Talk:Toytoy's proposed policy for wiki closure and Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgments About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are in Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They Are Deletionists: Difference between pages

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__NOTOC__
== English Wikipedia ==
[[Category:Wikipedian associations]]
[[Image:AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD.png|AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD|Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgements About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are In Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They are Deletionist]]


I, [[w:User:Ashibaka|Ashibaka]], hereby establish the '''Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgements About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are In Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They are Deletionist''' ('''AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD''').
[[:en]] probably would have failed at least three of these tests (market and both usability) early on. Perhaps a test taking into account the number of literate speakers with Internet access should be added. [[User:151.196.235.226|151.196.235.226]] 07:12, 24 July 2005 (UTC)


The motto of the AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD is ''Est generatim difficilis judicare meritum quisdam rei includato in encyclopaedia cum non certe ratione scire qui capit populum, sed aliqui rei nihilominus non sunt apti prae encyclopaedia'', which translates to, "it is generally difficult to judge the worthiness of a particular topic for inclusion in an encyclopedia considering that there is no certain way to know what interests people, but some topics nevertheless are not fit for an encyclopedia." This motto reflects the desire of these Wikipedians to be reluctant, but not entirely unwilling, to remove articles from Wikipedia.
== Strong dissent ==
<div style="float: right; margin: 1.5em; style: white-space: nowrap; font-family: 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-style: italic">
Now for ten years we've been on our own<br>
And moss grows fat on a rolling stone<br>
But that's not how it used to be
{{right|&mdash; [[w:Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst|Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst]]}}
</div>
Membership is not limited. All you have to do to become a member is list your name here. If you feel like expressing your wishy-washy feelings, you can do so at [[/Blurbs]].


The current General Secretary is [[w:Front Page|Everyone]]. All members '''are''' the Secretary, so nominations are unnecessary. Matters that concern the AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD as a group necessitate a vote.
I dissent strongly from this proposal.


==Goals==
Even small Wikipedias:
I have always felt that these should be everyone's common goals:
# may be good sources of articles for translation.
# may be the seed from which something more substantial later grows.
# link well into the rest of Wikipedia and form a piece of the larger whole.


# Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Also, a wiki with a small number of contributors, but where that small number are good at what they do, may be excellent. The Catalan Wikipedia is a case in point: I would say from experience using it that its standards are generally quite high, that its coverage of specifically Catalan subjects much exceeds what we have in other languages (including Spanish, English, and French), that most of this would probably never have been written if we did not welcome articles in Catalan, and that most of what we have about Catalunya in the English-language Wikipedia is due to a number of us making translations from the Catalan Wikipedia.
# Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
# Love thy neighbour as thyself.


==Template==
Similarly, the few individuals writing in the Asturian-language Wikipedia have written some very good articles on Asturias that have been translated into other languages.
Keeping up to date with the latest news in the Wikipolitical world, I have discovered the existence of [[w:Template:Inclusionist]]. I would not want our movement to be left out of this new and exciting realm of template-making, so therefore I have created [[w:Template:AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD]]. I encourage, but do not command, our members to use this interesting-looking template on their user pages. Good day! [[User:Ashibaka|Ashibaka]] 19:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
:The template has been speedy-deleted without reason! I encourage members of this society to comment at [[w:Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion]]. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 20:11, 13 September 2005 (UTC)


==Members==
Many of us who are multilingual think of Wikipedia as one big system with articles in many languages, not as a group of separate monolingual encyclopedias. It may be important to post, prominently, a language-specific disclaimer based in part on [[en:Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia]] that gives further warnings of the pitfalls of a particular language-specific Wikipedia.
* Oh look, here's my name again. [[User:Ashibaka|Ashibaka]] 00:55, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
* [[User:Eequor|&#8227;<font size="+1">&#5339;&#5505;</font>]]<font id="venus">[[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|&#9792;]]</font>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:User talk:Eequor}} <font size="+1">&#5200;</font>] 03:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC) - hahaha...
*[[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken'''S'''egue]] 01:58, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)- why not?
*[[User:Gtrmp|Gtrmp]] 02:20, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*Thanks Ashibaka for providing a "middle ground". [[User:Objective Researcher|Objective Researcher]] 05:11, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*Who cares what the goals are, the name alone is cool enough to make me want to join! [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] 16:51, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*I disagree with proposed "common goals." [[User:Adraeus|Adraeus]] 13:47, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*I support my local AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD representative. Plus, I'm now a member of everything but the Deletionist and Apathetic associations, so I'm bound to get lots of new friends. Wheee! (^_^) [[User:JRM|JRM]] 14:47, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*Exactly what I'm looking for. [[en:User:Evil Monkey|Evil Monkey]]
* --[[User:CiaraBeth|CiaraBeth]] 17:52, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC) Yay! Finally found somewhere I fit.
*I think I also signed up to be an inclusionist, or at least considered it. I hope that doesn't disqualify me. [[User:TUF-KAT|TUF-KAT]] 22:06, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
* [[User:Tatteredpaper|Tatteredpaper]] | (<sup>[[User talk:Tatteredpaper|talk]]</sup>) Very Nice.
* I don't join nothing -- count me in! -[[User:Rholton|Rholton]] 05:55, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
* Any club have me as a member, etc... --[[en:User:Brockert|Ben Brockert]] [[en:User talk:Brockert|&lt;]] 04:16, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
* Anything this wishy-washy is inherently worthy. [[User:IMeowbot|IMeowbot]] 18:01, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
* Yup. [[en:User:Oven Fresh|Oven Fresh]] 21:01, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:Mikez|\Mike]] 20:20, 2005 Jan 25 (UTC) yeah, this is so ''me'' :)
* Definitely me. Too deletionist to be an inclusionist. Too inclusionist to be a deletionist. Too insane to be sane. --[[en:User:Deathphoenix|Death]][[en:User_talk:Deathphoenix|'''phoenix''']] 06:25, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
*Exactly my feelings! [[en:User:Simonfairfax|Simonfairfax]] 19:30, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
*[[w:en:List of Latin phrases#A|Aurea mediocritas]]. &#8212;[[User:Mirv|Charles]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;P.]] 19:26, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
*This looks like it includes my general POV about stuff. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]] 02:17, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC
* Ah, a club for me! [[User:Bratsche|Bratsche]] 03:14, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
* Ah, yes. This firs me just fine. Can I get the motto on a bumper sticker? &ndash; [[User:ClockworkSoul|Clockwork]][[User talk:ClockworkSoul|'''Soul''']] 18:06, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
* The partylike wrangling over deletionism scares me. Really, who bloody cares if someone's a deletionist or an inclusionist. [[User:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>&rarr;I&ntilde;g&oacute;lemo&larr;</font>]] [[en:User_talk:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue><sup>talk<sup></font>]] 07:42, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
* And to think it took me almost half a year to find this...and it's another edit...hooray.
[[User:217.9.49.2|217.9.49.2]] 13:04, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:Boffy b|Boffy b]] 21:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) For great justice!
*After a great deal of consideration, I feel this association is the place for me. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 10:21, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
*As above. [[User:TAS|TAS]] 10:49, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
*Ditto. [[w:en:User:E+MC^2|E=MC^2]] [[w:en:User_talk:E=MC^2|E=MC^2]]
*Sounds good to me. [[User:Revived|Revived]] 16:59, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
*How can I pass up membership in a group with such a great name? It even describes my thinking somewhat. [[User:DaveTheRed|DaveTheRed]] 01:26, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This is weird and odd. I don't really join but half-way join. [[User:24.33.244.93|24.33.244.93]] 04:44, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*Salvete, amici. Kia ora. [[User:Robin Patterson|Robin Patterson]] 00:46, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
*Wow. This is just, like, the ''cool''est, like, club, ever! [[en:User:Smoddy|Smoddy]]. 13:57, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:Francescob|Francesco]]
*[[User:TacoDeposit|Taco Deposit]]
*--[[User:Jondel|Jondel]] 09:02, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)-
*huzzah! --[[User:65.34.48.44|65.34.48.44]] 14:28, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
*Longwinded names strike such a chord in me. ''*tear*'' --[[User:Addesso|Addesso]] 21:36, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:DoubleBlue|<font color="darkblue">'''Double'''</font><font color="blue">Blue</font>]] ([[User talk:DoubleBlue|Talk)]] 21:29, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:*Kat*|*Kat*]] Hey, now this is my sort of association.
* [[User:Node ue|Node ue]] 18:17, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] 02:52, 20 May 2005 (UTC) Not only true, but I adore the name.
* [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus]] 18:12, 21 May 2005 (UTC) Not only are things in the world, including Wikipedia, not in black and white, but things in "black and white" aren't in black and white.
*[[en:User:Hermione1980|Hermione1980]] Now, what's that acronym again? 21:35, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
*Wikipedia has enough space to accomondate many non-notable articles. However, I would turn away from any articles featuring corpses - [[User:Simfish|Simfish]] 01:05, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*[[en:User:Proto|Proto]] Huzzah! AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD for life. 11:43, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*You know what you doing. [[User:Pufferfish101|Pufferfish101]] 02:14, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*Now to memorize the acronym--[[User:64.114.17.185|64.114.17.185]] 23:03, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*I agree....[[User:218.214.78.117|218.214.78.117]] 10:01, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
* I love the name of this group. It fits me perfectly. [[User:Mred64|Mred64]] 15:47, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*Me too! --<b><font style="background: black" color=white>[[en:User:Phroziac|Phroziac]]</font> ([[en:User talk:Phroziac|talk]])</b> 15:30, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:Laurascudder|Laura Scudder]] | [[User talk:Laurascudder|Talk]] 21:30, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yay, a club for me! [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 19:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*This is by far the stupidest, most useless waste of space on all of Wikimedia and I hereby sign up as a member. [[User:Midster|Midster]] 00:27, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
**Can't be any worse then most real political parties :D --<b><font style="background: black" color=white>[[User:Phroziac|Phroziac]]</font> ([[User talk:Phroziac|talk]])</b> 18:00, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
* :-) [[User:Dan100|Dan100]] 08:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
* [[user:zanimum]]
* [[User:Bcat|Bcat]] ([[User talk:Bcat|talk]]) 17:19, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
* ''Excellent'' point of view. You might as well have read my mind. [[User:212.205.219.47|212.205.219.47]] 09:39, 1 Jul 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]]
* This is my kind of POV. [[User:Who|<font color=#FF0033><></font>Who]][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:Who<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>] 09:09, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:TheMidnighters|TheMidnighters]] 18:27, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:12.135.45.84|12.135.45.84]] says, "uh huh. that's right."


* [[User:Ilyanep|<font color="grey">Il&gamma;&alpha;&eta;&epsilon;&rho;</font>]] [[User talk:Ilyanep|<font color="#333333">(T&alpha;l&kappa;)</font>]] I join but cannot be held accountable on account of clinical insanity.
If someone wishes to carry on dialogue about this with me, please get hold of me at [[en:User talk:Jmabel]], because I do not monitor Meta. -- [[en:User:Jmabel|Jmabel]]
* [[User:Get It|Get_It]] 02:40, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:The wub|The wub]] 09:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC) yay! \(^o^)/
* Yay for the name - short and succinct, just as I like it... -- [[User:Marcika|Marcika]] 15:39, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
* If the title of this association means what I think it means, and I am what I think I am, and what I think it means is what I think I am, then by all means I am what I think it means. --[[w:en:User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 03:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
* I'm already a member at AIW but I'm making a point out of joining this as well. --[[User:AceMyth|AceMyth]] 22:33, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
* I think this could fall under the category of the ''Use common sense'' guideline. Anyway, with a name like this, I have to join. [[w:User:JesseW]] 06:32, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
* I like the name, an acronym that doesn't spell a word! I'm definently joining this!. -- [[User:65.33.92.91|65.33.92.91]] 17:59, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
*Aaah, noncommittal affiliation with discretionary individuals &mdash;[[w:User:Ringbang|Ringbang]] 20:38, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
*Those of us who find it hard to make hard decisions have a party now. I shed a tear for it. [[User:198.60.98.125|198.60.98.125]] 18:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
*This is exactly me. AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD doesn't sound bad, either. [[w:en:User:SFGiants|SFGiants]] 23:10, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
*Huzzah! [[User:Teentitans]] i need to start logging in...
*Ah, suitably vague... Yes! [[User:Flowerparty|Flowerparty]] 14:41, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:Blockinblox|Blockinblox]] 15:47, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:Clavicula Pontifex|Clavicula Pontifex]] 21:12, 15 march -6000 (UTC). Now now... there are no absolute premises upon which a post can be deemed unworthy. At the very foundation of any utterance is meaning that tallies not with an objective reality outside ourselves; instead these are mere instruments to satisfy human needs, categories we impose on reality to make it practical to our subjective existence. This is why the "Some Particularly Bad Articles" statement can only be rooted in a subjective position, with a corresponding opposite position that is not more nor less valid; One can therefore not trump the other in an objectively justifiable manner... This is why I call for truncation of the association's title to a mere "Editing Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgements About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article".
* [[User:LoopZilla|LoopZilla]] 20:23, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:Sjakkalle|Sjakkalle]] 13:17, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
*[[User:68.104.69.70|68.104.69.70]] 06:15, 1 September 2005 (UTC) Don't really know what I'm signing up for, but I figured 'what the heck!'
* Here's to AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD!!! <small>[[en:User:RN|Ryan Norton]] <sup><font color="#6BA800">[[en:User talk:RN|T]]</font> | <font color="#0033FF">[[en:Special:Emailuser/RN|@]]</font> | <font color="#FF0000">[[en:Special:Contributions/RN|C]]</font></sup></small> 09:24, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
*Phase2 of Wikipedianism now beckons.[[User:Phase1|Phase1]] 11:32, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
* When I am able to pronounce "AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD" three times quickly, I will know it is time to take a wikibreak. [[User:Nandesuka|Nandesuka]] 15:32, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
* Following the crowd. --[[User:BenKovitz|BenKovitz]] 17:39, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
* [[User:Cmadler|Cmadler]] 13:09, 23 September 2005 (UTC)


==Voting for General Secretary==
== Min Nan Wikipedia ==
* I, Ashibaka, vote for [[w:en:User:Ashibaka|Ashibaka]].
** As do I. [[User:Eequor|&#8227;<font size="+1">&#5339;&#5505;</font>]]<font id="venus">[[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|&#9792;]]</font>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:User talk:Eequor}} <font size="+1">&#5200;</font>] 03:54, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**Here Here for Ashibaka [[User:Objective Researcher|Objective Researcher]] 05:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**I was being sarcastic, everyone should vote for themselves. :)
* I vote for '''everyone''' and '''no one'''. [[User:BrokenSegue|[[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken'''S'''egue]]]] 01:58, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**I second the vote for everyone. He's been doing a good job so far. --[[en:User:Brockert|Ben Brockert]] [[en:User talk:Brockert|&lt;]] 04:16, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
** I third the vote for everyone. [[User:TAS|TAS]] 16:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
**I fourth the vote for everyone. &mdash; '''[[User:Bcat|Bcat]]''' ([[User talk:Bcat|talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/Bcat|email]]) 18:35, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
**I fifth the vote for everyone. [[w:en:User:SFGiants|SFGiants]] 23:10, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
* '''Neutral''' -- I dislike making broad judgements about the worthiness of a general secretary. --[[User:Tysto|Tysto]] 04:43, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
* I think no-one has been doing a good job recently. Vote for "no one".
*I move to strike the votes for ''General Secretary'' and renominate [[w:en:User:Ashibaka|Ashibaka]] for ''Admiral Secretary''. [[w:en:User:Who|<font color=#FF0033><></font>Who]][[w:en:User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 11:43, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
**I move to strike all above votes and renominate Ashibaka for Lord High Admiral of the Fleet. [[User:Smoddy|Smoddy]] 09:15, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
***I second the motion and then eat it. mmmmm. [[User:69.193.171.161|69.193.171.161]] 07:43, 24 July 2005 (UTC)


===Motion Tabled===
I strongly disagree with this line of attack.
*As General Secretary, I note that a motion has been seconded to strike all votes for General Secretary (everyone (''incumbent''): 5*; Ashibaka: 3; noone:2*); and to nominate Ashibaka for "Lord High Admiral of the Fleet". [[User:Blockinblox|Blockinblox]] 15:47, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


(*Includes one joint vote for "everyone and noone")
Minor technical details:


'''Voting on this motion closes in 24 hrs.'''
*The author cites relatively trivial imperfections ("21 vs. 22") as an argument for the smaller editions being of worse quality than the largest editions. (On the other hand, it'd be a huge and serious mistake to state the value of PI as, more or less, 31.4 rather than 3.14, or that Einstein was the Anti-Christ.) (It's almost as if the author had trouble coming up with good arguments to defend his radical proposal.) The truth is that no doubt other mistakes and errors exist. No doubt some will ''not'' be weeded out for quite some time. Neither should suggest the inaccuracies, discrepancies, contradictions, mis-representations, and other errors (i.e. systematic mistakes and biases) and simple mistakes are permanent. This applies to wikis large and small, and numerous examples exist for wikis along the size spectrum. Moreover, the fact that such a numerical discrepancy exists on the main page does not necessarily suggest poor workmanship. Indeed, apparent mistakes (usually spelling and grammatical) are sometimes deliberately left behind or even inserted to encourage participation.
*To criticize a one-year-old wiki for having many fewer editors than wikis based on the top-ten languages (out of some 5,000+ human languages worldwide) is to wield an unfair yardstick.
*To single out specific editors for being "hyper-active" (relative to other editors on the same wiki) strikes me as a bit odd. All things being equal, participation is always a good thing. An example of unwelcomed "hyperactivity" is the use of bots to dump junk on Wikipedia. That's not the case at all. The real measure stick is in the quality of the edits.
*The real motivation behind this proposal is shown by this statement: "As a native Chinese speaker living in Taiwan, I can show you some problems created with unneeded dialect versions." i.e. the proposal is motivated by a subjective bias against certain language varieties deemed by the author to be "dialects". It is a view that is fundamentally socio-political and cannot be resolved by analyzing numbers (as the proposal tries to do).


::Those in favour:
[[User:A-giâu|A-giâu]] 10:09, 24 July 2005 (UTC)


::Opposed:
: These "relatively trivial imperfections" are easy to spot and created by your own edits. Yet for the past five months, they are not fixed. Now tell me something about quality.


::Abstentions: General Secretary Jones
: "Indeed, apparent mistakes (usually spelling and grammatical) are sometimes deliberately left behind or even inserted to encourage participation." Now just tell me did anyone participate?


* Voting on this motion is now closed and it is not carried. Votes for everyone (incumbent) as General Secretary remain in place, and are still the majority. General Secretary [[User:Blockinblox|Blockinblox]] 22:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
: I don't really care about hyper-activitism. So far you like it, there's no way to stop it. The point is I don't see USER BASE GROWTH. If this is a well-functioning wiki, the list of active users shall grow by, possibly, one per month or so. Within a year, there will be several active contributors and even more passive users. If people are using this wiki, they will fix your mistakes.


==Compare==
: I did not wield an unfair yardstick at a minor language. As you have said, Min Nan users are everywhere. It's on the 21st/22nd (whatever) place. So the speaker base is not a problem. And many of them are highly educated and reasonably wealthy. So the actual point is they don't come to your playground. And that's your policy's problem. -- [[User:Toytoy|Toytoy]] 12:26, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
* Members of this association are also invited to join the [[w:Wikipedia:Harmonious_editing_club|Harmonious Editing Club]].

* [[Association of Apathetic Wikipedians]]
==NPOV==
* [[Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians]]
This whole proposal strikes me as very POV against smaller languages. A language with a smaller number of speakers will have a smaller pool of authors to draw from - some of the smaller Wikis may have a higher proportion of editors:speakers than do en, es and fr for example.
* [[Association of Deletionist Wikipedians]]

* [[Association of Mergist Wikipedians]]
Certain languages are very important in national identity, and to close down a wiki because it isn't "performing" would be interpreted by some as a major slur against their identity. For example also, the Welsh language is a very political topic having been banned for many years and thus for Wikipedia to "supress" it (as this is how it would inevitably be seen by some) would be a PR disaster.
* [[Association of Redirectionist Wikipedians]]

* [[Association of Anarchist Wikipedians]]
See also the [[en:Sapir-Worf hypothesis]] which states that the language someone speaks influences their world view. How is declaring someone's view of the world as "failing" or "insignificant" compatible with NPOV? [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 13:25, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
* [[Association of Conservative Semi-Prejudicial Wikipedians]]

: With lots of money and many experienced translators, I can translate the whole or the core part of English Wikipedia into many small languages. If you rule out philosophical, historical, political and religious articles, most other articles can be translated without much POV infusion.

: With the English Wikipedia, people are talking about NPOV. But with these small wikis, you expect some local POVs. What are you thinking? What's your point? Wikipedia is not a think tank. You may speak Albanian or Zulu in your brain, but when it comes to calculus, you do it almost the same way as everybody else.

: My point is, if a wiki is contributed by only a few users, we see the contributors' personal POV rather than the general speakers' native POV or logical framework. Let's say if the English Wikipedia was written by Jimbo magically overnight, do you really think this 650,000-article Jimbopedia shall reflect the the POV or NPOV or world view of average English speakers?

: Sapir-Worf hypothesis is almost irrelevant when it comes to individual. Karl Rove and Michael Moore both thinks in English. Do you think an English wiki written by Karl Rove shall be the same as another one written by Michael Moore? Some fundamental frameworks inside their brains may be the same (objects, subjects, verbs ...), however, their views are too different for anyone to notice the fundamental similarities.

: Wikipedia is not a language ICU. It also shall not be a national identity nursery. If a wiki fails to attract a reasonal amount of writers and readers, let's close it. If they want to publish, there are other wikis and blogs.

: I know a mass killing of small wikis is bad PR. Only if people had not been creating non-functioning wikis so carelessly and so quickly ... -- [[User:Toytoy|Toytoy]] 14:21, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:09, 23 September 2005

Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgements About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are In Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They are Deletionist

I, Ashibaka, hereby establish the Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgements About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are In Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They are Deletionist (AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD).

The motto of the AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD is Est generatim difficilis judicare meritum quisdam rei includato in encyclopaedia cum non certe ratione scire qui capit populum, sed aliqui rei nihilominus non sunt apti prae encyclopaedia, which translates to, "it is generally difficult to judge the worthiness of a particular topic for inclusion in an encyclopedia considering that there is no certain way to know what interests people, but some topics nevertheless are not fit for an encyclopedia." This motto reflects the desire of these Wikipedians to be reluctant, but not entirely unwilling, to remove articles from Wikipedia.

Now for ten years we've been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rolling stone
But that's not how it used to be

Membership is not limited. All you have to do to become a member is list your name here. If you feel like expressing your wishy-washy feelings, you can do so at /Blurbs.

The current General Secretary is Everyone. All members are the Secretary, so nominations are unnecessary. Matters that concern the AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD as a group necessitate a vote.

Goals

I have always felt that these should be everyone's common goals:

  1. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
  2. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
  3. Love thy neighbour as thyself.

Template

Keeping up to date with the latest news in the Wikipolitical world, I have discovered the existence of w:Template:Inclusionist. I would not want our movement to be left out of this new and exciting realm of template-making, so therefore I have created w:Template:AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD. I encourage, but do not command, our members to use this interesting-looking template on their user pages. Good day! Ashibaka 19:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The template has been speedy-deleted without reason! I encourage members of this society to comment at w:Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion. Thryduulf 20:11, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Members

  • Oh look, here's my name again. Ashibaka 00:55, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 03:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC) - hahaha...
  • BrokenSegue 01:58, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)- why not?
  • Gtrmp 02:20, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Thanks Ashibaka for providing a "middle ground". Objective Researcher 05:11, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Who cares what the goals are, the name alone is cool enough to make me want to join! Jnc 16:51, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • I disagree with proposed "common goals." Adraeus 13:47, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • I support my local AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD representative. Plus, I'm now a member of everything but the Deletionist and Apathetic associations, so I'm bound to get lots of new friends. Wheee! (^_^) JRM 14:47, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Exactly what I'm looking for. Evil Monkey
  • --CiaraBeth 17:52, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC) Yay! Finally found somewhere I fit.
  • I think I also signed up to be an inclusionist, or at least considered it. I hope that doesn't disqualify me. TUF-KAT 22:06, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Tatteredpaper | (talk) Very Nice.
  • I don't join nothing -- count me in! -Rholton 05:55, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Any club have me as a member, etc... --Ben Brockert < 04:16, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Anything this wishy-washy is inherently worthy. IMeowbot 18:01, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Yup. Oven Fresh 21:01, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • \Mike 20:20, 2005 Jan 25 (UTC) yeah, this is so me :)
  • Definitely me. Too deletionist to be an inclusionist. Too inclusionist to be a deletionist. Too insane to be sane. --Deathphoenix 06:25, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Exactly my feelings! Simonfairfax 19:30, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Aurea mediocritas. —Charles P. 19:26, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • This looks like it includes my general POV about stuff. Alphax 02:17, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC
  • Ah, a club for me! Bratsche 03:14, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Ah, yes. This firs me just fine. Can I get the motto on a bumper sticker? – ClockworkSoul 18:06, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • The partylike wrangling over deletionism scares me. Really, who bloody cares if someone's a deletionist or an inclusionist. →Iñgólemo← talk 07:42, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • And to think it took me almost half a year to find this...and it's another edit...hooray.

217.9.49.2 13:04, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Boffy b 21:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) For great justice!
  • After a great deal of consideration, I feel this association is the place for me. Thryduulf 10:21, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • As above. TAS 10:49, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Ditto. E=MC^2 E=MC^2
  • Sounds good to me. Revived 16:59, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • How can I pass up membership in a group with such a great name? It even describes my thinking somewhat. DaveTheRed 01:26, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is weird and odd. I don't really join but half-way join. 24.33.244.93 04:44, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yay, a club for me! Firestorm 19:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Voting for General Secretary

  • I, Ashibaka, vote for Ashibaka.
    • As do I. ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 03:54, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Here Here for Ashibaka Objective Researcher 05:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • I was being sarcastic, everyone should vote for themselves. :)
  • I vote for everyone and no one. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] 01:58, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Neutral -- I dislike making broad judgements about the worthiness of a general secretary. --Tysto 04:43, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • I think no-one has been doing a good job recently. Vote for "no one".
  • I move to strike the votes for General Secretary and renominate Ashibaka for Admiral Secretary. <>Who?¿? 11:43, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Motion Tabled

  • As General Secretary, I note that a motion has been seconded to strike all votes for General Secretary (everyone (incumbent): 5*; Ashibaka: 3; noone:2*); and to nominate Ashibaka for "Lord High Admiral of the Fleet". Blockinblox 15:47, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(*Includes one joint vote for "everyone and noone")

Voting on this motion closes in 24 hrs.

Those in favour:
Opposed:
Abstentions: General Secretary Jones
  • Voting on this motion is now closed and it is not carried. Votes for everyone (incumbent) as General Secretary remain in place, and are still the majority. General Secretary Blockinblox 22:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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