Talk:Wikimedia thematic organizations

RfC on Future of Education Program as a Thematic Organization

An RfC has been initiated RfC by the Wikipedia Education Working group on the future of the US Canada Education program as a Thematic Organization. --Mike Cline (talk) 13:32, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Mike! Good luck with the RfC. If you have any questions about Thematic organisations or the recognition process, please get in touch with AffCom, we are happy to help. –Bence (talk) 20:44, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Description

This is the first page people find when they are looking for "thematic organization", so it should explain what a thematic organization is. Is it possible to include the resolution's description "Incorporated independent non-profits representing the Wikimedia movement and supporting work focused on a specific theme, topic, subject or issue within or across countries and regions. Thematic or focused organizations use a name clearly linking them to Wikimedia and are granted use of Wikimedia trademarks for their work, publicity and fundraising." or something similar to let people know more about requirements (incorporation, non-profit) and values (trademark, fundraising)? Alice Wiegand (talk) 11:15, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I might have missed this comment, but part of it was fortunately already included in the page, and I added a bit more detail. I expect this page will develop like the Wikimedia Chapters page with individuals being bold in editing it, it is not so much set in stone as the pages outlining requirements, etc. --Bence (talk) 20:42, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that helps a lot. --Alice Wiegand (talk) 20:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Naming

Thoughts regarding the naming of thematic organizations

from Geoff Brigham, WMF General Counsel

As the Affiliations Committee prepares to approve the first new movement entities, I was hoping that I could share with you some of my thoughts as WMF General Counsel on the issue.

As I believe all know, any groups that wish to use “Wikimedia” trademarks in their names must formally request a license to do so from WMF, and the WMF Legal Department often advises on such name proposals. The Committee will help Thematic Organizations to navigate the process of choosing an appropriate name, and upon the Committee’s recommendation, that name will go to WMF for final approval. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Step-by-step_Thematic_Organization_creation_guide#Agree_on_a_name.

In that context, at WMF Legal, we would like to encourage that Thematic Organizations consider adopting uniquely descriptive names and avoid incorporating the “Wikimedia” name as a universal appellation to describe their organization. Rather, we suggest that Thematic Organizations choose a name which specifically describes their relationship to the movement, such as “Editors on Wikisource for Natural Sciences,” “Wikipedia Editors of the Rod of Asclepius” or “Friends of Indigenous Languages at Wikipedia.” Subtitles such as “Wiki Loves ...” or “Wikipedians interested in …” also may serve to clearly link the groups to the Wikimedia movement.

We propose that this approach is in the overall best interests of the Wikimedia movement for a number of reasons, including the following:

• Avoidance of Confusion -- This approach helps to protect the Organizations from legal actions which are actually intended to target the Foundation. In the past, due to confusion by plaintiffs, Chapters have mistakenly received legal complaints and have been forced to defend (successfully) against costly lawsuits for content on Wikimedia projects in their languages. The media has had similar difficulty differentiating between the Wikimedia Foundation, Chapters, and the Wikimedia movement in general. Thematic Organizations may be at even greater, albeit unjustified, risk for misguided legal confusion, as they may be targeted unfairly for a variety of content within their subject areas across languages. (Of course, WMF, not the Organizations, hosts that content.) We believe that this naming policy helps to avoid the potential (and wrong) misperception that Thematic Organizations are somehow legally responsible for the content that appears on a Wikimedia project.

• Avoidance of Exclusivity -- This approach helps to avoid the appearance that a particular Thematic Organization exclusively represents the entire topic area throughout the movement. Thematic organizations may overlap with another group (e.g., History vs. Scandinavian History vs. Military History), and a user is not obligated to join a Thematic Organization if she or he wants to edit an article within that group's focus area. I suggest that we encourage names that allow a multiplicity of groups to pursue our shared mission.

• Accuracy -- A descriptive name may more accurately reflect the focus of a Thematic Organization. Using “Wikimedia” in the name may lead to confusion when multiple Thematic Organizations wish to focus on the same topic area within different Wikimedia projects (e.g. “Wikipedia Editors for Military History” vs. “WikiSource Editors for Military History”).

• Avoidance of Brand Dilution -- The Wikimedia brand is valuable, and represents the tremendous amount of hard work and goodwill created by Wikimedia community. Therefore, we should fully and carefully consider the nature and purpose of each group that operates under the “Wikimedia” trademark on a case-by-case basis.

Please keep in mind that this is a working proposal for naming guidelines. Going forward, we aim to post updated visual identity guidelines (i.e. logos) that take into consideration the naming criteria for Thematic Organizations. We are also working to finalize the text of the agreements between Thematic Organizations and WMF, and to formalize the rules for incorporating Thematic Organizations into the WMF Board selection process.

Many thanks,

Geoffbrigham (talk) 19:34, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

As I understand it, the role of AffCom as filter is to avoid brand dilution and confusion - they seem to have done a good job so far with Chapters, and I trust them to do so here. As to accuracy, the idea behind Th.Orgs as I understand it from the MR process is precisely not to have multiple orgs focusing on the same topic across projects. Each th.org is expected to cover a topic or theme for all geographic regions and projects. Just as a chapter is expected to support all projects and not just (say) Commons. –SJ talk  19:32, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi SJ. FWIW, that's different from what I thought/assumed. I'm trying to remember now the potential thematic org notions I've heard discussed -- e.g., the Catalan group, a group running Global Ed projects internationally, a GLAM group. I don't know if in reality the Catalan group supports all projects: it may. Global Ed is specifically Wikipedia-focused. I assume (but am not certain) that most GLAM work is Wikipedia-focused. So I don't know. I never assumed thematic orgs would necessarily support all projects, or would or should be required to. Sue Gardner (talk) 19:53, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll let Galio, Affcom's resident expert on Movement Roles expand on this a bit if he wants, but in my understanding the thematic org framework is very flexible (an organization might support a topic across all projects/subset of the projects in a given country/region/worldwide), for example the prototypical example of Amical supports the development of Catalan language content on all projects (as feasible) operating mostly in the defined regions of Catalonia in Spain, France and Italy; while the group behind Wikimedia Medicine is aiming for a worldwide organization getting content on medicine on at least Wikipedia and Commons; Wikivoyage e.V. is aiming to be worldwide but focusing only on Wikivoyage. It is indeed more unlikely that we would have separate organizations for the same topic on different projects in the same area (e.g. one Stroopwafel on Wikipedia group, and a second Wiki Loves Stroopwafel on Commons).

Somewhere along the way the idea that these thematic organizations are non-exclusive has found itself into the framework as a safety mechanism. Without this a localized group having a prior global claim on a topic could inadvertently exclude the participation of volunteers from other parts of the world (at least initially, setting up a truly worldwide organization is difficult); on the other hand I imagine it would take a bit of convincing and careful thought before Affcom were to approve a second thematic organization in the same topic acting in the same geographic area. In time, I expect,the worldwide thorgs will also develop a network of their own chapters...

The downside of this flexibility is that coming up with a general template for naming thematic organizations is difficult, especially with added proposed restrictions on the use of "Wikimedia" (which is the only good word to describe multi-project work).

I agree with SJ that once clear guidelines, or principles are agreed to Affcom will be able to implement them. (A bit of discussion is currently ongoing on this at the moment with AffCom and Geoff.) –Bence (talk) 20:19, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

This proposal comes as surprise to me. So far I thought the very idea about the affiliation process was to establish entities that are supposed to be identified with the wikimedia foundation and movement and entitled to use the trademarks, the name and the Wikiball. The groups might need to be able to present themselves as rightful representatives of the movement when talking to GLAMs or other partners. I carry business cards courtesy of WMDE with my name, contact information including an e-mail-address at the "wikipedia.de" domain and the Wikiball. The cards are incredibly helpful to establish rapport with media, cultural institutions, etc. But how about user groups without an established chapter? They need the official recognition and the trademarks. And hat might be the other reasons to become a user group than the outward symbols of recognition as part of the movement? Just the option to apply for grants at the Foundation? Don't you think removing the name ans logo would invalidate most or even all of the purpose of applying to become recognized as a user group? --h-stt !? 10:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC) (contact person for the application process of Wikimedia Munich User Group)

The Amical group's current thoughts on the matter are at [1]. –Bence (talk) 10:26, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Media organizations will still get it wrong even if we use the term "wiki". For example Wiki-leaks is often mistaken for Wikipedia. There are a few reasons to create officially incorporated organizations. One is to have a corporate platform from which to interact with other corporations. The second is to have a financial organization independent from the persons involved. As most / all of the members are editors of the Wikimedia family of site I would consider not using Wiki or Wikimedia an obfuscation of our purpose. What we want are names that show a clear affiliations with the Wikimedia Community of which these organization are a part. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:48, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I second Doc James' concern. I want to be able to represent myself as a member of the Wikipedia community (or is it wiki community?) and I do not want anyone to think that I am representing the Wikimedia Foundation. I can use any names; I just want guidance. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello Geoff, I come from the talk page about Wikimedia user groups, but I think that the same is valid. About your 4 points:

• Avoidance of Confusion: Does a different name really protect the thorgs, would plaintiffs not figure out anyway that the thorgs might be good victims to sue? And how about the national chapters, should they be renamed?
• Avoidance of Exclusivity: The thorg indeed should give the impression of exclusivity, at least with regard to the 'real life' world. A national medical association is supposed to approach the (official) 'Wikimedia Medicine', because it is recognized by the WMF, and not a 'Wiki Doctors' Club' or 'Physicians for the Free Encyclopedia' (groups of persons maybe totally nice but not officially recognized).
• Accuracy: A thorg is supposed to be as inclusive as possible with regard to the Wikimedia projects, not to be only about Wikipedia but also about Wikimedia Commons, Wikisource etc. By the way, I always strongly recommend not to go public under a name such as 'wiki' because that can be anything (Wikileaks, for example).
• Avoidance of Brand Dilution: Of course not 'anybody' should receive the right to operate under the name 'Wikimedia', but those who did should exactly appear under that very name and not a different one. An outsider must see immediately that the thorg is the official Wikimedia thorg, and not only from the small letters.

For the sake of clarity, thorgs and WUGs (thematic organizations and Wikimedia user groups) should operate under the name 'Wikimedia' which means that the WMF must be careful whom to allow that. indeed. We already have so much confusion about the Wikimedia world (Wikileaks, I didn't count how often journalists believed that it belongs to us). Ziko (talk) 21:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes agree with Ziko. The community operates as the Wikimedia Community and it is this community that has curated all the content we host. Thus this community should have the right to be involved with who can use this name in an official capacity and represent them. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:06, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Should thematic chapters generally avoid the terms "Wikipedia" and "Wikimedia"?

Would it be better for organizations to start using the term "wiki" in all places in which the terms "Wikimedia" or "Wikipedia" are often used? Should "wiki-editors" (not Wikipedians) edit "wiki" (not Wikipedia) at "wiki-meetups" (not Wikipedia meetups) organized by "Wiki organizations" (not Wikipedia/Wikimedia organizations)? Has anyone at the WMF written best practices for how it prefers its brands discussed in public? Thematic chapters will, I expect, do a lot of talking and publishing and if this is a concern then perhaps it would be good to articulate best practices. I have always used the terms "Wikipedia" and "Wikimedia" thinking that this was best, but now I am wondering if this has always been troublesome for the foundation, the community, and the external public. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:07, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Just leaving a brief comment here as I don't know too much about the history and background of the naming of the thematic organisations, but I do believe that generally we try to avoid referring to everything as just "wiki" as you suggest. This is because it usually ends up with people linking the phrase "wiki" with Wikipedia, which is not something that we want to do. It is the largest wiki, but then these associations cause confusion especially when WikiLeaks first caught media attention - OTRS was flooded with emails from users who mistakenly believed that it was associated with Wikipedia. Thehelpfulone 17:42, 23 November 2012 (UTC)