Talk:Boris Malagurski

Deliberately misleading

Boris Malagurski persists in removing the (sourced) fact[1] that he was one of 14 winners of the Rosarito Silver Palm Award, Mexico, in the category "Student Films". "Winner, Silver Palm Award, 2009" is directly misleading, it deliberately portrays him as the winner when he was in fact only one of 76 winners of that (not particularly notable) award and only in the category student films along with more than a dozen other film students. All his other awards are less notable than this one. Urban XII (talk) 16:22, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The intent is not to mislead, but to keep up with the format on the previous awards listed. Also, stop calling me that name, if you're accusing me of being that person, do a checkuser. I'm tired of this... --Cinéma C 17:07, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The continued attempts to remove the fact that he won in the category "Student Films" is nothing but simple vandalism, and really a good example of how this article deliberately and misleadingly presents a non-notable person as extremely important. If anyone ever doubted why this vanity should be deleted, you have given them plenty of reasons with your revert-warring to make readers believe this award is so much more important than it really is. Urban XII (talk) 10:34, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe you're mistaken. Nobody is trying to present this person as extremely important. This is an article about a filmmaker who has made a few films, has had interviews in several media outlets, was written about in newspapers, reported about on television and the article itself is well referenced, with reliable secondary sources that support all claims in the article, and no original research. That is how it should stay. --Cinéma C 03:42, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Section

I don't understand why you are trying to delete this part: Boris is also a Serbian propagandist, dedicated to justify war crimes committed by the Serb forces during Yugoslav wars. Rochass (talk) 20:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Sockpuppet of Historičar (talk · contribs)

That is a personal view, not a fact.

Take Alex Jones, for example, who has been accused of being a propagandist by many, you can't find that word anywhere in the introduction. That's because statements of accusation have to be supported by reliable references, second-hand sources. The same goes for the comment regarding war crimes. You can't just watch his film and, if you don't like it, write how he's this and that on Wikipedia - this is not a forum. --Cinéma C 21:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

::You are wrong. There are hundreds of examples in Wikipedia with similar statements about some persons. And deletion of those sentences is considered vandalism. Anyway I included relevant tag - citation needed, and if there's no relevant source to support the claim in a near future (few months) then be my guest and delete the sentence. Rochass (talk) 20:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Sockpuppet of Historičar (talk · contribs)

That's not how it works, my friend. Find a source first. --Cinéma C 23:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Boris Malagurski photo.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Vreme je

Resolved

UrbanVillager, you removed two times some films from the filmography section.

1. The first time you used the following argument "Those were student films)" and when I reverted you explaining that student films should be included in the filmography because he received awards for them (i.e. for Vreme je) and that removal of student films is not good explanation because The Canada project is also a "student film" you reverted my edit.
2. The second time you did not use "student film argument" but another two arguments: 1) These films are not on IMDb. and 2) Canada Project was on National Television.

Regardless of the presence of those films on IMDb or National Television, BM received awards for Vreme je, or Canada project and those films should not be deleted because awards those films received give them notability and therefore they should be included in the list. Even the other films of BM which are not on IMDb should be included in the list because he was their author. Wikipedia:Manual of Style, section for filmographies does not say that filmography should exclude films which are not listed on IMDb or not published on National Television.

If I am wrong, please provide arguments within reasonable period of time. Otherwise I will return deleted films in the list within filmography section.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:27, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

It's a question of notability. Sure, he made them, but do we list his home movies too? "Ozbiljna gimnazija", from what I was able to find, was only shown in his highschool. I guess "Vreme je" is OK, so that can be added, but I don't see that "Kits" or "Communist Spy" won any awards. One other film which could be added is "Slamarke" (2007), which was shown on Serbian TV, but the film is less than 3 minutes long, so I'm not sure how notable that is. If you ask me, I think only adding "Vreme je" is OK, and maybe Slamarke. The rest are just, from what I understood, student projects which weren't screened publicly outside of BM's school. --UrbanVillager (talk) 16:24, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:06, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Admin, Malagurski's "movie" is more like a video stuff one records and plays with. There is no nobilty. This man is a genocide denier and Serbian propagandists. He is far from being neutral. Yet he was banned from Wikipedia and he is back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.176.36 (talk) 00:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Boris Malagurski article full of lies

The criticism of Boris Malagurski's video clip (it's too badly done to be called a "movie" or "documentary") can be read in English now, http://baginst.com/The%20Weight%20of%20War%20Crimes%20ZIJAD.pdf . Boris Malagurski was banned from Wikipedia, yet he is back again and is editing his own article. Admins, why don't you ban user http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cin%C3%A9ma_C <-- he is Boris Malagurski and he is using a different IP # to make himself "famous" on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.176.36 (talk) 00:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The article you listed here was written by some irrelevant blogger (Here's his blog) and it does not constitute as facts or the opinion of "critics". Wikipedia only recognizes relevant sources, and they have been listed as references. Thanks, --UrbanVillager (talk) 22:58, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I looked for it and quickly found that the same blog post was reposted at E-novine, which does not appear to be any more more unreliable than e.g. Press, just with an opposite slant. As is, the article is pretty much a hagiography of Malagurski, which is a WP:BLP violation just as well - an article stating the contrary is a step in the right direction to restoring some balance. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:54, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Joy, E-novine is nothing more than a sophisticated blog site. Press is a print newspaper that is widely read in Serbia. I agree that every article should have a balance, but there needs to be a more serious reference, not just a site that re-posts blog entries. --UrbanVillager (talk) 08:02, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

E-novine seems to be an outlet used by reasonably respectable journalists and is well known internationally, which elevates it well beyond the status of an unreliable blog, and it's certainly no different than a Serbian tabloid that is well known to be 'feuding' with similar newspapers in Croatia. Your outright revert of my good-faith edits is unacceptable and I've warned you on your talk page about it. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:38, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

If your definition of "respectable" and "well known internationally" is used for describing a website that re-posts personal blog entries, then we won't reach a consensus on this issue. You listed Press as being on the same level - which is not true. Press is a print newspaper, not an online blog re-posting site. In fact, after Blic, Press is the most read paid newspaper in Serbia. --UrbanVillager (talk) 11:38, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

My definition is primarily based on data from a simple search such as http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=e-novine where one can see e-novine mentioned by a variety of random, neutral sources - it has general notability. General readership of Press does not necessarily impress (heh). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Your definition doesn't change the fact that e-novine, in this specific case, merely re-posted a blog post, as I indicated in my previous comments. Blog posts are not references. --UrbanVillager (talk) 00:37, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

And what about novinar.de, attack site whose purpose is to promote extreme nationalism and religious sects. E-novine are much more reliable source than this garbage.--В и к и T 06:54, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Point well taken, as it seems that anybody can write for novinar.de. I removed the novinar.de references. However, E-Novine can't be reliable either, as it too merely copies blog posts and presents them as "news". --UrbanVillager (talk) 12:27, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I agree with you about E-novine. One more question: Why is this article marked as high on importance scale for WikiProject Serbia. Boris is young, perspective and handsome film director, but definitely not so important. It should be changed to mid.--В и к и T 13:00, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, feel free to change it to mid. --UrbanVillager (talk) 10:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

This article is like an hagiographic, a resumé-advertising bio of a pretentious Serb-Canadian kid than a text of some REAL importance. Come on people, have you EVER seen or heard about this Boris M. outside Wikipedia, Russia Today... and ITS OWN WEBSITE? Poor guy, he wants to get more prestige than Angelina Jolie...--201.81.237.228 (talk) 08:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

The article should have remained deleted, as it did after a number of votes for deletion.Estlandia (Miacek) (dialogue) 11:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Malagurski is quite well known in Serbia and Bosnia. His films get shown on TV there all the time. Just the other night "The Weight of Chains" was on BN Television (Covers all of Bosnia and Serbia, and on Satellite throughout the world). And he's in the media a couple of times per month. Just check out how many hits "Boris Malagurski" has on Google. Countless articles about him, meaning that there are secondary sources about this person (Wikipedia asks for only 2 when it comes to notability, this person surpassed that a long, long time ago), so please don't base your opinion on personal bias, but rather stick to the rules of Wikipedia and consider that just because you haven't heard of this person, doesn't mean he's not notable. Regards, --UrbanVillager (talk) 08:17, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

“Actually, Malagurski is quite well known in Serbia and Bosnia. His films get shown on TV there all the time.”

Obviously, since his movies are in the traditions of “Serb victimization” and negationism of the Serbian war crimes during the Yugoslav Wars with the intention of creating the “Greater Serbia” of Slobodan Milosevic… I doubt Malagurski and his movies are known in parts of Bosnia not dominated by Republika Srpska… or even Canada, where the guy has been living for years!

Other thing to note is that the simple quantity of Google citations don’t make someone or something relevant. I bet many porn actors has much more Google results than B. Malagurski, but they are not considered relevant enough to deserve an article here in Wikipedia. Even PLAYBOY PLAYMATES only have their own articles in very special cases here!--201.81.224.11 (talk) 15:58, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

What a wonderful forum Wikipedia is for the discussion of the great achievements of this prodigy of a director! How shameful to compare his achievements with those of porn actors and Playboy Playmates. Thanks to you, Urban Villager, for the hours of innocent amusement and entertainment you've given us (eg "Fair enough, feel free to change it to mid (importance)" - what a hoot!). May the unworthy ask when the next masterpiece is due? Opbeith (talk) 23:26, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

And I just took a look at UrbanVillager's Google link above multiply confirming Boris's notability. I was particularly struck by:

"BORIS MALAGURSKI & "THE WEIGHT OF CHAINS" REVIEW

srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/.../boris-malagurski-weight-of-chains.html - Cached

9 Oct 2011 ... PHOTO 1/2: Boris Malagurski, unemployed Vancouver-based amateur "film

director", apologist for Serbian Nazi-collaborating Chetniks and a ..."

Now there's notability money can't buy!Opbeith (talk) 14:23, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Removal of sources.

Well, official selection is the term for film festivals. That is not the title, but the factographic name of the participation movies. And, for the fest, same as here --WhiteWriter^speaks 19:07, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

The source doesn't actually call it an official selection. It's just a list without context. What, are thirteen films from Serbia alone given some prestigious honour of "official selection" at the International Festival of New Latin American Cinema? We should stick to what sources actually say. bobrayner (talk) 14:34, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Sources do not need to say that, it is obvious that is official selection. official selection is an expression for the chosen film in the film festivals. It looks like you are just trying to minimize this event. --WhiteWriter^speaks 11:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree with WhiteWriter, Official Selection is the term that film festivals use, and there really is widespread consensus regarding the matter, not only on Wikipedia. --UrbanVillager (talk) 11:41, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

And stop with the removal of sourced content, if you have some problem with Bridgefest, gain consensus first, and stop with the removal. I will ask for admin help, unless you dont start using talk page up until agreement. --WhiteWriter^speaks 12:04, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

As always, Boris's networking skills are formidable. Sadly for Boris, though, Wikipedia has institutional memory of his devious and manipulative behaviour here before he was banned and that will inevitably and legitimately inform the comments of sceptical editors confronted by the latest content embellishments added by his coterie of friends and supporters. It's impossible not to forget that Boris is an associate of and apologist for those who perpetrated or assisted the perpetrators of some of the worst crimes against humanity committed in the last half-century and that his undeniable talents are repeatedly deployed for promotional and propagandist purposes on their behalf. Opbeith (talk) 12:52, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Your essay and personal opinion monologue is unrelated to question we have here. This is not a talk page where we should discuss what we think about this person, but page where we should fix some problems. --WhiteWriter^speaks 13:22, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Let's fix some problems, then!

• How about we start with the awards won by Malagurski's films - including the grand awards from mysterious, untraceable "film fests" which are based in the same city that he lives in...? For instance you have to go back in time a couple of years with the Internet Wayback machine in order to learn more about Bridge Fest: [2] - there's no evidence that it's a real film fest rather than one person's vanity project. There's even less evidence of the BC Days filmfest; all we know is that it's... in a suburb of Vancouver, a few minutes drive from where Bridge Productions was based.
• Why does the article pretend that he's some great auteur, when even airbrushed resume on the website his mommy set up for him has job titles like "intern" and "telemarketing"...?
• Why has criticism of this person's films - actual criticism by independent people - been removed? The few independent sources on this person have been bulldozed. And our content on his films is used for blatant coatrack by those who share his view of history.
• Malagurki's own promotional fluff said he was a film student at the university of British Columbia a few years ago, and it was obviously important to him, but there's no sign of that on the article now. Doesn't he even have a degree in film-making? What happened?

Can we fix those problems? It's just one big pile of self-promotion. Why do editors support it? bobrayner (talk) 13:59, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, everything can be fixed. One by one. What do you propose? All awards from article are "traceable", what have you pointed exactly? And regarding biography, i dont understand your bad faith toward this person. Telemarketer. That was in 2005, so he was 17 years old. If you ask me, it is great that 17 years old person do anything more then school, so this is only plus, and not minus. Then BC fest have its own website http://www.bcsff.com/. Nothing wrong there, ordinary festival. --WhiteWriter^speaks 14:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

'That filmfest has a different name and their site does not mention Malagurski. (Still, I'm glad that the kids of Pinewood Elementary got the recognition they deserve). I do not understand why you repeatedly bring sources which obviously say nothing about the subject of the article. Seriously; an IMDB page which doesn't mention Malagurski or any of his films is not a sufficient source for claiming he won some great award; nor is the website of a filmfest with a different name which also says nothing about Malagurski. This blatant disregard for WP:V is bizarre - why do you keep on doing it? bobrayner (talk) 14:46, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Meanwhile, if I remove deceptive content, UrbanVillager automatically reverts it as "vandalism", which is just as bad. Please stop. bobrayner (talk) 18:14, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, the blatant self-promotion in this article does require admin intervention.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 18:47, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

ZjarriRrethues, many Albanian users of Wikipedia seem to often warrant a higher power to intervene when they can't win with rational argumentation. In this case, you didn't even try to use some arguments. While I see a parallel with the international and public relations efforts of Albanian interest groups in the Balkans and the Western world, Wikipedia is a place where we reach a consensus based on facts and references. This is your first comment on this talk page and already you're seeking admin intervention. Unacceptable. --UrbanVillager (talk) 19:47, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, ZjarriRrethues, unacceptable. Those of us who have seen the outcome of admin investigation of the activities of Boris's merry clique of admirers [3] know that Wikipedia's verdict is that nothing must disturb the enjoyment of their privilege to celebrate the work of the greatest exponent of modern Serbian-Canadian cinema ever actually to have been banned from Wikipedia. Opbeith (talk) 20:04, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

You know, regarding your "banned from Wikipedia" story, I'm starting to think that the banned user account Bormalagurski might not have even had anything to do with the Boris Malagurski that this article is about, I really don't see where a prominent filmmaker would ever had found the time to make films and edit on Wikipedia at the same time, not to mention that it's impossible to prove that people are who they present themselves to be on Wikipedia. Who can stop me, Opbeith, from assuming that you're, maybe, Haris Silajdžić? Certainly, I could easily find many ideological parallels. But all jokes aside, I did a search on Facebook, and I found a completely different Boris Malagurski that exists, so who knows. It's easy to speculate, but hard to prove anything. --UrbanVillager (talk) 01:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Bob, in regards to your points, I'll go one by one:

• I used the Internet Wayback Machine for bridge-fest.com, and found Kosovo: Can You Imagine? in the screening schedule (May 7, 2009, 3 PM). The festival is listed on Withoutabox, a part of IMDb (a division of Amazon.com) right here. As for the BC Days Film Festival, there doesn't have to be a website for a festival as proof that it exists, many festivals don't have websites or take them down after some time. What we do have are references that the film won an award there.
• He's not a great film author because he worked as an intern or telemarketer. Many famous people worked different jobs before they made big films, I fail to see why that's important at all here. He's a good filmmaker because of his filmmaking work, not which jobs he maybe does in his spare time. Don't mix things up.
• Criticism is welcome on Wikipedia if its substantiated with important references. I can't write a blog post and then edit an article with my opinion. Not to mention simply adding my opinion of the guy or his films. The stuff that's in the article is supported by secondary sources and media articles that are founded on facts.
• I don't know anything about his diploma, you're going to have to ask him if you're curious. After all, Wikipedia is not a place where you post your resume (even though you decided that it was important to list that he allegedly worked as an intern and telemarketer). --UrbanVillager (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2012 (UTC)