hindsight). It's true that gaming happens in ARBPIA and that the gaming vs non-gaming signals can sometimes be distinguished, e.g. here, where all of the plots that look like gaming, anonymized ARBPIA editors 2,5,6 and 7, are for editors blocked as sockpuppets. But regardless, I don't think there is much utility in raising gaming questions until after someone becomes extendedconfirmed and there is post-EC activity evidence to look at. To do so asks questions that can't be answered without a lot of handwaving fuzziness about revision size, necessity, constructiveness, gnoming-ness, character witness-like statements etc. AGF until there is a reason not to seems like the best approach to gnoming-like pre-EC edits. Sean.hoyland (talk) 07:33, 28 May 2024 (UTC) I'll add some quick responses to Ivanvector's kindness and frustration from a different perspective (as someone only active in ARBPIA nowadays, and not to make content edits).
Statement by BishonenAfter Bugghost was informed on May 19 about the EC restriction on Eurovision Song Contest 2024 and told they had "nowhere near 500 edits", they have started what looks like an attempt to game the 500 edits restriction by doing a lot of simple spelling corrections and are by this means now rapidly approaching the 500. In many cases the changes aren't even corrections — they changed the form pre-determined to predetermined in hundreds of articles yesterday, even though both forms are acceptable, and similarly changed lots of instances of pre-suppose to presuppose, where also both forms are acceptable. They made no spelling-"correction" edits before they were made aware of the EC rule for the Arab–Israeli conflict. I like to AGF, but this is ridiculous. See WP:GAME. Bishonen | tålk 10:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC). Statement by Novem LinguaeBugghost has been rewriting the article Windows Presentation Foundation over the last week or so. In my mind he is a talented newer editor that is doing good content creation and article cleanup work. In light of the gaming concerns above, I'd like to make sure the positive aspects of this editor are also considered. Thank you. –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by {other-editor}Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information. Extended confirmed restriction: Clerk notes
Extended confirmed restriction: Arbitrator views and discussion
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Clarification request: mentioning the name of off-wiki threads
Initiated by Just Step Sideways at 22:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
- Just Step Sideways (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
Statement by Just Step Sideways
Two recent situations have revealed what appears to be some vagueness regarding when and if users should email private evidence to the committee, the utility of doing so when it concerns a curent on-wiki, but non-ArbCom discussion, and also if merely saying that a thread exists is not permitted.
(I seem to recall that there is a case somewhere where the committee discussed very similar issues, but I've been unable to locate it in the archives.)
- In one case a user posted nothing more than the name of a very long thread at an off-wiki criticism site (they actually didn't even spell it the same as the actual thread title). It turned out that within this off-wiki thread, if one dug through it long enough, there was a link to a different thread where the very user who had made the on-wiki post was outed. This resulted in a very large number of diffs on a busy page being supressed, even though there was no direct link to any outing.
- In an ongoing RFA, some users are opposing based on what could only be described as completely harmless posts on that same forum. The recent supression action would seem to indicate that even posting the name of the thread on-wiki would lead to further supression, which is obviously to be avoided. One of these users has stated that they contacted the committee before posting, but it is unclear what this was meant to accomplish or what the committee may or may not have said back to them, if anything.
- I considered reproducing some or all of the RFA candidates posts on-wiki to demonstrate the point that they are comletely unproblematic unto themselves, but given the events described above I don't know if that would also lead to supression actions.
I feel like this has the potantial to create a chilling effect where users will be afraid to post anything at all on off-wiki criticism sites, no matter how innocuous their posts are the topic being discussed may be, and that even mentioning the name of a thread on such a site is now forbidden, which seems a bit extreme to me.
I understand and agree that directly posting a link on-wiki to a specific post that contains outing is a clear violation of the outing policy. It is less clear to me that posting merely the name of an extremely long thread with no actual link to the thread at all is a violation. I would therefore ask that the committee clarify where the line is.
I've deliberately not named the individuals involved in these incidents as this is matter of interpretation of policy, specifically Wikipedia:Oversight. I can email more detailed information if needed but I imagine it should be fairly easy for you all to determine what I'm referring to. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Barkeep, I'm not sure what I've got wrong, because I had to kind of piece together what actually happened as the material was supressed. I was pretty sure I'd got it right but guesswork is risky that way. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 23:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Tryptofish
I think it would be very interesting to hear ArbCom opinions on this question. In part, this issue comes up in the context of the 2024 RfA reform discussions heading in the direction of wanting accusations of wrongdoing against RfA candidates to be backed up with specific evidence, and the question comes up of how to provide specific evidence when it cannot be posted onsite. Does ArbCom want editors to submit such evidence about RfA candidates to ArbCom, and if so, can ArbCom respond to the evidence in a way that is sufficiently timely to be useful for RfA? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Floq
I have lots of thoughts, but they boil down to: we will not link to (or obliquely mention) any thread with outing/doxxing; consider whether it is accessible to the public so it can be verified; and consider whether the WP user has linked themselves to the off-wiki account. If any of the 3 tests fail, then you can't bring it up at RFA (or anywhere else at WP). Sorry, the world is imperfect. Based on this, you would very often be able to discuss a Discord discussion, and very often not be able to discuss a WO discussion, but with exceptions in both cases. It seems like further details on this aren't useful until and unless I become God Emperor of WP, and can just implement it, but I can expand if someone wants. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Vanamonde
I see this as a matter for the community, rather than ARBCOM. To me the heart of the matter is if, and how, we can discuss Wikipedia editors' off-wiki activities. ARBCOM has a role to play when off-wiki conduct impinges on on-wiki matters enough; typically, for harassment, collusion, or other disruption of our core purpose. The off-wiki conduct that has become a matter of discussion at RFA is very different: it isn't a violation of any of our PAGs, it is just behavior some editors find objectionable in an RFA candidate. We treat the off-wiki lives of our editors as private, and rightfully so. Discord and WPO are weird, in that they are strictly off-wiki fora populated by a large number of Wikipedians in good standing. I don't think it's an unreasonable position to take that behavior there shouldn't be immune to on-wiki scrutiny if it becomes relevant to on-wiki matters; I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that what happens off-wiki should stay there until and unless our PAGs are being violated, and then it needs to go to ARBCOM. But that's an area in which current policy seems to not cover all the contingencies, and the community needs to grapple with that. I don't see how a comment like this is useful to send to ARBCOM, or what ARBCOM could do if it was; but we're clearly unsettled as a community that it was posted, and we need to figure out guidelines for it. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Joe Roe
I agree that some clarification from the committee on these matters would be helpful. This isn't entirely up to them—for example, the ban on discussing Discord discussions is the result of a community RfC and it would be inappropriate to modify it either way here—but ArbCom has historically played a role in making editors feel generally uncomfortable about linking to things off-wiki. More specifically, a 2007 remedy pronouncing that quoting private correspondence is a copyright violation is still on the books and still cited in WP:EMAILPOST. Does the current committee agree with this interpretation?
In addition, ArbCom has a responsibility to regulate the oversight team, and I've had a feeling for a long time now that they been enforce an extremely broad understanding of what constitutes "outing" that is not necessarily reflective of broader community opinion. Some direction there could also be very helpful: OS is used as "tool of first resort", or so the mantra goes, but we shouldn't underestimate how chilling it is to have an edit suppressed. – Joe (talk) 08:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Ferret
I'd like an opinion on this as well, not necessarily just for RFA. Specific to WP:Discord, I !voted in the Discord RFC to restrict copying and linking Discord messages. I did so based on my reading of OUTING, HARASSMENT, and the community expectations of IRC logs, rather than strictly what I'd prefer. That consideration included what Joe references about the copyright concern of "private" messages, which seems to be part of the long standing rationale around IRC messages. I've also seen several times people suggest that OUTING goes as far as covering someone outing themselves on another Wikimedia project (i.e. a user page on eswiki), meaning that's not good enough to mention here on English Wikipedia. Prior to SUL, that may well have been, but SUL is long done. So what I'm really driving at is: Where is the line on identifying yourself sufficiently to be mentioned on site? Particular to the Discord, we have OAuth integration through an open source bot hosted on WMF resources. Is this enough to count as self-disclosure? Or does the connection to Discord have to be on-site (i.e. a userbox or otherwise)? Revisiting the Discord RFC is on the community, but some of these questions, such as EMAILPOST and how OS will act, are at least partially under Arbcom as Joe notes. -- ferret (talk) 13:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Barkeep49 Thanks. I have heard this said (Re: disclosure on other Wikimedia projects) repeatedly, but I did not know where it might actually be stated. -- ferret (talk) 19:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Thryduulf
Regarding Ferret's comments regarding disclosures on other SUL wikis. I have a vague recollection that this was discussed previously, but I don't remember where. I don't think a single hard and fast rule can be applied to that, but it's a matter of how reasonable it is to expect en.wp editors to be aware of the disclosure. For example if you make a disclosure on another wiki and you prominently link to that page from your userpage here, that should count as disclosing it here. If you disclose something on your e.g. eswiki userpage and make it clear on your userpage here that you contribute to eswiki, then again it's reasonable to take that as having been disclosed to the English Wikipedia. However, if you state something on the e.g. Russian wikisource's equivalent of Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style, and don't link to that page here, then it has not been disclosed to the English Wikipedia. Obviously there will be many things in between the extremes that can only be decided on a case-by-case basis. However, unless you are sure it has been intentionally or obviously disclosed somewhere it is reasonable to expect English Wikipedia editors to be aware of, then assume it has not been disclosed. Thryduulf (talk) 18:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Barkeep49 so basically what I said just more clearly and a lot more concisely! Thryduulf (talk) 19:05, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by hako
I think the community wants to have pretty firm protections against doxxing
I'd like the committee to make an explicit distinction between persons involved in the act of doxxing (or say vote canvassing or any other misconduct) on third-party sites, and persons who participate on those sites but are not abettors. It's futile to overreach and police what editors do and say outside wikipedia. Hypothetically speaking, I can say whatever I want on any third party site with a fictitious name, without any possibility of repercussion on my activity on wikipedia. Arbcom should act exclusively on cases where they find evidence of misconduct by an editor off-wiki without attaching any vicarious liability to other participants on that off-wiki platform. — hako9 (talk) 19:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
mentioning the name of off-wiki threads: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
mentioning the name of off-wiki threads: Arbitrator views and discussion
- Thanks for raising this issue JSS. As the OS who did the noticeboard suppression which named a thread, your facts aren't quite right there, but I don't think that takes away from the larger point you're raising. And it's one I admit to some discomfort with in an RfA context. As it stands I think the community wants to have pretty firm protections against doxxing. I also think the community would care about certain off-wiki activities. For instance, if User:Foo had lost Stewardship due to abuse on Miraheze/WikiTide there would be no cause for any action here, but I think the community would want to consider that information before passing someone at RfA. So don't have any answers (yet) but wanted to acknowledge some thoughts I had as I wait to see what other editors and arbs say. Barkeep49 (talk) 23:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Requests for clarification and amendment
Use this section to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
- Requests for clarification are used to ask for further guidance or clarification about an existing completed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
- Requests for amendment are used to ask for an amendment or extension of existing sanctions (for instance, because the sanctions are ineffective, contain a loophole, or no longer cover a sufficiently wide topic); or appeal for the removal of sanctions (including bans).
To file a clarification or amendment request: (you must use this format!)
- Choose one of the following options and open the page in a new tab or window:
- Click here to file a request for clarification of an arbitration decision or procedure.
- Click here to file a request for amendment of an arbitration decision or procedure (including an arbitration enforcement action issued by an administrator, such as a contentious topics restriction).
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Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation
Initiated by HouseBlaster at 02:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Case or decision affected
- Article titles and capitalisation arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
- Clauses to which an amendment is requested
- List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
- HouseBlaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
- Information about amendment request
- Split into two separate CTOP designations
Statement by HouseBlaster
The Manual of Style and Article title policy are jointly authorized contentious topics. Speaking for myself, I have {{Contentious topics/aware|mos}} on my talk page, because I was (and am) aware that the MOS is a CTOP. I was unaware until earlier today that article titles are also a CTOP bundled with the MOS CTOP, even though I was technically aware of the article title CTOP.
It seems that others are also unaware (in the conventional sense) that article titles are CTOPICs; at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Persistent WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior in WP:NCROY discussions it was about three days and 26KB of discussion before Guerrillero pointed out that article titles are already designated as a CTOP.
The MOS and article titles are related, but distinct, issues. I think they should be split into seperate CTOPs to reflect the fact that they are distinct issues. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding
giv[ing] administrators an awful lot of discretion
, I think that is the point of CTOPs: they give a lot of discretion to admins in areas that have historically been problematic. If admins abuse that discretion, that is a separate problem. We already have at least one CTOP (infoboxes) which covers particular discussions about an article rather than the article itself. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 15:21, 13 May 2024 (UTC) - Regarding Barkeep's comment, I should have been aware (in the conventional sense) that I was indicating AWAREness of article titles. That was completely my mistake. However, I still find it strange that this is a double-topic CTOP, and it is weird that I have to notify people who have never interacted with the MOS about its designation as a CTOP because they are involved in a dispute concerning article titles (or vice versa). HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 15:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Extraordinary Writ
Splitting the remedy is probably more trouble than it's worth. But while we're here: there hasn't been a logged sanction under this case since 2020, and that's probably because its scope is so narrow that most title- or MOS-related disruption isn't covered. Honestly there's a strong argument for just repealing it altogether, although the timing may not be right for that. An alternative would be to expand it to include RMs and the like (certainly there have been plenty of issues there), but that would give administrators an awful lot of discretion. The status quo of having the CTOP cover just the policy/guideline pages (which are often less contentious than the RMs) doesn't really make sense to me, though, and the lack of use suggests it's not doing much of value. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:13, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by SarekOfVulcan
I would oppose splitting them, because the application of the MOS guidelines to the article titles policy was a large part of the controversy that caused me to file the case in the first place. See also Comet Hale–Bopp. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
Article titles and capitalisation: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
Article titles and capitalisation: Arbitrator views and discussion
- FWIW, I'm not actually sure that the sanction from 2020 qualified under the scope of these sanctions. I would ping the admin who placed them but that admin is me (I thought they did at the time but have since come to doubt that). That said I've resisted including these when we've proposed areas to rescind because I know controversey remains. So where that leaves us here, I'm not sure, other than I wouldn't want to split them. In terms of not understanding their scope, the awareness template mentions Manual of Style and Article Topics so I think understanding that scope matters for the person saying their aware? Barkeep49 (talk) 14:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Extraordinary Writ that splitting this CTOP is more trouble than it is worth. I would be willing to rescind the CTOP for article titles, as MOS pretty much covers the same territory. If there is still controversy in this area as Barkeep suggests, then it seems like the CTOP is not addressing the concerns if it is not being used. Z1720 (talk) 18:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- If it's an issue of the wording of the CTOP being ambiguous then that should be clarified, but the MoS and the Wikipedia:Article titles policy both are similar enough that I don't think they need to be split. If there's evidence that the scope isn't working that should be addressed by expanding or narrowing it. - Aoidh (talk) 03:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with what Aoidh has said-- I understand why this was filed and the rationale for splitting them, but I think it might overcomplicate things. I think this is a useful CT regime to have otherwise, but I'm open to amending it if there's evidence of issues with the application/scope. Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 03:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Clarification request: Extended confirmed restriction
| There is a consensus among active arbitrators that the close of the conduct discussion was correct given that the initator did not have extended confirmed and the discussion fell with-in an extended confirmed restriction topic area. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2024 (UTC) |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Initiated by Ivanvector at 13:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request Statement by IvanvectorThis request concerns the extended confirmed restriction and its applicability to complaints about user conduct within an affected topic. A few days ago, editor BugGhost initiated a complaint at ANI regarding editor PicturePerfect666's conduct in discussions at Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2024 (ANI permalink). The complaint was entirely focused on PicturePerfect666's allegedly tendentious conduct with regard to information critical of Israel's participation in the song contest, reflective of real-world criticism and activism regarding Israel's ongoing invasion of Palestine. BugGhost specifically asked that PicturePerfect666 be topic banned. Since BugGhost is not extendedconfirmed, and the complaint entirely concerns conduct within that topic, I advised that the complaint could not proceed, but made no comment on its merit. My rationale for closing is that non-extendedconfirmed editors are not permitted to edit in topics where ARBECR has been imposed in good faith, other than talk page edit requests, therefore (in my view) since a conduct complaint is not an edit request, it is not permitted for non-extendedconfirmed editors to file them regarding conduct within the topic, nor to comment on them. On this I would like clarification, because I agree with some implicit criticism on my talk page that it is unreasonable. I have listed Valereee as a party because she added the contentious topics notice to the talk page on 28 December 2023 (diff), but she is not involved at all in the incidents described. PicturePerfect666 and BugGhost should be self-explanatory, and Yoyo360 is an extendedconfirmed editor who asked about "adopting" (my words) BugGhost's complaint. -- Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ValereeeStatement by PicturePerfect666Statement by BugghostAs the newbie here that this request is concerning, I'm not completely certain what kind of comment is expected of me here, so I apologise if anything I say is irrelevant or out of scope. Before writing the AN/I, I looked at the ARBECR guidelines and didn't see any wording that said that my filing was against the spirit of it. My interpretation was that AN/I wasn't a page related to any specific contentious topic, and the filing I was making was about a specific user's conduct, not about the contentious topic itself, and so it wasn't against the spirit of the restriction. I still stand by that - I made sure that my filing did not in any way weigh in on arguments of the related contentious topic at hand, just the behaviour of the user as shown by their edits. My filing was neutral on the contentious topic itself, without editorialising and without any discussion of assumed motive behind the behaviour - only their edits were brought forward. A consequence from this closure is that raising an AN/I about someone who is being disruptive on a contentious issue is harder than raising an AN/I about someone who is being disruptive on a non-contentious issue. If PicturePerfect666's disruptive behaviour on the Eurovision page was instead about a different topic (say, the Dutch entrant's surprise disqualification), then an AN/I filing from myself would have gone ahead, because that part of the page is not under the ARBECR. But seeing as they were disruptive about a contentious issue, they have been able to deflect my concerns - which seems counter to the ARBECR's aims of reducing disruption on contentious topics. I think that the ARBECR is a good idea but can be hard to interpret, and has the ability to dismiss reasonable well intentioned actions. In my view, it can contradict the "assume good faith" mantra, as assumption that I filed the AN/I accurately and in good faith was "trumped" by the fact my edit count being too low. As I said on IvanVector's talk page, I spent a long amount of time compiling a long list of the user's disruptive behaviour for the filing, including very specific diffs to outline each example, and it being dismissed based wholly on my edit count was very demoralising. As backed up by Yoyo360 suggestion to "adopt" it, the AN/I has some merits worth considering. BugGhost🎤 16:07, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Yoyo360I don't have much to add actually. I don't edit much on wiki:en, I'm mostly watching the talk pages of the Eurovision wikiproject to inspire me on the French-language counterpart (which is quasi inactive). I only come in when discussions have relevance for topics I also could add on wiki:fr and I noticed PP666 behaviour in the past weeks. I concur with everything BugGhost noted in their AN/I, they argued the case way better than I ever could. Noticing the topic had been closed due to the extended confirmed restrictions, I put myself forward to push the AN/I to be treated (as I now have the EC status on wiki:en) asking if it could be reopened in my name. I even have a few things to add to it but that's rather minor compared to the rest and off-topic here I think. Yoyo360 (talk) 15:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by Selfstudier
Statement by Sean.hoylandI think the closing was entirely appropriate and I agree with Selfstudier's statement. However, I think it is fair to say that the situation with respect to Yoyo360 at the time of the complaint posted by PicturePerfect666 at ANI is more complicated than "Yoyo360 is an extendedconfirmed editor". They were granted the privilege early (from an enwiki perspective) because, as the log says, they are a "10-year-old user with over 25,000 edits across all projects". This seems reasonable, pragmatic and it resolved the issue (although I'm sure imaginative people could cite it as yet another example of anti-Israel bias or rewarding complainers etc.), but for me, it's another reminder that none of us really know (based on evidence) the best way to implement/enforce EC restrictions in ARBPIA, how strictly they should be implemented, and that there is a lot of (costly) subjectivity and fuzziness involved at the moment. This is by no means a criticism or an endorsement of anything that happened in that thread by the way. I have no idea how to figure out how EC rules should work in practice to produce the best result. Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC) On gaming, as far as I can tell (in ARBPIA anyway), the notion of gaming to acquire the EC privilege only becomes useful after a person has become extendedconfirmed and you can see what they did with it. Statements about potential gaming before someone has reached 500 edits are usually not verifiable (e.g. unreliable inferences about intent) and not based on agreed methods to reliably distinguish between gaming edits and normal edits (probably because we can't really do that without the benefit of post-EC hindsight). It's true that gaming happens in ARBPIA and that the gaming vs non-gaming signals can sometimes be distinguished, e.g. here, where all of the plots that look like gaming, anonymized ARBPIA editors 2,5,6 and 7, are for editors blocked as sockpuppets. But regardless, I don't think there is much utility in raising gaming questions until after someone becomes extendedconfirmed and there is post-EC activity evidence to look at. To do so asks questions that can't be answered without a lot of handwaving fuzziness about revision size, necessity, constructiveness, gnoming-ness, character witness-like statements etc. AGF until there is a reason not to seems like the best approach to gnoming-like pre-EC edits. Sean.hoyland (talk) 07:33, 28 May 2024 (UTC) I'll add some quick responses to Ivanvector's kindness and frustration from a different perspective (as someone only active in ARBPIA nowadays, and not to make content edits).
Statement by BishonenAfter Bugghost was informed on May 19 about the EC restriction on Eurovision Song Contest 2024 and told they had "nowhere near 500 edits", they have started what looks like an attempt to game the 500 edits restriction by doing a lot of simple spelling corrections and are by this means now rapidly approaching the 500. In many cases the changes aren't even corrections — they changed the form pre-determined to predetermined in hundreds of articles yesterday, even though both forms are acceptable, and similarly changed lots of instances of pre-suppose to presuppose, where also both forms are acceptable. They made no spelling-"correction" edits before they were made aware of the EC rule for the Arab–Israeli conflict. I like to AGF, but this is ridiculous. See WP:GAME. Bishonen | tålk 10:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC). Statement by Novem LinguaeBugghost has been rewriting the article Windows Presentation Foundation over the last week or so. In my mind he is a talented newer editor that is doing good content creation and article cleanup work. In light of the gaming concerns above, I'd like to make sure the positive aspects of this editor are also considered. Thank you. –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by {other-editor}Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information. Extended confirmed restriction: Clerk notes
Extended confirmed restriction: Arbitrator views and discussion
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Clarification request: mentioning the name of off-wiki threads
Initiated by Just Step Sideways at 22:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
- Just Step Sideways (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
Statement by Just Step Sideways
Two recent situations have revealed what appears to be some vagueness regarding when and if users should email private evidence to the committee, the utility of doing so when it concerns a curent on-wiki, but non-ArbCom discussion, and also if merely saying that a thread exists is not permitted.
(I seem to recall that there is a case somewhere where the committee discussed very similar issues, but I've been unable to locate it in the archives.)
- In one case a user posted nothing more than the name of a very long thread at an off-wiki criticism site (they actually didn't even spell it the same as the actual thread title). It turned out that within this off-wiki thread, if one dug through it long enough, there was a link to a different thread where the very user who had made the on-wiki post was outed. This resulted in a very large number of diffs on a busy page being supressed, even though there was no direct link to any outing.
- In an ongoing RFA, some users are opposing based on what could only be described as completely harmless posts on that same forum. The recent supression action would seem to indicate that even posting the name of the thread on-wiki would lead to further supression, which is obviously to be avoided. One of these users has stated that they contacted the committee before posting, but it is unclear what this was meant to accomplish or what the committee may or may not have said back to them, if anything.
- I considered reproducing some or all of the RFA candidates posts on-wiki to demonstrate the point that they are comletely unproblematic unto themselves, but given the events described above I don't know if that would also lead to supression actions.
I feel like this has the potantial to create a chilling effect where users will be afraid to post anything at all on off-wiki criticism sites, no matter how innocuous their posts are the topic being discussed may be, and that even mentioning the name of a thread on such a site is now forbidden, which seems a bit extreme to me.
I understand and agree that directly posting a link on-wiki to a specific post that contains outing is a clear violation of the outing policy. It is less clear to me that posting merely the name of an extremely long thread with no actual link to the thread at all is a violation. I would therefore ask that the committee clarify where the line is.
I've deliberately not named the individuals involved in these incidents as this is matter of interpretation of policy, specifically Wikipedia:Oversight. I can email more detailed information if needed but I imagine it should be fairly easy for you all to determine what I'm referring to. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Barkeep, I'm not sure what I've got wrong, because I had to kind of piece together what actually happened as the material was supressed. I was pretty sure I'd got it right but guesswork is risky that way. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 23:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Tryptofish
I think it would be very interesting to hear ArbCom opinions on this question. In part, this issue comes up in the context of the 2024 RfA reform discussions heading in the direction of wanting accusations of wrongdoing against RfA candidates to be backed up with specific evidence, and the question comes up of how to provide specific evidence when it cannot be posted onsite. Does ArbCom want editors to submit such evidence about RfA candidates to ArbCom, and if so, can ArbCom respond to the evidence in a way that is sufficiently timely to be useful for RfA? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Floq
I have lots of thoughts, but they boil down to: we will not link to (or obliquely mention) any thread with outing/doxxing; consider whether it is accessible to the public so it can be verified; and consider whether the WP user has linked themselves to the off-wiki account. If any of the 3 tests fail, then you can't bring it up at RFA (or anywhere else at WP). Sorry, the world is imperfect. Based on this, you would very often be able to discuss a Discord discussion, and very often not be able to discuss a WO discussion, but with exceptions in both cases. It seems like further details on this aren't useful until and unless I become God Emperor of WP, and can just implement it, but I can expand if someone wants. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Vanamonde
I see this as a matter for the community, rather than ARBCOM. To me the heart of the matter is if, and how, we can discuss Wikipedia editors' off-wiki activities. ARBCOM has a role to play when off-wiki conduct impinges on on-wiki matters enough; typically, for harassment, collusion, or other disruption of our core purpose. The off-wiki conduct that has become a matter of discussion at RFA is very different: it isn't a violation of any of our PAGs, it is just behavior some editors find objectionable in an RFA candidate. We treat the off-wiki lives of our editors as private, and rightfully so. Discord and WPO are weird, in that they are strictly off-wiki fora populated by a large number of Wikipedians in good standing. I don't think it's an unreasonable position to take that behavior there shouldn't be immune to on-wiki scrutiny if it becomes relevant to on-wiki matters; I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that what happens off-wiki should stay there until and unless our PAGs are being violated, and then it needs to go to ARBCOM. But that's an area in which current policy seems to not cover all the contingencies, and the community needs to grapple with that. I don't see how a comment like this is useful to send to ARBCOM, or what ARBCOM could do if it was; but we're clearly unsettled as a community that it was posted, and we need to figure out guidelines for it. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Joe Roe
I agree that some clarification from the committee on these matters would be helpful. This isn't entirely up to them—for example, the ban on discussing Discord discussions is the result of a community RfC and it would be inappropriate to modify it either way here—but ArbCom has historically played a role in making editors feel generally uncomfortable about linking to things off-wiki. More specifically, a 2007 remedy pronouncing that quoting private correspondence is a copyright violation is still on the books and still cited in WP:EMAILPOST. Does the current committee agree with this interpretation?
In addition, ArbCom has a responsibility to regulate the oversight team, and I've had a feeling for a long time now that they been enforce an extremely broad understanding of what constitutes "outing" that is not necessarily reflective of broader community opinion. Some direction there could also be very helpful: OS is used as "tool of first resort", or so the mantra goes, but we shouldn't underestimate how chilling it is to have an edit suppressed. – Joe (talk) 08:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Ferret
I'd like an opinion on this as well, not necessarily just for RFA. Specific to WP:Discord, I !voted in the Discord RFC to restrict copying and linking Discord messages. I did so based on my reading of OUTING, HARASSMENT, and the community expectations of IRC logs, rather than strictly what I'd prefer. That consideration included what Joe references about the copyright concern of "private" messages, which seems to be part of the long standing rationale around IRC messages. I've also seen several times people suggest that OUTING goes as far as covering someone outing themselves on another Wikimedia project (i.e. a user page on eswiki), meaning that's not good enough to mention here on English Wikipedia. Prior to SUL, that may well have been, but SUL is long done. So what I'm really driving at is: Where is the line on identifying yourself sufficiently to be mentioned on site? Particular to the Discord, we have OAuth integration through an open source bot hosted on WMF resources. Is this enough to count as self-disclosure? Or does the connection to Discord have to be on-site (i.e. a userbox or otherwise)? Revisiting the Discord RFC is on the community, but some of these questions, such as EMAILPOST and how OS will act, are at least partially under Arbcom as Joe notes. -- ferret (talk) 13:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Barkeep49 Thanks. I have heard this said (Re: disclosure on other Wikimedia projects) repeatedly, but I did not know where it might actually be stated. -- ferret (talk) 19:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Thryduulf
Regarding Ferret's comments regarding disclosures on other SUL wikis. I have a vague recollection that this was discussed previously, but I don't remember where. I don't think a single hard and fast rule can be applied to that, but it's a matter of how reasonable it is to expect en.wp editors to be aware of the disclosure. For example if you make a disclosure on another wiki and you prominently link to that page from your userpage here, that should count as disclosing it here. If you disclose something on your e.g. eswiki userpage and make it clear on your userpage here that you contribute to eswiki, then again it's reasonable to take that as having been disclosed to the English Wikipedia. However, if you state something on the e.g. Russian wikisource's equivalent of Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style, and don't link to that page here, then it has not been disclosed to the English Wikipedia. Obviously there will be many things in between the extremes that can only be decided on a case-by-case basis. However, unless you are sure it has been intentionally or obviously disclosed somewhere it is reasonable to expect English Wikipedia editors to be aware of, then assume it has not been disclosed. Thryduulf (talk) 18:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Barkeep49 so basically what I said just more clearly and a lot more concisely! Thryduulf (talk) 19:05, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by hako
I think the community wants to have pretty firm protections against doxxing
I'd like the committee to make an explicit distinction between persons involved in the act of doxxing (or say vote canvassing or any other misconduct) on third-party sites, and persons who participate on those sites but are not abettors. It's futile to overreach and police what editors do and say outside wikipedia. Hypothetically speaking, I can say whatever I want on any third party site with a fictitious name, without any possibility of repercussion on my activity on wikipedia. Arbcom should act exclusively on cases where they find evidence of misconduct by an editor off-wiki without attaching any vicarious liability to other participants on that off-wiki platform. — hako9 (talk) 19:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
mentioning the name of off-wiki threads: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
mentioning the name of off-wiki threads: Arbitrator views and discussion
- Thanks for raising this issue JSS. As the OS who did the noticeboard suppression which named a thread, your facts aren't quite right there, but I don't think that takes away from the larger point you're raising. And it's one I admit to some discomfort with in an RfA context. As it stands I think the community wants to have pretty firm protections against doxxing. I also think the community would care about certain off-wiki activities. For instance, if User:Foo had lost Stewardship due to abuse on Miraheze/WikiTide there would be no cause for any action here, but I think the community would want to consider that information before passing someone at RfA. So don't have any answers (yet) but wanted to acknowledge some thoughts I had as I wait to see what other editors and arbs say. Barkeep49 (talk) 23:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Motions
 | This page can be used by arbitrators to propose motions not related to any existing case or request. Motions are archived at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Motions. Only arbitrators may propose or vote on motions on this page. You may visit WP:ARC or WP:ARCA for potential alternatives. You can make comments in the sections called "community discussion" or in some cases only in your own section. Arbitrators or clerks may summarily remove or refactor any comment. |
Requests for enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
| Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Galamore
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Galamore
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Ecrusized (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Galamore (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
Removing referenced statements & replacing with original research
Gaza Health Ministry
1. 15:12, 13 May 2024
Rafah offensive
2. 09:55, 9 May 2024
General 1RR violations:
Rafah offensive
1. 09:55, 9 May 2024 - Referenced sentence removed
Palestinian political violence
2. 17:19, 8 May 2024 - User revert
War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war
3. 08.13, 25 April 2024 - Referenced sentence removed
Gaza–Israel conflict
4. 17:56, 24 April 2024 - User revert
Zionism
5. 21:05, 21 April 2024 - User revert
Israel and apartheid
6. 15:38, 21 April 2024 - User revert
Palestinian political violence
7. 14:35, 21 April 2024 - User revert
2024 Israeli strikes on Iran
8. 16:58, 19 April 2024 - User revert
9. 09:25, 19 April 2024 - Reverted to a previous version
10. 08:25, 19 April 2024 - Sentence removed without edit summary
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 11:20, 14 April 2024
- Warned by another user about 1RR violation on 10:45, 14 April 2024. Did not self-revert.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I typically don't mind trivial 1RR violations if they were made in good faith. However, it struck me that the user had made hundreds of copy edits, from 20 to 31 March 2024, spamming categories to articles, in order to pass the 500 edit requirement for extended confirmed protection. Subsequently, they solely began editing controversial ECP articles in an aggressive manner. Additionally, it concerns me that the user was previously blocked for not disclosing their paid editing. Ecrusized (talk) 18:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Galamore
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Galamore
Hi, everyone My name is Gal, Gal the teacher (in Hebrew with English letters it comes out GALAMORE). I entered Wikipedia because I wanted to write about technology, I wrote the article on Perplexity.ai (which received 568,902 views so far!!), after I wrote about a few more high-tech companies I was temporarily blocked and warned not to engage in business matters probably for fear of receiving money for it. Almost every morning, before I start teaching, I go to Wikipedia to edit and I enjoy it very much. I am Israeli, so the Israel related topics interest me. If it is relevant, politically, in Israel I believe in peace with our neighbors and want an end to wars. When I see something that is biased, I try to balance it and bring sources from both sides. Even if there is an Israeli editor who makes claims that are "in favor of Israel" but are not substantiated, I will correct it - because I truly believe in balanced coverage of topics. I am not obssessive to my edits, I just enjoy adding information and I think it is productive to humanity.
On this occasion, may I ask where and when can I request that the prohibition to write on tech companies be removed? Galamore (talk) 07:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by BilledMammal
- Regarding the WP:OR concerns:
- At Rafah offensive they removed:
In addition, the offensive resulted in the temporary closure of the Kerem Shalom and Rafah crossings, further exacerbating the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
- In their edit summary they said
Kerem Shalom was closed due to the Hamas attacks, and now reopened, this is wrong and outdated.
- The first part of their claim appears to be correct; the source provided for the content says:
But Israel closed the Kerem Shalom crossing after a Hamas attack on Sunday killed four soldiers in the area, then mounted an incursion on Tuesday that closed the Rafah crossing along the border with Egypt.
- At Gaza Health Ministry they changed the lede from:
The GHM's casualty reports have received significant attention during the course of the Gaza–Israel conflict. GHM's casualty reports are considered credible by two scientific studies published in The Lancet.
- To:
The casualty reports issued by the GHM during the Israel–Hamas war have been subject to significant scrutiny. While some advocate for their accuracy, others cast doubt on their reliability.
- This change appears defensible based on the body which includes claims that the figures are reliable alongside claims that they are unreliable. BilledMammal (talk) 19:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding
Warned by another user about 1RR violation on 10:45, 14 April 2024. Did not self-revert.
- They appear to have attempted to self revert this violation, with 07:52, 14 April 2024 - however they self-reverted the wrong edit, 07:09, 14 April 2024 rather than 07:36, 14 April 2024. BilledMammal (talk) 19:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Since Selfstudier has linked it and it relates to two of the editors involved here, this comment, which was made by Ecrusized, wasn't appropriate in my opinion:
the latest change seems to come from virtually inexperienced editors, Galamore and GidiD with a heavy Israeli bias
- It only adds heat to the topic. BilledMammal (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding
Statement by Zero0000
OP doesn't seem to know what 1RR means. Zerotalk 09:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
For the sake of completeness, see also Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Galamore, gaming the system Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
And the discussion Talk:Israel–Hamas war#UN changes reported casualty figures.Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Galamore
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Ecrusized, can you break the 1RR violations down by article, and have they been warned about or asked to revert any 1RR violations? I don't see any engagement about that on their talk page. No comment yet on possible OR issues. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Black Kite and Drmies: just making sure you're aware this thread is here. The reported 1rr violations don't seem to be violations, but I am concerned about the edit warring over content that socks and editors banned and tbanned by Arbcom had been edit warring over. I try not to judge content choices unless there is a clear issue, and the edits to the lead are a summary of parts of the body. I think NPOV is a bit lacking, but it's not flagrant and I'm not sure if that alone is enough for action. Combining that with the history of the content being edit warred over brings me a lot closer to a sanction. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- What I said at the AN/I thread: Speaking as the administrator who a few months ago indeffed Galamore as a suspected UPE, after they wrote several extremely promotional articles about non-notable subjects: this doesn't seem like gaming the system. This seems like somebody -- I despise more than anybody for this to be true, but I must admit it -- editing in good faith, or at least not doing anything visibly wrong, along the rules that we explicitly tell them that they have to follow. If we don't think that "500 edits and one month" is enough for someone to edit CT articles, we shouldn't have thousands of words of policy teling people, repeatedly, in no uncertain terms, that making 500 edits and having an account for a month is required to edit CT articles. jp×g🗯️ 19:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- JPxG, are you at all concerned about their continuing an edit war primarily edited on one side by socks and people banned by Arbcom for off-wiki canvassing and proxying? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- I haven't had the chance to dig into this yet (though I will try to over the next couple of days), but I will say that such guidelines should not be treated like black-letter law which can have "loopholes". We can take an extreme case, say that an editor makes an account, waits thirty days, and then runs a script which adds and then removes a single character from their sandbox 500 times. It is perfectly valid, in such a case, to say "That is not what we meant, and that doesn't count. Make 500 real edits before you start editing in this area." Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:28, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, if it is literally somebody adding and removing a period from their sandbox that is one thing, but if it's five hundred non-deleted, non-reverted edits that improve the articles they're being made on, we have to accept that this was what we told people to do. jp×g🗯️ 08:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- As I mentioned at the AN posting about this, I saw the edits when they started editing in ARBPIA, and they looked constructive enough where I didn't take any action then. Those types of edits combined with immediately leaping into a long-term edit war that has been pushed by a sock, and had been supported by editors banned by Arbcom for off-wiki canvassing/proxying is more concerning, and I think that is where we should focus. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Noting that I have indefinitely topic banned the filer of this report, which doesn't actually clear up my concerns about Galamore. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- As I mentioned at the AN posting about this, I saw the edits when they started editing in ARBPIA, and they looked constructive enough where I didn't take any action then. Those types of edits combined with immediately leaping into a long-term edit war that has been pushed by a sock, and had been supported by editors banned by Arbcom for off-wiki canvassing/proxying is more concerning, and I think that is where we should focus. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Seraphimblade, I'm thinking a topic ban of 6 months and 500 edits in this circumstance. That forces more out-of-topic contributions, gives them more experience, and puts them further from any sock/proxy/canvass concerns. I'm also okay with no action if you're not convinced. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn't see doing anything time-limited here. If you're going to do any sanction, I think it ought to be indefinite, but very much in the "indefinite need not mean permanent" vein, and that constructive edits in other areas would likely be viewed favorably at a future appeal. I also don't think they've been previously warned, so unless I'm wrong about that, another thing to consider would be a logged warning, with a clear understanding that further issues will all but certainly result in a topic ban. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Logged warning for what, though? The NPOV stuff wasn't out of the norm. For me it really comes down to concerns about resuming an edit war where socks and canvased editors were originally taking part. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Then I would think for that? Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Logged warning for what, though? The NPOV stuff wasn't out of the norm. For me it really comes down to concerns about resuming an edit war where socks and canvased editors were originally taking part. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn't see doing anything time-limited here. If you're going to do any sanction, I think it ought to be indefinite, but very much in the "indefinite need not mean permanent" vein, and that constructive edits in other areas would likely be viewed favorably at a future appeal. I also don't think they've been previously warned, so unless I'm wrong about that, another thing to consider would be a logged warning, with a clear understanding that further issues will all but certainly result in a topic ban. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, if it is literally somebody adding and removing a period from their sandbox that is one thing, but if it's five hundred non-deleted, non-reverted edits that improve the articles they're being made on, we have to accept that this was what we told people to do. jp×g🗯️ 08:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
AtikaAtikawa
| Blocked one week for ECR violations. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC) |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
|
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning AtikaAtikawa
Background evidence: 18 May 2024 AtikaAtikawa knows how to post an edit request Various comments on Talk:War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war (permalink)
Creation of Israel–Palestine conflict userboxes
Polemicizing in MfDs for the aforementioned userboxes:
The editor has eight mainspace edits. All of their mainspace edits have been made between January and September 2020. The editor has 177 total edits, of which 31.1% have been deleted. 69.7% of their live edits have been to userspace. The user is generally inactive as an editor of Wikipedia, but has increased activity probably due to interest in the Arab–Israeli conflict, but instead of resuming normal editorial activity, which would mean making edit requests for a while, the activity has been predominantly polemical. Therefore, seeing all of this user's edits in total, the user is WP:NOTHERE.
Discussion concerning AtikaAtikawaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by AtikaAtikawaAs for the comments on Talk:War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war. I acknowledge that I failed at understanding ECR limitations when I made them; A rookie mistake that stems from the fact that I just started having interest in editing Wikipedia, and I'm still familiarising myself with the rules. In fact I was warned and I did obey. Briefly, I acknowledge my mistake here. As for the userboxes. I hope that you take into consideration my arguments in their MfD entries. Basically, I think that Alalch E. is assuming bad faith since he is accusing me of endorsing violence and deeming atrocities as just with no basis, and I think that I actually clarified that through the documentation that the filer deemed as "apologia for violence including atrocities against civilians" when it is just a statement of a viewpoint, that is against violence from both sides. As for the polemical comments. They were basically just answers to comments that were polemical themselves rather than referring clearly to policies that I did break. I totally understands that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm really open to advices that concern how could I have handled this better. As stated above, I'm well aware that I'm unexperienced, and I hope that my niche interest in the Arab-Israeli conflict will not be somehow held against me, rather I hope for whatever answer I'll get to this to contain referrals to the rules I broke in order to be mindful to them from now on. I acknowledge that my behaviour was suboptimal, and I acknowledge that it did stem from a potential lack of understanding the rules from my part, and I welcome any decision that comes from your part with the hope that it will serve the noble goal of making me a better editor with a better service to the encyclopedia rather than punishment just for the sake of it.— Yours Truly, ⚑ AtikaAtikawa 15:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by SelfstudierTechnical picky point, defendant is non EC and not permitted to make statements here (or anywhere, really). An admin could/should deal with this? Selfstudier (talk) 15:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Statement by The KipSeconding Selfstudier here - the defendant is several hundred edits short of XC status anyways, so this should be a fairly textbook warning (or TBAN) for violating the ARBPIA XC restriction rather than a drawn-out AE case. The Kip (contribs) 16:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by Vice regent@Alalch E.: can you remove this inflammatory comment? There are AGF interpretations of AtikaAtikawa's userbox, and these were given by Robert McClenon and Chaotic Enby. AtikaAtikawa themself wrote that the userbox doesn't support political violence, yet you still throw words like "pro-terrorism" around, and that raises the temperature.VR (Please ping on reply) 21:48, 25 May 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning AtikaAtikawa
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by אקעגן
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- אקעגן (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – אקעגן (talk) 15:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- 1 week block for ECR violations
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by אקעגן
I only made a change to a talk page, which is usually the way I can make my opinions known on a locked or protected page. The notice that it was only for extended confirmed users was on the top of the section, and not on the top of the page, so I missed it. I believe a week block is fairly severe under this circumstance. I have read through CTOP and ARBECR, and will abide by these rules to avoid this in the future.
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
I told them You could also read the information that was provided about the WP:CTOP designation on the Arab/Israel conflict and WP:ARBECR and demonstrate that you understand and will abide by the sanctions in the topic area in an unblock request
and yet we're still here. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would like a demonstration that they understand, rather than simply stating they understand. In my experience a lack of demonstration leads to further blocks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:33, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Newyorkbrad, I've read and understand everything. I also didn't read the block message that explains unblock requests. This is why I require a demonstration that they understand. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Starship.paint, actually explain how their edits violated the sanction, what is covered by the sanction, and how they'll avoid future violations. The same general gist we expect of all unblock requests. See WP:GAB which is linked in the block template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by אקעגן
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by starship.paint
אקעגן said that they have read through CTOP and ARBECR, and will abide by these rules
. I think that's good enough for an unblock. If they abide by these rules, and not WP:GAME ARBECR, we should be fine? Don't make 100+ trivial edits to reach 500 edits. starship.paint (RUN) 14:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: - you have made a mistake, this is not a complaint, this is a block appeal. starship.paint (RUN) 15:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: - you linked to a complaint at WP:ANI, but this is not a complaint. Editors are allowed to appeal their blocks, even if they have violated WP:ARBECR. In fact ScottishFinnishRadish copied over this appeal from אקעגן talk page, so if it was not allowed, I am pretty sure ScottishFinnishRadish would not have done that. starship.paint (RUN) 15:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish: - what demonstration can an editor make when still blocked? starship.paint (RUN) 15:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
Complainant per WP:ARBECR has no standing to even make this complaint and it should be dismissed with prejudice. See, for example see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive356#Selfstudier "As a non-EC editor, you essentially have no standing to make edits related to the topic. You can make an edit request, but any other editor can remove it, even without providing reason. Further, making a complaint against another editor as a non-EC editor in the WP:ARBPIA area is fully not allowed." Selfstudier (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Starship.paint: WP:ARBECR limits editors to edit requests at article talk pages, no exceptions. Blocked for ARBECR breach, complaint not allowed. Selfstudier (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Starship.paint: No, because this is merely an ARBECR continuation, the editor has no standing to do anything in relation to the topic area except make edit requests. Selfstudier (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Newyorkbrad: I don't object to an editor being permitted to edit in non CT areas, in fact we are trying to encourage that with ECR restrictions. Then, for the future imposed sanctions for ECR breach should be such that no appeal is permitted, time limited tbans? Selfstudier (talk) 15:30, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Starship.paint: No, because this is merely an ARBECR continuation, the editor has no standing to do anything in relation to the topic area except make edit requests. Selfstudier (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
I have a question for אקעגן. You were notified of the ARBPIA restrictions on 2024-03-20, and by convention, the assumption is that you read it because you removed it. You then made 9 edits to Portal:Current events/2024 to include content unambiguously within scope of the restrictions over a period of a month or so. Why did you think that was okay and what could have prevented it? Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Selfstudier's reasoning is interesting. Not sure I buy the "this is not a complaint" idea. It is a complaint against something, an admin action, the severity of the action, and it's a block appeal. It can be both. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:28, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by אקעגן
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- The ECR violation appears to have resulted from a good-faith misunderstanding, and the appellant indicates he now understands the issue, so I would grant the appeal. It's worth bearing in mind sometimes that ECR is a major change from how Wikipedia usually works, and that the nuances of the rules surrounding it are not inherently obvious to editors who don't spend much of their wikilives on the arbitration pages. @ScottishFinnishRadish: Based on reading the user talkpage, I think the appellant did not understand that your suggestion of "an unblock request" was a different process from an AE or AN appeal, especially since the appeal contains the same substance you suggested for the unblock request. @Selfstudier: The block prevents the editor from editing not just IP topics but Wikipedia as a whole, so there is clearly standing to appeal it. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- The original block was clearly justified, but I believe it is now very clear to this editor what is and is not allowed (as to some side discussion above, appealing a sanction is a longstanding exception to being a violation of that or any sanction, so of course blocked or otherwise sanctioned editors are permitted to appeal). So, at this point I would essentially reduce it to "time served". Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Sentaso
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Sentaso
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- TarnishedPath (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Sentaso (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- User_talk:Sentaso#Introduction_to_contentious_topics In this discussion I have advised them of what existing consensus is at Nick McKenzie
- 10:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC) Sentaso edits the archives of Talk:Nick McKenzie to insert a thread that never happened in the article talk. In their thread they make accusations that editors have "vandalizing this page" in reference to the talk archive without providing evidence. Additionally they have stated that JML1148, who closed an RFC, broke WP guidelines and again without providing evidence. Finally they have claimed that "It appears several Australian WP editors with possible conflicts of interest re. Mckenzie are attempting to whitewash his WP page". They have not provided any evidence for their claims of bad faith.
- 12:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC) Editor stated in a response to myself "You were dishonest with your initial reply stating "Consensus was determined to be that the material should not be covered at all" when the consensus was the opposite"". Editor has not provided any evidence for claims of my bad faith.
- 7:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor has reverted Talk:Nick McKenzie/Archive 1 to reinsert a discussion in there that never happened at Talk:Nick McKenzie
- 8:40, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor is WP:BADGERING me on my talk page in relation to Talk:Nick McKenzie by repeating to ask a question which I'd previously chosen not to answer because it is aggressive and meaningless.
- 8:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor is casting WP:ASPERSIONs in regards to my editing at Nick McKenzie. Once again evidence is not provided for the claims being made.
- 10:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC) Editor has reverted my talk page restoring a post that I archived after I [[Special:Diff/1226872000|specifically told them to never, under any circumstances, post on my talk page again. Post was in regards to Nick McKenzie.
- 10:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC) continued to post of my talk in violation of my request to not post on my talk page. Again post was in regards to Nick McKenzie.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Gave an alert about contentious topics in the area of conflict to another editor, on 02:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Editor had edited Nick McKenzie to insert material which RfC determined should not be in the article. Upon being advised by myself of consensus (as determined by RfC close) and what they could do if disagree with the close, editor has sought to misinterpret WP policy and engaged in casting WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:ABF. Editor appears to be a WP:SPA who is editing to WP:RGW. TarnishedPathtalk 14:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I have updated the diffs to include a revert that the editor just performed to re-insert a discussion into Talk:Nick McKenzie's archives which never occurred in the article talk. TarnishedPathtalk 07:38, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Sentaso, I have moved your comment to your section. Please write any comments you have in your section of the notice. TarnishedPathtalk 09:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Sentaso
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Sentaso
2. @TarnishedPath: JML1148 in their own words stated "numerical majority against removing the content" and then claimed there was consensus to remove the content.
- Yes, yourself and others related to this appear to be Australian as per your Wikipedia profiles. Mckenzie is Australian, and there's seems to be a commonality of those in favor of removing content related him are also Australian. Certainly potential for Conflict_of_interest
3. Evidence was in point 2 above re JML1148 comment.
4. I didn't reinsert anything, I don't know why you're making things up that WP history shows to be false. I added to the discussion highlighting it had been prematurely closed. I've also asked who/when the discussion was deemed over and with what authority, which you didn't answer. If yourself and associates had followed WP best practice there would clear sections on the page detailing why the page would be archived. The page has been blasted with text claiming the discussion is closed, but there appears to be no grounds for closure. I've asked you several times if you could source why this page was archived, which you've ignored, likely because you cannot.
5. As per comments on their Talk page (which he keeps removing) it appears TarnishedPath does not understand some aspects of WP:BLP.
A quote of yours from the Mckenzie archive "if McKenzie is not named, then what is the material doing on a WP:BLP about McKenzie? TarnishedPathtalk 00:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)"
BLPs do not always need to explicitly mention the subject's name as long as the information can be clearly and unambiguously attributed to the subject
6. Duplicate content, see my point 2 above.
7. You don't understand BLP, one should be grateful I highlighted your misunderstanding on your talk page
8. Duplicate content
Sentaso (talk) 09:06, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Regarding comments below, these references to talk pages are a red herring. The real issue is why the Mckenzie discussion page was archived, the sham RFC and why BLP is not being followed correctly for the Mckenzie page. Tarnished Path falsely suggested that BLP need to name the person which is incorrect. I did him a favor by raising this issue on his talk page and he gets aggressive and removes the content. Why not focus on the main issues instead of the number of edits a user has? Unhelpful Sentaso (talk) 13:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Sentaso
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I see one edit to the article, and some snarky discussion that displays they don't understand BLP. If they can demonstrate some understanding of WP:BLP I'd be willing to let this to with a warning. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:06, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd suggest that editing Tarnished Path's talk page four times after they'd been asked not to post there, included reverting Tarnished Path's own edits, is suggestive that they don't understand a lot more than BLP. (They've edited the article seven times, incidentally). When you also take into account the insertion into a talk page Archive of a discussion that never happened at that page, together with casting aspersions at other editors of COI and whitewashing (same diff), I'm unconvinced that an editor with 87 edits and this much disruption is a net positive at all. Black Kite (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, Sentaso, they're not a red herring, they're persistent poor editing behaviour and are a large part of your very limited editing history. Most good-faith editors amass hundreds if not thousands of edits without even one of those issues coming up, let alone multiple ones. He told you to stay off his talk page. You didn't, because you think you know better (" I did him a favor by raising this issue on his talk page"). You don't. What you need to say here is what you're going to do better in the future. Black Kite (talk) 17:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- The 87 edits is why I'd let this go with a warning if there was a demonstration that they understand the issue and will remedy it. I'm not opposed to something more substantial, however. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Absolutely. I do not see this from their comments here, however. Black Kite (talk) 07:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd suggest that editing Tarnished Path's talk page four times after they'd been asked not to post there, included reverting Tarnished Path's own edits, is suggestive that they don't understand a lot more than BLP. (They've edited the article seven times, incidentally). When you also take into account the insertion into a talk page Archive of a discussion that never happened at that page, together with casting aspersions at other editors of COI and whitewashing (same diff), I'm unconvinced that an editor with 87 edits and this much disruption is a net positive at all. Black Kite (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
LokiTheLiar
| No issues with the notification to the LGBT Wikiproject. BilledMammal, when you're frequently the target of accusations that you're weaponizing AE maybe don't weaponize AE in this way. You're more than aware of the community consensus around these notifications, as you've been involved in some of the discussions where it has come up. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning LokiTheLiar
Notified a partisan forum, violating WP:CANVASS. They were aware of this issue, and the RfC that this is a repeat of raised the same issue, but they rejected it and decided to issue the notification anyway. That this is canvassing can be seen in the evidence below, which analyses three recent RfC's held at the Village Pump and proves that the WikiProject is non-representative on this topic, with a collective opinion that deviates by a significant margin from that of the broader community. These WP:ARBCOM principles are also relevant (emphasis mine):
Note that this only applies to transgender topics. As far as I know the Wikiproject is not partisan on other topics within its area of interest and thus there are no issues with notifying them on those topics.
Other issues related to this RfC including misrepresenting sources; they have claimed that the Telegraph
There was a consensus in that discussion that notifying Wikiprojects is almost never canvassing; given the number of editors who qualified their comments there wasn’t a consensus that it never is. Further, this is a contentious topic; editors should stay well clear of violating policy, and notifying a fora that is known to be partisan isn’t doing that, regardless of what you believe consensus at an informal and non-specific discussion says. 12:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning LokiTheLiarStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by LokiTheLiarI anticipated that this user would make a tendentious report like this based on comments made on previous discussions, which is why I asked the village pump about this situation before I did it. In short, there is a strong and recent community consensus that notifying all relevant Wikiprojects is not WP:CANVASSING. And I would like to point out to any admins evaluating here that BilledMammal must know this because they participated in the thread. Loki (talk) 11:51, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
A statement by starship.paintI'm really not sure about this. Is it a surprise that WP:LGBT would be partisan on LGBT issues? No. But is the topic of the coverage of trans issues by the Telegraph related to WP:LGBT? Definitely yes? starship.paint (RUN) 09:36, 3 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by SelfstudierEchoing starship.paint. In AI area, we routinely post to 3 projects, one each on either side and the other theoretically neutral. Here there is no other "side" so presumably editors with an interest in the subject matter camp out at the given project and then we are led to believe there is evidence that this forum is "partisan". Not convinced that this is a sufficient reason to invoke canvassing, though, it's not as if it isn't being done in plain sight and projects are seemingly a natural place to advertise a discussion. Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 3 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by TarnishedPathThis is a particularly frivolous report that has been brought.
This should be closed with no action. TarnishedPathtalk 12:40, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Colin
Crap. I was referring to this RSN discussion where Loki wrote what I said he did and in which I participated. Seems there's now a second discussion on the very same page about the same thing. WTF Loki, what a mess. Didn't you RTM about not polling unless there was a clear consensus for your proposal? It was already an uphill battle to convince anyone to deprecate the Telegraph on this matter without you opening with careless comments about the cat litter story and then essentially saying that because they don't accept trans women are women, or have been interviewing The Wrong People, the are actually unreliable vs just believe different things to you. BilledMammal apologies about this. I think part of your latest post here is still wrong, but this isn't the forum to discuss that. Overall, though, I think BilledMammal should withdraw this. Being Wrong on the Internet isn't a crime and hasn't helped Loki's RFC. The notification thing clearly isn't something you've persuaded people here about, so likely is an area that needs some work elsewhere, where it isn't focussing on an individual. Since the RFC is a spectacular failure anyway, couldn't you just have got some popcorn? -- Colin°Talk 12:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by -scheSuggest trout for BilledMammal per Colin and TarnishedPath; notifying relevant wikiprojects (Loki notified the journalism, LGBT and UK projects and the NEWS page) is well- and long-established as fine, and (as pointed out above) was just recently affirmed. That BilledMammal presented his argument so recently in the VPP and consensus was clearly that notifying relevant projects is appropriate makes this filing look...tendentious; I don't know if it's forum-shopping per se, but it comes across as WP:IDHT-y. -sche (talk) 17:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Your Friendly Neighborhood SociologistBM should recieve a warning, not just a trout, for wasting the community's time for a month over this issue and this ridiculous filing based on WP:IDHT. Some context:
BM is attempting to sanction an editor for upholding a consensus that BM is not only aware has existed for a decade, but has been re-affirmed 3 times in the last month. WP:TE and WP:IDHT are obvious. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 20:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning LokiTheLiar
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JDiala
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning JDiala
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- FortunateSons (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:52, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- JDiala (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
User has a pattern of edit warring, incivility and NotForum violations, including but not limited to:
- 1 January 2024 improper use of Zionist and Soapboxing
- 14 February 2024 inappropriate use of “Zionist”, having received multiple warnings on their talk page; also Soapboxing warning by @ScottishFinnishRadish
- 28 March 2024 edit warring (most recent example)
- 26 April 2024 uses quotes by Yahya Sinwar on user page, removes them after inconclusive AN thread and request by Admin
- 27 May 2024 NotForum on Leo Frank, warned by @Acroterion @Doug Weller (see talk page)
- 29 May 2024 NotForum and two personal attacks, including against @BilledMammal
- 31 May 2024 Improper close followed by incivility
- Beans
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- Blocks 1 day in 2015, 1 Week in 2023 (both for edit warring in I/P area) by @Mike V and @Daniel Case
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [7] by @Doug Weller
- Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Issue is generally apparent on topics regarding I/P, with at least one occurrence in topics regarding Judaism. This is my first AE filing, so apologies for any errors.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JDiala&diff=prev&oldid=1227053862
Discussion concerning JDiala
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by JDiala
- The issue of the userpage quotes was brought up on WP:AN in this thread. The discussion was inconclusive. Two people on that thread arguing against me are proven or suspected sockpuppets (Galamore and ElLuzDelSur). Excluding them, far more people than not viewed the complaint as frivolous. Despite the inconclusive result, I voluntarily removed the quotes. Is this not indicative of my desire to be cooperative?
- A note on alleged edit-warring. The 28 March 2024 allegation of edit warring cites an allegation by SelfStudier without corresponding diffs. This is meritless. I admit there were three 1RR violations in November 2023. This was my first month following a near-decade WP hiatus. I don't think in recent months 1RR has been an issue for me.
- The issue of Leo Frank was an honest mistake where I mistakenly assumed that the sources for a particularly strong claim re: scholarly consensus came from a single CNN piece. Rejoinder to Red Rock Canyon: There are two citations in the lead, but the first has an unusual form "[n 1]" which struck me as a footnote. An honest error.
- The discussion on edits prior to 2016 is not fair. There needs to be a statute of limitations. FWIW I was born in the year 1998. I was a minor during those years.
- On the the self-closed RfC, this was an honest mistake, as I indicated in the AN discussion, based on a strict reading of WP:RFCEND which failed to take into account cultural norms regarding RfCs in contentious areas.
Update 06/05/24: In response to The Wordsmith's comment regarding recent diffs, I will say that while my tone was not the best, I think each case ultimately reflected a desire to cooperate and contribute meaningfully. I was not being uncivil for the sake of being uncivil. In this case it is true that I made an uncalled for comparison between closing an RfC and Israeli settlements. But the actual motivation here is to cooperate and accept that the community decided my RfC (and my closure) were not good and started a new one. In this case, I will concede that my tone was poor. The claim "[other] states like China and Russia, while awful, are significantly richer and more interesting societies" could be perceived as bigoted towards Israelis, and I should have worded it better in retrospect. I apologize to those offended. However, if one can get past the initial gut reaction that my comment was ridiculous, there was a legitimate underlying motivation. Other editors were questioning why other countries did not have war crimes in their leads, but Israel does. I responded with what I considered a policy-based reason for this: that WP:RS for Israel tends to disproportionately focus on war crimes (narrower focus), whereas for some other states (Russia, China) the RS discuss things more broadly ("richer"). That said, I will be more mindful of tone in the future if given a second chance.
Note: to stay within the 500-word limit after the update, I significantly shortened the points I wrote earlier.
JDiala (talk) 19:52, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Rajoub570
After posting a message on the admin noticeboard regarding this issue, I saw that there is already a discussion here. So reposting it here (shortened): The Israeli–Palestinian conflict, what is known here as ARBPIA, is a very sensitive issue. My personal opinion, as someone that the conflict also concerns his personal life (I am Palestinian :)) One should deal with the issue carefully. I would like to raise the issue of one editor - @JDiala's behavior that, as I see it, not only harm's Wikipedia's objectivity, but also harms the chance of a peaceful life in our area. Here are some examples:
- In the past, they featured quotes from Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar (who, no matter how we define him, is probably one of those responsible, along with Netanyahu and the extreme right from Israel, for the ongoing war) on their talk page [link], meant to praise Sinwar [link]. They were removed only after a lengthy discussion on this page.
- They currently have a quote on their talk page [link] that can be understood as a justification for the murder of Jews by Palestinians. I think that any quote that starts with "X do not go out to murder Y because they are Y" should not be acceptable on Wikipedia.
- A few days ago, they closed an RFC that they themselves opened, which raises a question of integrity [ongoing discussion: link].
- Recently, they stated that Israel is a rough state of the same level of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan [link]. In the same message they wrote that "For Israel, war crimes are a sine qua non, a core aspect of its existence", and stated that, unlike Israel, "Other states like China and Russia, while awful, are significantly richer and more interesting societies, with large economies, deep histories.", a weird comment.
I saw that editors have been asking them to moderate their language many times before. [link - 2014], [link - 2015], [link - January 2024], [link - February 2024].
The editor even received a week-long ban in December for violating 1RR. [link]
As a Palestinian, whose life is affected daily by the conflict, with my criticisms of Israel, I find this behavior problematic for Wikipedia. We have to stay objective. I think JDiala should be asked not to deal at all with a topic that clearly arouses their anger. Their edits hurt the project, and ultimately the Palestinians as well.
Please don't add fuel to the fire. Rajoub570 (talk) 15:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
I think both FortunateSons and JDiala are assets for ARBPIA. Very different kinds of assets with very different tones. This conversation shows how hard it is to build bridges and find common ground in ARBPIA. It would be good if JDiala could find a way to live with and adapt to what they regard as tone policing in the topic area. It's unfortunate that, in my view anyway, ARBCOM constraints accidentally create a selection pressure that give a fitness advantage to quiet, nearly invisible, highly motivated sockpuppets over noisy editors like JDiala.
Regarding "X do not go out to murder Y because they are Y", quotes from award winning Israeli journalists like Amira Hass are normally acceptable on Wikipedia. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by kashmiri
While certainly not raising to the level of an immediate block, the continuous low-lewel disruption by JDiala, evidenced above, has been annoying enough to many editors, including to me, that a temporary TBAN feels like an appropriate response. — kashmīrī TALK 17:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Zanahary
Very BATTLEGROUND-y in a way that is disruptive. I'd support a TBAN. On the user page quote: though I find the quote disgusting, and my interpretation of its presence on the user page is, to say the least, not positive, I don't believe in trying to interpret editors' views when it comes to making decisions about how to treat them, nor in sanctioning editors for their apparent views—I think sanctions should only be practical, and I think everyone has the right to whatever expressions and whatever impressions they desire (out of article-space). But I understand I'm in a serious minority there (right?). Anyways, that's all irrelevant. This user is disruptive and clearly doesn't edit with the care and spirit of collaboration that this topic area demands. Zanahary (talk) 23:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Coffee Crumbs
For the record, I'm at least slightly involved now as I have expressed dislike of JDiala's tone during the current RFC. As Kashmiri notes, it's not vandalism or one big blowup, but tiny bits of pecking away. The RFC close was absolutely atrocious; rather than see an unusually sparsely attended RFC on what is normally a well-attended topic, JDiala took it upon themself to close their own RFC in favor of their own proposal in an extremely contentious area. Between the quotes that ended up at ANI and the constant pushing of the singular subject as far as civility and stretching WP:NPOV like taffy, JDiala's a net negative in this area. Justifying their extreme one-sided behavior towards Israel by saying that there are "other states like China and Russia, while awful, are significantly richer and more interesting societies" and then comparing the idea of having a proper RFC to Israel's response when settlers' war crimes are alleged, is just more gasoline on the fire. Real WP:BATTLEGROUND stuff here. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 00:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by BilledMammal
I do not think in recent months 1RR has been an issue for me
isn't accurate. Just glancing through their contributions I see they violated it when trying to implement their close:
- 16:56, 25 May 2024 (reverted 09:39, 14 May 2024)
- 21:18, 25 May 2024 (reverted 19:53, 25 May 2024, which reverted 16:56, 25 May 2024)
BilledMammal (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Wordsmith, the first one is a revert because it undoes BillyPreset's rearrangement of the sentence. BilledMammal (talk) 02:24, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- BillyPreset moved
from human rights organizations and United Nations officials
from the end of the sentence to the middle; you moved it back to its former position at the end. That is a revert. As reverts go, not overly concerning, but it is a revert - and your second revert, edit warring to try to enforce an out-of-process close, is very concerning. - FYI, vandalism has a very specific definition on Wikipedia. Reverting the implementation of an out-of-process close does not meet this definition. BilledMammal (talk) 02:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- (This was in reply to this comment, which JDiala has now removed BilledMammal (talk) 04:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC))
- BillyPreset moved
Statement by The Kip
I've had little to no direct interactions with the user in question prior to today - I believe the closest I've come was voting to overturn the questionable RfC closure on account of it being a self-close in a CTOP. Upon interacting with their talk page (in a notice to move their comments in other users' sections above), I personally don't believe dismissing RSes as wholly unreliable due to being "sourced from Israel," nor referring to above complainants as "opponents," is indicative of one who will contribute constructively and cooperatively in the area over the long term; there certainly seems to be a considerable WP:BATTLEGROUND mindset at play. The Kip (contribs) 05:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Upon reviewing their statement here - with the multiple admissions of "mistakes," "errors," "misunderstandings," and such, I'm wondering if an "indefinite does not mean infinite" TBAN may be the ideal solution here. It would give them a chance to edit away from the topic area for a little while, learn to avoid these mistakes/work around these sorts of misunderstandings rather than letting them spiral into disputes, moderate their tone/rhetoric, and otherwise hopefully develop the cooperative skills necessary to constructively edit. If those conditions are met, an appeal sometime down the road shouldn't be difficult.
- As an aside, and despite their own ongoing AE concerns/case above, I'm not keen on the labeling of Galamore as a suspected sockpuppet due to a six-month-old case, in which a CheckUser found such allegations unlikely - while not quite a PA/aspersion, it feels uncomfortably close to one. The Kip (contribs) 18:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Red Rock Canyon
I am not involved in this case, but I saw this user's edits on the Leo Frank talk page. [8] is a lie, since even the line in the lead had another source right before the CNN one. It is not credible that they somehow missed it. And this [9] is worse. I see that this editor was already warned for these comments, but I think the warning is insufficient. They should not be allowed to edit any article that has anything to do with Jews. Red Rock Canyon (talk) 11:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
I have had a couple of differences with this editor but over content only. Should really dial the rhetoric back a couple of notches or a sanction is a foregone conclusion. Selfstudier (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Longhornsg
These additional diffs from a few days ago leave a lot to be desired on WP:NOTFORUM and WP:CIVILITY. Longhornsg (talk) 03:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Makeandtoss
I have dealt with JDiala and they were very open to discussion on the talk page. Over the past few months I have personally witnessed firsthand how quick they improved their behavior as soon as they were notified about a guideline or policy that they had not been aware about. I think it is a learning experience for them and so far they have shown no disruptive behavior of the sort that requires anything beyond a notification or a warning. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
Just noting that I'm staying out of this since some of the recent stuff deals with their response to my close of the close review at AN and their behavior on my talk page. Although I don't see myself as INVOLVED since it looks like there's some engagement from other uninvolved admins it's probably best to let them handle it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning JDiala
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- A few of the diffs presented in the initial complaint seem to be malformed, but I think I get the context. Looking over these issues, they seem to be things that JDiala was already warned or blocked for, so I'm not sure why we're here. Regarding the userpage quotes, I find them distasteful but the community did not find that they were against policy, and the user removed them when asked. It looks like the RFC was already overturned at WP:AN, and there didn't seem to be any real apetite for sanctions based on that.It gives the impression of seeking another bite at the apple. Regarding the diffs presented by BilledMammal, only the second one looks to be an actual revert.
- That said, there are definitely issues with tone and civility. I'm not sure a full topic ban is needed here, but a warning to tone down the rhetoric might accomplish the desired goal. The WordsmithTalk to me 02:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- After looking at the more recent diffs, there does seem to be an issue of rhetoric that's unhelpful if not outright hostile. I'd like to hear what JDiala has to say about them, but at this point a topic ban might be necessary. The WordsmithTalk to me 16:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- This sort of behaviour goes back at least December 2014 when I warned them over a statement thye made that seemed a breach of the sanctions {"perverse, POV Zionist narrative" which he then struck through}. Looking at that I found this post to an editor who is no longer around.[10] See the whole paragraph starting with "Classic Jewish supremacism." I don't think this will change and would support a TB from the s-i area. Doug Weller talk 11:37, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Dustfreeworld
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Dustfreeworld
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Dustfreeworld (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- [11] 5 June 2024—WP:PROFRINGE whitewashing
- [12] 5 June 2024—tag bombing
- Almost all their edits at Reiki 4 June 2024—tag bombing
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [13] 30 May 2024 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- “Unambiguous exposés of quackery will inevitably appear rude to some people and hurt some feelings. This is a fact of adult life.” Quoted from PMID: 15208545. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld: You cry consensus too many times, like the boy who cried wolf. I don't think you got a consensus, either at NPOVN, or at the article talk page. E.g. two of your edit summaries at Talk:Reiki claim consensus. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld:
ignorant
appears twice at the definition at [14]. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC) - @Dustfreeworld: I don't think you had consensus around 18:00 UTC, today, since at 17:13 UTC Valjean strongly disagreed with you at NPOVN. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dustfreeworld:
pointless tautology
does not mean that the claim would be false (being a tautology means it's always true, regardless of circumstances).must be cited to a source that says its practice has been characterized as quackery, not just sources that call it quackery
does not mean it should not be called quackery, it just means rejecting the words "characterized as quackery".The lead should be a summary of the body of the article, and there is nothing about such aspects in the article.
means what it literally means. tgeorgescu (talk) 21:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC) - @ScottishFinnishRadish: I warned them about contentious topics because they have tag-bombed Detoxification (alternative medicine). tgeorgescu (talk) 22:02, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- [15] 5 June 2024
Discussion concerning Dustfreeworld
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Dustfreeworld
WRT to point 1, for the first diff, my edit summary:
Remove poorly sourced material (contentious labels) that may damage the reputation of Reiki practitioners / participants, per WP:PROVEIT: “Do not leave unsourced or poorly sourced material in an article if it might damage the reputation of … existing groups”
All contentious labels I removed were supported by sources not compliant to WP:MEDRS, either published more than 10 years ago, or was opinion pieces / blog posts of potentially COI authors (e.g., David of SBM).
WRT to point 2, for the second diff, my edit summary:
Tag materials that violates NPOV, per article’s talk page and consensus on NPOV notice board. Special:diff/1227423119 BTW, David specialises in cancer surgery, which means he provides some form of treatment to cancer patients, i.e. he is not independent and there can be COI. Also it’s just a potentially biased opinion piece / blog post from SBM. Not even a primary research. I don’t think such subpar source can support such exceptional/contentious/potentially derogatory claim.
FYI, this edit was made before the one above, i.e. I tagged before I removed the material (it’s not needed per WP:PROVEIT, which is a section of WP:V, I tagged first just for transparency).
WRT point 3, all edit on 4June were reverted, and this is my response (another edit summary, prior to the above two) to the overtag claim:[16]
I don’t think it’s overtag. As I’ve said, over half of the sources used were published more than 10 years ago. Tagging dozens of sources at one time of course “looks like” overcite, but it’s not. Btw, WP:OVERCITE isn’t WP:P&G. The tags shouldn’t be reverted indiscriminately without adequate reasons. Anyway, I’m switching some of the inline tags to section tags per concern.
My edits are *not* “pro fringe whitewash” as the OP claimed. They are based on consensus on the NPOV notice board:
And our WP:Verifiability policy (WP:PROVEIT). (Also see the article’s talk page [18]. Further, this is the main reason for my edits. IMO Reiki is a relatively safe practice of which the practitioners haven't claimed their practice as "scientific". We should not state potentially false claims, as said by some advocates, against them in Wikivoice). The OP's claim is untrue. Thanks. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 20:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Tgeorgescu, there are words like fraud, fraudulent (twice), pretender and pretends in Wikipedia’s definition of quackery. Further, what I’m talking about is, the views, feelings, and their definition of "quackery", of a Reiki practitioner (who is alleged as a pseudoscience/quackery practitioner by us) and his/her children, and the classmates. You seem to have a very strong POV. I think I’ve said most of what I want to say. Thanks. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 20:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Tgeorgescu, if you think that 5 editors at NPOV notice board together with at least 2 to 4 more on article’s talk page with similar opinion do not constitute consensus, I don’t know what can I say. I don’t think this is the right “battleground” for the fight against me that you seem to be very interested in. You can have the last word. Thanks again. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by MrOllie
Dustfreeworld's own statements in response to this report are plenty to demonstrate the problem here. The ideas expressed above include: that Wikipedia cannot acknowledge that Reiki is pseudoscience and quackery for fear of damaging the reputation of Reiki practitioners, and that a surgical oncologist has a conflict of interest on the subject by virtue of their profession. This shows a lack of competence to edit in this topic area. I would suggest a topic ban from altmed, broadly construed. - MrOllie (talk) 21:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Dustfreeworld
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Looking at the discussion at NPOVN, the edits made by Dustfreeworld do not match any consensus I see there. It's so far off from the thrust of that discussion that is either deliberate misrepresentation or a CIR issue. I'm leaning towards a topic ban, although I'd have to see how widespread the issues are before deciding on scope. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
User:Bearcat has delete my page on Léon Vellone after I have followed all wiki rules and guidelines. Can you please ask that User:Bearcat restores my page. Thank You.