View source for Wikijunior/Kiki character/Designs/Second last round

*'''''This page is about creating a recurrent character for the Wikijunior project. For discussion about the character see: [[Wikijunior project Kiki character]] '''''
*'''''About Wikijunior:'''A while ago, the Beck Foundation approached the Wikimedia Foundation, inquiring about whether we would be able to use our resources to develop educational material for a younger audience. We responded that we would be interested in such a project, and that our materials can be adapted for children. A proposal was sent, and we received a small grant to develop the project (see [http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings/October_16%2C_2004 October 16, 2004 board meeting]). Thus was born Wikijunior. For more information see the project's page: [[Wikijunior]] here on meta and the actual project being developped [[b:Wikijunior|here]] on wikibooks.'' 

==Foreword==
These entries are in the order I received them, based on multiple postings in multiple locales, over multiple months. I ask you to treat all of these artists with respect, even if you're completely against their designs. This discussion '''is not the place to discuss the validity of Kiki/Keiki/Niki/Nikki''', this is solely to discuss what design(s) is your pick, and why you think these are the best.

I've included any back history, portfolios of work, that sort of thing, when made available to me, to let you get a better understanding of what each artist has to offer the project. Some of the information (especially gender) is extremely trivial, but it's in there just to fill out the length.

Eventually in the call for designs, lifted the Hawaii element from requirements, as I could sense that restriction was restraining creative freedoms, and thus prohibiting people from participating as eagerly. Colour was always optional in the entries, in one of the earliest posts, I actually asked that they weren't coloured yet.

Before we were begin, I must comment that while I'm completely satisifed with what we received for this project, I was expecting to have more of the deviantArt and other communities to jump at the chance to have their work in a true publication.

==Nikki 2==
[[image:kiki2.JPG|150px|thumb|right|2]]
[[:image:nikki 2.jpg|Full picture]]
; Name: Alexander Shen
; Gender: Male
; Experience: [http://www.gashaponshop.net/ Gashapon Shop], other web comics
; DeviantArt: [http://soks2626.deviantart.com/ DeviantArt Page]

===Comments===
*Might be a little 'cute' for our teen readers.  I very much like the look of the action poses in the full picture, seems competently drawn, but, I think we might need a character a little less 'girly' especially for the teens and boys.  A little less cute, and a little more rugged, before I would pick this as the best.  I do like this one though, seems to be versatile enough to go anywhere. (my teenage nephew:) ''"Yeah, that's cool, one of my top two choices.  She's a little girly for guys to like, though"'' (me again:) I like the action poses quite a bit, and am seriously leaning toward preferring the style of this artist (see [[Wikijunior project Nikki character designs#Nikki 5|Nikki 5]])for these reasons:
**versatile, can work in any pose.
**very pen-and-ink looking, the strong black lines lend themselves to print media very well, not reliant on color printing, in case the page doesn't have other color images on it.
** nice compact images that don't depend on fashion accessories to be interesting, seems like a nice wholesome universal kid. [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 18:56, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

** Good points.  --  [[user:zanimum]]

* I've added my DeviantArt Page for further reference.  I'd be very honored if I were able to work on this project.  If you would like to see anything else, please let me know.  -Alex 8.2.2005
** Great to see you're here, I was just about to start contacting all the participants to have them come. I'm glad you're still interested in the project. -- [[user:zanimum]]

*Too girly. We don't want to put boys off. [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa knott]] 17:26, 16 August 2005 (UTC)


==Nikki 4==
[[image:kiki4.JPG|150px|thumb|right|4]]
[[:image:nikki 4.jpeg||Full picture]]
; Name: Lan
; Deviantart account: Azarath [http://azarath.deviantart.com/gallery]
; Location: United States of America
; Gender: Female

===Comments===
* First, let me say I do not like the bare midriff/bellybutton thing... this image should be one that may not offend 'other cultures', and some parents would consider it a little 'sexy'.  I think it's a bit "Barbie" too.  '''comment from my teenage nephew: ''She looks a little bit too '''Sabrina the Teenage Witch''' or '''Valley Girl''' ... she's too lanky for someone her age''''' (me again:) I think this one emphasizes style details too much and looks distinctly American.  I'd need to see her doing some sort of exploration, what would she wear to an archaeological excavation?  How would she do her hair in a humid jungle? etc. Well drawn, but seems to be not a serious kid. [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 18:38, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

:* "seems to be not a serious kid" That could be taken to our advantage, I guess. Instead of just an anybody's best friend-type character that Kiki likely will be, this design could take it a step further and be a lot of boys first crush. So your recommendations would be less deviance from a tweenage body structure, and slightly more conservative clothing?  --  [[user:zanimum]]

::*PLEASE don't try to deliberately make this character less sexy! Geez, so what if the character is a little sexy? God knows we could do with some sexiness here at Wikimedia, it's something that's been rather lacking up to now. Great picture. Pleeez don't change it to make it all boring! --[[User:Ce garcon|Ce garcon]] 17:19, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

:::* I think our main worry is the internationalization of these books. Where ever the voluminous grants are (Africa, China, Middle East), the governments and societies are rather conservative. While we're translating and even outright changing the content covered in each edition, I'd rather not have multiple Kikis.  --  [[user:zanimum]]

I have no objection to sexiness ''per se'', but remember that the context is a book for kids around the world.  Like zamium said, and I agree, I think it should be more universal.  Nothing wrong with the character, just the costuming.  A big drawback though, is that she seems to me to be a very specific type of person, I'd have to see her in something besides this pose and this costume before I'd like this one.  Would like to see a black and white rendering as well, not every page our toon is on will be color.  I doubt this character no matter what she looks like is going to be anyone's first crush.  But whether that's the case or not, I think it might be wise to anticipate objections from some cultures about bare midriffs and the like.  I think it doesn't matter what she looks like as long as consistency can be maintained; as long as the character can be a versatile, go anywhere do anything type; as long as she won't turn off the parents of the kids who will be reading the books, or the kids themselves, and print well.  I don't think this one is best suited to those criteria, ''at this point'' but the discussion is still current and there's plenty of time to show me I'm wrong by drawing something that will suit a universal audience, and drawing some poses that are more than 'fashion model poses'.  Besides, my objections don't mean much if a dozen others disagree, so we'll see how the discussion goes. [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 01:27, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
:Well I agree. She is too Barbie doll for my taste. [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa knott]] 17:35, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
::Although the character is in a static pose, she looks like she has a dynamic personality.  Would be great to see her "in action". I think Pedant's "focus group" should comment.  I am sure the author can change her clothes.  Is she going to be Polynesian?  Can her eye, hair, and skin tones be darkened?  What does her profile look like? Will she have a nose?  Can her features look Polynesian? Or has the Polynesian idea been dropped? --[[User:SV Resolution|SV Resolution]] 13:07, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

==Nikki 5==
[[image:kiki5.JPG|150px|thumb|right|5]]
[[:Image:Rainee.jpg|Rainee, different views]]* 
[[:Image:Rainee-buffet.jpg|Rainee, comic]]*
[[:Image:Rainee-friends.jpg|Other characters in Gashapon Shop]]*
* note Rainee is an existing character design, a possible design for Nikki

; Name: Alexander Shen
; Gender: Male
; Experience: [http://www.gashaponshop.net/ Gashapon Shop], other web comics
; DeviantArt: [http://soks2626.deviantart.com/ DeviantArt Page]
These are illustrations/panels that I stole with permission from ''Gashapon Shop''. The character pictured is named Rainee, and she runs a hobby shop for her dad. The reason I've included this character is because I'm anticipating many of you will find #2 too cutesy.

===Comments===
* I am seriously leaning toward preferring the style of this artist (see my comments at [[Wikijunior project Nikki character designs#Nikki 2|Nikki 2]]) for these reasons:
** versatile, can work in any pose.
** very pen-and-ink looking, the strong black lines lend themselves to print media very well, not reliant on color printing, in case the page doesn't have other color images on it.
** nice compact images that don't depend on fashion accessories to be interesting, seems like a nice wholesome universal kid. 
** This one is a little more rugged, I'm picturing Nikki number 2 without the cute flower, although I '''am not against cute flowers in the right context''' -- I think she could dress up to go to a Luau or Potlatch or the like, and a costume might be suitable in those cases, but I'd like to see her in lab coats and cargo pants and, pretty much whatever outfit would be suitable in her environment, but '''NOT''' be a fashion girl, just be ready for anything.  [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 18:56, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

** Good points.  --  [[user:zanimum]]

* I've added my DeviantArt Page for further reference.  I'd be very honored if I were able to work on this project.  If you would like to see anything else, please let me know.  -Alex 8.2.2005
** Great to see you're here, I was just about to start contacting all the participants to have them come. I'm glad you're still interested in the project. -- [[user:zanimum]]
* My favorite. Simple, versatile, and elegantly drawn. Having checked out the artist's other work, I'm confident that this will work. --[[User:208.25.63.25|208.25.63.25]] 19:09, 10 August 2005 (UTC) (don't have an account on Meta, but I'm CodeGeneratR on the English and Swedish Wikipedia).

* I like this artist's style very much. Although I prefer some of his other characters. See [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20695716/ for an example of what he can do] [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa knott]] 16:32, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
* I like these ones best. [[User:Angela|Angela]]

* I'd certainly commission this artist. Maybe I'd even read his webcomic. :) [[User:Ashibaka|Ashibaka]] 01:56, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

* Cute. :) My favourite design. --[[User:70.49.164.252|70.49.164.252]] 03:50, 10 September 2005 (UTC) (User:Shanel on Wikibooks and Wikipedia)

==Nikki 7==
[[image:kiki7.JPG|150px|thumb|right|7]]
[[:image:DrJones-Wikijunior-Sketch.jpg|Full picture]]
; Name: Carlos Hoyos Barceló
; Location: Spain
; Gender: Male
; Wikipedia connection: User of es. [[user:Carlos Hoyos|meta user page of Dr. Jones]]
; Experience: He has some experience in animation.
; Deviantart page: [http://drjonezzz.deviantart.com/] (old pictures)

===Comments===
*I like this artist (see my comments at [[Wikijunior project Nikki character designs#Nikki 2|Nikki 2]]) for these reasons:
** versatile, can work in any pose.
** classic cartoon look
this one works for me as much as 2 and 5 for some of the same reasons.  Might be nice to see more from this artist, in a variety of environments. [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 19:42, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

** I agree with your comments, but I'll ask Carlos to hold back from posting more poses, in case the rest of the community sways against it for some reason.  --  [[user:zanimum]]
*I like it. It's professional looking [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa knott]] 17:38, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

==Nikki 12==
[[image:nil kiki.jpg|250px|thumb|12]]
; Name: Daniel Nilsen
; More stuff from Daniel: http://www.sge-games.co.uk/wotpsite/kiki.jpg
; Notes from Daniel: If I got it right it's supposed to be a girl who lives in Hawaii. I can't say I've seen any specific age on her. Only that you'd prefer her to be "relatively attractive". So judging from that and the fact that she's supposed to be young, I figured around the age 16-19. Anyway, I'm sure you get a lot of Lilo & Stitch type of designs, so I wanted mine to look somewhat unique (yet normal). So I made her very much like my niece at the age of 13 would like her. My version of Kiki is very adult and female, but still fresh, playful and sporty. I also made her "race" in a grey-zone. Whether or not she's a native Hawaiian girl is left wide open for the reader. I think it's a character that would be very much liked by young ones as it's very stylish and not too suger-sweet. I hope you like it as much as I do. If not, it was very fun trying. And you're more than welcome to ask me again.
; image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/5/51/Nil_kiki.jpg

*This one is pretty neat too. --[[User:Ce garcon|Ce garcon]] 17:21, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
**Nice fresh look.  Very reproducible.  Would like to see some other poses and costumes, perhaps a black and white version, also see my objections above to bare midriffs, ''vis a vis'' our international multicultural target audience. I like this one as much as any of the others, costuming considerations aside.  In fact I like this one very much. [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 01:39, 12 August 2005 (UTC)  Just checked this one out with teenager nephew, he likes it and says it's ''"one of the better one's we've seen, but seems a little old for the target audience"''... I could maybe be happy with something along the lines of this image. Might try to knock 2 years off her age? or not... [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 01:45, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
***I like her most from the suggestions --[[User:Louisana|Louisana]] 19:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
* You all must realise that this artist a.) was late b.) didn't follow the instructions that were in every posting, so might not follow future instructions if chosen. Plus this character ''will not'' go over well ''anywhere'' where we can get foreign aid grants.   --  [[user:zanimum]]

*I like the face on this one. The clothes are too hip looking, and the bare midriff is too sexy (hip today looks very dated very quickly). The books are aimed at 8 - 11 year olds so kiki should IMO be younger than 16. Never the less I'm drawn to the picture. It looks good. [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa knott]] 18:04, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

==Nikki 13==
''This is a late entry with zanimum's permission. I've taken the liberty of adding myself, as it's apparent that things need to get moving.'' [[User:Risk|Risk]] 23:20, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
[[Image:Kiki thumb.risk.jpg|thumb|right|13]]
[[User:Risk\Kiki|Full Picture and others]]
; Name: [[User:Risk|Risk]]
; Location: Netherlands
; Notes: I'd like to think there's a tinge of polynesian in there, but It might just be my imagination. I gave her sort of a rangers uniform, to circumvent the whole clothing dilemma. I do see her wearing costumes like spacesuits or historical stuff as well. I've missed the voting deadline, but feel free to vote me out anyway. :)

===comments===
I like these quite a bit [[User:Pedant|Pedant]] 03:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

==Least favourite==
[[Wikijunior project Kiki character designs/"Least favourite" voting archives]]

So what now? [[User:Risk|Risk]] 21:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)