User talk:Rd232/Archive 7

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Congratulations, Dear Administrator!

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An offering for our new administrator from your comrades...

Rd232, congratulations! You now have administrator rights on Commons. Please take a moment to read the Commons:Administrators page and watchlist related pages (in particular Commons:Administrators' noticeboard and its subpages), before launching yourself into page deletions, page protections, account blockings or modifications of protected pages. The majority of the actions of administrators can be reversed by the other admins, except for history merges which must thus be treated with particular care. Have a look at the list of Gadgets (on the bottom there are the ones specifically for admins – however, for example the UserMessages are very helpful too).

Please feel free to join us on IRC: #wikimedia-commons ^webchat on irc.libera.chat. There is also a channel for Commons admins, which may be useful for more sensitive topics, or coordination among administrators: #wikimedia-commons-admin ^webchat.

You may find Commons:Guide to adminship to be useful reading. You can find the admin backlog overview at COM:AB.

Please also check or add your entry to the List of administrators and the related lists by language and date it references.

-- Cecil (talk) 20:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

• Welcome to the team. -- RE rillke questions? 20:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks. An additional welcome to adminship: "Error: Script error." repeated 3x at the top of every page! I wonder what the heck's doing that? Rd232 (talk) 21:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Sorted. There must be some kind of admin script in Common.js that's sensitive to per-user scripts; deactivating some things I didn't use has got rid of the errors. Unexpected... Rd232 (talk) 21:14, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

congrats and welcome. cheers, Amada44  ^{talk to me} 22:17, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I've borrowed the {{SUL}} box from your user page. :) Rd232 (talk) 22:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

• Welcome to the team. You may find User:Jameslwoodward/Commons notes for administrators useful -- feel free to add to it or edit it. Now you'll be able to test {{Delf}} on DelReqHandler yourself.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Cheers Rd232! --Katarighe (talk) 01:02, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Congrats Rd232! (Sorry I couldn't vote, though!) Best, Rehman 03:57, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

• I just now saw that you're an admin. Congrats! I'm admittedly a little late, but I missed your RFA in my absence. I'm glad Commons has one more person with a lot of technical knowledge with +sysop. :) Killiondude (talk) 06:15, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Template talk:TemplateBox/layout

I'm not sure I understand this, but, fortunately, you can now do it yourself.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

yes, thanks, done. I thought I'd tidied those old requests up. Rd232 (talk) 16:11, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello Rd232, I hope you are fine. Found now the time to implement it:

Hello, Rd232. You have new messages at Rillke/Discuss/2011's talk page. You may remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

-- RE rillke questions? 16:43, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:Bot

I see you're working on the template and using the new features on pages. Could you please update the documentation to reflect the changes in the template? Thank you, Multichill (talk) 13:42, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I will do. I'm still fiddling with it. It didn't have any documentation at all until yesterday... Rd232 (talk) 14:34, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Regarding this change. I would like to note, that bot is active in ru-wiki and i may forget to update it back when someone will ask to use bot on commons. vlsergey (talk) 11:18, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

There should probably be a different status type for that situation. What do you suggest? Rd232 (talk) 11:36, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why we need this kind of flag with active (non-blocked) botowner anyway, so i have no idea. 81.5.64.217 12:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

User page

One use does not exclude the other, isn't it?

I'll categorize it properly. -- Magister Mathematicae 19:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Well not exclude, no. But a massive gallery can distract from the useful information (depending on formatting), and can cause page load issues for users without broadband. Thanks for adding the userboxes. Rd232 (talk) 19:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Commons:For Wikipedians and the law

Hi ! You state on this page that "For Commons, media must in addition be lawful in the country where the image was taken and in the country where the image was first published.". Would you be able to direct me to the policy page which states this ? File:Black genitalia.jpg is being discussed, and that image is unlikely to be lawful in the source country, whereas it is almost certainly legal in the US. Thanks. --Claritas (talk) 21:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

HNY

--Nevit Dilmen (talk) 13:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

RfA

Hi, thanks for your question at my RfA. It's a bit late for me to look at it today, though I should be able to give it some thought tomorrow. Sorry there is so much griefing in the discussion to deal with. It really is a lightening rod, though with an interesting consequence of shining light on some accounts that have been troubling for quite some time. --Fæ (talk) 23:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Fæ, I wonder what this comment of yours is supposed to mean. I thought all your "opposes" were from new arrivals. It sounds like you're now saying that there are disloyal elements among longstanding commons contributors who need to be taken care of.67.168.135.107 05:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

67.168.135.107, I doubt anyone is reading your comments any longer, considering your contribution history and single purpose. --Fæ (talk) 08:29, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Rd232, I am reconsidering the situation and seeking advice after the recent blackmail threat. --Fæ (talk) 08:29, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry for your situation, I hope it was just idle words from that user. Rd232 (talk) 14:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

The issue

You say on the current RfA page "Bottom line, if English Wikipedia's issues with Fae were not enough to prevent adminship being gained, then offwiki discussion (whether you call it canvassing or not) should not be permitted to torpedo Commons adminship." I think if we are searching for a point, and for finality, you have made it well. But let me ask you: if you found there were really really something wrong with that process - let's say, if the community had not been given the full information they need, or if there had been some other procedural irregularity - would you still be holding to that point? The whole discussion 'off wiki' is precisely about that issue. There need to be checks and balances over users claiming 'clean starts' to avoid scrutiny of really really bad things. Do you agree? Peter Damian (talk) 23:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

PS I am writing to you here to avoid cluttering up an already messy RfA, and because you alone of the commenters seem to have got to the kernel of the issue. Peter Damian (talk) 23:47, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't reply to this - I hope you saw my comments at COM:AN, which I think cover the question. If not (and if you still want to pursue it), feel free to ask again. Rd232 (talk) 14:45, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes I noticed your comments at AN, which partly covers it, but doesn't really get to the root of the issue, which is two things. (1) First, we are forced to rely on your judgment that there were no serious issues about the RfC in April 2010. It is a basic and fundamental principle of Wikipedia that wherever possible, the community decides on important matters, by consensus, not on some nominated individual, unless there are overriding, genuine reasons for privacy or protection against harassment. (2) I cannot see any such overriding reasons in the present case. I have looked carefully at the chronology between March and April 2010 on en. As late as March 22 2010 Fae (via old account) was not claiming harassment. On March 28 he had already created the current one. The RfC itself was in April 2010. I have asked John Vandenberg whether there were in fact reason to believe in harassment, but he has not replied.

The issues raised in the RfC were fairly serious for someone who would later become an administrator. They involved linking to commercial sites, tag-teaming with another editor, since banned, who also regularly called 'harassment' whenever challenged about paid editing, conflict of interest, misrepresentation of sources, outing in BLPs. These are even more serious in someone who is represented Wikimedia in UK parliament, and is a Wikimedia UK trustee. Why wasn't the community allowed to much a judgment based on the available evidence, both in the March 2011 RfA on en, and the current one here. Allowing to claim 'harassment' at any challenge to questionable editing, then to wipe the slate clean and disallowing the community to make the judgment is an open invitation to abuse the system, in my view.

Anyway, Happy New Year, and I am sorry you had to be involved in such a genuinely difficult judgement. With every kind wish Peter Damian (talk) 16:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

(i) well sometimes you have to trust the people you're supposed to trust. But in this case, you can guess who knows where the RFC is, and ask them. (ii) I disagree, having looked at the circumstances. (iii) the RFC only covered misrepresentation of sources, and as I already said, the substance is very weak, and of particular relevance in my assessment is the failure to respond to Fae's detailed rebuttal on the relevant article talk pages of the sourcing questions. Paid editing/COI are not issues I've looked into, since they weren't in the RFC, but I'm satisfied that the people who okayed the en.wp RFA would have done. (iv) as to harassment: the fact that the Fae/old account link was recently reviewed on en.wp without further action, and that no attempt has been made to recall Fae (he's an admin open to recall on en.wp) contributes to that assessment on current events. Rd232 (talk) 01:55, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

In real life, as well as Wikipedia, I NEVER trust the people I am 'supposed' to trust. On the point about your being satisfied, sure, but why couldn't other members of the community have been given the choice. On that 'harassment' thing, who was it who reviewed the link? Are we back to 'trusting the people we are supposed to trust'? On 'the people who OK'd the en.wp RfA, I have written to Vandenberg, who I know quite well, and he has not replied. I shall write again. Peter Damian (talk) 09:58, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

"why" - for the same reason the clean start was necessary in the first place. Even in the internet age, privacy is not quite dead. Rd232 (talk) 16:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Recent revdel

You recently suppressed 28 revisions from the Admins' noticeboard. The first one of those was [1], and the second one was [2]. Is there any reason you suppressed the first one?

Also, may I state that I don't like the frequent use of revision delete here? Either the users are harassing Fae, in which case they need to be blocked, or they aren't, in which case the proper action is to do nothing. This constant use of revision delete is doing nothing but attempting to suppress an issue that has no privacy matters attached to it. NW (Talk) 23:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Reason was the same for all of those: mention of the old account of Fae. To some extent, you're right about the blocking, but that would mean shutting down discussion altogether, rather than attempting to direct it away from problem areas, as well as making a definitive declaration of (deliberate) harassment rather than perhaps misguided mention of private information. This whole thing as a mess, and that would make it a bigger mess by an order of magnitude. As for "use of revision delete here" - I was already thinking, in response to this episode, that it's about time Commons had a revdel policy, even if all it does is document current practice, rather than restrict it as tightly as the en.wp one does. I've added it to my todo list. Rd232 (talk) 01:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflicted) I can't see what's been removed there, but please note that some user talks still contain the information that has been deleted or at least redacted elsewhere, and looks like if a single instance is forgotten then all the others are restored because "information is already available elsewhere" ;-). Thank you, Nemo 01:32, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Can you point them out? At this point it's getting somewhat moot, even if the community doesn't decide to reverse the existing revdels, but I'd like to see. Rd232 (talk) 01:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I've not reread everything, but I think User talk:Bali ultimate is were I saw it. Nemo 09:20, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Rd232 (talk) 12:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you feel your attempt to "direct [discussion] away from problem areas" has succeeded? Peter Damian (talk) 10:01, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Clearly not to the degree I would have wanted, no. There were just too many people too keen to pursue those issues. Well, braking an out-of-control train is still better than nothing, even if you can't manage to stop it. Rd232 (talk) 12:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I think there were "too many people too keen to pursue those issues" because they, like me, cherish the ideals of openness and transparency. I'm sorry you don't share those ideals (I am assuming you don't, because you say 'too many people', implying there should not have been so many, and 'too keen', implying they should not have been so keen to pursue transparency. I am researching Wikipedia at the moment, looking at the discussion forums in 2001-2, and for something like this to happen would have been unthinkable then. Regards Peter Damian (talk) 15:01, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm a member of Amnesty International, so don't assume. I came across a phrase recently that I'm reminded of here: "your right to swing your fist stops at my nose". Rights often collide, and judgements have to be made. In this case, the bottom line is that there is a two-year-old en.wiki conflict being pursued on Commons in a way that is inappropriate for reasons I've repeatedly explained. Rd232 (talk) 15:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

desysop

You were warned many times and you decided to be even more abusive. It has to come to an end. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:22, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Yet again, your relationship to facts is ... interesting. Did I vote on Fae's adminship request? I did not. Did I express doubts about whether I could support it? I did. Sigh. Rd232 (talk) 15:34, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Involvement is not limited to voting. Everyone knows that, which is another piece of evidence that you are not fit to be an admin. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

you stated that I had voted. Your evasive, misleading, assumption-filled and aggressive response is classic, classic Ottava. And I say that (counting myself fortunate in that...) despite not knowing you that long. Rd232 (talk) 15:42, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I changed it to blanking the page and the rest of your actions there. You were a participant in multiple discussions involving the vote. That is really clear involvement. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

[3]Neutral votes are still votes, fyi. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

A comment in a discussion section is not a vote. Again, you seem to prefer to tie yourself in knots, or else ignore adverse evidence, rather than change your position or admit error. Rd232 (talk) 15:50, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Involvement does not flow from admin actions in relation to a single episode, as you well know. Rd232 (talk) 15:51, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

You were heavily involved in debating with others. That procludes you from using admin actions. You should have learned that when ArbCom chastised you before for using admin tools while involved. And all neutral votes are votes regardless if you call them a "comment". You used the vote template. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:53, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I refuse to go into the Arbcom mess with you again, other than to note that Arbcom changed its rules in response to that finding passing. {{Comment}} is a comment template, in my universe. Rd232 (talk) 15:59, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

A happy new year

Hello Rd232,

Your userpage is a nice collection of what you achieved and it also shows that there is a lot of work for 2012. I hope you have a good start and a succesfull, good new year.

I suggest just ignoring Ottava from now on. User:Dschen has a ignore-this-user-javascript solution. I don't know how well this works, but if it doesn't, I offer to rewrite it.

Ottava seems, indeed having a strange relationship to facts and makes wrong claims about having CU-information, misguiding other users. But I don't prefer talking about the user's weaknesses, I would prefer if Ottava would help to reduce backlogs here: E.g. categorizing files. Best regards -- RE rillke questions? 15:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Compliments on all your good work, and I hope you have time for some of the Javascripty parts of my wish list in 2012 :) Guten Rutsch!

I have no idea how to steer Ottava away from areas where his contributions are clearly not helpful. Perhaps if Commons had an arbcom, it would eventually get to the point of him being banned, as happened on en.wiki, but it doesn't. Rd232 (talk) 16:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Error in link

File:Errrorcatalan.jpeg This is the link with the problem. Only in catalan language. Cameta (talk) 22:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Hm, thanks for the screenshot, that's very very clear! :) - but changing my language to Catalan, I don't have any problem. Can you try switching your skin to something other than Monobook (to deactivate your monobook Javascript) and see if you still have the problem? Rd232 (talk) 23:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Ah, resolved in the original VP thread, I think. Rd232 (talk) 06:09, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, resolved. Cameta (talk) 19:25, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

TUSC token 14bb3813be5ee77644fd8544ed163f0e

I am now proud owner of a TUSC account! Rd232 (talk) 06:09, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

massive copyvio by a user

While editing on commons I found this http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kit-arras It is impossible to be the author of these photos

• year 1932
  year 1932
• year 1966
  year 1966
• year 1980
  year 1980

Cameta (talk) 00:00, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll look into it. Rd232 (talk) 00:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

And, eventually: Commons:Deletion requests/Files of User:Kit-arras. Rd232 (talk) 15:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Fyi

SB Johnny was proven not to have had community consensus. Furthermore, even ArbCom was sent proof where not only did SB Johnny admit to calling my phone irl without permission but boasted publicly about contacting my priest and people I know as a way to intimidate me. I am not posting the links to that publicly because it contains lots of outing by him, but this is well known. The FBI was even called at one point because of how bad his attacks and actions towards me were. You can look at your email for links. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

And furthermore, I was the only truly active admin on Wikiversity for two years. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:56, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

"proven not to have community consensus"? the discussion you link to doesn't show that, not least because it was a process you seem to have invented for the occasion. I'll look at my email in a minute. Rd232 (talk) 01:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

That link was where the lack of consensus was in fact. He was stripped of adminship by Jimbo with community support for encouraging someone to use Wikiversity as a platform to encourage sock puppet vandalism of Wikipedia. He was then regranted adminship by a Bureaucrat against community consensus. That was a vote to strip him and admonish the crat but the Stewards would not recognize it unless a crat closed it. Since they were the only active crats, they refused to close it. You can talk to PeterSymonds, J.delanoy, or DerHexer about the Stewards involvement in the matter and the decisions surrounding his take over of Wikiversity and why there is no admin activity there from SB Johnny's actions. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Hm. I'm starting to remember why I thought at times that perhaps Wikiversity wasn't the trouble as a project. I'm quite reluctant to get into this... do you mean SB J was stripped of adminship by Jimbo, and regranted it by a local 'crat without a vote? How did Jimbo (or stewards) let that pass?? Rd232 (talk) 07:36, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Quite extraordinarily, they ignored it (although Jimbo said he'd consider shutting the project down). I'll agree with OR that SBJ runs Wikiversity like his own personal fiefdom now, and he's made quite a few questionable blocks. Everything goes along pretty smoothly though, and as Wikiversity de facto has no policies and all important decisions are made via e-mail discussions, there's no real way of changing the state of play. I was an admin there under the username S Larctia, and basically anything one does causes drama (deleting useless, unused non-free images, blocking someone who threatens you with outing and/or physical violence in my personal case). The place really needs a radical overall, with a new set of admins and some focused content contributions. --Claritas (talk) 12:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

As a side note, I see you didn't say anything about Fred, who was banned as WebHamster on Wikipedia and as socking as Fred the Oyster. This is a guy who told me I should kill myself in that thread, who posted two pictures of another user's underwear shots in the thread for no reason, who cusses and makes really nasty attacks, etc. Russavia told everyone to disengage and stop posting, and I did. But Fred continues to make really, really nasty attacks. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I seem to remember looking at the WebHamster issue briefly and the continuation on Commons as Fred seemed OK in principle. I'll have a look at the other stuff later (I accepted Russavia's dealing with it) - RL calls. Rd232 (talk) 07:40, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Versteckspiel

Hallo Rd232, hier ist dein Verstecken aber nicht wirklich sinnvoll - das einzige, was du machst, ist Leyos Entscheidung zu verschleiern. Wenn dann müsstest du auch die Versionen vorher verstecken. Übrigens finde ich, dass hier zur Zeit reichlich viel versteckt wird... Ich habe nicht den ganzen Käse in Gänze gelesen und vertraue mal, dass das richtig läuft. Viele Grüße --Saibo (Δ) 03:39, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ja, Danke, ist doof aber man muss lieder konsequent sein mit diesem Quatsch, wo er eben auftaucht. Rd232 (talk) 07:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I suspect if I spoke German I might be offended. ;) Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:07, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

"yes, thanks, it's not good but one has to be consistent with this nonsense, wherever it appears." Rd232 (talk) 15:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm just interested at what sort of cheese is being referred to. Is he a Wallace & Gromet fan? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 15:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Okay, danke. Noch eine Kleinigkeit: Wenn du ganz viele Edits versteckst, dann ist es mE auch nötig, jeden Diff zu kontrollieren, ob z.B. in anderer Leute Beiträgen herumgeändert wurde und ob richtig signiert wurde. Denn das ist ja nun für die Allgemeinheit nicht mehr nachzuprüfen. Ein Nachteil des Versteckspiels ist übrigens auch, dass man nun keine Difflinks auf Aussagen einzelner Leute mehr angeben kann. Nur falls dir das bisher noch nicht klar war. Viele Grüße --Saibo (Δ) 03:00, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Danke fuer den Hinweis. Man kann Difflinks noch angeben, aber nur Admins koennen den Inhalt sehen. Rd232 (talk) 13:08, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Peyronie's disease shown in flaccid penis.jpg

Be careful, you'll wear that RevDel out at the rate you're going. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 11:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Template:User talk

Hi! Please, could you add the German language to this template {{User talk}}? Thanks a lot and best regards! Angelus ^(talk) 15:51, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Well I could, but my translation skills are a bit rusty; there are others who would do a better job. user:Saibo perhaps. Rd232 (talk) 15:57, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok thank you. On a related note, I fixed the commons bureaucrat icon! Greetings! Angelus ^(talk) 17:45, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you. Rd232 (talk) 20:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Not at all! ;-) Angelus ^(talk) 20:08, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Replies regarding Ottava

Hi Rd232. In reply to this. I have not had any off-wiki communications with Ottava. His claim that "I've shown 5 admin, 2 Commons users and 2 Stewards the emails in question" does not apply to me. If he means something on-wiki, he can point out what he means. In my recollection I have not made any comments about how you have interacted with him or Fred. I do view Fred's interaction as an incivil joke against the subject of an admin discussion removed it and chastised him for it. It is clear to me that Fred's comment can legitimately be taken as a joking suggestion that a way to deal with Ottava is to use a lethal execution chemical (at whatever level of metaphor he intended), and his black humour comment indicates that he is aware of this, although I acknowledge that he has consistently declined to elaborate further or make explicit implications. If I saw any suggestion that it was not a joke, I would have indef-banned on sight. Joking over the internet at another's expense is a very risky game. The first I saw of your email correspondence was when you published it on the noticeboard. While your email did not consider what I think is an important interpretation, I do not think your reply was inappropriate, given that you say upfront that you do not fully understand the joke, and have not come across the execution context for potassium chloride. --99of9 (talk) 01:57, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Knowing the use in executions does make quite a difference to the understanding of the black humour involved; had Fred not said something about "black comedy" early on, I'd have been completely baffled by the remark (almost like "diabetic chocolate?" - huh?). Fred, incidentally, did recently offer some comments at User_talk:Fred_the_Oyster#Fred.27s_humour. Rd232 (talk) 02:04, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I've commented at AN. Tiptoety ^talk 06:54, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Question

Hi Rd232,

Happy New Year! I'd like to ask you a question please. Let's say an editor is blocked indefinitely by a single admin, and then the block is offered for review. Let's say there is no consensus either way neither for unblocking nor for keeping blocked. Should this editor be unblocked or should the block stand? Thank you.--Mbz1 (talk) 05:00, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Another Question

Can you and I discuss a matter here which involves references to my last 12 years of work being deleted on .en? I am banned from editting there. Doug youvan (talk) 18:45, 7 January 2012 (UTC)