Commons:Administrators/Requests/Abigor (de-adminship)

Abigor

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•  Info Please note that this page has been protected against editing by not-registered and new users (semiprotected). We have already seen edits done by users editing through open proxies; as such, in order to avoid future misunderstandings and accusations I decided to protect it. For all not-logged in users: please log in to edit this page and state your opinions. Thank you for your patience, odder (talk) 20:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

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Vote

Abigor (talk · contributions · deleted user contributions · recent activity · logs · block log · global contribs · CentralAuth)

Scheduled to end: 21:30, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I request that the admin rights of User:Abigor be removed. He stated he would "wipe his ass with every policy he can find" (see here). At NL.wiki he has been blocked infinitely after various issues. One of the issues is that he repeatedly accused user:RonaldB of blocking him, forcing unblocks of IPs by stating that the IP block exempt at his account didn't work. He wasted a lot of time of the community that tried to find out why his IP block exempt didn't work. Finally we found out that the IP block exempt was perfectly working and that user Abigor falsified block messages to make us believe that he couldn't edit from his account. Abigor structurally uses all kinds of lies to waste time of the community. Also he structurally abuses Commons to trouble NL.wiki opponents, like here and here. At Meta he is attempting to get admin rights (again), but till now he only got oppose votes, see here. For discussion about his behaviour at Commons, see here. After what happened, also very recent, we cannot trust this user anymore with admin rights. Jcb (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

My responds: I rather find it strange that it came to a desysop, a desysop is the last thing a community has to stop a administrator that breaks the rules here on Commons. This didn't happen, Yes I was saying I would break every policy when its needed to protect family, but this are just words I didn't break any policy. Secondly most of the facts given here are from nl.wikipedia, but this is Commons and stuff from nl.wikipedia should stay there, on nl.wikipedia I was suspected to be a sock of Delay, there was no CU result backing this up but the community decided to block as DUCK, here on Commons there isn't a positive result also. Therefor I don't think SOCK has any relivance here. So we are facing a community that tried to get me gone since 2008, and this is just there next try. So look at the logs, see what policy are broken and find out there a none. So the vote is about do we accept strong language in a heavy discussion? Don't forget that not every user here is native English, so things can sounds worse than the meaning they had. But if we have to remove every admin that use hard language we lose maybe 50% of all admin's. So lets think clear, and vote. I ask you to vote keep since I have been working on Commons as administrator for 3 years (almost) and used to be a very active administrator before the drama started. When the vote is closed I will send sorry to some people, but at this moment I'm counting on the support of the communety to continu my work. And lets all not forget words are just words, saying something isn't the same as doing something Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 13:17, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Votes

Please express your opinion as either  Keep or  Remove. Support/oppose is ambiguous.

•  remove I am seriously disappointed in the user's behavior, with offensive comments made toward others, even other admins. We've got "Please go to hell and never come back", "you are only making a fool of yourself", "I will wipe my ass with every policy", and "Shut up or start a de-sysop". Unacceptable! There is also a disregard for policy when the user decides it doesn't apply to himself. Mistakes happen, maybe interpretations differ, but it's another thing entirely when you say that you'll do things your own way and then treat others rudely when questioned. As described in the comments below it seems there is some deception going on as well. Commons admins get enough animosity as it is without inviting it. – Adrignola talk 04:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove Flaunting disregard for policy when one is personally involved disqualifies him for adminship. Also, I had asked Huib/Abigor to retract his comments about MoiraMoira's mental health and about going to hell and never coming back, but he refused. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 07:45, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

•  remove - A.S. 07:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove rubin16 (talk) 08:18, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove Per above. Btw, Abigor lost the adminbit on Meta definitely now, see the removal in April, and the attempts to get it back, here, here and here. Trijnstel (talk) 10:26, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove - Not trustworthy, see also my comment below.--- Darwin ^Ahoy! 10:45, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

• Strong  Keep. This is a lynching. The lead quote, "I will wipe my ass with every policy" omits the crucial next words, "... I can find if its needed to protect my family." I, too, would do whatever was required to protect my family and I think that most of the rest of you would also.

It is true that the discussion which gave rise to this was heated, and that unfortunate words were used, but consider that our colleague felt, more or less correctly, that his family was under attack.

I propose that Jcb withdraw this for a week, giving us all a while to calm down. This discussion as it stands, is fatally contaminated by the out of context quote above. If it is reopened, it should contain only honest, complete quotes, not snips.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment May I add that Abigor was lying about protecting his family? He said he deleted the image to protect his girlfriend, though he uploaded the image himself (File:Eva Krap.jpg as Abigor and File:EvaKrap.jpg as Delay). So that quote is useless as it's not true. Trijnstel (talk) 14:52, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment my girlfriend was like jeej I'm on Wikipedia, like lots of other writes... The article seems te be deleted for Out of Scope, and she was like damn now my file is still there but no article... Everybody can use it now... So to protect her personal rights I deleted the file. So where is the Lie in there? Its completly according to policy to nuke out of scope files on sight, and a personal image without use is out of scope. So no lie, no policy breach. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 14:56, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

You never deleted the file (originally uploaded on nl-wiki, see here) because of out of scope, but for copyright violation (which it wasn't). And the older version was deleted by another admin ("Mass deletion of pages added by Abigor"?). Trijnstel (talk) 16:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

So I clicked the wrong message? That can happen, I'm also human... Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 16:09, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

•  Keep quite strongly I've thought quite a bit about this. I'm not keen on some of Huib's words here and I hope he will think carefully in the future. However we have faaar worse admins here on Commons who seem to get away with things and I really don't see this as warranting de-admin. If there was any re-occurrence of such behaviour it would worry me (someone else ought to have done it) but I might well feel the same as Huib in the same circumstances I think. --Herby ^{talk thyme} 15:38, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Like who? /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 16:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

•  remove - Colleague Effeietsanders gave him a final chance to come clean below and he did not take that. I am sad to say the trust is totally gone. MoiraMoira (talk) 15:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove - I know Abigor as a kind, fair and gentle person when there are no waves. Unfortunately, when there are waves something else happens. User Darwin's question/comment down here is exactly what happens and why this user cannot be trusted with extra buttons. He lies to safe face in unfortunate situations. We cannot trust him to not misuse his buttons in those situations. The removal of the picture was maybe just on the edge but in combination with the aftermath it has damaged my trust too much. Wkr, Fontes (talk) 16:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

   Comment - this user has not edited Commons in the past 9 months except for this page. I suspect someone has been canvassing. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:19, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  • Sorry to disappoint you but I'm just a big Abigor follower crosswiki. Plus I've been abroad for four months. Besides all that, is it not the argument instead of the messenger that should be considered? Wkr, Fontes (talk) 17:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  Strong keep - I trust Abigor, Huib, whatever he wants to call himself this week. As a Commons user, I truly don't give a shit what happens on other Wikis, and I don't believe that someone should be punished here for their crimes elsewhere, if such crimes were even committed. I agree his words have been heated recently, but given the sustained assault he has been under I don't think I can blame him. That COM:A thread seems to say that his crimes here (before any behaviour issues in the thread) are deleting an unused image of his girlfriend that he uploaded, and changing his name a few times. There are no grounds for a deadmin that I see. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:19, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove If nothing else, I'm deeply troubled by how this has been handled. Abigor's user page still claims him to be an adminstrator on meta, even though he knows that's a matter of concern among others and his most recent request for adminship ended in a snow fail. Furthermore, his unwillingness to take the same steps any non-admin would with personal problems--literally "I will wipe my ass with every policy"--is extremely problematic.--Prosfilaes (talk) 18:27, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  The quote is: I would wipe my ass with every policy I can find when its needed to protect my family You can't see the quote half, than it doesn't make sense at all... 18:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  If you can't fix the problem through channels, then what chance does a poor non-admin schlub have? In any case, the case at point was you deleting a file you uploaded with a false deletion reason, not a stalker making death threats or anything.--Prosfilaes (talk) 19:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

False deletion reason? If you going to desysop everybody that clicks wrong here we would have no administrators left? Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 19:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

•  Keep, does a huge amount of work on the site and is a very helpful sysop. Stifle (talk) 18:52, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove - Completely lost my trust on this user - TBloemink (talk) 18:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  Keep His tone is not acceptable at all, for such statement you would easily get at least one month block in my homewiki, yes his tone is/was not acceptable for me but I haven't seen him breaking any policy in commons, though some colleagues endorsed his trollish behavior in nlwiki, but let drama to be kept in nlwiki. I assume short block is more necessary here rather than desysoping Mardetanha ^talk 19:30, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
  • As long as he has admin rights, he would immediately unblock himself. Jcb (talk) 19:33, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
    • No, he could unblock himself, there's a subtle difference. I could go out and rape someone tonight, but I would not do it because I find the idea distasteful. Please do not assume to know people's minds. -mattbuck (Talk) 19:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
      • Give it try, if he does so, we can remove his bit much more easily, But please assume good faith Mardetanha ^talk 19:46, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  remove Lost trust. Multichill (talk) 19:40, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Comments

• Almost all the facts are based on meta or Nl.wiki? I thought we where talking about Commons here? And yes, I told you I would wipe my ass with every policy I can find when its needed to protect my family. When you only say the first part it sounds bad... The second part just make it sound human. Everybody will ignore policies when it comes to family.

Secondly this desysoped it based on Nl.Wiki or Meta, it only stated one speedy closure on Commons and yes I give a warning, removing tags or templates without any reason is enough to give a warnign, I don't know how I would wasted community time? Its just normal practice, you don't remove templates without any reason.

It just seems you are importing lost of crosswiki stuff, it makes me feel sad that you need to base a desysop on other wiki's issues, I believed you know beter that that. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 21:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

About your (recent!) behaviour at this very project, I will repeat something from above: "For discussion about his behaviour at Commons, see here." Users will find there sufficient material. Jcb (talk) 21:41, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Also the image you removed to "protect your family" has been uploaded as well from your Abigor account, one day before your sockpuppet uploaded it. Jcb (talk) 21:43, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Yep, uploaded and deleted, I don't think its against policy to upload files to Commons? Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 21:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Now just to get the facts straight:

1. Somebody created a article about my girlfriend
2. I uploaded a picture, to fit the article
3. The article is rated offtopic
4. I delete the image (Image was on Flickr also cc-by)
5. User SilverSpoon undeleted the file because there is OTRS permissions?
6. I bot blocked on nl.wiki because I uploaded a picture of my girlfriend and mod's on nl.wiki start to say "walks like a duck, its a duck" and blocks my account for sock :S
7. JCB and other Nl.Wiki Admins start a discussion to get my rights removed on Commons.

I fail to see any missuse of the tools here on Commons that would support a desysop. Its still based on cross-wiki stuff and not not commons stuff. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 21:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

But why did you delete the image? It had no license or naming problems or alike, so only the community decides whether to delete or not ... a×p_de^Hello! 22:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The policy was (atleast as far as I know that not inused images with a personal feeling can be deleted on sight as out of scope when the file is not in use. This is common practice and happen all the time. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 16:27, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

If your current version of the facts is true, you lied here when you wrote: "I got a e-mail saying hey your girlfriend is on commons sure as hell I reacted and deleted the picture, I nor Eva did give any permission for the use of this file.". Why all those lies? And if you are Delay, you were engaged in uploading at least one copyvio and faking its EXIF information. All this, along with the tool abuse for deleting the picture you uploaded yourself with an invalid reason, and your very rude behaviour in the AN, really don't fit the profile of an admin, even if we only evaluate your Commons affairs.--- Darwin ^Ahoy! 22:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Alright then, the facts on Commons: (possible) sockpuppetry (1, 2), harrassing other users and lying about deleting files (File:EvaKrap.jpg was improperly deleted, 1, 2, 3). And see of course the whole discussion here and the comments given on Meta. Trijnstel (talk) 21:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

•  Comment On 2011-06-17, Abigor wrote, "I'm getting sick about MoiraMoira, the behavior that she used against me for the last 2 years would almost say she needs a doctor..."[1] I judged that to be a personal attack on the mental stability of the named individual and removed it. An hour later, in the same discussion, Abigor wrote, "Please go to hell and never come back" to another editor.[2] Everyone makes mistakes and administrators are no different than others, in that respect. However, we expect administrators to recognize their errors, apologize when appropriate, and to learn from experience. I don't see that occurring here. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 22:53, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

  I'm sorry to say, but when the same people are busy trying to get you gone by canvassing votes (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_and_votes/SterkeBak), requesting global blocks (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Global/2011-01#Global_block_and_lock_for_user:Abigor), requesting checkuser's for every step I take (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verzoekpagina_voor_moderatoren/Sokpoppen/2011#Thunderflash_en_het_Abigor_netwerk http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verzoekpagina_voor_moderatoren/Sokpoppen/2011#Delay Both CU ar closed as negative, but administrators blocked still with the reason duck), ow and not help you get back to edit when the range you use is blocked by accident(http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overleg_gebruiker:RonaldB&oldid=23565657) so yes, I understand that my behavior is wrong I totally get it... But when they are busy for almost 4 years now with things just to get you gone its easy to lose yourself. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 03:31, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  You say that you "get it", but as of three days ago, you have not retracted your attacks.[3] To some extent, I can accept intemperate words written in the heat of the moment, but can you understand that it is troubling when those words are not retracted? --Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  Ow please don't get me wrong, I will take the words back and say sorry. But I will do it after the vote, if I start doing it now people will say I'm cleaning my mess up for the vote. Or when I remove the personal attacks I'm sure there will be people seeing it as covering up evidance. So when the vote is closed by a crat I will retract those words. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 16:53, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  I think that would be helpful regardless of the result of this discussion. Thank you. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 17:19, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

•  Comment I understand that there is a problem at NL wiki. What is the link with Commons? --  Docu  at 11:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Please read my comment above which I added yesterday or click here. Trijnstel (talk) 11:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
    • When you look at the facts almost everything is about nl.wiki, Trijnstel gives as reason with her vote the I failed a RFA on Meta. This is just on great cross-wiki problems import show to get me gone. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 12:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
      • I just added it (small!) as a comment, not as a reason to vote against you (that was "Per above"). And I already said enough for now. I think I made myself clear about my reason(s) to oppose. Btw, it's not true that the facts are mostly about nl-wiki, because the sockpuppetry was not only there, but also here (Delay nominated an image for COM:QIC and Thunderflash promoted it - both were on nl-wiki confirmed as sockpuppets of you and the relationship of Delay and Thunderflash is here also confirmed). Secondly, the harrasment was here ([4][5][6]) and thirdly, the uploading and deleting of File:EvaKrap.jpg was here too (I deleted it to protect my family is a lie, because you uploaded it yourself). I don't even count the issues on nl-wiki with the privacy violation and sockpuppetry. Trijnstel (talk) 12:53, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
      • I am blocked on nl.wiki as a "duck" there was no link found between Abigor and Delay, here there is no check done between Abigor and Delay so stop saying Socks and stop harrasing. Keep it by the facts please. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 13:04, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
•  Comment User Abigor was initially blocked for nine months on nl-wikipedia per Arbitration Committee decision for privacy violation and importing problems from another wikisite and would be admitted back providing he did not repeat the violation and problem importing. After this he was blocked for block evasion for indefinite time and an extensive edit research on commons and nl-wiki combined with repeated checkusers showed he had created a whole network of sockpuppets that acted wrongfully on both commons and nl-wiki. Abigor appealed to the Arbitration committee under the sockpuppet account name Delay. The committee investigated all research done in edits comparison and checkusers and ruled that "there was no ground at all for deblocking and Ït has been sufficiently proven that Abigor and Delay are the same person". . Note I have no personal interest / grudge / conflict with this user. On the contrary - I am one of the nl-wiki admins who has shown leeway and empathy with this user for a long time helping him out getting things back on track again. How ever this has not lead to improvement alas and his wrongful acts and outright denial of the facts are detrimental to the community and harm the integrity of the commons project. MoiraMoira (talk) 13:46, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

 Comment Hi, Abigor. I have a few questions for you. Do you admit that you are using (or used) multiple accounts, how many of them and for what purposes? Do you think that it would be appropriate to provide links between the alternative accounts and your main account? I didn't see your answer to this question. Thanks in advance. mickit 14:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello,

1. I started my Wiki Carrier with the account user:Sterkebak, its renamed to user:SterkeBak (Didn't renamed it everywhere so I have some Sterkebak accounts left) with this account the names Sterkebot and SterkeBot are used for my bot.
2. I moved on to the account Abigor, cuz of the mass projects where I had the name I didn't rename but just switched. AbiBot is the name of my bot now and AbiBot.nl.wiki. (running from the toolserver).
3. I registered the name Huib globally cuz I sign the messages with that name. There are no edits done with there.
4. I registered the name P.J.L Laurens to use with my uploads, it refers to a userpage designed for photography stuff. Its more like a portfolio than a userpage.

So none of them are used as socks, 2 times a old account with no edits since the other account started with editting. One account that was needed because people where confused about my sign and they ask for it. And one account for the attribution of photo's. There is no zoo of socks and there is nothing to abbandone. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 14:14, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Just to be totally clear: You say that 'Sterkebak', 'Sterkebot', 'SterkeBot', 'Abigor', 'Abibot', 'AbiBot.nl.wiki', 'Huib' and 'P.J.L Laurens' are your accounts, and include every single account you ever used on all projects? If there were more that you use, please name them all (on all projects) and lets get the confusion out of the way. Effeietsanders (talk) 14:22, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

The seems to be a user:Huib (old) I guess that it was to get a rename? But I didn't use other accounts, I editted as a IP from time to time, but no other accounts are used. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 15:00, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

 Question @Abigor, you didn't create Abigor (created 9 December 2008) to avoid the long blocklog and history of SterkeBak on nl-wiki (last edits 5/10 December 2008) (and to begin again with a fresh start), didn't you? Trijnstel (talk) 16:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Again importing stuff that totally has nothing to do with Commons, I'm not even going to answer this further. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 16:10, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Per Abigor: Indeed of little relevance. Trijnstel, with all due respect, could you stop importing the global issues surrounding Abigor? It only makes people miss the local issues that matter. Wkr, Fontes (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I think the exact reasons for the account creation are secondary. I don't think there is a lot of discussion about the Abigor/Sterkebak/Huib combination - there is however confusion about the relationship with other accounts. Abigor's position is now quite clear: he did not create or use other accounts than those mentioned by me above (with the possible exception of "Huib (old)"). Effeietsanders (talk) 16:14, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I quit now. This was the last thing I said about it and I'll go further with my "job": fighting vandalism. ;-) Trijnstel (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

just for the record, I just found a e-mail that I created a account for the WikiLinkBot I used to work with also. nl:user:WikiLinkBot it userpage contained information about the bot. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 16:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I thought it couldn't get worse, but it could, Abigor tried to modify this very desysop request, see here. Jcb (talk) 19:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Yep, Cuz you placed a half quote. If you are a real man you don't twist my words and place the complete quote. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 19:07, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Your edit of this desysop request shows again that you do not care about the rules when you have a personal involvement. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 19:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

@Abigor: It's completely irrelevant why you ignore the policies. Admin rights are meant to serve the community, not to protect your family or whatever excuse you may make up. Jcb (talk) 19:12, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

He deleted an out of scope image, unused, at the request of the person in the picture, and accidentally entered the wrong deletion reason. Why are you trying to destroy a good contributor over this? -mattbuck (Talk) 19:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Mattbuck, this is a net of lies. The initial reason was "I got a e-mail saying hey your girlfriend is on commons sure as hell I reacted and deleted the picture, I nor Eva did give any permission for the use of this file", which has been proven to be a complete lie, so Abigor changed his line for a number of other versions. I'm not even sure what version you are talking about here, since he stated afterwards that he deleted the picture by himself after the deletion of the article it was used in, for being out of scope. The version you are referring to apparently is of his girlfriend requesting the removal, which is yet another variation of that story.

My initial reaction to this was yours, James and Herb's as well. The case of Delay in particular stinked of false flag operation to frame him up, and I commented exactly that. After this whole net of lies started surfacing, however, I'm inclined to believe that this is something far more disturbing, involving compulsive lying and apparently some strange desire to submerge the communities he gets involved in with extensive disruption and debate about the intrigues he creates himself, always posing as the victim of those intrigues, even if they started precisely on him. There is a pattern here. We must ask ourselves if we really want this kind of stuff here, even more with admin status. --- Darwin ^Ahoy! 19:40, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Its completly relevant, when you change a quote so it better fits your desysop you are lying to the complete community. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 19:18, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

• Since the quote "wipe my ass with every policy I can find [to protect my family]" is based on a blatant lie from Abigor ("I got a e-mail saying hey your girlfriend is on commons sure as hell I reacted and deleted the picture, I nor Eva did give any permission for the use of this file"), and therefore immaterial to this whole case, and its emotive character seems to be disrupting this request and dispersing attention from real matters, I would ask Jcb if he could kindly remove it from this request header, to avoid further disruption. This is the exact way trolling works, and giving prominence to such trolling by placing it at the starting sentence is only giving it the attention it does not deserves.--- Darwin ^Ahoy! 20:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Deleted text by Jcb

• I added the real quote above the nomination, but I got reverted. Seems to me that user:jcb has somethng to hide? 84.19.165.217 19:33, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

This is reverted 4 times by jcb and he even blocked the user. It seems that jcb doesn't accept other opinions? 84.19.169.162 19:47, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

The above text is removed a few times by Jcb and he ended with blocking both ip's and the range. I placed it back including the top message. Its not forbidden for anomynous users to give there opinions, they just cant vote. Huib talk ^{Abigor @ meta} 20:14, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

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This text was added (and re-added back) by user(s) editing through identified open proxies which have been afterwards blocked indefinitely by myself and Jcb (talk · contribs). This is why I have removed the text again; the whole statement can be seen in the link provided by the nominator. I urge all voters to pay attention to the link in question. Thanks, odder (talk) 20:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I can confirm that both IPs were used by Abigor himself Mardetanha ^talk 20:56, 29 June 2011 (UTC)