Template talk:Did you know

Did you know?
Introduction and rules
Introduction	WP:DYK
General discussion	WT:DYK
Guidelines	WP:DYKCRIT
Reviewer instructions	WP:DYKRI
Nominations
Nominate an article	WP:DYKCNN
Awaiting approval	WP:DYKN
Approved	WP:DYKNA
April 1 hooks	WP:DYKAPRIL
Holding area	WP:SOHA
Preparation
Preps and queues	T:DYK/Q
Prepper instructions	WP:DYKPBI
Admin instructions	WP:DYKAI
Main Page errors	WP:ERRORS
History
Statistics	WP:DYKSTATS
Archived sets	WP:DYKA
Just for fun
Monthly wraps	WP:DYKW
Awards	WP:DYKAWARDS
Userboxes	WP:DYKUBX
Hall of Fame	WP:DYK/HoF
List of users ...
... by nominations	WP:DYKNC
... by promotions	WP:DYKPC
Administrative
Scripts and bots	WP:DYKSB
On the Main Page	T:DYK
Main Page errors	WP:ERRORS
To ping the DYK admins	{{DYK admins}}

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page.

Instructions

Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination.

DYK criteria

Official criteria: DYK rules and additional guidelines Unofficial Guide: Learning DYK

How to list a new nomination

Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.

1. Nom without image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
2. Nom with image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}

   To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook: |article2= |article3= |article4= | (etc)

   To include more than one author: |author2= |author3= | (etc)

   To include alternate hooks: |ALT1= |ALT2= | (etc)

   To add a comment: |comment=

   To add the article you reviewed: |reviewed=

Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however.
Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you.
Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template.
Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.

An example of how to use the template is given below. Full details are at {{NewDYKnom}}:

{{subst:NewDYKnom
 | article       = Example`
 | status        = new<!--(or) expanded-->
 | hook          = ... that this [[article]] is an '''[[example]]''' ''(pictured)''?
 | author        = User
 | nominator     =
 | image         = Example.png
 | rollover      = An example image
 | comment       =
}}

• Note that you should only use one of the above templates for the original hook. If you want to suggest a second, alternative hook for the same article submission, just type it in manually. The above templates output useful code for each submission and if you employ them for alternative hooks, you will mess up the page formatting.
• When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
• If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|June 9}} Thanks, ~~~~

How to review a nomination

Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, or may suggest new hooks.

If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or note that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:

Symbol	Code	DYK Ready?	Description
	{{subst:DYKtick}}	Yes	No problems, ready for DYK
	{{subst:DYKtickAGF}}	Yes	Article is ready for DYK, with a foreign-language or offline hook reference accepted in good faith
	{{subst:DYK?}}	Query	DYK eligibility requires that an issue be addressed. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
	{{subst:DYK?no}}	Maybe	DYK eligibility requires additional work. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
	{{subst:DYKno}}	No	Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible

Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page, in case they do not notice that there is an issue.

Backlogged?

This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.

Where is my hook?

If you can't find the hook you submitted to this page, in most cases it means your article has been approved and is in the queue for display on the main page. You can check whether your hook has been moved to the queue by reviewing the queue listings.

If your hook is not in the queue or already on the main page, it has probably been deleted. Deletion occurs if the hook is more than about eight days old and has unresolved issues for which any discussion has gone stale. If you think your hook has been unfairly deleted, you can query its deletion on the discussion page, but as a general rule deleted hooks will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.

Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on August 23

Loss of Gazelle XX377

• ... that it was four years before the British government revealed that a Gazelle helicopter (example pictured) was shot down by friendly fire during the Falklands War?

Created by Ryan4314 (talk). Self nom at 14:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Construction of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System

• ... that 32 people were killed during construction of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System?

Created by JKBrooks85 (talk). Self nom at 12:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

George Eyser

• .. that in 1904, gymnast George Eyser won 6 Olympic medals, including gold in the vault (example pictured), although he had a wooden prosthesis for a leg?

5x expanded by Materialscientist (talk). Self nom at 12:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Chrystian Piotr Aigner

• ... that Polish architect Chrystian Piotr Aigner (1756–1841) used a range of styles including Classicist, Neoclassicist, Palladian, Neogothic, Empire and Romantic?

Created by Nihil novi (talk). Self nom at 11:33, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Kari Gjesteby

• ... that Kari Gjesteby is the first female State Conciliator of Norway?

Created by Geschichte (talk). Self nom at 10:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Mass-luminosity relation

• ... the Mass-luminosity relation for stars helps astronomers find the distances to binary star systems?

Created by Danski14 (talk). Self nom at 05:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT:

... the Mass-luminosity relation, first derived by Arthur Eddington in 1924, helps astronomers find the distances to binary star systems?

Articles created/expanded on August 22

My Boy Jack (film)

• ... that My Boy Jack, a 2007 film starring Daniel Radcliffe and David Haig, is based on one of Haig's plays of the same name?

• Comment: Expansion diff

5x expanded by NuclearWarfare (talk), Blurpeace (talk), GwydionM (talk). Self nom at 04:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• Yep a 5x expansion. And nice to see a non-Harry Potter related Radcliffe article Francium12 (talk) 09:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Livery Stable Blues

• ... that the Original Dixieland Jass Band's "Livery Stable Blues" (1917) was the first released jazz recording?

Created by Jafeluv (talk). Self nom at 23:27, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Meets criteria. genuinely interesting. Well referenced hook Francium12 (talk) 10:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Celebrity Big Brother (UK) housemates

• ... that there have been 57 celebrity housemates in the British version of Big Brother?

Created by Dalejenkins (talk). Self nom at 22:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• New article from Sandbox. Meets criteria but What about Chantelle Houghton? Surely the hook should add a caveat about her? Francium12 (talk) 12:38, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• In the programme, Chantelle gained "celebrity status" from Big Brother by passing her task and she has since become a celebrity in her own right. And "celebrity" really is subjective; she'd modelled for Page 3 before going onto the programme. DJ 12:50, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, Jack Tweed and Jackiey Budden weren't really celebrities in their own right; they were just realtives of Jade Goody but were still reffered to as "celebrities". It's a very subjective issue. DJ 13:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• I'll pass it based on your response. I haven't watched a BB since BB2! Francium12 (talk) 14:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Pilina unguis

• ... that palaeozic monoplacophoran Pilina unguis (pictured) was twice larger than any known recent monoplacophoran?

Created by Snek01 (talk). Self nom at 21:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Tweak to the hook's grammar and capitalization: ALT1: ... that the Palaeozic monoplacophoran Pilina unguis (pictured) was twice larger than any known living monoplacophoran?

I don't know whether "twice larger than" is the same as "three times as large as" in this usage. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT1 is OK. Thanks. --Snek01 (talk) 11:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Captain Munnerlyn

• ... that Carolina Panthers cornerback Captain Munnerlyn said that despite having an "odd name" he says it makes him "feel like I'm a leader"?

• ALT1:... that in the same game, Captain Munnerlyn returned a kickoff for 84 yards and field goal for 81 yards?

5x expanded by Giants27 (talk). Self nom at 21:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• I much prefer a hook based upon the second one Francium12 (talk) 14:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Alex Stavrinou

• ... that despite being born in Harlow, England, Alex Stavrinou qualified to play for the Cyprus youth football team through his father's Cypriot heritage?

Created by Jimbo online (talk). Self nom at 21:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• I count 1530ish characters. You know how to win on DYK!. Francium12 (talk) 09:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

White pox disease

• ... that the cause of White pox disease (pictured) devastating Elkhorn coral in the Caribbean is Serratia marcescens, a common fecal intestinal bacterium found in humans and other animals?

Created by Mattisse (talk). Self nom at 20:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Mansfield State Historic Site

• ... that the Mansfield State Historic Site in western Louisiana commemorates an 1864 Confederate victory by General Richard Taylor, which prevented a pending Union invasion of Texas?

Created by Billy Hathorn (talk). Self nom at 19:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Youssef Seddik (philosopher)

• ... that Tunisian philosopher Youssef Seddik attempted to publish a Qur'an in the form of seven volumes of comics in 1992?

Created by Dr. Blofeld (talk). Self nom at 18:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Robin Hoare

• ... that Robin Hoare received the Albert Medal for removing depth charges from HM Motor Launch 356 after its engine room exploded, despite the flames, thus preventing a further explosion?

Created by Dormskirk (talk). Nominated by Jujutacular (talk) at 17:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

artillery of Japan

• ... that the artillery of Japan (pictured) involved in the 19th century widely disparate technologies, such as wooden cannons and howitzers?

Created by PHG (talk). Self nom at 16:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT1:... that the 19th-century artillery of Japan (pictured) involved widely disparate technologies, such as wooden cannons and howitzers? Art LaPella (talk) 17:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I support the alternative. The wording is slightly confusing in the first hook. Jujutacular ^talk_contribs 17:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Shearing the Rams

• ... that new evidence revealed that Australian artist Tom Roberts painted much of his masterpiece Shearing the Rams on location en plein air, not in his Melbourne studio as previously believed?

Created by Mattinbgn (talk). Self nom at 13:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Good to go. Shimgray | talk | 15:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Breech-loading swivel guns

• ... that breech-loading swivel guns (pictured) were used widely from the 14th century, although breech-loading is usually considered a modern innovation?

Created by PHG (talk). Self nom at 13:27, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Good to go. Shimgray | talk | 15:44, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Mayor of Gibraltar

• ... that the Mayor of Gibraltar is a ceremonial official appointed by Parliament from among the Gibraltarian community at large, for a period of one year?

Created by Gibmetal77 (talk). Self nom at 12:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't see anything unusual or interesting about this, since mayoral appointments usually follow a similar format. Does the appointment give any unusual or interesting rights or duties? That might be better-qualified for DYK. Rodhullandemu 00:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

If you look at the article you can see this is a new thing as the Mayor had to be appointed from within Parliament. I hope this helps... Thanks, --Gibmetal 77^talk 01:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 21

Ellisland Farm, Dumfries

• ... that Scottish poet Robert Burns (pictured) built, lived and raised dairy cattle at Ellisland Farm near Dumfries, Scotland, where he also wrote many songs and poems, such as Tam o' Shanter and Auld Lang Syne?

Created by Rosser1954 (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 14:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Transport in Hamburg

• ... that transport in Hamburg comprises an extensive road network, rail system, subway system, airports and maritime services?

Created by Sebastian scha. (talk). Self nom at 12:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Note: the article was moved from my userspace without clearing the page history before. There are entries for March 2009 with no connection to this article. Ty. Sebastian scha. (talk) 12:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there are more interesting hook? The hook could apply to transport in any major city Francium12 (talk) 09:34, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

yes it could, and the subject itself is not really interesting. Sorry Sebastian scha. (talk) 11:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Hospital ships sunk in World War I

• ... that, HMHS Llandovery Castle, one of the hospital ships sunk in World War I, had its life boats shot at by German U-boat U-86?

Created by Esemono (talk). Self nom at 10:35, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that all but 24 of the survivors of Llandovery Castle, one of the hospital ships sunk during the First World War, were gunned down by crewmembers aboard the U-boat SM U-86? —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 18:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Have extensively copyedited and reworked the article so that it complies with WP:SHIPS' guidelines; I believe that my ALT1 is good to go. Cheers, —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 18:35, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Cortisol awakening response

• ... that the stress hormone cortisol increases on average by half in the cortisol awakening response in the half hour after we awake?

Created by LittleHow (talk). Self nom at 10:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see my response here; medical articles should conform to WP:MEDRS, and primary studies on small samples shouldn't be used. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

The above comment concerns the finding that those with Asperger Syndrome lack a cortisol awakening response. The single bullet line of "Those with Asperger syndrome do not have a normal cortisol awakening response" in which this was observed in the article is now removed to remove any issue of inappropriateness. The reference was to research upon 20 individual's with Aspergers syndrome and so not a small sample. It was in a respected science journal, "Absence of a normal Cortisol Awakening Response (CAR) in adolescent males with Asperger Syndrome (AS)". Brosnan M, Turner-Cobb J, Munro-Naan Z, Jessop D. Psychoneuroendocrinology (2009) 34, 1095—1100 doi:10.1016/j.psyneuen.2009.02.011. The cortisol awakening response article is not a medical but a physiological one. WP:MEDRS is mainly concerned to stop statements about fringe medical treatments and concerns "ideal sources".--LittleHow (talk) 23:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Harvard Beats Yale 29-29

• ... that the 1968 match between Yale and Harvard is considered the most famous football game in Ivy League history?

Created by MichaelQSchmidt (talk). Self nom at 08:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

As implied by the the rules, the hook needs a link to the new article. --Allen3 ^talk 09:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT 1 ... that as covered in the Kevin Rafferty documentary Harvard Beats Yale 29-29, the 1968 match between Yale and Harvard is considered the most famous football game in Ivy League history?
  • Alternate hook offered. MichaelQSchmidt (talk) 09:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Germantown Colony and Museum

• ... that the Germantown Colony and Museum near Minden, Louisiana, preserves the remnants of a Utopian religious commune active between 1835 and 1871?

Created by Billy Hathorn (talk). Self nom at 02:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Mise of Amiens, Mise of Lewes

• ... that the 13th-century settlements known as the Mise of Amiens and the Mise of Lewes are the only two such "mises" in English history?

Created by Lampman (talk). Self nom at 00:33, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• There is an immediate grammatical problem in the first article, with the first sentence stating that The Mise[a] of Amiens was a settlement given by King Louis IX of France on 23 January 1264 between King Henry III of England and his rebellious barons. You give something to a party or parties, you don't give something between parties. As a result, the intro is quite difficult to understand. I think you need to restate this to make it more clear what you are trying to say. Gatoclass (talk) 11:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks, please see talk page. Lampman (talk) 02:59, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Rock Harbor Light

• ... that the Rock Harbor Light (pictured), built in 1855 and still standing, was used for only a total of seven years before being permanently decommissioned?

Created by Andrew Jameson (talk). Self nom at 21:54, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Verified after a copyedit. Gatoclass (talk) 12:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Terry Pepper says that the lighthouse was finished in 1856, but your other sources (such as United States Coastguard) say it was first established the year before (the article history section and infobox currently conflict due to this). I'm inclined to believe the other sources over Terry. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 12:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
    • A fair point. I'm inclined to believe Terry because of the additional information and exact dates he provides. I suspect other sources conflate the year construction began (1855, everyone agrees) with the year the light was first lit (1856, according to Terry, but 1855 according to the USCG). Andrew Jameson (talk) 15:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
• Suggest dropping the year of final decommissioning, so it reads "... that the Rock Harbor Light (pictured), built in 1855 and still standing, was used for only a total of eight years before being permanently decommissioned?". Otherwise u force many readers to compute and compare 1855 + 8 vs. 1879, unnecessarily. I think shorter is better and the distinction between being unlit vs. permanently decommissioned is not important. doncram (talk) 18:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Done. Also changed the duration to seven years, as I believe that is the correct number. Gatoclass (talk) 05:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• ? 1856 to 1859 is three years; 1874 to 1879 is five years. Three plus five is eight. What am I missing? Andrew Jameson (talk) 11:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Natural Selection (The Spectacular Spider-Man)

• ... that The Spectacular Spider-Man episode "Natural Selection" was praised for its action and fight sequences by critics?

Created by SuperFlash101 (talk). Self nom at 17:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Changed "it's" to "its" because nobody can ever get that right for some reason. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 17:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks - yeah, I can never remember that '__' The Flash ^{talk} 23:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Feed Jake

• ... that the music video for Pirates of the Mississippi's 1991 single "Feed Jake" was believed by the gay community to have a homosexual theme?

Created by TenPoundHammer (talk). Self nom at 17:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Believed by whom? DS (talk) 00:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Source 2 implies that the gay community believed so. "…and those who watch it in heavy rotation on cable's Country Music Videos [sic] channel may see it differently than do some folks at bars and clubs frequented mostly by gay men and lesbians." Is that enough to change it to "believed by the gay community"? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 12:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you could change the hook to "believed by some" and then footnote the claim in the article to be clear about who "some" are. - Tim1965 (talk) 13:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I changed the hook to "believed by the gay community" per the citation; the article now says the gay community believed so. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 13:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Major League Baseball awards

File:2004 WorldSeries Trophy.jpg

• ... that Major League Baseball presents a variety of awards (Commissioner's Trophy pictured) each season for individual performance, excellence in batting, pitching performance, and fielding prowess?

5x expanded by Killervogel5 (talk). Self nom at 18:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Rijksmonument

• ... that a Rijksmonument is a national monument of the Netherlands, and there are 55,000 of them?

Created by Doncram (talk). Self nom at 16:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Too short. Article marked as a stub. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
• We need a quote in the original Dutch and an English translation. Otherwise, it's fine.--Darius (talk) 02:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  You need to expand the article to at least 1500 bytes of prose (currently 990 bytes), but more serious is that Rijksmonument has a similar meaning in Belgium too, which must be addressed in the article. Materialscientist (talk) 04:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  Comment The Dutch article doesn't mention that the Belgian equivalent is also called a Rijksmonument. Mjroots (talk) 06:35, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  Thanks for comments. Article moved to "Rijksmonument (Netherlands)", expanded to over 1500 chars, and Belgian equivalent mentioned by See also links, no longer marked as stub. I don't understand what is meant by "we need a quote in the original Dutch and an English translation" though: in the article? Here? doncram (talk) 17:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  The quote in the source is "Nederland telt ongeveer 55.000 rijksmonumenten. Al deze rijksmonumenten staan in het monumentenregister." I think that roughly translates as "Netherlands has over 55,000 rijksmonuments. All these stand in the register of them." doncram (talk) 18:12, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Question Can a wikiproject, WP:HSITES get DYK credit for this, instead of just me? Several HSITES members have contributed; it was intended as a joint effort, is in response to a question raised at wt:HSITES. Thanks also to User:Materialscientist and other DYK reviewers here. doncram (talk) 17:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Multiple contributors (people, not wikiprojects) can get credit for a DYK. Just create additional instances of the DYKmake template (above) and list their names. However, before anybody can get credit for this article as a DYK, it will need to be expanded to at least 1500 characters of prose (DYKcheck counts just 1358 characters). --Orlady (talk) 17:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Is DYKcheck an available tool? I am not familiar with it. When counting over 1500 chars in Word, I was excluding pics and other non-text material, but including characters in names and sentence fragments in list of selected Rijksmonuments. Do only complete sentences count? doncram (talk) 18:12, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, found it very easy to apply wp:DYKcheck in its javascript version to apply to one page. Revised article to list the selected monuments in text, rather than as a list per se, now DYKcheck reports 1880 characters. Thanks! doncram (talk) 18:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Lengths and dates check out OK now (congrats on getting DYKcheck to work for you, Doncram). However, odd as it may seem, I can't find an inline citation or a source for the part of the hook that says "a Rijksmonument is a national monument of the Netherlands". The source that is cited for (and supports) the statement that there are 55,000 monuments says they are "at least 50 years old", are "of national importance", and are "protected by the government," but it doesn't say that they are "national monuments." Please make sure the article cites a source for this part of hook fact. "Rijksmonument" is Dutch for "national monument", so this part of the hook is just a nominal translation, and it shouldn't be hard to source it... Also, due to the new unwritten DYK rule of "at least one inline citation per paragraph," please cite a source for the paragraph that lists "Some notable Rijksmonuments." --Orlady (talk) 22:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  I added this ref which mentions, among other things, that "Rijksmonument .. moet.. van nationaal belang.. bezitten" (should be of national importance). The definitions are somewhat loose, even at government sites, and strictly speaking do not say "is a national monument of the Netherlands", but they may be interpreted that way (one trick could be that "Rijksmonument" literally means state monument or national monument, and thus nobody bothers to translate Dutch to Dutch :-). I hesitate to rewrite the hook and article and leave this with the authors and Orlady. Materialscientist (talk) 00:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

  I guess i meant it first of all as the translation. Rijk = state and Monument = monument, and the state involved is the nation. Rijkmonument = national monument. The citation given for the 55,000 also states, under the topic of what is a Rijksmonument that "Een rijksmonument is minstens 50 jaar oud en is door de cultuurhistorische waarde, schoonheid of wetenschappelijke betekenis van nationaal belang." I am guessing that means a Rijksmonument is at least 50 years old and is of cultural or other national importance. So I think the term "national monument" is well enough supported, and I can't see what more I could do here. The same source gives links to pages on "Provinciaal monument", which are obviously monuments designated by provinces. Materialscientist or Mjroots, if you can tighten it up somehow by editing the article or the hook phrase, please do so.

  I am also a bit hard pressed to find specific support that the selected Rijksmonuments are listed on a register. There is Nederlands language article [1] which I think documents some of them (and others supported there could be switched in), but its source link doesn't work for me. I'm out of my depth here, language-wise. doncram (talk) 02:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

"The monument is at least 50 years old and by the cultural and historical value, beauty or scientific significance of national importance" is google translation of "Een rijksmonument is minstens 50 jaar oud en is door de cultuurhistorische waarde, schoonheid of wetenschappelijke betekenis van nationaal belang." Lvklock (talk) 03:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Could change "a Rijksmonument is a national monument of the Netherlands". to "a Rijksmonument is a monument of national importance in the Netherlands".Lvklock (talk) 03:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The Play of the Weather (Play)

• ... that the medieval English play The Play of the Weather can be seen as an allegory of the Catholic playwright John Heywood hoping for religious tolerance after the Reformation?

Created by Minirenaissance (talk). Nominated by WikiDan61 (talk) at 14:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Changed Reformation link to go to English Reformation. Otherwise, Looks good; AGF on the offline reference. — Jake Wartenberg 00:34, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Ma-ubin

• ... that an ancient pagoda on the Toe River in Ma-ubin, Burma, fell in 2002 due to river erosion and had to be rebuilt?

5x expanded by Dr. Blofeld (talk). Self nom at 10:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Obesity in the Pacific

• ... that Obesity in the Pacific has the seven most obese nations and associated states?

Created by OOODDD (talk) expanded by Saalstin (talk) 09:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Far short of the 1500 size minimum. Lists do not count. \ Backslash Forwardslash / (talk) 09:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Expanded to (creep) over the 1500. Suggested hook: ... that the seven most obese nations in the world are all located in the Pacific? --Saalstin (talk) 21:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

  Length (1512b), date, refs seem Ok. Original hook is poor, ALT1 better. Materialscientist (talk) 09:46, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Lactarius indigo

• ... that the indigo milkcap (pictured) is one of 13 edible Lactarius mushrooms sold in the rural markets of Yunnan, China?

Created by Sasata (talk). Self nom at 08:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• , source, date, length verified. Thank you for creating the fascinating article. I think anything related its color (e.g. blue latex) is more interesting to me than the fact that the mushroom in being sold in China. Could you give alternative hooks? --Caspian blue 21:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

You would say that, considering your name :) How about something nice and short: Sasata (talk) 21:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT: ... that the edible mushroom Lactarius indigo (pictured) makes blue milk?

ALT2 ... that the latex that emanates when the indigo milkcap (pictured) is cut is indigo blue, but slowly turns green upon exposure to air?" --Aranae (talk) 21:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that injuring Lactarius indigo (pictured) will make it bleed a blue milk that slowly turns green? Sasata (talk) 22:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

You're right. I've been reviewing two DYK hooks related to something blue yesterday and today! I think the alt is strong and nice. So yes, it is now good to go. --Caspian blue 22:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Fernando Núñez de Lara

• ... that the Castilian nobleman Fernando Núñez de Lara became a Knight Hospitaller on his deathbed in exile in Marrakesh?

Created by Srnec (talk). Self nom at 04:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

1st Special Squadron

• ... that the 1st Special Squadron of the Imperial Japanese Navy was tasked with defending Australia and New Zealand during World War I?

Created by Esemono (talk). Self nom at 04:45, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Hijron Ka Khanqah

• ... that Hijron Ka Khanqah (pictured) is a pre-Mughal period monument of the 15th century where 49 Hijras (eunuchs) of Delhi were buried during the Lodi dynasty's reign?

Created/expanded by Nvvchar (talk). Self nom at 04:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Fact is not immediately cited (citation comes at end of paragraph). Citations are not reliable (one citation is a blog, not allowed under WP:RS and the other citation does not verify the fact that there are, indeed, 49 eunuchs buried at the site. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks. I will remove the blog reference and modify the hook. I verified the fact of 49 tombs by personal visit to the monument. Since only blog reference makes a mention of this number, I will change it and also remove text taken from the blog by end of the day.--Nvvchar (talk) 02:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Changes carried out as above deleting the blog references and connected text, since I could not locate any acceptable references (other than the blogs) giving the number of tombs. Alt Hook suggested below. I hope it meets the reviewer's observations. Thanks--Nvvchar (talk) 10:14, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Alt 1... that Hijron Ka Khanqah (pictured) is a pre-Mughal period monument of the fifteenth century where some Hijras (eunuchs) of Delhi were buried during the Lodi dynasty's reign?

• Looks fine now. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 11:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks.--Nvvchar (talk) 01:38, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Interactions (The Spectacular Spider-Man)

• ... that The Spectacular Spider-Man episode "Interactions" was the highest rated program for the 10:30 a.m. timeslot of the 2007–2008 season on The CW?

5x expanded by SuperFlash101 (talk). Self nom at 03:01, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 20

Giveamanakick

• ... that Giveamanakick's live performances involved gas masks and streamers and one of their albums was said to be "something akin to being battered round the head with a plank of wood for half an hour"?

Created by Candlewicke (talk). Self nom at 07:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Waviness

• ... that the waviness of bearing balls and bearing races surfaces is the main reason for bearing noise and vibrations?

Created by Wizard191 (talk). Self nom at 17:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Act of God (film)

• ... that Act of God is a Canadian documentary film that investigates the metaphysical effects of being struck by lightning?

5x expanded by Bruce1ee (talk). Self nom at 14:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Sigurd Eysteinsson

• ... that Viking warlord Sigurd Eysteinsson was killed by the decapitated head of his enemy?

5x expanded by DrKiernan (talk). Self nom at 08:13, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Date and refs are fine, expansion scrapes over the line, and the hook is excellent. Long Shrift (talk) 11:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

A head cannot be decapitated (unless you're Zaphod Beeblebrox). A body can be decapitated; a head can be severed. DS (talk) 03:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree, "Sigurd was killed by the severed head of his enemy" is better. Lithoderm 14:27, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

99 Fables

• ... that 99 Fables, a posthumously published collection by William March, "emphasizes the platitudes of life by the platitudinous nature of his fables?"

Created by Drmies (talk). Self nom at 04:48, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• I modified the hook. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Passes all criteria. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Celebration of Mexican political anniversaries in 2010

• ... that Mexico celebrates its Bicentennial of Independence and Centennial of the Mexico Revolution in 2010?

Created by Thelmadatter (talk). Self nom at 01:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Laugh, Laugh

• ... that rock group The Beau Brummels sang "Laugh, Laugh" on a 1965 episode of The Flintstones as The Beau Brummelstones?

Created by Gongshow (talk). Self nom at 00:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Passes all criteria, and an interesting amusing hook to boot! WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:05, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Kevin Lewis (American football)

• ... that despite leading the New York Giants in tackles in 2004, Kevin Lewis was released before 2005?

• ALT1:... that in his first career start, Kevin Lewis recorded his first career sack?

5x expanded by Giants27 (talk). Self nom at 23:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Agaricus benesii

• ... that Agaricus californicus and Agaricus xanthodermus can be distinguished by by Agaricus benesii by their thickened annulus at the margin, a phenolic odor, and a yellowing bruise?

Created by ImperatorExercitus (talk). Self nom at 21:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• I don't understand that hook and I can't guess what was intended, even if I correct the "by by" typo and try to disambiguate phenolic. Art LaPella (talk) 00:44, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Whoops, sorry about that. How's this? Alt 1 "... that, despite many similarities, that Agaricus californicus and Agaricus xanthodermus can be distinguished from Agaricus benesii by their thickened annulus at the margin, a phenolic odor, and a yellowing bruise?" If the hook is now too long, I could cut two of the reasons... Cheers, I'^mperator 14:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• How about Alt 2 "... that the agaric mushroom species Agaricus benesii is found under the pines of Monterey Cypress trees and bruises pinkish-red when injured?" --Aranae (talk) 18:29, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Should remove "puffball" because Agaricus species are agarics, not puffballs. Sasata (talk) 18:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Fixed. Cheers, I'^mperator 18:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Étienne Dinet

• ... that the French orientalist painter Étienne Dinet (pictured) was so fascinated by Arab culture that he converted to Islam?

Created by Petropoxy (Lithoderm Proxy) (talk). Self nom at 21:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Acharius Medal

• ... that although the Acharius Medal is now awarded for lifetime achievement in lichenology, the medal's original purpose has been lost?

created and nominated by DragonflySixtyseven (talk) 20:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Too short at 912 characters, expand to at least 1500. orangefreak³³ 21:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Victor Cook

• ... that when designing The Spectacular Spider-Man, Victor Cook looked at the style of Hellboy: Blood and Iron, which he directed, for inspiration?

Created by SuperFlash101 (talk). Self nom at 20:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

AltaRock Energy

• ... that AltaRock Energy's demonstration project for generating renewable energy through geothermal power may cause earthquakes in California?

• alt... that AltaRock Energy's renewable energy project to extract geothermal power from deep bedrock may cause earthquakes in California? —mattisse (Talk) 19:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Created by Mattisse (talk). Self nom at 19:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Date, length, refs seem Ok, but the hook is incorrect, and "cause" should be "increase the number of" (reminds me cartoon Ice Age, when the proto-squirrel had "caused" split up of continents :-)) Materialscientist (talk) 05:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Done! See below:

• alt ... that AltaRock Energy's demonstration project for generating renewable energy through geothermal power may increase the number of earthquakes in California? —mattisse (Talk) 15:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  Ok with me now. Materialscientist (talk) 23:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Alexander Gordon Lyle

• ... that Alexander Gordon Lyle is one of only two dental officers ever to receive the United States' highest military decoration, the Medal of Honor?

Created by Kumioko (talk). Self nom at 17:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Currently too short at 1278 characters, the minimum is 1500. Block quotes are not included for prose size, so the citation text is not being included in this count. orangefreak³³ 18:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done I added some more text so it should be long enough now. --Kumioko (talk) 12:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Dallas Municipal Building

Lee Harvey Oswald, the instant he was shot point-blank by Jack Ruby in the Dallas Municipal Building

• ... that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed in the basement of the Dallas Municipal Building?

Created by Dfwcre8tive (talk). Self nom at 16:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Too old to be considered a new article, and expansion is only 2217/530 = 4.2x. Continue expanding. orangefreak³³ 17:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

2nd Arizona Territorial Legislature

• ... that five months after the 2nd Arizona Territorial Legislature created Pah-Ute County most of the county's land was given to Nevada?

Created by Allen3 (talk). Self nom at 15:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Supermarine Spitfire survivors

• ... that in the List of Supermarine Spitfire survivors the RAF Memorial Flight Spitfire Mk IIa P7350 is the only surviving Spitfire of the Battle of Britain still flying?

Created by Thruxton (talk). Self nom at 13:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Prose length only 632 characters, much too short. Bulleted text does not count for prose length as we consider it, so de-bulleting will absolutely push this over the 1500 character minumum. orangefreak³³ 17:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done Thruxton (talk) 18:16, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT1 - ... that out of the remaining Supermarine Spitfires, the RAF Memorial Flight Mk IIa P7350 is the only Battle of Britain survivor that is still flying? —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 23:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

As I noted on your talk page, your edit has been reverted, and other editors of the page have objected to the debulleting. I suggest attempting to reach a consensus on the talk page. orangefreak³³ 15:38, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

As the editor that objected to the debulleting can I ask that you link to the policy/guideline on this as I occasionaly submit DYK noms myself. The article could be debulleted to get it through DYK with the formatting reinstated later but I think that would be condidered 'gaming the system'. I should note that this article is a recent copy/paste WP:SPLIT from Supermarine Spitfire and very little new text has been added. Notwithstanding, I would like to see it make DYK using WP:COMMONSENSE. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 23:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Boga (fish)

• ... that the Boga is also known as the Snit in Jamaica and as the Bonnetmouth in the Bahamas?

Created by Ryan shell (talk). Self nom at 13:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• DYKcheck says that it is not long enough yet. It's currently at 1487 so 13 characters would do it - rules are stupid! The hook checks out fine though so if it is expanded a tiny bit it will pass. Smartse (talk) 22:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done Ryan shell (talk) 16:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Torbjørn Mork, Karl Evang

• ... that Karl Evang and Torbjørn Mork, who consecutively headed the Norwegian Directorate for Health between 1938 and 1992, were both active members of the Labour Party?

Created by Geschichte (talk). Self nom at 10:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Jack Tenney

• ... that in addition to leading a committee which investigated alleged communists, California State Senator Jack Tenney composed the popular song "Mexicali Rose"?

Created by Wehwalt (talk). Self nom at 09:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hitchcon

• ... that Hitchcon, a convention celebrating the 30th anniversary of the publication of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, will feature a live commentary on Twitter given by Marvin the Paranoid Android?

Created by ISD (talk). Self nom at 08:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Cabot's Pueblo Museum

• ... that Cabot's Pueblo Museum in Desert Hot Springs, California, was originally a gigantic, Hopi-styled pueblo built atop two aquifers separated by the San Andreas Fault resulting in both hot and cold water?

Created by PMDrive1061 (talk). Self nom at 07:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names

• ... that the Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names determined 32,138 toponyms of Poland inbetween 1946 and 1950?

Created by HerkusMonte (talk). Self nom at 07:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Alfred Proksch

• ... that Alfred Proksch won two gold medals at the 2009 World's Masters Championships because he was the only competitor in the 100+ age bracket for discus and shot put?

Created by Canadian Paul (talk). Self nom at 06:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Date, length, facts, refs Ok. Suggest borrowing a table of his results from the German page - interesting progression. There could be many alternatives for the hook. For example ALT1 ... that Alfred Proksch is winning international athletics competitions for 83 years? (maybe not winning but alike) Materialscientist (talk) 09:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Dipak Patel (politician)

• ... that Dipak Patel once called Zambian president Levy Mwanawasa a "cabbage" and accused him of rigging his election, yet still went on to serve as his Minister of Commerce?

Created by CaliforniaAliBaba (talk). Self nom at 06:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Roy Sullivan

• ... that in his lifetime, Roy Sullivan was struck by lightning seven times, but died from a gunshot?

5x expanded by Materialscientist (talk). Self nom at 05:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment: feel free to delete that flashy image. Changing refresh rate or freeze it I can. Materialscientist (talk) 07:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• According to DYKcheck it has not been 5x expanded in the last ten days. Is there anything else that could be added? Smartse (talk) 22:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

  (i) DYKcheck is accurate on a single page, but often fails on the article history. I apply it to individual pages before and after expansion and divide myself. (ii) The old text was bulleted (and sourced to non-RS) and I suppose shouldn't count. (iii) Expanding I can, but. I tried to keep only reliable info on the subject. Too much hype about him. Materialscientist (talk) 22:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Must be an issue with reverts or something, but checking different revision sizes gives 5945/829 = 7.2x expansion since the August 11th version. Refs also check out, nice expansion on the different strikes! orangefreak³³ 22:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

linked to Lightning strike in the hook. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Henri-Georges Clouzot

• ... that Henri-Georges Clouzot received acclaim for his films The Wages of Fear and Les Diaboliques?

• ALT1:... that director Henri-Georges Clouzot's wife Véra Clouzot starred in three of his feature films?
• ALT2:... that director Henri-Georges Clouzot drugged actress Brigitte Bardot to make her drool?

5x expanded by Andrzejbanas (talk). Self nom at 05:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Enfants

• ... that "Enfants (Chants)", by microhouse producer Ricardo Villalobos, incorporates "no development over its seventeen minute length"?

Created by M.nelson (talk). Self nom at 05:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Tohjiro

• ... that Chisho Itoh, the winner of the 1988 Yokohama Film Festival Best New Director Award, went on to a stellar career as the hardcore Japanese adult video director Tohjiro?

Created by Cherryblossom1982 (talk). Self nom at 00:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 19

Krasiczyn Palace

• ...that Krasiczyn Palace is one of the most beautiful Renaissance structures of Poland? Article expanded and nominated by user Tymek (talk) 05:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Soviet cruiser Kaganovich

• ... that the Soviet cruiser Kaganovich was renamed Petropavlovsk on 3 August 1957 after Lazar Kaganovich was purged from the government after an unsuccessful coup against Nikita Khrushchev that same year?

Created by Sturmvogel 66 (talk). Self nom at 23:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT1 - ... during her 16 years of active service, the Soviet cruiser Kaganovich was renamed twice to avoid being associated with disgraced party members? —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 05:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Monticello, California

• ... that the town of Monticello, California, is at the bottom of Lake Berryessa?

• ALT1:... that Dorothea Lange and Pirkle Jones were commissioned to take photographs of Monticello, California, as it was being prepared for destruction?

Created by Binksternet (talk). Self nom at 17:16, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Firearms of Japan

• ... that the firearms of Japan (pictured) go back to the 13th century, but were abandoned for 200 years during Japan's Seclusion period?

Created by PHG (talk). Self nom at 20:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Ronnie Tod

• ... that Brigadier Ronnie Tod was awarded the freedom of Athens by Archbishop Damaskinos in 1944?

Created by AustralianRupert (talk), David Underdown (talk). Self nom at 15:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• It says "was awarded the freedom of Athens by". How does one award a city's freedom to someone? Is something missing from the hook? Never mind: I'm not familiar with that kind of terminology. I took the liberty of adapting the hook to lose the "Athens" repetition. Dahn (talk) 21:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Elizabeth Fort

• ... that, though ostensibly built to defend the city, the citizens of Cork pulled down Elizabeth Fort within two years of its first construction – for fear that it would be used against them by James I?

Created by Guliolopez (talk). Self nom at 13:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Caroline Wyatt

• ... that BBC defence correspondent Caroline Wyatt was born in Australia and adopted by a British diplomat?

Created by Qwfp (talk). Self nom at 12:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• 1509 characters! It certainly didn't look it...And a DYK that is actually interesting Francium12 (talk) 09:49, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Sabalan, Safad

• ... that some people believe the depopulated Palestinian Arab village of Sabalan referred to Zebulun, the son of Jacob?

Created by Dr. Blofeld (talk) and Al Ameer son (talk) . Self nom at 11:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• The article says "Some believe Sabalan is supposed to be Zebulun, the son of Jacob, while others claim he was a da'is ("missionary") who joined the Druze religion". To me this is not a DYK fact. Materialscientist (talk) 05:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

History of Oak Park and River Forest High School

• ... that the Ernest Hemingway short story The Killers was a continuation of a short story which Hemingway published in his high school literary magazine?

Created by LonelyBeacon (talk). Self nom at 04:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Sorry, but this article is a split from Oak Park and River Forest High School without 5x expansion. Please see DYK rules and rule F8 of Additional rules. --Bruce1ee^talk 05:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Providence Grays managers

• ... that brothers George Wright (pictured) and Harry Wright both managed the Providence Grays National League baseball team?

Created by Rlendog (talk). Self nom at 01:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

•   List of Providence Grays managers – Rlendog (give) (tag)

DUST 514

• ... that the events that take place in the upcoming MMORPG DUST 514 will affect the universe of EVE Online?

Created by Enndr (talk). Nominated by MuZemike (talk) at 23:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   DUST 514 – Enndr (give) (tag)
•   Nom credit: MuZemike (give)

• Note – article is currently nominated for deletion (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DUST 514), so I understand that this will be placed on hold pending the AFD outcome. MuZemike 23:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Could you give it some kind of real-world connection? DS (talk) 00:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• It was like this when sent to AFD, and currently it is like this after my cleanup/"rescue attempt". MuZemike 02:56, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Can you give the hook some kind of real-world connection? Otherwise it's just "DYK that (this one fiction) connects to (this other fiction)" - and such details in fiction are typically the result of arbitrary whim. DS (talk) 16:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT 1 ... that users in the upcoming MMORPG DUST 514 will be able to interact with users from another game EVE Online through mercenary assistance? MuZemike 19:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

David Orme-Johnson

• ... that David Orme-Johnson wanted the U.S. Defense Department to hire 10,000 people to perform Transcendental Meditation continuously in order to improve society?

Created by Will Beback (talk). Self nom at 21:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   David Orme-Johnson – Will Beback (give) (tag)

Per Voksø, Sverre Munck

• ... that Per Voksø resigned as editor-in-chief of Morgenposten shortly after Sverre Munck bought the newspaper?

Per Voksø is new, Sverre Munck was expanded. Geschichte (talk). Self nom at 21:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Per Voksø – Geschichte (give) (tag)
•   Sverre Munck – Geschichte (give) (tag)

Map of Rensselaerswyck

• ... that the Map of Rensselaerswyck shows the extent of the Manor of Rensselaerswyck, the only successful Dutch patroonship, which extended from Coeymans to the mouth of the Mohawk River in New York?

Created by Wadester16 (talk). Self nom at 21:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Map of Rensselaerswyck – Wadester16 (give) (tag)

• ALT 1: ... that the Map of Rensselaerswyck shows that Kiliaen van Rensselaer originally named the upstate Hudson River tributaries after the women in his life? wadester16 17:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center

• ... that the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center is one of only four health centers in the United States with seven professional colleges?

Created by Smb1138 (talk). Self nom at 20:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center – Smb1138 (give) (tag)

Nicolae Constantin Batzaria

• ... that the Aromanian Nicolae Constantin Batzaria was a fairy tale collector, a member of the Young Turks, an Ottoman government minister, and one of Romania's best-known creators of comic strips?

Created by Dahn (talk). Self nom at 20:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Nicolae Constantin Batzaria – Dahn (give) (tag)

• ALT 1: ... that fairy tale collector Nicolae Constantin Batzaria was an Aromanian representative among the Young Turks, an Ottoman government minister, and one of Romania's best-known creators of comic strips? Dahn (talk) 23:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

HMS Fifi

• ... that HMS Fifi, the first German warship captured and added to the Royal Navy, was named to mean 'tweet-tweet' in French?

Created by Benea (talk). Self nom at 19:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   HMS Fifi – Benea (give) (tag)

• Good to go. Shimgray | talk | 17:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Blue cake

• ... that blue cake, a flaky pastry from the Bernese Oberland, Switzerland, is not blue?

Created by Sandstein (talk). Self nom at 17:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Blue cake – Sandstein (give) (tag)

• , the size is only 1227 bytes, please keep typing. And would you fix the reference template to show the source is written in German? If there is any available photo, that would be great.--Caspian blue 18:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks; the length (I hope) and ref should be fixed now. I'll take a photo next time I'm in the area...  Sandstein  20:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• The size, date, length and source are confirmed. I tuned up the hook a little, since the place could be unfamiliar to many people, and the hook needs to be more descriptive. Would you also add the information on the color in the intro?--Caspian blue 13:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

You mean adding it to the lead of the article? Can be done, though I am not sure what you mean by the hook needing to be more descriptive. The hook as you changed it looks fine to me.  Sandstein  19:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Ah, that comment regarding the hook needs to be descriptive was just my explanation for altering your hook because some people do not like fiddling their submitted hook without notification. So well, anyway, it is good to go now, so .--Caspian blue 22:59, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I Still Like Bologna

• ... that country music singer Alan Jackson still likes bologna?

Created by TenPoundHammer (talk). Self nom at 16:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   I Still Like Bologna – TenPoundHammer (give) (tag)

• Intriguing hook, but one issue: the Jackson quote at the end of the "Content" section does not appear to be in the cited Rolling Stone reference. --Bruce1ee^talk 06:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Should be fixed now. Correct reference was there, but using the refname of a previous ref, meaning the previous one was showing instead. Length, date, and cite all seem fine. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 06:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Unsinkable Seven

• ... that Joginder Singh and Nick Nowicki were twice members of a group nicknamed the Unsinkable Seven after managing to be among the seven survivors of the East African Safari Rally in 1963 and 1968?

Created by Donnie Park (talk). Self nom at 14:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Unsinkable Seven – Donnie Park (give) (tag)

I edited the hook. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• They weren't nicknamed the "Unsinkable Seven" though, they were twice members of groups nicknamed the "Unsinkable Seven".Long Shrift (talk) 22:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I have made changes to accomodate that they have been given that nickname twice, plus adding another one below

• ALT2... that at the 1963 and 1968 East African Safari Rally, only 8% (which is the lowest ever rate) of those who started made it to the finish line, and were awarded the nickname Unsinkable Seven? Created by Donnie Park (talk). Self nom

• "Joginder Singh and Nick Nowicki was". Among other changes, I would normally change "was" to "were" without comment in both versions, but someone made the opposite change. Art LaPella (talk) 02:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• changed was→were as advised. Donnie Park (talk) 09:59, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• I did other copyediting as requested. Art LaPella (talk) 13:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Kuisi

• ... that kuisis are Native American flutes crafted in distinct male and female pairs, to be played together. Kuisis are an indigenous element throughout the history of Colombian music.

Created by Harry W1234 (talk). Self nom at 06:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Kuisi – Harry W1234 (give) (tag)

• 840 character hook. Art LaPella (talk) 06:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Significantly reduced now. I wasn't aware of the strict limit on hooks, having just created my first page. Harry W1234 (talk) 07:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Just look at the Main Page and try to create a similar hook. Allow me to suggest this:

... that kuisis are Native American flutes crafted in distinct male and female pairs, but meant to be played together?

You need to put a <ref></ref> tag directly on the sentences that contain these facts though. Regards SoWhy 07:37, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I've revised the referencing in most of the sections to link points to specific sources, in particular the section on construction. I've added a few more examples and references in the Modern use section. Harry W1234 (talk) 18:17, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I tweaked the new hook... ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

How about something more playful and less informative?

• ALT2 ... that kuisis come in male/female pairs made of cactus, feathers, beeswax, and charcoal?

What I was originally trying to stress in the hook, before editing it for length, was the unique nature of the instrument, it's construction in male/female pairs, and also its historical significance in the history of Colombian music -- as a specifically indigenous element, since fused with European and African influences, creating distinctive modern Colombian music. Maybe far too much for a hook, but playful wasn't the tone I intended.Harry W1234 (talk) 18:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The reader has to click through to find out that they're flutes. Just a thought... Melchoir (talk) 18:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Flute, as the species of woodwind instrument, should remain so that the hook indicates the broad subject area(s) to readers and the article meets those expectations.Harry W1234 (talk) 18:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

One key expectation I think a reader might have would be illustrations of construction and use, both traditional and modern. However, given the intricacies of a hook, I don't want to risk compromising the article without being sure where images from the source material might be used fairly and in line with wiki-policies. The wiki-guidelines are mammoth.Harry W1234 (talk) 19:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually my point is that, IMO, a hook doesn't always need to indicate the broad subject area to readers. That's the job of the lead section of the article. The hook is there to entice readers to visit the article. Melchoir (talk) 20:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Taschereau Bridge, Galipeault Bridge

• ... that Taschereau Bridge and Galipeault Bridge, near Montreal, were both widened in a bid to appease Île Perrot merchants who were worried that the newly-built Île aux Tourtes Bridge would drive away their customers?

Created by Blanchardb (talk). Self nom at 00:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Taschereau Bridge – Blanchardb (give) (tag)
•   Galipeault Bridge – Blanchardb (give) (tag)

• Note: This unusual DYK aims for two articles at once, and although the hook applies equally to both articles, the one on Galipeault is not eligible for DYK. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 02:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

If it is not eligible, it can be linked but will not appear in bold. Hook changed accordingly. orangefreak³³ 20:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Please can you squeeze out another 23 bytes of prose, Blanchardb?—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 09:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Done. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 13:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

His Family

• ... that His Family received the first Pulitzer Prize for the Novel in 1918?

ALT1 ... that Ernest Poole's book His Family received the first Pulitzer Prize for the Novel in 1918?

5x expanded by Jwrosenzweig (talk). Self nom at 05:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   His Family – Jwrosenzweig (give) (tag)

• The only source in the whole article is a primary one (the Pulitzer homepage). There should really be some secondary sources. Regards SoWhy 07:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• I agree--I just don't have any that I know of. I'll see what I can find--what were you hoping for? Jwrosenzweig (talk) 08:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Shouldn't be too hard too find. Google News, Google Scholar and Google Books have hundreds of hits for that book and those sources are usually reliable ones. This book hit for example sounds like a good source to include. Regards SoWhy 08:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• I appreciate very much the links you provide...I guess I've been away too long to understand exactly what needs to be done with it. The particular book you pointed out definitely notes the existence of His Family, but its description seems very short--it calls the novel simply "an immigrant's story" (which, incidentally, it isn't...don't know who they asked, but they didn't read the book, which is the story of a New York family whose patriarch is descended from multiple generations of New Englanders). Is it customary to quote an excerpt of such a source in the article? I've added two quotations from articles written at the time of the book's publication--one from the Oakland Tribune in their actual review, and one from the NYT in their December round-up of the year's notable fiction. I'll look for more in the morning, and I'll try to find a secondary source (though probably not the one you provided--I don't mean to be ungrateful at all, but as noted, their description of the novel isn't accurate) as you've suggested. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 09:03, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Actually, I added that particular source to replace the primary source about winning the Pulitzer, not for the content. Accepting the offline refs AGF, everything else is fine. I also rewrote the hook slightly (advise using ALT1). Regards SoWhy 09:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for the help--it's very much appreciated. I'll keep trying to improve the article regardless. The offline refs are through a password database I had access to but couldn't post a link to--if I can find them via Google's archive I'll change them to provide a link--thanks for the AGF! And I like the new hook--the only reason I was hesitant to put Ernest in the hook is that his article is a little basic right now: couldn't remember if that was a DYK concern. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 09:15, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• You are most welcome. Don't hesitate to ask me directly if I can be of further assistance. As for the hook, the state of other articles is irrelevant to DYK. The DYK article needs to meet the requirements, not all linked from the hook. But if you are interested in the subject, you could consider expanding that article next for DYK. :-) Regards SoWhy 09:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Harry Patch (In Memory Of)

• ... that the Radiohead song "Harry Patch (In Memory Of)" is a tribute to Harry Patch, the last surviving soldier to have fought in the trenches of the First World War?

Created by Brandt Luke Zorn (talk). Self nom at 06:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT 1 ... that all proceeds from the 2009 Radiohead song "Harry Patch (In Memory Of)", a tribute to the last surviving soldier to have fought in the trenches of the First World War, were donated to The Royal British Legion? --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 01:54, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 18

Rita Inos

• ... that Rita Inos, a Doctor of Education, was the first female candidate for Lieutenant Governor of the Northern Mariana Islands?

Created by Scanlan (talk). Self nom at 15:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Soviet cruiser Molotov

Soviet cruiser Molotov in 1942

• ... that the Kirov-class cruiser Molotov (pictured), named after politician and diplomat Vyacheslav Molotov, was the first Soviet ship to carry a radar?

• Comment: footnotes pending.--PFHLai (talk) 13:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Cites added. Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 23:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for putting in the refs so quickly. --PFHLai (talk) 03:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Created by Sturmvogel 66 (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 13:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Length, dates, fact checked. Don't have access to cited ref, but cross checked the fact by Russian cites. Materialscientist (talk) 06:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Hurricane Bill (2009)

• ... that in 2009, a British rower attempting to break the record for the quickest solo crossing of the Atlantic Ocean abandoned his boat due to the approach of Hurricane Bill?

Created by Juliancolton (talk). Nominated by Dylan620 (talk) at 19:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Wouldn't Hurricaine Bill be better suited for ITN?---Balloonman ^{NO! I'm Spartacus!} 19:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Actually this storm is an unlikely ITN candidate. Storms usually make ITN due to significant numbers of deaths or wide scale property damage. Current forecasts[2] suggest Bermuda will only see tropical storm force winds and land fall not occurring till the Canadian Maritimes as the storm is weakening to below hurricane force. With this forecasts there appears to be a low probability of enough disruption to justify an ITN entry. --Allen3 ^talk 19:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• , though I prefer a slightly adapted hook (see below). NW (Talk) 00:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that a British rower attempting to break the record for the quickest solo crossing of the Atlantic Ocean abandoned his boat due to the approach of Hurricane Bill (2009)?

• Actually, per Wikipedia:Did you know/Additional rules#Additional article link rules, piping would be better with this hook. However, I would like to suggest an alt hook with a picture of Bill:

• ALT2:... that in 2009, a British rower attempting to break the record for the quickest solo crossing of the Atlantic Ocean abandoned his boat due to the approach of Hurricane Bill (pictured)? --Dylan620 (contribs, logs)^{help us!} 14:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Parabolic loudspeaker

• ... that one of the public address applications of parabolic loudspeakers is to project sound waves to a point 500 feet (150 m) away?

• Comment: This article is going to look wacky on Shubinator's DYK check, but I believe it is a valid entry. An article called Holophones was created on August 14 by an Italian sound artist, and instead of going through the deletion process due to the subject's questionable notability and clear conflict of interest, I moved his article to Parabolic loudspeaker on August 18 and expanded it from 489 characters of the original article main text trimmed of his peacock words to 4416 characters of main text, a 9x expansion. In retrospect, I should have just created an article new, incorporating the kernel of his contribution, and AFD'd his article. o_O Binksternet (talk) 16:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

5x expanded by Binksternet (talk). Self nom at 16:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• But a similar argument could be made in favor of any hook to which rule F2 applies. So that is an argument for eliminating F2 for everyone, not for making an exception. Art LaPella (talk) 01:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  I don't understand the logic here. Obviously trimming is off rules, and Binksternet didn't expand it 5x, but if to include the author (CRMMusic) then the nomination seems valid. Materialscientist (talk) 10:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• If the original author is included then I submitted the article to DYK too late. August 14 was below the fold when I came here with the nomination.  :( The original text was 1226 bytes while the current text is 4402, only 3.59x expansion. I'll see if I can bring more text to the page and make this a valid entry. Binksternet (talk) 16:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Dickerman Park

• ... that since being dedicated for "park and parkway" purposes in 1909, Dickerman Park in Saint Paul, Minnesota, has been primarily used for parking lots and front yards of businesses?

Created by Eóin (talk). Self nom at 22:02, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Rafiq al-Tamimi

• ... that despite working for the Ottoman administration, Rafiq al-Tamimi help establish al-Fatat, an anti-Ottoman Arab nationalist movement?

Created by Al Ameer son (talk) 06:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Rafiq al-Tamimi – Al Ameer son (give) (tag)

Spanish Louie

• ... that the death of John Lewis (better known as "Spanish Louie") was the first recorded use of a drive by shooting as a means of gangland execution in New York City?

Created by 72.74.197.243 (talk). Nominated by MSGJ (talk) at 11:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Spanish Louie – 72.74.197.243 (give) (tag)
•   Nom credit: MSGJ (give)

Game pie

• ... that William Hutton, François Pierre La Varenne and Benjamin Disraeli wrote about game pie, and Josiah Wedgwood made dishes to cook them without a crust during a period of wheat shortages?

Created/expanded by ChildofMidnight (talk), Aymatth2 (talk). Self nom at 05:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Game pie – ChildofMidnight (give) (tag)
•   Game pie – Aymatth2 (give) (tag)

• Sorry, a big {{citation needed}} here, as this looks like you've synthesised completely unrelated facts (wheat shortages, and pies being made without top crusts). English pies generally don't have a top crust - see Shepherd's pie, Custard tart, Fish pie... - it's nothing to do with wheat shortages. – iridescent 14:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I added some citations to the bit in question. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:03, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• The article was nominated a bit fast - still work in progress. There is a huge variety of English pies, some with a shell and no top crust, some with no shell but a top crust as in the picture to the right, and some completely enclosed, such as the classic pork pie. The game pie has evolved from a stew baked in a coffin with a lid, with the tough pastry usually discarded, to a hot pie in an edible shell with a lid, to a cold game-in-aspic pie, to the modern game pie typically served hot with no shell but a lid. The article will illustrate this. Again - work in progress. The connection between wheat shortage and pies with no lids is completely authentic, described in the life of Beau Brummel. See [3]: "The scarcity two years after Brummel's retirement, viz in 1800, was so great that consumption of flour for pastry was forbidden in the Royal Household, rice being used instead. The distillers left off malting ... and Wedgwood made dishes to represent piecrust."

I hereby grant you another 24 hours to finish the article. Good luck. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Think I will leave it. A lot could be added, particularly on other countries and cooking methods, but this version seems reasonably coherent. A rich subject. Aymatth2 (talk) 15:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Alt. Hook ... that William Hutton, François Pierre La Varenne and Benjamin Disraeli wrote about game pie, and Josiah Wedgwood made cooking dishes for it?

Georgia Cottage

• ... that Georgia Cottage, an 1840s house in Mobile, Alabama, was the home of Augusta Jane Evans, the first female author in the United States to earn more than $100,000 for her literary work?

Created by Altairisfar (talk). Self nom at 03:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Georgia Cottage – Altairisfar (give) (tag)

Postman's Park

• ... that the practice of stacking dead bodies and covering them with soil instead of digging graves has left Postman's Park, a former burial ground in the City of London, elevated above street level?

5x expanded by Iridescent (talk). Self nom at 23:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Postman's Park – Iridescent (give) (tag)

• "instead of digging graves" and "former graveyard" don't match. If no graves have been dug, it's not a graveyard. Suggest "former burial grounds" or sth like that. --76.64.78.148 (talk) 00:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Call it "burial ground" if you prefer - in this context (pre-Burials Act 1851 England) the two are synonymous, but if it makes things clearer to the reader it's not a problem. – iridescent 00:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Or "cemetery". --76.64.78.148 (talk) 02:11, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
      • It is expressly not a cemetery. See Cemetery#Graveyards replaced by cemeteries. – iridescent 13:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
    • If you want an even more little-known fact about the Park, read the entry for the Minotaur in Philip Ward-Jackson's Public sculpture of the city of London (ISBN 9780853239772), where you'll find the fact that the statue was intended to be surrounded by a maze, in turf, which never actually materialized. You'll also find some more precise dates there. If you are really good, you'll find the two January 1973 pencil drawings of the nonexistent turf maze, done by Ayrton, in the collection of the Corporation of London. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 03:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
      • I'm aware - Ward-Jackson was the source I was using here - but I don't think the maze is significant enough to warrant mentioning. As I read Ward-Jackson, the only source for the "maze" story is a note in the Bruton Gallery's catalogue at the time of the statue's sale - the only thing mentioned in the planning application itself was "to purchase and install the Minotaur sculpture", with no mention of any maze. Given the cramped nature of the park, I can't believe the maze idea was ever seriously considered, and I suspect it's a misunderstanding on the gallery's part. – iridescent 13:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
        • Whether others considered it or not, Ayrton produced drawings for it. One of the reasons that nothing never materialized was that Ayrton fell ill with diabetes that year and couldn't work. See pages 18 and 289 of ISBN 9780814330029. Uncle G (talk) 19:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Kazuhiko Nishijima

• ... that Japanese theoretical physicist Kazuhiko Nishijima is well-known for developing the concept of strangeness in particle physics, which he originally called the "eta-charge"?

5x expanded by Headbomb (talk). Self nom at 22:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Kazuhiko Nishijima – Headbomb (give) (tag)

• Dates, length fact, refs are Ok, but I would rephrase the hook. For example,

ALT1 ... that Japanese theoretical physicist Kazuhiko Nishijima developed the concept of strangeness for subatomic particles? Materialscientist (talk) 03:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm reluctant to part with the "eta-charge" part entirely, but I trimmed the fat and added context. Is this better? Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 04:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok with me, but I feel "eta-charge" is a scary detail which is too much for DYK and should be read in the article. Perhaps just me. Materialscientist (talk) 09:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Duke Riley

• ... that artist Duke Riley staged a Roman sea battle at the Queens Museum of Art?

• ALT1... that artist Duke Riley was arrested by the NYPD for taking his wooden submarine too close to the Queen Mary 2?

Created by User:Historicist (talk). Self nom 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Duke Riley – Historicist (give) (tag)

Adam Próchnik

• ... that Polish historian and socialist activist, Adam Próchnik, might have been an extramarital son of the Polish Prime Minister Ignacy Daszyński?

Created by Piotrus (talk). Self nom at 18:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Adam Próchnik – Piotrus (give) (tag)

• "might have been"? Facts only, please. --76.64.78.148 (talk) 00:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• What's wrong with it if the most that we can say is "it seems so, but we can't be sure"? Less than a month ago, my creation Dunns Pond Mound was approved with the hook of "that the Dunns Pond Mound in Ohio may have been used for Native American burials for nine centuries?" I would advise a change of "extramarital" to "illegitimate" to fit the link. Nyttend (talk) 16:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Battle for Lake Tanganyika

• ... that the Battle for Lake Tanganyika (Lake Tanganyika pictured) involved an expedition dragging motor boats through Africa, led by a man "court-martialled for wrecking his own ships, an inveterate liar and a wearer of skirts"?

Created by Benea (talk). Self nom at 17:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Battle for Lake Tanganyika – Benea (give) (tag)

• I've fiddled the punctuation slightly, otherwise fine. Alternatively, you could do something about the African Queen in the hook... Shimgray | talk | 17:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Ibnu Parna, Acoma Party

• ... that the Indonesian politician Ibnu Parna, leader and the sole MP of the communist Acoma Party, was killed in the 1965 massacres?

Created by Soman (talk). Self nom at 15:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Ibnu Parna – Soman (give) (tag)
•   Acoma Party – Soman (give) (tag)

Atractocarpus chartaceus, Atractocarpus fitzalanii, Atractocarpus benthamianus, Gardenia jasminoides, and Atractocarpus

• ... that the flowers of the Australian rainforest plant Atractocarpus chartaceus smell like Gardenia?

Created by Poyt448 (talk). Nominated by Casliber (talk) at 14:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Atractocarpus chartaceus – Poyt448 (give) (tag)
•   Nom credit: Casliber (give)
•   Atractocarpus fitzalanii – Casliber (give) (tag)
•   Atractocarpus benthamianus – Casliber (give) (tag)
•   Gardenia jasminoides – Casliber (give) (tag)
•   Atractocarpus – Casliber (give) (tag)

• New article, passes DYK check. Assuming good faith for offline ref for the hook. Smartse (talk) 14:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I've given Gardenia a capital and italicised it as it is a genus. Smartse (talk) 14:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Stop press - I'll try to make this a triple decker. I got carried away...I have Atractocarpus fitzalanii in my garden which I much prefer, and I noted it was redlinked. A doozy coming up. I should have some photos somewhere too....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• ... that the Australian rainforest (and garden) plants Narrow-leaved-, Brown, and Native Gardenias of the genus Atractocarpus have fragrant flowers, much like the more familiar Common Gardenia?

Barry Mill

• ... that oats have been ground at a watermill on the site of Barry Mill, in Scotland, since 1539?

Created/expanded by Scott MacDonald (talk). Self nom at 13:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Barry Mill – Scott MacDonald (give) (tag)

• Refs, size and date are fine. The hook is a bit "mill" heavy with "milled...watermill...Barry Mill", perhaps "ground" rather than "milled"? Long Shrift (talk) 15:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• • So amended, thanks.--Scott Mac (Doc) 16:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

De Heidebloem, Erica

• ... that between 1894 and 1911, the sails on De Heidebloem (pictured), a smock mill in Erica, Drenthe, were rented from a sailmaker in Meppel?

5x expanded by Mjroots (talk). Self nom at 07:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   De Heidebloem, Erica – Mjroots (give) (tag)

• Date's fine. Length > 1500 chars. Hook is 139 chars. Hook is inline referenced, and the specific point is addressed by the source. But the source for the hook is another database like Wikipedia, and the database entry is itself unsourced. Thus, I think the policy WP:SOURCES trumps any DYK guideline, and makes the hook wholly ineligible for DYK. As all the sources for the article are unsourced database entries, there's nothing in the article which can be used for DYK. I also think WP:SPS likely applies as the editors of the database are also the publishers. Additionally, this fails B1, in that the article, by virtue of its inadequate sourcing, is not a "qualifying article"; D11, in that I see no good cause to allow this article to get by on just one source; and WP:NOTADVERTISING, slightly, by including the hours of operation of the facility.

  In short, this is likely an unsalvageable nomination unless the nominator (or others) are prepared to exert considerable effort to make it eligible. Still, that exact circumstance is described next to the big, orange "X" template, so the big, orange "X" is what it gets. Hopefully, though, by giving an unambiguous "no" this early in the DYK nom process, the nominator will have enough time to try to turn the "No" into a "Yes". We need more Dutch subjects in DYK. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 08:38, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

  • Sources used are the Dutch Molendatabase website and the De Hollandsche Molen website, both of which I believe meet WP:RS. User:Drmies had no problem with the source in an earlier DYK (Jantina Hellingmolen). The mill has an article on the Dutch Wikipedia, thus pre-establishing its notability. WP:MILLS members would also support the article in any AfD discussion. When I expanded the article I did not take the text of the Dutch article and translate it, I wrote the article in my own words using the quoted sources. The public access section is similar to many other articles on museums, tourist attractions etc. If a reader comes across an article, then decides to visit the attraction as a result that can't be a bad thing. It could result in the reader then returning and improving the article by adding photos for example. That editor may then decide to stay around and further improve Wikipedia, which can't be a bad thing, can it. Mjroots (talk) 09:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Notability is further established by the fact the mill is listed as a Rijksmonument, which brings it under the wing of WP:HSITES. Mjroots (talk) 09:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I don't see the problem, honestly. The mill is a Rijksmonument which, I believe, makes it automatically notable, just like the "historical landmark" status does for US buildings. That something has an article on the Dutch pedia does not impress me very much, but this one is notable enough in its own right. That there isn't much coverage to be found in Google (I checked Books, News, and 'regular') isn't very relevant; the Dutch may be progressive in many ways but digitizing isn't one of them--I have no doubt that the local Emmen paper would have reported on them. That's neither here nor there, though, since we have at least one reliable source: De Hollandsche Molen, which has been active since the 1920s, is the premier Dutch organization dedicated to windmills. The editors might also be the publishers, but I don't see how that matters, since this is a not for profit organization with national renown: if you want to know something about Dutch windmills, that's where you go. (BTW, someone needs to write an article on them.) They could not have achieved such status without editorial oversight. They also publish a number of (well-respected) books, and that should also be an indication that the site is reliable enough. If the opening hours are a problem, cut it--I don't think it's a big deal. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 14:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
  • The mill has an article on the Dutch Wikipedia, thus pre-establishing its notability. — Wrong. It has no effect on whether something is notable. WP:MILLS members would also support the article in any AfD discussion. — which would be simple ballot stuffing, and wouldn't sway argument unless they could actually provide a policy-based rationale.

    Mjroots, instead of making bogus arguments about notability that aren't based upon the actual concept of notability, or trying to argue that because something is a Rijksmonument it satisfies the sourcing requirements of DYK, I suggest that you address the sourcing issue, as Drmies is. Start with finding a copy of Gerding's Encyclopedie van Drenthe‎ and reading its entry for Heidebloem. Uncle G (talk) 16:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

    • Hey Uncle G, would you count De Hollandsche Molen as a reliable source? Drmies (talk) 20:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Uncle G, perhaps you misunderstood my comment. If any mill article gets nominated at AfD, I would merely notify the WP via the talk page that it had been nominated. I wouldn't canvas members to vote in the discussion because I believe that there would be no need to do so. Re sources, I can only work with the sources I have. As I stated above, I believe both sources I used meet WP:RS. As for the notability of individual windmills, I've created a lot of articles on individual windmills in the UK, and none of those has ever been deemed to be non-notable. It would seem that consensus is that windmills are notable in their own right. You can't say that one country's windmills are notable and that another country's windmills aren't. Mjroots (talk) 16:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
      • I've asked for comment about the sources used at WP:RSN. Mjroots (talk) 18:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
      • Czechout, WP:SPS does not apply in this case. Neither website is published by the owner of De Heidebloem. Mjroots (talk) 19:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
        • Mjroots, the argument that "if structures of type x are notable in one country they are neccessarily notable in another" is spurious. Notability doesn't respect such international egalitarian arguments. The question is "is the thing actually being noted in an of itself?". Besides which it depends a bit on rarity, there are millions of Christian churches in the US, but (AFAIK) none in Tibet. If one opened in Tibet it would probably be notable - that would not make a new church in the US automatically notable. Holland has a lot of operational mills, the UK has very few.--Scott Mac (Doc) 07:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
          • My opinion is that individual windmills are on a notability level with ships, i.e inherently notable. A windmill was a very significant investment for the original owner, costing many times more than a house would have done to build. (by extension this applies to watermills too). The vast majority of windmills that are still standing today should have enough sources available to establish that notability. A good percentage of windmills standing into the C20th should also have enough sources available to establish that notability. Failing that, all verifiable windmills that have existed should at least be mentioned in the relevant "List of windmills in ....". Mjroots (talk) 07:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
          • I think it's a little odd that so much of this discussion so far has been utterly wasted on notability arguments. Nowhere in my objection do I even mention the subject's notability as an issue for the DYK. I mentioned as a query on the nominator's talk page, but I deliberately didn't put it here. I figured that by getting more sources any of my private concerns about notability would've naturally been assuaged. However, since the topic has been broached in this discussion, and particularly because the nominator has asserted that there are no better sources available, I'll just point out that WP:FAILN does say "If appropriate sources cannot be found after a good-faith search for them, consider merging the article's content into a broader article providing context." It really might be better to merge all Dutch mills of this type into a single article, get reliable secondary sources to describe the characteristics and importance of the form, and then use this other tertiary source to provide some of the details about particular mills.

            But, for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that the nominator is unlikely to take such a radical step, and return to the focus on sources for this article as it stands. Of course WP:SPS is of concern here. A self-published source isn't just one written by a party connected with the subject of the article in question. "Self-published", according to the actual policy language, is just anyone creating a website or paying to have a book published and thereby lays claim to being an expert in a certain field. The website from which you derived the substance of the hook does just this. The editors of that site are also its publishers. And it's edited much like Wikipedia — although to be fair it isn't an open wiki, I don't suppose. There's nothing in the language that describes the site on the home page which suggests any sort of division between "managing" and "contributing" editors. It just asserts that the contributors are "professionals". What does that mean exactly? What's a professional mill spotter? I think I have a right to ask for a bit more clarification that just "Oh, yes, it's a proper resource; these guys have been doing it for years." As far as I can see, this is an "invitation-only" wiki, published by the guys who write it. That's a little better than a Wikia wiki, but not enough to remove the stench of WP:SPS. Please provide genuine evidence of some kind of editorial review process for this source. To me, it just reeks of one of those smaller Wikia wikis where two or three admin are left as the only active contributors.

            The other problem is that the information on this little wiki-like thing is in no way sourced itself. There's absolutely no way to independently verify the claims of the "wiki". Again, this article is based on tertiary sources. That's a real problem. We don't actually know the source for the hook. "This high quality database." Yes, but where did they get their information? I just don't see how we can, in good conscience, pass a hook that hasn't been published in a reliable secondary source. We're already kinda "good faith"-ing the fact it's in Dutch. Should we also "good faith" these "professional mill spotters"? On a point of historical fact? No, we shouldn't. Surely a local university should be able to point you (or another member of WP:MILLS, in the right direction. Surely an email to the operators of this "wiki" will yield results. They have to know where they got their information, even if they don't feel obliged to list those sources on their site. I just cannot accept that the only record of this historical fact is a self-published, Dutch-language database. If, as the nominator has just posted, "The vast majority of windmills that are still standing today should have enough sources available ..." then where the heck are the reliable, secondary sources for this one? CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 08:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

            • I didn't mean that there are no better sources available. I meant that I personally have no better sources. The most reliable sources in this case are likely to be Dutch language books on "Molens in Drenthe". Unfortunately, my small library of Dutch language books doesn't possess one on Drenthe. Therefore I'm forced to rely on what I can find on t'internet. Re the "Wiki" problem. Yes, there is a form for a reader to submit further text on an individual mill. That said, the websites aim is to document all windmills in Belgium and the Netherlands. It would not be in their interest to deliberately include false information about a mill. In other words, it is highly likely that the site is moderated to prevent vandalism occuring in the first place, rather than allowing in and removing it later. Comments on both sources would be appreciated at WP:RSN where I have raised the issue for discussion by the community. Vereniging De Hollandshe Molens is probably the oldest of all mill-related groups. In the UK the equivalent is the Mills Section of the Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings. Mjroots (talk) 08:45, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
            • I have no idea about the reliability of sources on this article. However, the notion that windmills can escape the need for reliable sources that confer notability because they are "inherently notable" is wrong. Something is notable if it is being noted in reliable verifiable sources.--Scott Mac (Doc) 09:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
              • Scott, you misunderstand me. Inherent notability means that the subject is automatically notable enough to have its own article. That said, WP:V and WP:RS still apply. If all that can be found on a particular windmill will fit entirely into the infobox, then it's probably best not to create an individual article, but mention the mill in a list. What we have here is a dispute over whether the De Hollandsche Molens and Molendatabase websites meet WP:RS. I'm of the opinion that they are (and others agree with me on this), while CzechOut is of the opinion that they are not. Mjroots (talk) 09:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
                • The subject is NOT automatically notable enough to have its own article. If there is sufficient verifiable material to justify one, fine - but it is not automatic, notability requires to be established here as elsewhere. Indeed notability is probably a red-herring anyway. All we should ask, is do we have verifiable material? If so, how do we organise it best?--Scott Mac (Doc) 09:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
                  • This source, whilst not saying the sails were rented, at least confirms that Sailmaker Wouda was in some way involved with the mill between 1894 and 1911. Mjroots (talk) 11:17, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
                    • • • Not a valid source. Clearly violates WP:SPS. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 17:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
            • I made exactly the same point, in just 1 sentence, above. I then went on further to point to a source. So far, Mjroots has made no apparent effort to do as I suggested, and is still even now making yet more fallacious arguments about notability. Mjroots, it's your DYK nomination that is timing out here whilst you continue to not follow good suggestions and waste time with bogus notability arguments. You've already wasted 24 hours of the time allotted with bogus arguments instead of following up on a source that you were pointed to. Uncle G (talk) 13:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
      • It would seem that consensus is that windmills are notable in their own right. — Wrong. That people have not paid attention until now doesn't mean that you're doing things correctly. And I reiterate my suggestion to stop making entirely fallacious notability arguments as you are doing and address the sourcing issue. Uncle G (talk) 13:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
        • If you care to check the article, you will see that I have used the source you mentioned to reference parts of the article. The article now has references from five different sources instead of two. Mjroots (talk) 13:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
          • No. I'm talking about the entry for Heidebloem in Michiel Alexander Wilhelm Gerding's Encyclopedie van Drenthe‎, ISBN 9789023239321. Uncle G (talk) 19:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
            • Okay, we're kinda getting somewhere. This asset actually is online as well, although I can't find an entry which supports the hook, and it's still a tertiary source. But at least it's something with clear editorial oversight. Here's a little something on this specific mill. Unlike any other source currently cited by the Wiki article, though, this encyclopedia does actually give a source for the information: Anton Bicker Caarten's 1979 edition of Molens in Drenthe. ISBN 907007253X (Zwolle/Meppel). CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 20:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
      • On the basis of this document I now remove my objection to the source, De Holladsche Molen. However, that document also gives detailed information as to where the source material for that database is housed, and I would encourage the nominator or future editors of the article to try to gain access to the paper hard copies, most of which have not been digitized. According to the website, these are open to public inspection on most days from 10h-15h. The website also suggests they may take queries by email, so perhaps you don't even have to go there to strike a rich vein of new sources.

This does not mean that my "no" vote has suddenly changed to a "yes". Unfortunately, the source of the hook is still questionable. The Molendatabase, per discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#De Hollandsche Molen and Molendatabase websites, does not have editorial oversight, and is non-professional is still under review (please do click on the link to find out current status of that review). Though hopefully that discussion is far from over, Molendatabase is still a bit short of WP:SOURCES, and seems, at this stage, to also offend WP:SELFPUB. It might be helpful to simply remove that hook line from the article altogether. It's the only thing being attributed to that source. This will remove the offending element from the article, and allow the nominator to choose a new hook from the other sourced statements. Also, since this discussion began, the nominator has added more sources. One of them (currently listed as number 6, xs4all) is completely inappropriate. as it's taken from an individual's personal website.

I still bemoan the lack of secondary sources here, though, and would ask other editors besides myself and the nominator to comment upon this question: Is it acceptable for the source of a DYK hook to be from a tertiary source? Though I'm satisfied that the De Hollandsche Molen and Encyclopedia Drenthe online sources have adequate editorial oversight, it would seem that the article practically screams for {{refimprove}} dispute tag on the article, because it falls foul of WP:PSTS. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 21:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT HOOK: ... that the miller of De Heidebloem (pictured), a smock mill in Erica, Drenthe, was made a member of the Order of Orange-Nassau in 2004?. Mjroots (talk) 21:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, you and I are on the same wavelength on this new alt. I don't really like your alt cause it's a little indirect and because, grammatically, the miller isn't pictured. But I've been translating some of the sources we're starting to agree are reasonably good tertiary sources, and I've found what is (to me, at least) an interesting fact that's not in the article. The source which supports the ALT HOOK you've just laid down, as well as this source given in the article (click on Geschiedenis to view), both suggest that the mill is now an instructional mill for millers-in-training. So, provided we can get the question answered of whether tertiary sources are good enough for a hook, what about this:

ALT2: ... that De Heidebloem (pictured), smock mill in Erica, Drenthe is used now as an instructional mill to train new millers? CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 22:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

To simply quote WP:RS, tertiary sources "should not be used in place of secondary sources for detailed discussion". Not many online secondary sources seem to be there, so I think it would be ok for simple facts like these. But let's see what others think. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 10:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I like CzechOut's new hook better than the original one. Nice fact-finding, Czech! Drmies (talk) 18:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Amanita abrupta

• ... that the toxic mushroom Amanita abrupta damages the liver similar to the destroying angel and the deathcap?

Created by Sasata (talk). Self nom at 06:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Amanita abrupta – Sasata (give) (tag)

• "causes injurious changes to liver function" = "damages the liver" or "causes liver damages"? --76.64.78.148 (talk) 00:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, your suggestion is better (and shorter). Hook changed - thanks. Sasata (talk) 00:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

New article, hook checks out fine and it passes DYKcheck. Nice article. Smartse (talk) 14:05, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

30 Boxes

• ... that the calendar web application 30 Boxes is able to determine the time, date, and title of an event from a single sentence?

Created by Gary King (talk). Self nom at 04:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   30 Boxes – Gary King (give) (tag)

Ron Paul presidential campaign, 1988

• ... that during his 1988 run for President of the United States, Ron Paul remarked that his opponents were his campaign's "best recruiters"?

Created by William S. Saturn (talk). Self nom at 04:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Ron Paul presidential campaign, 1988 – William S. Saturn (give) (tag)

• Lengths and date verified. However, the mentioned hook seems to be an original generalization - according to both the article and the supporting source, Paul only spoke about 3 particular opponents (Quayle, Bush, and Dukakis). It's also a rather boring hook based on a very generic statement. Maybe something can be made of the handcuffs story?--Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT, ... that during his 1988 run for the presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party, one of Ron Paul's opponents remarked that as president he would "put handcuffs on all IRS agents"?

• Formally now. I'd wait for a bit to see if someone can come up with a more engaging hook. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:11, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT2, ... that Ron Paul's 1988 nomination as the Libertarian candidate for the presidency may have saved the party from going into the election with a candidate who wanted "to put handcuffs on all IRS agents"? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:11, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

ALT3 ... that because his 1988 Presidential campaign received very little media coverage, Libertarian Party candidate Ron Paul was excluded from Presidential debates? LargoLarry (talk) 14:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm new to the DYK thingy, but isn't this rather... mundane? Politicians attack others all the time during political campaigns, what's unusual about this one? Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 02:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't need to be unusual, it needs to be interesting. I think the first hook is the best on here. "Mundane" is a poor description of the hook(s) and this is coming from somebody who is not new to DYK. --William S. Saturn (talk) 18:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, the very first hook is not fully supported by the sources. But moreover, I agree with Headbomb. A hook should be "hooky", i.e. it should draw people in. A fairly generic campaign statement fails to do that at least for me. Libertarians are, in general, fairly colorful, so I think we should be able to find a real eye-catcher. My own suggestion (ALT2) is a bit too long and convoluted to make me happy, too. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I think you are all making too much of this. Bush and Dukakis were his opponents, so I'm not understanding your statement that it is not supported by the sources. --William S. Saturn (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Bush, Dukakis (and Quayle, the third listed in the source) are neither an exhaustive list of Paul's opponents nor primarily known as Paul's opponents. His statement does not cover Russell Means, or Lenora Fulani, while your version does. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Russell Means was the opponent for the nomination, Fulani was not a serious candidate. A DYK is not supposed to go into any great detail, but just show an interesting fact, such as an ironic statement. Were Bush and Dukakis not "his opponents"? I still don't completely understand your objection . --William S. Saturn (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Buckleya distichophylla

• ... that the largest concentration of the parasitic plant species Buckleya distichophylla can be found in the Poor Mountain Natural Area Preserve of Roanoke County, Virginia, USA?

Created by Patriarca12 (talk). Self nom at 03:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Buckleya distichophylla – Patriarca12 (give) (tag)

• New article, passes DYK check and the hook has been verified. I removed a questionable "rarest plant in the world" section from the lead. Smartse (talk) 14:15, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Al Purvis

• ... that Al Purvis of the Edmonton Mercurys, a hockey team sponsored by a local car dealership, won the gold medal at the 1952 Winter Olympics, Canada's last Olympic gold medal in the sport for 50 years?

Created by Alansohn (talk). Self nom at 02:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Al Purvis – Alansohn (give) (tag)

• Character length>1500. Expanded 5x, in appropriate date range. But I don't like the hook at all. It's trying too hard, and actually combining two facts. The entire sentence therefore has no inline citation in the article. (How could such a convoluted since have attribution?) The hook should be about something notable to Al Purvis, not to Canada's Olympic Men's Ice Hockey Team. Also, article, generally, is backed by only two sources, one of them being just an encyclopedia. There's gotta be more out there about this guy. And surely there's something in the as-yet-unfound references that'll really give us something interesting to say about Al Purvis. (Not sure btw, that there's that much in graf 5 that's at all useful to this biographical article. If you could find references for what Purvis did for his team during the 1952 Olympics, that'd be sweet, but just a summary of the games doesn't really belong in an Al Purvis article. Also, article currently doesn't agree with itself as far as the date of his death. Is it the 12th, the 14th or as this really crappy source suggests the 13th of August? The man literally just died and we've got three different dates bouncing around!

So, a handful of of goals here then. 1) find more sources, 2) reorient the article so that it's about Al Purvis, not the fate of Canadian Olympic Hockey and 4) make the hook only about Al Purvis. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 20:52, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Additional primary/secondary sources:

• This one's from around the time of the 02 Olympics
• This establishes he also played baseball in Edmonton.
• Here's another piece from The Edmonton Journal, before his death. Not sure what's in that one of any real use, except maybe that it identifies him as having the top-selling Ford dealership in Canada "over the years".

Additional tertiary sources (with editorial oversight):

• This establishes he was on the Mercurys (though it's interesting that The Canadian Encyclopedia doesn't think he's noteworthy enough for an entry of his own) CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 21:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Inns of Chancery

• ... that although John Fortescue listed ten Inns of Chancery, only nine are known? fivefold expansion - previous prose was 1807, requiring 9035 for a fivefold. I count 9114 characters give or take a few [1] reftags, which should be fine. Ironholds (talk) 01:43, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Inns of Chancery – Ironholds (give) (tag)

8916/1911 = 4.7x expansion, continue. orangefreak³³ 04:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• Hmm, whoever knew inline citations could take up so much space. Alrighty, I've expanded it again. Ironholds (talk) 13:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Older nominations

Articles created/expanded on August 17

Portuguese Fireplace

• ... that the Portuguese Fireplace war memorial is the last remains of a cookhouse from a camp where Portuguese labourers helped the Canadian Forestry Corps in felling timber in the New Forest when local labour was short?

Created by Simply south (talk). Self nom at 23:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC) Comment I haven't had time to check characters. Simply south (talk) 23:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• • Alt 1 - ...that the Portuguese Fireplace is the remains of a cookhouse from camp in which Portuguese labourers helped the Canadian Forestry Corps in felling timber in the New Forest in World War I?

• • Alt 2 - that Portuguese Fireplace is Wikipedia's 3000,001st article? (Whilst true, you probably shouldn't use this).

Simply south (talk) 11:01, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Khiyam al-Walid

• ... that the former Palestinian Arab village of Khiyam al-Walid is believed to be a reference to the tents of Khaled ibn al-Walid's army which conquered the Levant in the 7th century?

Dr. Blofeld (talk), Al Ameer son (talk). Self nom at 15:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Good to go. AGF of offline source. --Allen3 ^talk 09:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Tulayl

• ... that scholars identify the mound upon which the depopulated Palestinian Arab village of Tulayl was built, with the Roman town of "Thella"?

Dr. Blofeld (talk), Al Ameer son (talk). Self nom at 15:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Good to go. AGF of offline source. --Allen3 ^talk 09:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Bashshit

• ... that a 1999 excavation by the Israel Antiquities Authority inside a sewer pipe in the depopulated Arab village of Bashshit revealed ceramic remains dating back to the Early Islamic period?

Created by Dr. Blofeld (talk), Al Ameer son (talk), Tiamut (talk). Self nom at 15:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

SM91

• ... that the tram company of Oslo became the first company to be found guilty of homicide in Norway as a result of a 2001 fatal accident involving an SM91 tram imported from Sweden for merely 1 krone?

Created by Sjakkalle (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 06:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

José de los Reyes Berreyesa

• ... that 61-year-old José de los Reyes Berreyesa, a prominent Californio landowner, was shot and killed by Kit Carson and two other of John C. Frémont's men in 1846?

Created by Binksternet (talk). Self nom at 16:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Berreyesa family

• ... that members of the Berreyesa family received large California land grants from Mexico but lost most of them to Americans after 1851?

Created by Binksternet (talk). Self nom at 16:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Asaga

• ... that Asaga's Vardhaman Charitra (Life of Vardhaman), written in 853 CE, was the first Sanskrit language biography of Jain Tirthankara, Mahavir (pictured)?

Created by Csn 61 (talk). Nominated by Ekabhishek (talk) at 07:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hamsa-Sandesha

• ... that the Hamsa-Sandesha is a Sanskrit love poem that tells the story of Rama and Sita in the style of Kalidasa's Meghaduta?

Created by Opfallon (talk). Self nom at 18:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Hamsa-Sandesha – Opfallon (give) (tag)

• I have italicized the poem titles in the proposed hook. Abecedare (talk) 05:16, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Beate Eriksen

• ... that Norwegian actress Beate Eriksen is the granddaughter of Olympic gymnast Marius Eriksen, and daughter of World War II flying ace Marius Eriksen, Jr.?

Created by Lampman (talk). Nominated by Floydian (talk) at 18:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Beate Eriksen – Lampman (give) (tag)
•   Nom credit: Floydian (give)

• There's currently a tag in the lead, is this ok or not? I think it is for the fact that she is a producer as well as an actor and director - I guess this should be removed if we don't have a source. Otherwise the article is fine, I'm glad it's made it to DYK. Smartse (talk) 14:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• I added that tag and it's for her being a producer only. __meco (talk) 14:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Removed the producer bit/citation needed tag. The article doesn't list anything she produced, so I'm sure it could be removed until we find more information. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:45, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• Ready to go Smartse (talk) 22:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

List of programmes broadcast by CITV

• ... that ITV1 are forced by Ofcom to show eight hours of children's programmes each week?

5x expanded by 03md (talk). Self nom at 23:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   List of programmes broadcast by CITV – 03md (give) (tag)

• I didn't know it, and after checking sources I still don't know it, because it's not actually true. The Ofcom statement on the matter, to be found here says explicitly that it no longer has any power under the Communications Act 2003 to enforce a set number of hours of childrens' programming, since childrens' programming is a "tier 3" class of programming which is self-regulated by broadcasters. So it's not "forcing" anything here. The amount of childrens' programming shown in 2007 was, moreover, four hours per week, not eight, which the broadcaster wanted to reduce further to two hours per week for 2008. You may have noticed that it is now 2009.

  I suggest getting a hook and an article that are actually accurate. For starters, note that you are working from 2007 sources. Uncle G (talk) 04:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

How about this alternative. 03md 00:01, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that Art Attack is the longest running programme in the history of CITV?

Foulées du Gois

• ... that because the Foulées du Gois road running race is held on a tidal causeway, participants are sometimes forced to swim to the finish line?

Created by Daniel (talk). Nominated by Ironholds (talk) at 22:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Foulées du Gois – Daniel (give) (tag)
•   Nom credit: Ironholds (give)

Empty Dwelling Management Orders

• ... that Empty Dwelling Management Orders, designed to help put empty housing (pictured) back into use in the United Kingdom, have only been used twenty-four times in three years?

Created by Shimgray (talk). Self nom at 22:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Empty Dwelling Management Orders – Shimgray (give) (tag)

Quincy Monk

• ... that in the New York Giants' 2003 playoff game, linebacker Quincy Monk was almost hit in the head by a flying helmet?

5x expanded by Giants27 (talk). Self nom at 21:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Quincy Monk – Giants27 (give) (tag)

Myrmecia esuriens

• ... that William Anderson, a surgeon and naturalist aboard Captain James Cook's HMS Resolution, wrote in 1777 that the Tasmanian Inchman had an "almost intolerable" bite?

• Comment: Ref for hook is offline, but I have provided two snippet, online pieces on the talk page for help in verifying. 2,913 characters, 27x expansion. Deliberately avoided mentioning that it's an ant; people will have to click to find out, ;-)

5x expanded by Maedin (talk). Self nom at 14:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Myrmecia esuriens – Maedin (give) (tag)

What happens on tour, stays on tour

• ... that the phrase, what happens on tour, stays on tour, has been described as an "unspoken male pact that for centuries can never be broken"?

Created by Spy007au (talk). Self nom at 07:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   What happens on tour, stays on tour – Spy007au (give) (tag)

• 1014 characters of prose. There's some odd formatting in the background section that's lowering your prose count. Also, you might want to make the "notable cases" section paragraphs instead of bullets. Shubinator (talk) 21:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• Should be OK now. Spy007au (talk) 08:34, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Frederick W. Panhorst Bridge

• ... that the Frederick W. Panhorst Bridge (pictured), a concrete open-spandrel arch bridge in Russian Gulch State Park near Mendocino, California, replaced an earlier wooden trestle bridge in 1940?

Created by David Eppstein (talk). Self nom at 05:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC). At the time I first made the nomination, the DYK was only for the bridge, but I've since expanded the park article 5x (expansion started on the same day) so now both are bold.

•   Frederick W. Panhorst Bridge – David Eppstein (give) (tag)

Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth

• ... that the release of Margaret Atwood's Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth coinciding with extensive coverage of the financial crisis led to a charity auction featuring predictions by Atwood?

• Comment: taken from this reference in the 3rd paragraph of the "Publication" section.

5x expanded by Maclean25 (talk). Self nom at 04:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth – Maclean25 (give) (tag)

Violin Concerto No. 1 (Glass)

• ... that Philip Glass's first violin concerto was composed to honor Glass's father Ben, who died some sixteen years before the work's conception?

Created by Urbane Legend (talk). Self nom at 00:55, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Violin Concerto No. 1 (Glass) – Urbane Legend (give) (tag)

Danie Mellor

• ... that 2009 National Indigenous Art Award winner Danie Mellor once created a sculpture using ceramics, kangaroo skin, synthetic eyeballs, and stuffed birds?

Created by Hamiltonstone (talk). Self nom at 00:00, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Danie Mellor – Hamiltonstone (give) (tag)

Survival of the Fittest (The Spectacular Spider-Man)

• ... that Robert Englund (pictured), known for portraying the horror film villain Freddy Krueger, provided the voice of the supervillain Vulture in the pilot episode of The Spectacular Spider-Man?

Created/expanded by SuperFlash101 (talk). Self nom at 23:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Survival of the Fittest (The Spectacular Spider-Man) – SuperFlash101 (give) (tag)

Emerald Ensemble

• ... that Bristol's classical chamber orchestra the Emerald Ensemble play standing up and have performed at a local nightclub?

Created by Jezhotwells (talk). Self nom at 23:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Emerald Ensemble – Jezhotwells (give) (tag)

1374 characters of prose, keep going! orangefreak³³ 03:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Ooops, miscounted. That should be OK now. Over 1500 characters. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC) Jezhotwells (talk) 13:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Golden Krust Caribbean Bakery & Grill

• ... that Golden Krust Caribbean Bakery & Grill is a chain of 120 restaurants serving Jamaican patties, jerk chicken and curried goat?

Created by ChildofMidnight (talk). Self nom at 23:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Golden Krust Caribbean Bakery & Grill – ChildofMidnight (give) (tag)

• Where? Pls provide geographical context. If the chain is in Jamaica, this is not an interesting hook. --74.13.124.38 (talk) 01:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• It appears to be a US chain though I'm not sure that the addition of that information makes the hook any more interesting. "Jamaican restaurant in US serves Jamaican food" isn't much better than "Jamaican restaurant serves Jamaican food". Perhaps "... that many of the original franchisees of Golden Krust Caribbean Bakery & Grill were nurses?" or "... that the first Golden Krust Caribbean Bakery & Grill was opened with funds from a family susu?" Long Shrift (talk) 16:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

A hook isn't a summary of what's in the article. If someone wants to find out where the chain is located, they are welcome to use the link to the article (which is the whole point of a hook). If there is a chain of 120 Jamaican food restaurants in Jamaica, that would still be quite noteworthy. I doubt there is one. That's quite a lot of eateries. I think these alternative fast food chains that serve ethnic fare are an interesting story (which is why it's a good hook because people will want to know more about it). ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

How about just adding a "US" between "a" and "chain" in the original hook? Wouldn't that solve everyone's problem without ruining the hook? (And, btw, I for one do share the IP's concern, and take issue with the notion that indicating location is generally a secondary thing. For several reasons, it's quite the opposite that works. Among those reasons I would cite: a mild but annoying degree of cultural arrogance; the fact that most of these "by default in this country" are actually segregated when "this country" is the US, the UK, Ireland, Australia, Canada or some other Anglophone country - which, in the long run, is confusing for those who are not instantly familiar with what applies where; the fact that, if you write about Romania or Bulgaria or Western Sahara or whatnot, it's both common sense and mandatory to specify more or less directly what place your hook refers to. But I digress.) Dahn (talk) 22:46, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

None of the hooks above this one give locations. A hook is not an article summary. But if people want to note in the hook what country the chain is located in they can do so. That information is included appropriately in the article. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Then again, many of the hooks above are written in such a way as to live little doubt about where "the action takes places". Some others simply don't have an exact location. And then, let's note how many of those hooks refer to one of the main Anglo-Saxon countries, for which I refer you to my comment above. Now, I'm not going to make this into my universal objection, because that would be: a) time consuming; b) stupid (there are many cases where this isn't an essential - although, all things considered, it would be a good addition even where non-essential). I also don't see how specifying which country/region the hook refers to is the same as an article summary. Particularly since, again, this doesn't seem to apply as much to countries outside a circle. And particularly since those countries too could do with some "opening" of the hooks, if not for people outside the circle to catch their meaning, then at least for people in another country within the circle. I could illustrate how ridiculous it is not to apply this if I were to rephrase some of my own hooks about Romania without any indication of context, but I think I already took too much space with my explaining my point. Dahn (talk) 01:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

• ... that callaloo and ackee are among the Jamaican cuisine offerings at Golden Krust Caribbean Bakery & Grill, a chain of 120 restaurants in the United States?

Here's an alternate. If it's too long just cut out some or all of the part after the comma. I made sure to include where it's located though, apparently hooks aren't meant to encourage people to link to the article to learn more about a subject... ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Keeper of the Flame (film)

• ... that the script for the 1943 Hepburn–Tracy motion picture Keeper of the Flame includes information from the U.S. Office of War Information, a propaganda agency of the U.S. government?

5x expanded by Tim1965 (talk). Self nom at 22:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Keeper of the Flame (film) – Tim1965 (give) (tag)

• My typo! Got the year off; fixed now. - Tim1965 (talk) 22:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• According to the article, the scriptwriter consulted the Office of War Information, but it doesn't say anything about the script including information that they provided. Unless the information can be identified in the final script I would think rewording the hook would be the best plan, as the script seems to have undergone several major rewrites after Stewart consulted the Office of War Information. Long Shrift (talk) 14:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• I clarified that by quoting each of the sources I still have access to (one book went back to the library already) in the footnote, quotes which indicate that the film's script include information from OWI (in particular the Christine Forrest speech). Does that help? The sources say the script includes information; I can't challenge the sources, and I'm sure you aren't either (it's all about the neutral, unbiased sources not expert opinion). - Tim1965 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Length, date and refs are fine, and with the changes to the article I'm convinced the hook is accurate. Long Shrift (talk) 21:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Santalum austrocaledonicum

• ... that in the first 15 years of its logging in New Caledonia, 8,000 tonnes of sandalwood, especially Santalum austrocaledonicum, was harvested?

Created by Fleetflame (talk). Self nom at 22:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Santalum austrocaledonicum – Fleetflame (give) (tag)

• Age, length hook ref OK - I'm assuming that Lonely Planet guide books are accepted as reliable sources, but if not, I'm sure someone will set me straight :-) hamiltonstone (talk) 23:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

According to WP:RSN, travel guides are considered reliable, but not preferred. I'll see if I can find a better reference. Fleetflame 00:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

After a cursory search, I haven't been able to find a better source for the information. I strongly prefer the original hook, but if the source is unacceptable, here is an alternate: Fleetflame 08:55, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• ... that from 1977 to 1987, 726 tonnes of sandalwood (especially Santalum austrocaledonicum) were removed from Vanuatu?

Malik Dohan al-Hassan

• ... that Dr Malik Dohan al-Hassan was appointed Justice Minister of Iraq in 2004 at the age of 84?

Created by AndrewRT(Talk). Self nom at 22:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Malik Dohan al-Hassan – AndrewRT (give) (tag)

• Hook fact does not have a citation. Also, the article has a lot of single or two lined paragraphs. It would be better if some of those relevant ones were combined, since it gives too much of an incomplete appearance. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 08:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

William Johnson Sollas

• ... that after his death William Johnson Sollas was implicated in the Piltdown Man hoax by his assistant, J.A. Douglas? Ironholds (talk) 21:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   William Johnson Sollas – Ironholds (give) (tag)

• I fixed the typo.--Wetman (talk) 22:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Age, length, hook ref OK. hamiltonstone (talk) 03:43, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Supermarine Aircraft

• ... that the Australian Supermarine Aircraft company make the only aluminum reproduction Supermarine Spitfire currently in production?

Created by Thruxton (talk). Self nom at 20:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Supermarine Aircraft – Thruxton (give) (tag)

• DO you mean "is currently making"? --74.13.124.38 (talk) 01:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• I have put this up at AfD owing to a lack of sources for notability, and reliability problems. Also, the only source for the fact in the proposed hook is the company itself. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC) While this is currently an AfD discussion, I have now recommended it be kept, owing to improved references now added. On that basis, it is likely to be good to go as soon as an admin closes the AfD (which will be a few days I think). hamiltonstone (talk) 11:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• A nice little rescue, AfD closed, age length hook ref OK. hamiltonstone (talk) 05:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Marry Me a Little, Marry Me a Little More

• ... that parts of the Will & Grace episode "Marry Me a Little, Marry Me a Little More" were filmed in Central Park?

Created by ThinkBlue (talk), Theleftorium (talk). Self nom at 14:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Marry Me a Little, Marry Me a Little More – ThinkBlue (give) (tag)
•   Marry Me a Little, Marry Me a Little More – Theleftorium (give) (tag)

• Is that unusual? New York-based sitcom films in New York shocker! From a quick glance through there seem to be other more groundbreaking facts that would make for a more hooky hook. Long Shrift (talk) 16:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree. How about using this:

... that the Will & Grace episode "Marry Me a Little, Marry Me a Little More" was the first time in television history that a Jewish protagonist married inside the faith?

If you can add a ref to that, it would be a great hook imho. Regards SoWhy 20:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The source is available in the Reception section. Do you want me to include the source here? Also, your hook suggestion definitely works. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:52, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I added the ref to the first time that is mentioned in the article so people can easily see it. Refs check out and so does everything else, so this is good to go with the proposed alt hook. Regards SoWhy 21:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for having patience with this. :) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The source says is it was the "first prime-time sitcom ever to feature a wedding between a Jewish woman and a Jewish man", which is a good deal more restrictive than either the hook or the article, but if you want to stick with the same basic hook try "... that the Will & Grace episode "Marry Me a Little, Marry Me a Little More" was the first time that a prime-time sitcom showed a Jewish protagonist marrying inside the faith?" Long Shrift (talk) 22:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, let's try that hook, then. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I made the change to the article too. Theleftorium 19:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Blue Bell, Chester

• ... that part of the Blue Bell (pictured), now a restaurant in Chester, Cheshire, England, was originally an inn and possibly had its first licence to sell alcohol as long ago as 1494?

Created by Peter I. Vardy (talk). Self nom at 14:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Blue Bell, Chester – Peter I. Vardy (give) (tag)

• Are you quite certain that licenses were required to "sell alcohol" in the 15th Century? The source (not scholarly, a govt. tourism promotion website) says "license" nothing about alcohol. This is not my field, but it seem possible that it was a public accommodation license, as opposed to an alcohol one. Someone ought to check.Historicist (talk) 15:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• I think the first licensing law for alcohol in England was the Gin Act of 1751, though there may have been local bylaws beforehand. Long Shrift (talk) 16:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I think you're right - apologies. How about the following as an alt hook?

• ... that the Blue Bell in Chester, Cheshire, England, (pictured), contains a chamber separated from the rest of the building which has been a ticket office for stage coach operators, a soda fountain bar and a barber's shop? Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The Cartoons that Shook the World

• ... that Yale University Press took all of the cartoons out of a forthcoming book about the Muhammad cartoon controversy?

  ALT1... that Yale University Press took all of the cartoons out of a forthcoming book about the Muhammad cartoon controversy because of fear of a violent reaction by Muslims?

  ALT2 ... that Yale University Press took not only all of the cartoons but even the ancient Muslim paintings of the Prophet out of a forthcoming book about the Muhammad cartoon controversy?

Created by User:Historicist (talk). Self nom (UTC)

•   The Cartoons that Shook the World – Historicist (give) (tag)

• Why can't the name of the book/article be used in the hook?
• I think the reference says that only illustrations of Muhammad were removed will not be printed, not all cartoons. maclean 04:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The many references to news articles all clearly state that all the cartoons and all the historical images of Muhammad were expunged.Historicist (talk) 12:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• I also want to say that ALT 2 looks like it's leading the reader to a conclusion (the succession "not only... but even..." reads like it expects "oh, noes!" or "well, I'll be!" or "son of a gun!" for an answer). I'm saying this because it is incidentally the only one of the hooks that apparently has something in common with the picture proposed (assuming the picture was one of those "ancient Muslim paintings" removed from The Cartoons that Shook the World. Dahn (talk) 09:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT3... that Yale University Press took all of the cartoons out of The Cartoons that Shook the World, a book about the Muhammad cartoon controversy?Historicist (talk) 12:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
• The new image is copyrighted media, and as such can't be put on the front page. It doesn't even belong on this talk page. Dahn (talk) 13:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• It has already been removed once. I have removed it again, and I have removed an extraneous "a" from ALT3. Long Shrift (talk) 13:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT4... that Yale University Press expunged all of the cartoons from The Cartoons that Shook the World, a book about the Muhammad cartoon controversy?Historicist (talk) 18:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
• ALT5... that Yale University Press expunged all of the cartoons from The Cartoons that Shook the World?Historicist (talk) 18:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• One that specifically mentions the controversy would be best, I think - #3 or #4? I'm also not sure quite what the point of the image attached is - it's a depiction, sure, but not one of the cartoons nor is it something referred to in the hook. Shimgray | talk | 10:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Eugen Taru

• ... that Romanian artist Eugen Taru contributed to the Soviet–Yugoslav propaganda war with large posters depicting Josip Broz Tito as a butcher?

Created by Dahn (talk). Self nom at 13:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Eugen Taru – Dahn (give) (tag)

• Note: the article was since assessed as a stub, but I do believe it's more of a start class. I leave that to the community's decision. Dahn (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC) Thanks for the reassessment. Dahn (talk) 11:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

HMAS Sydney (R17)

• ... that one reason Australia's first aircraft carrier was named HMAS Sydney was so the Royal Australian Navy could access money raised following the loss of a cruiser of the same name during the Second World War?

5x expanded by Saberwyn (talk). Self nom at 09:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   HMAS Sydney (R17) – Saberwyn (give) (tag)

Other options for hooks include:

• ... that the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney was the first aircraft carrier owned by a British Commonwealth nation to serve in combat? (alt 1)

• ... that the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney was the first aircraft carrier owned by a Commonwealth dominion to serve in combat? (alt 1a)

• ... that the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney was the last ship to be commissioned into the Royal Australian Navy as His Majesty's Australian Ship? (alt 2)

• ... that the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney was the only light fleet carrier to be constructed in a Royal Dockyard? (alt 3)

• ... that a United States Navy helicopter embarked aboard the Australian aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney performed the longest helicopter rescue flight over enemy territory during the Korean War? (alt 4)

• ... that the first aircraft to land on the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney was a helicopter carrying Santa Claus? (alt 5)

• ... that following the decommissioning of the aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney, one of the proposals for her preservation was as a car park for the Sydney Opera House? (alt 6)

Also, the image File:HMAS Sydney (R17) (AWM 301423).jpg could be used with one of these other hooks, but it isn't really appropriate for the top one. -- saberwyn 09:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Expansion 39722/9480=4.2. Can you add more? Materialscientist (talk) 10:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• re alt one the UK is just as much a Commonwealth country as any other Commonwealth member, so this nees to specify other than the UK (already changed in the article). David Underdown (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
• @Materialscientist: Damn! So close. Expansion to meet 5x is unlikely in the given time... I've exhausted the sources I have immediate access to, and the sources I have identified for further expansion of the article are well beyond my immediate access.
• @David Underdown: The source states "...Her Majesty’s Australian Ship (HMAS) Sydney (R17), the first Commonwealth carrier to go into action...". As a British naval aviator, I'm sure Hobbs has a particular reason for ignoring his own nation and navy, but there's no indication of what that is. I'll accept your change, and have altered the body of the article to match

• He probably just assumed that everyone would know what he meant, but it's not so clear in the global context of Wikipedia. Another possibility, though unlikely, is he meant Commonwealth as in Commonwealth of Australia, not Commonwealth of Nations. David Underdown (talk) 10:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• - first hook looks good and expansion is enough—goodness, it's at ~40,000 bytes. The only problem I see are the few {{citation needed}}'s that are in the article, but a few of these in an article this long and detailed are problems for GAN and FAC. Cheers, —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 04:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Secacah

• ... that scholars believe that Secacah was the ancient name of Khirbet Qumran, the archaeological site where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered?

5x expanded by Em-jay-es (talk). Self nom at 06:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Secacah – Em-jay-es (give) (tag)

• The current article length is 1185 bytes. You need to expand to at least 1500 and site the hook's facts in the article. Materialscientist (talk) 07:04, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
• Thanks for the quick review. I have further expanded the article and I have added the hook's facts. Let me know if this is in compliance with DYK's requirements. Em-jay-es 08:25, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

  Date, length Ok. References accepted in good faith. Materialscientist (talk) 10:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Kingston City Library

• ... that the former library (pictured) of Kingston, New York, has been used as the main offices for the janitors at the neighboring high school?

Created by Daniel Case (talk). Self nom at 05:27, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Kingston City Library – Daniel Case (give) (tag)

• Hook is <200 chars. Article >1500 chars. Hook cited inline. Dates check out. But I really dislike this one source being used for the majority of the article, and for the hook. It's a little close to the WP:RS line for me. An application to the National Register of Historic Places is a) unpublished and b) prejudicial. It's committed to paper by the very people who wrote it, and, in this case, made available online by the same organization: the State of New York. Obviously New York is going to have put the best light it could on the facts, so as to get approval by the US Dept. of Interior. What makes this source bearable is that it does include a bibliography at the back, and the editor of the work can of course be said to be expert in a field relevant to the topic. But still, it'd be nice to see a few more sources here, especially since the NRHP application gives you a list of good sources to check out. I'd like to see a little more work done on diversifying the sources for this article, and particularly to get this hook from somewhere other than the NHRP application.

But the kicker is that the source doesn't actually say what the hook does. My impression of the Sect. 8, page 3 of the NHRP application is that it's the headquarters for custodial staff of the high school next door — not that it's the whole school system's janitorial staff. Likewise, Sect. 7, page 3 of the NHRP directly states: "Currently the building serves as headquarters for the custodial staff of the [Kingston] High School." If it's your belief that the old Library is indeed the custodial headquarters for the entire district you'll need more than the NHRP application as a source.

With a li'l tweaking, this nomination is easily approvable. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 20:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done Appropriately tweaked. We have discussed this issue of NRHP noms as single sources before, to the point that I really have to bite my tongue when someone raises it. In this case I did find other sources for a relevant, encylopedic fact not in the NRHP nom: the recent bond-issue vote (I also looked on the current library and school district websites, neither of which have anything). And of course the nom is published: it's available online, after all, or you wouldn't have been able to review it. I consider its possible prejudice outweighed not only by the factors you mentioned but by the fact that the National Park Service approved the nomination and listed it on the Register, thereby conferring notability.

I really don't like going here again ... the last time some editors got all bureaucratic about this sort of thing, we wound up trying to satisfy them by adding sources of dubious reliabiility that essentially said the same thing. It's important to remember that a) the "single source" rule is not explicitly grounded in any of our sourcing policies, not WP:RS, not WP:CITE and not WP:V] and b) as noted, NRHP noms have to document their sources themselves ... i.e., they're secondary sources. I could pretend the nom doesn't exist and just cite the original sources, all of which are usually offline, out-of-print, and held only in small local historical-society libraries, but that's intellectually dishonest. Daniel Case (talk) 03:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, I think you've missed my point entirely. I never said the NHRP application wasn't appropriate. I just asked for more sources. Your whole article accepts as read everything that the NRHP application writer and her editor put forward. You have no sources for the bulk of the article independent of the 1995 views of Jane Kellar, as edited by John A. Bonafide. It's not intellectually dishonest whatsoever to go checking her sources. That's the very point of a bibliography. You might discover something in the sources that is inaccurately conveyed by Kellar, or you might find something that isn't at all mentioned by her. Just think about trying to get more sources, okay?

"It's not intellectually dishonest whatsoever to go checking her sources" No, but it is impractical. Most of the books are, as I said, out of print and I would have to go up to Kingston, dig around in the library and historical society and check them, then ask people to take my word for it online. We have never asked editors to engage in this level of verification, particularly where secondary sources cite primary sources (Why don't you ask me to call up the people quoted in the newspaper article while you're at it? By your logic I should). We have also never decided not to assume good faith on reliable sources (I don't know why the review of a state government agency and then a federal government agency isn't good enough for you).

I looked for additional sources when I was researching the article, believe me (I would assume on good faith that most established editors who are aware of Wikipedia sourcing policies do, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned). I searched the archives of the Daily Freeman (not easy) and used what I had (And, in fact, I have found newspaper articles to be less reliable as sources for historical information about historic buildings and sites than the NRHP nomination documents. Reporters (and I know, I was one once) can get away with repeating folklore about the sites as fact; the NPS (and as well the state HP agencies who vet the noms first) won't let you do that). I suppose you'll say I could use this? Well, that's an NPS page that just pretty much reiterates the information submitted to it ten years ago. Without footnoting or bibliography, I might add). And I went several pages of Google results deep looking for something that might be useful. I didn't find anything. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Daniel Case (talk) 16:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

In the meantime, you really must tweak the article. You're still at . Despite what you've said above, you haven't touched the article since 16 August. It still says, in two places, that the Library is the custodial headquarters for the entire district, when that's not what your one source says. At present, this thing's still at a "fixable no", because the hook's not to be found in the article. Your article must say what your hook does. And the Kingston HS in the hook must be the right one, not a disambig page. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 05:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done OK, that's fixed as well. Daniel Case (talk) 16:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Edward Atkinson (lawyer)

• ... that when Sir Edward Atkinson was appointed Director of Public Prosecutions he refused to believe it was true and walked out of the Home Office? 5x expanded by Ironholds (talk). Self nom at 05:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Edward Atkinson (lawyer) – Ironholds (give) (tag)

• Good to go. Shimgray | talk | 17:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

USS Missouri grounding incident

• ... that it took two weeks and 23 vessels to free USS Missouri (BB-63) (pictured) after she ran aground on 23 January 1950?

Created by TomStar81 (talk). Self nom at 04:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   USS Missouri grounding incident – TomStar81 (give) (tag)

• I've added "pictured" to the hook, but the date of the incident is a concern. The hook says 23 Jan, the image name says 21 Jan, and the article says 17 jan in the lead paragraph. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
  • It took two weeks and four tries to free Missouri, and while I am certain that there are images of the other attempts out there somewhere this has so far been the only good one I can find. AS a practical matter, the time frame given in the hook accounts for this by allowing for 14 days of effort to get Missouri re-floated, although I do understand where you are coming from. Do you have any suggestions for improvement? I could change the hook altogether if it was a problem by focusing on Captain Brown's 250 position loss on the list of men waiting to command a ship, that's interesting and avoids the whole the date issue. TomStar81 (Talk) 22:32, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
    • The question is: What was the date that she actually ran aground? Three different possible dates are floating around, none of them sourced. The artcile is vague about the date as well, since the section on the event itself gives only the time of day, with no date. The Rules for DYK require that every fact in the hook be properly sourced in the article to be eligible. As it stands, this hook will not work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
• What about the 250 position loss Captain Brown suffered? Would that work? I mean I suggested it above for this exact reason, so if one is ineligible I wold like to know the status of the other at the same time. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
  • No, because that sentence isn't sourced. Any fact used in a DYK hook must be clearly tied to the source where it originated. No source, no hook, no DYK. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
• The 1950-02-08 news report (on the court of inquiry) in the New York Times (MISSOURI CAPTAIN RELIEVED OF DUTY; Predecessor Succeeds Brown as Court Hears of Mistake in Recognizing Buoys) dates the grounding to January the 17th. So too do the two 1950-01-18 news reports in the Los Angeles Times (USS Missouri Fast in Mud; Army Called In for Rescue and Navy's 'Mighty Mo' Hard Aground on Mudbank Off Chesapeake Bay). Other contemporary news reports agree (US Battleship Missouri Aground At Hampton Road — Bend Bulletin 1950-01-17; Mighty Mo' Runs Aground In Bay — Free-Lance Star 1950-01-17).

  The image does not date the grounding to the 21st. It shows the vessel still aground on the 21st.

  The article is right, but it doesn't cite any source against which this particular fact can be checked. (I suggest citing one or more of the above.) The hook is definitely a falsehood, and needs correction. Uncle G (talk) 03:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Nichiji

• ... that the Japanese Buddhist monk Nichiji attempted to walk to Xanadu?

Created by Shii (talk). Self nom at 04:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Nichiji – Shii (give) (tag)

• Ref. 3 (supporting the hook) does not tell about Xanadu and describes the events somewhat differently than the article. Ref.4 (at least modern version) does not have p.160 Materialscientist (talk) 07:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Shangdu is Chinese for Marco Polo's Xanadu. Not sure what you mean by Ref. 4. Shii (tock) 16:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Length, date and the refs I can access are fine, I assume the others are too. If you meant ref 2, Materialscientist it does have a page 160 [4]. Whether ref 4 has a page 1368 though, I can't say. (For those interested in getting a 5x expansion DYK: the Xanadu article is in desperate need of attention). Long Shrift (talk) 16:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Andrew Vinius

• ... that Andrew Vinius melted one quarter of Russia's church bells into cannons within eight months?

• Comment: Created as an effort to create the three millionth article. (Ended up being around 3,000,040, I think) NW (Talk) 04:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Created by NuclearWarfare (talk). Self nom at 04:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Andrew Vinius – NuclearWarfare (give) (tag)

• I don't think you need "once" in there. Long Shrift (talk) 22:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for the comment; you are very right. Fixed. NW (Talk) 23:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Age, length, hook ref AGF, all OK. hamiltonstone (talk) 02:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Bobby Gregg

• ... that Bobby Gregg was the drummer for both Bob Dylan's #2 single "Like a Rolling Stone" and Simon & Garfunkel's #1 single "The Sound of Silence"?

Created by Rlendog (talk). Self nom at 03:34, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Bobby Gregg – Rlendog (give) (tag)

• ALT1 ... that Simon & Garfunkel did not know that Bobby Gregg was the drummer on their #1 single "Sound of Silence"? Rlendog (talk) 01:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to give this a weak no, with the belief that it's easily correctable. Most of this looks good. Article >1500 chars; timing correct; both hooks above <200 chars; article has a nice range of sources for a new article.

That's not to say it isn't easy to find many more quality secondary sources, just on the web alone. The nominator should strongly think about beefing up his/her references, since Bobby Gregg has been written about by a number of reputable sources. Also this one is totally inappropriate under WP:SPS; it and all its citations should be stripped from the article). Another thing that's troubling is that I don't have access to that source (the book, Bob Dylan Highway 61 Revisited). I'm not sure that many other editors will actually have the chance to verify the hook either. So I'm not sure what we do in this case. Can we AGF an English-language source?

That said, I'm really giving a weak no here because the original hook isn't in-line cited in the article. (The individual parts are. There's an inline for being the drummer on "SOS" and an inline for being the drummer on "LARS", but not a citation for the whole thing together. And the same thing, goes for the ALT1 statement. It, too, is the combination of two statements, though apparently both from the same source. And ALT2, though catchy, is a bit unclear as to what is the topic of the DYK because Bobby Gregg isn't the subject of the sentence. Finally, ALT1 is ambiguous as to time. When did they not know this? Just when they were recording it? Until the song's principal period of fame was over? Until this WIkipedia article was written? It's interesting, but kinda vague — perhaps because it is the amalgamation of two separate statements from a source.

Seems to me that the easiest, best thing is to pull a hook from his work with Dylan, since that's the major focus of the article. So how about:

• ALT2 ... that drummer Bobby Gregg's distinctive snare shot opens Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone"? (nominator can also include this excellent secondary source to directly reference the hook: Sounes, Howard. Down the Highway: The Life of Bob Dylan. p. 179.) It's simple, and arguably not quite as interesting as ALT1, but it's completely unassailable and it tells the reader precisely where to look for an instance of his drumming skill. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 18:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• I don't have a problem with ALT2. I was actually considering something just like that, but felt the other two were more interesting. But to address the issues raised:

1. I had assumed that the problematic reference was an official Band site. I could be wrong, and if so the references can be removed. But little in the article relies on that source alone (more than half the facts that use this source already contain a second source, and most of the others would not be difficult to replace), any facts without a second source are hardly controversial, and none of the facts in the proposed hooks rely on that source. So even if we assume that those facts that rely on the potentially problematic source alone are unsourced, that would hardly disqualify these hooks from DYK.
2. I am not aware of any requirement to use online sources for the hook. The reason for the AGF verification is precisely to allow offline sources.
3. I am not aware of any rule preventing hooks from combining multiple sourced facts. I am pretty sure I have done so in the past, so if there is such a rule it must be a new one.
4. It is true that ALT1 is a little ambiguous as to when Simon & Garfunkel didn't know about Gregg drumming on their song. That is intentional, in order to hook the reader. It is true, somewhat surprising, and hopefully encourages the reader to click onto the article to find out what actually happened. Someone (I believe User:Balloonman but I could be wrong) wrote an essay the benefits of using such hooks. Rlendog (talk) 20:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Ballblazer Champions

• ... that the 1997 video game Ballblazer Champions was a remake of the 1985 video game Ballblazer that was released for the Commodore 64 and Atari consoles?

Created by MuZemike (talk). Self nom at 02:31, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Ballblazer Champions – MuZemike (give) (tag)

Education for Leisure

• ... that British Poet Laureate Carol Ann Duffy's poem Education for Leisure was removed from study at GCSE level due to concerns about teenage knife crime?

Created by user:Francium12

• Comment - Fairly topical with exam results out this week and next Francium12 (talk) 17:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 16

Republic of Loose

• ... that Sinéad O'Connor has requested membership of Republic of Loose (pictured), a band once described as "the most exciting" since Oasis by that band's manager?

5x expanded by Candlewicke (talk) and RavensFists (talk). Nominated by Candlewicke at 21:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Since the request was made a year ago have Republic of Loose accepted? It seems like nothing came of it... Francium12 (talk) 10:10, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
• Is there a better hook? There is a good one relating to Irish airplay in the article Francium12 (talk) 10:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• How about removing the first part and using the second part then? It may not have happened but she still spoke of it. --candle•wicke 10:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• The band manager praising a band he represents? Makes the group sound like a child only a mother could love. --Allen3 ^talk 10:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• What do you mean? He wasn't the manager of this band. --candle•wicke 10:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• That's another problem with the hook - it is unclear as to whether the manager of Oasis, O'Connor or Republic of Loose is being quoted Francium12 (talk) 14:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Franciszek Przysiężniak

• ... that after his pregnant wife was murdered by the communist Polish secret police Franciszek Przysiężniak organized a partisan unit which fought one of the largest battles of the anti-communist resistance?

Created/expanded by Radeksz (talk). Self nom at 23:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Cynthia Wade

• ... that Freeheld is an Academy Award winning documentary by Cynthia Wade that follows a New Jersey detective fighting for the right to pass on her pension to her female domestic partner?

Created by Belovedfreak (talk). Self nom at 13:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Cynthia Wade – Belovedfreak (give) (tag)

• Cynthia Wade is new, Freeheld has 5x expansion. --BelovedFreak 13:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

John Heriot (journalist)

• ... that John Heriot, a late-eighteenth century British journalist, was secretly funded to publish two pro-government newspapers?

Created by Shimgray (talk). Self nom at 22:09, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   John Heriot (journalist) – Shimgray (give) (tag)

• The Sun looks like it is one of the pro-government papers, but which is the other one. I don't think it is explicitly stated within the article. NW (Talk) 00:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• It's the True Briton, but now that you mention it, it doesn't seem to be entirely borne out by the sources either. I'll dig a bit. Shimgray | talk | 00:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
• ...and a source found which calls it the government's "most loyalist paper ... funded by the Treasury". So footnoted! Shimgray | talk | 00:44, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Great! Just one question then before I approve it: Are there no page numbers to add to the footnotes? NW (Talk) 01:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Done for the Annual Biography; the others are from unpaginated online editions. Shimgray | talk | 13:26, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Looks great! NW (Talk) 15:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Battle of the Samichon River

• ... that Australian troops fought their last battle of the Korean War just hours before the ceasefire, fighting off numerous Chinese attacks during the Battle of the Samichon River between 24−26 July 1953?

Created by Anotherclown (talk). Self nom at 11:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Battle of the Samichon River – Anotherclown (give) (tag)

Kenneth Bacon

• ... that Kenneth Bacon (pictured) became president of Refugees International in 2001, having been sensitized to the refugee issue while visiting the Balkans in the aftermath of the Kosovo War as Pentagon spokesman?

Created by Alansohn (talk). Self nom at 01:46, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Kenneth Bacon – Alansohn (give) (tag)

• ALT 1... that Kenneth Bacon (pictured), a former spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Defense, served as president of Refugees International until his death in 2009? APK that's not my name 08:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
• Length and creation date check out and both hooks are cited appropriately. --Slp1 (talk) 17:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

R.D. Smith

• ... that R.D. Smith, the BBC radio producer husband of Olivia Manning immortalised as Guy Pringle in her Fortunes of War novels, was identified as a Soviet spy by MI5?

Created by Slp1 (talk). Self nom at 21:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   R.D. Smith – Slp1 (give) (tag)

• "immortalized"? Sounds like cancer cells kept in a medical research lab. --74.13.124.38 (talk) 01:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• or someone from a Greek legend?!! I agree in a way, but it is also a nice short way describing the situation, per [5] But if people prefer, it could be:

... that R.D. Smith, the BBC radio producer husband of Olivia Manning and model for Guy Pringle in her Fortunes of War novels, was identified as a Soviet spy by MI5? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slp1 (talk • contribs) 07:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Labour Party of Indonesia

• ... that the first Indonesian Minister of Labour S.K. Trimurti was a leader of the Labour Party of Indonesia?

Created by Soman (talk). Self nom at 15:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Labour Party of Indonesia – Soman (give) (tag)

• The article says she was the leader of the women's wing of the party, and not of the party itself. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 07:56, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• The article says she was on the Executive of the party, i.e. being a leader of the party. --Soman (talk) 08:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• Saying she was a leader gives the wrong impression that she was the party leader. Being the party leader and being a member of the executive council/committee are two different things. I think the hook should be reworded so that this is clear. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 08:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Interlace (visual arts)

• ... that the interlace decorations in the Book of Kells (detail pictured) combine ribbon-like knotwork and animal style motifs?

Created by PKM (talk). Self nom at 00:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Interlace (visual arts) – PKM (give) (tag)

• Age, length, hook ref all check out- fabulous pictures. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Mao Amin

• ... that Mao Amin (b. 1962), known by the "honorific title" of Dajieda ("Big Sister"), "was one of China's most famous and senior female pop stars" by "the mid-1990s."?

Created by A Nobody (talk). Self nom at 23:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Mao Amin – A Nobody (give) (tag)

• A bit overboard on the quoting? Long Shrift (talk) 00:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Fixed sp. "honorific".--Wetman (talk) 07:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Rix Robinson

• ... that Rix Robinson's bill for women's suffrage was defeated during the drafting of the Michigan Constitution of 1850, but a bill to secure property rights for married women did pass?

Created by Josette (talk). Nominated by Lar (talk) at 22:01, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Rix Robinson – Josette (give) (tag)
•   Nom credit: Lar (give)

• comment: Looks good on length, citation and hook. But neither the article nor the hook are clear whether Rix had anything to do with the second bill. Did he? It would be good to spell it out; if he didn't, I think that the hook should be reworked either to remove second bill, or to put more emphasis on the constitution and less on Robinson.--Slp1 (talk) 12:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• PS This other ref [6], doesn't link him to the second bill, in any case.--Slp1 (talk) 13:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• On review, I think it's likely the authors of the refs wished he had something to do with it, but you're right, the refs don't directly support his having anything to do with it. Emphasizing the constitution probably is the wrong direction to go... Let's thus drop the subordinate clause to give this alt hook:

alt ... that Rix Robinson's bill for women's suffrage was defeated during the drafting of the Michigan Constitution of 1850? ++Lar: t/c 13:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

George Leese

• ... that George "Snatchem" Leese was a member of the Slaughter House Gang who was known for being the official "bloodsucker" at prize fights in New York?

• Comment: Article was created through AFC. It had 1075 characters at the time of creation, and I have added some more info to it and is now just past the 1500 line. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 07:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Created by 71.184.37.200 (talk), Chamal N (talk). Self nom at 07:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

•   George Leese – 71.184.37.200 (give) (tag)
•   George Leese – Chamal N (give) (tag)

Steve Titus

• ... that Steve Titus was wrongly convicted of rape where new exculpatory evidence was uncovered by a reporter, who won a Pulitzer Prize for the case and changed professions to an investigator to free wrongly convicted people? See below for replacement hook.

Created by Acme Plumbing (talk). Self nom at 03:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Steve Titus – Acme Plumbing (give) (tag)

• Too many problems with the article: (i) bare-url refs, many statements are unreferenced, (ii) article is on a person, yet it focuses only on a single event related to that person, (iii) the hook is unclear and too long (221 chars), (iv) the article has obvious style mistakes, (v) its notability is questionable. I would understand a novice, but the nominator has had all that explained to him previously. Materialscientist (talk) 05:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

The notability is that a Pulitzer Prize was awarded because of Steve Titus' story. That is much more notable than the "Murder of Eve Carson" article, which survived AFD. Steve Titus was more than one event. Rape is one, successful overturning of conviction is two, death of him soon afterwards and also the death of the policeman who may have tampered with evidence is three, and Pulitzer Prize is four. Bare-url refs are not illegal and the hook statement is referenced. I'll make a better hook and improve the article! My first and only DYK was awful to start out but got much, much better by the time the hook was published.

replacement hook:

• ... that the investigation of wrongly convicted rapist Steve Titus won a Pulitzer Prize and resulted in the reporter becoming an investigator of wrongly convicted people?

For the bare URL issue, see D2. Art LaPella (talk) 16:11, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

FIXED! Thank you for the information. The hook information is references properly and references have been added for each paragraph. The article is a work in progress and should be much improved by the time the hook is due. However, it is NOT complete garbage even now. Acme Plumbing (talk) 02:30, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not comfortable with "wrongly convicted rapist" - it makes it sound like he's actually a rapist who was wrongly convicted (of something else?). Perhaps reword? Shimgray | talk | 22:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree.. Acme Plumbing (talk) 01:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

replacement hook:

• ... that the investigation of Steve Titus and his erroneous rape conviction won a Pulitzer Prize and resulted in the reporter becoming an investigator of wrongly convicted people?

, anyone???? Acme Plumbing (talk) 02:05, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 15

August 2009 Egyptian hostage escape

• ... that on August 13, in a rare incident, Egyptian fishermen taken hostage by Somali pirates overpowered their captors and escaped, taking along four prisoners?

Created by Sherif9282 (talk). Self nom at 18:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

•   August 2009 Egyptian hostage escape – Sherif9282 (give) (tag)

• This article says "The incident was not unprecedented ..." May I ask why this article is in Wikipedia (an encyclopedia), instead of Wikinews (a collection of news stories)? --PFHLai (talk) 19:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand the relation between the quote you mentioned and your question. Nevertheless I see no reason for this sort of article to be included here. See this article for example. What are your objections, may I ask? --Sherif9282 (talk) 22:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

See WP:ITN/C#ITN candidates for August 15. --74.13.124.38 (talk) 00:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

This article is unlikely to make it to the main page under ITN, which is why I came here, to see if it can make it to the main page under DYK. This article fulfills the criteria for DYK.

PS: the article was moved to August 2009 Egyptian hostage escape. --Sherif9282 (talk) 07:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

It was more of a query then an objection. This was not an unprecedented incident. And it's not an important event in the fight / battle against piracy in Somalia. I'm not sure if this story is significant or notable enough to get a full article in the encyclopedia, rather than a paragraph or two in the table on List of ships attacked by Somali pirates. Wikipedia:Recentism? Better in Wikinews? I don't know. --PFHLai (talk) 05:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

IWGP Tag Team Championship

• ... that the IWGP Tag Team Championship is currently held by professional wrestlers from the Total Nonstop Action Wrestling promotion, instead of wrestlers from the New Japan Pro Wrestling (NJP) promotion, which owns it?

5x expanded by Wrestlinglover (talk). Self nom at 14:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

•   IWGP Tag Team Championship – Wrestlinglover (give) (tag)

4926/1267 = 3.9x expansion. Keep going! orangefreak³³ 04:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I'll see what I can do. I checked it before I submited, it should have been above the count, but I guess I was wrong.--WillC 04:25, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the article fails DYKcheck. Art LaPella (talk) 02:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I'm off by like 35 characters. I'm still working on it though.--WillC 05:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 14

Noirmoutier-en-l'Île

• ... that the French commune of Noirmoutier-en-l'Île and Île de Noirmoutier are home to the world's most expensive potatoes?

5x expanded by Dr. Blofeld (talk). Self nom at 09:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Noirmoutier-en-l'Île – Dr. Blofeld (give) (tag)

• Date, length, refs Ok. Nice article. Materialscientist (talk) 11:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
  • The Île de Noirmoutier does produce the world's most expensive potatoes if "Jeremy" of the most-expensive.net blog is to be believed, but he doesn't say they are produced in the commune of Noirmoutier-en-l'Île specifically; they may be produced in the southern two-thirds of the island. As Jeremy and the potato-growers' co-op disagree on other matters concerning the potato, I'd be inclined not to put too much faith in him anyway. Long Shrift (talk) 09:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I, too, have concerns about content sourced to someone only identified as "jeremy". I've been unable to find any reliable sources to corroborate a general "most expensive" claim, merely a specific claim relating to one auction one time, and that price was in Francs, not Euros (as "jeremy" has it). And Long Shrift's point about the difference between Île de Noirmoutier and Noirmoutier-en-l'Île is a good one, too. See sources such as these articles in Libération (source, source) and Le Nouvel Observateur (source). Uncle G (talk) 18:04, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on August 13

EPpy Awards

• ... that the EPpy Awards, which recognise journalism websites, are presented on the final day of the Interactive Newspaper Conference and Trade Show?

Created by Rambo's Revenge (talk). Self nom at 19:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

•   EPpy Awards – Rambo's Revenge (give) (tag)

• 783 characters of prose. Please expand to at least 1500. Shubinator (talk) 01:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

• Still just 783 characters of prose, far short of 1500 minimum, no action by any editor on this article in 9+ days. - Dravecky (talk) 09:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Karl Möckel

• ... that as the SS struggled to keep up sorting the valuables plundered from prisoners at Auschwitz, Karl Möckel (pictured) stated that fifteen to twenty suitcases of them were sent to the WVHA quarterly?

Created by WilliamH (talk). Self nom at 10:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Karl Möckel – WilliamH (give) (tag)

• Not enough citations. You need at least one citation at the end of every paragraph. Gatoclass (talk) 00:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

• Not according to any of the the rules. WilliamH (talk) 10:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

• The rules are not always up with current practices on this page. We now generally require DYK's to have a reasonable amount of citing, which usually means one cite per paragraph. It certainly isn't acceptable anymore to submit nominations with barely more than a cite to the hook fact. Gatoclass (talk) 22:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

• Actually, the first link you gave above says "the article in general should use inline, cited sources". We ask for at least one citation per paragraph. Shubinator (talk) 01:12, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
• And rule D6 says that a DYK article should not be "work in progress" (such as an article without proper referencing). Materialscientist (talk) 10:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Added more citations. -- Esemono (talk) 22:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks Esemono, but the article still lacks a cite for the paragraph stating that Mockel "contributed to the extermination of the Jews" etc. I think that when negative information is being provided about an individual, it's important we have a cite for that. Gatoclass (talk) 05:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Special occasion holding area

Note: Articles nominated for a special occasion should be nominated within five days of creation or expansion as usual (with the exception of April Fools'). Also, articles should be nominated at least five days before the occasion to give reviewers time to check the nomination.

Articles created/expanded for August 26

Terry O'Neill (feminist)

Hi. August 26 is Women's Equality Day, celebrating the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Ms. O'Neill heads the largest group of feminist women in the U.S. Self nom, new article. Thanks. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:34, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

• ... that Terry O'Neill (pictured), new president of the National Organization for Women (NOW), campaigned for grassroots feminists across the United States?

• Well-written article. But is there perhaps a more interesting hook? King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I think people fish for spousal abuse, which is there and perhaps to some people more interesting. I prefer the wide-ranging campaign (that was diametrically(sp?) opposed to a more youthful candidate who proposed using insider strategy and the Internet). Make sense? -SusanLesch (talk) 01:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

OK, then. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded for September 9

Washington State Route 21

• ... that the Keller Ferry (pictured), which operates as part of Washington State Route 21 was taken over by the Washington Department of Highways on September 1, 1930, although a cable ferry was operated during the early 1890's?

• ALT1:... that the current Keller Ferry on Washington State Route 21, the Martha S. (pictured), was launched on the eighteenth anniversary of the ferry's takeover by the Washington Department of Highways, which occured on September 1, 1930?
• Comment: Chosen for September 1, because of anniversary of takeover by Department of Highways.

5x expanded by ComputerGuy (talk). Self nom at 16:05, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

•   Washington State Route 21 – ComputerGuy (give) (tag)

• For the original hook, "a cable ferry was operated during the early 1890's" is not cited immediately after the fact, which is a requirement. For ALT1, it appears in the article that the Martha S. was launched on September 9, not September 1. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
  • ALT 2: ... that Martha S., the current Keller Ferry operating on Washington State Route 21, has been operating continually for 61 years since September 9, 1948? –CG 21:30, 14 August 2009 (UTC) (Also move date to September 9)

• Looks good. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:49, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

• ALT 3: ... that Martha S., the ferry connecting the northern and southern halves of Washington State Route 21, has been operating continually since September 9, 1948? --fixed "the" before ship name, overlink, copyedit. —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 15:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• Does this mean anniversaries of events are now acceptable, or has this always been the case? And are they limited to the history of roads or open to all? --candle•wicke 23:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• You can request a specific date for anything if the date is pertinent to the article. You can't use this as to "hold" noms though; over two weeks (between nomination and requested date) and we might ask questions. Shubinator (talk) 04:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

See also

• User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).