Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of athletes from Montana/archive1: Difference between revisions
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:::That's why the article should link to [[Montana]]. There are dozens of other articles relating to the state, and just because people might not know much about it doesn't mean that this should just copy the first paragraph of it. The lead should contain information about Montana's athletes not its geography, which is irrelevant here. Again, if someone doesn't know where Montana is they can follow the link to the main article; the map here is unnecessary. <font color="#1EC112">[[User:Reywas92|<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Reywas92</span>]]</font><sup><font color="#45E03A">[[User talk:Reywas92|'''Talk''']]</font></sup> 17:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC) |
:::That's why the article should link to [[Montana]]. There are dozens of other articles relating to the state, and just because people might not know much about it doesn't mean that this should just copy the first paragraph of it. The lead should contain information about Montana's athletes not its geography, which is irrelevant here. Again, if someone doesn't know where Montana is they can follow the link to the main article; the map here is unnecessary. <font color="#1EC112">[[User:Reywas92|<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Reywas92</span>]]</font><sup><font color="#45E03A">[[User talk:Reywas92|'''Talk''']]</font></sup> 17:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC) |
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::::It does link to Montana, the very first word. You're the only one to object to the first para, which I cut a bit from yesterday, and the only one to object to the map. TRM even liked the first para, asking for more refs even. I can't please him and please you on this. Since you're the only one to object to this so far, I'm leaving it in for now. And again, cutting it would raise the ire of those wanting more than one para. This is one reason I'm disenchanted with the featured process on wiki. Different want different things, so reviews are not standard and you get contradictory desires from reviewers. This is nuts.[[User:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">Pumpkin</font><font color="darkblue">Sky</font>]] [[User talk:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">talk</font>]] 17:41, 17 September 2011 (UTC) |
::::It does link to Montana, the very first word. You're the only one to object to the first para, which I cut a bit from yesterday, and the only one to object to the map. TRM even liked the first para, asking for more refs even. I can't please him and please you on this. Since you're the only one to object to this so far, I'm leaving it in for now. And again, cutting it would raise the ire of those wanting more than one para. This is one reason I'm disenchanted with the featured process on wiki. Different want different things, so reviews are not standard and you get contradictory desires from reviewers. This is nuts.[[User:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">Pumpkin</font><font color="darkblue">Sky</font>]] [[User talk:PumpkinSky|<font color="darkorange">talk</font>]] 17:41, 17 September 2011 (UTC) |
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:::::I don't see a problem introducing a little of the history etc of the state. I know zero about Montana so that kind of background is welcome to me. And we only have to wait until para two before we get to athletes. And given this is no doubt part of a series, I can see the intro being an important and consistent start to all other similar lists. All good in the hood. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:01, 17 September 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 18:01, 17 September 2011
List of athletes from Montana
List of athletes from Montana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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- Nominator(s): PumpkinSky talk 13:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
I am nominating this for featured list because I want the lists of Montanans to be as good as possible. Thanks for the reviews. PumpkinSky talk 13:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC) |
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Oppose – Love the idea of this list, but there's way too much uncited content at the present time. A lot of work needs to be done here before this will be ready for the star.
Note that I didn't check every single source, so it's possible that I didn't catch all of the issues. In fact, I likely didn't, which worries me. What else is uncited in the various columns?
Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:49, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
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Resolved comments from Albacore (talk) 19:58, 27 August 2011 (UTC) |
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;Comments from Albacore (talk)
Also, I emailed Montana Kids and told them to fix their site on Petkevich. PumpkinSky talk 00:04, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
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Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:37, 30 August 2011 (UTC) |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC) |
- Comments
- As a proponent of British English I find the use of "athletes" in the title to be misleading, though of course I understand the use of AmE for an obviously US-related article. There are other articles that use "sportspeople" instead, so List of sportspeople from Montana might be an alternative to discuss.
- I think it better to stay with AmE for an US article. Sportspeople is not something heard here much at all. In fact, I don't know anyone that uses. I can't even remember it being used. Athletes is the norm in the US.
- I think other lists of US athletes are similarly titled. I favor the AmE version, whatever it is. Sometimes "sports figures" is used, but I don't think it's WP's lingo. -- Montanabw
- Astute observation by Mike Cline: "the two most prominent british sportspeople I can think of Eric Liddell and Harold Abrahams are refered to as athletes" ??????
- I think other lists of US athletes are similarly titled. I favor the AmE version, whatever it is. Sometimes "sports figures" is used, but I don't think it's WP's lingo. -- Montanabw
- I think it better to stay with AmE for an US article. Sportspeople is not something heard here much at all. In fact, I don't know anyone that uses. I can't even remember it being used. Athletes is the norm in the US.
- I did a search on Wikpedia for the word "sportspeople" and the word "athletes" and there seems to be no consensus around the world for preferring either term. In the United States, there is also no consensus use in article titles, although "athletes" seems to be far preferred. My sense would be to go with "athletes," as that is not only the local terminology but is the preferred term in articles and lists about American people participating in sports (HAH!). - Tim1965 (talk) 00:22, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Robin Selvig appears to be a coach and not a player, thus the term "athlete" does not necessarily apply. violet/riga [talk] 21:50, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Self-correction: he is one of a few that once played but are possibly only notable for their coaching career. violet/riga [talk] 21:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but the bottom line is 1) wiki has no firm rule on this, 2) US English virtually never uses "sportspeople" and trying to force that would like Yanks trying to get "whilst" replaced with "while" used in an article about Britain, adn 3) TRM reviewed this, is a Brit, and didn't mention this as being an issue.
- I haven't said that it's an issue - I said that it's "an alternative to discuss". violet/riga [talk] 22:21, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks for clarifying.
- I haven't said that it's an issue - I said that it's "an alternative to discuss". violet/riga [talk] 22:21, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Self-correction: he is one of a few that once played but are possibly only notable for their coaching career. violet/riga [talk] 21:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Robin Selvig appears to be a coach and not a player, thus the term "athlete" does not necessarily apply. violet/riga [talk] 21:50, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- The first paragraph details aspects of Montana that I would not say are related, such as the nicknames and the economy breakdown.
- Hmm. Not directly related but fills in what Montana is. See next item too.
- This might be relevant, if somehow the point could be made that a small-population state with poor economy cannot sustain either major league teams, major league collegiate or high school sports, and provides little opportunity for in-state professional athletics. If such could be found. (I doubt anyone makes such an explicit argument, however.) - Tim1965 (talk) 00:22, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
- Are any Montana teams famous? Were there any important sporting events in Montana's history? Perhaps these could be included instead of the above.
- No. Montana is WAAAY too small in population to have ever had a major league sports franchise. As for events, not that I can think of. I'll ask around though. This is part of the reason I added the stuff in the item immediately above.PumpkinSky talk 20:39, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
- We export our finest, sad to say, although our college football teams have won several national championships in their various divisions (UM and MSU are usually placed in a division one step down from the biggest schools, Carroll College is something like 5 or 6 times champion in the NAIA group of smaller schools) But here, it's the PEOPLE we are listing. No real famous sports teams/events, our biggest community is just a bit over 100,000 people in the metro area and the whole state is still under population of 1 million. We've hosted the AERC national Endurance race and used to host the College National Finals Rodeo, but that's about it. Montanabw(talk) 21:37, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
- No. Montana is WAAAY too small in population to have ever had a major league sports franchise. As for events, not that I can think of. I'll ask around though. This is part of the reason I added the stuff in the item immediately above.PumpkinSky talk 20:39, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
- There have been isolated famous sporting events. Todd Foster made his professional boxing debut in Montana. The Jack Dempsey vs. Tommy Gibbons title boxing fight was held in the state in 1923. But such events would need to be tied to people from Montana, not mentioned in and of themselves (as was pointed out above). - Tim1965 (talk) 00:22, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
violet/riga [talk] 16:50, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the limetime section for each column. That can be found by clicking the person, and it doesn't seem to add anything to the article currently. If it's too much to remove it then that's fine, and others may disagree with my opinion. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Since no one has mentioned this and I've seen other lists with lifetime sections, I'm guessing most people don't have a problem with it. Though I can't say that for sure. What percentage of people lists has a lifetime (birth-death) section? PumpkinSky talk 10:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Fair enough. I haven't seen many of these more general type lists come through, so I don't have much to compare it to. I'll support since others are fine with it, even though it still strikes me as a bit odd. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:12, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- Comment The list itself is fantastic, but Montana's national parks, nicknames, and mountains are completely irrelevant. Link to Montana and get right into the athletes. Also, have an athlete-related photo a the top, not the location of the state. Also, don't use the table title function because you already have section titles. Reywas92Talk 22:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- Glad you like the list. As for "parks, mountains, nicknames" I can see trimming this down but I don't think it should totally removed because 1) most people would be "WTF is Montana?" and 2) Rambling Man thought it was important enough for me to add refs so I can't satisfy both his request and yours as they are inherently contradictory and it would make the lead rather short. The table title function is required by WP:ACCESS (Killervogel5 can explain this in detail). As Montana is a cowboy state I've put the rodeo clown photo at the top along with the map. You're the first to mention the map and I think it's important to keep it as even most Americans can't find Montana on a map.PumpkinSky talk 23:27, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- That's why the article should link to Montana. There are dozens of other articles relating to the state, and just because people might not know much about it doesn't mean that this should just copy the first paragraph of it. The lead should contain information about Montana's athletes not its geography, which is irrelevant here. Again, if someone doesn't know where Montana is they can follow the link to the main article; the map here is unnecessary. Reywas92Talk 17:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- It does link to Montana, the very first word. You're the only one to object to the first para, which I cut a bit from yesterday, and the only one to object to the map. TRM even liked the first para, asking for more refs even. I can't please him and please you on this. Since you're the only one to object to this so far, I'm leaving it in for now. And again, cutting it would raise the ire of those wanting more than one para. This is one reason I'm disenchanted with the featured process on wiki. Different want different things, so reviews are not standard and you get contradictory desires from reviewers. This is nuts.PumpkinSky talk 17:41, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see a problem introducing a little of the history etc of the state. I know zero about Montana so that kind of background is welcome to me. And we only have to wait until para two before we get to athletes. And given this is no doubt part of a series, I can see the intro being an important and consistent start to all other similar lists. All good in the hood. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:01, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- It does link to Montana, the very first word. You're the only one to object to the first para, which I cut a bit from yesterday, and the only one to object to the map. TRM even liked the first para, asking for more refs even. I can't please him and please you on this. Since you're the only one to object to this so far, I'm leaving it in for now. And again, cutting it would raise the ire of those wanting more than one para. This is one reason I'm disenchanted with the featured process on wiki. Different want different things, so reviews are not standard and you get contradictory desires from reviewers. This is nuts.PumpkinSky talk 17:41, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- That's why the article should link to Montana. There are dozens of other articles relating to the state, and just because people might not know much about it doesn't mean that this should just copy the first paragraph of it. The lead should contain information about Montana's athletes not its geography, which is irrelevant here. Again, if someone doesn't know where Montana is they can follow the link to the main article; the map here is unnecessary. Reywas92Talk 17:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Glad you like the list. As for "parks, mountains, nicknames" I can see trimming this down but I don't think it should totally removed because 1) most people would be "WTF is Montana?" and 2) Rambling Man thought it was important enough for me to add refs so I can't satisfy both his request and yours as they are inherently contradictory and it would make the lead rather short. The table title function is required by WP:ACCESS (Killervogel5 can explain this in detail). As Montana is a cowboy state I've put the rodeo clown photo at the top along with the map. You're the first to mention the map and I think it's important to keep it as even most Americans can't find Montana on a map.PumpkinSky talk 23:27, 16 September 2011 (UTC)