Wikimedia Forum/On disbanding Wikiquote

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On disbanding Wikiquote

I think it is time that we (Wikimedia) disband the Wikiquote project. It is currently (in various languages) a hotbed of copyright violations and other non-free content. Pages like q:Pick-up lines or q:The West Wing or q:The Simpsons are in direct contradiction to basic fair use policies and Wikimedia's mission of providing free content.

Any public domain material can and should be moved to Wikisource. All other material can be incorporated into Wikipedia (if appropriate under fair use) or simply removed from our sites altogether.

Disbanding a Wikimedia project is a bit of an odd task and so I'm posting here to hear reactions and to see what the next steps would be. --MZMcBride 00:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is probably the wrong forum for a balanced discussion of the subject, which should really be on a large and active wikiquote. That said, I encourage you to promote this page on wikiquote pub/cafe pages if you want the discussion taken seriously. +sj | help with translation |+ 06:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sounds like an okay idea at first impressions with the copivios and etc, but I'll look into it some more. This may be a tough task to just disband a website with a lot of members spread across many languages. This obviously needs some more input also, maybe we should ask someone at WikiQuote?. RedThunder 01:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm in agreement with MZ's sentiment, however, what about the legitimate uses of quotations: Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and other long-dead people (and so forth)? I'm not really sure they were meant for Wikisource. That said, input from Wikisource as well might be helpful.
    Perhaps, of course, disbanding is not the key here, but rather, a tightening of the rules at Wikiquote should be had. No doubt that the project there has allowed these things because it has been rather ignored, even in comparison to Wikinews or another of the non-pedia projects. Or because the contributors do not understand the goal of Wikimedia is to host free things rather than non-free things, which they similarly and possibly do not understand that stuff that is said on TV and such is not free... --Izno 01:49, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It wouldnt fit into wikisource to well since it is meant to hold entire works. Copyright issues can be sorted although generaly you need a very robust definition of the problem.Geni 01:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikisource could easily have a quotes page attached to our Author pages. i.e. Author:Benjamin Franklin/Quotes (the Quotes page hasnt been created on Wikisource; this is just an illustration on how it could work). I just now have created s:Category:Author subpages to illustrate other lists that have been created in the Author namespace. s:Author:Thomas Jefferson/Letters and s:Author:Barack Obama/Floor Statements are good examples.
    Wikisource would of course be more rigorous in removing unattributed quotes, and by the nature of Wikisource being primarily about sources, newcomers would be encouraged to find the full source for every quote. I dont understand why anyone would want to use a quote without the entire source, as it is likely to be used out of context.
    I am not a fan of Wikiquote, as the only content that is there which isnt suitable for Wikisource is the material that is covered by copyright, which means it is a fair-use playground (I have played there too). John Vandenberg 03:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikisource is not a place to gather collections of quotes. Of course we /could/ semantically combine all wikimedia projects into a single namespace, with different features for different sorts of data structure; and I'm not against that. Nevertheless, the desire and need for a quotations project is as old as copyright itself. +sj | help with translation |+ 06:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly said: this is an insult. (This is also the wrong venue, but let's not even get into that.) How about we try to fix the problem before determining the the project should be disbanded? Actually, there is no problem. Quoting is allowed due to fair use and we are very careful on Wikiquote with regards to how much quoting is allowed. I often see other admins hacking down at page content because it is too much and breaches copyright. Do not make such rude and outrageous suggestions when you don't know the situation. Furthermore, how could you even consider closing a project because of one user? *sigh* The logic of certain people really baffles me sometimes. Cbrown1023 talk 03:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. you don't need to get too annoyed; this is clearly the wrong way to start the discussion, but the discussion will be interesting and may help improve WQ, so we should run with it. +sj | help with translation |+
Erm... have you had the opportunity to read q:Pick-up lines lately? Some of the content is grossly, grossly offensive. And the page for q:The Simpsons can't possibly be construed in any sense to fall under fair use. All of the quotes listed there are copyrighted material that were "released" under the GFDL when submitted to Wikiquote. But there's no critical commentary, no outside sources, just a horrible amount of copyright violations. The same can be said for q:The West Wing. And your comment about one user makes no sense to me. I assume you're referring to me.... I posted this thread to look at possible future options for exploring disbanding Wikiquote. "Testing the water", if you will. It's not as though we were going to lock all the databases tomorrow morning based on this thread. And this is the wrong venue? This is the board to go to for Wikimedia matters, no? --MZMcBride 04:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The "one user" bit was in response to what brought this discussion up, the recent controversy on Wikiquote. With regards to wrong venue, the polite thing to do is to go to the project and either discuss solutions there or actually do some cleanup like Risker did (see, was that so hard?). Then if there was still a problem, you'd bring it here and this would still not be anything to do with closing it. You would need to advertise a discussion and discuss on mailing lists and with the board. Cbrown1023 talk 16:55, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would tend to agree with Cbrown1023 (talk · contribs) on this. This doesn't seem to be the correct venue, but even if it were, the issue of quoting is clearly fair use - especially if admins are on top of removing portions that are too extensive as Cbrown1023 says. Cirt (talk) 04:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Projects were started for their legitimate reasons; without a review of whether they are endeavouring to fulfill their missions towards their goals, this proposal amounts to an attempt to solve temporary, local problems with long term, drastic and global means, i.e. 用牛刀殺雞 。 If you want to pursue this idea, I would suggest that you go around all active wikiquotes and check with the communities. Hillgentleman 05:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Completely agree. I'd like to add that fair use is nice to have, but does not work in all countries. Several years ago, the French Wikiquote was discovered to be a huge copyright violation, not so much of the quotes themselves but rather of the database structure of another (commercial) company. We chose to entirely start from scratch. Following this rather drastic event, the French wikiquote was started again, but with clearer and stronger guidelines. Since then, situation seems much better. I am not saying that deleting the english wikiquote is the solution, however, better working on the mission and the rules of wikiquote might be helpful. I would start by thinking of what "educational" mean. The huge page about the Simpsons fails to appear to me "educational". Nor even informational actually. But recreational. I do not think our mission is to provide recreational activity for bored internet users :-) Anthere
  • Thankfully, that crappy pick-up lines page has been cleaned up (thanks Risker). That said, I agree with Phil Sandifer and MZMcBride. Pages devoted to holding quotes just fly in the face of free content by nature, which is what I thought we're about. Free content can be moved to Wikisource; either as a full work, or as a quotes page (I agree fully with Jayvdb about that and would be equally happy to have some PD quotes there). I think moving towards closing Wikiquotes is a good idea. Giggy 10:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with the above. I've never seen much potential of Wikiquote, and agree that the free content could easily be moved to Wikisource (or even Wikipedia). I also think this page is the best place for such discussion. Majorly talk 12:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I support this motion. Quotations arn't free, unless explicitly licenced as such by the person (or the copyright has expired). Wikiquote would be a giant fair-use project (except for some really old people) and it's hard to draw the legal line at which we start to get into copyright infringement. Firefoxman 14:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: So, this is a request to close all WikiQuotes even though only CopyVio evidence with the English one was provided. According to Anthere, a lot of work was done cleaning up the French WikiQuote. You want to close the French WikiQuote down, too? --MarsRover 16:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break

Wikiquote shouldn't be locked, closed or disbanded. But in my opinion it should not be a Wikimedia project. Move it to Wikia or another place.

Wikimedia projects are intended to provide free knowledge and information. An encyclopedia (Wikipedia), a dictionary (Wiktionary), and a bookshelf (Wikisource) are things which can be found in the households of most people who have aquired formal knowledge or want to aquire more formal knowledge. Every erudite will have these three things on or besides his or her desktop. A newspaper (Wikinews) is another typical thing found in every scholar household. These four things are key competences in information and knowledge provision. Wikiversity is like taking courses at the adult education center or like organizing a private study group. Wikibooks is like an additional bookshelf with how-to-books, manuals, guides etc. Both are useful supportive ways of information and knowledge provision.

But Wikiquote is like a single book about, well, quotes. Its some kind of useful information which enjoys popular interest, but there are dozens of possible projects which contain useful information enjoying popular interest. Think about projects about genealogy or about collecting stamps. Useful information, but Wikimedia cannot cover all useful information. It has to focus on the basic things. Quotes are not basic. It's a relatively narrow niche. Too special.

(By the way, if we have a second look at the typical accessoires of our erudite household, we may notice, that one of them is missing from the Wikimedia project list: The atlas or globus. We have no project dedicated to collecting free maps and geoinformation [well, Commons has maps, but only static and not in a coordinated system].) --::Slomox:: >< 17:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I tend to agree with MZMcBride and Giggy. Even if the content does fall under fair use, Wikimedia is supposed to be about free content, how does having a project based around fair use fit into that goal? Do any of the Wikiquote projects comply with Resolution:Licensing policy? The closest thing to an EDP I could find on the English Wikiquote is q:Wikiquote:Copyrights, which would seem to go against "Such EDPs must be minimal." The resolution is unclear though, in some cases it refers to "files" suggesting it only applies to uploaded media, but in other places it refers to "content," which would presumably mean all content. Mr.Z-man 19:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • our projects are about the free sharing of human knowledge and culture. This includes knowledge and culture which for whatever social reasons is not available under ideal licenses for remixing. It is the new work that we do which should be carefully crafted to comply with that licensing policy, so that we are a generative force for scalable expansion of shared culture -- that is not a reason to shun or disown culture that are not so available. +sj | help with translation |+ 06:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I strongly disagree do shut down wikiquoutes. We had a similar problem on the german language wikiquote, but we solved ist, the projekt ist no on good standards. I don't think it is a good job when some subprojects mad mistakes to shut all down. It is a better job to reform them and bring the the single projects to good standards or shut one single projekt down - but if all other attemps failed. --Joergens.mi 19:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Bartlett's Quotations and similar works are common household ornaments, which is precisely why Wikiquote is an appropriate Wikimedia project. We can organize things in ways that go beyond the provenance of Wikisource. I agree that there is much police work to be done, but if we are to shut down projects over the potential for copyrights to be violated, then we will have to shut down Wikipedia as well. It is beyond question that there must be vast swaths of information on Wikipedia that have been copied from printed works for which a simple internet search will not reveal the copying.

      For my part, I have been spending considerable time at Wikiquote adding quotes from a variety of books of quotations which are themselves in the public domain. It would be an absolute travesty if all of that work were wiped out. BD2412 T 23:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • If this proposal gains traction, no free content would be lost. I agree that Wikiquote is better at quotes than Wikisource could be, and the topical pages like q:Education, q:Knowledge and q:Happiness are the better part of Wikiquote: those pages wouldnt naturally fit within Wikisource, however we do have s:Wikisource:Education; we could add notable quotes onto that page. So, I can see limited value in Wikiquote as a distinct resource/project, and the potential is there, and is being realised by several users such as yourself who work very hard in creating well sourced quotes. However, for the large part the contributions to the project would be better to be either: 1) not accepted, 2) on Wikisource, 3) on Wikipedia, or 4) a "Quotations Wikibook" could be created. BD2412 it would be helpful for you to show us some of the pages that you think make the project worth keeping as a distinct project. John Vandenberg 23:50, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also tend to agree to the proposal. There seems to be a big copyright problem with most of these projects. But if Wikiquote is shut down, I think it is necessary to keep all non-copyvio content and move it to the respective Wikisources. --Thogo (talk) 19:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As administrator of the German Wikiquote project I agree with the impression that en Wikiquote is full of copyvios (without any fair use rationale). I have suggested serveral times changes but without success. If you will shut down a Wikiquote project please choose en Wikiquote. I strongly disagree with the opinion that all Wikiquote projects doesn't have educational content worth to keep. Attaching WQ to WS would'nt be a good idea. German Wikiquote has now strict rules: from authors who are not 70 years dead we only accept 5-10 quotes. We don't accept any new quote without a serious source. There is a lot of quotation collections in the web but most of them doesn't have sources like German Wikiquote. In this direction I see the future of all Wikiquote projects. We cannot tolerate the massive copyvios in en Wikiquote anymore but shutting also down the German project which has high quality standards would be nonsense --Histo 19:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this practical and useful contribution. Sourcing is certainly one way to improve and solidify the practices of all language WQs. +sj | help with translation |+
@Thogo: If you are able to keep all non-copyvio content and move it to Wikisources, then you are also able to simply keep the non-copyvio content in Wikiquote. Guido den Broeder 20:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some of these issues have already been raised very recently on en Wikiquote.[1][2] It is a small project which tends to move slowly, but a responsible one and I'm sure admins and editors will take the necessary steps to fix problems. I agree it needs to be stricter and cleaned up, but there's no reason why this can't be done to make it viable. Tyrenius 21:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seit Anfang des Jahres werden auf de-wq sämtliche Urheberrechtsverletzungen entfernt, über 1000 Artikel wurden gelöscht, fehlende Quellenangaben werden nachrecherchiert. Bei Autoren, deren Werken geschützt sind werden maximal 5-10 kurze Zitate mit genauer Quellenangabe zugelassen, letzteres gilt auch für jedes neueingestellte Zitat. Ich halte es für unerlässlich, sich die einzelnen Projekte anzusehen und nicht diejenigen mitzubestrafen, die sich an die Gesetze halten. --Paulis 21:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC) (admin de-wq)[reply]

ACK. Paulis says: One has to check each project and not to punish projects which are according the law. Since begin of 2008 all copyvios in de.WQ were removed, 1000+ pages were deleted. --Histo 22:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A concerted effort should be made to fix the project before a proposal for shutting it down is discussed. Wikipedia contains many of these same fair-use quotations, so if absolute adherence to free content is the standard we'd have to shut down that project as well. It would be a simple thing to go through WQ and delete unsourced content. Decisions on what sourced content to keep will be harder but no harder than similar decisions made every day on other projects. Will Beback 23:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, dewq is a wonderful exemption which is much appreciated, but why shouldn't the content go to Wikisource? Is it really necessary to have two different projects that provide original texts (be it whole texts/poems/stories or citations)? --Thogo (talk) 09:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting from English Wikiquote Village pump

This is not correct; free content (which Wikiquote is by way of being hosted by the WMF) should be able to be published commercially in book format without any copyright lawyers beating down the doors of the publisher. At the very least, English Wikiquote needs to put in place an EDP that is approved by the WMF. John Vandenberg 00:02, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, you can't have a fair use claim except for a specific use. For example, Commons can't have fair use images (even if it wanted to) because we don't use them in articles (or whatever) - you can't claim fair use when compiling a stock media repository any more than when compiling a stock quotation repository. What that means for Wikiquote, I'm not sure. Perhaps only quotations which have fallen into the public domain may be acceptable, as on dewq?  — Mike.lifeguard | talk 00:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 2

Wikiquote does have a fair use problem, but it's not from lack of trying. Most of the regulars - myself included - have been trying to cut down on copyrighted material. Sceptre 01:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiquote needs to have the freedom and autonomy to solve its own problems without interference by copyright paranoiacs who do not participate in that project. It is up to the participants there to establish standards to judge when claims to fair use have become excessive; the law does not make the limits very clear. It is certainly correct to say that Wikiquote would have greater leeway than a commercial enterprise; that directly addresses one of the four fair use factors outlined in the law. Whether that in fact helps the situation is debatable. Nevertheless, fair use, when a passage properly fits that classification is not a copyright infringement. Without fair use Wikiquote or any other compendium of quotations would be laughable by virtue of carrying only quotations that are more than 70 years old. Some level of fair use in publications of that type is a generally accepted practice. I would be interested to know if there have been any legal cases involving that kind of publication; these could be a useful guide. Eclecticology 02:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The US law does allow quite a bit, but Resolution:Licensing policy does not:

Such EDPs must be minimal. Their use, with limited exception, should be to illustrate historically significant events, to include identifying protected works such as logos, or to complement (within narrow limits) articles about copyrighted contemporary works. An EDP may not allow material where we can reasonably expect someone to upload a freely licensed file for the same purpose, such as is the case for almost all portraits of living notable individuals. Any content used under an EDP must be replaced with a freely licensed work whenever one is available which will serve the same educational purpose.

How does a page full of non-free quotes from a television show or a book meet that? Mr.Z-man 03:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That policy statement should be updated to appropriately allow for quotations and other short excerpts which are noteworthy in their pith without context. There is generally no 'replacement' of quotes with 'freely licensed quotes', so that clause itself does not apply; often the perfection of the quote is what makes it so memorable and timeless. +sj | help with translation |+ 06:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is true to say that some fair use is acceptable in compendium of quotes, however if I was to publish a book of quotations of modern day people, it would be expected that I obtain permission from those people, or their estate, where possible and feasible. Not doing so at all would result in legal battles that my publisher would not be willing to enduring, and would tell me to sod off. Has Wikiquote obtained any permission from any of the quoted people? If Wikiquote cant be published for profit, it is not free content.
Also you don't touch on the educational value of the wikiquotes project, nor the structural benefit of having a compendium of quotes as a distinct project rather than within wikibooks. John Vandenberg 03:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think Wikiquote needs some kind of notability guideline - only quotes that people actually quote should be included, any funny line from a given film is not worthy of inclusion in a collection of quotes regardless of copyright. What would be a useful project is a site where people can go having heard a quote and find out a) if the person really said it b) what exactly it was they said and c) who it was that said it (some clever search algorithms may be needed if (b) and (c) are being asked at the same time). --Tango 05:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed -- quotes that have obvious value should certainly be included; they have provided inspiration and guidance in every generation. Quotes should have both notability and utility guidelines -- a useless quote that is verifiably said by a famous person, but never used, is not a great quote. +sj | help with translation |+
It is already discussed on the English project and consumed as q:Wikiquote:Quotability. The problem here is that more than half edits come from anons who don't notice Wikiquote is a non-profit project under clear policy but confuse it with sort of fansite.
Also I would like you to remind you cannot say roughly on Wikiquote. The details of policy is vary from language to language. If you talk about Wikiquote , please clarify which language version you are talking on then. And if you don't know anything about its policy, please give a look on its project pages before saying Wikiquote needs so-and-so. It doesn't make a sense to demand to create what it has already. --Aphaia 06:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • My take on the issue:
    • Copyright is not an important issue here. Any argument for something as major as shutting down Wikiquote should work even if Wikiquote adopted an editorial policy such as 'no non-public domain quotes'. Copyvios can be dealt with, and have been, and I have never held with 'copyright paranoia' being a guiding principle. Copyright's so messed up that nobody has clean hands, and striving for clean hands can easily swing right into fighting-monsters-and-becoming-a-monster territory (or more proverbially, the cure being worse than the disease).
    • Perhaps the pickup lines and Simpsons articles are putrid cessholes which deserve to be burned with fire. I'll bet the English Wikipedia has deleted orders of magnitude bad more articles at CSD alone than exist in all the Wikiquotes, though...
    • Wikiquote does have clear value to me. It integrates well. I read a Wikipedia article on Alexander Pope, say, and I go to Wikiquote and read excerpts from his poetry and writings. These link to full editions of the original work on Wikisource which I may or may not consult for context. From there I might check out Commons to see if any of the famous quotes appear on monuments or something, and perhaps I wander back to Wikiquote...
  • Do I do a lot of work on Wikiquote, do I know much about it, do I know people who are Wikiquotians? No, not really. But I still appreciate it, especially after I try some of the other quote pages floating around. Just today I had cause to appreciate the nice Ludwig Wittgenstein quotes page after I had tried some other online sites of much lower quality. --Gwern 06:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Two quite different sorts of text. Secondly, two quite different sorts of copyright aproach (PD in Wikisource, fair use or something that fits in Wikiquote). And thirdly, and important: when osmebody says that Wikisource users could better keep attention on this, so it is on the other hand wrong: I am not sure if every (small) Wikisource subdomain could and would solve the problems arising from the fact that suddenly there are dozens of new users editing the quotes, not having sufficiently experience with editing Wikisource and respecting the copyright rules there. If you join the two projects so you join also the two different communities. I am not sure if this works. -jkb- (cs.source) 07:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
By the way. When there is a proposal to disband Wikiquote as project so I would expect arguments that all Wikiquotes are that bad. In my opinion and in my experience this is not true - many domains are very carefully in the question of copyright. -jkb- (cs.source) 07:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could someone briefly explain to me how Wikiquote's content meets fair use laws? I'm currently of the opinion that if the project is to be kept (admittedly, good work has been done), limiting it to PD would be the best way to go. I'm happy to be proven wrong and challenge someone to do so. Giggy 07:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Whether content meets fair use criteria is not something that one determines in one mass across the entire project. Each quote needs to be separately evaluated. Quotes from The Simpsons may very well be excessive, but that too needs to be evaluated in its own right without extrapolating those determinations into something greater than the facts will besr. If you want to evaluate a particular text consider it in the light of the four factors in the law and make a conclusion based on a balance of probabilities. Following strict PD would lead to a compendium of obsolescence; how could that possibly be the best way? Eclecticology 09:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because some cause trouble, all have to be erased? We wont deal with the cause of an effect, we simply erase the whole project? Of course, who realy needs a quotation collection? Simply trash it for gods sake! Das deutsche Wikiquote Projekt widmet sich mit Erfolg seit langer Zeit einer copyright-violation-free Zitatesammlung. Das zeigt, dass man sehrwohl das Problem mit Urheberrechtsverletzungen lösen kann, auch wenn dies nicht immer so einfach ist - eines ist sicher man muss nicht einfach das Projekt auflösen. Wikiquote.de successfuly attend to an copyright-violation-free quotation collection - of course, not all is done yet. This shows that its possible to create a wiki-based and copyright-violation-free quotation collection. Überhaupt ist eine Zitatesammlung nicht nur für sich genommen eine großartige Sache, sie ist ebenfalls eine außerordentlich tolle Ergänzung für Wikipedia. The idea to merge wikiquote with wikisource is´nt good at all. A cobbler should stick to his last. Both projects have their own goals and purposes, and they also add something unique and important to Wikipedia. de:q:Benutzer:Tets --84.113.52.244 08:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


This proposal is too poorly written to take serious. As said on the above, German Wikiquote has a strict rule about this so it is not their matter. French Wikiquote has a strict citation rule also. And please note still German Wikiquote accepts fair use to some extent. Japanese Wikiquote goes far: it accepts only PD quotes. There would be much more other Wikiquotes which have strict control for copyrighted materials. Disbanding the whole Wikiquote makes no sense, even if one project - English Wikiquote is not controllable as claimed. And in the truth, it isn't; English Wikiquote community has established citation criteria as q:Wikiquote:Quotability and not welcome anything written just because it was written somewhere else. There are already some attempt of cleaning massive potential copyvios. The community has tries to limit the quotes within the legitimate scope of fair-use, and cut down articles sometimes. It is a problem for years since we continuously accept newcomers who don't pay attention to our norms and policy, but if you think English Wikiquote does nothing, you are simply misled. And again, if you think English Wikiquote is in a problem, please address your problem properly, not drag all other language Wikiquote projects to your playground. It is totally nonsense to disband, for example, Japanese Wikiquote due to copyvio, since its all contents should be taken from PD materials. --Aphaia 08:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Completely disagree with any proposal to disband this valuable project.
  1. While current quotes may hit copyright problems, there is a vast source of historic quotes, as witness many many paper encyclopedias of quotations. So a legitimate encyclopedia on quotations is completely feasible.
  2. Cleanup is no reason to disband a viable project; I'm not familiar with wikiquote but I am sure it gets unusable posts exactly as enwiki gets unusable copyvio article texts. Cleanup and take measures is the way to handle these. Only if vast and unfixable might one do more, and given the validity of the project and its usefulness, mirrored in many paper quotations encyclopedias, I cannot see that even remotely likely.
  3. Most quotes are small snips of text and will not be a problem within a reasonable reading of copyright/fair use law. (If they are and some articles are entire chunks of the script or text, then see above and it's more than likely fixable.)
  4. Permission to quote is quite optional. You don't legally need permission to say "X said Y", or "in book W, X said Y", or even "According to W, X said Y". (To underline this, English Wikipedia contains some 2.5 million articles many of which quote or cite using that structure. Just because this is an encyclopedia of quotations rather than of <wider topics>, doesn't change that. It is either okay to, or not.)
Thoughts. FT2 (Talk | email) 09:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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