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==Christsos==
== Israel/Palestine articles generally ==
{{hat|{{u|Christsos}} is formally warned to adhere to the 30/500 restrictions in the ARBPIA area, and that further violations will result in sanction. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:41, 8 May 2024 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Christsos===
{{Ambox|type=notice|text=I have moved this discussion to a subpage, at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Arab-Israeli conflict]], because the discussion is becoming lengthy—and therefore difficult to navigate. Participation is still welcome on that subpage. [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 15:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)}}
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Pppery}} 04:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
<!-- [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 11:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC) --><!--Template:hes-->


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Christsos}}<p>{{ds/log|Christsos}}</p>
== GoodDay ==


{{hat|User:GoodDay formally warned for breaching [[WP:Editwar]], no further action taken as GoodDay recognizes his mistake--[[User:Cailil|<font color="#999999" size="2">'''Cailil'''</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Cailil|<font color="#999999">'''talk'''</font>]]</sup> 15:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)}}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''

===Request concerning GoodDay===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 20:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|GoodDay}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case]]
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA4]] extended-confirmed restriction
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Faiq_Al-Mabhouh&diff=1220104830 Created] [[Faiq Al-Mabhouh]]
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Northern_Ireland&diff=429397734&oldid=429396033 16 May 2011] Reverting "Northern Ireland is a [[Countries of the United Kingdom|constituent country]] of the [[United Kingdom]]." to "Northern Ireland ({{lang-ga|Tuaisceart Éireann}}, [[Ulster Scots dialects|Ulster Scots]]: ''Norlin Airlann'') is one of the [[Countries of the United Kingdom|four countries]] of the [[United Kingdom]]." 1st revert
# Created [[Ibrahim Biari]] (deleted by me as G4)
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Northern_Ireland&diff=next&oldid=429404673 16 May 2011] Reverting "Northern Ireland is a [[Countries of the United Kingdom|constituent country]] of the [[United Kingdom]]." to "Northern Ireland ({{lang-ga|Tuaisceart Éireann}}, [[Ulster Scots dialects|Ulster Scots]]: ''Norlin Airlann'') is one of the [[Countries of the United Kingdom|four countries]] of the [[United Kingdom]]." 2nd revert, breaking 1RR restriction: ("All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under '''[[WP:1RR]]''' (one [[WP:revert|revert]] per editor per article ''per 24 hour period''). When in doubt, assume it is related."
# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Eyal_Shuminov&diff=1220061045 Created] [[Draft:Eyal Shuminov]]
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Northern_Ireland&diff=next&oldid=429428124 16 May 2011] Reverting "Northern Ireland is a [[Countries of the United Kingdom|constituent country]] of the [[United Kingdom]]." to "Northern Ireland ({{lang-ga|Tuaisceart Éireann}}, [[Ulster Scots dialects|Ulster Scots]]: ''Norlin Airlann'') is one of the [[Countries of the United Kingdom|four countries]] of the [[United Kingdom]]." 3rd revert, breaking 1RR restriction: ("All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under'''[[WP:1RR]]''' (one [[WP:revert|revert]] per editor per article ''per 24 hour period''). When in doubt, assume it is related."


All of these are very obviously related to the conflict
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoodDay&diff=429430219&oldid=429413378 16 May 2011] by {{user|Mo ainm}}


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
;Enforcement action requested [[WP:BAN|topic ban]]:
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Christsos&diff=prev&oldid=1219933421 19:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)] (see the system log linked to above).
The user GoodDay has broken sanctions on an article relating to The Troubles and should be topic banned from those articles. The Troubles are defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland.
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->
The user GoodDay reverted three times within 24 hours on the article [[Northern Ireland]], in breach of '''[[WP:1RR]]''' restrictions placed on all articles by Arbcom at [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case]] related to The Troubles, which says "All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under '''[[WP:1RR]]''' (one [[WP:revert|revert]] per editor per article ''per 24 hour period''). When in doubt, assume it is related."


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Additionally, the user is a persistent low level disruptive editor. Numerous requests to edit constructively appear regularly on their Talkpage. There seems to be no awareness that their opinion should be supported by verifiable, reliable sources. Their heavy involvement in sensitive, delicate areas does not seem to be accompanied by sensitive, delicate editing e.g. despite having an extensive knowledge of [[WP:BISE]] and [[WP:BITASK]] they added "British Isles" to an article [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_II&diff=prev&oldid=428614771 here] directly contradicting their statements [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force&diff=427611172&oldid=427610557 here], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force&diff=next&oldid=427614174 here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force&diff=next&oldid=427645565 here] at [[Wikipedia talk:British Isles Terminology task force|BITASK]]. Consequently, an extension to the topic ban should be considered to include any British related issues.
<!-- Add any further comment here -->

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoodDay&diff=429447401&oldid=429445870] :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
[[User talk:Christsos#Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion]]


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning GoodDay===
===Discussion concerning Christsos===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by GoodDay====
====Statement by Christsos====
I messed up 'big time' on this article, even though I was trying to restore the status-quo version of that article's intro. A version which 'ironically' I oppose. I plumb forgot about the 1RR restriction on the article-in-question & so I should be blocked. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 20:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


====Statement by BilledMammal====
BTW, the ''"threat"'' that Daicaregos mentions in his 22:52 post, was 'in fact' a typo, which I (moments later) fixed. Therefore, there was/is ''no threat''. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 04:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
I see the editor has been inactive as of a few days prior to this report, so I wanted to ask - did anyone try to explain the ECR's to them beyond placing the ARBPIA notification on their talk page? 22:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)


====Comments by others about the request concerning GoodDay ====
===Result concerning Christsos===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
Please note that I have been contacted by [[User:GoodDay]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Daicaregos&diff=429448700&oldid=429383104 here], which I consider to be further evidence of their inappropriate behaviour. [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 20:18, 16 May 2011 (UTC) ... and they have continued to post inappropriately both [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=429450085 at this page] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Daicaregos&curid=26438600&diff=429451706&oldid=429448700 at my Talkpage]. [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 20:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC) ... and [[User:GoodDay]] continues to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Matt_Lewis&diff=429468120&oldid=429467569 intimidate me]. It is highly inappropriate for them to contact me while this is live. Would someone please ask them to stop. Thanks. [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 22:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC) ... on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Matt_Lewis&diff=429470069&oldid=429468120 and on] [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 22:52, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:I would fully support Daicaregos assessment that GoodDay is a low level disruptive editor. GoodDay seems to contribute very little to this project in terms of actual content but is actively involved in what can only be described as stirring the pot. I also get the impression that he might actual want a ban... [[User:Bjmullan|Bjmullan]] ([[User talk:Bjmullan|talk]]) 20:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
*{{u|Christsos}}, if you have anything to say, now would be the time. It looks like all of these happened after you were explicitly left a contentious topics notice informing you of the 30/500 restrictions, so can you please explain why you are clearly violating that? I'll give you a short while to explain, but otherwise I'm very much leaning toward a sanction. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 22:06, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
*:I'm on the same page. They haven't edited in a couple days so there's no immediate need to step in. We can wait to see if there's a decent response. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
*:{{u|Seraphimblade}}. they're still not around. How do you feel about a logged warning that the next violation will result in a one week block, followed by escalating blocks for further violations? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 14:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*::{{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, I'm not a fan of that, as we'd essentially be tying the hands of future admins as to what to do if the violations continue (if it's a highly technical and probably inadvertent violation, maybe they only want to block for a day, and if it's egregious and obviously intentional, maybe they go right to a month, or even indef if the editor states they intend to keep violating it). I don't think we should predetermine the outcome of future actions. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 17:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*:::I'll buy that, yeah. So a non-specific logged warning? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*::::I'm good with that. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 02:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Entropyandvodka==
* I find this rather poor taste to be honest. GD has already said he'd forgotten about the 1RR, and was actually reverting (believe it or not) to get back a consensus that was 'hard won' a couple of years ago: ie to avoid more 'problems'. He was actually reverting edits that he's been arguing for for years. I don't think that was clever at all (and have told him so) but is it really something to complain about in here? Whatever people say about Goodday, there are clear nationalist agendas that (for me personally) ultimately 'counterbalance' his behaviour. If it is 'extreme' to insist as GD does that Wikipedia can only use the term 'country' for sovereign states, then surely it is also 'extreme' to refuse to allow the term 'constituent country', which the avowed Scottish and Welsh nationalists do. They also use their talk pages as 'Facebook' pages for talking about devolution, which I find totally inappropriate for WP. I personally think they should flipping-well put up with GoodDay's misdemeanour’s, because he really does nothing compared to what they've got away with for years imo. At the end of the day, the whole UKnationality 'area' is much more of a problem than individual mavericks like GD, or Sarah777 too. WP's inability to offer solid guidance on nationality is surely not their fault. IMO it is ultimately Wikipedia's - and largely for allowing these kind of 'cabals' to so-comfortably settle in and light their nightly candles. It's impossible to make progress with cabals as tight as this. 'Cabals' are the scourge of Wikipedia, and to my knowledge wP does nothing to even try to discourage or prevent them. Why not even attempt to deal with it? And I'd personally take this complaint a lot more seriously if somebody neutral opened it, rather than Dai Caregos, who's very much involved in it all. [[User:Matt Lewis|Matt Lewis]] ([[User talk:Matt Lewis|talk]]) 21:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
{{hat|{{u|Entropyandvodka}} is given a logged warning to adhere to 1RR, as clarified here, and that further edit warring or 1RR violations will result in sanctions. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 22:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC) }}
:I assume Matt Lewis means me, Daicaregos, rather than a user with a similar name. I had no involvement during GoodDay's revert spree on a page with well-known edit restrictions. Matt Lewis's polemic has absolutely no relevance to this matter and is skirting very close to a personal attack. Matt Lewis has had been [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Matt+Lewis almost invisible] on Wikipedia since August last year (other than to do some campaigning hoping to try to save a [[Llanishen Reservoir|reservoir]] near where he lives), until yesterday, and can't possibly know what has been going on here over the last nine months. [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 21:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
::Other than a decidely un-wikipedian template for BI, I've noticed very little changes at all. And I'm not in the smallest bit surprised either. I expect GD has been the same as ever, as I expect has it all. And if Calil is getting cheesed off, when have any one of you ever seen an admin get through all this with a smile on his face? If I've missed anything maybe you could help me get up to scratch? I actually came back for the reservoir thing (not a campaign, but to counter-balance the most obviously-made SPA company bias you'll see on WP), and noticed that Sarah's been indefinitely blocked (which should really be a warning over complaining about GD - these things can get really out of hand). [[User:Matt Lewis|Matt Lewis]] ([[User talk:Matt Lewis|talk]]) 21:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


===Request concerning Entropyandvodka===
:::While GoodDay is a long term low level disruptive editor and I fully understand Dai's frustration here it is the case that GoodDay was properly reinstating a long standing consensus position against three editors at least two of which were fully aware of the agreement. Matt goes a little over the top and we could really do with a lot less drama on this subject. I suggest that its a warning for a technical infringement if needed and also that someone keeps an eye on the page. Long term consensus positions should not be changed without agreement and this was a mediated consensus reached across four articles --[[User:Snowded|<font color="#801818" face="Papyrus">'''Snowded'''</font>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Snowded#top|<font color="#708090" face="Baskerville">TALK</font>]]</sup></small> 05:14, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|BilledMammal}} 19:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
::::I would say I go 'to the top' sometimes. I've just seen so little change Snowded. But I could use less drama right now too - I can't seem to concentrate on different things on WP like I used to. Anyway, perhaps this could be closed, Dai? (or just left, or whatever). NI wasn't the strongest platform from which to raise your concerns at very least. [[User:Matt Lewis|Matt Lewis]] ([[User talk:Matt Lewis|talk]]) 11:54, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::I suppose this could be closed, but not by me. It should be the decision of an uninvolved administrator. It is not in my gift to allow editors to flout sanctions. As I said on your Talkpage Matt, GoodDay disregards any rules he chooses to, usually claiming ignorance, or blaming his poor memory, when challenged. He added [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_II&diff=prev&oldid=428614771 "British Isles"] to an article and 3RRed on a 1RR Arbcom restricted article all in the same week. It just doesn't stop. I have followed Snowded's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoodDay&diff=prev&oldid=429047531 suggested] strategy on how to deal with GoodDay's constant disruption (noted on GoodDay's Talkpage during yet another lengthy discussion on GoodDay's behaviour): “I think the strategy is simple. Revert any trolling behaviour, report clear sanction breaking … ”. Well, three reverts, which is borderline edit-warring anyway, on a 1RR Arbcom restricted page is clear sanction breaking. It has been reported. Something should be done. If nothing happens, it sends out a clear message that sanctions mean nothing. And GoodDay's disruption will go on, and on, and on … [[User:Daicaregos|Daicaregos]] ([[User talk:Daicaregos|talk]]) 13:33, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Entropyandvodka}}<p>{{ds/log|Entropyandvodka}}</p>
:::::::Hello ''Daicaregos''. I consider you a friend. As well I consider GoodDay a friend. I am gently asking ''you'' to close this proceeding. As you opened it, it would be appropriate for you to close it. Involving an Administrator as this point would be unnescessary formality. You and GoodDay have your differences. You also both have your good points. Please close this. Thank you for considering this matter. Your friend, Don [[User:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!]] ([[User talk:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|talk]]) 14:23, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:About the only thing GoodDay is guilty of is treating WP like a social network and popping onto Talk pages making what are seen as pot-stirring comments - based on his own view of the world or his own opinion. This really has to stop. But I'd say he's [[Mostly Harmless]]. In this instance, he picked up the toys of the big kids, big kids got annoyed, GoodDay gets put straight. Hardly needs a sanction though. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 11:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::And his behaviour has come up at ANI as well. Best a independent admin closes --[[User:Snowded|<font color="#801818" face="Papyrus">'''Snowded'''</font>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Snowded#top|<font color="#708090" face="Baskerville">TALK</font>]]</sup></small> 11:56, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


:::Hello ''High King''. Your characterisation of GoodDay is most uncharitable, and frankly dismissive (especially the "Big Kids" comment). GoodDay made an honest mistake, that he was in the process of reverting when "this proceeding" was initiated. He subsequently made an open and sincere apology for the mistake (one which I have faith in, by the way). You have shown your "true colours" here High King ... and they are not "good-colours" that is for sure. If you ever made a similar mistake ... see who comes here again ''to help you'', I suspect the list will be very short indeed. [[User:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!]] ([[User talk:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|talk]]) 11:57, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::::Two things Armchair. First off, GoodDay and myself have had similar toned discussions recently which he found amusing. Then I stated ''more like the harmless spirit in a haunted house that occasionally makes its presence felt, and at worst, is mischievous. I usually think of him fondly, but occasionally I want to kick his arse''. No offense given, none taken. Similarly here. The "Big kids" comment you dislike is harmless, and I'm sure the analogy isn't lost on most readers. No idea why you've a problem with it, or decided to use that comment as a launchpad to attack my character about showing true colours, whatever that's supposed to mean. Second thing. My comment was helpful to GoodDay. I didn't support any sanction in this instance. But...now that I'm reading through this and looking at the comments across multiple Talk pages left by GoodDay....
::::Thinking about it some more, perhaps we have reached the point where a more serious sanction should apply before GoodDay turns into a monster. In the past I thought that GoodDay likes to be a spectator, not a participant. Sure, sometimes the comments from the sidelines will get a reaction. Then he started supporting a POV or position, but maddeningly would withdraw support if anyone questioned him, or flipflop to the other position. Then he started making suggestions or making silly analogies. Then he made the same suggestions or comments over and over, even when it had been discussed and dismissed (anyone remember the "Irish Sea" comments?). At this point, he crossed into mild disruption. But now, he's *editing* articles in topic areas that often are under various sanctions, against consensus, and on this occasion has breached a very serious Arbcom sanction. Not helpfuly editing either. Changing a sentence or phrase or word in such a way as to generate a reaction.
::::But all of that could be forgiven if GoodDay had the good grace to put his hands up and agree he was wrong, or to strongly defend and argue his position. But he's done neither. He's rolled over, practically asking for a sanction and offering no defense. But more worryingly, he has made personal comments about Dai, who reported him, and has tried to garner support on other Talk pages. That, to me, is not the actions of an editor that intends to address the problem. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 12:25, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::Hello ''High King''. What GoodDay does on his ''own TakePage is GoodDay's business''. He and user Jeanne Boleyn have a great Wiki-Friendship, and I personally find reading their friendly discourse of GoodDay's talkpage a delight. If ''other persons'' do not like GoodDay's and Jeanne Boleyns friendly conversion on '''GoodDay's Own Talkpage''', well too bad ... ''simply do not read it''.


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions]]
:::::Secondly, the behaviour of GoodDay on '''Article Pages''' (and other persons talkpages) is the only truely relavent topic for discussion here, at ''this proceeding''. Frankly, I am disappointed ''at you'' HighKing for helping along GoodDay getting [[Lynched]]. I will remember ''your actions'' here. Indeed. [[User:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!]] ([[User talk:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|talk]]) 12:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::What GoodDays friendship with Jeanne Boleyn has to do with this escapes me. As far as I'm aware no one has mentioned it, for good reason, it has nothing to do with what's happening here. Seriously, do you think you are helping here? [[User:Carson101|Carson101]] ([[User talk:Carson101|talk]]) 12:49, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Hello Carson101. The mention of '''GoodDay's Own TalkPage''' has been raised in the past (by others), and specificall here by ''HighKing'' (albeit indirectly) in the text below,


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
:::::::''"About the only thing GoodDay is guilty of is treating WP like a social network and popping onto Talk pages making what are seen as pot-stirring comments - based on his own view of the world or his own opinion. This really has to stop."''
[[WP:1RR]] violations and 1RR gaming at [[Israeli war crimes]]:
#{{diff2|1219978462|02:22, 21 April 2024}} (said that Israel had committed genocide → found that Israel had committed genocide)
#{{diff2|1220005367|07:05, 21 April 2024}} (said that Israel had committed genocide → finding reasonable grounds that Israel had committed genocide)
#:Was requested to self revert at {{diff2|1220010322|07:51, 21 April 2024}}. Did so at {{diff2|1220119072|22:58, 21 April 2024}}, saying {{tq|Self reverting per request, as that edit can be considered a revert. Will be putting that material back in later tonight for the same reasons.}}
#{{diff2|1220169156|06:18, 22 April 2024}} (said that Israel had committed genocide → found Israel was committing genocide)


I don't know whether 06:18 is a second 1RR violation, but it is gaming of 1RR and seeing 1RR as an allowance, rather than a hard limit - reimplementing a reverted violation 23 hours after initially implementing it and seven hours after reverting it is not aligned with our expectations regarding self-reverting violations.
:::::::The '''Social Network''' (i.e., a comparasion to [[Facebook]] means '''GoodDay's Own Talkpage'''). In answer to your query ... yes I am trying to help GoodDay. [[User:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!]] ([[User talk:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!|talk]]) 13:00, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes why is why name being dragged into this? I am beginning to feel like an innocent bystander about to get caught in the crossfire.--[[User:Jeanne boleyn|Jeanne Boleyn]] ([[User talk:Jeanne boleyn|talk]]) 13:05, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


I [[User_talk:Entropyandvodka#WP:1RR_at_Israeli_war_crimes|requested they re-self-revert]]; they have refused to do so, and are now arguing that 07:05, 21 April 2024 was not a revert.
{{od}}Agree with Jeanne, don't know what AVDL's motives are with his interventions. On this issue I'm assuming good faith and would give GoodDay the benefit of the doubt. However, I urge admins who are eye-balling this section and who will make the final decision to take note of what people are saying regarding GD's persistent, below the radar, troll like activities. Many editors have asked him over the course of many months maybe years to modify his behaviour but he refuses to get the point. Admins really have to involve themselves on his future activities. --[[User:Billreid|Bill Reid]] | ([[User talk:Billreid|talk]]) 13:26, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
===Result concerning GoodDay===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*The ArbCom decision allows for blocking on a first offence but as days have passed I don't see this as an appropriate action now. I also note that there is no other record of any other breach of the Troubles RfAr by GoodDay (or indeed any history of blocking at all). In light of this, and of GoodDay's acknowledgment of his "messing up" this time, I would be reluctant to impose editting restrictions on him, since I do not think that a high level sanction (like topic banning) is either appropriate or necessary ''as a preventative measure'' in this instance. Rather I suggest that User:GoodDay be warned formally for breach of editing and behavioural practices ([[WP:EDITWAR]]) on the article [[Northern Ireland]], with no further action to be taken with regard to this particular breach of the Troubles RfAr. <br>I would note also that the "low level disruption" attested to does not fall under the remit of this RfAr ruling, and I would therefore suggest that [[WP:DR|normal dispute resolution]] or [[WP:RFC|requests for comment]] be used--[[User:Cailil|<font color="#999999" size="2">'''Cailil'''</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Cailil|<font color="#999999">'''talk'''</font>]]</sup> 01:19, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
**I'm closing this after just over 2 and a half days have passed since my last comment and (about 5 days since this thread was opened) with no further remarks; as such I'm implementing the warning without further action in this instance--[[User:Cailil|<font color="#999999" size="2">'''Cailil'''</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Cailil|<font color="#999999">'''talk'''</font>]]</sup> 15:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
{{hab}}


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
== Gilabrand ==
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on {{diff2|1179956348|5:10, 13 October 2023}} (see the system log linked to above).


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
There's a few other recent 1RR violations (for example, {{diff2|1217985561|02:21, 9 April 2024}} and {{diff2|1217915211|16:46, 8 April 2024}}), but no recent gaming as far as I can tell.


The issue with this one, though, is how blatant it is; they didn't wait 24 hours to revert back to their preferred version after self-reverting, they waited just seven - if we don't consider the time the between making the violating revert (07:05) and self-reverting the violation (22:58) it means they reverted back to their preferred version just twelve hours after initially reverting to their preferred version.
===Request concerning Gilabrand===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 04:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


If this is permissible, then that means editors who wait 24 hours from their first revert to self revert would be permitted to revert back immediately after self reverting, making the restriction considerably less effective at preventing edit warring and disruption. 22:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Gilabrand}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions]]; [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=399591116 interaction ban] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=402968810#Gilabrand editing restriction]
{{diff2|1221246870|19:31, 28 April 2024}}
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


===Discussion concerning Entropyandvodka===
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
See [[Special:Contributions/85.65.99.40]].


====Statement by Entropyandvodka====
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
This is misleading. While [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1219978462 edit 1] was a revert, edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1220005367 2] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1220169156 3] were not reverts, per the guidelines in [[Wikipedia:Reverting#What_is_a_reversion?|WP:Reverting]]. The paragraph in all versions contains the proposition that Francesca Albanese said (or stated) that Israel had committed or was committing genocide, providing her exact quote. Edits 2 and 3 didn't change this. They added additional propositions (she submitted a report, the findings/conclusion of the report). The term 'found' here refers to the findings/conclusions contained in her submitted report, which was passingly referenced in the initial version before BilledMammal's later-reverted edit. BilledMammal's edit essentially just made the same explicit proposition twice in two consecutive sentences. Edits 2 and 3 fall into the classification of examples provided in [[Wikipedia:Reverting#What_is_a_reversion?|WP:Reverting]] as 'A normal change, not a reversion' as they add additional propositions without removing any. Boiling down the propositions in the differences, we have:
The cited AE threads and imposed sanctions should serve as sufficient warning; See also [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gilabrand&diff=prev&oldid=219941173].


Edit before BilledMammal edit:
;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
She found X. She said X
To be determined.


BilledMammal edit (before the reversion)
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
She said X. She said X.
It has been brought to my attention that {{user|Gilabrand}} has been editing as {{IP|85.65.99.40}}, per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gilabrand&curid=10112676&diff=429512065&oldid=429512009 this diff]. A brief review of the IP's contribution history indicates that it has been used extensively, including during two different periods in which she was subject to an arbitration enforcement block:
#Between December 18, 2010 and March 18, 2011: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20110318000000&limit=500&target=85.65.99.40][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20110110104836&limit=66&target=85.65.99.40]
#Between June 15, 2010 and July 12, 2010: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20100712042900&limit=101&target=85.65.99.40]


Edits 2 and 3 (not reversions)
Further, the IP has made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vittorio_Arrigoni&diff=prev&oldid=427115834 this edit], which is, in part, a revert of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vittorio_Arrigoni&diff=prev&oldid=427114524 this edit] by Nableezy, which violates their interaction ban.
She submitted report X, which found/concluded X. She said X.


I'd point out briefly here that the initial version, before and after BilledMammal's reverted edit, did warrant revision, as it referred to the findings/conclusion of a report without explicitly mentioning the report. I now think BilledMammal was right to make that initial edit, and I was wrong to simply revert it, as that original form of the sentence ''with no additional information'' would go against [[MOS:SAID]]. Edit 1, the revert I did make of BilledMammal's edit, failed to address this issue, but the subsequent edits 2 and 3 addressed this, without information/proposition loss. Edit 3 was a slightly clearer version of edit 2.
I'm bringing this here, instead of taking actions myself, in order to obtain more views on the proper action, and allow Gilabrand to respond, if she wishes to. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 04:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


After edit 2, in which I first added the additional material, BilledMammal accused me of violating 1RR. I self-reverted when requested to, in the spirit of collaboration, though didn't agree that adding that material constituted a revert, and ultimately added it later in edit 3. All the material is RS-backed, and provides informative and relevant context. If I'm correct that edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reversions, then there's no 1RR violation. If I believed edit 2 or edit 3 constituted a revert, I wouldn't have made either edit.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gilabrand&diff=429671046&oldid=429649213]


On my talk page, I attempted multiple times to engage with BilledMammal about the substance of the issue, sought feedback, asking how BilledMammal wanted to write it to add the additional material. BilledMammal repeatedly refused to engage much about the topic, showed no interest in seeking consensus, instead accusing me of a 1RR violation and demanding I self-revert to BilledMammal's version. BilledMammal then threatened arbitration if I didn't comply. I made a good faith attempt to show to BilledMammal why I believe edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reverts, and offered two more suggestions to reach an inclusive consensus. BilledMammal did not respond to these suggestions.


:{{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}},{{u|Seraphimblade}} Understood, regarding what constitutes reverting. I'll be mindful of that in the future. Regarding the user talk page thing, it was BilledMammal that came to my talk page, where I responded and attempted to reach a consensus. In the future, I'll redirect such talks to the article talk page. I should have started a talk there anyway before edits 2 and 3.
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Gilabrand===
====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Entropyandvodka===
====Statement by Gilabrand====
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
As I informed T. Canens, EdJohnston and AGK, the building I work in operates with a shared global IP. This past week I replied to a question on my talk page but forgot to log in. When I saw the IP number, I replaced it with my signature. I am now being accused of evading a topic ban last year (!!). T. Canens mysteriously received this information from an unknown confidential source. When I say this special contributor account is not mine, and I specifically opened an account over five years ago as advised by Wikipedia so as not to be associated with the global IP, I am mocked, ridiculed, threatened and publicly called a liar. I looked at the contributions of this editor/editors. The list is certainly an interesting mix. I don't think Prostitution in Iran, Lorna Luft, Roxanne Pulitzer, Arundhati Virmani and Madrassas in Pakistan are my specialties exactly...Furthermore, if my English grammar and spelling were anything like the editing summaries left on these pages, I would consider myself in big trouble. Being blocked and banned for months at a time is not fun, but luckily, Wikipedia is not the only thing I do in life. I have plenty to keep me busy, and during my time away I did not edit from a global account (or sneak around trying to find evidence to incriminate others). I edit Wikipedia because I believe I have the skills and sources to improve it. Since my return I have worked hard to do better in the things that I was criticized for in the past, such as incivility and edit warring. I have made an effort to improve relations with editors I may have clashed with. Making Wikipedia a better source of information is my goal, and I would very much like to continue, but it seems like administrators have made up their minds that I am not wanted here. Is there anything I can do to change that? From the tenor of the comments above, it seems not. --[[User:Gilabrand|Geewhiz]] ([[User talk:Gilabrand|talk]]) 21:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
====Comments by others about the request concerning Gilabrand ====
*The self-revert remedied the 1RR violation, and their revert back to their preferred version after 24 hours wasn't great, but was not a 1RR violation. Is there a pattern of 1RR gaming, or just this single example? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 17:30, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
@the filing admin→When you write "It has been brought to my attention..." can you elaborate here on the circumstances regarding ''how'' it was brought to your attention?—[[User:Biosketch|Biosketch]] ([[User talk:Biosketch|talk]]) 06:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
*:{{u|Entropyandvodka}}, those were reverts. Just because you're not using undo, rollback, or a tool like twinkle doesn't mean that modifying the same piece with a slight rewording isn't reverting. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 13:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
*If this is just a single instance, I would be okay with a logged warning, including a reminder that 1RR is not an entitlement to do another revert at 24 hours and 1 minute from the first. Entropyandvodka, if someone objects to an edit you made, go to the article talk page (''not a user talk page''), find out why they objected, discuss it with anyone else who participates, and see, by suggesting stuff on talk, if you can address those concerns. If you come to an impasse, [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]] is available at that point. But yes, tweaking your edit a little bit and making it again still is reverting, if the edit is still substantially similar to the last one. We have to treat it that way; otherwise there would be no end of gaming with that. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
*:I'm fine with a logged warning as well, now that 1RR and what a revert is has been clarified. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 14:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Petextrodon==
:for what it's worth, i think you might be over-reacting: the IP address is a common one and not used exclusively by one person. i would check it out more carefully. [[User:Soosim|Soosim]] ([[User talk:Soosim|talk]]) 17:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
::[http://www.db.ripe.net/whois?searchtext=85.65.99.40&searchSubmit=search The IP] belongs to [[Matam, Haifa]]. This is a big place, and many can edit from there. Similarity of style is not enough in those cases. [[User:ברוקולי|Broccolo]] ([[User talk:ברוקולי|talk]]) 19:39, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


===Result concerning Gilabrand===
===Request concerning Petextrodon===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Cossde}} 13:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
* I should like to hear from Gilabrand, but I am inclined that the last topic ban should be reset—because it was never actually served, and so there was never any benefit from the exclusion of Gilabrand from this topic. [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 15:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
* Agree with AGK. I encourage Gilabrand to respond here. So far, the evidence looks convincing that she violated her topic ban. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 17:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
** Gilabrand has sent me an email claiming that she edits from a shared office IP and that the edits are not hers; see also [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gilabrand&diff=prev&oldid=429682424]. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 18:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
*** I too received such an e-mail. [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 22:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
*The style of the IP's edit summaries are just like Gilabrand's, so I think these edits are hers. I think any edits by the IP in the period 12/18/10 through 3/18/11 constitute block evasion, and any edits from 3/18 to 5/1 fall under the 1RR in 24 hours restriction, and all reverts were to be discussed. This is from my reading of the [[WP:ARBPIA]] log. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 20:59, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
* I see no need to explicate on how I came to notice these edits, since it is irrelevant to the action to be taken. My unblock last July was based on the assumption that the first month or so of the three-month block had been properly served. It is obviously not the case. What concerns me the most, however, is the sheer disingenuousness of her response. The idea that there's someone at Gilabrand's office who edits in the exact same way she did, down to using the exact same style of edit summaries and having the exact same areas of interest is so improbable that it borders on the ridiculous.<p>Block evasion normally means that the block is reset. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions&oldid=319227429#The_undertow_banned_6_months This decision of arbcom] appears to be on point: a user started socking when there was six months remaining on the block; when discovered, he was banned for an additional six months. In this case, Gilabrand evaded two different three-month blocks, in both cases only a few days after the block was imposed. I think, at a minimum, then, both blocks should be reset, to be served out consecutively, for a total of six months.<p>The disingenuous response, however, along with the pattern of rampant evasion and disregard of sanctions, in my view requires additional sanctions. In last year alone, she had been blocked five times for violations of a topic ban that was originally set to be three months. When another editing restriction was imposed on her, she simply ignored it, leading to two more blocks, at least one of which, we now know, she disregarded as well. A user who has shown so far zero interest in following the community norms ought not to be editing at all, much less in such a controversial topic area. Moreover, if a user is pretty much lying through her teeth even when she was caught red-handed, how exactly can we expect ''any'' of her edits to be a truthful and accurate representation of sources, especially sources that cannot be readily checked by other editors? I think that an indefinite topic ban, if not an indefinite block, is in order. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 07:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
*OK, how about a rerun of the three-month block, followed by an indefinite restriction from the I/P area, both article and talk, but normally construed. I.e. topics about Israel that are not about the conflict would be OK. She would be under an indefinite 1RR/day on all articles. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 18:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
**The problem is that restrictions only work if the user abides by them. Last time she was topic banned she was blocked ''five times'' for violations. I doubt that a topic ban in this case would be much different from a block. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 18:42, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
*I'd support an indefinite block, after further discussion, if we hear nothing from Gilabrand that might indicate awareness of her past failures and give us any optimism for the future. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 20:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
* I also propose an indefinite block, under the provisions of [[WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions]]. I have asked Gilabrand on her user talk page to urgently make a statement here, but she has not edited since 18 May so I think we should hold off for a while on actioning this thread. However, I do not see what response she could offer that would allay my concerns, per T. Canens, that she will evade her block if topic-banned. [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 22:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:* I am informed that GIlabrand is presently not editing because it is the Sabbath, so I would reiterate my request that we hold off on actioning this thread until she has made a statement. [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 22:29, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
*I've taken a close look the the edits of Gilabrand and the IP, including comparing the edit times, and I would agree that it is likely that there is at least one editor besides Gilabrand using that IP address. The evidence includes topics, edit sequences and edit summaries. However, the same evidence strongly suggest that Gilabrand has used the IP to evade blocks. Note these edit counts of the IP:
[[File:Ip edits by month and compared to Gilabrand block.GIF|thumb|right]]
:April 2010 - 2 edits
:May 2010- 0 edits
:June 2010 - 117 edits (all occurring after her mid June block)
:July 2010 -116 edits (Gilabrand unblocked mid July)
:August 2010- 24 edits
:September 2010- 27 edits
:October 2010 - 1 edit
:November 2010- 44 edits
:December 2010- 50 edits (47 were made after her December 18th block)
:January 2011-282 edits
:February 2011- 207 edits
:March 2011- 321 edits (199 before block ends March 18th)
:April 2011 - 52 edits
:May 2011 -27 edits
:It reminds me strongly of ABAB patterns in [[Single-subject research]] designs. Low edits when Gilabrand is unblocked and significantly higher whenever she is, and back to the lower baseline when the block ends.
:In addition, there is considerable overlap in edits, which also put in question Gilabrand's statement above "this special contributor account is not mine." The IP is editing [[Purim]] around the time of March unblock, and Gilabrand's first edit post-block is to that article. Post block, the IP edits [[Bayt 'Itab]][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bayt_%27Itab&diff=420947221&oldid=382064294][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bayt_%27Itab&diff=420947538&oldid=420947221] and 3 hours later so is Gilabrand having never done so before.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bayt_%27Itab&diff=420963356&oldid=420957654] The IP edits [[List of adventive wild plants in Israel ]][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_adventive_wild_plants_in_Israel&action=historysubmit&diff=421127136&oldid=357280285] and 3 minutes later so does Gilabrand.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_adventive_wild_plants_in_Israel&diff=next&oldid=421127136] having never edited there before. There are others, and as has been mentioned, there is clear similarity in the topics edited and the edit summaries.
What to do? The problem here is the history of evasion of blocks, topic and interaction bands, and in particular as Tim Song mentions, the continuing disingenuous response. Gilabrand can be a great editor, but I really don't see any other option given the history. --[[User:Slp1|Slp1]] ([[User talk:Slp1|talk]]) 19:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:Yes, I didn't examine every single edit in detail since it is sufficient that some of the edits have been made by Gilabrand, and it is clear that that is the case. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 12:00, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
*Barring objections from an uninvolved admin, I'll close this in 24 hours. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 19:34, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Petextrodon}}<p>{{ds/log|Petextrodon}}</p>
== Supreme Deliciousness ==


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka]]
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''

===Request concerning Supreme Deliciousness===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : —[[User:Biosketch|Biosketch]] ([[User talk:Biosketch|talk]]) 21:56, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Supreme Deliciousness}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Purpose_of_Wikipedia]]<br /><s>[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#General_1RR_restriction]]</s>
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
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#<s>[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golan_Heights&diff=429354709&oldid=429351136 16 May 2011] – 1st revert at [[Golan Heights]].</s>
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golan_Heights&diff=429400861&oldid=429354709 16 May 2011] – <s>2nd revert;</s> insertion of POV claim "in southwestern Syria" despite ongoing discussions
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Current_Article_Issues&diff=429626837&oldid=429626646 21:39, 17 May 2011] – user decides there is "no choice" but to start editing articles in accordance with his POV.
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&diff=prev&oldid=429630010 22:01, 17 May 2011] – user edits [[Israel]](!) with edit summary "This entire country is disputed."
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Nakba_Day&diff=prev&oldid=429770947 18 May 2011] – user edits [[2011 Nakba Day]] inserting as fact the contested claim that the Golan Heights are "In Syria."


#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1220924734 26 April 2024] use of a primary source that has been established as a pro-rebel.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1220914855 26 April 2024] use of a primary source
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#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221268007 28 April 2024] use of single source the has [[WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS]] under [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]] circumstances.
#Counseled on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive84#Supreme_Deliciousness 5 March 2011] by {{User|HJ_Mitchell}}
#Blocked on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive81#Supreme_Deliciousness 24 January 2011] by {{user|Courcelles}}
#Blocked on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive62#Supreme_Deliciousness 1 May 2010] by {{user|Tznkai}}


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :
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[[WP:BAN|Topic ban]].
*Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
This page as seen weeks of [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] and possible [[WP:NAT]] editing, with controversial content been added with single sources that are most cases primary sources that have clear conflict of intrests and even been labled "pro-rebal". Some other sources with [[WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS]], that makes the content appear [[WP:OR]]. Request for more citations per [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]] and [[WP:CHALLENGE]] have been refused. Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.
Despite ongoing and earnest efforts to come to an agreement on just how to describe the status of the disputed territories – specifically the Golan Heights and Jerusalem, but now also ''all of Israel'' – {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}} insists on editing articles in a [[WP:POVPUSH]] spirit in total disregard of said efforts. At [[Talk:Golan Heights]], two neutral participants in the discussion, {{User|Sean.hoyland}} and {{User|George}}, have been trying to suggest a formula both sides can agree on – namely not assigning the disputed Golan Heights to either claimant (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Golan_Heights&diff=427953575&oldid=427933681] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Golan_Heights&diff=429596248&oldid=429536103]) – but {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}} is disregarding these centralized endeavors to articulate an NPOV formula and editing based exclusively on what is his personal POV. His conduct is particularly disruptive to Wikipedia because it demands that what little time I – and no doubt other contributors – have to devote to improving articles in general needs to be spent examining his staggering edit history in the I/P topic area to follow up on his contributions. It should also be noted that his only meaningful contributions to Wikipedia are to contentious I/P articles. Virtually none of his edits outside I/P are content-related.
:@{{User|ZScarpia}}, the third diff is not in itself a violation, being that it relates to a discussion, you're correct. But regarding the second diff, if it is not a revert it is still an addition of content to the article when there is no question that describing the Golan Heights as "in southwest Syria" without qualifying the assertion is misleading the reader. The reality is that the territory is disputed – its status is ''unresolved''. But {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}} does not accept that as the reality. In his reality, it is part of Syria period. As for what is neutral with respect to Jerusalem, the point again is that {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}} is not being consistent. Saying that the status of East Jerusalem is disputed or that East Jerusalem is part of the West Bank is significantly more neutral than saying it is part of the Palestinian territories (which SD does [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Nakba_Day&diff=prev&oldid=429776372 here]); the latter is engaging in the dispute by assigning the territory to one of two sides contesting sovereignty over it and describing a POV as fact. In the fourth diff it is not just the edit summary, though the edit summary essentially belies any semblance of neutrality on the editor's part. Consider the discussion over at [[Talk:Poison_affair_of_Palestinian_schoolgirls#Conspiracy_theories_involving_Jews_and_Israel_category|Poison affair of Palestinian schoolgirls]]. {{User|Sean.hoyland}}, citing [[WP:CAT]], argues that "It should be clear from verifiable information in the article why it was placed in each of its categories." Is it clear from verifiable information in the article why {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}} added [[Israel]] to the Category:Disputed territories in Asia? No, there's nothing in the article that supports describing as a fact that the State of Israel is a disputed territory. That is the editor's POV – again, incorporated into the article without qualification, without even one [[WP:RS]] that says the State of Israel is a disputed territory. Do you follow what is happening? In {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}}' world , when it comes to East Jerusalem, there is no dispute – it is Palestinian. When it comes to the Golan Heights, there is no dispute – it is in Syria. When it comes to the State of Israel, there there is a dispute. These are not consistent positions – they are products of an agenda. And the ''Haaretz'' article is clearly marked as an opinion piece; it is not endorsed by the newspaper and does not constitute anything more than the writer's own view. (But there too, same problem – for SD, when convenient, POV=fact.)—[[User:Biosketch|Biosketch]] ([[User talk:Biosketch|talk]]) 03:03, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::The bottom line as I see it, based on the diffs provided and the user's own comments below, is this: {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}}' edits, whether deliberately or otherwise, fail to properly distinguish between neutral POV and POV. [[WP:NPOV]] defines ''neutral point of view'' as "carefully and critically analyzing a variety of sources, then attempting to convey the results to the reader clearly and accurately. Wikipedia aims to '''describe disputes, but not engage in them.'''" It further instructs contributors to "'''Avoid stating opinions as facts'''" and to "'''Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts.'''"
:::*In the second diff, [[User:Supreme Deliciousness]] restored/added (it doesn't matter which) a ''seriously contested assertion'' – that the Golan Heights are "in southwest Syria" – making it appear to the reader as a fact.
:::*In the fourth diff, [[User:Supreme Deliciousness]], basing his edit on the outrageous "This whole country is disputed" remark, added [[State of Israel]] to the Category:Disputed territories in Asia. There is no mention of such a claim in the article itself. He provided no sources to back up the claim anywhere. [[WP:CAT]] says, "It should be clear from verifiable information in the article why it was placed in each of its categories." So where's the verifiable information?
:::*In the fifth diff, [[User:Supreme Deliciousness]] edits [[2011 Nakba Day]], changing "From Syria" to "In Syria." The bizarre thing about this edit is that the headline of the ''Haaretz'' opinion piece he cites actually says "Israel was infiltrated." Here again, the language chosen by the user is factual – not supported by the sources that reported on the day's events and not compliant with WP:NPOV.
:::One last comment. Had this been another user, one for whom such behavior could conceivably be attributed to a lack of understanding or a momentary lapse of judgment, it would have been captious on my part to bring it to AE. But this is not such a case. This is a user who was in the past sanctioned for similar if not identical behavior and who appears to be manifesting the same problems all over again now.—[[User:Biosketch|Biosketch]] ([[User talk:Biosketch|talk]]) 18:03, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
It has been five days since this AE concerning {{User|Supreme Deliciousness}} was opened and four days since my last comment on it. Most of what's transpired below in the interim is tangential and not unlike the usual clamoring that is endemic to I/P articles. However, there are two points in particular that do invite further consideration. The first is the matter of [[User:Supreme Deliciousness]]' use of sources, and the second is [[User:Gatoclass]]' invocation of the [[WP:BRD]] method as a defense of Supreme Deliciousness' edits.


Following attempts for dispute resolution have been tried:
#''Did Supreme Deliciousness accompany his edit at [[Israel]] with sources and discussion? Answer: No.'' The charged edit Supreme Deliciousness made at [[Israel]] occurred at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&diff=prev&oldid=429630010 22:01, 17 May 2011]. It was not until [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Israel&diff=429917471&oldid=429055746 18:05, 19 May 2011] that Supreme Deliciousness initiated a discussion at [[Talk:Israel]] – subsequent to my filing this AE at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=429788910 21:56, 18 May 2011]. He made about sixty edits in between. That's two days and sixty edits with no attempt at discussion at [[Talk:Israel]]. Even when he finally did start a discussion, it was not accompanied by sources at first but instead generally mentioned Hamas, Hezbollah, and "20 country's who don't recognize Israel and countries who call the area 'Palestine.'" This would lead one to conclude that the edit to [[Israel]] issued from a place of personal conviction/POV and not from verifiable sources.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces#Request_for_multiple_citations
#''Do the sources Supreme Deliciousness later added justify the edit? Answer: No.'' Eventually, Supreme Deliciousness did start suggesting sources. At first he suggested four: a [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-accepts-1967-borders-but-will-never-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072 ''Haaretz'' article on Hamas], an [http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/03/200931322165471789.html ''Al Jazeera'' article on Hezbollah], a [http://www.parliament.gov.sy/images/syr.jpg map published by Syria], and a [http://books.google.com/books?id=FZ8Kkmov-zgC&pg=PA183&dq=%22most+of+the+22+countries+of+the+Arab+League+have+refused+to+formally+recognize+Israel+as+a+state%22&hl=en&ei=72HVTffNOZCTswah78SODA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22most%20of%20the%2022%20countries%20of%20the%20Arab%20League%20have%20refused%20to%20formally%20recognize%20Israel%20as%20a%20state%22&f=false passage from a book]. (Later he added a fifth one, introduced to the discussion by [[User:Sean.hoyland]].) There is a major problem with how these sources are being used, specifically the problem of misrepresentation: none of the sources describes the State of Israel as a disputed territory, yet that is how they are being used. Not recognizing a country is not the same as being in a dispute with it. Israel does not recognize [[Kosovo]], but there is no dispute between the two; and Morocco has not formally recognized Israel, but peaceful relations have been characteristic of the two nations' dealings with each other for years now. Supreme Deliciousness has yet to provide a reliable source that compellingly supports his assertion that the State of Israel is a disputed territory.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces#NESOHR
#''Can Supreme Deliciousness' edit be considered [[WP:BRD]]? Answer: No.'' The BRD defense does not apply here and it's simple to explain why. Supreme Deliciousness did not follow up the Bold-Revert components with Discuss – not until a day after the AE was filed and two days after his initial edit. Indeed, rather than be an example of Bold Revert Discuss, this is all an example of Shoot Then Aim.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces#Adding_single_sourced_content
(Note: none of the above should be construed as superseding anything said earlier.)—[[User:Biosketch|Biosketch]] ([[User talk:Biosketch|talk]]) 08:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)


In response to the comments made here, my stand is that if the admins here feel that a topic band for 30 days or one year to myself or to Petextrodon or both, so be it. However, I request that my band would be limited to Sri Lankan Civil War related topics since my edits on broader Sri Lankan topics have not been hot topics and I have been contributing for over an decade.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness&diff=429789166&oldid=428792973 Notified].


In the matter at hand I would request admin intervention to review the content dispute. I have raised this issue in RSN ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_431]) and there has been no result. Clearly the article in question does not meet WP standards of [[WP:NPOV]] and I request an independent review, mainly regarding the poor sourcing and use of primary sources. In another RSN ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_425#International_Truth_and_Justice_Project]) it was mentioned that ''"As with other advocacy groups… caution is needed. Statements by advocacy groups are WP:PRIMARY sources… certainly reliable for verifying that they take a given stance on an issue, but not necessarily de-facto reliable for the accuracy of the background material used to take that stance."'' It is vital that this takes place now due to the [[WP:BATTLE]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221851584], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221851453], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221842369], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221834414], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221339905]) that’s is taking place regarding topics associated with the Sri Lankan Civil War, with a clear group of editors including Pharaoh of the Wizards editing on one side of this battle ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ravana009&diff=prev&oldid=1221851339], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=1221851398]). I am not surpised to see his support of Petextrodon, an editor who has no content contribution beyound Sri Lankan Civil War topics. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 14:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
* (@ScottishFinnishRadish) RFCs on related topics have seen vote stacking. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 14:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 16:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</small>


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
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@[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku ]]. [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]] and [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] on SL Civil War topics were conducted by Petextrodon, Oz346 and Okiloma in general. These have been evendent in pages: [[List of attacks on civilians attributed to Sri Lankan government forces]], [[Sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka]] where request for use of secendary sources to meet [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]] has been meat by [[WP:BATTLE]]. [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] has taken place in RFCs in [[Talk:Sri Lanka Armed Forces]], [[Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers#Merge_proposal:UN_child_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Haiti]], [[Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom#RFC:_Report_on_1977_anti-Tamil_riots]]. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 12:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
===Discussion concerning Supreme Deliciousness===


:Oh and recently [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] in [[Talk:Tamil_genocide#Potential_redundancy?]]. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 14:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
====Statement by Supreme Deliciousness====
::And a call for vote stacking [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_films_about_the_Tamil_genocide&diff=prev&oldid=1222624199]. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 04:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
:::It is too much of a coincidence that the same set of users appear ''in numbers'' on votes on articles related to the Sri Lankan Civil War. With some new users taking it for granted that there is [[WP:CAMP|a camp]] already formed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tamil_genocide&diff=1222806806&oldid=1222761441|referring to it as "us"]. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 01:25, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning Petextrodon===
*'''To admins, I am busy now in real life, and will not be able to reply immediately, please wait until I can reply.'''
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Petextrodon====
I did not violate "purpose of Wikipedia" or "1rr restriction"
I don't think the issue is truly about the number of citations which is why user Cossde deleted even the content backed by two RS citations, [[Human Rights Watch]] and [[Routledge]] scholarly publication. More crucially, Cossde may be '''guilty of vandalism''' for repeatedly deleting sourced content [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1218331186&oldid=1218191141 1]][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1221313227&oldid=1221270413 2]], since no Wikipedia rule states that a content without more than one RS should be removed. Also, the user is well-aware that [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Sri Lanka Reconciliation/Sources]] classified the [[UTHR]] as RS long ago and recently classified NESOHR as a "Qualified source" that can be cited with attribution. As for [[Frontline (magazine)]], that's a mainstream news magazine that any reasonable editor can see meets the criteria of RS. As for [[Uthayan]] newspaper, I had repeatedly [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1218191038&oldid=1218147667 explained] to this user in the talk page that it was a registered and award-winning Sri Lankan newspaper yet they weren't satisfied by this explanation and refused to explain why they questioned its reliability.


Cossde has a long history of deleting reliably sourced content [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces&diff=439264058&oldid=439092096 1]][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=551985936 2]][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces&diff=1157686361&oldid=1157681492 3]] that are critical of the Sri Lankan government and its armed forces. To me this looks like [[WP:nationalist editing]], especially given the blatant double standards this user has shown regarding the use of sources on multiple occasions:
*The two edits at the Golan Heights article are right after each other and I did not break the 1 revert rule. I did already tell him that: (reply at the bottom[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGolan_Heights&action=historysubmit&diff=429691688&oldid=429688498]), the second edit was not a "insertion of POV claim", "southwestern Syria" was in the section for a long time, Gilabrand had just removed it without seeking consensus: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golan_Heights&action=historysubmit&diff=429345754&oldid=429343940], I re added it back with a source. The source follows the international view: [http://books.google.com/books?id=DqIv03qWPc0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+situation+of+workers+of+the+occupied+Arab+territories:+report+of+the&hl=en&ei=YxFyTYGEF4jvsgbMoZ2EDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=%22The%20international%20community%20maintains%20that%20the%20Israeli%20decision%20to%20impose%20its%20laws%2C%20jurisdiction%20and%20administration%20in%20the%20occupied%20Syrian%20Golan%20is%20null%20and%20void%20and%20without%20international%20legal%20effect.%22&f=false][http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ga10794.doc.htm]. If I am to be sanctioned for that edit where I follow the international view and don't give minority view the same weight, then Biosketch will have to be sanctioned for this edit where he does the exact same thing and states that a disputed area is "present day northern Israel": [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homs&action=historysubmit&diff=429870592&oldid=428609343]. About a similar issue, an admin added East Jerusalem to the Palestinian territories section: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Nakba_Day&action=historysubmit&diff=429785335&oldid=429784569] is he also to be sanctioned?
* Cossde removed content from [[sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka]] by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sexual_violence_against_Tamils_in_Sri_Lanka&diff=1209559144&oldid=1209557207 contesting citation] to the book authored by a prominent Sri Lankan journalist; yet they [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=1209136268&oldid=1209133229 cited the same book] on another article to support their edits.
* Cossde significantly expanded the background section of the [[1977 anti-Tamil pogrom]] by adding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=1208104824&oldid=1207732383 content from a report] published by the Sri Lankan government; yet on the currently disputed article they [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=1217907112&oldid=1217901072 contested the reliability] of another report published by the same government.
* Cossde has [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=1207289823&oldid=1206925641 previously cited] UTHR in other articles, but now they are not only questioning its reliability but deleting cited content from it.
They did not address their blatant double standards despite my repeated requests to do so in the talk page. It would appear from this to any reasonable observer that Cossde is more bothered by the nature of the content than the reliability of the sources. I hope the admins review the reporter's own behavior so the vandalism issue can be sorted and I wouldn't have to open a separate enforcement request against this user. --- [[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] ([[User talk:Petextrodon|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


:@[[User:Robert_McClenon|Robert McClenon]], Just to clarify, why should I be punished for contributing to Wikipedia? What rules have I broken? I'm being hounded for my good faith contribution by this user for the past several weeks and not vice versa. But I agree with you on the interaction ban as I have no desire to engage in pointless disputes and edit war with this user. I'm very much capable of reaching amicable compromise with users I disagree with as I indeed have on several occasions with another Sri Lankan user, SinhalaLion. But unfortunately it has not been possible with this user. --- [[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] ([[User talk:Petextrodon|talk]]) 21:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 22:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC) </small>
*At the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues I opened up an centralized discussion if people could help me find international view sources showing West Jerusalem as part of Israel, no one could find one, only sources could be found that it wasn't. So I said there was no choice but to remove the non neutral pov claim, because its not backed up by anything. How is this "editing articles in accordance with his POV." ? How is this "my pov" ?
:I'm requesting an extension of 105 additional words to respond to Cossde's statement. --- [[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] ([[User talk:Petextrodon|talk]]) 18:48, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
:Cossde didn't specify but listed me alongside others in [[WP:Votestacking]] accusation which I believe is unwarranted. In the [[Talk:Sri Lanka Armed Forces]] RFCs, I didn't ask any user to participate. Most responses were from uninvolved RFC community. In the [[Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers#Merge_proposal:UN_child_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Haiti|Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers]], I did [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers&diff=1210353909&oldid=1210353745 tag two users] for their inputs as they are prolific contributors to Sri Lanka topic, but only after [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers&diff=1210346080&oldid=1210345696 Cossde tagged two] other uninvolved users for their inputs.
:As for [[Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom#RFC:_Report_on_1977_anti-Tamil_riots|Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom]] RFC, I didn't ask any user to participate. As for [[Talk:Tamil_genocide#Potential_redundancy?]], no one asked me to participate nor did I ask anyone to participate. I volunteered my opinion on my own.---[[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] ([[User talk:Petextrodon|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards====
*Yes at the Israel article I added the category "Category:Disputed territories in Asia" because it is disputed. There are about 20 country's who don't recognize Israel and countries who call the area "Palestine", Hezbollah and Hamas (Hamas being elected by the Palestinian people) do not recognize Israel either, so Israel is a disputed country. So what is the problem? Gilabrand removed it without explanation:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&action=historysubmit&diff=429668320&oldid=429630010] and another user re added it:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&action=historysubmit&diff=429740502&oldid=429668320]
See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Further there no CT alerts.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 14:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


Petextrodon is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 21:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
*At the Nakba day article I added "in Syria", because the events happened in Syria, I have already showed worldview sources for this at the GH talkpage, The entire area is internationally recognized as part of Syria: [http://books.google.com/books?id=DqIv03qWPc0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+situation+of+workers+of+the+occupied+Arab+territories:+report+of+the&hl=en&ei=YxFyTYGEF4jvsgbMoZ2EDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=%22The%20international%20community%20maintains%20that%20the%20Israeli%20decision%20to%20impose%20its%20laws%2C%20jurisdiction%20and%20administration%20in%20the%20occupied%20Syrian%20Golan%20is%20null%20and%20void%20and%20without%20international%20legal%20effect.%22&f=false][http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ga10794.doc.htm], Look at this CIA map of the region:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Golan_92.jpg] see the line that separates both parts of Syria, it was on this line that it happened. I believe that to follow an international view is in accordance with Wikipedia policy npov. If I am to be sanctioned for that edit where I follow the international view and don't give minority view the same weight, then Biosketch will have to be sanctioned for this edit where he does the exact same thing and states that a disputed area is "present day northern Israel": [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homs&action=historysubmit&diff=429870592&oldid=428609343]. At the same article, an admin added East Jerusalem to the Palestinian territories section: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Nakba_Day&action=historysubmit&diff=429785335&oldid=429784569] is he also to be sanctioned? --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 06:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


====Statement by Bookku (Uninvolved)====
*'''Reply to Biosketch:''' Biosketch is claiming that I "insists on editing articles in a WP:POVPUSH spirit" , but the edits he brings up are in accordance with npov and are not pov pushing. The same link to Sean comment he links to:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Golan_Heights&diff=427953575&oldid=427933681] Sean supports the CIA map, so Biosketch is misrepresenting his comments. And the map is presented as a CIA map, not as a "fact". How am I disregarding the centralized discussion when there is no consensus to remove the CIA map? The CIA map follows an international view of the situation:[http://books.google.com/books?id=DqIv03qWPc0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+situation+of+workers+of+the+occupied+Arab+territories:+report+of+the&hl=en&ei=YxFyTYGEF4jvsgbMoZ2EDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=%22The%20international%20community%20maintains%20that%20the%20Israeli%20decision%20to%20impose%20its%20laws%2C%20jurisdiction%20and%20administration%20in%20the%20occupied%20Syrian%20Golan%20is%20null%20and%20void%20and%20without%20international%20legal%20effect.%22&f=false][http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ga10794.doc.htm] The GH is internationally recognized as part of Syria, Biosketch edits many articles about a disputed region without putting a minority opinion in the same position as the international, example:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homs&action=historysubmit&diff=429870592&oldid=428609343] yet in this situation he wants to do that. I showed at the talkpage sources showing a large majority of the international community reffering to East Jerusalem as part of the Palestinian territores,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3A2011_Nakba_Day&action=historysubmit&diff=429779279&oldid=429778492] An admin re added it to the Palestinian territories section:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Nakba_Day&action=historysubmit&diff=429785335&oldid=429784569]. When did I say Golan and East Jerusalem aren't disputed? but this doesn't contradict that they are internationally recognized as part of Syria and the Palestinian territores. Concerning the Haaretz article, Gideon Biger is a Professor in the Department of Geography and Human Environment at Tel-Aviv University and he "researched" the "border" information unlike any other source I have seen about this. But that wasn't the reason why I did the edit at the Nakba article, the reason for my edit there was because international view sources, and official UN view shows that that isn't the border between Israel and Syria.
{{collapse top|Collapsing since Cossde answered the query }}
I don't have detail background but wondering whether really no scope for [[WP:DDE]] protocol? and any difficulties to go through [[WP:RfC]]s, or RfCs happened but did not mention in above difs? [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku ]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 16:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
* @[[User:Cossde|Cossde]] seem to have complained about [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] at RfCs. I suggest usually link the policy page so other user gets to know which policy you are talking about. Cossde's earlier sentence ".. This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND .." is general in nature, [[WP:VOTESTACKING]] at RfCs statement, too, seem general in nature. If complaint is about Petextrodon a) Need to be clear if Petextrodon too has any role in alleged BATTLEGROUND and VOTESTACKING with specific proof difs. On the other hand if statements are related but general concerns but not related to Petextrodon be clear about that too.
{{collapse bottom}}
* @[[User:Petextrodon|Petextrodon]] need to note that general WP:ARE custom is "it's about you not about others". Also read [[WP:TLDR#Some quick tips]]. [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 10:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
* @ [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]], I have dotted down some observations and probable solution to my understanding for this issue in [[User:Bookku/Talk page preparation#WP:ARE#Petextrodon |my sandbox page]]. If you find that helpful for this issue then, I will bring that over here.[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku ]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 15:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Robert McClenon (another Sri Lanka dispute, another forum)====
:Biosketch wants to disregard the international view, for the sake of the view of one country, but at other articles he edits, he isn't applying the exact same reasoning:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homs&action=historysubmit&diff=429870592&oldid=428609343] --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 07:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
I am asking the administrators at this noticeboard to do something, because there are too many disputes between [[User:Cossde]] and [[User:Petextrodon]]. I am ready to provide a list of these disputes again, which I already provided to ArbCom in support of identifying [[Sri Lanka]] as a [[WP:CTOPIC|contentious topic]], and especially the [[Sri Lankan Civil War]], but I know that the administrators here know how to look up the record as well as I do.
::*Npov says how to handle due and undue weight: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV#Due_and_undue_weight], this means that in disputes, a minority view is not put in the same position as an international, this is something you never comment on and this is directly related to this dispute. You said: ''"Wikipedia aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them." It further instructs contributors to "Avoid stating opinions as facts" and to "Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts.""'' So why did you here state that a place in a disputed territory is in "northern Israel" making it appear to the reader as a fact? [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homs&action=historysubmit&diff=429870592&oldid=428609343].
::*Yes in the second diff I restored that Golan heights is in southwestern Syria as a fact, per npov due and undue weight, the same say you restored that a place in a disputed area is in Israel here: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homs&action=historysubmit&diff=429870592&oldid=428609343].
::*I haven't read the entire Israel article, but it can be backed up, Hamas: [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-accepts-1967-borders-but-will-never-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072], they were elected by the Palestinian people. Hezbollah:[http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/03/200931322165471789.html], in the Lebanese government, Most Arab states:[http://books.google.com/books?id=FZ8Kkmov-zgC&pg=PA183&dq=%22most+of+the+22+countries+of+the+Arab+League+have+refused+to+formally+recognize+Israel+as+a+state%22&hl=en&ei=72HVTffNOZCTswah78SODA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22most%20of%20the%2022%20countries%20of%20the%20Arab%20League%20have%20refused%20to%20formally%20recognize%20Israel%20as%20a%20state%22&f=false], map at Syrian parliament website: [http://www.parliament.gov.sy/images/syr.jpg]
::*Have you read the entire article? [http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-was-infiltrated-but-no-real-borders-were-crossed-1.362215], sure the headline contradicts the rest of the article, but if you had read the actual article and not just focused on the headline disregarding the actual article, you would have seen his arguments and what he says with it. But as I said before, this source wasn't the reason for my changes, its the international view sources: [http://books.google.com/books?id=DqIv03qWPc0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+situation+of+workers+of+the+occupied+Arab+territories:+report+of+the&hl=en&ei=YxFyTYGEF4jvsgbMoZ2EDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=%22The%20international%20community%20maintains%20that%20the%20Israeli%20decision%20to%20impose%20its%20laws%2C%20jurisdiction%20and%20administration%20in%20the%20occupied%20Syrian%20Golan%20is%20null%20and%20void%20and%20without%20international%20legal%20effect.%22&f=false][http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ga10794.doc.htm]], that supersedes any pov by individual people.--[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 18:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


[[User:Petextrodon]] alleges that [[User:Cossde]]'s removal of sourced content is [[WP:VAND|vandalism]]. It is not vandalism, and an editor who has been editing Wikipedia long enough to know what is [[WP:VAND|vandalism]] should also know [[WP:NOTVAND|what is not vandalism]], and [[WP:POV|POV]] pushing is not vandalism, although it is often reported as vandalism. However, Petextrodon's complaint should be treated as a counter-complaint of [[WP:DE|disruptive editing]] and [[WP:POV|POV]] pushing by [[User:Cossde]].
*'''Reply to Boris''', I did not make a point, to make a point I would go to the Haifa article and other places in Israel and remove that they are in Israel per your and Biosketchs own arguments at the GH talkpage that the land is disputed and a minority view is the same as an international, therefore a place internationally recognized as in Syria can not be described as Syria. This argument you are using, both of you aren't applying to other articles about disputed places (Israel) that you edit. This is not what I did at the Israel article. I did not remove anywhere that places internationally recognized as Israel are in Israel, the same way you and Biosketch wants to remove that an area internationally recognized as Syria is in Syria. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 06:42, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


Something needs to be done to curb these disputes. The obvious, but probably wrong, answer is to impose an [[WP:IBAN|interaction ban]], because these editors '''''do not like each other'''''. The problem is that that will provide a first-mover advantage, and so may actually encourage pre-emptive biased editing. So I recommend that the first step be to [[WP:TBAN|topic-ban]] both of these editors from [[Sri Lanka]] for thirty days to give one or another of the administrators time to review the record in detail and determine which editor is more at fault, and extend the topic-ban to one year, or determine that both editors are at fault, and topic-ban them both for one year.
*'''Reply to AGK''', I have a lot of knowledge about the topic area, the Arab-Israeli conflict, so I knew the land was disputed and that's why I added the cat, and I have added some sources here to show that it is, but if you haven't seen them, then here they are again:
[[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 20:00, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
:''"The contemporary conflict between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East is a multi- layered dispute. One component is the struggle, since the early 1880s, between Jews and Palestinian Arabs for control of the same land, called "the land of Israel" (Eretz Yisrael) by the Jews and "Palestine" (Filastin) by the Arabs. The other is a regional conflict of more recent vintage, dating back to 1948, between states: the state of Israel and the various Arab states. This second conflict has been, at times, about the very existence of the Jewish state of Israel in the heart of the Muslim Arab world, but it has also been over tangible issues such as borders, resources, and territory lost and won in the cycle of wars between them"'', [http://books.google.com/books?id=DjAyc8Ru7RoC&pg=PA3&dq=Israel-Palestine+conflict+dispute+about+land&hl=en&ei=wz7WTfbgO47bsgbJpZWaBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFUQ6AEwCTgU#v=onepage&q=%22The%20origins%20of%20the%20Israeli-Palestinian%20conflict%20lie%20in%20the%20clash%20of%20two%20fledgling%20na-%20tionalisms%2C%20Jewish%20and%20Arab%2C%20focused%20on%20the%20Land%20of%20Israel%2FPalestin%22&f=false Negotiating Arab-Israeli Peace, Second Edition: Patterns, Problems, Possibilities (Indiana Series in Middle East Studies)], p 3. Laura Zittrain Eisenberg, Neil Caplan, Indiana University Press.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Petextrodon===
:''"Since the Zionist movement claimed Palestine as the homeland of the Jewish people, that land came to be the site of conflict between the Palestinians and Zionists. Thus, at the core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, at its current stage, is a disputed but shared territory - that of Mandatory Palestine - with which the history and identity of both sides are inextricably intertwined."'' [http://books.google.com/books?id=bWCN0OUiTJkC&lpg=PA149&dq=israel%20is%20a%20disputed%20territory&pg=PA149#v=onepage&q=disputed%20territory&f=false Israel and the Palestinian refugees], p 149, Eyal Benvenisti (Editor), Chaim Gans (Editor), Sari Hanafi (Editor), Springer.

:Hamas: [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-accepts-1967-borders-but-will-never-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072], they were elected by the Palestinian people. Hezbollah:[http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/03/200931322165471789.html], in the Lebanese government and have been at war with Israel, Most Arab states:[http://books.google.com/books?id=FZ8Kkmov-zgC&pg=PA183&dq=%22most+of+the+22+countries+of+the+Arab+League+have+refused+to+formally+recognize+Israel+as+a+state%22&hl=en&ei=72HVTffNOZCTswah78SODA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22most%20of%20the%2022%20countries%20of%20the%20Arab%20League%20have%20refused%20to%20formally%20recognize%20Israel%20as%20a%20state%22&f=false], map at Syrian parliament website: [http://www.parliament.gov.sy/images/syr.jpg]. These are states directly surrounding Israel.

:I havent read the entire Israel article and don't know if there is information about this in it, I did not ad any new source in the article with the cat but I knew that sources for the cat existed, I wouldn't have added it if I didn't know this. I only added it once, and I have now opened discussion about it at the talkpage. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 22:41, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

*'''Reply to Enigmaman:''' The reason why this "continue to come up", is because there is an of-wiki canvassing/meatpuppeting cable, and at least one time in the past attempts have been made to get rid of me trough enforcement. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 14:24, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning Supreme Deliciousness ====

;Comment by ZScarpia:
In my opinion, the third diff, which is the only one of the group which relates to a page section that I'm involved in editing, should be discounted. On the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Current_Article_Issues&diff=429626837&oldid=429626646 WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues] talk page SD raised the issue of a number of articles which state that West Jerusalem is in Israel, something which is heavily disputed. The position of the international community as evidenced by UN resolutions is that parts of Jerusalem which fall within the area of the ''corpus separatum'' defined by [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_303 UN General Assembly Resolution 303] of 1949, which includes a large part of West Jerusalem, are not the sovereign territory of any country. It would be neutral to state that West Jerusalem has been annexed by Israel or is under Israeli control, but not to state or imply that West Jerusalem is ''in'' Israel. When, after discussion, SD said, "This gives us no other choice but to remove this inaccurate claim of where West Jerusalem is located," that was in essence correct. Based on the evidence, any good-faith editor would have to conclude that sovereignty over West Jerusalem is disputed and that the articles, as they existed, did not present a neutral position. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 23:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:Every place has to be ''in'' somewhere; we can't have a place in limbo. The whole of Jerusalem's legal status is to be determined, but meanwhile, East Jerusalem is ''in'' the West Bank and W Jerusalem is ''in'' Israel. I would be more accurate and describe the whole of Jerusalem as being ''in'' Israel, whether this is recognised legally or not, because that is the reality. Just as before '67 E Jerusalem ws "in" Jordan. [[User:Chesdovi|Chesdovi]] ([[User talk:Chesdovi|talk]]) 00:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::Wikipedia is about stating facts. When there is a significant dispute about something, it cannot be presented as a fact; instead it must be presented as facts about opinions or some other form which can be accepted as factual must be found. That West Jerusalem is in Israel is a disputed point of view and therefore presenting it as a fact is impermissible in Wikipedia. When it comes down to it, as with passports issued by countries such as the US and UK to citizens born in Jerusalem which note only that the holders were born in Jerusalem without giving a country, there is actually no need in the articles under consideration to list which country West Jerusalem is in. Your ''every place has to be in somewhere'' argument only works for somewheres that have agreed borders, which Israel doesn't. (On a smaller scale, there was a dispute about a boundary path at the house of one of my grandmothers which the lawyers couldn't settle. On the principle that the path must have been ''in'' somewhere, my grandmother would have obviously said it was on her land and similarly for the neighbour. Although each of them had friends who would have backed them up, legally and from the point of view of the wider community, neither would have been correct. Until they reached an agreement, ownership of the path ''was'', to use your phrase, in limbo.) <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::So we can't say [[Abu Dis]] is in the [[Jerusalem Governorate]]. [[User:Chesdovi|Chesdovi]] ([[User talk:Chesdovi|talk]]) 14:49, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::::Do reliable sources record any dispute about whether Abu Dis is part of the Jerusalem Governate?
::::Above, you say ''East Jerusalem is in the West Bank''. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Israel regard East Jerusalem as not being part of the West Bank, so that to say it is would be to make a non-neutral statement?
::::<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 15:34, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::That's a pretty dishonest question considering the argument you were making [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Current_Article_Issues&diff=429494345&oldid=429233277 elsewhere]. Abu Dis is mentioned specifically in the resolution ''you'' posted there. This is an excellent example of the kind of agenda driven POV pushing Biosketch was talking about above. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 16:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Search again - there's no mention of Abu Dis anywhere on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Current_Article_Issues that page] as far as I can see. The first time I've heard Abu Dis mentioned is now, here. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Really? Did you not read the full text of UNGA 303? ''You'' brought it up in that discussion. Considering the amount of times you brought up the Corpus Separatum in various discussions, I find it hard to believe you are not aware of what it was supposed to include. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 16:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::[http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/unga303.html UN GA Resolution 303 (IV)] says: ''The City of Jerusalem shall include the present municipality of Jerusalem plus the surrounding villages and towns, the most eastern of which shall be Abu Dis ... .'' Therefore, any statement saying or implying that Abu Dis was indisputably part of the sovereign territory of any entity would be non-neutral. Also, I think that the fact that Abu Dis lies in the UN Jerusalem ''corpus separatum'' zone should be mentioned in the [[Abu Dis]] article.
::::::::You seem to be arguing that presenting the pro-Israeli point of view as factual is neutral, whereas trying to present the pro-Israeli point of view as a point of view is ''agenda driven POV pushing''?
::::::::<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 17:21, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::No, I'm arguing that selectively using the same source material to push a POV that West Jerusalem does not "belong" to Israel, while arguing that Abu Dis does "belong" to the Palestinians is agenda driven POV pushing. Your careful usage of language above is pretty transparent. Is Abu Dis in the Jerusalem Governorate of the Palestinian Authority? Is Bethlehem in the Bethlehem Governorate? Is West Jerusalem in Israel? [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 17:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::But:
::::::::::*I'm not arguing that West Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel, just that the point of view that West Jerusalem does belong to Israel is a point of view (which, of course, is contradicted by the point of view that it doesn't).
::::::::::*I haven't argued anywhere that Abu Dis belongs to the Palestinians.
::::::::::Apologies to anyone who thinks this discussion should be taking place elsewhere or has gone on too long. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 18:29, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::That's a great non-answer. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 18:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::In that case, it's a "great non-answer" <s>which means</s> whose meaning is that your accusations are baseless. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 18:53, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
The second diff purely involves an addition of text so it's not immediately clear whether it is a revert. In any case, though, the edits of diffs 1 and 2 are contiguous and therefore cannot count as two reverts. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 00:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Presumably, what is being objected to in the fourth diff is the edit summary, "this entire country is disputed," which acts as justification for adding the Israel article to the Disputed Regions in Asia category. Offensive as it may appear to pro-Israeli editors, as a factual statement, there being Arab groups who object to the existence of Israel as a self-proclaimed Jewish state and, probably, countries who still don't have diplomatic relations with Israel, it's true. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Reading the [http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-was-infiltrated-but-no-real-borders-were-crossed-1.362215 Haaretz article] that SD gave as a source when making the edit shown in the fifth diff makes that edit look highly justifiable to me. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 02:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


I think that the description given by the filing editor is tendentious and misrepresents. Having seen evidence that SD was the target of organised offwiki attempts to have him or her sanctioned last year, including by trying to portray him or her as an antisemite, to me it looks suspiciously like something similar is being repeated. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 03:18, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


;Comment by BorisG:

The diff #4 is making a [[WP:POINT]] in the context of ongoing discussions at [[Talk:Golan Heights]], e.g. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGolan_Heights&action=historysubmit&diff=427090594&oldid=427090459] - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 03:28, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

However I must admit I do ''not'' find this tit for tat AE requests by both sides healthy. It is out of control. I think admins should find some alternative ways of Arbitration enforcement in this area. Ditto for similar contentious areas. One option is to automatically decline all AE requests from (heavily) involved editors. Maybe this is silly, but we need something. - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 11:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

: Perhaps someone who wants to file a complaint against an editor who they are in conflict with should have to put it on a separate page which is just a queue of requests. Then an uninvolved administrator can delete it or move it here for discussion if it seems to have prima facie validity. I wrote "administrator" otherwise it would be sock city. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 12:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:: Sounds liek a good idea. - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::agree. [[User:Snakeswithfeet|Snakeswithfeet]] ([[User talk:Snakeswithfeet|talk]]) 05:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:This whole discussion is over 10,000 words now. It is a game of diminishing returns. Can you guys please stop!!! - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 12:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
;Comment by EdJohnston
There was no 1RR violation at [[Golan Heights]], so the mention of the 'General 1RR restriction' as one of the sanctions to be enforced ought to be removed. All of SD's edits to [[Golan Heights]] on 16 May were consecutive. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 03:37, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by Ynhockey
:I was going to stay out of this discussion, and other I–P discussions on this page if I could help it, but [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&diff=prev&oldid=429630010 this edit summary] caught my attention and I felt that I had to emphasize it here. I am well aware of WP:AGF, but it is extremely difficult to assume good faith in light of such an edit summary. Clearly this editor should not be editing Israel-related articles if his underlying assumption is that "the entire country is disputed". —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] <sup>([[User talk:Ynhockey|Talk]])</sup> 17:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::'''Note:'''Ynhockey is an involved editor who for example has created a list of non neutral maps showing occupied territories as part of Israel:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_outline_south_wb.png][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_outline_shomron.png][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_outline_northwest_negev.png][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_outline_ashkelon.png][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_outline_jezreel.png]. Well the fact is that Israel is disputed, there are about 20 country's who don't recognize Israel and countries who call the area "Palestine", Hezbollah and Hamas (Hamas being elected by the Palestinian people) do not recognize Israel either, so why are you not assuming good faith and why are you saying I shouldn't be editing Israel-related articles because of me saying a disputed country is disputed? --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 18:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::Isn't the idea contained in SD's comment, that there are those who cannot tolerate the existence of Israel as a Jewish state on any part of the land enclosed by its current borders, just the same as the one contained in statements by Israeli politicians who say that the Arabs (or, at least, Islamists) want to destroy Israel and drive its Jewish citizens into the sea? <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 20:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:::My comment is that Israel and its land is disputed. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 21:03, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
::::Guilty as charged, I am generally involved in the Israeli–Palestinian topic area, otherwise I would have posted in the uninvolved admin area with my recommendation for a topic ban. It is clear that Supreme Deliciousness continues to act in bad faith by saying that ''Israel and its land is disputed'', which can be logically paraphrased as: ''Israel's land and Israel itself are disputed''. Should an editor who openly says this be editing Israel-related articles? I already stated my opinion on this matter above. —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] <sup>([[User talk:Ynhockey|Talk]])</sup> 22:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::Do you think that it's possible that you might be getting the difference between the statement of facts and advocacy confused? <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by Snakeswithfeet.
Israel and its land is disputed. Supreme Deliciousness is correct. It is a factual statement. Nothing else could/should be read into it. I think admins should closely consider the advice of Zero, above: ''"Perhaps someone who wants to file a complaint against an editor who they are in conflict with should have to put it on a separate page which is just a queue of requests. Then an uninvolved administrator can delete it or move it here for discussion if it seems to have prima facie validity.'' One can only ''begin'' to imagine the amount of grief that could be avoided, if this process is typical! [[User:Snakeswithfeet|Snakeswithfeet]] ([[User talk:Snakeswithfeet|talk]]) 05:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:I would add, however, that if we accept that Israel as a country is disputed, we must also accept the disputed nature of the Golan, Judea and Samaria, which Supreme Deliciousness does not. Why would we accept that Israel is disputed but not the other? [[User:Snakeswithfeet|Snakeswithfeet]] ([[User talk:Snakeswithfeet|talk]]) 18:38, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::I am, I never said they aren't disputed. But I always said that if we treat disputed regions like the West bank and Golan in a certain way and don't follow the international view and instead give minority views the same weight, then we must also treat other disputed regions like Israel in the same way. To clarify: this doesn't mean that we treat Israel as a disputed region like the occupied territories, but that we follow the international view in all articles. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 19:01, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::SD, thank you for confirming that you were making a point. - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 11:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::How was I making a point when I didn't apply the same reasoning that you wanted to use? I never removed that places internationally recognized as being in Israel as being in Israel. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 11:56, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::There is more than one way to make a point. Let the admins judge. - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 17:38, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by Jaakobou
:The spirit of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&diff=prev&oldid=429630010 this diff] <s>we should encourage said editor to add a note on</s> uses as origin (e.g. 20 Arab countries as well as Hamas) which can also be used for adding to [[Holocaust]] that "The Holocaust's veracity is overstated." <s>Same reasoning (e.g. 20 Arab countries as well as Hamas) can be made here as well with a multitude of sources. After that, he can add to</s> The same origins can also be used for even worse, and clearly antisemitic statements such as to add to [[Jews]] that they (including me as well) deserve expulsion for their crimes against humanity throughout history ([http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=757 Source]: Al-Quds website, Nov. 6, 2010 ) and that they are descendants of ''Apes and Pigs'' (See: [http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1074.htm What is Arab antisemitism]). If we're going in that direction, of considering these origins as legitimate encyclopaedia material for matters of "opinion", another example of an extreme addition could be used on [[European Union]], <s>then the same reasoning can be applied here as well on [[European Union]] where he'd devote a paragraph stating that</s> where the "opinion" of these origins are that the [[Protocols of the Elders of Zion]] are a "European plot on the Arab stage" (see first source as an example).
:Personally, I think pushing "sick mindset"[http://www.hudson-ny.org/1730/miseries-of-arabs] propaganda origins into an encyclopaedic project as if they were legitimate ones is very dangerous to what is set out to be achieved here and that [[WP:ARBCOM]] made a clear note that this type of behavior is a blunt violation of the purpose of the project. Using Hamas* to support this goes further to illustrate the point of concern.
:* Hamas charter: ''"Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree"''.[http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html]
:p.s. in case it was unclear, I and a few others who commented and have not bothered to make it clear, are involved editors.
:With respect, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 19:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC) + 19:34, 20 May 2011 (UTC) +c <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 19:47, 20 May 2011 (UTC) +fix phrasing. 11:02, 22 May 2011 (UTC) +m 11:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

::How is it "pushing "sick mindset" propaganda"" to ad a "disputed territories" category to a country reliable sources show is disputed? [http://books.google.com/books?id=DjAyc8Ru7RoC&pg=PA3&dq=%22The+contemporary+conflict+between+Jews+and+Arabs+in+the+Middle+East+is+a+multi-+layered+dispute.%22&hl=en&ei=08LWTYSuJJGTswao_cytBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20contemporary%20conflict%20between%20Jews%20and%20Arabs%20in%20the%20Middle%20East%20is%20a%20multi-%20layered%20dispute.%22&f=false] ''"The contemporary conflict between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East is a multi- layered dispute. One component is the struggle, since the early 1880s, between Jews and Palestinian Arabs for control of the same land, called "the land of Israel" (Eretz Yisrael) by the Jews and "Palestine" (Filastin) by the Arabs. The other is a regional conflict of more recent vintage, dating back to 1948, between states: the state of Israel and the various Arab states. This second conflict has been, at times, about the very existence of the Jewish state of Israel in the heart of the Muslim Arab world, but it has also been over tangible issues such as borders, resources, and territory lost and won in the cycle of wars between them"'' [http://books.google.com/books?id=bWCN0OUiTJkC&lpg=PA149&dq=israel%20is%20a%20disputed%20territory&pg=PA149#v=onepage&q=disputed%20territory&f=false] ''"Since the Zionist movement claimed Palestine as the homeland of the Jewish people, that land came to be the site of conflict between the Palestinians and Zionists. Thus, at the core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, at its current stage, is a disputed but shared territory - that of Mandatory Palestine - with which the history and identity of both sides are inextricably intertwined."'' and: [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-accepts-1967-borders-but-will-never-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072][http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/03/200931322165471789.html][http://books.google.com/books?id=FZ8Kkmov-zgC&pg=PA183&dq=%22most+of+the+22+countries+of+the+Arab+League+have+refused+to+formally+recognize+Israel+as+a+state%22&hl=en&ei=72HVTffNOZCTswah78SODA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22most%20of%20the%2022%20countries%20of%20the%20Arab%20League%20have%20refused%20to%20formally%20recognize%20Israel%20as%20a%20state%22&f=false][http://www.parliament.gov.sy/images/syr.jpg] --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 19:42, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

:::Your edit summary made it clear you were objecting the existence of "the entire country". Using Arab "20 countries" and Hamas concerns me with where this is going. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 20:08, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::I wasn't objecting anything, I added a "disputed territories" category to a country reliable sources show is disputed.--[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 20:22, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

::::: There's a record of you doing just that on the pretext that the "minority" (read: antisemitic propaganda) view should be fairly represented on account of 20 [Arab] countries and Hamas(!) being within that opinion. If anyone is not following why I call <s>this</s> these antisemitic, I'll be more than happy to clarify. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 21:47, 20 May 2011 (UTC) +fix phrasing. 11:02, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Yes, please clarify why you call that view "antisemitic". <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 21:55, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

:::::::I'd be happy to. But first I have to ask you if you have any idea on where it might be possible to purchase that Gharqad tree. The so called "Jewish tree" that Hamas says will not call out together with the other rocks and trees to Muslims to kill the Jews that hide behind them. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 22:11, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::So you make an accusation, claim that you will be "more than happy to clarify" your reasons, and then demand that anyone who asks for such clarification should first answer loaded questions that you pose. That is not good faith editing, and your attempt at spreading guilt by association should be disregarded. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 23:09, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::The explanation lies in the body of the question. The core of the aforementioned 'there shouldn't be a Jewish state' "minority", as can be seen in the references I've linked above, has this motivation in wide circulation. Keep the [good] faith. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 00:37, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::Could you please, as you offered, clarify in what way this is an antisemitic view. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 00:51, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::Email me and I'll explain further. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 08:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::I have no intention of emailing you. This is not a private conversation. You made a serious allegation against an editor during an arbitration enforcement discussion, and publicly averred that you would be "more than happy to clarify" it. The allegation, which is a classic example of guilt by association, remains in this thread, but you refuse to substantiate it. Therefore, I request that you withdraw/strike out your untrue assertions above, in order not to prejudice this case. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 09:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::: I am not at war with you RolandR, but it feels as though you are turning the discussion page into a battlefield. There is, off course, a well documented matter of basic association (I'm surprised you call it "guilt") between the narratives and propaganda ([http://www.hudson-ny.org/1730/miseries-of-arabs sample]) and I assume the average person, who's not a declared anti-Israeli, can understand these points I've raised. This issue has clearly raised alarm bells for more than one editor. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 12:13, 21 May 2011 (UTC) +f 12:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Would it be correct to infer that what you're trying to say is that, as with the subjects of the [http://www.hudson-ny.org/1730/miseries-of-arabs article] you linked to, SD's "''ultimate goal ... is to demonize Jews and de-legitimize Israel''?" <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 14:14, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::The violation of WP:ARBPIA derives from the action of actively objecting the existence of Israel, and citing Hamas as justification is the icing on the cake. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 15:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::What finding of ARBPIA would this violate? Are you seriously arguing that an editor should be sanctioned for citing Hamas? <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 15:36, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Stating that there are those who object to the existence of Israel is ''actively objecting the existence of Israel''? <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::Don't be naive, the violation is not a mere act of citation. If that were the case, I and others wouldn't have bothered to post here. <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 18:10, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::If someone adds a disputed territory category to the Israel article that may or may not be valid, is being actively discussed on the talk page, is debatable despite being RS supportable simply because the category has no documented inclusion rules, surely it's reasonable to expect them to be able to do so without being compared to a holocaust denier and being accused of spreading antisemitic propaganda. To paraphrase a Thai saying, don't ride an elephant to chase a grasshopper. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:37, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::It is not only the added category, it is the edit summary used to add it: "the entire country is disputed". This edit summary alone speaks a volume and cries out: "A user who writes such edit summaries should not be editing the topic." [[User:ברוקולי|Broccolo]] ([[User talk:ברוקולי|talk]]) 19:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}
A number of editors, including me, have indicated that they think that SD's comment, as a factual statement, is true. Should that disqualify us from editing in the IP part of Wikipedia too? <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 22:25, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
:With respect, there's a huge difference between noting that a portion of the land, which Israel holds, is in dispute and between ranting and advocating that the existence of the State of Israel is in dispute. As Supreme Deliciousness decided to go with the latter, he is in breach of [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Purpose_of_Wikipedia]].
:Warm regards, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 01:08, 22 May 2011 (UTC) +f 01:12, 22 May 2011 (UTC) +more to the point. 01:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

@Malik Shabazz,
:In review, I've made a careless error that was unhelpful to the discussion. I apologize for phrasing myself in a clearly careless manner in regards to the issue of concern. I opened with a somewhat personal tone (per ''"we should encourage said editor"'') in the context of the reasoning of '''the sources''' used to justify the allegedly encyclopaedic nature of the clearly provocative statement. I clearly missed emphasizing further that the problem comes from misuse of antisemitic ''sources'' and have, in doing so, left in the air a suggestive tone towards Supreme Deliciousness. I did not have any intentions of this kind and have [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&action=historysubmit&diff=430330870&oldid=430324588 now amended my error to the best of my ability]. All my comments in regards to conspiratory and antisemitic views (e.g. "The Holocaust's veracity is overstated.") were not meant to paraphrase/attack the editor but rather the ''sources'' he presented as a legitimate minority view. I can certainly see that my phrasing was of poor choice and assure you that it will not happen again. In a bid for defense for my carelessness, which I truly regret, I note that I was not the only one to take a personal tone as it ''is'' difficult to clarify the separation between the "entire country is disputed" statement from the bid to note that the user should probably not edit articles which relate to Israel. Regardless, I have expanded on the sources without making the issue clear and this is something which I should have paid better attention to. I reiterate my apology and assurance to pay great attention to this matter in the future so that it will not reoccur. As a side note, I must reiterate that while the editor has not given justification for anyone to align him with antisemitism -- and doing so is extremely poor form -- the origins themselves are indeed antisemitic and should not be presented as a mere matter citing of opinion.
:Closing note: I've made a careless error that was unhelpful to the discussion. I've amended it to the best of my ability and I apologize to everyone, and especially to Supreme Deliciousness. This will NOT happen again.
:With respect, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 11:02, 22 May 2011 (UTC) +m 11:04, 22 May 2011 (UTC) +diff of amendment 11:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by Liberal Classic
I feel compelled to comment on this arbitration after following the discussion from Nakba Day Protests 2011 that was featured "In The News" from the main page. The insistence that Israel should labeled as a "[[Territorial_dispute|disputed]] [[Territory_(administrative_division)|territory]] in Asia" pushes the point of view that Israel is not a sovereign nation. I do not believe this view is supported by consensus. See: [[Foreign_relations_of_Israel|Foreign relations of Israel]] and [[List_of_territorial_disputes|List of territorial disputes]]. I also worry that the arbitration process is becoming a theater in the edit war. See:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive84#Jiujitsuguy] and[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive84#Supreme_Deliciousness]. Please note that I do not mean to single out the author in question as the sole culprit here, but it is relevant to the discussion at hand. These items, in addition to a previous topic ban, raises concerns in my mind about tendentious editing on the part of this author. [[User:Liberal Classic|Liberal Classic]] ([[User talk:Liberal Classic|talk]]) 22:36, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:Not at all, see this source: ''"Since the Zionist movement claimed Palestine as the homeland of the Jewish people, that land came to be the site of conflict between the Palestinians and Zionists. Thus, at the core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, at its current stage, is a '''disputed''' but shared '''territory''' - that of Mandatory Palestine - with which the history and identity of both sides are inextricably intertwined."'' [http://books.google.com/books?id=bWCN0OUiTJkC&lpg=PA149&dq=israel%20is%20a%20disputed%20territory&pg=PA149#v=onepage&q=disputed%20territory&f=false Israel and the Palestinian refugees], p 149. This doesn't mean Israel isn't sovereign. "Korea" is also in the same cat: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Disputed_territories_in_Asia], this doesn't mean South and North Korea aren't sovereign states. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 22:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::"Korea" is not a sovereign state. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 14:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::Never said that it was, but two internationally recognized states make Korea. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 14:55, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::So what? [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 15:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
;Nobrainer comment by asad112
Of course the land is disputed, putting aside the 20 or so countries that don't even recognize the country outside the '67 borders, Israeli claims East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as its sovereign territory. This point is disputed by every country in the world besides Israel. The category is more than appropriate. These frivolous AE requests are getting to be ridiculous. -[[User:Asad112|asad]] ([[User talk:Asad112|talk]]) 15:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by George
I don't really have the time to get into this whole discussion, but I wanted to voice my opinion on something getting much discussion here. Many seem to be misinterpreting the statement "Israel is a disputed territory" with "Israel should not exist". The former is absolutely accurate, while the latter verges on hate-speech. Israel is, indeed, disputed. Who disputes it? About 22 countries in the world. Does that mean that Israel shouldn't exist? No, it just means that it's disputed.

The real question is where to draw the line on inclusion of this category. Places including Taiwan (recognized by only 23 countries) and Kosovo (recognized by 75 countries) include the category, while other places, such as Cyprus (recognized by all but 1 country) and Armenia (also recognized by all but 1 country), do not. Oddly enough, what is probably the closest situation to Israel is the State of Palestine, which is recognized by about 120 countries, and does include a child category of the disputed territory category. Anyways, this isn't really the place for a content discussion, just wanted to weigh in on some of the misplaced outrage in this discussion. ←&nbsp;[[User:George|<span style="color:#333;font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:bold">George</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:George|<small style="color:#dc143c;">talk</small>]]</sup> 01:45, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:There's a difference between a disputed territory and a state with limited recognition. Looking at the examples you gave above, the "disputed territory" cat is used in cases of states when the whole territory of the state is claimed by another state, but not when there's a dispute over part of it. Which makes sense. China claims all of Taiwan. Azerbaijan does not claim all of Armenia. Serbia claims all of Kosovo, Turkey does not claim all of Cyprus. Etc. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 09:04, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::My understanding is that many Arabs consider the whole of Israel to be "occupied" territory, while "the international community" (for lack of a more concise, accurate term) considers just areas in East Jerusalem, the West Bank, or the Golan Heights to be occupied. That makes the whole of Israel disputed by some Arab countries, as far as I understand it. ←&nbsp;[[User:George|<span style="color:#333;font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:bold">George</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:George|<small style="color:#dc143c;">talk</small>]]</sup> 10:05, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::No Arab country claims all the territory of Israel. And even if they did, looking again at the examples above, the "territory" cat is used for states that are recognized by a minority of other states. Israel is not a "disputed territory". It's a state that is not recognized by a minority of other states. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 11:31, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::Your comment is not in accordance with the reliable sources that has been provided that shows the '''entire''' territory of Israel is disputed. The cat also has Korea which two internationally recognized states are part of. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 11:36, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::No. The source which you're using now (you didn't have it when you made the edit) says Israel and the Palestinians have a dispute over territory. It doesn't say Israel is "disputed territory". The difference is obvious and I find it hard to believe you don't get it. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 13:04, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::The sources show that all of the territory of Israel is disputed.--[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 13:17, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::No they don't. They say there's a dispute over the territory of the British Mandate. The British Mandate was a "territory". Israel is a state, recognized by the vast majority of other states. It is not a "territory". These different terms have different meaning, and I hope George is reading this and will revise his opinion that pointing out what you're trying to do here "verges on hate-speech". [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 14:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Source says: "'''The contemporary''' conflict between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East is a multi- layered dispute. One component is the struggle, '''since''' the early 1880s, between Jews and Palestinian Arabs for control of the same land, called '''"the land of Israel" (Eretz Yisrael) by the Jews and "Palestine" (Filastin) by the Arabs.''' ", this is not a dispute over the Britsh mandate of Palestine, but "control of the same land, called "the land of Israel" (Eretz Yisrael) by the Jews and "Palestine" (Filastin) by the Arabs." this is the territory of Israel. Notice the "struggle since" and "contemporary conflict" which means occurring and modern conflict. Another source says: "Since the Zionist movement claimed Palestine as the homeland of the Jewish people, that land came to be the site of conflict between the Palestinians and Zionists. Thus, at the core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, '''at its current stage''', is a disputed but shared territory - that of Mandatory Palestine", notice the "current stage" meaning today, Mandate Palestine doesn't exist today, the territory of Mandate Palestine is the same as Israel + West Bank and Gaza. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 14:55, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::"Land of Israel" and "Palestine" are not the same as the "territory of Israel". Yes, notice the "since the early 1880s". What did "Land of Israel" mean then? What did "Palestine"? Are they the same as the territory of Israel? Obviously not. Also a dispute over the territory of the Mandate doesn't mean that the territory of Israel is under dispute. You are trying to force an interpretation of the sources to fit the POV you're trying to push. You do this quite a bit, which is why you once again found yourself here. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 15:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::So what is "contemporary" for? In this context it is referring to the same territory of Israel. But the source doesn't say there is a dispute over Mandate Palestine The End!, it says: "at its current stage", you are not addressing the issues in its full context. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 15:33, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::I am certainly addressing the issue in its full context. You have not supplied a single source that says Israel is a "disputed territory", you are just interpreting the sources to fit the POV you regularly push all over this encyclopedia. What happened to the "worldview" you regularly use when it fits your agenda? Israel is not a "disputed territory". It's a sovereign state, recognized by the vast majority of other states. While I understand you think you can change reality by editing wikipedia, I really hope the admins are going to put a stop to that kind of thing. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 17:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::No you are not. I have supplied sources and you are choosing not to accept what they say. Thats not the same thing, has the international community voted if its a disputed territory or not, and the conclusion is that its not? The Hatay Province is also disputed and has disputed cats in its article, though there is only one country disputing the area as Turkish. This doesn't mean the area is not Turkey, per the international view. Israel being a sovereign state doesn't contradict that its disputed. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 17:26, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

::::Ugh, you guys write a lot, and I had too many [[Guinness|beers]] last night. Anyways, NMMNG, I don't think any Arab country claims the land that is currently Israel, but I do think that certain Arab groups do - namely, the Palestinians. I completely agree that a majority of countries recognize Israel, so that's something we should consider.
::::What are your thoughts on the [[State of Palestine]] though? As far as I know, no country currently claims the West Bank. And the majority of countries in the world recognize a State of Palestine. The bigger question for me is why to include the disputed category in that article, while keeping it out of the article on Israel. You could say "Oh, Israel is recognized by 170 countries, while 'Palestine' is only recognized by 120, and the bar for using this category should be 150 countries", but I just haven't seen anyone try to quantitatively set that bar. ←&nbsp;[[User:George|<span style="color:#333;font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:bold">George</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:George|<small style="color:#dc143c;">talk</small>]]</sup> 17:35, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::The Palestinians, through the PLO, their "sole legitimate representative" at the time, recognized Israel. That means there's at least ''some'' territory in Israel they don't dispute.
:::::I'm not really sure what the status of SoP is. That question will be easier to answer if the UN accepts it as a member in September. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 18:40, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Sure, some Arabs, including some Palestinians, recognize Israel. And others don't, but the point I'm trying to get at is that I consider that discussion a valid ''content'' dispute. I don't think it's fair to label SD's edits as "antisemitic propaganda".
::::::Obviously we've all been editing in this space for a while, and clearly some editors have a pro-Israeli bias, while others have a pro-Palestinian or pro-Arab bias. I consider SD to be in the latter group, and editors like yourself and Jaakobou, with respect, to be in the former. That's not to say you guys don't all contribute in good and meaningful ways to the project, because we all have some bias - some favorite place, food, or sports team. But ''having'' a bias is different than ''pushing'' a bias, and while I completely understand why editors disagree with the content of SD's edits in the diffs above (they don't reflect my own viewpoint), I don't see enough evidence in those diffs to make me say SD crossed that line to the point that he was ''pushing'' his views. Per [[WP:POVPUSH]], "Editing a POV in an article that corresponds with one's own personal beliefs is not necessarily POV-pushing." My two cents, anyways. ←&nbsp;[[User:George|<span style="color:#333;font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:bold">George</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:George|<small style="color:#dc143c;">talk</small>]]</sup> 23:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Defining Israel as a territory rather than a state, by someone who has in the past made statements about the illegitimacy of Israel and who regularly insists that a vote in the United Nations equals the "worldview" (and thus the majority view per wikipedia policy) is precisely the kind of POV pushing wikipedia should not be tolerating. Calling it "antisemitic propaganda" might be going to far, but there's little doubt what he's trying to do here. Considering his history, I think admin action would be appropriate. [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 09:50, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Did SD push the edit? As part of BRD, he should have made his edit, and then opened a discussion if (and when) it was reverted. Did he revert someone else reverting him? I honestly don't know and haven't looked at the page history. While the initial edit itself wouldn't have been POV-pushing, if he had been reverted and then ''re''-added it, that could indeed constitute POV-pushing. ←&nbsp;[[User:George|<span style="color:#333;font-variant:small-caps;font-weight:bold">George</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:George|<small style="color:#dc143c;">talk</small>]]</sup> 17:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by Malik Shabazz
My recommendation is to sanction Supreme Deliciousness. Had she thought for a moment that Israel belonged in the same category as the [[Republic of China]] or [[Republic of Kosovo]], that of states with limited recognition, she would have put Israel into the category that includes those articles. The fact is, little or no thought went into this categorization.

I also strongly encourage the closing admins to review Jaakobou's comments carefully. Jaakobou all but calls Supreme Deliciousness a Holocaust denier and antisemite. I believe Jaakobou should be sanctioned for his behavior. —&nbsp;[[User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Malik Shabazz|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|Stalk]]</sub> 03:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:I made one single edit (not a revert), adding a category that several people say is correct and that is backed up by sources, and I have opened a discussion and participated at the talkpage while both users who reverted it and removed the category has not said one single word at the talkpage. When did I say that I believed Israel belonged in the same category as the [[Republic of China]] or [[Republic of Kosovo]]? I don't know anything about Republic of China or Republic of Kosovo or the issues with them, they both have the Category:Unrecognized or largely unrecognized states, why would I ad this category to the Israel article? Israel is a very widely recognized country and if I had added this category, it would have been incorrect and someone would probably have opened enforcement about me.--[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 07:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

::Malik Shabazz,
::I have to apologize. While I had no such intentions, I clearly phrased myself carelessly and in poor form. See my above note for further acknowledgement of the mistake.
::Supreme Deliciousness,
::I would like to apologize personally. My phrasing was a bit scattered minded and of clearly poor form and I apologize that it could have been seen as a personal attack on your character. My dispute is with naive notion that the origins of concern are valid for encyclopaedic content and at no point did I intend on suggesting anything beyond that. Seeing as I have used poor form, I amended my phrasing and reiterate my apology again.
::With respect, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 11:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

;Comment by Gatoclass

I can't see much that is sanctionable here. SD has not edit warred, there are just two edits on two separate pages and I think they would probably come under [[WP:BRD]]. The Israel category is contentious but again, I don't see why BRD should not apply. Users are entitled to do ''some'' editing, and occasionally to make errors of judgement, without fear of sanction. I do however agree that the Golan Heights issue could use some more discussion, and I think SD should refrain from making edits on that topic unless or until it becomes clear that consensus is unachievable, in which case, some other course of action will be required. [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 13:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
:Editors are allowed to make errors in judgment, but SD seems to make them quite often and they always have something in common. Can you guess what it is? [[User:No More Mr Nice Guy|No More Mr Nice Guy]] ([[User talk:No More Mr Nice Guy|talk]]) 15:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
::I'm making two guesses: firstly, that you're hinting that SD is antisemitic (in which case, why not just state it rather than making snide hints); secondly, that some of the errors of judgement you're referring to are actually attempts to present the pro-Israeli point of view more neutrally. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 13:32, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

===Result concerning Supreme Deliciousness===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
* Supreme Deliciousness: You say above that you had reliable sources for your edit to [[Israel]] which added the "disputed countries" category. What specifically were your sources, did you cite those sources in your edit, and did you discuss such a major change on the talk page beforehand? [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 22:20, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
*My feeling is that this will continue to come up until something is done. [[User:Enigmaman|'''<font color="blue">Enigma</font>''']]<sup>[[User talk:Enigmaman|''<font color="#FFA500">msg</font>'']]</sup> 13:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Wikifan12345 ==

<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&oldid=349940199#Motions_regarding_Trusilver_and_Arbitration_Enforcement this 2010 ArbCom motion]. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small>

; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Wikifan12345}} – [[User:Wikifan12345|Wikifan12345]] ([[User talk:Wikifan12345|talk]]) 18:53, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

; Sanction being appealed : 8 month topic ban under the authority of [[WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions]]. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=400141769&oldid=400135841 original AE thread.]

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Timotheus Canens}}

; Notification of that administrator : ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Timotheus_Canens#Appeal_notice notified]''

===Statement by Wikifan12345===

The topic ban was imposed on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wikifan12345/Archive_8#Topic_ban December 2nd 2010]. I have
served approximately 5 and a half months of my original sentence. Following my ban, I spent more time editing less controversial areas of Wikipedia. I have created [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Wikifan12345 several articles] and devoted some of my time at [[Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests]] and providing third opinions at [[Talk:St. Bernard (dog)]] and [[Talk:Airbreathing jet engine]].

My original ban involved quite a bit of drama, as can been seen by the lengthy talk discussion at [[Norman Finkelstein]] and the AE thread. I really can't defend my edits there. I know I have had a lot of problems dealing with users I disagreed with and accepting the consensus. I obviously have a passion for [[Israel]] related topics and my emotional investment has corrupted my judgement and ability to edit in a neutral fashion. But I have contributed positively to many other articles in I/P area, such as [[Arab-Israeli conflict]], [[Israel-Palestinian conflict]] and creating the articles [[Palestinian casualties of war]] and [[Israel casualties of war]].

I don't think it would be fair to reverse my ban entirely, but considering my relatively conflict-free history and positive contributions to other areas of wikipedia since December perhaps the punishment could be modified? Maybe reduce the topic ban to an article ban at [[Norman Finkelstein]] (the original area of dispute) for the remainder of my ban and place my account on probationary status. If there are other articles admins/editors think I should be banned from I'm open to that as well. In the event of future conflicts during my ban if they were to arise, my account would be banned from the Israeli-Arab area permanently. And of course restrictions on reverts if necessary.

I feel I'm ready for this. I would like to polish [[Israeli casualties of war]] and [[Palestinian casualties of war]] which have been neglected for the most part since my ban. I don't plan on getting into a huge argument about my past history here because I know a lot of editors would be opposed to any modification of my ban. I take '''full responsibility''' for my previous actions and behaviors. Also, for clarity it should be noted two AE were filed against me during my topic ban. The first by [[User:Passionless]] (a sockpuppet) which was dismissed without prejudice. The other AE was also [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive86#Wikifan12345 dismissed] according to this rationale: "A technical infringement of the topic ban, but assumed to be a genuine error. Accordingly, this request is closed without prejudice to any future appeal."

Anyways, I appreciate all comments and criticism. I don't want to get into a huge argument, so if editors/admins have questions be specific as you can. I've seen a lot of these appeals bubble into comical trolling and drama.

If this ban is modified, I can promise I won't be spending as much time on Israel/Arab topics as before. But I would like to have the freedom to edit some articles when I'm not busy dealing with issues in real life. :D

Thank you.

@AKG Yes that was the original AE and it was dismissed as noted above. I only provided a brief comment in the AFD and did not contribute to the article at all. I didn't realize the article was under Arab/Israeli review. The admin closing the AE did so without prejudice so it shouldn't be held against me here I think right? [[User:Wikifan12345|Wikifan12345]] ([[User talk:Wikifan12345|talk]]) 02:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

@Ncmvocalist Yes good questions. As I am here to appeal my topic ban and not defend my previous edits, I'll defer to the admins responsibility for implementing the ban:
<blockquote>It is time to close this. It is my view that a long topic ban is needed to prevent further disruption to this already fragile editing environment. If good work in other areas can be demonstrated, we can always lift the ban early on appeal, but given the history here, the ban should stay until shown to be no longer needed.</blockquote> - [[User:Timotheus Canens]]

<blockquote>Obviously, if after 3 months Wikifan12345 can show a track record of responsible editing, then we could review the situation.</blockquote> - [[User:PhilKnight]]

Full quotations can be found at linked AE thread above.

I have made a strong effort collaborating in less-controversial areas successfully. I have devoted much time to editor assistance boards, provided numerous third opinions, created articles, etc..etc. If you have the time to look at my 3 or 4 year history on Wikipedia, you will see I've spent a lot of serious time collaborating on articles and most of my edits are sound. The issues seem to be unique to talk discussions, which those familiar with I/P can mutate overnight.

The incident at the AE emerged at [[Norman Finkelstein]]. I had worked on numerous other conflict-related articles - [[Hamas]], [[Palestinian Liberation Organization]], [[Economy of Palestine]], [[Israel]], [[List of modern conflicts in the Middle East]] (created) [[Arab-Israeli conflict]], and of course [[Palestinian casualties of war]] and [[Israeli casualties of war]] which involved many hours of meticulous study and editing.

Like I said before, I don't intend on editing [[Norman Finkelstein]] and prefer to avoid articles that draw a lot of drama. So, perhaps a more narrow ban could be implemented - exclusive to Finkelstein, probationary status, etc. It seems other editors have been granted modified appeals.

As far as I can see, a lot of editors who appeal their bans do so to return to articles they previously engaged in conflict in. I have no such desire but would be open to the freedom to access articles on the general Arab/Israel/Middle East area - which is a very broad and large subject of articles. I have contributed several thousand edits to conflict-related articles, the vast majority of which remain.

I can't tell right now how this appeal will play out from here - uninvolved editors and admins look like they're on the fence. I don't want this appeal to drag out too long. If admins truly think this appeal has no merit, I won't protest a close. [[User:Wikifan12345|Wikifan12345]] ([[User talk:Wikifan12345|talk]]) 10:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

@EdJohnston

Is the appealing process exclusive only to uninvolved admins (with the exception of the administrator for implementing the ban)? You were part of the original arbitration enforcement results discussion. Anyways, I'm not here to defend edits may prior to December 2010. The mentorship you referred to was actually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wikifan12345#Mentorship renewed with GimmeDanger] but ended later. From what I gather the appealing process is very narrow. I'm not sure if edits made prior to block fit within the parameters. I've never made an appeal before so consider this comments noobish!

AKG statement is fair but like I said the AE was dismissed '''without prejudice''' from the closing admin so I'm almost certain it shouldn't be used as evidence here.

I've taken the recommendations from Tim and Phil very seriously and have made a strident effort in adjusting and improving my behavior. I know a lot of editors simply drop off the radar if they're banned from their favorite genre but since December I've spent many hours on assistance boards, third opinions, creating articles, collaborating, etc...

In my ''biased'' opinion I can't say another 2.5 months will add much to my editing quality. For clarity, I am requesting a ''modified'' appeal, exclusive to Norman Finkelstein and other articles admins may consider problematic. Thank you [[User:Wikifan12345|Wikifan12345]] ([[User talk:Wikifan12345|talk]]) 20:36, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

@Timotheus Canens
Was that AE not closed ''without '''prejudice'''''? Is there any sanctioned behavioral issues since December 2010? I encourage observers to look at my edits described above and contributions made over the last five months. In any case, if a '''modified appeal''' is not considered appropriate then this should be closed. However, rather than deferring to prior, dismissed AEs - perhaps a more specific reasoning could be provided? It would help me understand what I am doing wrong which will improve my performance after my ban runs up in August. Thanks. [[User:Wikifan12345|Wikifan12345]] ([[User talk:Wikifan12345|talk]]) 00:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

===Statement by Timotheus Canens===
In light of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=420364463 this], and the fact that the original ban was imposed after a discussion and supported by several uninvolved administrators, I don't feel comfortable granting the appeal myself. If consensus is that the ban is no longer serving any purpose, of course, I'll not stand in the way, either. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 20:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

===Statement by (involved editor 1)===
;statement by Broccolo
I am supporting the appeal. The user has served more than half of the time of his topic ban. Bans are not used as punishment. They used only as prevention of disruption. At this point there is no reason to believe this editor will be disruptive while editing the topic, and if he is he will be topic banned again. [[User:ברוקולי|Broccolo]] ([[User talk:ברוקולי|talk]]) 18:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Wikifan12345 ===
* I'm also ambivalent, and I'm not comfortable granting this appeal - at least based on what I've looked at so far.
* Wikifan, I don't understand why you are making this appeal. Irrespective of the restriction expiring (in July?) or being relaxed as a result of an appeal (now), any further problems would lead to the same result: an indefinite restriction, possibly subject to a clause that limits appeals to 1 per year. You've stated you made a few positive contributions in the area...but was this not at a time where your other contributions in the area were deemed to be not so positive (to the point that they outweighed the positive and resulted in the restrictions you've received)? And is it a good idea for the project to let you back in this area of conflict at a time where there is less going on in your RL, and therefore, less to force you to leave the area (particularly at the moments when you become too "emotionally invested")? [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 10:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
@AGK, you say ''I am ... disinclined to decline...'' I think this means ''inclined to accept''. It seems inconsistent with the recommendation to reject. - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

===Result of the appeal by Wikifan12345===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
*{{tq|Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.}} That isn't what arbitration enforcement is for. Have you opened an RFC on the sourcing disagreement? [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 15:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
*After reviewing the users contributions since the topic ban, I have to say that I am ambivalent about granting this request. While he has largely stayed out of trouble and generally abided by the restriction, there is still some evidence of a battle-ground mentality. If the appeal is granted a narrower ban on I-P conflict related BLP's should probably be left to run the original duration. [[User:Eluchil404|Eluchil404]] ([[User talk:Eluchil404|talk]]) 03:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


====Clerk notes (Petextrodon)====
* I am grateful to Wikifan for contributing positively in the time since he was topic-banned. But I am always disinclined to decline requests for the early lifting of sanctions, because it makes it more difficult to determine when to grant subsequent appeals for early-removal from other editors, and because, as a matter of experience, it rarely results in much benefit. I also cannot help but notice that Wikifan contributed to the AFD at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accusations of Arab Apartheid]] in March 2011, which unless I am mistaken is in violation of his topic ban. I would reject this appeal. [[User talk:AGK|<font color="black">'''AGK'''</font>]]<small> <nowiki>[</nowikI>[[User:AGK|&bull;]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 22:25, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
* {{u|Petextrodon}}, you are at your word limit. Please do not respond further unless you've trimmed some words or been granted an extension. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 02:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
*:{{u|Petextrodon}}, you can have an additional 105 words. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers|contribs]]) 18:51, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
*This looks to me like a content dispute. I do not see any action for AE to take here, as we can't resolve those. That said, I see that this same editor has now filed another AE request below on what ''also'' appears to be a content dispute, so I think we should evaluate there whether that conduct is reaching the point of disruption. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 23:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


==76.53.254.138==
*I agree with AGK that the appeal should be declined. The purpose of gradually-escalating ban durations is to ensure that people who are repeatedly sanctioned wind up spending less and less time editing in the area. I do remember the original dispute at [[Norman Finkelstein]], and the resulting ban was not without good reason. As recently as September 2010 Wikifan was dropped by his mentor, "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wikifan12345/Archive_7#Mentorship_ended I don't want to be associated with your continued misbehavior]." [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 20:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
{{hat|76.53.254.138 blocked 2 weeks by {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}}. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 23:33, 8 May 2024 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning 76.53.254.138===
== Kehrli ==
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|The Kip}} 02:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|76.53.254.138}}<p>{{ds/log|76.53.254.138}}</p>
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


===Request concerning Kehrli===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:Kkmurray|Kkmurray]] ([[User talk:Kkmurray|talk]]) 16:06, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions|ARBPIA extended-confirmed sanction]]
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Kehrli}}

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: "''Kehrli is indefinitely topic banned from metrology-related articles, broadly defined, including talk pages and discussions.''" - [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kehrli_2#Kehrli_topic_banned]]


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
User initially began editing as an IP in the [[WP:ARBPIA|ARBPIA]] area some time ago, sometimes disruptively:
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Lightbot_10&diff=prev&oldid=430328241 05:43, May 22, 2011] - [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Lightbot 10|Lightbot 10]] performs "Janitorial edits to units" and is in effect a "metrology bot."
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)&diff=prev&oldid=430340156 07:40, May 22, 2011] - [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)]] is a talk page related to metrology.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=25th_anniversary_of_Hamas&diff=prev&oldid=1198067521 22:21 January 24]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iranian_seizure_of_the_MSC_Aries&diff=prev&oldid=1219118692 21:15 April 15]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Killing_of_Benjamin_Achimeir&diff=prev&oldid=1221598432 21:23 April 30]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_attack_on_the_Israeli_Embassy_in_Egypt&diff=prev&oldid=1221752748 19:51 May 1]


After being issued the CTOP warning on May 1 (linked below), and despite being specifically warned of the [[WP:ECR|ECR restriction]], they've resumed editing within the ARBPIA topic area, primarily in the [[WP:CE|current events portal]]:
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Current_events/2024_May_6&diff=prev&oldid=1222593743 20:35 May 6]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Current_events/2024_May_5&diff=prev&oldid=1222594614 20:41 May 6]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Current_events/2024_May_3&diff=prev&oldid=1222597652 21:00 May 6]
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falaq-1&diff=prev&oldid=1222597956 21:02 May 6]


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) :

Warning and/or 24 hour block.
;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
* Notified of A-I CTOP restrictions on [[Special:Diff/1221761989|May 1 at 21:03]]; I added a note to the end disclosing that as an IP editor, they're not allowed to edit in the topic area until they [[WP:XC|register an account and reach 500 edits]].


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
The IP in question has exhibited other generally disruptive behaviors over the past several months, both within and outside the ARBPIA area:
Kehrli appears to dispute the topic ban remedy here [[User_talk:David_Fuchs#My_ban]] with response here [[User_talk:Kehrli#Your_ban]].
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atomic_mass&diff=prev&oldid=1212239535 Added nonsense] to [[Atomic mass]] (later [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A76.53.254.138&diff=1212239992&oldid=1211862449 warned] about vandalism)
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_2022_FIFA_World_Cup_controversies&diff=prev&oldid=1211862370 Made a bunch of disruptive edits] on [[List of 2022 FIFA World Cup controversies]], under the summary of "neutral" or "fine as it was," leading to the page being [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_2022_FIFA_World_Cup_controversies&diff=1211945162&oldid=1211944940 protected] on March 5.
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Don_Budge&diff=prev&oldid=1213862255 Made another nonsense edit] on [[Don Budge]] (later [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:76.53.254.138&diff=next&oldid=1212239992 warned] about vandalism)
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleimani&action=history Has been engaged in] a slow-motion [[WP:EW|edit war]] with multiple users at [[Assassination of Qasem Soleimani]].
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Norske_jenter_omskj%C3%A6res&diff=prev&oldid=1221421988 Euphemized] much of the content at ''[[Norske jenter omskjæres]]'', where they also engaged in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Norske_jenter_omskj%C3%A6res&action=history an extremely-slow edit war].
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Rafah&action=history Another] slow edit war at [[Battle of Rafah]].


Many of their other edits exhibit a strong [[WP:POV|POV]] that they've attempted to push through via some of the aforementioned slow-motion edit wars.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kehrli&diff=prev&oldid=430365043 11:08, May 22, 2011]


Overall, they've seemingly disregarded the CTOP warning issued to continue editing in an area they're not allowed to, and have a history of disruptive editing otherwise. They've avoided a block up to this point.
===Discussion concerning Kehrli===


I apologize if this should've gone to [[WP:ANI]] due to it being an IP, but I figured AE was the correct location given the bulk of the edits being in an arb-restricted area. [[User:The Kip|<span style="color:#333f42;">'''The'''</span>]] [[User talk:The Kip|<span style="color:#b4975a;">'''Kip'''</span>]] 02:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
====Statement by Kehrli====


:@[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] Sounds good. Please do let me know if IP issues are better-served by ANI - I wasn’t quite sure in making this report, to be honest. [[User:The Kip|<span style="color:#333f42;">'''The'''</span>]] [[User talk:The Kip|<span style="color:#b4975a;">'''Kip'''</span>]] 21:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
====Comments by others about the request concerning Kehrli ====
As an aside to Kkmurray, I will note that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kehrli&diff=430367372&oldid=430365043 I moved his notification] to Kehrli of this request to its own, new, separate section on Kehrli's talk page, and would encourage him to make this his standard practice for such notifications in the future. While it might seem logical to place such notices in the same talk page section as the notice of the Arbcom case closure, it can sometimes be difficult for a user to see exactly what has been changed on his talk page, or to catch a new one-line notice added to a three-month-old thread. Not all editors are aware that they can check the talk page's history to locate all new comments, nor are they sufficiently diligent to do so&mdash;nor should they be expected to be.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
At first blush, I was inclined to dismiss this request with a warning to Kehrli. While the diffs provided do include metrology-related content and therefore represent a technical violation of his ban, the edits don't relate even tangentially to the locus of this arbitration case (the use of Kendrick units). Further, the edits are to discussions relating to bots and the Manual of Style, so it might be that Kehrli felt his ban (on edits to ''articles'' and related discussion pages) didn't strictly apply.
* [[Special:Diff/1222643549|Notified at time of report]].


===Discussion concerning 76.53.254.138===
That said, such an interpretation would be ''incorrect'', and Kehrli should be firmly discouraged from relying on any similar reasoning in the future. Discussions relating to style guidelines or bot activities very much pertain to articles in the context of any "broadly construed" arbitration remedy. That the effect of these discussions is general and to a broad class of articles and article content rather than to specific, individual articles is immaterial.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by 76.53.254.138====
On further examination, I note that Kehrli has made very few edits to Wikipedia since the closure of the arbitration case imposing this remedy. Looking at his editing history, it would appear that his only edits since the case's closure in March have been to dispute the legitimacy of the ban with an arbitrator, and then to violate the ban with the noted edits a few hours later. This is not a promising pattern of conduct.


====Statement by (username)====
Finally, it is worrying that this is not the first arbitration case in which Kehrli was the subject. [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kehrli]] closed in 2006, involving a similar dispute: appropriate choices of terminology in measurement. In that case, the ArbCom applied time-limited (now-expired) and more-specific article and notation-changing bans; I presume that this previous case is the reason why the Arbcom chose to impose a broader topic ban this time around. While a reasonable argument ''might'' be made that the current case's remedy could have been more narrowly-crafted, one's first edits post-case are not the best place to try to demand that change, nor is it wise to immediately violate the existing ban. Kehrli needs to build a record of uncontentious, constructive editing within the framework of the existing remedies &ndash; probably for several months at least &ndash; ''before'' he tries to lodge any appeal. [[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]]([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]) 17:51, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Kehrli===
===Result concerning 76.53.254.138===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
*Blocked two weeks. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 18:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*I think the block is really all we can do; it's pretty pointless to apply CT sanctions other than blocks to IPs. Unless anyone shortly objects I'll close this as resolved. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 21:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

*:{{u|The Kip}}, you didn't do anything wrong here, and if IP editors are behaving disruptively in CT-covered areas, you can certainly report it here. There are other general tools in our toolbox, like revert restrictions and long-term semiprotection or EC, that we can use if there's severe and ongoing disruption from anonymous editors. There's just not much point placing CT restrictions besides blocks on individual IPs, since IPs are subject to change at any time. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 23:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
I agree that the two diffs supplied with this complaint show that Kehrli was commenting on talk pages related to metrology. So a warning plus a 24-hour block would be appropriate. The talk exchange at [[User talk:David Fuchs#My ban]] and [[User talk:Kehrli#Your ban]] suggests that the prospects for any actual negotiation with Kehrli would be slim to none. He does not appear to be listening. There was a previous case at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kehrli]] in 2006 so there is no learning curve here. We should be prepared to use longer blocks if the problem continues. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 20:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
{{hab}}

This was a clear violation of the restriction, but I don't have a good feel for what an "appropriate length" would be for any block. There doesn't appear to be any ongoing disruption but equally there isn't any evidence that Kehrli has understood the need to change his behaviour. [[User:Eluchil404|Eluchil404]] ([[User talk:Eluchil404|talk]]) 04:51, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I would say that there's an unambiguous consensus (indeed, unanimous agreement) that Kehrli violated the terms of this topic ban. As Eluchil404 says, our only difficult question is the appropriate response. Since Kehrli edits infrequently, the usual response to a first offence &ndash; something in the neighborhood of a 24-hour block &ndash; would be of negligible practical effect. Since Kehrli hasn't made any contributions to Wikipedia since the edits at issue in this request were made three days ago, a 24-hour block applied when this request was filed would have had no impact whatsoever on him. I'm reluctant to apply a perfunctory ''pro forma'' block just for the purpose of creating a block log entry, and I'm hesitant to punitively apply a much longer block (a week or more, say) just to be 'sure' that he knows he's been blocked. On the other hand, we should strive to avoid giving the impression that topic-banned individuals can freely evade their editing restrictions so long as they edit infrequently. Would it be a reasonable solution to advise Kehrli through his talk page that his edits violated the terms of his ban; that he could have been blocked for them, though he won't be this time as we are giving him the benefit of the doubt; but that future violations will result in much longer blocks (as they would have anyway if he ''had'' received a block here). He should also be strongly encouraged to seek the advice of an experienced editor (or file a request for clarification) before making any edits he thinks even ''might'' touch on his topic ban. We can add a suitable notation to the log of blocks and restrictions on the case page so that admins involved in future enforcement requests will be aware of the circumstances. Thoughts? [[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]]([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]) 14:06, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


==Oz346==
== Rms125a@hotmail.com ==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Oz346===
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Cossde}} 12:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Oz346}}<p>{{ds/log|Oz346}}</p>
===Request concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:O Fenian|O Fenian]] ([[User talk:O Fenian|talk]]) 08:23, 23 May 2011 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rms125a@hotmail.com}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case]]
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka]]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]], or groundless or [[vexatious]] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Glenanne_gang&action=historysubmit&diff=430392177&oldid=430383738 19:14, 22 May 2011] Revert 1
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Glenanne_gang&action=historysubmit&diff=430432223&oldid=430417417 00:14, 23 May 2011] Revert 2, within 24 hours of the first


#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamil_genocide&diff=prev&oldid=1222868403 8 May 2024] Disruptive editing by reverting changes by another editor
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamil_genocide&diff=prev&oldid=1222863401 8 May 2024] Disruptive editing by reverting changes by another editor
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARms125a%40hotmail.com&action=historysubmit&diff=394026390&oldid=393944552 19:28, 31 October 2010] by {{user|Domer48}}
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lankan_Civil_War&diff=prev&oldid=1222515416 6 May 2024] Disruptive editing by POV Pushing
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lankan_Civil_War&diff=prev&oldid=1222511499 6 May 2024] Disruptive editing by POV Pushing
#[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_attacks_on_civilians_attributed_to_Sri_Lankan_government_forces&diff=prev&oldid=1221339905 29 April 2024] Reverting citing reverts disruptive editing and vandalism


;If [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics|contentious topics restrictions]] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see [[WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics]]):
;Enforcement action requested ([[WP:BP|block]], [[WP:BAN|topic ban]] or [[WP:SANCTION|other sanction]]) : Block
* Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Editor is well aware of Troubles restrictions, having been on Troubles probation as part of their unbanning conditions.
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARms125a%40hotmail.com&action=historysubmit&diff=430477380&oldid=429399915]

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com===
====Statement by Rms125a@hotmail.com====
I did not realize that the article in question was under [[WP:1RR]] and thus that making two edits within 24 hours would be a violation of any policy, especially as the latter edit was in response to a claim of original research, to which I responded by providing a valid reflink. I also know that, as they say in the real world, "ignorance of the law is no excuse". I strongly believe this enforcement <s>action</s> request is an extreme example of overreach and overreaction by its initiator, possibly out of malice.

Also, I was not "well aware" of
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles#Final_remedies_for_AE_case the 1RR rule as part of any Arbcom decision], as [[User:O Fenian|O Fenian]] claims, and he cannot speak to what I am aware or unaware of. A cursory examination will confirm that I was not present at that Arbcom hearing in which the 1RR rule was developed '''as I was banned at the time''', although some 40 or so other editors, from both pro-IRA and anti-IRA sides of the edit wars, were present.

It's true that [[User:Domer48]] left me a warning seven months or so ago, on October 31, 2010, in which he referenced the 1RR rule which I unknowingly violated, however he (Domer) did so using his signature (<font face="Celtic">[[User:Domer48|<span style="color:#009900"><strong>Domer48</strong></span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Domer48|<span style="color:#006600">'fenian'</span>]]''</sub></font>), which is not the same as his username, and which I regard as a pro-IRA username (just as I do [[User:O Fenian|O Fenian]], about whose username I once lodged a complaint with [[WP:ANI]], but to no avail.) I left Domer a message, politely asking him not to sign any messages on my talk page with this offensive signature, which I believe was a reasonable request. He did not respond but immediately deleted my request from his talkpage; I did likewise with his message on my talk page, without really examining it. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=50&tagFilter=&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Rms125a%40hotmail.com&namespace=&tagfilter=&year=2010&month=10], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rms125a@hotmail.com&diff=prev&oldid=394068428]. I understand this was probably foolish on my part, but I have never trusted Domer anyway, and gauged his agenda from the first days he started editing. I also know it is rarely a good idea to volunteer extraneous information, especially given Mr. Johnston's kind comments, but I am doing so in the hopes of showing how my poor relationship with certain other editors have helped land me here, and to provide a backdrop in the event other editors may leave negative comments.

I hope whichever administrator rules here will temper justice with mercy, as, aside from this example of misjudgment on my part, I have been in compliance with my Arbcom unban agreement, which is more than two (2) years old, during which time I have not been blocked even once, for any duration, and have, in fact, received accolades from many of my peers<s> although no Barnstars yet, either.</s> I have been grateful for the Arbcom agreement as it has allowed me to work to improve Wikipedia, and I would not intentionally dishonor or abuse it.
[[User:Rms125a@hotmail.com|Rms125a@hotmail.com]] ([[User talk:Rms125a@hotmail.com|talk]]) 04:10, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
:Fine -- I will take a voluntary break from editing or commenting on all [[WP:TROUBLES]] articles for a month effective immediately. [[User:Rms125a@hotmail.com|Rms125a@hotmail.com]] ([[User talk:Rms125a@hotmail.com|talk]]) 15:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
::I would just like to add that this has been a stressful experience and I hope this matter be can be closed expeditiously. While I am willing to defend against what I view as a frivolous and malicious action, I also believe the above-suggested voluntary topic break proposal by [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] is fair and reasonable. [[User:Rms125a@hotmail.com|Rms125a@hotmail.com]] ([[User talk:Rms125a@hotmail.com|talk]]) 16:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
:::: I thank you both. I would like, if I may, just to point out that I was not "living in a closet". I explained above that I was never privy to the decision which instated the 1RR ruling (I was banned at that time, in fact). I also explained above, in the interests of transparency, how the warning from Domer48 re [[Emma Groves]] (from 7 months ago), to which I should have paid more attention, came to be overlooked. I accept and acknowledge my responsibilities and shortcomings. I am sorry that my desire to clearly illustrate my relations with the other editors in this ARE has been misinterpreted. I also accept that your (presumably joint) opinion that this was not a frivolous and/or malicious action is the only opinion that counts. My agreement or disagreement with that is irrelevant. Thank you again [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] and [[User:SarekOfVulcan|SarekOfVulcan]] for your fairness in this matter. I will contact either one of you (or both) after a month has elapsed before editing anything which could be considered related to [[The Troubles]] to ensure there are no misunderstandings. Sincerely, [[User:Rms125a@hotmail.com|Rms125a@hotmail.com]] ([[User talk:Rms125a@hotmail.com|talk]]) 18:14, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com ====

===Result concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
People have been referring to past agreements, above. I did see two related threads at ANI:
*[[WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive451#Proposed conditional unban of User:Rms125a@hotmail.com]] and
*[[WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive512#Unban proposal for Rms125a@hotmail.com / User:Robert Sieger]].
There is a page at [[User:Eliz81/RMS]] that could be what people are calling the 'unban agreement.'
There was also this recent discussion:
*[[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive673#User:Rms125a@hotmail.com]]
but I don't think it changed anything. If the case of this user was ever considered by Arbcom, somebody should link to that. I suspect he was on Troubles probation at one time (per [[User:Eliz81/RMS]]), but that should have expired by the end of 2009.
*I would not be inclined to take any action on this 1RR violation, after seeing the editor's statement, unless there is evidence of a pattern (in the last few months), or unless it violates an agreement which is still in effect. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 02:05, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
::@Rms125: I'm afraid your [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&action=historysubmit&diff=430623446&oldid=430611092 expanded statement], as you predicted, did make things worse. Would you agree to take a voluntary break from editing or commenting on all [[WP:TROUBLES]] articles for a month? [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 04:25, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
*Rms125a, this is not a frivolous or malicious action, it is a simple complaint of a 1RR violation. It's hard to believe you were unaware of the Troubles 1RR restriction, unless you've been living in a closet. In the light of your agreeement, I recommend the request be closed with no block. Instead, there should be a recording of this agreement in the [[WP:TROUBLES]] log, and a warning of the possibility of Troubles probation in the future. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 16:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
**'''Support''' EdJohnston's recommendation. --[[User:SarekOfVulcan|SarekOfVulcan]] ([[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|talk]]) 17:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

== MarshallBagramyan ==

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''

===Request concerning MarshallBagramyan===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : [[User:Angel670|<font color="#FF0090" face="Papyrus">'''Angel670'''</font>]] [[User talk:Angel670|<font color="#FF0090" face="Papyrus">'''talk'''</font>]] 19:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|MarshallBagramyan}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [[Wikipedia:AA2#Amended_Remedies_and_Enforcement]]
*Violation of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarshallBagramyan&action=historysubmit&diff=411875831&oldid=411637674 indefinite parole stated here]
*Violation of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarshallBagramyan&action=historysubmit&diff=375041330&oldid=373778081 topic ban for three months]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; [[WP:DIFF|Diffs]] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMalibeyli_and_Gushchular_Massacre&action=historysubmit&diff=430376750&oldid=430373090 22 May] The editor MB has explicitly violated his indefinite restriction stipulated in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarshallBagramyan&action=historysubmit&diff=411875831&oldid=411637674 this sanction] making comments on the Azeri scholar and historian, and his book: ''And the final source, that by Kocharli and published in Baku, seems to be the exact kind of sources we should be avoiding to use.''
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMalibeyli_and_Gushchular_Massacre&action=historysubmit&diff=430579499&oldid=430567830 23 May] In this comment he made a more derogatory comment about the author, his country and profession in qoutation marks saying ''And I'm sorry, but Kocharli who? Writing in a country where it is practically a crime to contradict state dogma and national narratives. Are we really going to trust an author who, according to his Wikipedia entry, penned a work called ''Armenian Falsifications''? He's precisely the type of "historian" Western scholars have cautioned us not to consult. Kansas Bear has hit the nail on the head &ndash; no actual discussion is taking place and all our objections are simply being dismissed outright or ignored.''
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMalibeyli_and_Gushchular_Massacre&action=historysubmit&diff=430695218&oldid=430667152 24 May] Goes on with his comments on the authors: ''Kocharli doesn't appear to be a prolific author or someone who has at least received praise from any Western scholars, and his works should also be approached with caution because he worked in an area (modern history) which the Soviet Union guarded with extreme jealousy and later in a country which essentially dictated to him how events of the recent past had taken place. And I eventually got around reading all of Angel's comments but wasn't any more impressed''
#[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malatya&diff=prev&oldid=376021865 29 July 2010] (content dispute) and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hagia_Sophia&diff=prev&oldid=380547886 23 August 2010] - With these edits he has violated his topic ban [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarshallBagramyan&action=historysubmit&diff=375041330&oldid=373778081 set on 23 July 2010 for three months by administrator Sandstein] which would expire on 23 October 2010, but this was not reported and therefore overlooked. In comparison (to understand why his previous edit I posted before these lines are dispute content and why it differs from vandalism) he made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ani&diff=prev&oldid=378787563 this edit which is clear show of vandalism] and can be justified for a revert

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarshallBagramyan&action=historysubmit&diff=410644944&oldid=409524842 28 January] by {{user|Sandstein}}
#Warned on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MarshallBagramyan&diff=next&oldid=411637674 3 February] by {{user|Sandstein}}

;Enforcement action requested (longer [[WP:BP|block]], longer [[WP:BAN|topic ban]]) :
<!-- Tell us here what action you ask administrators to take. -->


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment you have here -->
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
The use has began a enagenging in [[WP:Disruptive editing]] and [[WP:BATTLE]] in the article [[Tamil genocide]]. There is an active dissucssion going on in the talk page, however Oz346 has engaged in reverting edits made by myself and another in the lead over a period of hours today without engagaging in the talk page. However he has made no objection to the changes made by Petextrodon, who has completly changed the lead without disscusing in the talk page nore as Oz346 has personaly made changes without disscussing it in the talk page himself. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 12:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
I have not studied his whole history, but seems like this user has been under sanctions many times and keeps violating them defying the opposing views and sources. Please review my evidence and take action. [[User:Angel670|<font color="#FF0090" face="Papyrus">'''Angel670'''</font>]] [[User talk:Angel670|<font color="#FF0090" face="Papyrus">'''talk'''</font>]] 19:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


@[[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] & @[[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]], it was not my intention to weaponizing AE, however if you feel my actions are such, feel free to sanction me as you see fit, as I am ready to accept responsibility for my actions.
:Ashot Arzumanyan, I don't think you understood the intent behind my line ''Author Hovann Simonian does not count at all as he is an Armenian''. It was an irony response to MarshallBagramyan's dismissal of sources based on their ethnic and geographic origination: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMalibeyli_and_Gushchular_Massacre&action=historysubmit&diff=426792419&oldid=405589956]. This means I outlined it to show the irony of Marshall's and his supporters' earlier comments. I have nothing against Armenian authors who write scholarly articles and books. In addition, you included Simonian as the reviewer of the neutral writer Charles van der Leeuw, whilst leaving the writers who had used his works as reference behind. Hope this explains. [[User:Angel670|<font color="#FF0090" face="Papyrus">'''Angel670'''</font>]] [[User talk:Angel670|<font color="#FF0090" face="Papyrus">'''talk'''</font>]] 21:57, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


My intentions were to bring to attention the [[WP:NAT]] based [[WP:POV Pushing]] and [[WP:Disruptive editing]] that has been conducted by these to editors on topics related to the Sri Lankan Civil War supported by a broader cohort of sympathetic supporters, who seem to come to their aid (even in this AE). It is my opinion that these two editors have been attempting to weaponizing WP as part of a broader campaign.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MarshallBagramyan&diff=prev&oldid=430721297]
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


* Both Oz346 and Petextrodon edit histories only show editing in Sri Lankan Civil War content and no contributions to broader topics on WP. Although Oz346 has begun contributions on a new topic line in recent weeks.
* Both Oz346 and Petextrodon had engaged in what appears to be [[WP:OR]] in the following pages using [[WP:Primary sources]] such as advocacy groups which was advised against in [[Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_425#International_Truth_and_Justice_Project|RSN]].
::* [[List of attacks on civilians attributed to Sri Lankan government forces]]
::* [[Sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka]]
::* [[Sri Lankan state-sponsored colonisation schemes]]
* Both Oz346 and Petextrodon, are not open for any compromise as evident in the talk pages of disputed articles refusing to acknolege [[WP:BURDEN]] and [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]], other editors in [[Talk:Tamil_genocide#Excessive_use_of_Primary_Sources]] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1210821067]. Validating my repeated calls for use of proper referencing.
* Both Oz346 and Petextrodon had engaged in bitter [[WP:BATTLE]] on content issues on pages such as
::* [[1977 anti-Tamil pogrom]] - Content they prevented me from adding saying "reverted disruptive edits ruining the flow of the article with unnecessary details against the advice of other editors; either discuss in the talk page or wait for requested third opinion" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=prev&oldid=1209137667], which was later cleared by a lengthy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_243#1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom DRN]
::* [[Sri Lanka Armed Forces]]
::* [[Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam]]
* I agree to third party opinions and rulings (although both these editors don't seem to) i.e.. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces#link_to_peace_keeper_scandal_full_article], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_430#Is_%22Gota's_War%22_by_C.A._Chandraprema_a_reliable_source_on_Sri_Lankan_ethnic_conflict?]
* Finally I have been subjected to multiple personal attacks ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1129#Multiple_conduct_issues_with_user_Cossde], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces&diff=prev&oldid=1157722413], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces/Archive_3#Disruptive_revert/edit_war_by_user_Cossde], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1210858334], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1151#User:Cossde_flouting_Wikipedia_policies]), insults ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=prev&oldid=1213349456], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sri_Lankan_Civil_War&diff=prev&oldid=1222868188], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cossde&diff=prev&oldid=1209791686], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom&diff=prev&oldid=1208945331], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Liberation_Tigers_of_Tamil_Eelam&diff=prev&oldid=1157690847]) and been threaten ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1214365045]) by both Oz346 and Petextrodon, over the last few months that I have not brought up in this AE, however I feel I should at this point to give proper context. [[User:Cossde|Cossde]] ([[User talk:Cossde|talk]]) 01:42, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning MarshallBagramyan===
===Discussion concerning Oz346===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by MarshallBagramyan====
====Statement by Oz346====
Oh dear. I for one would like to apologize to the administrators who will be looking at this seemingly frivolous report which Angel has filed against me. Nowhere in my statements do I say that Azerbaijani scholars cannot be used on account of their ethnic identity. Rather, and I'm glad that Angel has posted the full quotes more or less, my objections stem from the belief that scholars who operate in an environment, where they are practically dictated to say and write what their governments tell them, cannot be considered neutral or even reliable. This applies to the above-mentioned individual, who was a modern historian living in the former Soviet Union and later independent Azerbaijan. Most scholars are in agreement that the Soviet Union jealously guarded the study of modern history and did not allow its own historians to stray away from the Marxist-Leninist dogma, and I was merely echoing their statements (see, e.g., Robert Service, ''A history of modern Russia from Nicholas II to Vladimir Putin'', Cambridge, MA, 2003, p. 419). As for Azerbaijan, all one has to do is visit the Wikipedia page on [[Human rights in Azerbaijan]] and see who the latest blogger was who was arrested and sentenced to jail for criticizing the Azerbaijani government. Can one reasonably expect to see scholars dissenting from national narratives when even a blogger can be arrested and sentenced to long jail time on such flimsy pretexts?


I made no objections to the changes made by Petextrodon, because they replaced non-peer reviewed sources with several reliable scholarly sources, which any neutral observer can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamil_genocide&diff=1222771051&oldid=1222762052] Does user Cossde dispute this? Does he prefer the previous lede, which he himself has been questioning? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATamil_genocide&diff=1222515734&oldid=1222507444] I have justified my reverts and have not broken any edit war rules, and do not intend to go anywhere near [[WP:3RR]] in respect of the contentious topics designation.
Furthermore, Western scholars have cautioned historians and lay students alike to avoid making use of publications in Azerbaijan for some very good reasons. To quote the eminent Prof. [[Robert Hewsen]]:


Furthermore, it is evident that Cossde did not even bother to read the JDS article, in his edit which I reverted [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamil_genocide&diff=1222867695&oldid=1222866321]
{{quotation|Scholars should be on guard when using Soviet and post-Soviet Azeri editions of Azeri, Persian, and even Russian and Western European sources printed in Baku [the capital of Azerbaijan]. These have been '''edited to remove references to Armenians''' and have been distributed in large numbers in recent years. When utilizing such sources, the researchers should seek out pre-Soviet editions wherever possible. ''Armenia: A Historical Atlas''. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2001, p. 291}}
, where he incorrectly claims that the author Ramanan Veerasingham made genocide accusations. Ramanan was merely reporting on the findings of the [[Permanent Peoples' Tribunal]]: http://www.jdslanka.org/index.php/news-features/human-rights/426-sri-lanka-guilty-of-genocide-against-tamils-with-uk-us-complicity-ppt-rules


Regarding point 3 and 4. I reverted to the status quo which had existed for months, and was the result of a long discussion a few years ago (which resulted in the various different death toll estimates being included). One of the sources that the user is questioning, ITJP was regarded as a reliable source on the RSN [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_425#International_Truth_and_Justice_Project]. How can citing that with explicit attribution be regarded as POV pushing?
So I am essentially paraphrasing what the authorities themselves have told us to do. The individual in question has authored numerous works but the one that caught my eye was ''Armenian Falsifications'', which hardly has a neutral tone to it. I have noted and duly adhered to Sandstein's friendly advice and as my statements make clear, never have I objected to making use of a source on the basis of his ethnic identity but have taken much more important factors into account, such as the scholarly environment and atmosphere that I are working in. Oddly enough, Angel did not make such a distinction and she dismissed a source (quoted just below by Ashot Arzumanyan) on the same talk page because he was Armenian. She shows that I clearly and carefully qualified my statements and I can only surmise that this complaint was regrettably done out of ill-faith. --[[User:MarshallBagramyan|Marshal Bagramyan]] ([[User talk:MarshallBagramyan|talk]]) 20:19, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


In addition, Cossde's point 5, goes against the consensus established at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sri_Lanka_Reconciliation/Sources#List_of_sources]], which explicitly states that these sources can be cited in Wikipedia. Yet he refuses to respect the admin led verdicts made there. This is not in keeping with Wikipedia consensus building policies. And now he accuses me of disruptive editing for following the projects' own guidance!
:Angel, it really seems unlikely that you were trying to show the "irony" of my previous comments in that section since you were systematically reviewing the sources and their authors. Of that particular source, there appeared no hint of sarcasm or lightheartedness to suggest that you weren't being anything but serious to say that because a source was Armenian, then he automatically disqualified as a reliable source, no matter his credentials.


In addition, I believe that user Cossde has thus far escaped sanctioning because every time he gets reported, he submerges the discussions with reams and reams of text not directly related to the issues at hand. This prevents admins from properly assessing the actual individual issues (Which is understandable, as it would require a large time effort to sift through all the accusations and counter accusations, many of which are baseless [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Daniel_Case#Edit_warring_in_Sri_Lanka_Armed_Forces], and inappropriately cite wikipedia policies). My humble request is to focus on the issues at hand and not get sidetracked. Thank you. [[User:Oz346|Oz346]] ([[User talk:Oz346|talk]]) 12:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
:And Neftchi, as Sandstein and other administrators all noted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=411875196#MarshallBagramyan here], they fully understood the true meaning of my remarks and knew that I was not speaking about the national or ethnic identity of other authors. My words were poorly formulated, but everyone agreed that more careful phrasing would help prevent further confusion, which I have duly followed and adhered to ever since. Contrary to your assertions, nowhere in my comments quoted by Angel have I invoked someone's ethnic or national identity as an obstacle to their use as a source, but have always emphasized that their credentials and working environment (political above all) are far more important. Journalists and bloggers who are attacked for going against what is official state dogma, as the case of [[Eynulla Fatullayev]] illustrates, whose editorial office was attacked by a mob and who was later arrested because of the mere rumor that he had challenged the state narrative that a certain massacre had not taken place, can hardly be expected to be neutral when they are force to toe the government line. There's nothing controversial about that (as the administrators on the previous thread agreed). I would highly appreciate that next time you do not misrepresent my stance in such a deliberate manner.--[[User:MarshallBagramyan|Marshal Bagramyan]] ([[User talk:MarshallBagramyan|talk]]) 22:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
====Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards ====
See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Oz346 is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 22:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
::1. This is a very open-ended question whose answer is very multi-layered and I must apologize beforehand for this lenghty historical excursion. Do I trust any writings published in Azerbaijan? To a certain extent, yes but this is related to the time frame in question. The article on the [[Nagorno-Karabakh War]], which I created from scratch and brought it to the level of a Featured Article, includes numerous direct and indirect citations from the Azerbaijani parliamentarian Arif Yunusov, whom many believe has compiled the most comprehensive objective account of the Nagorno-Karabakh War. In writing that article, I made great use of her statistics on the number of deaths and casualties of Armenian and Azerbaijani troops, the number of refugees from both sides (a highly contentious topic in and of itself), of territorial acquisition during the war, etc. On the other articles related to the war, such as the [[Capture of Shushi]], I have had no qualms in attributing statements to their proper sources when they conflict (if an Azerbaijan commander, for example, said he had lost x amount of men, then his figure was sourced to him, even if it may have contradicted another source).
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Oz346===
::The only real exceptions I have made an issue of are the same books and articles which Prof. Hewsen above cautions his readers to avoid, namely those works dealing with the history of the region from the ancient to late medieval times. I don't want to dwell on this for too long because this is certainly not the right forum, but suffice it to say that this a political problem. According to the state narrative in Azerbaijan, the history of the Armenians begins in 1828 (AD), when the Russian Empire supposedly brought the Armenian people to where they are today, predating their actual documented existence by about three thousand years. Before that, the Armenians are not mentioned in Azerbaijani history books and their ancient medieval churches and monasteries and cemeteries are ascribed to a different people altogether: the [[Caucasian Albanians]]. Where the Armenians are mentioned in historical sources, such as [[Herodotus]] or [[Strabo]], in editions published in Azerbaijan all references to "Armenia" and "Armenians" are replaced with "Albania" and "Caucasian Albanians", respectively, or excised altogether. This narrative first saw its rise in the 1950s and '60s when the Soviet Union was engaged in Azerbaijan and elsewhere in something historians have termed "nation building".
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
::Since such activities soon enveloped the entire branch and study of history in Azerbaijan, most Western historians have tended to ignore them because they completely fail to conform to accepted scholarly standards. I say all this because I wish to make it clear that mine is not a personal preference based on any nationalist lines. I was merely repeating what Hewsen, Professor Viktor Shnirelman, and others have stated long before me. Shnirelman, a scholar who has actually studied and written about the role of Soviet nation-building at some length now, has several chapters in his book ''The Value of the Past: Myths, Identity, and Politics in Transcaucasia'' (Osaka, 2001) dealing with the subject entitled "The Median Temptation and Soviet Patriotism", "Revisionists: The Pan-Turkic Assault", "The Albanization of the Armenian Heritage", "The Albanian Myth", etc. Historians like Shnirelman have identified the prominent role that historiography has played in Azerbaijan as a phenomenon which took place ''after'' it was absorbed into the Soviet Russia in 1920, a process which was colored with Soviet ideology and one which continued in the following decades, saw its culmination in the late 1980s, and was subsequently adopted by the Azerbaijani government after it became independent in 1991.
*This and the report above are starting to look to me like weaponizing AE over content disputes. I've reviewed the diffs in this case, and nothing is standing out as disruptive editing. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 16:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

*I tend to agree with SFR, and I really don't like the practice of dragging people to AE when they disagree over content. With that having happened twice in this span, I'm strongly considering some sanction on {{u|Cossde}}, which would probably be a topic ban from this area, but I'll give some time for them to respond if they want to. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 23:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
::2. That also is a difficult question to answer. I can speak from personal experience on one hand and quote the authorities on the other. At best, a pattern can be discerned and, based on what I have read and studied over the years, the general character of the sources appear to give preference to advancing an agenda, rather than demonstrating a true desire to report and present information based on the practices and standards of Western scholars. At times, on some Azerbaijani news websites, there have even been calls for their readers to go on to the English-language Wikipedia to "correct" misinformation found regarding the history or politics of Nagorno-Karabakh. All of this does not, however, condemn all the sources to banishment; it does reiterate my belief that these sources should be approached and evaluated delicately. But all this just drives home the point that history, journalism, and other similar fields in Azerbaijan are too politicized and the state simply holds far too much sway over what people can say or do. To criticize or openly question an event which is generally accepted as fact in the country might land one in jail, and so their intellectual freedom is thus censored and too tightly controlled by what is essentially a one-party government. Other administrators who have more knowledge regarding this issue can given you their insights, of whom I'd recommend [[User:Golbez|Golbez]] and [[User:Buckshot06|Buckshot06]]. And while I cannot speak about pre-Soviet sources published in Azerbaijan, I have never seen anyone raise too great a fuss out of them.

::3. Once more, this question has a mixed answer. Because an information war exists between Armenia, the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR) and Azerbaijan until this day, much of what is published in Azerbaijan is intended to portray Armenia and the NKR as the aggressors for the ills of the war that concluded in 1994. Whether that is true or false is immaterial for the moment since we are concerned with the style of reporting and the type of reports published in the press and given in government publications. In the Azerbaijani media, there are occasional but nonetheless unconfirmed reports of constant violations of the cease fire regime by the Armenian side, poppy and drug cultivation, destruction of cultural monuments, burning of forests, illegal settlement, presence of [[PKK]] terrorist training camps, etc. in the NKR. Most mainstream news organizations have never picked up on such headlines, presumably because they carry such an obvious taint of propaganda for an audience which is geared toward the native population. So the answer would be in, in principle, yes, but I would add that regarding such controversial matters such as the above, it would be far more preferable to use third-party sources to support the general information which is being presented. But in the end it must be dealt with on a case to case issue. If there was another cease-fire violation, I see no reason, for example, why we cannot include Azerbaijani sources to give their account of what transpired, or how many soldiers were killed or injured - as in fact I and other have done on recent articles regarding precisely the same topics.

::4. Generally, as Wikipedia editors, we should not only follow the basic guidelines presented at [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources]], [[Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable sources|Verifiability]], [[WP:SPS]] and so on, but should also ask ourselves some basic questions when evaluating source. We may not all be historians, but it would not hurt always to examine and scrutinize a source which others might not necessarily agree with. This is done by asking ourselves a set of basic questions such as, even if they may appear to some as almost elementary: "Who is the author and what are his credentials? Is this his/her general area of expertise?" "Where was the source published?", "When and what sort of political climate was the source published?", "Who published the work?", "What sort of sources does the author use? Are there any sources at all?", "Has the author carried out any personal research or investigations and is this demonstrated in his work?", "Does this author have any incentive to advance a certain point of view?", "Who is the author's intended audience and what message, if any, is he/she trying to convey?", "Does the author himself/herself have certain stake in the manner to present his/her account which might be less than truthful". I have no doubt that some might come up with even better questions but I will stop here. And, of course, this method must be applied equally to all sources, regardless of who and where it was published. There are some sources published in Armenia which I tend to ignore because their level of propaganda and unprofessionalism is just as evident.

::I've used this line of questioning all the time but it seems that every now and then someone misinterprets my objections as being based on the author's or organization's ethnic or national identity, which is absolutely false. When that argument has actually been used regarding the sources I was making use of (as Angel ironically did on the article he quoted from), I clearly noted that one's personal, ethnic, national, identity in no way inhibited one's ability to report matters in an objective and truthful manner, whether they are Armenian, Azeri, Turkish, or Martian. I'm disheartened to see we have yet to pass this point. Thank you.--[[User:MarshallBagramyan|Marshal Bagramyan]] ([[User talk:MarshallBagramyan|talk]]) 02:16, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

:::Neftchi, I have asked you numerous times not to misrepresent deliberately my words and yet you continue, and I kindly ask the administrators now to take note. I have grown tired of emphasizing that my objections stemmed from the political environment which the individuals in question are working in. I never made an issue of Kocharli's ethnicity while you yourself just have and have just done with Prof. Hewsen's. What differentiates these two individuals is not their ethnic background, which you keep bringing up ''ad nauseum'' and actually do use to disqualify a source, but their academic backgrounds. Hewsen is able to write about controversial topics in a neutral tone but that has absolutely nothing to do with his ethnicity and everything to do with the educational establishment he was brought up in, where he is expected to adhere to common scholarly standards.--[[User:MarshallBagramyan|Marshal Bagramyan]] ([[User talk:MarshallBagramyan|talk]]) 18:17, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning MarshallBagramyan====
=====Comment by Ashot Arzumanyan=====
I would like to draw admins' attention to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMalibeyli_and_Gushchular_Massacre&action=historysubmit&diff=429924303&oldid=429780041 this edit], where the editor who filed this request particularly says "''Author Hovann Simonian does not count at all as he is an Armenian.''" Conclusions are up to you. --[[User:Ashot Arzumanyan|<span style="background:#913100;color:#EDEDED" vlink="color:#EDEDED">'''&nbsp;'''Ashot'''&nbsp;</span>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Ashot Arzumanyan|<span style="color:#913100">talk</span>]])</sup> 19:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

=====Comment by Neftchi=====

Marshall has made this kind of derogatory replies against Azerbaijani authors and scholars in the past. Thats why he was put in an indefinite parole in the first place. He is fully aware of the consequences of his repetitive actions and yet he does the same thing and then feels convenient to just come and post that is he is “misunderstood” to justify his actions against the indefinite restrictions. In his previous report he made the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=411875196#Discussion_concerning_MarshallBagramyan exact same statement] as he just did here. He was find guilty on similar edits as today, which are presented by Angel. Here below are edits by Marshal from his previous report, I bring this up for the admins to for comparison.
# [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Caucasian_Albania&diff=prev&oldid=409209545] "The same cannot be said about those scholars working in Azerbaijan, who are apparently too preoccupied with attacking Armenians and too absorbed with trumpeting their own purported achievements"
# [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Caucasian_Albania&diff=prev&oldid=409202649] "I just believe that Armenian authors have less reason to lie or distort reality, since much of what they say is backed by a multitude of sources. ... I object to using any and almost all Azerbaijani sources because they have an invariable vested interest to distort and misrepresent what the sources say. The fact that almost all their works reflect the position of official state propaganda and are published in Baku or elsewhere by themselves is enough to suggest that their works hold little to no academic value."
# [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Caucasian_Albania&diff=prev&oldid=409098090] "We all know that the works produced by scholars in Azerbaijan would not have a snowball's chance in hell in surviving a critical review, but to see them posted here in full, as if they're reliable sources, is a waste of time for all us serious editors who actually wish to improve this article."
This goes to show Marshall's behavior remains unconstructive. He deliberately attempts to diminish the reputation of well respected scholars on bases of their ethnic background. Which is offensive to say the least but is also against Wikipedia regulations. [[User:Neftchi|Neftchi]] ([[User talk:Neftchi|talk]]) 22:15, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


:First of all, for this long thread with personal opinion of MarshallBagramyan or those of the Armenian users or government, there is also a longer thread which will disprove any of those points. For example, for Shnirelman's anti-Azerbaijani stance, there are articles from the historian [[Zumrud Gulu-zade]] who disproves his every point (if needed I can find and send it to you). The authors Marshall mentions have largely lived in the West with access to a large Armenian diaspora and had open access to media, more than Azerbaijani authors whose works were left to Soviet reviews only. Therefore, it was always easy to condemn and dismiss works of Azerbaijani authors before they even saw light in Western media or academic circles in mid or late 1990's. Another thing is that while Marshall is dismissing Azerbaijani historian like [[Tofig Kocharli]] by citing comments of author [[Robert Hewsen]] he forgets to mention that Mr Hewsen is an Armenian himself. So why dismiss Kocharli based on his ethnicity when cover up the ethnic identity of the author who "warns" the readers about authors like Kocharli? Don't you think it's ironic?
:Again I would like to mention that this exchange can prolong by posting paragraphs of text over and over presenting views from both sides, but this is not the place. I think the intent of this report is to show that a user who has been a party to [[WP:AA2]] multiple times and had been placed under sanctions and restrictions many times AND has now been under '''indefinite restriction''' from 3 February 2011 and did now violate the ''"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarshallBagramyan&action=historysubmit&diff=411875831&oldid=411637674 may not make derogatory statements about sources or their authors on the sole basis of their nationality, place of birth or publication, ethnic group, religion or similar general characteristic that is unrelated to their reliability in terms of Wikipedia policy, in the context of the area of conflict of the arbitration case WP:AA2. This restriction is to be enforced by blocks or other discretionary sanctions]"'' should now face the consequences in a just way. If MarshallBagramyan had any argument on "reliability" of Azerbaijani authors or wanted to contest the restrictions imposed by the AE administrator, he should have expressed his point of view then. He did express his points of view BEFORE the restriction was imposed on him which everybody heard already and after the restriction imposed on him, he replied with [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MarshallBagramyan&diff=next&oldid=411875831]. So, it is only fair that MarshallBagramyan is placed under sanctions now as stipulated by the note ''This restriction is to be enforced by blocks or other discretionary sanctions'' by [[User:Sandstein}administrator Sandstein]] on his talk page. Do not get your attention diverted to discussions on reliability of Azeri and Armenian authors which have already taken place in the past. The issue at hand is the indefinite restriction and the sanction to be imposed for its violation. [[User:Neftchi|Neftchi]] ([[User talk:Neftchi|talk]]) 16:50, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

::I don't understand what MarshallBagramyan is exactly trying to say with his "detailed" information about Azerbaijan, or "freedom" in Azerbaijan? Maybe he should take a look at [[Media_freedom#Worldwide_press_freedom_index|this map of freedom]] where Armenia is as much freedom restricted as Azerbaijan. Oooh OK, just one step above. But do you even realize why some journalists like Eynulla Fathullayev might have been jailed for insulting victims of [[Khojaly Massacre]] and why it is not the same in Armenia? OK, I'll answer it for you. Because in Azerbaijan there is freedom of speech, even if limited which shows the multitierness of perceptions and views while in Armenia nobody ever writes '''anything good''' about Azerbaijan. Hence no need to go after anyone. Everybody follows what the governing regime says. Also everybody knows, you cannot even question the “Armenian genocide”, you will get jailed for it. Now, about the freedom of people. Do I need to remind you that it is in Armenia that [[2008 Armenian presidential election protests|ordinary civilians are being shot dead on the streets]] by the Armenian forces, not in Azerbaijan. So, you tell me how it is that Azerbaijan has no freedom and Armenia does!
::I also want to bring forward the fact the bad faith report by Marshall to AgadaUrbanit where he reported me with false information. Agada said Marshall's comment was: "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AgadaUrbanit Use of the site for political struggle accompanied by harassment of opponents is extremely disruptive and absolutely unacceptable]."
::To remind everyone again, this case is not about reliability of any authors. It is about violation of a sanctioned indefinite restriction imposed by a Wikipedia admin. [[User:Neftchi|Neftchi]] ([[User talk:Neftchi|talk]]) 19:21, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

=====Comment by Vidovler=====
There are no comparaison here. It's clear MarshallBaguarmian is refering to the author Kocharli, and the author is indead the last on Earth to be considered credible. His book titled ''Armenian Deception'' by its title is self explainatory. On page 2, we read: ''The book is presented with additions and changes in English. The first edition was published by the Instityte of Socio-Political Stadies and Information, '''National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan''' in 2001 in Azerbaijani.'' The National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan is the mouthpiece of the government, which has published several books in which primary sources were washed out from the word Armenia. Kocharli is not an acceptable source and the justifications provided by Mr. Baguarmian go beyond the mere ethnic backround of the authors. [[User:Vidovler|Vidovler]] ([[User talk:Vidovler|talk]]) 22:52, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
:Neftchi comment does not make any sense, the criticism of Shnirelman is supported by several scholars, and Shnirelman has shown his integrity, since in the work in which he criticise Azeri scholars there is also a section criticizing Armenian scholars. He's been impartial in his work, he just adds that it is worst in Azerbaijan and no one in his right mind would deny that. Zumrud Gulu-zade is not a historian, he is a philosopher of the Academy of Science of Azerbaijan. But the most ridiculous presentation in the arguments presented by Neftchi is his criticism of Hewsen and his attempt to compare him with scholars from Azerbaijan. Hewsen is not Armenian, I don't know of any credible source which claims that. Even if he was, that won't change anything since he has published in peer reviewed works, journals and books in the West, which are known for credibility. It would not have mattered if ethnically Azeri scholars had published in those journals, it would have been considered credible because those journals are known to use high standard in their reviewing process. Mr. MBagramian comments are valid and acceptable within this context. [[User:Vidovler|Vidovler]] ([[User talk:Vidovler|talk]]) 18:06, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

=====Comment by BorisG=====
My uninvolved view is that MB has NOT criticised sources based on ethnicity, but rather sources published by authors under severe government censorship. His approach here is proper and correct. This request should be dismissed. - [[User:BorisG|BorisG]] ([[User talk:BorisG|talk]]) 18:04, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
=====Comment by Khodabandeh and possible solution to AA issues=====
First a quick comment Wikipedia is not a battleground. I have not looked at the report, but if the comments are correct, and if MB removed a book by the name "Armenian Deception", then he is following policy just like if someone removed the book by the title "Azerbaijani deception" would also be correct. The title itself suggests the book is not wikipedia material. "Muslim deception" "Turkish deception", "Iranian deception", "Armenian deception", "Azeri deception", "Martian deception", etc... whoever is pushing to put such titles in Wikipedia should be sanction automatically (in my opinion). Even if an Armenian author writes "Armenian deception" that is not acceptable book for wikipedia. Any author that writes such a title is not reliable for Wikipedia, period.

More importantly, Recently I have been looking at the Russian wikipedia more (with google translator) due to some AA enforcements there. I noticed that the admins there '''are much more active''' and have a 3-4 person working group (who relatively know history in some detail) and who resolve some of these issues. The final decision they make usually becomes the standard there for Wikipedia. Those admins do not discriminate by ethnicity but by scholarship. They know the history of the region well. So for example R. Hewsen, or Touraj Atabaki (an Azerbaijani Iranian) are all acceptable sources, because these are academicians from Western universities recognized by the general scholarly community and well reviewed, and contribute to scholarly texts (Encyclopaedia of Islam, Iranica, etc.). At the same time, the Tofiq Kocharli's book by the title "Armenian Deception" is totally unacceptable for Wikipedia, not because of his background but because of its content. My suggestion is that it seems once in a while (or quite often) some sort of regional AA (many) or Azerbaijan-Iran (few) or Iran-Turkey (very few) or Armenia-Turkey (some more) or Greek-Turkey (sometimes) or Balkan issues comeup. There needs to be 3-4 very active admins familar with the areas history, '''and not from the area''' who resolve these issues. Else these problems linger on forever. I suggest at least two users Folantin and Kansas_Bear who seem to know history and are not from the area. Either way, the Russian Wikipedia has become much more calm due to such a mechanism. Actually at least four pages of AA issues (that comeup often in English wikipedia) have already been resolved there by admins [http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9A_%D0%BE%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B5_%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2/%D0%90%D0%90-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82]. Until there is such mechanism, Wikipedia will suffer. Perhaps for now, admins here can ask help from Russian admins on these issues. I have been in Wikipedia now for 5-6 years and this issue will not go away until there is an effective mechanism such as the Russian Wikipedia. The basic problem boils down to nationalistic type education systems in some countries which is ingrained from an early age. Wikipedia cannot stop million of users who have been educated in nationalistic doctrines by AA reports (some fraudalent), and it needs active mechanism like the Russian wikipedia to solve this issue. Thanks. --[[User:Khodabandeh14|Khodabandeh14]] ([[User talk:Khodabandeh14|talk]]) 19:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

===Result concerning MarshallBagramyan===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
@MB:
#Do you trust any writings by Azerbaijani scholars?
#Are all such writings suspect, unless they come from the pre-Soviet period?
#Would you trust any new writings from Azerbaijan?
#If you consider any of these works reliable, what process would you use to reach your conclusion? Thank you, [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 00:37, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 01:43, 9 May 2024

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    Christsos[edit]

    Christsos is formally warned to adhere to the 30/500 restrictions in the ARBPIA area, and that further violations will result in sanction. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:41, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Christsos[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Pppery (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Christsos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:ARBPIA4 extended-confirmed restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Created Faiq Al-Mabhouh
    2. Created Ibrahim Biari (deleted by me as G4)
    3. Created Draft:Eyal Shuminov

    All of these are very obviously related to the conflict

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 19:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC) (see the system log linked to above).[reply]
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    User talk:Christsos#Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion


    Discussion concerning Christsos[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Christsos[edit]

    Statement by BilledMammal[edit]

    I see the editor has been inactive as of a few days prior to this report, so I wanted to ask - did anyone try to explain the ECR's to them beyond placing the ARBPIA notification on their talk page? 22:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning Christsos[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Christsos, if you have anything to say, now would be the time. It looks like all of these happened after you were explicitly left a contentious topics notice informing you of the 30/500 restrictions, so can you please explain why you are clearly violating that? I'll give you a short while to explain, but otherwise I'm very much leaning toward a sanction. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:06, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm on the same page. They haven't edited in a couple days so there's no immediate need to step in. We can wait to see if there's a decent response. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Seraphimblade. they're still not around. How do you feel about a logged warning that the next violation will result in a one week block, followed by escalating blocks for further violations? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      ScottishFinnishRadish, I'm not a fan of that, as we'd essentially be tying the hands of future admins as to what to do if the violations continue (if it's a highly technical and probably inadvertent violation, maybe they only want to block for a day, and if it's egregious and obviously intentional, maybe they go right to a month, or even indef if the editor states they intend to keep violating it). I don't think we should predetermine the outcome of future actions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'll buy that, yeah. So a non-specific logged warning? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm good with that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Entropyandvodka[edit]

    Entropyandvodka is given a logged warning to adhere to 1RR, as clarified here, and that further edit warring or 1RR violations will result in sanctions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    BilledMammal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Entropyandvodka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    WP:1RR violations and 1RR gaming at Israeli war crimes:

    1. 02:22, 21 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → found that Israel had committed genocide)
    2. 07:05, 21 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → finding reasonable grounds that Israel had committed genocide)
      Was requested to self revert at 07:51, 21 April 2024. Did so at 22:58, 21 April 2024, saying Self reverting per request, as that edit can be considered a revert. Will be putting that material back in later tonight for the same reasons.
    3. 06:18, 22 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → found Israel was committing genocide)

    I don't know whether 06:18 is a second 1RR violation, but it is gaming of 1RR and seeing 1RR as an allowance, rather than a hard limit - reimplementing a reverted violation 23 hours after initially implementing it and seven hours after reverting it is not aligned with our expectations regarding self-reverting violations.

    I requested they re-self-revert; they have refused to do so, and are now arguing that 07:05, 21 April 2024 was not a revert.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 5:10, 13 October 2023 (see the system log linked to above).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    There's a few other recent 1RR violations (for example, 02:21, 9 April 2024 and 16:46, 8 April 2024), but no recent gaming as far as I can tell.

    The issue with this one, though, is how blatant it is; they didn't wait 24 hours to revert back to their preferred version after self-reverting, they waited just seven - if we don't consider the time the between making the violating revert (07:05) and self-reverting the violation (22:58) it means they reverted back to their preferred version just twelve hours after initially reverting to their preferred version.

    If this is permissible, then that means editors who wait 24 hours from their first revert to self revert would be permitted to revert back immediately after self reverting, making the restriction considerably less effective at preventing edit warring and disruption. 22:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    19:31, 28 April 2024

    Discussion concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This is misleading. While edit 1 was a revert, edits 2 and 3 were not reverts, per the guidelines in WP:Reverting. The paragraph in all versions contains the proposition that Francesca Albanese said (or stated) that Israel had committed or was committing genocide, providing her exact quote. Edits 2 and 3 didn't change this. They added additional propositions (she submitted a report, the findings/conclusion of the report). The term 'found' here refers to the findings/conclusions contained in her submitted report, which was passingly referenced in the initial version before BilledMammal's later-reverted edit. BilledMammal's edit essentially just made the same explicit proposition twice in two consecutive sentences. Edits 2 and 3 fall into the classification of examples provided in WP:Reverting as 'A normal change, not a reversion' as they add additional propositions without removing any. Boiling down the propositions in the differences, we have:

    Edit before BilledMammal edit: She found X. She said X

    BilledMammal edit (before the reversion) She said X. She said X.

    Edits 2 and 3 (not reversions) She submitted report X, which found/concluded X. She said X.

    I'd point out briefly here that the initial version, before and after BilledMammal's reverted edit, did warrant revision, as it referred to the findings/conclusion of a report without explicitly mentioning the report. I now think BilledMammal was right to make that initial edit, and I was wrong to simply revert it, as that original form of the sentence with no additional information would go against MOS:SAID. Edit 1, the revert I did make of BilledMammal's edit, failed to address this issue, but the subsequent edits 2 and 3 addressed this, without information/proposition loss. Edit 3 was a slightly clearer version of edit 2.

    After edit 2, in which I first added the additional material, BilledMammal accused me of violating 1RR. I self-reverted when requested to, in the spirit of collaboration, though didn't agree that adding that material constituted a revert, and ultimately added it later in edit 3. All the material is RS-backed, and provides informative and relevant context. If I'm correct that edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reversions, then there's no 1RR violation. If I believed edit 2 or edit 3 constituted a revert, I wouldn't have made either edit.

    On my talk page, I attempted multiple times to engage with BilledMammal about the substance of the issue, sought feedback, asking how BilledMammal wanted to write it to add the additional material. BilledMammal repeatedly refused to engage much about the topic, showed no interest in seeking consensus, instead accusing me of a 1RR violation and demanding I self-revert to BilledMammal's version. BilledMammal then threatened arbitration if I didn't comply. I made a good faith attempt to show to BilledMammal why I believe edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reverts, and offered two more suggestions to reach an inclusive consensus. BilledMammal did not respond to these suggestions.

    ScottishFinnishRadish,Seraphimblade Understood, regarding what constitutes reverting. I'll be mindful of that in the future. Regarding the user talk page thing, it was BilledMammal that came to my talk page, where I responded and attempted to reach a consensus. In the future, I'll redirect such talks to the article talk page. I should have started a talk there anyway before edits 2 and 3.

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • The self-revert remedied the 1RR violation, and their revert back to their preferred version after 24 hours wasn't great, but was not a 1RR violation. Is there a pattern of 1RR gaming, or just this single example? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Entropyandvodka, those were reverts. Just because you're not using undo, rollback, or a tool like twinkle doesn't mean that modifying the same piece with a slight rewording isn't reverting. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • If this is just a single instance, I would be okay with a logged warning, including a reminder that 1RR is not an entitlement to do another revert at 24 hours and 1 minute from the first. Entropyandvodka, if someone objects to an edit you made, go to the article talk page (not a user talk page), find out why they objected, discuss it with anyone else who participates, and see, by suggesting stuff on talk, if you can address those concerns. If you come to an impasse, dispute resolution is available at that point. But yes, tweaking your edit a little bit and making it again still is reverting, if the edit is still substantially similar to the last one. We have to treat it that way; otherwise there would be no end of gaming with that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm fine with a logged warning as well, now that 1RR and what a revert is has been clarified. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Petextrodon[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Cossde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Petextrodon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 26 April 2024 use of a primary source that has been established as a pro-rebel.
    2. 26 April 2024 use of a primary source
    3. 28 April 2024 use of single source the has WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS under WP:EXCEPTIONAL circumstances.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND and possible WP:NAT editing, with controversial content been added with single sources that are most cases primary sources that have clear conflict of intrests and even been labled "pro-rebal". Some other sources with WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS, that makes the content appear WP:OR. Request for more citations per WP:EXCEPTIONAL and WP:CHALLENGE have been refused. Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.

    Following attempts for dispute resolution have been tried:

    In response to the comments made here, my stand is that if the admins here feel that a topic band for 30 days or one year to myself or to Petextrodon or both, so be it. However, I request that my band would be limited to Sri Lankan Civil War related topics since my edits on broader Sri Lankan topics have not been hot topics and I have been contributing for over an decade.

    In the matter at hand I would request admin intervention to review the content dispute. I have raised this issue in RSN ([1]) and there has been no result. Clearly the article in question does not meet WP standards of WP:NPOV and I request an independent review, mainly regarding the poor sourcing and use of primary sources. In another RSN ([2]) it was mentioned that "As with other advocacy groups… caution is needed. Statements by advocacy groups are WP:PRIMARY sources… certainly reliable for verifying that they take a given stance on an issue, but not necessarily de-facto reliable for the accuracy of the background material used to take that stance." It is vital that this takes place now due to the WP:BATTLE ([3], [4], [5], [6], [7]) that’s is taking place regarding topics associated with the Sri Lankan Civil War, with a clear group of editors including Pharaoh of the Wizards editing on one side of this battle ([8], [9]). I am not surpised to see his support of Petextrodon, an editor who has no content contribution beyound Sri Lankan Civil War topics. Cossde (talk) 14:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • (@ScottishFinnishRadish) RFCs on related topics have seen vote stacking. Cossde (talk) 14:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC) Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Petextrodon&diff=prev&oldid=1221697850

    @ Bookku . WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:VOTESTACKING on SL Civil War topics were conducted by Petextrodon, Oz346 and Okiloma in general. These have been evendent in pages: List of attacks on civilians attributed to Sri Lankan government forces, Sexual violence against Tamils in Sri Lanka where request for use of secendary sources to meet WP:EXCEPTIONAL has been meat by WP:BATTLE. WP:VOTESTACKING has taken place in RFCs in Talk:Sri Lanka Armed Forces, Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers#Merge_proposal:UN_child_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Haiti, Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom#RFC:_Report_on_1977_anti-Tamil_riots. Cossde (talk) 12:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Oh and recently WP:VOTESTACKING in Talk:Tamil_genocide#Potential_redundancy?. Cossde (talk) 14:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And a call for vote stacking [10]. Cossde (talk) 04:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is too much of a coincidence that the same set of users appear in numbers on votes on articles related to the Sri Lankan Civil War. With some new users taking it for granted that there is a camp already formed to it as "us". Cossde (talk) 01:25, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Discussion concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Petextrodon[edit]

    I don't think the issue is truly about the number of citations which is why user Cossde deleted even the content backed by two RS citations, Human Rights Watch and Routledge scholarly publication. More crucially, Cossde may be guilty of vandalism for repeatedly deleting sourced content [1][2], since no Wikipedia rule states that a content without more than one RS should be removed. Also, the user is well-aware that Wikipedia:WikiProject Sri Lanka Reconciliation/Sources classified the UTHR as RS long ago and recently classified NESOHR as a "Qualified source" that can be cited with attribution. As for Frontline (magazine), that's a mainstream news magazine that any reasonable editor can see meets the criteria of RS. As for Uthayan newspaper, I had repeatedly explained to this user in the talk page that it was a registered and award-winning Sri Lankan newspaper yet they weren't satisfied by this explanation and refused to explain why they questioned its reliability.

    Cossde has a long history of deleting reliably sourced content [1][2][3] that are critical of the Sri Lankan government and its armed forces. To me this looks like WP:nationalist editing, especially given the blatant double standards this user has shown regarding the use of sources on multiple occasions:

    They did not address their blatant double standards despite my repeated requests to do so in the talk page. It would appear from this to any reasonable observer that Cossde is more bothered by the nature of the content than the reliability of the sources. I hope the admins review the reporter's own behavior so the vandalism issue can be sorted and I wouldn't have to open a separate enforcement request against this user. --- Petextrodon (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Robert McClenon, Just to clarify, why should I be punished for contributing to Wikipedia? What rules have I broken? I'm being hounded for my good faith contribution by this user for the past several weeks and not vice versa. But I agree with you on the interaction ban as I have no desire to engage in pointless disputes and edit war with this user. I'm very much capable of reaching amicable compromise with users I disagree with as I indeed have on several occasions with another Sri Lankan user, SinhalaLion. But unfortunately it has not been possible with this user. --- Petextrodon (talk) 21:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC) Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC) [reply]
    I'm requesting an extension of 105 additional words to respond to Cossde's statement. --- Petextrodon (talk) 18:48, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Cossde didn't specify but listed me alongside others in WP:Votestacking accusation which I believe is unwarranted. In the Talk:Sri Lanka Armed Forces RFCs, I didn't ask any user to participate. Most responses were from uninvolved RFC community. In the Talk:Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers, I did tag two users for their inputs as they are prolific contributors to Sri Lanka topic, but only after Cossde tagged two other uninvolved users for their inputs.
    As for Talk:1977_anti-Tamil_pogrom RFC, I didn't ask any user to participate. As for Talk:Tamil_genocide#Potential_redundancy?, no one asked me to participate nor did I ask anyone to participate. I volunteered my opinion on my own.---Petextrodon (talk) 18:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards[edit]

    See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Further there no CT alerts.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Petextrodon is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Bookku (Uninvolved)[edit]

    Collapsing since Cossde answered the query

    I don't have detail background but wondering whether really no scope for WP:DDE protocol? and any difficulties to go through WP:RfCs, or RfCs happened but did not mention in above difs? Bookku (talk) 16:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • @Cossde seem to have complained about WP:VOTESTACKING at RfCs. I suggest usually link the policy page so other user gets to know which policy you are talking about. Cossde's earlier sentence ".. This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND .." is general in nature, WP:VOTESTACKING at RfCs statement, too, seem general in nature. If complaint is about Petextrodon a) Need to be clear if Petextrodon too has any role in alleged BATTLEGROUND and VOTESTACKING with specific proof difs. On the other hand if statements are related but general concerns but not related to Petextrodon be clear about that too.

    Statement by Robert McClenon (another Sri Lanka dispute, another forum)[edit]

    I am asking the administrators at this noticeboard to do something, because there are too many disputes between User:Cossde and User:Petextrodon. I am ready to provide a list of these disputes again, which I already provided to ArbCom in support of identifying Sri Lanka as a contentious topic, and especially the Sri Lankan Civil War, but I know that the administrators here know how to look up the record as well as I do.

    User:Petextrodon alleges that User:Cossde's removal of sourced content is vandalism. It is not vandalism, and an editor who has been editing Wikipedia long enough to know what is vandalism should also know what is not vandalism, and POV pushing is not vandalism, although it is often reported as vandalism. However, Petextrodon's complaint should be treated as a counter-complaint of disruptive editing and POV pushing by User:Cossde.

    Something needs to be done to curb these disputes. The obvious, but probably wrong, answer is to impose an interaction ban, because these editors do not like each other. The problem is that that will provide a first-mover advantage, and so may actually encourage pre-emptive biased editing. So I recommend that the first step be to topic-ban both of these editors from Sri Lanka for thirty days to give one or another of the administrators time to review the record in detail and determine which editor is more at fault, and extend the topic-ban to one year, or determine that both editors are at fault, and topic-ban them both for one year. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:00, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile. That isn't what arbitration enforcement is for. Have you opened an RFC on the sourcing disagreement? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Clerk notes (Petextrodon)[edit]

    • Petextrodon, you are at your word limit. Please do not respond further unless you've trimmed some words or been granted an extension. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Petextrodon, you can have an additional 105 words. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:51, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • This looks to me like a content dispute. I do not see any action for AE to take here, as we can't resolve those. That said, I see that this same editor has now filed another AE request below on what also appears to be a content dispute, so I think we should evaluate there whether that conduct is reaching the point of disruption. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    76.53.254.138[edit]

    76.53.254.138 blocked 2 weeks by ScottishFinnishRadish. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:33, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning 76.53.254.138[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    The Kip (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    76.53.254.138 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    ARBPIA extended-confirmed sanction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    User initially began editing as an IP in the ARBPIA area some time ago, sometimes disruptively:

    1. 22:21 January 24
    2. 21:15 April 15
    3. 21:23 April 30
    4. 19:51 May 1

    After being issued the CTOP warning on May 1 (linked below), and despite being specifically warned of the ECR restriction, they've resumed editing within the ARBPIA topic area, primarily in the current events portal:

    1. 20:35 May 6
    2. 20:41 May 6
    3. 21:00 May 6
    4. 21:02 May 6
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The IP in question has exhibited other generally disruptive behaviors over the past several months, both within and outside the ARBPIA area:

    1. Added nonsense to Atomic mass (later warned about vandalism)
    2. Made a bunch of disruptive edits on List of 2022 FIFA World Cup controversies, under the summary of "neutral" or "fine as it was," leading to the page being protected on March 5.
    3. Made another nonsense edit on Don Budge (later warned about vandalism)
    4. Has been engaged in a slow-motion edit war with multiple users at Assassination of Qasem Soleimani.
    5. Euphemized much of the content at Norske jenter omskjæres, where they also engaged in an extremely-slow edit war.
    6. Another slow edit war at Battle of Rafah.

    Many of their other edits exhibit a strong POV that they've attempted to push through via some of the aforementioned slow-motion edit wars.

    Overall, they've seemingly disregarded the CTOP warning issued to continue editing in an area they're not allowed to, and have a history of disruptive editing otherwise. They've avoided a block up to this point.

    I apologize if this should've gone to WP:ANI due to it being an IP, but I figured AE was the correct location given the bulk of the edits being in an arb-restricted area. The Kip 02:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Seraphimblade Sounds good. Please do let me know if IP issues are better-served by ANI - I wasn’t quite sure in making this report, to be honest. The Kip 21:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning 76.53.254.138[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by 76.53.254.138[edit]

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning 76.53.254.138[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Blocked two weeks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think the block is really all we can do; it's pretty pointless to apply CT sanctions other than blocks to IPs. Unless anyone shortly objects I'll close this as resolved. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The Kip, you didn't do anything wrong here, and if IP editors are behaving disruptively in CT-covered areas, you can certainly report it here. There are other general tools in our toolbox, like revert restrictions and long-term semiprotection or EC, that we can use if there's severe and ongoing disruption from anonymous editors. There's just not much point placing CT restrictions besides blocks on individual IPs, since IPs are subject to change at any time. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Oz346[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Oz346[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Cossde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Oz346 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 8 May 2024 Disruptive editing by reverting changes by another editor
    2. 8 May 2024 Disruptive editing by reverting changes by another editor
    3. 6 May 2024 Disruptive editing by POV Pushing
    4. 6 May 2024 Disruptive editing by POV Pushing
    5. 29 April 2024 Reverting citing reverts disruptive editing and vandalism
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The use has began a enagenging in WP:Disruptive editing and WP:BATTLE in the article Tamil genocide. There is an active dissucssion going on in the talk page, however Oz346 has engaged in reverting edits made by myself and another in the lead over a period of hours today without engagaging in the talk page. However he has made no objection to the changes made by Petextrodon, who has completly changed the lead without disscusing in the talk page nore as Oz346 has personaly made changes without disscussing it in the talk page himself. Cossde (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @ScottishFinnishRadish & @Seraphimblade, it was not my intention to weaponizing AE, however if you feel my actions are such, feel free to sanction me as you see fit, as I am ready to accept responsibility for my actions.

    My intentions were to bring to attention the WP:NAT based WP:POV Pushing and WP:Disruptive editing that has been conducted by these to editors on topics related to the Sri Lankan Civil War supported by a broader cohort of sympathetic supporters, who seem to come to their aid (even in this AE). It is my opinion that these two editors have been attempting to weaponizing WP as part of a broader campaign.

    • Both Oz346 and Petextrodon edit histories only show editing in Sri Lankan Civil War content and no contributions to broader topics on WP. Although Oz346 has begun contributions on a new topic line in recent weeks.
    • Both Oz346 and Petextrodon had engaged in what appears to be WP:OR in the following pages using WP:Primary sources such as advocacy groups which was advised against in RSN.
    • I agree to third party opinions and rulings (although both these editors don't seem to) i.e.. [13], [14]
    • Finally I have been subjected to multiple personal attacks ([15], [16], [17], [18], [19]), insults ([20], [21], [22], [23], [24]) and been threaten ([25]) by both Oz346 and Petextrodon, over the last few months that I have not brought up in this AE, however I feel I should at this point to give proper context. Cossde (talk) 01:42, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Discussion concerning Oz346[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Oz346[edit]

    I made no objections to the changes made by Petextrodon, because they replaced non-peer reviewed sources with several reliable scholarly sources, which any neutral observer can see [26] Does user Cossde dispute this? Does he prefer the previous lede, which he himself has been questioning? [27] I have justified my reverts and have not broken any edit war rules, and do not intend to go anywhere near WP:3RR in respect of the contentious topics designation.

    Furthermore, it is evident that Cossde did not even bother to read the JDS article, in his edit which I reverted [28] , where he incorrectly claims that the author Ramanan Veerasingham made genocide accusations. Ramanan was merely reporting on the findings of the Permanent Peoples' Tribunal: http://www.jdslanka.org/index.php/news-features/human-rights/426-sri-lanka-guilty-of-genocide-against-tamils-with-uk-us-complicity-ppt-rules

    Regarding point 3 and 4. I reverted to the status quo which had existed for months, and was the result of a long discussion a few years ago (which resulted in the various different death toll estimates being included). One of the sources that the user is questioning, ITJP was regarded as a reliable source on the RSN [29]. How can citing that with explicit attribution be regarded as POV pushing?

    In addition, Cossde's point 5, goes against the consensus established at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sri_Lanka_Reconciliation/Sources#List_of_sources, which explicitly states that these sources can be cited in Wikipedia. Yet he refuses to respect the admin led verdicts made there. This is not in keeping with Wikipedia consensus building policies. And now he accuses me of disruptive editing for following the projects' own guidance!

    In addition, I believe that user Cossde has thus far escaped sanctioning because every time he gets reported, he submerges the discussions with reams and reams of text not directly related to the issues at hand. This prevents admins from properly assessing the actual individual issues (Which is understandable, as it would require a large time effort to sift through all the accusations and counter accusations, many of which are baseless [30], and inappropriately cite wikipedia policies). My humble request is to focus on the issues at hand and not get sidetracked. Thank you. Oz346 (talk) 12:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards[edit]

    See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Oz346 is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Oz346[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • This and the report above are starting to look to me like weaponizing AE over content disputes. I've reviewed the diffs in this case, and nothing is standing out as disruptive editing. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I tend to agree with SFR, and I really don't like the practice of dragging people to AE when they disagree over content. With that having happened twice in this span, I'm strongly considering some sanction on Cossde, which would probably be a topic ban from this area, but I'll give some time for them to respond if they want to. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]