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== Imalbornoz ==
==Christsos==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Christsos===
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Pppery}} 04:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Christsos}}<p>{{ds/log|Christsos}}</p>
===Request concerning Imalbornoz===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ''[[User:Pfainuk|Pfainuk]]'' <small>''[[User Talk:Pfainuk|talk]]''</small> 21:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Imalbornoz}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gibraltar#Discretionary_sanctions]]
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA4]] extended-confirmed restriction
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Faiq_Al-Mabhouh&diff=1220104830 Created] [[Faiq Al-Mabhouh]]
#[[Talk:Gibraltar/Archive_22#Wot_Discussion.3F|A long discussion in which users repeatedly refuse requests to explain objections to proposed edits]], which is described by [[WP:DE]] as disruptively refusing to engage in the consensus-building process (January 2011).
# Created [[Ibrahim Biari]] (deleted by me as G4)
#[[Talk:Gibraltar/Archive_22#Back_to_mediation|A long discussion in which users repeatedly refuse requests to explain objections to proposed edits]] (March 2011).
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Eyal_Shuminov&diff=1220061045 Created] [[Draft:Eyal Shuminov]]
#[[Talk:Gibraltar#Explanation_for_Reverts|A long discussion in which users repeatedly refuse requests to explain objections to proposed edits]] (March 2011).
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gibraltar&diff=421529170&oldid=421518698 19:18, 30 March 2011] Wikilawyering over the precise definition of "prevalence".
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gibraltar&curid=298738&diff=425385208&oldid=425376669 19:18, 22 April 2011] Includes a direct accusation of bad faith against me (that I take my position purely through some kind embarrassment about the conduct of my country's soldiers 300 years ago, as opposed to the genuine concerns about the weight, neutrality and accuracy of certain points in the paragraph concerned that I have repeatedly expressed).
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gibraltar&diff=425317563&oldid=424937557][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gibraltar&diff=425386175&oldid=425377088] Edit warring to a two-week old version of the article.


All of these are very obviously related to the conflict
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Imalbornoz&diff=402621981&oldid=402556713 01:43, 16 December 2010] by {{user|Vassyana}}
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGibraltar&action=historysubmit&diff=403069419&oldid=403064568 20:37, 18 December 2010] by {{user|Vassyana}}
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gibraltar&diff=408068580&oldid=408066765 19:33, 15 January 2011] by {{user|Vassyana}}


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Christsos&diff=prev&oldid=1219933421 19:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)] (see the system log linked to above).
Discretionary sanctions to be imposed on [[User:Imalbornoz]].


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
This has proved a particularly intractable content dispute, but its intractability is made far worse by the fact that Imalbornoz (and fellow editor Richard Keatinge) have proven themselves unwilling to engage in the consensus-building process. You'll see several things in the discussions I linked above. There's [[WP:OWN]] violations (see the [[Talk:Gibraltar#OMG.2C_Wee_Curry_Monster_has_done_it_again.21.21.21.21.21|title of this section]] for a typical example - Curry Monster is essentially told that he is not allowed to be [[WP:BOLD]]). You will see in the discussions above lots of times when asked for objections, these editors cite lack of consensus consensus. When pushed, they state that things are "required", or "very notable and relevant" with no argument whatsoever backing that up.

It takes literally weeks of asking to get an argument ''of any kind'' objecting to any proposal - which would seem to be exactly the "roadblocking" that Vassanya described in the warnings provided. And even then it is generally couched in the sort of bad faith accusations that you saw in the diff from this evening.

Today, Imalbornoz has twice reverted a work in progress because, he said, the [[Great Siege of Gibraltar]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGibraltar&action=historysubmit&diff=425317659&oldid=425075312 took up one third of the history scetion]. That was the only objection expressed. Never mind that it was very much a work in progress and that the Great Siege would not have been a third of the length in the end (and Imalbornoz had been told that). Never mind that the Great Siege was one of the most significant things to have happened to Gibraltar in the last three hundred years (and thus given lots and lots of weight by reliable sources), and that the reverts remove it from the article altogether.

Note in that diff that there is no constructive criticism. It's all about "[w]hat I think isn't reasonable at all is WC Monster's current History section" and "[s]omeone should convince WC Monster to be reasonable". This is entirely typical of the sorts of responses we get. The article is at a standstill because of this egregious "roadblocking", and I and Curry Monster have asked repeatedly that it stop, but as you can see, it has not.

For me, that accusation of bad faith this evening was the straw that broke the camel's back. Even taken alone, this is something that I should not have to put up with on an article under Arbcom discretionary sanctions, particularly when the editor concerned has been warned under those sanctions. But I believe the above demonstrates that it is not the only problem with this editor's behaviour here. As such, I would now like to ask that discretionary sanctions be applied.

Note that I will be going away on Sunday for a week, and during that time will almost certainly not respond to discussion. Note also that Curry Monster has a bereavement to deal with at the moment.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
[[User talk:Christsos#Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion]]
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Imalbornoz&diff=prev&oldid=425400493 21:02, 22 April 2011]


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning Imalbornoz===


====Statement by Imalbornoz====
===Discussion concerning Christsos===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Christsos====
There has been a discussion in the Gibraltar article since October 2009 (one year and a half!), in which PfainUK and WC Monster have tried to avoid mentioning certain events in Gibraltar's history, while Richard Keatinge and myself have thought it reasonable to mention them.


====Statement by BilledMammal====
About the '''ARBCOM''':
I see the editor has been inactive as of a few days prior to this report, so I wanted to ask - did anyone try to explain the ECR's to them beyond placing the ARBPIA notification on their talk page? 22:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
:I see he mentions a previous ARBCOM ruling during which WC Monster (then calling himself "Justin A Kuntz" or "Justin the Evil Scotsman") received a 3 month topic ban (in spite of PfainUK's defense) for...[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gibraltar/Evidence#User_Justin:]


===Result concerning Christsos===
{{Collapse top|...some examples from the ARBCOM...}}
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
{{
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*erasing my comments in the talk pages
*{{u|Christsos}}, if you have anything to say, now would be the time. It looks like all of these happened after you were explicitly left a contentious topics notice informing you of the 30/500 restrictions, so can you please explain why you are clearly violating that? I'll give you a short while to explain, but otherwise I'm very much leaning toward a sanction. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 22:06, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
*calling me and others "trolls" or "POV pushers"
*:I'm on the same page. They haven't edited in a couple days so there's no immediate need to step in. We can wait to see if there's a decent response. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
*accusing "Spanish editors" of "meat puppetry", "Tendentiousness", "Wikilawyering", "Ad hominem attacks", "Disruptive editing"
*:{{u|Seraphimblade}}. they're still not around. How do you feel about a logged warning that the next violation will result in a one week block, followed by escalating blocks for further violations? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 14:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*saying about mediators and admins "Half-arsed ill-informed half-cocked and half-baked admin intervention that gives admins a bad name"
*::{{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, I'm not a fan of that, as we'd essentially be tying the hands of future admins as to what to do if the violations continue (if it's a highly technical and probably inadvertent violation, maybe they only want to block for a day, and if it's egregious and obviously intentional, maybe they go right to a month, or even indef if the editor states they intend to keep violating it). I don't think we should predetermine the outcome of future actions. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 17:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*calling other editors "Spanish nationalists"; "disruptive"; "browbeating people into submission"; writing "tendentious crap"; "offensive"/"patronising"
*:::I'll buy that, yeah. So a non-specific logged warning? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*retired (only for a few days, it seemed) saying "The facists bastards win it seems", "Its shameful that a supposedly democratic Spain should be carrying on that Fascist Fuck Franco's crusade but lets be honest about it, its macho fucking Spanish pride. (...) Fuck the lot of them", "Frankly you're being a petty little shit", "I bare my buttocks in your general direction"...}}
*::::I'm good with that. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 02:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
{{Collapse bottom}}


==Entropyandvodka==
:Many of these niceties were directed at me, while ''PfainUK kept defending WC Monster''. After the 3 month topic ban, WC Monster returned to edit warring and received a 0RR ban[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive77#Wee_Curry_Monster] (PfainUK, again, defended WC Monster in the Arbitration Enforcement Noticeboard).
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Entropyandvodka===
:You can see that Pfainuk has never critisized his fellow WC Monster's extreme abuse, but -on the other hand- finds my behavior so disruptive as to start here an accusation. I would call that partisanship or one-sidedness. Myself, I have tried to keep a cool head and assume good faith (I think that mostly successfully), which as you can imagine has not been easy at all in face of all this abuse (from WC Monster) and one-sidedness (from Pfainuk).
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|BilledMammal}} 19:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Entropyandvodka}}<p>{{ds/log|Entropyandvodka}}</p>
About the '''dispute''':
:The issue here has been (for 1.5 years!) whether to include or not the widespread violence that British and Dutch soldiers used on the civil population of Gibraltar during its capture, and the subsequent exodus of the population to a place called San Roque (keeping the curious tradition that they are the "real" Gibraltar). Those are facts that have been used by Spanish nationalists to support their irredentist claim on Gibraltar, and have been called "embarrassing" by British historians, but no one disputes their factuality.


:WC Monster and PfainUK have been trying to:
:*not mention these facts in the article, first trying to impose a theory that completely misconstrued the sources[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGibraltar&action=historysubmit&diff=312040692&oldid=312035271] (that's when I came in the discussion). Please take a look at what they were trying to say in the article: "''much of the population chose to leave Gibraltar fearing reprisals following the murder of English and Dutch soldiers.[2] Parts of the town were then plundered by the occupying forces.[3]''" Actually the soldiers raped, plundered and desecrated churches, ''and then'' the civilians felt fear and decided to leave.
:*(when I finally convinced them that their theory was wrong) they tried to remove any reference to these facts. They argued that the article was already too long and UNDUE weight (curiously, only to remove mention of these events, while they don't care about other episodes in the history of Gibraltar, that are given a much lower weight by sources).
:*now, they are trying to inflate the article by FIFTY PERCENT talking about the siege that Spaniards and French held on Gibraltar after its capture (forget about the article being too long!!).


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions]]
About '''PfainUK's accusation''':
*I have not accused anyone of bad faith in the talk page. I have limited myself to mentioning the facts I summarize above (although I must admit that with them one could have a good case for saying that these two editors are consciously or unconsciously motivated by nationalist motives rather than by WP's ultimate goals and policies).


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
*PfainUK accuses me of not engaging in discussion (after 1.5 years!!), not mentioning policy-related arguments (when I've even made lists of sources,[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Imalbornoz/Gibraltar] of arguments...[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2011-01-14/Gibraltar/Archive_1#3._What_your_opinion_on_resolving_it_.28i.e._your_position.2Fyour_.27side.27.29]), ... I really think that this accusation is self-defeating if you take even a general look at the discussion.
[[WP:1RR]] violations and 1RR gaming at [[Israeli war crimes]]:
#{{diff2|1219978462|02:22, 21 April 2024}} (said that Israel had committed genocide → found that Israel had committed genocide)
#{{diff2|1220005367|07:05, 21 April 2024}} (said that Israel had committed genocide → finding reasonable grounds that Israel had committed genocide)
#:Was requested to self revert at {{diff2|1220010322|07:51, 21 April 2024}}. Did so at {{diff2|1220119072|22:58, 21 April 2024}}, saying {{tq|Self reverting per request, as that edit can be considered a revert. Will be putting that material back in later tonight for the same reasons.}}
#{{diff2|1220169156|06:18, 22 April 2024}} (said that Israel had committed genocide → found Israel was committing genocide)


I don't know whether 06:18 is a second 1RR violation, but it is gaming of 1RR and seeing 1RR as an allowance, rather than a hard limit - reimplementing a reverted violation 23 hours after initially implementing it and seven hours after reverting it is not aligned with our expectations regarding self-reverting violations.
'''Conclusion''': I actually think that this is a very sensitive dispute and we are not able to find a solution by ourselves. Now that the matter has been brought to this noticeboard (for the 2nd or 3rd time in 1.5 years) I would ask for admin intervention in the discussion and (especially) some opinion on WC Monster's and PfainUK's behavior (and my own behavior as well, of course). We need help!!!


I [[User_talk:Entropyandvodka#WP:1RR_at_Israeli_war_crimes|requested they re-self-revert]]; they have refused to do so, and are now arguing that 07:05, 21 April 2024 was not a revert.
Thank you. -- [[User:Imalbornoz|Imalbornoz]] ([[User talk:Imalbornoz|talk]]) 22:27, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on {{diff2|1179956348|5:10, 13 October 2023}} (see the system log linked to above).


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
:I think T. Canens' proposal is just great. Please, do go ahead! I don't think we can solve this by ourselves, and the longer we keep going, the fewer editors remain interested (many editors, like [[User:The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick|The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick]], [[User:Ecemaml|Ecemaml]], [[User:Cremallera|Cremallera]]..., have been bored into exile during the last 1.5 years...) -- [[User:Imalbornoz|Imalbornoz]] ([[User talk:Imalbornoz|talk]]) 12:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
There's a few other recent 1RR violations (for example, {{diff2|1217985561|02:21, 9 April 2024}} and {{diff2|1217915211|16:46, 8 April 2024}}), but no recent gaming as far as I can tell.


The issue with this one, though, is how blatant it is; they didn't wait 24 hours to revert back to their preferred version after self-reverting, they waited just seven - if we don't consider the time the between making the violating revert (07:05) and self-reverting the violation (22:58) it means they reverted back to their preferred version just twelve hours after initially reverting to their preferred version.
::Sandstein and T. Canens, 2 comments:
::*I would agree to the topic ban as well if that helps de-monopolize the article. The only problem would be if someone comes and completely changes the decision reached after the RfC. What would be the role of the incumbent editors?
::*Regarding the procedure for the RfC: one of the usual fears from the editors involved in a long and detailed discussion is that an outside mediator/admin does not grasp the main points in it; another danger is an almost irresistible drive for the inside editors to keep adding comments in the RfC that usually drive outside editors away (I have seen this happen in this discussion time and again). My suggestion would be that the two sides in the dispute have an initial statement with a word limit (like the 500 words limit in the ARBCOM initial statements, for example) to explain the essentials of the dispute from each POV and then they are only allowed to comment by invitation by the admin or mediator.
::What do you think? -- [[User:Imalbornoz|Imalbornoz]] ([[User talk:Imalbornoz|talk]]) 16:41, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


If this is permissible, then that means editors who wait 24 hours from their first revert to self revert would be permitted to revert back immediately after self reverting, making the restriction considerably less effective at preventing edit warring and disruption. 22:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
====Comments by others about the request concerning Imalbornoz ====
I'd like to support Imalbornoz's comments and commend his patience in an intractable dispute; I suggest that this particular request is not worth further attention. While I'm here, I would like to record my thanks to [[User talk:NebY|NebY]] for recent helpful edits which may actually break the logjam on this article, and if any editors are prepared to follow his bold example I'd be really grateful for further substantive help. [[User:Richard Keatinge|Richard Keatinge]] ([[User talk:Richard Keatinge|talk]]) 11:37, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
{{diff2|1221246870|19:31, 28 April 2024}}


===Discussion concerning Entropyandvodka===
:I have some acquaintance with this controversy through a peripheral [[WP:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Due_weight_and_numbers_of_sources|discussion]] we are having at the NPOV noticeboard; I am not otherwise involved in the [[Gibraltar]] article.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Entropyandvodka====
:It appears to me that this controversy is mainly about the four principal editors of that article ([[User:Imalbornoz|Imalbornoz]], [[User:Wee Curry Monster|Wee Curry Monster]], [[User:Pfainuk]], and [[User:Richard Keatinge|Richard Keatinge]]) tending to reach a "critical mass" too quickly and railing away at each other. I don't know that any of them is significantly any more (or less) at fault for this than any other; I think the matter needs to be considered in terms of the group situation, and not just in regard of a single editor.
This is misleading. While [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1219978462 edit 1] was a revert, edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1220005367 2] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1220169156 3] were not reverts, per the guidelines in [[Wikipedia:Reverting#What_is_a_reversion?|WP:Reverting]]. The paragraph in all versions contains the proposition that Francesca Albanese said (or stated) that Israel had committed or was committing genocide, providing her exact quote. Edits 2 and 3 didn't change this. They added additional propositions (she submitted a report, the findings/conclusion of the report). The term 'found' here refers to the findings/conclusions contained in her submitted report, which was passingly referenced in the initial version before BilledMammal's later-reverted edit. BilledMammal's edit essentially just made the same explicit proposition twice in two consecutive sentences. Edits 2 and 3 fall into the classification of examples provided in [[Wikipedia:Reverting#What_is_a_reversion?|WP:Reverting]] as 'A normal change, not a reversion' as they add additional propositions without removing any. Boiling down the propositions in the differences, we have:


Edit before BilledMammal edit:
:I think also it would be unproductive to get into detailed recitals of "he said, she said", as there is a long history here not readily unwound. I don't think there is any deliberate bad behavior; it seems they sometimes just get too wound up about an issue. I wonder if it would be more useful to coach the involved editors in how to avoid the triggering behaviors. - [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 00:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
She found X. She said X


BilledMammal edit (before the reversion)
::Sandstein suggests a break from this article for all of us, an idea that I've previously suggested and would support now. But note that NebY may have managed to get things moving already. [[User:Richard Keatinge|Richard Keatinge]] ([[User talk:Richard Keatinge|talk]]) 10:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
She said X. She said X.


Edits 2 and 3 (not reversions)
:::  I '''strongly recommend ''against''''' any across the board topic banning. These editors are having difficulties working together, but banning them does nothing to remove the difficulty, and ''would deprive the article of four interested, knowledgeable editors''. It appears to me that the difficulties are not irresolvable, and working out how to resolve them would be a great benefit to Wikipedia far beyond this article. Perhaps they could be banned from making any unilateral changes to the article, but with an exception for any changes they all agree to on the talk page. Other conditions are needed, but an across the board topic ban would do little good, and likely deprive us of greater good. - [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 00:17, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
She submitted report X, which found/concluded X. She said X.


I'd point out briefly here that the initial version, before and after BilledMammal's reverted edit, did warrant revision, as it referred to the findings/conclusion of a report without explicitly mentioning the report. I now think BilledMammal was right to make that initial edit, and I was wrong to simply revert it, as that original form of the sentence ''with no additional information'' would go against [[MOS:SAID]]. Edit 1, the revert I did make of BilledMammal's edit, failed to address this issue, but the subsequent edits 2 and 3 addressed this, without information/proposition loss. Edit 3 was a slightly clearer version of edit 2.
::::I happily bind myself only to make changes that are supported by all of the others. If that's enforced on all of us by an admin prepared to follow-up long-term, I think we have a solution. All four have more to offer Wikipedia, and indeed this article, than arguments about our long-standing content disagreements. [[User:Richard Keatinge|Richard Keatinge]] ([[User talk:Richard Keatinge|talk]]) 08:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


After edit 2, in which I first added the additional material, BilledMammal accused me of violating 1RR. I self-reverted when requested to, in the spirit of collaboration, though didn't agree that adding that material constituted a revert, and ultimately added it later in edit 3. All the material is RS-backed, and provides informative and relevant context. If I'm correct that edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reversions, then there's no 1RR violation. If I believed edit 2 or edit 3 constituted a revert, I wouldn't have made either edit.
:::  I have seen the prior [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=402600644#Wee_Curry_Monster very thorough analysis by Vassyana] (essentially the same situation as here, but focused on another editor), but suggest that this current flare-up does not disaffirm the possible effectiveness of "lesser measures". It appears the editors involved have been advised in general terms to to work together better, but have not yet addressed the specific behaviors that cause the problems. Draconian measures won't help, they need assistance at a finer level. - [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 18:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


On my talk page, I attempted multiple times to engage with BilledMammal about the substance of the issue, sought feedback, asking how BilledMammal wanted to write it to add the additional material. BilledMammal repeatedly refused to engage much about the topic, showed no interest in seeking consensus, instead accusing me of a 1RR violation and demanding I self-revert to BilledMammal's version. BilledMammal then threatened arbitration if I didn't comply. I made a good faith attempt to show to BilledMammal why I believe edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reverts, and offered two more suggestions to reach an inclusive consensus. BilledMammal did not respond to these suggestions.
===Result concerning Imalbornoz===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
I don't see anything in the request that would, on its own, clearly require admin intervention. From a brief look at the issue it seems more likely that J. Johnson's guess is correct and that we have a problematic group editing situation. I'm not sure that AE is equipped to deal with it, though. [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gibraltar#Discretionary_sanctions|Discretionary sanctions]] are more suited for addressing clearly identifiable misbehavior by individuals. Consider trying more formal content dispute resolution, such as a content [[WP:RFC]] or mediation. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<font style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">'''&nbsp;Sandstein&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span></small> 05:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
* We might try long term protection (in the three month range) if it keeps up, but mostly this just looks like a minor flare-up between editors with long memories who are basically trying to work within the system. The talkpage looks like a lot of ''let us use *this* version while we wait for consensus to magically materialize'', but it stays basically civil and I am not convinced by the [[WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT]] assertion. 1RR for the article is also an option, but I think that that would miss the point. Recommend content-focused [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]], and closing this report if there are no objections. - [[User talk:2over0|2/0]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/2over0|cont.]])</small> 08:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
*This is basically a case of two groups of two editors each arguing back and forth. This dispute has gone to such an extent that [[Talk:Gibraltar]] has been essentially monopolized by them since October 2010 ([http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php?wikilang=en&wikifam=.wikipedia.org&page=Talk%3AGibraltar&since=2010-10-01&until=&grouped=on&hideminor=on&hidebots=on&order=-edit_count&max=100&order=-edit_count&format=html]). This is not good at all.<p>The applicable discretionary sanctions provision states that:
*:Editors wishing to edit in the area of dispute are advised to edit carefully, to adopt Wikipedia's communal approaches (including appropriate conduct, <u>dispute resolution</u>, neutral point of view, no original research and verifiability) in their editing, and to amend behaviors that are deemed to be of concern by administrators. Any editor who is unable or unwilling to do so may wish to limit his or her editing to other topics, in order to avoid sanctions. (Emphasis added)
:The dispute here should have been resolved, one way or another, a long time ago. As a principle in the case pointed out, "sustained editorial conflict is not an appropriate method of resolving content disputes". Intractable disputes that monopolize a talk page is unhelpful to the project.<p>It appears to me that those users, for whatever reason, are unwilling or unable to resolve this dispute through the usual channels on their own; a MEDCAB case was opened in January and closed in March, but then the dispute flared up again; there was apparently an attempt at an RFC, but that seems to have gone nowhere, either. As Sandstein and 2over0 observed, there is a need for content-focused DR, but I don't think telling them to pursue that and then leaving them to their own devices is a good option here. These are experienced editors, who know all about DR; there's no reason to believe that they would miraculously find a way to resolve this dispute when they have failed to do so in more than six months.<p>I propose, therefore, that we enact the following discretionary sanction, which I believe to be "reasonably necessary to ensure the proper collegial editing of these articles and the smooth functioning of the project":
:#Within 15 days after the sanction is imposed, the four users at issue (Imalbornoz, Wee Curry Monster, Pfainuk, and Richard Keatinge) must either:
:#*agree to a compromise wording with respect to the dispute at issue, which will be binding upon them, unless and until a community consensus decides otherwise; or
:#*submit the dispute to a binding content RFC, which is to be supervised by an uninvolved administrator (to avoid issues like [[Talk:Gibraltar/Archive 23#RFC restart]]); the outcome of the RFC will be binding upon them, unless and until a community consensus decides otherwise.
:#Any of the four users who fails to comply with #1 will be topic banned from [[Gibraltar]], and all related articles, discussions and other content, broadly construed across all namespaces, until such time they comply with #1.
:I think this is a fairly novel approach, but it's the best I could think of under the circumstances. Comments are welcome. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 08:35, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
::I agree with this analysis. The proposal is novel, but might be worth a try. Have the other editors been previously warned of sanctions and notified about this thread?
::If we want to do this, we might want to tighten it as follows: All four are banned right now from the [[Gibraltar]] article and its talk page (except for any RfCs) until (A) an administrator has closed an RfC as establishing a community consensus about the wording that is to be used, and (B) the banned editor has agreed to abide by that consensus by (B1) not making changes contrary to it or (B2) not trying to change the consensus by any method other than another RfC in no earlier than one year. This would reduce the scope for wikilawyering ("yes I agreed to the proposal!" "no you did not!" "It's their responsibility to start the RfC, not mine!" etc.). <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<font style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">'''&nbsp;Sandstein&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span></small> 10:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Technically, the idea is that the instruction in #1 (either compromise or go RFC) would be the requisite warning and "specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines". If any of the four fail to comply with it, then the sanction (a page/topic ban) can follow. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 14:22, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
:::: Three of the editors concerned have commented here, and Wee Curry Monster was notified by the filer. I have added Vassyana's formal notifications to the log. Vassyana's old statement certainly indicates that requiring rather than requesting content-DR is a good idea, and this focuses the attention where it belongs without closing off the article to any other interested editors. It might also be a good idea to limit the involved editors' comments to the RfC to prevent it from becoming just another section where the same people make the same points at each other, as is too often the case with RfCs. - [[User talk:2over0|2/0]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/2over0|cont.]])</small> 16:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
:::::I support the idea of T. Canens that the four editors should be required to join in a binding content RfC if they want to continue to edit the article. While I could accept T. Canens' version, Sandstein's version sounds more enforceable. Since the dispute over [[Gibraltar]] has been running for so long, I don't think it is excessive to place the topic bans at once and then have them be lifted as a consequence of good-faith participation in the RfC. Anyone who is still hoping that lesser measures will suffice should take a look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=402600644#Wee_Curry_Monster the very thorough analysis by Vassyana] in the December 2010 AE request. The 23 archives at [[Talk:Gibraltar]] show that national disputes about the content of that page have been going on since 2005. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 01:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


:{{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}},{{u|Seraphimblade}} Understood, regarding what constitutes reverting. I'll be mindful of that in the future. Regarding the user talk page thing, it was BilledMammal that came to my talk page, where I responded and attempted to reach a consensus. In the future, I'll redirect such talks to the article talk page. I should have started a talk there anyway before edits 2 and 3.
== JonathanGo ==


====Statement by (username)====
{{hat|blocked 48 hours for 1RR}}
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


===Request concerning JonathanGo===
===Result concerning Entropyandvodka===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User talk:Nableezy|Nableezy]] 12:27, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*The self-revert remedied the 1RR violation, and their revert back to their preferred version after 24 hours wasn't great, but was not a 1RR violation. Is there a pattern of 1RR gaming, or just this single example? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:30, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
*:{{u|Entropyandvodka}}, those were reverts. Just because you're not using undo, rollback, or a tool like twinkle doesn't mean that modifying the same piece with a slight rewording isn't reverting. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 13:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
*If this is just a single instance, I would be okay with a logged warning, including a reminder that 1RR is not an entitlement to do another revert at 24 hours and 1 minute from the first. Entropyandvodka, if someone objects to an edit you made, go to the article talk page (''not a user talk page''), find out why they objected, discuss it with anyone else who participates, and see, by suggesting stuff on talk, if you can address those concerns. If you come to an impasse, [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]] is available at that point. But yes, tweaking your edit a little bit and making it again still is reverting, if the edit is still substantially similar to the last one. We have to treat it that way; otherwise there would be no end of gaming with that. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
*:I'm fine with a logged warning as well, now that 1RR and what a revert is has been clarified. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 14:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)


==Petextrodon==
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|JonathanGo}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Request concerning Petextrodon===
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction]]
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Cossde}} 13:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Petextrodon}}<p>{{ds/log|Petextrodon}}</p>
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
Violated the 1RR on Palestinian people
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_people&diff=425673681&oldid=425643482 15:21, 24 April 2011] 1st revert
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_people&diff=425683613&oldid=425681383 16:31, 24 April 2011] 2nd revert
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_people&diff=425800502&oldid=425788624 10:09, 25 April 2011] 3rd revert
Violated the 1RR on [[Palestinian nationalism]]
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_nationalism&diff=425675907&oldid=425299244 15:37, 24 April 2011] 1st revert
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_nationalism&diff=425800681&oldid=425699616 10:11, 25 April 2011] 2nd revert

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JonathanGo&diff=425276413&oldid=425238158 22 April] of 1RR by {{user|Nableezy}}
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JonathanGo&diff=425685910&oldid=425332678 24 April] by {{user|Malik Shabazz}}

;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->
Block or topic ban
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->
This account was registered in late January, though it only made 2 edits prior to April 19. Since then, the account has almost solely been focused on repeatedly adding unrelated material taken from another article into these two articles. The user has been notified of the 1RR multiple times and continues to repeatedly revert multiple users to attempt to force in this content.
:The user acknowledged reading the first notification of the 1RR [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JonathanGo&diff=425238158&oldid=425236565 here]. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 12:51, 25 April 2011 (UTC)</font></small>
:24 hours is still, as far as I recall, 24 hours. All of the reverts listed above are within the same day. A cursory look by a reviewing admin will show that all of these edits meet the definition of revert listed at [[WP:EW]]. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 16:52, 25 April 2011 (UTC)</font></small>
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JonathanGo&diff=425813753&oldid=425685910 Notified]

===Discussion concerning JonathanGo===

====Statement by JonathanGo====

this account was active since January and it's not a fake account.
was trying to edit 2 aricles about Palestinian issues. the articles are used as a political propaganda withholding much relevant information concerning palestinian history, and on the other hand relying on fictional assumptions and beliefs.

about the restrictions. at first I was not aware of these restrictions.
the second time I made an edit and when I came beck to the site I didn't see it on the history. so i re edited the article , I didn't revert it.
in any case I didn't abused the editing rights. and as you can see I was trying to explain the necessity of the new sections on the conversations.
this looks like an organized, method of using the wikipedia as a political propaganda mean and spreading fictional information rather then facts, especially referring to Palestinian nationalism formation date, the editors are trying to promote a fictional theories about ancient as possible, Palestinian nationality establishment .--Jonathango 12:40, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

As you can clearly see. Regarding [[Palestinian people]] , I made only 2 reverts on 24 April. The third revert that mr. nableezy regards to, is the same one like 2nd revert, he just copied it twice.I hope it was an unintentional mistake.
As I stated, the second revert was made by mistake since I didn't see the edit history when I went beck to the page so I just put it beck again and didn't use the "undo".
About [[Palestinian nationalism]] – as you may have noticed the reverts took place in different days. As I understand it 1RR rule means that one revert allowed per day. And please correct me if I'm wrong.
this looks like an attempt to shut down any opposition view and I hope you are not going to give it a hand.--Jonathango 13:03, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

after my above remarks mr. nableezy edited his third time stamp Regarding [[Palestinian people]]. you can see it's on 25 of April - and that's a new day.
additionally , the first edit that mr. nableezy refers to as an "undo", is in fact not a revert at all but a completely new edit , which is a significant shortening of previews section that I edited as a result of the discussion we had as you can see in this article.
the same is applied to the editing were done on [[Palestinian nationalism]]. the first edit that mr. Nableezy refers to of 24 April is not an Undo but a new edit , which is a significant shortening of previews section that I edited as a result of the discussion we had as you can see in this article and the second edit was made only at 25 April.--Jonathango 16:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning JonathanGo ====
I suggest a topic ban or indef block for this [[WP:SPA]]. We don't need [http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/23/2633944.htm this approach] to I-P topics in Wikipedia. [[User:Tijfo098|Tijfo098]] ([[User talk:Tijfo098|talk]]) 12:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

If someone wants to read a less firebrand account of this issue, [[Tom Segev]]'s article in NYT is [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/books/review/Segev-t.html available]. [[User:Tijfo098|Tijfo098]] ([[User talk:Tijfo098|talk]]) 12:34, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The fact that JonathanGo edit wars to keep that huge section full of who said what and what date at [[Palestinian people]] instead of (say) [[History of the Palestinian people]] or more appropriately at [[Mohammad Amin al-Husayni]] is [[User:Ravpapa/Tilt#Many_is_better|tell-tale sign]] why he is editing here. The section at [[Palestinian people]] on al-Husayni, which JonathanGo edit wars to keep intact, is ''much'' longer than the one for 1948-1967, and slightly longer than the one called "1967 to the present" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_people&diff=425673681&oldid=425643482] (despite the edit summary). Nuthin' much of note happened since the Palestinians were all Nazi collaborators, I guess... [[User:Tijfo098|Tijfo098]] ([[User talk:Tijfo098|talk]]) 13:14, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

===Result concerning JonathanGo===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*This looks to be a 1RR violation on both [[Palestinian people]] and [[Palestinian nationalism]]. The user has clearly been aware of the 1RR restriction since 21 April, and all the reverts listed in this report happened after that. He is trying to insert material about negotiations with Nazis during WW2 into both articles, and his idea has not yet attracted any support from other editors. I suggest a three-day block for the 1RR violation and a warning of discretionary sanctions under [[WP:ARBPIA]] using the {{tl|uw-sanctions}} template. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 17:20, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:: I went with 48 instead of 72 in recognition that there is at least some participation at the talkpage, but left the full uw-sanctions template and a warning that continuing to add substantially the same material without consensus could lead to a much longer block. The 1RR warning linked above quite clearly and properly stated "24 hours" rather than the more ambiguous "day", and I find the statement about calendar days disingenuous at best. - [[User talk:2over0|2/0]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/2over0|cont.]])</small> 16:17, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== Paul Bedson ==
{{hat|Closed. Paul Bedson warned of ARBPS sanctions [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 05:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)}}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''

===Request concerning Paul Bedson===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : - [[User talk:2over0|2/0]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/2over0|cont.]])</small> 06:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Paul Bedson}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions]]
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Talk:Measuring_rod&oldid=425492203 Talk:Measuring rod]: pretty much the entirety of the discussion page after the first section is [[WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT]] and [[WP:FRINGE|fringe sources]] from Paul Bedson while other editors cite more reliable and modern sources.
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMeasuring_rod&action=historysubmit&diff=424881399&oldid=424877794 04-19] "mindlessly deleting ... even if that is beyond you" (intervening edits in the link are all Paul Bedson over a period of about twenty minutes)
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APaul_Bedson&action=historysubmit&diff=424932544&oldid=424914240 04-19]: extensive post on his own talkpage tying everything together. This link is mainly given for background of the dispute, though [[WP:NOTTRUTH]] applies and it does include "how it can be labelled fringe, Doug only knows. Perhaps he wants to keep it secret."
# 04-22: introduces [[WP:OR|original research]] and [[WP:SYNTH|synthesis]] to [[Metrological Relief]], an Ancient Greek relief - [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Metrological_Relief&diff=425434712&oldid=425434096], [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Metrological_Relief&diff=425429655&oldid=425429021] (removed by other editors [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Metrological_Relief&diff=425517327&oldid=425516473 here] and [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Metrological_Relief&diff=425456618&oldid=425443530 here]
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Wandlebury-Hatfield_Loxodrome&diff=416902877&oldid=416863974 03-03] used a source without reading it (read the two comments preceding the one in the diff as well)
# Substantially copied an article during the abovelinked AfD: compare [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&action=submit] with [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wandlebury_Enigma&oldid=417866975]
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425440495&oldid=425440416 04-22] deletes [[WP:NPOV|necessary context]] from lead of a fringe article; unmarked revert of [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425422309&oldid=425421883]
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=424914482&oldid=424913494 04-19], removed as "[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425120347&oldid=425069922 claim not supported by sources]"
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=424873718&oldid=424873200 04-19] adds fringe assertion as statement of fact ([[WP:PSCI]]: ''Any inclusion of pseudoscientific views should be proportionate with the scientific view. Likewise, the pseudoscientific view should be clearly described as such.''); Paul Bedson sourced this sentence a few minutes later to Sacred Geometry: Deciphering the Code (ISBN 9781402765827), see next diff
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=424875242&oldid=424873934 04-19] adds more fringe sources without necessary context; removed by other editors: [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=prev&oldid=425198682], [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425205590&oldid=425205554], [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425206717&oldid=425206479], [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425207152&oldid=425206717]
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425376917&oldid=425350123 04-22] misuse of sources (see [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425377722&oldid=425377444] and [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425378215&oldid=425377722]
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425330916&oldid=425329170 04-22] adds [[WP:IRS|unreliable source]]: http://www.cosmic-mindreach.com/ (removed by another editor [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=425350123&oldid=425349844 here])
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425550762&oldid=425479250 04-23] adds a [[WP:SPS|self-published source]] (''Thoth, Architect of the Universe'', ISBN 9781905815173), a letter to the editor, and [[WP:SYNTH|original synthesis]] (removed [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425552324&oldid=425551994], [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425552714&oldid=425552324], and [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425553261&oldid=425552714]
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425334083&oldid=425332304 04-22] edit summary: ''More reliable sources to stop deletion of mathematical truth based petty and personal opinions about sources''; removed by another editor as ''[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425479250&oldid=425477828 rm as unreliable source/fringe/coatrack see talk page]''; [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Talk:Measuring_rod&oldid=425492203#Remen_and_Royal_Cubit link] to referenced talkpage discussion
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425083198&oldid=425072516 04-20] adds an unsourced comment (removed by another editor [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Measuring_rod&diff=425141129&oldid=425141009 here])


#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1220924734 26 April 2024] use of a primary source that has been established as a pro-rebel.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1220914855 26 April 2024] use of a primary source
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221268007 28 April 2024] use of single source the has [[WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS]] under [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]] circumstances.
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Paul_Bedson&diff=351365012&oldid=351154748 2010-03-22] extensive introduction by {{User|Dougweller}} to the [[WP:FRINGE]] guideline and associated policies, about a month after Paul Bedson started editing (Dougweller is an involved editor here, so this does not meet the warning requirement of ARBPS)
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Paul_Bedson&diff=424335615&oldid=424287598 04-16] 3RR and civility warnings from me
# [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Paul_Bedson&diff=424898503&oldid=424896374 04-19] 3RR warning from Dougweller
# Request from {{user|Hyperdoctor Phrogghrus}} (04-23): ''Look, you really need to slow down. You're adding references at a tremendous rate and obviously not checking them. I've just seen a reference that turns out to be a Letter to the Editor in New Scientist, a self-published book, a reference that explicitly contradicts the text you added ...''

;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
Notifications of the provisions of ARBPS, to be logged at that case page, and advice on the appropriate use of reliable sources and maintaining a collaborative and civil attitude.
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
This page as seen weeks of [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] and possible [[WP:NAT]] editing, with controversial content been added with single sources that are most cases primary sources that have clear conflict of intrests and even been labled "pro-rebal". Some other sources with [[WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS]], that makes the content appear [[WP:OR]]. Request for more citations per [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]] and [[WP:CHALLENGE]] have been refused. Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->
To provide context that the "[[Megalithic Yard]]" is not considered credible by archeologists (and hence is governed by the [[WP:FRINGE]] guideline), Dougweller added a quote to [[Talk:Megalithic Yard]] citing [http://www.jstor.org/pss/2348807 Archeostatistics: old statistics in ancient contexts] (NRJ Fieller [[Journal of the Royal Statistical Society#Journal of the Royal Statistical Society, Series D (The Statistician)|Journal of the Royal Statistical Society. Series D (The Statistician)]], 1993 42, 279&ndash;295): "It is a sad fact that the megalithic yard hypothesis itself is of negligible interest to archaeologists. From what is known of the development and structure of prehistoric societies over the areas and time spans involved in the construction of the circles, the hypothesis that a strict mensuration system, based on a common 'brass-edged whalebone yardstick', was in widespread use is not worth entertaining. It belongs to the semi-mystical fringe of archaeology concerned with ley lines, Atlantis and the like."


Following attempts for dispute resolution have been tried:
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Paul_Bedson&diff=425966279&oldid=425696870]
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces#Request_for_multiple_citations
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces#NESOHR
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces#Adding_single_sourced_content


In response to the comments made here, my stand is that if the admins here feel that a topic band for 30 days or one year to myself or to Petextrodon or both, so be it. However, I request that my band would be limited to Sri Lankan Civil War related topics since my edits on broader Sri Lankan topics have not been hot topics and I have been contributing for over an decade.


In the matter at hand I would request admin intervention to review the content dispute. I have raised this issue in RSN ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_431]) and there has been no result. Clearly the article in question does not meet WP standards of [[WP:NPOV]] and I request an independent review, mainly regarding the poor sourcing and use of primary sources. In another RSN ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_425#International_Truth_and_Justice_Project]) it was mentioned that ''"As with other advocacy groups… caution is needed. Statements by advocacy groups are WP:PRIMARY sources… certainly reliable for verifying that they take a given stance on an issue, but not necessarily de-facto reliable for the accuracy of the background material used to take that stance."'' It is vital that this takes place now due to the [[WP:BATTLE]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221851584], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221851453], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221842369], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221834414], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221339905]) that’s is taking place regarding topics associated with the Sri Lankan Civil War, with a clear group of editors including Pharaoh of the Wizards editing on one side of this battle ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ravana009&diff=prev&oldid=1221851339], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=1221851398]). I am not surpised to see his support of Petextrodon, an editor who has no content contribution beyound Sri Lankan Civil War topics. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 14:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
* (@ScottishFinnishRadish) RFCs on related topics have seen vote stacking. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 14:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 16:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</small>
===Discussion concerning Paul Bedson===

====Statement by Paul Bedson====
This seems to be a direct attempt to damage mankind by hindering research into the central Levantine archaeological site of the neolithic revoluiton in [[Aaiha]].

It seems based on this spiteful editor trying to promote his own pseudoscience opinions that vertical standing stones in the middle of England were positioned by Glaciers tens of thousands of years ago.

It is also an attempt to prevent coverage notable topics that has reduced coverage on Wikipedia on valid metrological and archaeological topics due to people's personal interpretations either not understood, or ignored and prejudiced against to protect personal reputations. If there has been some civility breaches, it is normally to do with wild and crazy POV pushing suggestions like the megalith-building-glaciers and those suggesting the pyramids were surveyed with a desk ruler.

This type of behaviour has led to other websites such at The [[Megalithic Portal]], Quantitative Archaeology Wikipedia[http://wiki.iosa.it/] and Archaeowiki [http://www.archaeowiki.org] providing far better academic coverage of valid topics way ahead of Wikipedia. Due to certain editors failure to understand the relatively easy and widely covered statistical analysis [http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146413596] that has caused the unit in question to reach the mainstream with such an overwhelming number of sources including other archaeological encyclopedias.
{{cite book|author=Barbara Ann Kipfer|title=Encyclopedic dictionary of archaeology|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=XneTstDbcC0C&pg=PA344|accessdate=23 April 2011|year=2000|publisher=Springer|isbn=9780306461583|pages=344–}}

If some sources have been debated, this is purely due to the massive and overwhelming number that represent the mainstream opinions on this outrageously uncovered topic.

I certainly won't resort to such petty and vengeful action as this editor when he deleted my posts and replaced with barmy glacier theories. I have no interest in covering such madness, or ley lines or atlantis for that matter. So I'll proceed to ignore this. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml; font-family: Verdana;">[[User:Paul Bedson|<span style="color:Indigo">Paul Bedson</span>]] ❉[[User talk:Paul Bedson|<span style="color:FireBrick">talk</span>]]❉</span> 12:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I would add that the entire basis for the subject area in question has no evidence whatsoever and is labelled with "Citation needed" on [[Alexander Thom]]'s page "mainstream science which generally labels it as [[pseudoscience]]{{Citation needed|date=January 2010}}."

In response to Doug Weller's completely libellous remarks -
*1. I have never argued Sumerians or anyone built stonehenge or avebury - complete rubbish! I suggested well sourced material that [[Beaker People]] made the [[Dalmore bone]] and even this was immediately deleted! I am here because O'Brien first noticed the most important archaeological site on the planet, that could heavily revise our views on the [[neolithic revolution]] and is about to be destroyed. There are plenty of his theories that I have never represented here, this includes any speculations about "Shining Ones"
*2. John Neal's book "All Done With Mirrors" is one of the most comprehensive and up to date reviews of ancient metrology and is prominently featured with it's own section in the pseudoscientific metrology page, yet Doug deleted this as unreliable without deleting from pseudoscientific metrology. This is the one I commented on as improving the neutrality in my edit summary NOT "Celtic New Zealand".
*3. I have never run a tour to [[Aaiha]], I have expended all my monetary resources in order to survey the [[tell]] where I recovered [[lime plaster]] from the surface similar to [[White Ware]] and saw the northwestern [[chasm]] that [[Edward Robinson]] didn't visit, which [[Josephus]] claimed was the source of the [[Jordan]] (and met Lebanese Red Cross who put red dye down it similar to his story of the "Chaff of Phiala"). I have also see the building work about to demolish the principle tell mound (similar to the hill at [[Tell Marj]]) and that is why I am writing here. To get archaeologists like Doug to pay attention and go survey, research and save that [[archaeological]] site for [[world heritage]].

If you have archaeological training (and that goes for you too ResidentAnthropologist), shame on you for seeing the evidence [http://www.paygan.com/eden/maps.html] and sitting on your hands, or supporting this action. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml; font-family: Verdana;">[[User:Paul Bedson|<span style="color:Indigo">Paul Bedson</span>]] ❉[[User talk:Paul Bedson|<span style="color:FireBrick">talk</span>]]❉</span> 17:59, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

: I thought I'd add that now Doug has cleared up the John Neal issue on Pseudoscientific Metrology that led me to believe the source was notable, admitted that I do NOT run tours to [[Aaiha plain]] yet, understands I fund my research through working 48 hour weeks in a call centre and only support that specific view of O'Briens and not the majority, I withdraw the libellous allegation above. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml; font-family: Verdana;">[[User:Paul Bedson|<span style="color:Indigo">Paul Bedson</span>]] ❉[[User talk:Paul Bedson|<span style="color:FireBrick">talk</span>]]❉</span> 05:24, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning Paul Bedson ====
[[WP:2LAW|Welcome to Wikipedia]]. [[User:Tijfo098|Tijfo098]] ([[User talk:Tijfo098|talk]]) 15:17, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

(After reading [[Talk:Measuring_rod]] at several edits at [[Megalithic_Yard]]) It looks like Paul Bedson is trying to insert some fringe ideas into the articles, as if they were accepted scientific ideas, using outdated sources, refusing to consider more modern sources, and sourcing conclusions to sources that don't make those conclusions. Also, a fair amount of original research. Also, he seems to ignore any source that doesn't agree with his own ideas, and pushes any source that is in agreement with his ideas, independently of how good they are, as Tijfo098 points out above. Also, ending the patience of editors who make good edits and who have to clean up after him. He might cause knowledgeable editors to burn out and abandon topics where their work is necessary.

TL;DR: Paul Bedson is fringe POV-pushing. He needs a topic ban from the topic of "measuring-related topics in antiquity", broadly interpreted. --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 16:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

:Paul Bedson is open about the fact that he is here to promote the ideas of [[Christian O'Brien]] who argues that the Sumerians built Stonehenge, Avebury, etc. Alongside this he is adding material about or creating articles about the alleged [[Megalithic Yard]] (generally if not always without noting that it is disputed) and has been using DYK to further these claims. He is aware of the difference between mainstream and fringe sources and our policy on reliable sources, including that to do with self-published books. Yet he continues to add sources such as a self-published [http://www.celticnz.co.nz/inde.html] book on 'Celtic New Zealand' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=prev&oldid=425456390] which is both far out fringe as well as SPS (added before this case) and today (to make it more neutral according to his edit summary) another one [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=426139311&oldid=426128533] which is published by the author [http://www.secretacademy.com/]. He has done some decent non-fringe work (although I haven't checked his sources and sometimes his sources haven't actually said what he thought they did) in areas related to where he thinks Eden was found by O'Brien (he also runs tours in those areas to fund research into the ideas he supports - he's been open about this also). It isn't just measuring related, it's also alignment-related, O'Brien ideas related, etc. I shouldn't have to spend the time I've spent chasing down his sources, trying to make his articles NPOV, making sure DYK isn't used to promote fringe ideas, etc. There are very few editors working in the area of fringe archaeology and yes, it's tiring and discouraging trying to keep this area in line with our policies and guidelines when you have someone like Paul Bedson.
:[[Kharsag]] is the earliest example - it still has O'Brien fringe stuff -based on articles in a local (to Paul I believe) paper by a journalist who is also a fringe writer [http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/spirals.html] - something I discovered while I was making this edit which now makes me doubt it should be used as a source, typical. The original article he created was pure fringe. He's recently created a series of articles which appear to have been created solely to push the Megalithic Yard concept without noting its contentious nature [[Dalgety bone bead]] and [[Patrickholme bone bead]] for instance. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 09:47, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

::DougWeller hits all the issues I really dont have much to add other than I support action here. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] <small>[[User_talk:ResidentAnthropologist|(talk)]]•([[Special:Contributions/ResidentAnthropologist|contribs]])</small> 14:31, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

:::Libellous remarks? I'd appreciate it if you would fully retract that claim. Please read [[WP:NLT]]. I didn't say you argued that the Sumerians etc, I said you supported O'Brien who does make those arguments. Re-read my comment about improving neutrality, it says " today (to make it more neutral according to his edit summary) another one [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Megalithic_Yard&diff=426139311&oldid=426128533] which is published by the author [http://www.secretacademy.com/]." You like it, fine. It's self-published thus not a reliable source for this, and probably should come out of the metrology article. I clearly didn't say you ran a tour to Aiha. As for your complaint about 'Beaker People' in the Dalmore Bone article, I don't know why the editor deleted it but it doesn't look as though he had any interest in fringe content being there or not - that edit is irrelevant to the issues being discussed. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 19:07, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
::::I see you are still calling me a liar over your claim I said you ran a tour to Aiha. Perhaps someone else can find where I made that claim and if they can, I'll amend it. You've now stated for the first time that you don't fully support O'Brien (despite linking in the past to a website that does and that has used your work, and saying you are here to get O'Brien's work better known). Fine, but you are still linking to sites with ideas as fringe as his. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 05:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Citing:<nowiki> ''http://www.paygan.com/eden/maps.html''</nowiki>probably does more to hurt you in this forum than anything Doug or I could really add to the this discussion. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] <small>[[User_talk:ResidentAnthropologist|(talk)]]•([[Special:Contributions/ResidentAnthropologist|contribs]])</small> 19:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

:: As one of the editors involved on the [[Talk:Measuring rod]] discussion, I got tired of dealing with the relentless supply of fringe that was put forth and bowed out. I support action here as well. --[[User:AnnekeBart|AnnekeBart]] ([[User talk:AnnekeBart|talk]]) 01:13, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

===Result concerning Paul Bedson===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
:Support formally notifying Paul Bedson- he is indeed pushing a POV and misusing sources. Would endorse a topic ban fairly swiftly if he fails to clean up his act in this area. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 01:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
*The evidence is persuasive. Since Paul Bedson has not yet been warned under [[WP:ARBPS]] the remedies allowed by that decision can't be imposed yet. Agree with Courcelles that we expect to see a halt to the POV pushing and misuse of sources. A warning using the {{tl|uw-sanctions}} template is justified. A reading of Paul Bedson's comments above does not inspire any confidence in his understanding of Wikipedia policy or his willingness to edit neutrally. He views this AE request as ''"a direct attempt to damage mankind by hindering research into the central Levantine archaeological site of the neolithic revolution in Aaiha."'' There is not much risk that mankind will be damaged due to the actions here, but we can keep inappropriate material from being pushed into the encyclopedia. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 04:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APaul_Bedson&action=historysubmit&diff=426328242&oldid=426270747 Done]. Given the only remedy available to us is a notification, there's little reason to let this grow moss under its feet. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 04:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== Biblbroks ==

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''

===Request concerning Biblbroks===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 20:09, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Biblbroks}}

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions]], particularly article-level 1RR/week imposed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kosovo&oldid=305485237#1RR_for_all_editors here]

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :

#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&diff=424848197&oldid=424826182 19 April] removing iw link, partial revert of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&diff=422825430&oldid=422720353 this] previous edit
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&diff=425483161&oldid=425240970 23 April] commenting out iw link instead of simply removing it, but with same intended effect
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&action=historysubmit&diff=425737244&oldid=425489544] related disruption: replacing several iw links with links to non-existent articles
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&diff=425935712&oldid=425786278 26 April] plain revert to version 2
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&diff=425999823&oldid=425994734 26 April] same edit on several other iw links, in effect now a full revert of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kosovo&diff=422825430&oldid=422720353]

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
Editor has stated himself that he is aware of the 1RR restriction and of the fact that he is risking a ban for his edits [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kosovo&diff=prev&oldid=425089746], hence no further warning necessary

;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
Topic ban on Kosovo

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
The lameness of this conflict over interwiki links probably requires some explanation. Biblbroks' edits are motivated by a desire, driven by a pro-Serbian, anti-Kosovo-independence POV, to de-emphasize or hide references to Kosovo as an independent state from the main [[Kosovo]] article. The topic was recently split into a main [[Kosovo]] article which is nominally about the geographical region, and a [[Republic of Kosovo]] article which is about the partly recognised independent state on its territory. Biblbroks is now fighting to hide even the iw-links to all other wikis that haven't followed this model and are still treating both concepts in a single article. There has been an endless deluge of wikilawyering and [[WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT]] stonewalling about this on the talk page. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 20:09, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biblbroks&diff=426075275&oldid=422751748]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Petextrodon&diff=prev&oldid=1221697850
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


@[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku ]]. [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] and [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] on SL Civil War topics were conducted by Petextrodon, Oz346 and Okiloma in general. These have been evendent in pages: [[List of attacks on civilians attributed to Sri Lankan government forces]], [[Sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka]] where request for use of secendary sources to meet [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]] has been meat by [[WP:BATTLE]]. [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] has taken place in RFCs in [[Talk:Sri Lanka Armed Forces]], [[Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers#Merge_proposal:UN_child_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Haiti]], [[Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom#RFC:_Report_on_1977_anti-Tamil_riots]]. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 12:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
===Discussion concerning Biblbroks===
How about warning Biblbroks that if he continues to remove interwiki links that he will be banned for one year from editing the Kosovo article? [[User:Fred Bauder]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 21:10, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
:There is something wrong with trying to control content on other language Wikipedia's. Their business, their problem. [[User:Fred Bauder]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 21:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
::I can consider myself warned even if the proposal by User:Fred Bauer is withdrawn. And then oblige to WP:1RR for that article if that is what will be imposed as a conclusion. But since this doesn't actually solve the issue, the issue of whether it is the changing of interlanguage that is a problem or the problem is the control of content of other wikipedias, i think either a discussion at the relevant talk page [[Talk:kosovo]] or here should occur. As for me changing the interwikis in the meanwhile, you simply have to choose whether to trust me or not. Best regards, --[[User:Biblbroks|biblbroks]][[User talk:Biblbroks|<span style="font-size:.7em"> (talk)</span>]] 02:22, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Let us continue the discussion at [[Talk:Kosovo]] and see if there is a productive third opinion. You, Biblbroks, go on at great length, which makes it very difficult to get your point, but there was a point to your edits which are under active discussion. [[User:Fred Bauder]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 19:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
::::Sorry for that. I think i was brief here. And i think it was needed to be elaborate there. Regards, --[[User:Biblbroks|biblbroks]][[User talk:Biblbroks|<span style="font-size:.7em"> (talk)</span>]] 22:15, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


====Statement by Biblbroks====
===Discussion concerning Petextrodon===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
Statement (by) --[[User:Biblbroks|biblbroks]][[User talk:Biblbroks|<span style="font-size:.7em"> (talk)</span>]] 20:41, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


====Statement by Petextrodon====
====Comments by others about the request concerning Biblbroks ====
I don't think the issue is truly about the number of citations which is why user Cossde deleted even the content backed by two RS citations, [[Human Rights Watch]] and [[Routledge]] scholarly publication. More crucially, Cossde may be '''guilty of vandalism''' for repeatedly deleting sourced content [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1218331186&oldid=1218191141 1]][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1221313227&oldid=1221270413 2]], since no Wikipedia rule states that a content without more than one RS should be removed. Also, the user is well-aware that [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Sri Lanka Reconciliation/Sources]] classified the [[UTHR]] as RS long ago and recently classified NESOHR as a "Qualified source" that can be cited with attribution. As for [[Frontline (magazine)]], that's a mainstream news magazine that any reasonable editor can see meets the criteria of RS. As for [[Uthayan]] newspaper, I had repeatedly [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1218191038&oldid=1218147667 explained] to this user in the talk page that it was a registered and award-winning Sri Lankan newspaper yet they weren't satisfied by this explanation and refused to explain why they questioned its reliability.


Cossde has a long history of deleting reliably sourced content [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces&diff=439264058&oldid=439092096 1]][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=551985936 2]][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces&diff=1157686361&oldid=1157681492 3]] that are critical of the Sri Lankan government and its armed forces. To me this looks like [[WP:nationalist editing]], especially given the blatant double standards this user has shown regarding the use of sources on multiple occasions:
===== WhiteWriter =====
* Cossde removed content from [[sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka]] by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sexual_violence_against_Tamils_in_Sri_Lanka&diff=1209559144&oldid=1209557207 contesting citation] to the book authored by a prominent Sri Lankan journalist; yet they [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=1209136268&oldid=1209133229 cited the same book] on another article to support their edits.
* Cossde significantly expanded the background section of the [[1977 anti-Tamil pogrom]] by adding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=1208104824&oldid=1207732383 content from a report] published by the Sri Lankan government; yet on the currently disputed article they [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1217907112&oldid=1217901072 contested the reliability] of another report published by the same government.
* Cossde has [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=1207289823&oldid=1206925641 previously cited] UTHR in other articles, but now they are not only questioning its reliability but deleting cited content from it.
They did not address their blatant double standards despite my repeated requests to do so in the talk page. It would appear from this to any reasonable observer that Cossde is more bothered by the nature of the content than the reliability of the sources. I hope the admins review the reporter's own behavior so the vandalism issue can be sorted and I wouldn't have to open a separate enforcement request against this user. --- [[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] ([[User talk:Petextrodon|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


:@[[User:Robert_McClenon|Robert McClenon]], Just to clarify, why should I be punished for contributing to Wikipedia? What rules have I broken? I'm being hounded for my good faith contribution by this user for the past several weeks and not vice versa. But I agree with you on the interaction ban as I have no desire to engage in pointless disputes and edit war with this user. I'm very much capable of reaching amicable compromise with users I disagree with as I indeed have on several occasions with another Sri Lankan user, SinhalaLion. But unfortunately it has not been possible with this user. --- [[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] ([[User talk:Petextrodon|talk]]) 21:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 22:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC) </small>
I would just love to say that during the wast and highly successful split of the article Kosovo into [[Republic of Kosovo]], [[Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija]], and [[Kosovo]], we all had unwritten administrators understanding that 1RR on Kosovo (and all new-old related articles) was temporarily suspended, until stable versions are created. While this edits regarding interwikis where also question of separation and split, it may be understood that that same understanding is under way for this edit too. Nevertheless, per that, and per situation in question, i would propose just a strong warning, as i don't think that situation is that dire that need topic ban. Actually, i think that situation is quite far from that. --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:WhiteWriter |WhiteWriter ]]<sup>[[User talk:WhiteWriter |speaks]]</sup></span> 20:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


====Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards====
===Result concerning Biblbroks===
See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Further there no CT alerts.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 14:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*By a remedy authorized in [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo#Kosovo related articles on Article probation|WP:ARBKOS]], Biblbroks can be banned from all Kosovo-related articles without further ado if the admins deem it necessary. There is no need for a previous official warning by means of the {{tl|uw-sanctions}} template. I hope that Biblbroks will soon add his own response so we can see if he is open to changing his approach to Kosovo-related articles. The 1RR/week restriction on [[Kosovo]] has clearly been violated. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 01:08, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
*There has been more discussion with this editor at [[User talk:Biblbroks]]. Though an apology is good, his admission that he knowingly violated the 1RR rule is puzzling. We need to be assured that he will follow 1RR in the future, will stop adjusting the interwiki links and will stop editing Kosovo-related articles from a nationalist POV. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 13:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
*Biblbroks does not seem to realize that there is any POV problem with his edits. No admin besides FP has spoken up in favor of a topic ban. It may be necessary to close with a {{tl|uw-sanctions}} warning under ARBMAC and a warning of a one-year topic ban from Kosovo-related articles if Biblbroks continues to remove interwiki links or violates the 1RR/week restriction again. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 18:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


Petextrodon is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 21:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
==talknic==
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


====Statement by Bookku (Uninvolved)====
===Request concerning talknic===
I don't have detail background but wondering whether really no scope for [[WP:DDE]] protocol? and any difficulties to go through [[WP:RfC]]s, or RfCs happened but did not mention in above difs? [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku ]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 16:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 16:59, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
* @[[User:Cossde|Cossde]] seem to have complained about [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] at RfCs. I suggest usually link the policy page so other user gets to know which policy you are talking about. Cossde's earlier sentence ".. This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND .." is general in nature, [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] at RfCs statement, too, seem general in nature. If complaint is about Petextrodon a) Need to be clear if Petextrodon too has any role in alleged BATTLEGROUND and VOTESTACKING with specific proof difs. On the other hand if statements are related but general concerns but not related to Petextrodon be clear about that too.

* @[[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] need to note that general WP:ARE custom is "it's about you not about others". Also read [[WP:TLDR#Some quick tips]]. [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku ]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 10:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|talknic}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction]] and [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War&diff=426231507&oldid=426227471 19:38, 27 April 2011] 1st revert
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War&diff=426386360&oldid=426341314 17:12, 28 April 2011] 2nd revert

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Talknic&diff=422077743&oldid=421932885 05:25, 3 April 2011] by {{user|EdJohnston}}

;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->
Block or topic ban.

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->
There are two issues here. First the 1RR violation. Talknic has previously violated 1RR on this article (see my report [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive154#User:Talknic_reported_by_User:No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy_.28Result:_Notified_of_discretionary_sanctions.29]]) for which he received notification of the case. This is the second time within less than a month.

The second issue is that he has been edit warring against consensus on [[1948 Arab–Israeli War]] for the past week+. And when I say against consensus I mean that three different editors reverted him and an additional 5 said they object to his edit on the talk page, while no other editor supported the change he made 6 times in 8 days. The discussion is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War#Arab_Higher_Committee_of_Amin_al-Husayni_was_dismissed_as_Grand_Mufti_of_Jerusalem_by_the_British_in_1937 here], his multiple reverts can be seen on the article [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War&action=history history]. Let me know if diffs are necessary. The discussion and history look self explanatory to me.

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Talknic&diff=prev&oldid=426409823]

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning talknic===


====Statement by talknic====
====Statement by Robert McClenon (another Sri Lanka dispute, another forum)====
I am asking the administrators at this noticeboard to do something, because there are too many disputes between [[User:Cossde]] and [[User:Petextrodon]]. I am ready to provide a list of these disputes again, which I already provided to ArbCom in support of identifying [[Sri Lanka]] as a [[WP:CTOPIC|contentious topic]], and especially the [[Sri Lankan Civil War]], but I know that the administrators here know how to look up the record as well as I do.


[[User:Petextrodon]] alleges that [[User:Cossde]]'s removal of sourced content is [[WP:VAND|vandalism]]. It is not vandalism, and an editor who has been editing Wikipedia long enough to know what is [[WP:VAND|vandalism]] should also know [[WP:NOTVAND|what is not vandalism]], and [[WP:POV|POV]] pushing is not vandalism, although it is often reported as vandalism. However, Petextrodon's complaint should be treated as a counter-complaint of [[WP:DE|disruptive editing]] and [[WP:POV|POV]] pushing by [[User:Cossde]].
Edit warring goes both ways and is started by someone, for a reason.


Something needs to be done to curb these disputes. The obvious, but probably wrong, answer is to impose an [[WP:IBAN|interaction ban]], because these editors '''''do not like each other'''''. The problem is that that will provide a first-mover advantage, and so may actually encourage pre-emptive biased editing. So I recommend that the first step be to [[WP:TBAN|topic-ban]] both of these editors from [[Sri Lanka]] for thirty days to give one or another of the administrators time to review the record in detail and determine which editor is more at fault, and extend the topic-ban to one year, or determine that both editors are at fault, and topic-ban them both for one year.
The reasons for my being reverted have been rather less than substantial. None have challenged the validity of the source. Consensus is by a familiar and predictable rally and seems to be vaguely based on 'I don't like it'. Were there an actual policy based reason other than the blatant misuse of consensus in order to stop information...
[[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 20:00, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
I'll leave the Talk pages to do the rest of the talking. [[User:Talknic|talknic]] ([[User talk:Talknic|talk]]) 17:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


====Comments by others about the request concerning talknic ====
===Result concerning Petextrodon===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*{{tq|Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.}} That isn't what arbitration enforcement is for. Have you opened an RFC on the sourcing disagreement? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 15:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


===Result concerning talknic===
====Clerk notes (Petextrodon)====
* {{u|Petextrodon}}, you are at your word limit. Please do not respond further unless you've trimmed some words or been granted an extension. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 02:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
Blocked 31 hours for the 1RR violation. I'll look into the other aspects of this matter when I get some time. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 20:45, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:58, 4 May 2024

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    Christsos[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Christsos[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Pppery (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Christsos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:ARBPIA4 extended-confirmed restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Created Faiq Al-Mabhouh
    2. Created Ibrahim Biari (deleted by me as G4)
    3. Created Draft:Eyal Shuminov

    All of these are very obviously related to the conflict

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 19:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC) (see the system log linked to above).[reply]
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    User talk:Christsos#Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion


    Discussion concerning Christsos[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Christsos[edit]

    Statement by BilledMammal[edit]

    I see the editor has been inactive as of a few days prior to this report, so I wanted to ask - did anyone try to explain the ECR's to them beyond placing the ARBPIA notification on their talk page? 22:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning Christsos[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Christsos, if you have anything to say, now would be the time. It looks like all of these happened after you were explicitly left a contentious topics notice informing you of the 30/500 restrictions, so can you please explain why you are clearly violating that? I'll give you a short while to explain, but otherwise I'm very much leaning toward a sanction. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:06, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm on the same page. They haven't edited in a couple days so there's no immediate need to step in. We can wait to see if there's a decent response. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Seraphimblade. they're still not around. How do you feel about a logged warning that the next violation will result in a one week block, followed by escalating blocks for further violations? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      ScottishFinnishRadish, I'm not a fan of that, as we'd essentially be tying the hands of future admins as to what to do if the violations continue (if it's a highly technical and probably inadvertent violation, maybe they only want to block for a day, and if it's egregious and obviously intentional, maybe they go right to a month, or even indef if the editor states they intend to keep violating it). I don't think we should predetermine the outcome of future actions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'll buy that, yeah. So a non-specific logged warning? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm good with that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    BilledMammal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Entropyandvodka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    WP:1RR violations and 1RR gaming at Israeli war crimes:

    1. 02:22, 21 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → found that Israel had committed genocide)
    2. 07:05, 21 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → finding reasonable grounds that Israel had committed genocide)
      Was requested to self revert at 07:51, 21 April 2024. Did so at 22:58, 21 April 2024, saying Self reverting per request, as that edit can be considered a revert. Will be putting that material back in later tonight for the same reasons.
    3. 06:18, 22 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → found Israel was committing genocide)

    I don't know whether 06:18 is a second 1RR violation, but it is gaming of 1RR and seeing 1RR as an allowance, rather than a hard limit - reimplementing a reverted violation 23 hours after initially implementing it and seven hours after reverting it is not aligned with our expectations regarding self-reverting violations.

    I requested they re-self-revert; they have refused to do so, and are now arguing that 07:05, 21 April 2024 was not a revert.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 5:10, 13 October 2023 (see the system log linked to above).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    There's a few other recent 1RR violations (for example, 02:21, 9 April 2024 and 16:46, 8 April 2024), but no recent gaming as far as I can tell.

    The issue with this one, though, is how blatant it is; they didn't wait 24 hours to revert back to their preferred version after self-reverting, they waited just seven - if we don't consider the time the between making the violating revert (07:05) and self-reverting the violation (22:58) it means they reverted back to their preferred version just twelve hours after initially reverting to their preferred version.

    If this is permissible, then that means editors who wait 24 hours from their first revert to self revert would be permitted to revert back immediately after self reverting, making the restriction considerably less effective at preventing edit warring and disruption. 22:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    19:31, 28 April 2024

    Discussion concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This is misleading. While edit 1 was a revert, edits 2 and 3 were not reverts, per the guidelines in WP:Reverting. The paragraph in all versions contains the proposition that Francesca Albanese said (or stated) that Israel had committed or was committing genocide, providing her exact quote. Edits 2 and 3 didn't change this. They added additional propositions (she submitted a report, the findings/conclusion of the report). The term 'found' here refers to the findings/conclusions contained in her submitted report, which was passingly referenced in the initial version before BilledMammal's later-reverted edit. BilledMammal's edit essentially just made the same explicit proposition twice in two consecutive sentences. Edits 2 and 3 fall into the classification of examples provided in WP:Reverting as 'A normal change, not a reversion' as they add additional propositions without removing any. Boiling down the propositions in the differences, we have:

    Edit before BilledMammal edit: She found X. She said X

    BilledMammal edit (before the reversion) She said X. She said X.

    Edits 2 and 3 (not reversions) She submitted report X, which found/concluded X. She said X.

    I'd point out briefly here that the initial version, before and after BilledMammal's reverted edit, did warrant revision, as it referred to the findings/conclusion of a report without explicitly mentioning the report. I now think BilledMammal was right to make that initial edit, and I was wrong to simply revert it, as that original form of the sentence with no additional information would go against MOS:SAID. Edit 1, the revert I did make of BilledMammal's edit, failed to address this issue, but the subsequent edits 2 and 3 addressed this, without information/proposition loss. Edit 3 was a slightly clearer version of edit 2.

    After edit 2, in which I first added the additional material, BilledMammal accused me of violating 1RR. I self-reverted when requested to, in the spirit of collaboration, though didn't agree that adding that material constituted a revert, and ultimately added it later in edit 3. All the material is RS-backed, and provides informative and relevant context. If I'm correct that edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reversions, then there's no 1RR violation. If I believed edit 2 or edit 3 constituted a revert, I wouldn't have made either edit.

    On my talk page, I attempted multiple times to engage with BilledMammal about the substance of the issue, sought feedback, asking how BilledMammal wanted to write it to add the additional material. BilledMammal repeatedly refused to engage much about the topic, showed no interest in seeking consensus, instead accusing me of a 1RR violation and demanding I self-revert to BilledMammal's version. BilledMammal then threatened arbitration if I didn't comply. I made a good faith attempt to show to BilledMammal why I believe edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reverts, and offered two more suggestions to reach an inclusive consensus. BilledMammal did not respond to these suggestions.

    ScottishFinnishRadish,Seraphimblade Understood, regarding what constitutes reverting. I'll be mindful of that in the future. Regarding the user talk page thing, it was BilledMammal that came to my talk page, where I responded and attempted to reach a consensus. In the future, I'll redirect such talks to the article talk page. I should have started a talk there anyway before edits 2 and 3.

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • The self-revert remedied the 1RR violation, and their revert back to their preferred version after 24 hours wasn't great, but was not a 1RR violation. Is there a pattern of 1RR gaming, or just this single example? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Entropyandvodka, those were reverts. Just because you're not using undo, rollback, or a tool like twinkle doesn't mean that modifying the same piece with a slight rewording isn't reverting. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • If this is just a single instance, I would be okay with a logged warning, including a reminder that 1RR is not an entitlement to do another revert at 24 hours and 1 minute from the first. Entropyandvodka, if someone objects to an edit you made, go to the article talk page (not a user talk page), find out why they objected, discuss it with anyone else who participates, and see, by suggesting stuff on talk, if you can address those concerns. If you come to an impasse, dispute resolution is available at that point. But yes, tweaking your edit a little bit and making it again still is reverting, if the edit is still substantially similar to the last one. We have to treat it that way; otherwise there would be no end of gaming with that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm fine with a logged warning as well, now that 1RR and what a revert is has been clarified. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Petextrodon[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Cossde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Petextrodon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 26 April 2024 use of a primary source that has been established as a pro-rebel.
    2. 26 April 2024 use of a primary source
    3. 28 April 2024 use of single source the has WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS under WP:EXCEPTIONAL circumstances.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND and possible WP:NAT editing, with controversial content been added with single sources that are most cases primary sources that have clear conflict of intrests and even been labled "pro-rebal". Some other sources with WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS, that makes the content appear WP:OR. Request for more citations per WP:EXCEPTIONAL and WP:CHALLENGE have been refused. Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.

    Following attempts for dispute resolution have been tried:

    In response to the comments made here, my stand is that if the admins here feel that a topic band for 30 days or one year to myself or to Petextrodon or both, so be it. However, I request that my band would be limited to Sri Lankan Civil War related topics since my edits on broader Sri Lankan topics have not been hot topics and I have been contributing for over an decade.

    In the matter at hand I would request admin intervention to review the content dispute. I have raised this issue in RSN ([1]) and there has been no result. Clearly the article in question does not meet WP standards of WP:NPOV and I request an independent review, mainly regarding the poor sourcing and use of primary sources. In another RSN ([2]) it was mentioned that "As with other advocacy groups… caution is needed. Statements by advocacy groups are WP:PRIMARY sources… certainly reliable for verifying that they take a given stance on an issue, but not necessarily de-facto reliable for the accuracy of the background material used to take that stance." It is vital that this takes place now due to the WP:BATTLE ([3], [4], [5], [6], [7]) that’s is taking place regarding topics associated with the Sri Lankan Civil War, with a clear group of editors including Pharaoh of the Wizards editing on one side of this battle ([8], [9]). I am not surpised to see his support of Petextrodon, an editor who has no content contribution beyound Sri Lankan Civil War topics. Cossde (talk) 14:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • (@ScottishFinnishRadish) RFCs on related topics have seen vote stacking. Cossde (talk) 14:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC) Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Petextrodon&diff=prev&oldid=1221697850

    @ Bookku . WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:VOTESTACKING on SL Civil War topics were conducted by Petextrodon, Oz346 and Okiloma in general. These have been evendent in pages: List of attacks on civilians attributed to Sri Lankan government forces, Sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka where request for use of secendary sources to meet WP:EXCEPTIONAL has been meat by WP:BATTLE. WP:VOTESTACKING has taken place in RFCs in Talk:Sri Lanka Armed Forces, Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers#Merge_proposal:UN_child_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Haiti, Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom#RFC:_Report_on_1977_anti-Tamil_riots. Cossde (talk) 12:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Discussion concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Petextrodon[edit]

    I don't think the issue is truly about the number of citations which is why user Cossde deleted even the content backed by two RS citations, Human Rights Watch and Routledge scholarly publication. More crucially, Cossde may be guilty of vandalism for repeatedly deleting sourced content [1][2], since no Wikipedia rule states that a content without more than one RS should be removed. Also, the user is well-aware that Wikipedia:WikiProject Sri Lanka Reconciliation/Sources classified the UTHR as RS long ago and recently classified NESOHR as a "Qualified source" that can be cited with attribution. As for Frontline (magazine), that's a mainstream news magazine that any reasonable editor can see meets the criteria of RS. As for Uthayan newspaper, I had repeatedly explained to this user in the talk page that it was a registered and award-winning Sri Lankan newspaper yet they weren't satisfied by this explanation and refused to explain why they questioned its reliability.

    Cossde has a long history of deleting reliably sourced content [1][2][3] that are critical of the Sri Lankan government and its armed forces. To me this looks like WP:nationalist editing, especially given the blatant double standards this user has shown regarding the use of sources on multiple occasions:

    They did not address their blatant double standards despite my repeated requests to do so in the talk page. It would appear from this to any reasonable observer that Cossde is more bothered by the nature of the content than the reliability of the sources. I hope the admins review the reporter's own behavior so the vandalism issue can be sorted and I wouldn't have to open a separate enforcement request against this user. --- Petextrodon (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Robert McClenon, Just to clarify, why should I be punished for contributing to Wikipedia? What rules have I broken? I'm being hounded for my good faith contribution by this user for the past several weeks and not vice versa. But I agree with you on the interaction ban as I have no desire to engage in pointless disputes and edit war with this user. I'm very much capable of reaching amicable compromise with users I disagree with as I indeed have on several occasions with another Sri Lankan user, SinhalaLion. But unfortunately it has not been possible with this user. --- Petextrodon (talk) 21:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC) Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC) [reply]

    Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards[edit]

    See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Further there no CT alerts.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Petextrodon is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Bookku (Uninvolved)[edit]

    I don't have detail background but wondering whether really no scope for WP:DDE protocol? and any difficulties to go through WP:RfCs, or RfCs happened but did not mention in above difs? Bookku (talk) 16:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • @Cossde seem to have complained about WP:VOTESTACKING at RfCs. I suggest usually link the policy page so other user gets to know which policy you are talking about. Cossde's earlier sentence ".. This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND .." is general in nature, WP:VOTESTACKING at RfCs statement, too, seem general in nature. If complaint is about Petextrodon a) Need to be clear if Petextrodon too has any role in alleged BATTLEGROUND and VOTESTACKING with specific proof difs. On the other hand if statements are related but general concerns but not related to Petextrodon be clear about that too.
    • @Petextrodon need to note that general WP:ARE custom is "it's about you not about others". Also read WP:TLDR#Some quick tips. Bookku (talk) 10:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Robert McClenon (another Sri Lanka dispute, another forum)[edit]

    I am asking the administrators at this noticeboard to do something, because there are too many disputes between User:Cossde and User:Petextrodon. I am ready to provide a list of these disputes again, which I already provided to ArbCom in support of identifying Sri Lanka as a contentious topic, and especially the Sri Lankan Civil War, but I know that the administrators here know how to look up the record as well as I do.

    User:Petextrodon alleges that User:Cossde's removal of sourced content is vandalism. It is not vandalism, and an editor who has been editing Wikipedia long enough to know what is vandalism should also know what is not vandalism, and POV pushing is not vandalism, although it is often reported as vandalism. However, Petextrodon's complaint should be treated as a counter-complaint of disruptive editing and POV pushing by User:Cossde.

    Something needs to be done to curb these disputes. The obvious, but probably wrong, answer is to impose an interaction ban, because these editors do not like each other. The problem is that that will provide a first-mover advantage, and so may actually encourage pre-emptive biased editing. So I recommend that the first step be to topic-ban both of these editors from Sri Lanka for thirty days to give one or another of the administrators time to review the record in detail and determine which editor is more at fault, and extend the topic-ban to one year, or determine that both editors are at fault, and topic-ban them both for one year. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:00, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile. That isn't what arbitration enforcement is for. Have you opened an RFC on the sourcing disagreement? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Clerk notes (Petextrodon)[edit]