User talk:Blablaaa

sandbox Prokhorovka

If you are happy with the casualty sections, we can move on to Prokhorovka if you wish. Dapi89 (talk) 19:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Just put in what you have into the section, but remember to provide citations from Frieser and whoever you are quoting. This section already has an article of its own, so I suggest this one is kept short and the key events discussed briefly only. Dapi89 (talk) 10:41, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

You cannot dispute the facts presented by the sources. This is the first problem we had. What you want to do is ignore Soviet operational intent and strategy (and tactics) that worked, and have this section filled with stats about how many tank kills the Germans obtained. This is the very definition of bias. The sub-article is okay as it is. You can mention losses here if you like, but the narrative at present is correct. It focuses on operations and how they related to and effected the strategy of both sides. You can post the losses below the section if you like and I will incorporate them into the article. Dapi89 (talk) 17:23, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

If you have issues about the way the battle was fought (tank ramming), then let me know what source you have that disputes it and I will put it in. Dapi89 (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Please dont write thing like everybody will see the tactical skill of soviet army. It is highly suggestive of bias. Nobody is disputing German tactical experience was higher, but operational art and strategy are more important. Tactics are the least important aspect of military art. Dapi89 (talk) 17:49, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

That comment suggests you know little about military science. That was the very strategy that brought the Red Army victory. Attacking on a broad front, stretching German resources and employing deception to catch German mobile reserves off balance. The Germans played right into Soviet hands by using elastic defence against Soviet deep battle. Dapi89 (talk) 17:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

You seem to think that by lauding Soviet operational methods I am attacking the Germans' ability - I am not. In Operations and Strategy the Germans were out thought. At the tactical end, I believe the Germans always had the edge. But like I said, tactics are the least important. Dapi89 (talk) 18:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

No, you cannot delete information because it may come from a source you do not like. Quote your own sources, but do not remove others you personally don't like. If you have contradicting sources then these can be mentioned in the article. You cannot decide for your self what should be included - it is selective editing. Dapi89 (talk) 18:28, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, of course. The threshold for inclusion is verifiability. All sources are to be included not selected. Dapi89 (talk) 18:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Bergstrom doesn't say. And he doesn't have to. He is a verifiable source. You have got to stop thinking your sources are the only correct ones. I have to go now. I will converse more tomorrow (my time is not limitless. Dapi89 (talk) 19:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I have asked you to stick to one section at a time. Please don't edit other sections until the Prokhorovka one is finished. Second, Respect the sources! I don't criticise yours, so don't criticise mine. Stop mocking them. Personal opinions are not important. Neither is the anything that authors have to say about each other. Just state the sources that all you need to do. Dapi89 (talk) 13:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, as I keep saying we merge the two together

We write the version of events as is commonly known. We then qualify it by mentioning that German accounts of the battle (Frieser) deny that it was fought tank-to-tank, i/e no ramming etc. Then explain the German version of events. Dapi89 (talk) 11:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

updating the section

Can you give me references for Frieser regarding the German accounts refuting the nature of the fighting? Dapi89 (talk) 17:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I must press you for the citations for Prokhorovka. Dapi89 (talk) 17:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Battle_of_Prokhorovka. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Please cease fabricating statistics and attributing them to sources that are less commonly accepted and/or debunked —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senor Freebie (talk • contribs) 04:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Orsha

Yes, I have some information on this. What's the problem? Dapi89 (talk) 15:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

This is a rather large topic. Are you refering to the Battle of Smolensk (1943)? Dapi89 (talk) 19:11, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah. Well it is a huge topic. In terms of manpower reserves both sides were starting struggle. The Soviet losses of 1941-42 meant that casualties had to be better managed. Much effort was placed on deception (Maskirovka). The numerical advantage enjoyed had been, in Glantz' words "frittered away" or wasted. According to Glantz, the average Soviet division was down to 2,000 men per division. In 1943 a divison would hold roughly 7,000. The Germans were also declining. It would all depend on who could out manoeuvre the other. The numerical advantage enjoyed on the battlefield was a result of concentrating forces in the area rather than overall superiority.

For this reason most of the 'offensive' action in the centre of the front was limited. The target in the winter 43-44 was to liberate the Ukraine. Operations against AGC were mainly diversions (a part of Maskirovka) to enable greater success in the south by diverting German mobile reserves there - this was all down to casualty management. Also, the south offered the quickest route into the Crimea, and Romania. Such success would undermine the Axis alliance (who were already starting to get nervous). This was basically the general strategy for the Red Army. Dapi89 (talk) 19:55, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

No it is not wrong. The Soviets had severe manpower shortages. In 1944 I recall civilians/children/women of all ages being sent to the factories to free more manpower reserves for combat in 1944.

At Kursk, the Soviets had superiority in numbers because they concentrated their strength in such a small area (They did not have, as is commonly assumed, an infinite number of men up and down the front). Dapi89 (talk) 20:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

In February various, I think 7-9, strategic operations aground Luga and Vitebsk and Orsha were undertaken by the 1st Baltic Front. They did lift the siege on Leningrad but failed to make much ground into Belorussia (losing 200,000). ACG would have to wait until 1944 for its turn. So yes, operations in the centre were not serious operations from November 1943 until June 1944. Dapi89 (talk) 20:30, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Have a look at this: Strategic operations of the Red Army in World War II. Dapi89 (talk) 20:35, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect. That led to Operation Bagration, a great success. I'm not sure what Frieser is getting at. Not a lot of offensives were conducted against AGC between November 1943 and May 1944. Dapi89 (talk) 21:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

There were no serious offensives directed at AGC after the Battle of Kiev. 3 October 1943 - 22 June 1944 AGC was pretty much idle. The main Soviet offensives were directed at AGN and AGS. AGN won some defensive battles near Leningrad in the Baltic in 1944, but that is it. Soviet offesnives were pretty much successful in the centre and south in 1944-45. Dapi89 (talk) 17:42, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you're mistaken. No such operation took place in 1943. The Byelorussian Strategic Offensive took place in 1944. Dapi89 (talk) 22:33, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Byelorussian Strategic Offensive (1943)

I see you meant this one. But it doesn't change the fact these were Maskirovka offensives designed to draw German forces from the south. Buy David Glantz' Soviet Military Deception in the Second World War. Dapi89 (talk) 12:44, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Come now. You know what is being said to you. They were operational and tactical German sucesses, but strategy is what is important here. Maskrivoka is strategy-based manoeuvre. You try to breakthrough, but if you dont it is no big deal. The purpose was to tie down German forces. The same can be said of limited German attacks against Moscow in 1942, to mask their intentions to launch blau to Stalingrad. This was the same thing. Dapi89 (talk) 17:44, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Referencing

Hi. Thanks for adding a reference at the Battle of the Bulge article, but as it only gave the last name and year (Cooper, 1978), it's still a bit ambiguous as to which book it's referring to. Other citations give only author's last name and date, but this is because they're linked to one of the references in the Bibliography section using Harvard referencing. There isn't currently a book with an author called Cooper, so if you could add in the details of the citation (i.e. title, maybe even ISBN and publisher), I would appreciate it (or you could even just tell me and I'll do it for you). Thanks, Lord Spongefrog, (I am Czar of all Russias!) 20:52, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for that. Merry Christmas, Lord Spongefrog, (I am Czar of all Russias!) 21:00, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 00:35, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Perch

You added something to a passage giving 7th Armd Div and 50th Inf Div losses for June 1944. The 50th Inf Div was about twice the size of a normal division so its 'loss rate' is about 50% lower than the nominal rate.Keith-264 (talk) 11:32, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Advice/Perch

Just a quick note: be careful what you say, block-shopping isn't clever if you havn't got a legitimate excuse. I don't want you to get blocked before you bring back those citations! Please read this Dapi89 (talk) 20:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC):

Hello, Blablaaa! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! - FWiW Dapi89 (talk) 20:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC).(UTC) talk 13:26, (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

503rd heavy tank battalion (Germany)

Please provide references to your additions to 503rd heavy tank battalion (Germany). Just because it is already sorely lacking them doesn't mean that your additions shouldn't have any. (Hohum ^@) 01:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Sachs

Thanks for letting everyone know who's tank it was but do you have a source, as Trew doesnt support it iirc - i will check later on though just to double check if he mentions the commanders name however.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 10:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Am pretty sure i have some info on the ramming inncident; when i get round to editing the article i will add something in on it if i find the ref that is - i think there is also a photo too.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 16:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Couldnt find it on IWM; sure there is a photo in one of the books i have on the subject i shuld be able to track it down with some luck.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 21:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Aircraft

A very difficult question. I have some information. I'll look. Dapi89 (talk) 11:46, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Re: Goodwood

Well i noted he went from talking about Goodwood and then comparing it to Charnwood as well as comparing the losses I Corps suffered in each operation. Just to make sure i double checked the information there with that he mentioned on Charnwood and the figures matched up.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 20:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Windsor

The source that 17 tanks were knocked out? The guys there are trying to get the article moved up the rankings; the less work to do the better ;)--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 16:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Battle of Debrecen

Please do not arbitrarily delete comments from the article or its footnotes because of your opinion regarding sources. Look: The Soviet Official History's take on the Axis losses is not used in the information box at the top of the article -- it is only stated in a footnote so that readers can see how much variation there is in various claims regarding casualty figures. How a reader chooses to consider those claims is their business; by deleting the footnote, you are acting as a censor -- which is nobody's role on Wikipedia. I have opened a discussion on the talk page of the article to discuss sources. If you have comments about any of the sources, that is a good place to discuss them. W. B. Wilson (talk) 06:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Stop changing the figures -- they are footnotes only. You have your opinion on these figures -- but your opinion is not good enough reason to censor information in Wikipedia that you do not like. Now -- you can discuss this on the article page as I suggested, or we can get admins involved because your approach to editing is unproductive, and apparently, this is your normal way of approaching edits. W. B. Wilson (talk) 07:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

What I do not understand is that I have provided a source -- and you are only giving me your opinion as justification for deleting material. I understand you are skeptical about the source -- guess what, I am too. But that is not the point. The point is that casualty figures for all battles are disputed and it is informative for readers to see how widely they can vary. The figures used by Glantz (actually taken from a Russian source) are those used in the information box and those figures in the information box are what 99.9% of the readers will see in any case. You are deleting information without any reason other than that you don't like it -- please stop doing that. I am not pushing the Soviet official figures on anyone, I am simply putting them in a footnote for those who have more interest in the topic of the casualties to consider. Your approach is combative -- try discussing this on the article's Talk Page instead of assuming that others have no idea of what they're doing and arbitrarily deleting information. W. B. Wilson (talk) 07:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

This is the English language Wikipedia. I can see we will not come to agreement, even on the point of discussing changes before they are made. I have asked an admin to look at this as a third party because our constant reversions to the article won't help anything. Tschüß, W. B. Wilson (talk) 07:53, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Blahlaaa, look closely at notes 5 and 6. Note 5 specifically says the data is drawn from the GErman official history. Note 6 provides as a extra illuminating reference. It lists both 1950s German and Soviet figures. Nowhere is Krisholeev (excuse my horrific spelling) mentioned. The main reference is Glantz - if you wish to say that he is using Krisholeev, you will have to cite this. Buckshot06 (talk) 07:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

My apologies. Sorry, yes, the German official history was indeed 2007. This is correctly cited as note 5. Do you understand now that note 6 provides, for the comparison of any interested reader who may wish to delve further, the compared numbers of the two official histories? There is no statement of authenticity intended. Buckshot06 (talk) 08:09, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

If you wish to emphasise that, your proper course of action is to add a carefully worded note to the bibliographical reference for the Ustinov Soviet official history at the bottom of the article. Right after the reference. Something like 'Immediately postwar Soviet official figures may be unreliable. More recent scholarship with declassified figures includes ..Krisholeev' or whoever you wish to add. Buckshot06 (talk) 08:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

It's your opinion on the Soviet official history's worth that is at the core of this. Only you are vehement about it. If you do not wish to indicate that it may be unreliable, no-one can do much more. Buckshot06 (talk) 08:40, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

It is not 'against the rules.' The Soviet official history, as an official government document, is a WP:Reliable Source. Now, you and I know that propaganda meant figures were overestimated, but an official history remains, in whatever circumstances, an RS. Again, the numbers are included for comparison only. I suggest you go and find some more up to date Soviet official sources, if you wish, and add them - but even then, we would retain the contemporary figures as well. Each individual can decide to use them as they like. It would help if you indicated that the contemporary official histories may be biased, but if you do not wish to, that's your decision. Buckshot06 (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Blocked for one week

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for disruptive editing. Please stop. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below. Nick-D (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I have implemented this one week block for the following reasons:

• You are edit warring in the Battle of Debrecen article (eg, in this, this and this edits) and are making aggressive comments on the article's talk page and the talk pages of other involved editors (these edits are some examples; I could highlight many more like them [1], [2] (not polite when translated through either Google Translate or Babelfish), [3], [4] and [5])
• You are attempting to use the Talk:Defense of the Reich page as a forum to discuss your personal views on this topic despite editors there asking you not to.
• You have returned to making uncivil comments despite your previous warnings and blocks (in addition to the rude comments the the discussions I've noted above, I'd also highlight this and this as being particularly aggressive)

You have been warned and blocked previously for uncivil comments and have been repeatedly warned about aggressively editing articles, particularly in relation to disagreements over figures, yet are continuing this behaviour. Nick-D (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

iam not sure if its necessary to block me for one week. regarding the edit warring my edit were not in one day and not really concerning the content. other users used a ref behind numbers to bring other numbers this was not correct, u can use a note for it but not a ref because a ref is for citing i explained this. and after this the other admin changed this because i was correct, please check. and i didnt want to edit warring then despite my concern about the content the major problem was the wrong using of the ref funtion ( i explaind in edit log and on mulitple talk pages) . regarding the talk page which i used as "forum" i wrote their multiple times that i search for historian which can be included to support this opinion. i said the article can be improved because its not neutral user Hohum supported this and brought historians. i not only discusses my opinion i tried to motivate others to bring other historians because i thought this sections are not balanced. i also tried to improve the section with saying whats out of context for example. while i did this i was making jokes and had "fun" i had many contact with both users before ... iam note sure if this is so bad, i guess i started simply a discussion which will improv the article. regarding the incivil point i explained buckshot that i dont see the soviet "official" history as reliable source, and that i will bring this on discussion board for reliable sources like i did before with other books... . i did dozens of edits last days and i want to go further. iam not really sure it is necessary to block me for one week, i didnt want to edit warring i didnt want to make forum :-). cheers update when the checking admin thinks the block is justyfied he maybe thinks about the week. maybe 5 hours are enough. joke... 48 hours?Blablaaa (talk) 17:30, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Decline reason:

You talked your way out of your last block this way, it's not going to work this time. And one week is pretty light for someone who was just unblocked nine days ago for pretty much the same thing. You still don't seem to even understand why edit warring is not allowed, why we expect editors to be civil, or why we require that talk page comments be in English. Expect to keep getting blocked for longer and longer periods until you have corrected these problems. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

yeah ok u call it edit warring even when a user breaks the guidelines of wiki and another fixes this, cool. i didnt talked me out of an earlier block, check facts before u say something please.... Blablaaa (talk) 18:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

The one and only exception to the edit warring policy is reverting blatant vandalism. For everything else, you should request page protection and/or pursue dispute resolution. As I said, until you can understand and abide by this you can expect to keep getting blocked for it. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:48, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

help

{{helpme}}

can i edit so called sandboxes while iam blocked? if yes, how? Blablaaa (talk) 18:08, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Nope, I'm afraid you can't edit user subpages while blocked, only your user talk (although that can be revoked). Regards, Spitfire^Tally-ho! 18:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Kursk

You should be more careful about what you say from now on. The comments left on my page are offensive and unfounded. Everything I said holds true. To the last comment: You have misquoted again. The source (p. 249) says 16-17 AUGUST , not July. And the battle was a relief operation to prevent army group Kempf from being destroyed/encircled. Days later the Germans were forced to withdraw, as Konev was a about to pinch of the links south of the city Kahrkov. The III SS Corps tried to pinch off the salient containing the 6th Guards, using the GDD, 7 and 19 PDs. It failed and the German divs were whittled down to 100 T & SPGs. The 57 infantry division collapsed and its survivors ran away. The 255 ID and 57 ID had only 3,336 and 1,791 men left respectively. Converging pincers compelled the Germans to retreat or be destroyed. The Soviets captured the city days later - this constitutes a VICTORY. The German divisions were subjected to a "bloodletting they could no longer withstand". The 11 PD was left with just 820 PzGr'S, 15 Tanks and 4 guns while the 19PD had 760 PzGr's and 7 tanks. Totenkopf and Das Reich fielded only 61 and 55 tanks between them - p. 252. This is what Glantz says.

I will also add that your quotations, as they have been prior, are selective. This much is painfully obvious.

I expect an apology. Dapi89 (talk) 22:22, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

i wrote his complete sentences out of his books and your quotations from the kursk article are saved. Blablaaa (talk) 00:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

your quote where u cited glantz *On 11 August, the 1st Tank Army engaged Waffen SS units near Bogodukhov, 30 kilometres northwest of Kharkov. Initially the Germans stopped the advance, "mauling" three brigades of the 1st Tank Army. The 5th Guards Army sent reinforcements, and between 13 and 17 August the Germans were fought to a stalemate. For the first time a major German counter offensive had failed to destroy a Soviet exploitation force. Kharkov fell on 28 August. The battle is usually referred to as the Fouth Battle of Kharkov by the Germans and Belgorod-Kharkov offensive operation by the Soviets"

this is glantz exact statement :"finally on 16-17 august the III panzercorps succeeded in pushing the .... back and destroying the offensive power of both red armies" , i will check your other statements too. i hope this doesnt sound offense. best regardsBlablaaa (talk) 00:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

NO. You are ignoring all the information to the left and right. This is selective editing. IT IS YOUR STATEMENTS THAT NEED CHECKING, NOT MINE.Dapi89 (talk) 13:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

iam not sure if u understood where the battle between the two ss division took place, not next to kharkov, the counterattack was succeeded read glantz exact words Blablaaa (talk) 00:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

looking the facts, u seem to have wrote something what glantz simply not said, he never said the ss division where fought to a stalemate he simply said they succedded and destroyed the comabt power of two soviet armies. i must admit that i didnt read everythinh so maybe u are quoting something else, i will track it down. like the other statements Blablaaa (talk) 00:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

If you continue to make such statements to me or other editors you are going to find yourself blocked again. Dapi89 (talk) 13:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

what ? i said i didnt read the complete book and your statements are maybe correct. and i will search. whats wrong here? Blablaaa (talk) 17:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

here this is your quote : "Glantz asserts the German defeat at Kursk did not come about by the "Often-exaggerated numerical superiority" of the Soviet armed forces." i think this is your text , u say what glantz means. but glantz final words regarding the failure of zitdalle are this: ""When the worst came, Soviet numerical superiority, the stubborn tenacity of sobiet soldiers, the improved combat skill of commanders and the soviets ability to sustain staggering losses spelled doom for Citadelle" . this are glantz exact words. iam not explaining my opinion i only compare your statements with glantz real words... Blablaaa (talk) 00:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

That is not from his book The Battle of Kursk. IT comes from When Titans Clash, pp. 175-176; 'Kursk to the Dnepr', "This grim situation did not arise solely because of Hitler's errors nor even because of the often-exaggerated numerical superiority of the Soviet armed forces". Furthermore, I did not deny the Soviet numerical superiority. I did say that that superiority was because the Soviets concentrated their forces in one particular region. I also said, as Glantz, that numerical superiority WAS NOT THE ONLY advantage. So Glantz has made clear he holds the same opinion.

I believe I have done all I can to work with you, but it is clear to me this only going to end in one way. Ignore what others have said at your peril. 13:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

u took one sentence out of his book where he said something about numerical superiority and asserts that he glantz said numerical superiority was not significant????? while in the over all conclusions he says numerical superiority was significant. u claim glantz disputes frieser and then u mix up his words. u claim the major cause is the soviet improved skill. in his book about kursk ( his newest book ) he says their are multiple reason ( it would be strange if he claims what usaid). as the first reason he takes numerical superiority. can u please delete your statements from the kursk article? dont understand why u sound so aggressiv i explained kindly thta your statements look a bit "strange". what shall i do ? ignore that u mixed his words in other context? Blablaaa (talk) 17:50, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Greetings

First off, I regret that our communication regarding Battle of Debrecen was laden with conflict. Second, I have added some statements to the brief note about the Soviet official history claims that caution the reader as to the source as well as warning that games may have been played with the material for the purpose of spreading propaganda. Please note that I am also skeptical of Soviet (and Nazi/SS) sources -- but, I much prefer inclusion of material to exclusion of material, especially in the case of official works.
I was not trying to be sneaky when I changed the citations you made referring to Ungvary's work in the German official history -- it was just the style you chose (Ungvary, p. 876) did not agree with the existing citations in the article that pointed to the German official history. Please note the German official history was identified with its complete title in the "references" section of the article and I thought that sufficed to identify the work that was being cited.
About the German official history -- I think it is a solid piece of work, but it also has its weaknesses. One of the biggest in this regard is the decision of those producing the history that they will not put out a volume describing the ground operations in Germany in 1945 -- a mistake in my opinion since there are very few works available that cover the entire scope of operations in Germany in 1945 -- and the German view of these operations is especially needed in this case.
About the Soviet official history -- produced in 1978, by the way, not the Stalinist era of the 1950's. It is surprisingly good for military history -- and the information presented is not so much distorted as it is incomplete. The Soviets chose to omit information when it made them look bad, as in their not discussing Soviet losses for the Battle of Debrecen. The work does present propaganda when it comes to economic or social themes -- hardly surprising for a Soviet Communist product. You can obtain this work in German, it was available a few years ago and was originally printed in the DDR in 1981.
Now, Blablaaa, I have just gone a long way to explain my view on these matters. My goal is to let you know I am willing to work with you. You should understand, however, that outright deletion of material in Wikipedia is -not- a good way of making changes to the articles and that lecturing other editors only promotes conflict. I fully admit my own approach to you could have been less confrontational. I hope you take these comments in the good spirit they are intended. MfG, W. B. Wilson (talk) 18:50, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

iam blocked because i did a correct edit than i reverted your edit and u reverted again because u insisted on this. i explained that its not correct to do this statement in a ref . nevertheless u reverted... . now when i look the article again: i see that now its in a note how i explained!!! because another admin edited it this way ...

regarding soviet "propaganda" books. they are always wrong with axis casualties. they had no access to german archives and if they had they wouldnt use them, so every axis casualties is an wartime estimation. and this estimations are always wrong . sometimes they exceed the german troops which were involded. look the tank casualties this are more destroyed tanks then the entire heeresgruppe had. this is a fact. i tried to explain. never use soviet figures for german casualties while better data is available.... . Blablaaa (talk) 19:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Blablaaa -- please stop for a moment. First: You are wrong about the Soviets not having access to German archives -- because the Red Army overran a lot of Germany in 1945 and captured many German archives in the process. Not all of them, but they certainly got their share.

Second: No one is "using Soviet figures while better data is available" -- the only thing that has happened is that note has been made of the Soviet figures and I even provided an explanation that the figures may be suspect. The figures listed in the article's information box are from various sources, but the Soviet official history figures are NOT used in the information box, so please stop suggesting that this is the case.

Third: Your edit was not "correct" because it was deletion of material based on your opinion of a source. Believe me -- it is VERY much easier to discuss your ideas for changes on the article talk page and come to agreement with other editors than to just delete material and get into conflicts with other editors.

Fourth: That note about "information from totalitarian regimes" being suspect is a note that I put in, not an admin. I put the note in there because I happen to agree with you that Soviet sources can be inaccurate and deserve firm scrutiny. I am trying to meet you halfway on this issue, but it is frankly difficult because of your insistence that you are right and others are wrong -- may I suggest you try to work with me? W. B. Wilson (talk) 20:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

i have no problem with being wrong, but i wasnt, i deleted your ref. u used the ref wrong thats why its now a note like i suggested before... . your material wasnt "deleted" because u can take it out of the old version. it was possible that i take your text in a note, or u take the text in the note. but we both prefered to revert the other , this was may unclever of both. but iam blocked now and the text is in a note like i suggested. thats why i maybe sound a bit genervt. Blablaaa (talk) 20:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

We don't agree on a lot of things, but I very much agree with your comment "we both prefered to revert the other , this was may unclever of both". I at least hope this issue with the Debrecen article is at a point where we can both accept the current state of the article. MfG, W. B. Wilson (talk) 04:38, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

hm i dont see a reason to mention propaganda numbers, such lies exist for nearly every battle for both sides. to include them in all the articles brings no value for the reader... . thats why nobody includes german/british claims for downed aircraft in the box of Battle of Britain because they are wrong . if u put this note in the box than u "have to" put such statements in many boxes... . if u would try to add such note in a normandy article with german propaganda claims than u would be reverted within 4 minutes... . maybe u rethink this note. for example u could look up the german panzer numbers for all armygroups and than compare with the lost claim :-) .Blablaaa (talk) 05:48, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't argue that the Soviet numbers are better in this case. I believe, however, there is use in having readers exposed to how different casualty claims can be. Casualty statistics are notoriously disputed for many battles, and casual readers of military history may not be aware of that. I see no harm in the numbers being there since the cautionary statement is worded quite clearly. I'm not sure such additions to other articles would be reverted, but in the case of a particularly well-known topic like the Normandy landings, I would be sure to discuss the addition on the talk page of the article first to explain what my intent was. In my view, such informational notes do no harm as long the information in them is seen in the perspective of where it came from. As to your comment that such statements should be added to many of the casualty claims for various articles on battles ... well, you have a point, and really, it might serve as a useful "reality check" since casualty statistics can be so flawed. I think your comment about the tank/StG holdings of Heeresgruppe Süd versus the Soviet claims is valid and I have no problem with words to that effect as another informational note to the article. One item of information is missing -- do you have any sources that show how many armored fighting vehicles that HG Süd received from the start of October through the end of the battle? We know from Ungvary's work how many they had on 1 October 1944, and also there is information for how many were left over at the end of the battle, but I haven't seen information for vehicle deliveries anywhere -- although the German quotes for their own armor losses are probably accurate enough to make an estimate. I have to look at the initial forces involved and how the order of battle (Kriegsgliederung) changed during the battle. MfG, W. B. Wilson (talk) 16:26, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

warum hast du nen "ü" auf der tastatur? Blablaaa (talk) 17:32, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

? ALT 0252 = ü W. B. Wilson (talk) 18:01, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

wusste nicht das man mit nich deutscher tastatur nen ü machen kann Blablaaa (talk) 18:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

A useful resource for keyboard stuff MfG, W. B. Wilson (talk) 18:07, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

es gibt übrigens ein buch über die bodenkämpfe der letzten monateBlablaaa (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Have to admit I was wrong -- apparently Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg now includes volumes on the end in Germany (volume 10) -- I'm not sure why the announcement was made that the series would not include such a volume. It will be interesting to read these. W. B. Wilson (talk) 05:09, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Volume 10 part 1 Die militärische Niederwerfung der Wehrmacht Blablaaa (talk) 05:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Please don't post messages in German - this is the English language Wikipedia and talk page contributions need to be in this Wikipedia's language. Please see Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Good practices for guidance on this topic. Nick-D (talk) 06:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Charnwood

You know damn well Wood is not stating that figure - he is quoting an entire German report. The reports are well known to be unreliable and we have multiple sources showing that the total destroyed and damaged is well below that figure; you are inflating the losses for the fun of it!--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 21:56, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I find it funny how you argue the toss to the enth degree over the eastern front articles you can kicked up a fuss about, you kick up a fuss over BS figures proving a POV bais situation agaisnt Germany on Western Front articles yet you are doing the same but in the reverse situation....

As as been discussed to hell and back regarding the "British claims" in the VB article; Taylor is the only source that actually comes close to what you keep objecting to but he notes that that figure includes knocked out/destroyed/damaged tanks. Remeber you keep harping on that we should include damaged tank figures - Brevity, Crusader etc

The objection is not Wood, i havent said Wood is not relibable so please remove you silly strawman arguments from the debate. The page quoted is an entire German report that Wood has reproduced; the report alone (which are known to be unreliable (not the HISTORIAN or his BOOK)) claims the Germans destroyed this many. The Official Campaign history shows that 80 was the limit and that includes destroyed and damaged; a figure supported via other sources.

The fact you keep bringing up Goodwood shows that your attempting to prove a point via disruption (WP:POINT); but lets address this to shall we. We have an equal number of sources claiming both sides of the coin hence the range.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:09, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Your just not listening are you?

Your pushing a POV (highlighted by your obbession with this apparent bias attitute were we use British sources over German); we have multiple sources showing what the actual losses were (i.e. actually less than 80 because that includes damanged tanks) but you dont give a shit because you have an unreliable claim presented in a reliable work ... So you can get one over on the British 70 years down the line?

I suppose we should go and add all those "Sovietshit" figures in again because there in reliable sources arnt they?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Thats crap and you know it!

So have you added the Soviet figures back to those articles then eh?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I think you should go read Wikipedia:Gaming the system because thats all your doing...

Here you go again with your BS "you only use British books"; Dude the war ended 70 years ago ... get over it! Historians are trained individuals, regardless of their nationality, who attempt to tell the truth. So now your bitching about Reynolds - who supports the German report for the Goodwood loss of 75 tanks, also note that Reynolds mentions that the 11th Armoured Division's CO supports the loss of 75 tanks. HOWEVER we have an equal number of sources that place the losses higher.

The icing on the cake is that i have a French historian's book with an entire chapter by a German soldier, tank expert and historian .... and you moan about him too.

Your replies highlight the fact all you want to do is push POV. The fact you want to push POV highlights this. We have a concensus view from verifiable sources that place the extent of the losses at 80 (Wikipedia:Verifiability) yet you want to ignore this because a single source quotes a report where a claim is made. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources ....

Your POV pushing i suppose could even come under Wikipedia:Fringe theories if we wanted to play around with the definition...

My OPINON .... am not throwing my opinion about; we have several verifiable sources that confirm the extent of the British losses that outnumber a single German claim. Thats not opinion thats fact. You object to BS figures but you want to add this one in ... And you dont bitch about historians ... really? I think you should review your messages to me and your comments regarding Schiender.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:38, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I think ill "calm down a bit" when you decide to stop trying to throw POV around perfectly ok articles to carry on your agenda.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:39, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Do you own any of there books? You sprout all sorts of shit and cant back any of it up and on top of that ... all these historians are out to get you!

Nationality means squat! Get over yourself. Stop attempting to game the system...--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:43, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

So strawman argument after strawman argument eh? So we are suppose to add weight to an outnumbered fringe view .... why? Can you find any other sources that even support that figure?

The report that is provided is entitled "an estimate of the situation as a whole". The next page talks about the 30 odd Allied divisions in the beachhead and the 60 odd sitting in the UK, of which "50 could be transferred" to Europe "at any time" ... should we add this to the article too? We KNOW the number of tanks destroyed and numerous historians support the figure.

Look there not "my historians" you have to get this stupid notion out of your head ... its annoying. The repeated claims by yourself that i sit making crap up and picking and choosing is bloody rediculious ... do you have a single shred of proof to support said claim? At the end of the day the poor German POV out to get the German historians are usually the only ones with the figures. Why? How the hell should i know ... go ask them?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:52, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

BS and you know it!

Charnwood we have 3 trained historians, one of which was the official campaign historian who establish the losses at 80 tanks destroyed and dammaged. We then have source, a German intel report that includes incorrect information (not to mention are known for being iffy with the truth) that CLAIMS 103 tanks were destroyed. Its a fringe view that as far as i - or apprently you since you havent done any research on the subject or anything - is unsupported by any other sources.

We then have Goodwood - this being your strawman argument, go look it up - where we have the German intel report supported by a further source (a British historian who also calls upon a British divisional commander from the battle) that suggests one figure and an equal number of sources that place the figure higher. There is no undue weight.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

So now your introducing a new strawman argument; apparently also highlighting how your pushing your a POINT. An equal number of sources provind two seperate figures and lol both are British historians yet you jump to the lower figure automatically....intresting. Checking Buckley's sources we find that several others support said figure; including Reynolds who states he arrives at this figure from checking the 12th SS own records - he has been seen as a rather balanced view of the SS and ive actually seen comments that he is somewhat bais towards them i.e. support them.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:13, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice new strawman argument however you will note i have when he provides information i.e. CHARNWOOD....--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:14, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

If you bother to read; Trew (a British historian) claims the 12th SS records show 1 figure. Buckley claims a higher figure - his source being other secondary sources; one of which is Reynolds (A British historian) who has stated he based his figures off the 12th SS Records........--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

To clairfy Trew states the 12th SS Reported those losses; Reynolds based his figure off checking their actual records.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

HAHAHA of course he did not; me and Buckley are in cahoots and are out to get you!

But hang on your not suggesting that historians are lying again? Your not believing reliable sources .... you want to ignore them?

You have just argued yourself into a corner and now your trying to worm your way out i see... sad :(--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:26, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

What am i talking about? You argued yourself into a corner; you automatically jumped to the defense of the lowest figure. Highlighting your POV pushing. But at the same time the historian who provided that was a British one - who you were slagging off just before for being POV bashers who hate Germany. Then you automatically disblieve Buckley, when its shown his source is Reynolds you then suggest Reynolds never said such a thing.

As for Trew hs is a single source providing a fringe pov unsupported by anyone else, even Reynolds supports it and he went and anyalisied the German records to come up with his figures for German losses....

Stop attempting to push a point and game the system and i dont think we will have a problem.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:37, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

You go with the figure you trust ... which comes from an ENGLISHMAN??? yet you want to post a BS German figure into the article that adds nothing and misinforms the reader...

when we include german claims than its misinformation of the reader when we include british claims which exceed german intels than this ok because what? i would accept your point if u would only use intels for BOTH sides but u have diffenrent ways to handle casualties claims this says everything.... i say include all, british claims and german ones. can i edit now ? Blablaaa (talk) 23:45, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

OMG you just wont admit that your wrong and so badly too!

You jump to the defense of the lowest possible casualty figure for the Germans and decide that you dont believe two sources that provide a higher figure. There there, on the pages so get over it. But at the end of the day what is the point in throwing in another 3 sources that support the current range for German losses?

The German intel claim is wrong and we have numerous sources stating quite clearly that the British losses did not exceed a certain ammount; Woods figure, infact not his figure but a figure in a reproduced intel report, is over inflated. Simple as. Why wont you let that go, what do you have to prove?

Banging on about other articles is called a strawman argument, go look it up. In fact there is wiki poilcy that says just because it happens in other articles doesnt mean it has to happen in this one etc. But at the end of the day you beef is with the Goodwood figure - German and British sources support 75 tank losses - yet a bunch of other sources support a higher one. There equal there is no undue weight. The German intel report in regards to Charnwood is bogus, you know it, and the sources show it is.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:51, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Your reponse again highlights that you want to push a point, that you pushing POV and that you are ignoring everything.

3 sources id the exact extent of the British losses for Charnwood; 1 single incorrect primary source (presented in a secondary source) shows what the Germans claim.

The quip you are making is aimed at VB; which includes a mixture of British, French and German claims. You have banged on about the need to include tanks that are damanged (i.e. Crusader, Brevity) - said figure is included in the Charnwood figure - yet you have kicked up a fuss because Taylor notes that 14 tanks were destroyed or damaged. Henrie Marie notes 11 tanks destroyed and clearly states more were damaged.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:00, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

So you pushing a point you dont even believe in ???

Your asking to find consensus on the subject i think the fact that the various historians supporting a figure of around 80 destroyed and damamged tanks - and no other figure bar a single intel claim is currently on the table - highlights the historical consensus.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:20, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

So there is no editor consenus, no historian concensus, and you believe it to be a BS figure yet your going to add it?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Stop creating strawman arguments out of nothing! Are you joking about Reynolds ... go look at the British losses for Charnwood! At least attempt to support your rediciousl allagtions.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:30, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Should i highlight how you cant even establish what your own position is? One moment the historians used are all rubbish, inapporbiate, wrong, and bais out to get Germany. Next you state they are ok to use. Then you pick and choose between them. Now you are back to there all POV monsters trying to get one over on Germany.

I think you should realise ... or at least attempt to assume good faith that these professional men have done a good job (like you seem to partially accept Reynolds) and their nationality has nothing to do with it.

I mean likewise you essentially making the claim that am out to get you and Germany too; ive been there and had a whale of a time, the most amazing bunch of people i ever met - the hundred or so i bumped into and not a bad one in the bunch i met. I mean for christ sake the war ended 70 years ago and most of these latest books are done by trained professionals with access to every record imaginable.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with Wood....--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:37, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Right so were back to am out to get you ... ok do you have some sort of evidence that i have withheld information from articles on purpose? That i have picked and choosen what source to use and what not to use?

So apprently am also 3 seperate historians because my opinion is 80 tanks was the limit? Dont act so daft! Three historians have sourced 80 destroyed and knocked out tanks ... we have a single fringe view, a intel report suggesting more was knocked out but not supported by any other source. It is used within the article as the claim it is but numerous sources present the correct figure for the infobox.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:45, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

But you already have done ....--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:50, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Strawman argument - go do your homework first. You appeared to even realise that some consider him pro-ss before i even told you...--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:55, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

You are just making yourself look foolish now.... goodnight--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 01:01, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 00:11, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Kursk

First, I havn't lost interest. Second, I did not delete your tables. Third, the tables give undue weight to one source. How many time do you have to be told? Dapi89 (talk) 12:29, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

You should have aited for me to respond. Your edits have been reverted for the reaons given in the summary box. Do not edit the article again. Continue to edit my sandbox article. Dapi89 (talk) 12:32, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

What do you need to do? Firstly, stop throwing around accusations, it will get you into trouble. Second, read the talk page. Good night. Dapi89 (talk) 23:06, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Blocked for one month

You have been blocked from editing for a period of one month for continued incivility and non-consensus editing, despite repeated warnings and previous one week blocks. Please stop. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 07:03, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

can u explain what i did? Blablaaa (talk) 07:04, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

what did i wrong? i wasnt incivil, i was involded in a discussion but i was not incivil not more than other editors. i did not disrputed wiki my edit were primary on "Battle of kursk" [[6]] and on the kursk talk page were i discuss with another user about next edits [[7]]where i added table and updated sources, what did i wrong? i discuss with other uses what to do next. for me it seems that i have problems because i discuss edits, if i would simply revert other editors than nobody hinders me but when i discuss my changes iam marked as uncivil. i even asked the admin who blocks me to help me dissolving the disputed, i discussed everything with this admin!! he said nothing on his talk page that iam uncivil or disruptiv, i asked him if i can table to kursk, and if i can go on editing he said he will not comment this and now he blocked me? please look talk page of nick, i tried to discuss with him the problems and searched for help , under the section "problem" , update nick now wrote what he thinks i have done. please admins wait until i can upload pictures of glantz and friesers book to show that i did not cherrypick or something else, i will also prepare links to show who admin nick is presenting facts in a strange light to blame me for having bad faith. please wait for this to judge fair update 2: i will stop citing the books i will scan today every disputed page to all of nicks accusations. i will address every of his points. please dont review this request until i have addressed all of his accusations. i will also copy glantz the sites of glantz new books that show that everything i said on the reliable source board was correct. update again: i have to wait until evening (europetime) before i can add the content please wait until this: thanks

Decline reason:

It seems that your attempts to get along with other editors on Battle of Kursk are not working. Please suggest ideas for how you can work differently in the future. Do you have any other interests? You and the others who care about WWII battles are not getting along at all. I can imagine that your block might be lifted if you are willing to go and work on something else for a while. EdJohnston (talk) 17:26, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

i cant add links to the request i think, here the links for my edits on kursk [[8]] and the talk page

I was just in the process of posting the following explanation of the block when the above appeal was posted. I am referring to the following unacceptable behaviour, for which Blablaaa has been warned and blocked previously:

• Personal attacks on other editors: comments such as this, this and this over the last few days are a continuation of your uncivil behavior. The second example is particularly troubling as in it you falsely accused another editor of misrepresenting a source.
• Continued unwillingness to accept differing reliable sources or assume good faith by the editors who propose using these sources in edits such as this, this, this and this. I am particularly concerned about the last example here - your response to me calling you on your false claim that another editor misrepresented a source was to claim in this and subsequent edits that the source was unreliable and to imply that a discussion on the reliable sources noticeboard had come to this conclusion. That discussion actually came to the opposite conclusion, with several editors stating that the book was a reliable source and none supporting your concerns about it.
• Statements that you intend to resume the practice of aggressively editing articles such as this, this, this (I am concerned about your attempt to impose restrictions on Dapi's editing). Your response to my question about why you'd stopped using a sandbox version of the Battle of Kursk was also highly unsatisfactory as in it you basically state that you gave up on the sandbox as 'it was disappointing result for me' and then asked me to insert a table into the article which you were involved in an edit war on.
• More generally, the main thrust of your editing appears to be to find sources that present the German military in as favorable a light as possible, while dismissing or downplaying sources that provide a differing opinion. These seem to form a pattern of attempting to bias articles when they're considered in the context of the many talk page posts you've which appear to be nothing but your own opinion, which are invariably positive towards the performance of the German military (these are recent examples: [9], [10] and, in particular, [11], but there are many other previous comments which appear to be nothing but your own views).

On the basis of this behavior, it appears that you are still not willing to engage in consensus-based or civil editing and are still hoping to use Wikipedia as a vehicle to advance your personal interpretation of events. If this behavior continues when the block expires you should expect to be blocked for an indefinite period. Nick-D (talk) 07:49, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

this is a joke your show what i did before i got blocked, u tell me iam pushing german pov while citing glantz. if any admin will invest 30 minutes to check your qccusations he will see how wrong u are. you advised me to wait for dapis persmission to edit something... Blablaaa (talk) 07:52, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

ok nick, i will go and scan glantz books, i will show what he exactly wrotes about german losses. your link 9 10 11 are what exactly is written in glantz and friesers book, u dispute the most recent research on eastern front to blame me a POV pusher. i will show that glantz and frieser have consense about the casualties. u witchhunt me. Blablaaa (talk) 07:56, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

btw its higly suspect that u advise me to stop edit battle of kursk with my books which are the most modern research for kursk from german POV and soviet POV, u advise me to edit dapis sandbox where he told me what i can do and what not while i simply could add new content to battle of kursk, i will give links for this too. dapi btw blanked the sandbox and at first i did not find the his sandbox again, that why wrote on his talk page that i think he is not any longe interessted . thats why i thought my table were gone because i didnt find them. but ok .... Blablaaa (talk) 08:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

before i invest hours in scanning book pages and linking conversations, is there a civil way to solve this problem nick ? i pledge that everything what i wrote is sourced by glantz and frieser, i will proof this in the case of need. i also can show that many "accussations" are out of context. i also can show that i try to improve the articles, i invested hours to add table with glantz and friesers numbers. are u maybe ready after rethinking the issue to lift the block ? this is a kindly request not because iam "guilty" but because i dont want to create stress for me and others. so maybe u rethink the situation and try to analyse again, if u are interessted i can copy the improtant pages for your personnel interesset. is this a deal ? Blablaaa (talk) 08:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

I have blocked you on the basis of your continued uncivil behaviour and aversion to working constructively with other editors, not on the details of the content dispute you're engaged in, so attempting to use this as a forum to continue the dispute would not be helpful. As I noted on my talk page, you needed to work with other editors and accept that different reliable sources say different things. Instead, you have continued to attack the other editors and aggressively insist that the sources you approve are suitable for use while the other sources they propose using are unreliable. You have been blocked several times previously for this behavior. Nick-D (talk) 09:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

ok then i have to add the scans to show i worked proper and tried to improve article. but i like that u tell me i dont want to work with others while i ask for permission before my edits and discussed everything. and where did i said other sources are not suitable ? i have glantz newest book about kursk and u insist of his older ??? of course is his old book not suitable when his newest contradicts this. i asked u kindly and u denied its ok, i will add the links and scans. Blablaaa (talk) 10:02, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

unpleasent for me that i have to link your behaviour towards dapi and dapis towards me which shows who the discussion evolved and how u ignored. how iam called a nit and that i cheat sources what u ignored. first i will show that i never cheated sources and than that u not tried to help solving the dispute when u was asked because i didnt wanted to make something wrong. u also accused me of cherry picking without having my book thats not ok Blablaaa (talk) 10:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

indeed its one editor. iam not sure what i should change, at the moment the confilct is about sources. the article uses and old book of an historian who updated his findings. if the other editor would accept that, not i disputes his previous edits, the new book does. here i guess the problem is that the editors think i cant delete their sourced material but in this specific case i can i think ( its a rare situation a newer book contradicts an old of the same historian) . i can be annoying and i was before but to be honest at the moment i dont think that iam the problem. particulary at kursk, iam accused of cherrypinking, i didnt. i was accused of denieing other findings, thats very wrong i have glantz ( pro soviet ) book and use him. i repeat myself i was annoying and disruptiv before but at kursk iam not the problem at the moment. i even said that i can scan pages to show what the author really said, nobody asked me for while accusing me of cherrypinking and selectiv editing. but ok. to the future i would suggest that i go on with kursk and glantz new book, the article now includs some wrong statements of glantz . to avoid that i edit selectiv ( what i not did i think ) i can provide the sources and content and other editors choose the words for the edit, when they dont want that i do edits. regarding the teamwork, i explained all my edits and responded to every question, when the russian user ( dont know the name at moment , sorry) said something i responded fast as possible. i searched contact with everyone who showed interessed in this article. i cant do more i think.... Blablaaa (talk) 19:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

what i can do is stoping conversation with other editors. i explain my advices, than i add content, then i edit, without nonsense talkin, then i guess their would be less stress. Blablaaa (talk) 19:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

is there anylonge need of uploading the book pages to show that i did not edit selctive or cherrypicking or misquoting or whatever? Blablaaa (talk) 19:20, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

hm after i wrote the text i saw the recent edits on kursk , please take a look [[12]] . the user deletes my previos edits. first he deletes frieser findings about the failure of zitadelle, this findings are exactly what frieser wrotes with other words, this is sources multiple time, he simply deletes it. than i updated glantz numbers with his new numbers, he deletes again. why? whats the reason for? the summarize gives selctiv editing and patching pages togerther. where is the selctive editing, where? this happend often i explainded this to the admin who blocked me but he ignores. if i would do this i would be blocked immediatly. u can find 20 pages where i explained that glantz now has new numbers. then i edit with sources and he delets. he not only deletes this he deletes the findings of frieser, while glantz are out of context ( this i explained 30 times, too ) . and now please tell me that iam the problem on kursk. Blablaaa (talk) 19:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Looking at this from the outside, it is clear that something is not working. The admin who blocked you has examined all the details. I have not reviewed very much, but I can see that you are not getting along. It is not up to us to rescue you from the situation. Wikipedia is a group project, and you can't seem to get along with the other WWII people. Do you have any other ideas? You can't expect us to change how the other people work. You seem well-intentioned, but very stubborn. If you would abide by consensus, things might go better. EdJohnston (talk) 20:01, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

First of all , thanks that u respond. But when i read this sentence "If you would abide by consensus, things might go better." i see that u dont know what happend. To be honest i was disruptiv before and now people think "this guy" but at kursk iam not the problem. u can read above. i dont know how much time u want invest for such annoying thing like this here but when u read what i wrote above and watch scans when i upload then u will see.... . please review the link above first. kursk is big article maybe the other user steps back and let me do, there are enough other editors like hohum who will intervent when they think i do wrong. but the other user is disruptiv, i dont want brining him problems or something else but he is simply disruptiv and childish with his reverts. should i upload scans to solve every doubt ? Blablaaa (talk) 20:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

with stepping back i mean not that hes not allowed to edit or something like this, but that he takes a break and accepted that i cite the same historian with newer content. Blablaaa (talk) 20:15, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

regarding the plan of changing the interests iam really in the battle of kursk, bought glantz studied frieser and glantz so i would appriciate working on this article. if iam not allowed i have to search something else or to stop editing. but not beeing blocked! because the block is not correct Blablaaa (talk) 20:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

while iam sitting here and waiting, i found something interesting. on dapis sandbox dapi did an edit [[13]] here he uses numbers of glantz newer books, so he seem to have it. he uses that numbers that show glantz thinks 60-70 tanks on proko lost while he here [[14]] reverts my edits which use the same updated source and restores the old wrong version, he also did multiple edits on battle of prokhorovka establishing the obsolet 350 german tanks. i think this is proof enough that iam not the guy who pushes a pov. please note both books from the same author one is older and the other is newer and only focusing on this battle. this in context with calling me a nit and pushing pov and selective editing is very bad... Blablaaa (talk) 21:33, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Do not continue the dispute here. Please consider other options, that do not require you to edit Battle of Kursk. You have had many chances and been blocked four times in less than a month. By this time you must realize that something is not working. So do we. EdJohnston (talk) 21:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

so iam forbidden to edit , even when u check the links above? than unblock me please i wasnt incivil and did not push german POV and so on, please unblock. Blablaaa (talk) 21:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

so i will not make controversial edits on kursk until the dispute is resolved. is this ok for u. btw i dont think iam "guilty" but for showing good faith i will follow your advice Blablaaa (talk) 22:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

This block has been implimented in response to your behavior towards other editors. All the examples I gave above of recent unacceptable conduct are talk page posts. Ed, please note that Blablaaa has previously had a one week block lifted after promising to work constructively with other editors (see the discussion at the end of this version of the user page in which SarekOfVulcan (talk · contribs) lifted a one week block and explained their reasoning) only for Blablaaa to revert to their previous pattern of behaviour. Please also note that Blablaaa's unacceptable conduct isn't limited to just the Battle of Kursk aritcle - it's simply their current focus. Nick-D (talk) 01:38, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

which behaviour? i wasnt incivil, i tried to work with others, see talp pages. but nick can u respond to the proof of blatant disruptiv editing of dapi iam interested Blablaaa (talk) 01:45, 10 March 2010 (UTC) while u call me incivil without proof, u ignore a other user calling me a nit and so on, very neutral nick Blablaaa (talk) 01:48, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

• "This block has been implimented in response to your behavior towards other editors"

ok u are reffering to my incivil comments, here your first example this], i dont see incivilty first of all. there are hundreds of previous edits which brought the situation between me and dapi there. dapis words are at least same "incivil" then mine. he calling me a nit and accuses me of misquoting and so, u ignored completly. here [[15]], the other user's style is the same like mine but iam not abusing him. here your next [[16]] , i not even understand why u took this edit??? here your last [[17]] , same style like all of dapis comments towards me, mention he accuses me beeing a nit and selective editing in his previous edit. admin nick is ignoring. iam not sure if nick really tries to be neutral here maybe influenced by my previous behaviour before other blocks, i can understand but blocking me for this is not ok. u claim that i falsly claimed a user misquotes, i will address this with the version by dapi which he added to the article regarding the battle around bogodukhov

• ""On 11 August, the 1st Tank Army engaged Waffen SS units near Bogodukhov....The 5th Guards Army sent reinforcements, and between 13 and 17 August the Germans were fought to a stalemate. For the first time a major German counter offensive had failed to destroy a Soviet exploitation force"" NOTE: dapi added this while he has the newer book of glantz

• this is the side which describes the bogodukhov battle, NOTE kharkov and bogodukhov are different battles both soviet tank armies were not longer capable of action. additionally to glantz u can see frieser i can scan too if needed [[18]] and here the tank strenghts, frieser implyes most of the tank losses inflicted by ss counterattack, about 800 tanks are lost, this only to address the point that i highlight "minute engegaments" [[19]] . and also note please that i explained this before many time and i tried to explain many times i also explained this to admin nick. i want to highlight again that the other editor owns the new books which i scanned but insisted on the older version BOTH books by GLANTZ

i again ask kindly for the lift of the block. what i told to admin ed about not editing controversial kursk data until dispute solved is still my intention. thanks Blablaaa (talk) 02:38, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I won't respond to any new requests from you, unless you agree to stop editing Battle of Kursk and agree to work in some area other than WWII. When you complain about other editors, this suggests you are not listening. EdJohnston (talk) 22:27, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

ok i will stop editing Kursk, that means not i think iam the problem there. and that i complain about people who break wikipedia rules is showing that i show that people break the rules and an admin should investigate about this. that this is ignored without responds by two admins is highly suspect. nevertheless that u or another admin investigate against the other user is not my primary target my aim is being not blocked and editing Wikipedia, so i have to accept your conditions and i will. is this ok for u? i have to search for less controversial topics than. Blablaaa (talk) 22:37, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, propose something else that you are willing to work on. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

unit histories, persons ? by the way its a pity that i dont have permission to work on all articles, where i want. even when the accusations against me are baseless this time. but i accept that i have no choise. i think warfare is a section where many articles have less content and where many is to do. and my knowledge about this section is bigger than about other things . so if iam not allowed to edit any warfare related topics i am afraid that i have to quit wiki. i dont think iam very usefull on other themes Blablaaa (talk) 22:53, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

so, what is about unit histories and persons?Most Heer units have very short articles. i tried to expand 503rd heavy tank battalion for example. i would focus on such articles then. what u think about this ?

is this a deal Ed ? Blablaaa (talk) 23:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

admin nick wrote this on your page

• "Hi Ed, Blablaaa (talk · contribs) has a long history of aggressive, uncivil and POV editing on a range of articles, and not just the Battle of Kursk article (though their focus has mainly been on World War II articles). As such, unblocking them with a restriction that they only not be involved with World War II articles would probably just shift the problem elsewhere, particularly given that they've breached previous commitments to work cooperatively with other editors. Nick-D "

i want to comment this :

thats simply not true i broke no aggreement i followed the plan and than the situation changed i can check the conversation and edits. u blocked me without reason this time . u claimed things which are not true , for what did u block me? for what? now u highlight my previous behaviour which was indeed against the rules and incivil. what i did before my blocks was not ok but now i did nothing wrong. u said many wrong things on my talkpage after i proofed that u are wrong u did not respond to that. why nick ? u claim something and u are rebuted and u ignore it, is this the proper behaviour ?to Ed please jugde fair. look my edits after my last block, i followed the rules and did good proper edits, sourced everything explained everything. nevertheless is also said i follow your advice and will no longer edit the controversial topis :-( Blablaaa (talk) 00:53, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

while my previous blocks were correct, this time the claims against me are baseless. i explained above. admin nick who is very selectiv and not neutral accuse me of beeing disruptiv but has no proof for it. when his claims are rebuted he doesnt respond . than he claimed i was "incivil" but i wasnt. please check above. hope there is somebody who can judge neutral here. btw iam aware thats highly unlikly that an admin will have enough time to check the whole situation and to check that the accusations against me are baseless but if an admin will invest some minutes i would appreciate. and maybe important i dont dispute that i was incivil before and i hope the admin will ignore this and only look this block now, because i heavly changed my behaviour but the reputation is still there.

Decline reason:

This comment shows that you don't get the point of editing here, and shows no signs of understanding why you were blocked. — Coffee // have a cup // ark // 23:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

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yes for this comment iam blockey yes? lol . my intention was to say that my problems with other users evolded due unneccessary conversations about critical topics and that without there would be less stress. for this iam blocked? Blablaaa (talk) 23:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

and yes i dont understand why i was blocked this time. please explain me iam sure u cant .... Blablaaa (talk) 23:22, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

no admins finds an edit justifying an block while following wiki guideline Blablaaa (talk) 23:24, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

regarding the page about unblock request, i seem that i did some mistakes. So now: i did not try to disrupt wiki. i was not incivil, maybe a bit rough. i will not be "rough" in future. i dont plan to be disruptiv in future. i did not broke wiki rules. i did not ignore other users and didnt tried to be not coopartiv. i did no edit warring . i did not trying to establish a POV . i will not try in future. my knowledge and my content ist helpfull for wiki and its aim to provide neutral and verifiable knowledge.

Decline reason:

It appears to me that you still do not understand the reason for your block. Tim Song (talk) 00:02, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

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to be really honest, i really dont understand. the block means "disruptiv" editing. i thought i did not, than being incivil, i thought i did not. the following sounds like irnoie or sarkasm or something like this but its not: can u explain me? Blablaaa (talk) 00:09, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

u will not?Blablaaa (talk) 01:08, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

the block gives the following reason : "continued incivility and non-consensus editing" . first of all i dont i dont think i was really incivil, even if my style was not kindly enough i will try to improve. to the non consense editing : iam not sure, my only edit where on battle of kursk and charnwood. on charnwood i asked later for annother opinion and accepted this. on kursk i only edited tables to present the figures and updated the figures of an historian, furthermore i added material of an historian. all of this edits were explained on the talkpage. even when this is not ok i said that i will try go to edit less controversial topics to avoid problems. when i asked for examples of my disruptiv editing i got no so iam not sure if this claim is correct. nevertheless looking forward i simply say i will not be disrupiv and i will not be incivil. looking the whole issue i think its maybe clever to let u now that iam no native speaker so its possible that i miss something of an conversation and say something which has another meaing for others. for example the link listed by an declining admin. the edit had no bad intention it was simple self critic. some admins now declined my request explaining me that i didnt got the points, i realized that this is maybe true so this time the admin maybe presents my edit which justified the block and broke rules, i did not so much edits since my last block. thank you update: i wrote the guide and talking about others should be avoided, but when it comes to the non consense editing i might be usefull to read my texts above, the "nonconsense" edit were removing of material of an historian and replacing this with newer material of the same historian

Decline reason:

I'd be more inclined to WP:AGF if this was the first time, but this is the fourth time you've been blocked for this behavior. I think you need to sit out the full month in order to rethink your behavior here. Blueboy96 21:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

so now the 4th? admin who cant give me the link for my edit/s which justify a block ? i think for most admins its more easy to decline unblock request than risk confrontration with other admins, i understand this but its not correct. no reason for blocks -----> no block .... . 85.176.134.189 (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

help

{{helpme}}

where can i see if an admin has a email address ?Blablaaa (talk) 02:22, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:E-mailing_users might be a start. W. B. Wilson (talk) 11:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Yup .. go to the admin's talkpage, and if you see "Email user" on the left (under the toolbox), then voila. Not always the wisest move, however. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:25, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

LAST WARNING

• Note to Blablaaa (talk · contribs): Due to the persistent disruptive editing pattern displayed by you (for THREE repeated misuse of the "request to unblock" despite being told not to by several Admins), your ability to edit this talk page has been revoked until you sit out your one month BLOCK. This includes the clause of not sending any unsolicited emails to any Admins of Wikipedia. Take note that this is the last warning to you, if you do it again then the possibility of you getting an INDEFINITE BLOCK is without any doubts... a very real and possible scenario. (PS: Take a hint, drop the stick and go for a break, wil'ya?) --Dave ^{♠♣♥♦1185♪♫™} 23:50, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

question

is there a "Statute of limitations" for breaking wiki rules? Blablaaa (talk) 14:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean consequences? Chevymontecarlo. 14:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

yes are their less consequences for this person now? because its some weeks ago Blablaaa (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes, I see you were blocked for a month and it ended today. Is that what you mean? If so, no, you will still be blocked but this time indefinitely, no matter how long ago the first warning was. Chevymontecarlo. 14:44, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Warnings should not be take mildly.Chevymontecarlo. 14:47, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

no, i dont mean me i will report another user. i could not do before.... Blablaaa (talk) 14:50, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

tactical level

Thanks for pointing out the obvious; now look beyond Arnhem ... --EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

But as pointed out on the talkpage, look beyond Arnhem; the Market Garden battlefield was a lot large and made up of quite a few battles.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 07:52, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Dont know how the casualties split. But regarding the simple and maybe to simple "rule" of saying inflicting higher casualties can be seen as tactical victory, market garden was one for germans. What say your books about it? Blablaaa (talk) 20:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Blocked

As you have continued the behavior which lead to your previous blocks since the one month block expired I am implementing an indefinite block on your account. The behavior in question is:

• Continuing to dismiss reliable sources you disagree with. This has taken place in Talk:Allied war crimes during World War II#Death rates of POWs held by the Allies (data sourced to an academic journal article by a well-known historian dismissed without any alternative sources being offered), Talk:World War II casualties#soviet conscripts (discussion in which reliable sources are ignored) and Talk:Battle of Kursk#Strength and casualties again (I note in particular this post and this post in which you dismiss Chris Bellamy's very well regarded book Absolute War in favour of your preferred references on the dubious grounds that it's sourced to 'Soviet propaganda'))
• Continuing to use Wikipedia article talk pages as forums to discuss your personal views as you did at Talk:Operation Market Garden#Allied Operational Failure... And???? (admitted in this post in which you state that ' i do not claim that anything should be changed on the article' after several posts praising the performance of the German units, this post in which you state that you have no particular knowledge of this topic and this post which you start by saying that you wish to discuss your personal opinion ) and the above discussions
• Continuing to make rude comments towards other editors as you did in this post in which you wrongfully accused a editor in very good standing of only using Soviet sources for casualties on the Eastern Front (despite them posting links to non-Soviet sources and noting the problems with and limitations of the Soviet data in this lengthy post which was made in response to your initial question.
• Continuing to post comments in German as you did in this post, despite being previously warned against doing so.

Taken together, this is clearly a continuation of the tenacious and disruptive editing motivated by what appears to be a desire to paint the German military of World War II in as good a light as possible for which you have been banned several times before, most recently for a full month. As a result, it is clear that you are not here to engage in constructive and neutral editing with other editors and have not learned anything from your previous blocks, and I am implementing an indefinite block. Nick-D (talk) 09:51, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

• sorry what u are doing is a simple witchhunt. i didnt claim the sources for the 0.03% are wrong in fact i claim they do their math with much lower timeframe so the numbers arent comparable . like i explained the 0.03% are many times lower than the normal mortilaty rate for any western country now, so the 0.03% are for a much much lower time frame and thus arent comparable thats everything i tried to explain u , enigma understood u NOT. every mathematic will support me the table now is useless . please do understand what is explained to u. let any guy who has knowledge about statistic explain it.... *regarding kursk i only explaind that the 500.000 is the soviet propaganda number. this number is extensivly used in every soviet book after war it is always the same number. if bellamy or other authors use this number is absolutly irrlevant it is the soviet propaganda number established during the war. when u read the conversation, i say its the propaganda number but he can use the number and edit the article if he wishes so. When i use the word propaganda for propaganda than is there no problem , i can proof u that the 500.000 for kursk is the number establishped bei soviets during the war. i can proof..... . Again i did nothing wrong, its totally normal to call propaganda figures propaganda figures. *u not even read what happend their , thats enough to see your witchhunt, somebody said that it sould be called tactical german victory. than another user said no, it should not and asked why, i explained then that it is a tactical victory after the description of tactical_victory, then i said iam not informed over this battle and have no literatur about this battle so i dont claim that something should be changed. please see talk page discussion with enigma for further informations . regarding your claim of my opinion, sure i present my opinion. we all present our opinions about what should be included and what not, your claim is really odd for me. *this is absolutly joke again u not even read what was written before. i asked him for a sources breaking down the conspripts. than i said that he sounds like russion sources are the only one. meaning that it sounds that nobodoy made a work about these conspripts, this accusation is a joke really i talked very kindly to the other use and was only wondering that there are only russian sources. what u imply into my edit is absolutly wrong. i simply said that it feels for me like there are only soviet sources about these unknown conscripts. *i got problems to make woogie clear what i mean, i saw he can speak german so i wrote one edit in german , i even wrote that i will write only edit so that he can understand what i mean, he invested so much time in answering question and i was afraid he throws his time in the garbage because my english is so bad, thats why i wrote on in german. the german edit is the same like in english above only clearer. all points are misinterpreted by nick. he ripped single edits of me out of context to feed his witchhunt against me. even when one edit later every by me is explained he searches for edit which maybe can sound "odd". can anyone unblock me please, really thats a witchhunt. here is no reason for blocking or anythingelse. Blablaaa (talk) 2:32 pm, Today (UTC−4)

Decline reason:

I'm sorry, but blaming other editors and accusing them of witchhunts will not get your block lifted. Please discuss your behavior, how it will change, and will you will do to avoid future conflict. TNXMan 19:40, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

regarding the advice of the other admin i will focus on explain that all accusations against me are wrong or incorrect.

• i didnt claim the sources for the 0.03% are wrong in fact i claim they do their math with much lower timeframe so the numbers arent comparable . like i explained the 0.03% are many times lower than the normal mortilaty rate for any western country now, so the 0.03% are for a much much lower time frame and thus arent comparable thats everything i tried to explain u . every mathematic will support me the table now is useless . please do understand what is explained to u. let any guy who has knowledge about statistic explain it.... . Table for comparison of POW treatmeant of the basis of deaths has to be time adjusted. the table now is not. thats everythin i claimed. i brought perfect examples to make clear what is wrong. the 0.03% are maybe correct maybe not i dont know the source, but what i know is that the number is not comparable with soviet japanese or german numbers. this accusation against me is disproved in my opinion. here is my third edit in this discussion showing my intention [[20]]
• regarding kursk i only explaind that the 500.000 is the soviet propaganda number. this number is extensivly used in every soviet book after war it is always the same number. if bellamy or other authors use this number is absolutly irrlevant it is the soviet propaganda number established during the war. when u read the conversation, i say its the propaganda number but he can use the number and edit the article if he wishes so. When i use the word propaganda for propaganda than is there no problem , i can proof u that the 500.000 for kursk is the number establishped bei soviets during the war. i can proof..... . Again i did nothing wrong, its totally normal to call propaganda figures propaganda figures. this point is also disproved i can even proof that the number is the soviet wartime number and wrong. In fact i provided 3 historians making a major book or chapter only about this battle saying 500.000 is wrong while bellamy has only a short overview in his book russia in war. i not even unterstand your problem here. i did not say bellamy is bad or anything else. i simply claimed ( and iam absolutly correct here ) that for kursk he used soviet propaganda numbers. I not even said that this numbers should no even come to the article, in the same post which is copied by u i said he can add in the casualties section. where is the problem here? using the word propaganda is no crime or breaking of wiki rules!
• u not even read what happend there. Somebody said that it should be called tactical german victory. Than another user said no, it should not and asked why, i explained ( here i join an open conversation with a simple hind ) then; that it is a tactical victory after the description of tactical_victory, then i said iam not informed over this battle and have no literatur about this battle ( to cite ) so i dont claim that something should be changed. please see talk page discussion with enigma for further informations . regarding your claim of my opinion, sure i present my opinion. we all present our opinions about what should be included and what not, your claim is really odd for me. point disproved i opened no discussion nor did i do anything wrong with answering question of other users . Here user enigma asked how i could be a tactical victory [[21]] i am simply answering due to destruction of units. simply explaining that tactical victories are "sometimes" explained with losses, please look here tactical_victory
• Again here admin Nick not even read what was written before. i asked him for a sources breaking down the conspripts. than i said that he sounds like russion sources are the only one. meaning that it sounds that nobodoy made a work about these conspripts, this accusation is a joke really i talked very kindly to the other use and was only wondering that there are only russian sources. what u imply into my edit is absolutly wrong. i simply said that it feels for me like there are only soviet sources about these unknown conscripts. For any admin, read the discussion there u will see the accusation is baseless. here my edit showing that i search for a breakdown : [[22]] , than user woogie replied that soviet did not break down this figures , than iam wondering if there are only soviet sources about these people [[23]] . I must say again my intention was in absolut no form to make any accusations against wookie i only wondered about the limited literatur over this topic, that it is claimed that was a "rude comment" is really sad. when u read further that iam very pleasent to woogie saying thank u for his invested time ( before this accusation here)
• i got problems to make woogie clear what i mean, i saw he can speak german so i wrote one edit in german , i even wrote that i will write only edit so that he can understand what i mean, he invested so much time in answering question and i was afraid he throws his time in the garbage because my english is so bad, thats why i wrote on in german. the german edit is the same like in english above only clearer. That i edited in german was no bad faith or anything else i did it in good faith to clear the issue and stopd wasting woogies time. I want to highlight that i wrote this edit in german after woogie was concerd about the edit mentioned by nick, when i saw that woogie misinterpreted my intention i decided to make one edit in german.

all points are misinterpreted by nick. single edits of me out of context. I guess the it is enough to read the conversation which are mentioned. than u will see there is no bad faith or any breaking of wiki rules. If an admin wants do decline my request, i kindly ask for giving me the edit with justifies a block, and a little explanation. I also want to say please dont block me for behaviour prior this issue here. Please look the recent facts... . my reputation cources that i got blocked for things which dont justify a block. i hope the reviewadmin will balance his opinionBlablaaa (talk)

Decline reason:

WP:TLDR Toddst1 (talk) 22:38, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Blablaaa (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

the last admin declined my request because its to long. than i will make it shorter: *first accusation: i did not claim that the number is wrong or something else only that its hard to compare numbers which are not time adjusted. regarding the propaganda numbers: i simply told the user that this numbers are the same numbers like published during the war from soviet military. long explanation above *regarding the second, two other users started a discussion , one questioned a topic related question, i answered short, than another asked again and the topic related discussion evolded without problems or anything. long explanation above *here a complete misunderstanding. i never tried to make a rude comment or anything else, the further conversation with wookie and my explanation above sho * i made one edit in german to an user who speaks german, this was no bad faith or something else , i only had language problems and wanted shorten the conversation i hope all points are cleared. thank u Blablaaa (talk) 22:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Decline reason:

I am declining your request for unblock because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

• the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia, or
• the block is no longer necessary because you
  • understand what you have been blocked for,
  • will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
  • will make useful contributions instead.

Please read our guide to appealing blocks for more information. You are still blaming others. Also, please bear in mind that further abuse of this template will result in removal of your talk page access. -FASTILY_sock^(TALK) 05:51, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

• regarding the dismiss of source: it was not my intention to dismiss any source, i claimed something different . i dont want to dismiss sources in the future. here i guess we have a "misunderstanding"
• regarding the rude comment against wookie. it was not my intention to make any kind of rude comment, the opposite is fact i was very kindly to wookie because he helped me investing much time. i also try to be as kindly as possible to other editors here on wiki
• regarding the edit in german: my edit was only good faith, i had problems to express myself and my conversation partner can speak german so i thought it would be good to make 1 edit in german. i was wrong here. i will not post any comments in german again. i will use the common language here: english
• regarding the forum: i only wanted to bring input into an open conversation. somebody responded and than i responded again. my intention here is not to discuss my opinions here only topic related. my comment that i not claim a change, was meaning: i have no source i only wanted to bring input.

Blablaaa (talk) 23:45, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

For the benefit of any editors who have watchlisted this page or reviewing administrators, there's currently a discussion about this block at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Blablaaa. Nick-D (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

To wookies comment. Wookie i had no reliable sources thats why i asked u. i had no arguments regarding these conscripts. thats why i asked u. when i edit articles then with reliable sources. i think maybe u misunderstood my intention. in future i will edit articles only with sources. Blablaaa (talk) 15:53, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Evading block

Hello Blablaaa, I have blocked your sock User:Blablaaa2. Please try to understand that if one user of yours is blocked, you cannot just go and make another one. Wait for the discussion currently in place at WP:AN/I to end, post here any proper comment which you wish to add to the discussion and somebody will move it there. But do not create other accounts to evade your block, as you have just done. It's counterproductive (it hurts your message) and a clear violation of the policies. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 16:30, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

What I meant was "post any comments you wish to add here". And the thread is on WP:AN, not WP:ANI. Lot of failing today on my part. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 16:48, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) :: It was named Blablaaa2 so everyone can see it belongs to me. my intention was to take position which i am not able to do at the moment. i didnt want to overstress people in the irc channel. I also wrote comments on my talk page, which were not moved. so i did it wrong. How must i mark such comments to be moved on the admin board? iam not familar with this Blablaaa (talk) 16:50, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Thread on Ani Board

At the moment i feel that nick and his supportive admins, avoid to talk about the recent block. I contested the block because its unjustified and unneccarry. I learnd my lesson previously and are not harmful for wiki, the opposite is the fact i guess. I can provide good sources for the topic which i work one the most recent research by most reliable historians, thats ignored i think. No one of the "againstmeadmins" talked about the fact that nick indeed blocked me without proper reason in my opinion he even lied ( dont be outraged about this word before u check the reason and my explanations please ) and is now concerned about this and tries to focus on my past over and over again. He can stop no, iam not contesting any of his accusations against my wrong behaviour in the past. I contest the recent block. I also want to contest these POV arguments, in my opinion every editor brings POV thats why canadian editors work on normandy, british on africa and US on pacific. U will always find that a british user will nearly allways use the pro british source if he is in doubt how to edit.( same for german russian us editors) Thats a fact. When only british canadians work together than there is no problem, but when a german joins than there is more room for debate.I guees thats not only my fault, its more the nature of war related topcis and different countries. In the last time every edit of me is based on the most recent research and please; anyone who challenges this please provide the edit of me and say whats wrong. Most edits of me are done on Battle of Kursk please look the discussion page were i explained really absolutly every edit of me, with even copieing books( iam edit leader on this discussion page, with my young account, because i explain so much of my edits and search for consense). I edit only with good sources so dont accuse me of pushing a biased pro german POV please. I also want to highlight again that nick avoided multiple times to take position against the claim that his recent block is based on insufficient/wrong claims. Blablaaa (talk) 17:18, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

some input to the POV argument. Yes i have a account on the german wiki since my last Block. I wrote one article completly new [[24]] and edited battle of kursk. I was welcomed and iam respected i guess no one has a problem with my edits, they appreciate it. Please look there if u can read a bit german. I simply wrote the same there like here only in better german. I had no problems. But why ? on the german wiki no problems with my edits but on the english. That indicates simply that all people have POV and problems/discussion evolde when two POV collidate. i learned thats no problem we have to find consense. The english wiki is very ungerman POV i think. Exceptions are aerial warfare and biographies.Blablaaa (talk) 17:29, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the ips which are now the main focus because nicks avoids to talk about his behaviour. here is my edit : [[25]] telling eyeseren admin that iam this ips without any question if iam this ip, i got in contact again with him so i told immediatly that iam was the ip( not all ). regarding the bahavaiour of this ip, ( me and some friends ) , totally iept, i dont contest any accusation. i came to the normandy article and was shocked over the pov ( in my opinion ), i talked like in forums were people try to dominate other users, i was angry i was annoying , many of my "vandal" edits were only to be pointy, i pointed on POV. i noticed the value of wiki changed my objectiv created an account started to edit articles without hiding my past. Go struck with other annother editor presenting his opposite POV. i again would explain that i would never get problems on german wiki ( and never got ). Blablaaa (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

maybe somebody didnt see i link some comments of user: Paul Siebert [[26]] , i hope its ok for him. Blablaaa (talk) 19:37, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Some input to the POV argument; yes, I have had an account on the German Wikipedia [[27]]. I wrote one completely new article de:Belgorod-Charkiwer Operation and edited de:Unternehmen Zitadelle and some others .

I was made welcome, and treated with respect; I thought that no one had a problem with my edits, that they appreciated them. Please look there if you can read a bit of German. I simply wrote the same there as here, only in better German (because my English is not great). I had no problems. But why ? On the German Wikipedia, I have had no problems with my edits.

That indicates simply that all people have POV and problems/discussion evolde when two POV collidate. i learned thats no problem we have to find consense. The english wiki is very ungerman POV i think. Exceptions are aerial warfare and biographies.

This indicates to me that all the people have POV and problems/discussion evolve when two POVs meet. I learned that that should not be a problem; we have to find a consensus. The English Wikipedia is very English-speaking-POV, in my opinion. Exceptions to this include aerial warfare and biographies.

Regarding the IP edits, which have become the main focus of this discussion, because Nick-D has avoided discussing his behaviour: In this edit I freely admitted to EyeSerene (talk · contribs) that they were my edits. I contacted him immediately, saying that some (not all) of the edits by that IP were me.

With regard to the behaviour of that IP user: Some of those edits were made by me, others were made by my friends.It was not correct i behaved like in a Forum, saw it a battleground of opposing opinions. I was angry and annoyed; many of my 'vandal' edits were pointy, due to the POV issues. Every further accusation against my previous behaviour will not be contested by me. I will accept, any accusation against me ( regardless what they claim ) before my unjustified blocks, as true.I hope this will help us focusing on the recent issue.

Perhaps you did not notice the of Paul Siebert. I sincerely hope that Paul does not need to become embroiled in this dispute. 21:53, 18 April 2010 (UTC).

In your own words

...please explain why in your opinion you were blocked from Wikipedia on each of the five previous occasions. Please note in your explanations what you feel you learned, and why you think you deserve another chance. I want to here back from you so that I may better understand your position on this matter. Note that this does not mean that I will change my position at ANI on your block, but I may rethink where I stand on the matter if I hear back from you.

Also, I would like to know if you have ever had any problems with blocks on the German wiki, and if so what for. English may be a factor here, but since you are contributing on two different language wikis I would like to know if you have had any trouble there. TomStar81 (Talk) 02:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

For the record, he has ZERO blocks on the German wiki. And if he did, why is that an issue for you? It has no influence on English wiki, right? Or does it? Caden ^cool 06:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I must be honest at the moment the situation turns a bit unpleasent for me. Thanks for positive words of caden for me. But i must say some of blocks were ok i guess. First of all i was very unkindly ( very very often i simply had problems to quit the forum mentally) thats enough for blocking. Nearly all my blocks were complicated and much of the reasons were odd( not all), espcially when i had the problem with dapi. But i were unkindly anyway. I dont want Nick removed as admin. Again thank you Caden but i think nick was maybe influenced by my path and thats why he overpaced a bit. We should not "overpace" so i dont want sanctions for him.

Regarding the german wiki, no never had problems in any kind. Please check if u want. On the german wiki we have a different system. Young editors are not allowed to edit an article only a kinda "sandbox" then mature editors ( u must be announced as such "mature" editor) look your changes and "approve" them. After i started editing, nearly all my edits were approved. after a day i had some of these "editors" looking after me approving any of my edits immediatly. Starting of editing other stabs was very well appreciated. Like i explained earlies: when u edit "your" wiki in such topics u always will get less problems. Blablaaa (talk) 07:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Nick said on his talk page that the problem is that iam fighting against other sources. Thats not true since a long time. I wish that all who are interessed look battle of kursk discussion. Also i want to highlight that i never claimed that other sources should be removed, long ago were i did this. Infact i added Frieser and Glantz (pro soviet, bought the book). Also please look the german article of me, hes citing Frieser and Glantz!!!! Blablaaa (talk) 07:39, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Again i want to say thank u to caden. His text explained very good my "feelings" particulary about my many long unblock request which were handled a bit strange. Blablaaa (talk) 07:53, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Blablaaa. I've looked at your discussions on the talk pages and I have no idea what Nick is saying because I don't see where you are fighting against sources being added. Nick is wrong, wrong, wrong. He has clearly stepped out of line. I personally believe that Nick has abused his tools and needs to be dealt with. I'm very sorry to see how badly you have been treated by Nick on the English wikipedia. I hope things work out for you Blablaaa. I hope you are unblocked soon and that you remain as an editor. Many WW11 articles could use your help. And BTW you're welcome. Caden ^cool 07:56, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your words. Yes sometimes he simply says wrong things. Regarding the sources, i dont know how often i explained that i own Glantz for example, a well known historian whos pro-Soviet. And i dont know how often i expressed my concerns about wartime numbers(from all sides, allied and axis), but finally said "include them if u want but maybe flag them as wartime". I also think the problem is the way the conversations were handled. Sometimes i defended myself with good arguments but the arguments were simply ignored. U saw what i mean ? i guess. Seeing nicks Page i think he made much edits and has a big value for wiki so i dont know if its good to investigate against him. I would be satisfied with an simple unblock:-).Blablaaa (talk) 08:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: "he has ZERO blocks on the German wiki." That may serve (although not necessarily is) an additional argument that he pushes a German POV. And, please, keep in mind that, although I rose a concern about a possibility that German POV was underrepresented in English WP, I don't think the issue is really serious. The Anglophone history of the Eastern Front is a rare example when the history is being written not by a winner: starting from 1945, German sources became almost fully available for western scholars, whereas the Soviet archives were classified, so for decades the western scholars looked at the Eastern front events by German eyes, refuting the Soviet POV as a propaganda (although that was partially justified). Therefore, it would be more correct to say that German POV (e.g. that it was a numerical superiority and tolerance to losses that allowed the Soviets to win) has been implicitly represented for decades. Currently some rollback takes place, and this is a normal process. The only problem is that we should not go too far. That is why I opposed to the Blablaaa's block.--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Based on your reply, I think the problems here is that you lack an understanding of English to the level at which editors here frequently contribute. I now suspect that both you and Nick were acting for the good of the project, but I believe that since your English seems a little off at times that you come across as being disruptive without really meaning to. I would advise you to leave the WWII articles alone and focus on something else for a while; if you can demonstrate to the community that you can contribute here without creating problems for our various projects then I believe Nick and the others who agree with him will be more open to giving you a second chance. TomStar81 (Talk) 19:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

My understanding of english is pretty good. My writing abilities not. Blablaaa (talk) 19:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Nick-D

i invite u in a kindly conversation here. Blablaaa (talk) 08:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

No thanks. I hope that you make good use of the opportunity to resume editing and wish you the best in the future, but don't see anything I need to discuss with you that wasn't discussed at WP:AN. Cheers, Nick-D (talk) 09:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Unblock

Hello, i got unblocked already. Thanks for your help. I also sended thank you's on irc Blablaaa (talk) 08:53, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I ask people if we can speed things up a bit and they do it before i could even voice it - my, the average company would pay a fortune for such employees :).

Other then this, well, i got little to say. You quote reliable sources, you discuss on talk pages so i see no true red flags on that aspect. It may be wise to ask for a quick spell-and-grammar check before inserting content though, as you make some errors in that area, but even that should be manageable. Finally it may also be wise to evade the more heated debates for now by simply not giving a fuck (I know the title can be considered rude, but it is a pretty good essay nonetheless). If you meet a lot of resistance it is often easier to just ease against it, rather then trying to smash trough. Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 09:46, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, i will follow your advise, espiaclly the one with grammar check. Chzz already mentioned this on irc Blablaaa (talk) 09:55, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

An offer

Hi Blablaa. Although I've only interacted with you once (I think), I have followed your saga off and on for a while. I had been planning to comment at your AN thread, but it looks like I've missed the party on that one.

Anyway, leaving all of that aside I don't think you're a vandal but I do think you might need a bit of help editing, so I'd like to offer my assistance. I'm not offering to 'mentor' as such (never done it before), but I'm willing to help you if you run into difficulties or are unsure how to do something. I'll be happy to try and mediate (but only if I know enough about the subject) and proactively help incorporate edits into an article. I'm very much in favour of balanced articles so, as long as you are working to that goal, I'll be happy to help you make well constructed, supported and referenced edits. What I won't do is take sides in any debates, nor give any opinions on your past escapades. I have no interest in being drawn into any shouty arguments with other users, and if I disagree with you I'll tell you. But I will try to be fair and objective.

So basically, feel free to contact me if you think there's anything I can assist you with. I'm hoping I don't regret this.... Cheers, Ranger Steve (talk) 17:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

"your saga" :-). yes thanks for the offer, i think i will use it sometime. Blablaaa (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Wrap up

Guten Abend.

I'm glad that I was able to help you a bit, and I wish you all the best in your future Wikipedian career.

I want to stress the need for caution. As you now know, I am a strong advocate of balance, and trying to avoid systemic bias; however, you have hit upon a complex, difficult area of Wikipedia. As English is not your first language, misunderstandings are very easy. Considering the events leading up to the recent block, I ask you to please be cautions and, most importantly, if you are in any doubt about an edit, ask. There is no deadline, no rush - the Wikipedia articles will be around for a very long time. It does not matter if you make an edit right now, or if you check and discuss it first - and considering the potential for misunderstandings, I urge you to be circumspect in editing articles.

As you now know, there is plenty of help out there. I am happy to try and help, at any time. Best regards,  Chzz  ►  23:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I will help you

Contact me by Wikipedia E-Mail in German if you need assistance.--Woogie10w (talk) 23:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

On left side of menu

TOOLBOX What links here

Related changes

User contributions

Logs

E-mail this user

Special pages

--Woogie10w (talk) 00:00, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Great battles on the eastern front : the Soviet-German War, 1941-1945

I own and highly recommend this book. Plenty of Statistics on the Battles- Bring plenty of change, You will want to copy this for sure,

Great battles on the eastern front : the Soviet-German War, 1941-1945Author: Trevor N Dupuy; Paul Martell

You will find this at

Bayerische Staatsbibliothek Ludwigstraße 16 80539 München

--Woogie10w (talk) 02:32, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

War in the East : the Russo-German conflict, 1941-45

This is another out of print book that I own it has statistical analysis, really interesting The author Jim Dunnigan works on Wall St in the real world.

War in the East : the Russo-German conflict, 1941-45

Author: James F Dunnigan; et al

Publisher: New York : Simulations Publications, 1977.

Available In Germany

1. Die Deutsche Nationalbibliothek

Frankfurt AM Main, D-60322 Germany

2. Helmut-Schmidt-Univ,Univ Bund Hamburg

Hamburg, D-22043 Germany

--Woogie10w (talk) 02:34, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Stalingrad to Berlin: the German defeat in the east

I own and highly recommend this book which was written by a professional US military historian.

Stalingrad to Berlin: the German defeat in the east by Ziemke, Earl

In German Libraries

Deutsch-Amerikanischen Instituts Nürnberg

GOTTFRIED WIHELM LEIBNIZ BIBLIOTHEK HANNOVER,

Universität Göttingen

Universitatsbibliothek Braunschweig

--Woogie10w (talk) 02:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Moscow to Stalingrad : decision in the east by Ziemke, Earl

I own and highly recommend this book which was written by a professional US military historian.

Moscow to Stalingrad : decision in the east by Ziemke, Earl

In German Libraries

Bayerische Staatsbibliothek

--Woogie10w (talk) 02:55, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

DVDs Eastern Front

DVDs Eastern Front

I recommend these DVD -Worth the cost

Russia's war blood upon the snow [28] For Anti-Stalin POV

The Unknown War" [29] For pro Soviet POV I saw this back in 1978 and recently purchased the DVDs

Regards --Woogie10w (talk) 02:57, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Blablaaa. You have new messages at Hohum's talk page.
Message added 12:02, 20 April 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

(Hohum ^@) 12:02, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

books

I have not read Das deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg, it is at The New York Public Library. This is a reliable academic source that can be verified by English readers since it is translated into English. Back in the 1980's I attended lectures given by Glantz, the guy is the top scholar in the west on the Eastern Front. Take your time, be patient and read the books, there is no rush. I started reading about the Eastern Front in 1965. My favorite author is de:Paul Carell. I started learning German in 1968 and Russian in 1985 be patient, there is no rush.--Woogie10w (talk) 13:32, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

April 2010

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Battle of Prokhorovka, please cite a reliable source for the content of your edit. This is particularly important when adding or changing any facts or figures and helps maintain our policy of verifiability. Take a look at Wikipedia:Citing sources for information about how to cite sources and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. (Hohum ^@) 17:34, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. When you make a change to an article, please provide an edit summary, which you forgot to do before saving your recent edit to Battle of Prokhorovka. Doing so helps everyone to understand the intention of your edit. It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. (Hohum ^@) 17:55, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I was also concerned about this edit, but I see that it is explained and discussed at Talk:Battle_of_Prokhorovka#Casualties - this seems reasonable.

Blablaaa, please make sure you use an edit summary each time you edit - it can help avoid a lot of problems! Thanks,  Chzz  ►  14:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I removed the "disputed" and replaced it with cited figures. Blablaaa (talk) 16:00, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar of Integrity

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		Blablaaa, the way you conducted yourself during your unjustified block by admin Nick-D that led to the AN report has shown me that you are a person of integrity and honor -- a real genuine stand-up human being -- that believes in doing what's right. I've felt this way since I took the time to read all of your posts on your talk page and all of your edits on WW2 articles, as well as all of your posts explaining every edit you made on WW2 talk pages. Nothing you have done or written has shaken my belief. I am honored to present to you this barnstar. Sincerely, Caden. Caden cool 05:07, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

^^ thanks Blablaaa (talk) 11:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome! Caden ^cool 11:17, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

regarding kursk, Today i have no time . i will read both, frieser and glantz again to summarize their conclusions. i will write then on the kursk talk...Blablaaa (talk) 11:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay sounds good. Take your time man. No rush :) Caden ^cool 11:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Besides Glantz try to read Ziemke, Seaton and Erickson. They are top quality sources that provide a solid analysis. They are out of print but out there for sale online. Worth every penny!

Stalingrad to Berlin-Earl F. Ziemke

Moscow to Stalingrad Earl F. Ziemke

Road to Stalingrad-John Erickson

Road to Berlin-John Erickson

Russo-German War John Seaton

BTW I need to read Glantz's new books on Stalingrad.

--Woogie10w (talk) 14:31, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Good, Glantz is the best, you are ahead of me, be patient you have plenty of time. I started reading about eastern front in 1965.--Woogie10w (talk) 16:04, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I attended about 20 all day lectures by Glantz from 1986-1993. The man is unbelievable, he can narrate the details of the battles of the eastern front in a clear and lucid manner for hours without notes. He has a thorough knowledge of the Russian sources and prepares excellent maps done in a professional military manner. He has the most pleasant personality and a level of knowledge that wins the respect and admiration of his audience. His books have given us new and better understanding of the role of the Red Army in the war, I hope he continues to write for many years to come.--Woogie10w (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Hallo Blablaaa. I didn't understand this edit [30] that you made so I reverted you. Was there something wrong with that source? I checked and read the source and it looks fine to me. Did I miss something? Can you please tell me? Thanks. Caden ^cool 22:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The section is about Germany. And starts with a figure for overall POW deaths during WW2. Not for germany. Blablaaa (talk) 23:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh okay sorry about that. Revert my edit but please explain in the edit summary why. Thanks. Caden ^cool 23:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I just reverted my edit Blablaaa. Caden ^cool 23:40, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

K, thanks for your help on kursk order of battle. i will finish it soon. Not much time at the moment. Blablaaa (talk) 23:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome dude anytime and take your time on the Kursk order of battle. Caden ^cool 00:02, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you work more on the Battle of Orsa? It needs more info. Caden ^cool 08:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

yeah, forget do improve the article. i will add content soon Blablaaa (talk) 08:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Dude you should set up your email. Caden ^cool 08:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

help

umm, im not sure on this. What i want to get, the wiki isnt letting me. Ill ask a more experanced user for some help Sophie(: 16:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Beteiligte Verbände der Wehrmacht

Gliederung: Heeresgruppe Mitte (Generalfeldmarschall Günther von Kluge)

Armee	Kommandeur	Bemerkung	Korps	Kommandeur	Divisionen
9. Armee	Walter Model		XX. Armeekorps	R. von Roman	45, 72, 137, & 251 Infanteriedivision
			XLVI. Armeekorps	H. Zorn	7, 31, 102,& 258 Infanteriedivision
			XLI. Armeekorps	J. Harpe	18. Panzerdivision & 86, & 292 Infateriedivision
			XLVII. Panzerkorps	J. Lemelsen	2,9 & 20 Panzerdivision & 6. Infanteriedivision
			XXIII. Armeekorps	J. Frießner	216 & 383. Infanteriedivision & 78. Sturmdivision
			Armeereserve		4 & 12. Panzerdivision & 10 Panzergrenadierdivision
2. Panzerarmee	Erich-Heinrich Clößner		XXXV. Armeekorps	L. Rendulic	34, 56, 262 & 299 Infanteriedivision
			LIII. Armeekorps	F. Gollwitzer	208, 211 & 293 Infanteriedivision & 25. Panzergrenadierdivision
			LV. Armeekorps	E. Jaschke	110, 134, 296 & 339 Infanteriedivision
			Armeereserve		112. Infanteriedivision
Heeresgruppenreserve					5. & 8. Panzerdivision

Gliederung: Heeresgruppe Süd (Generalfeldmarschall Erich von Manstein)

Armee	Kommandeur	Bemerkung	Korps	Kommandeur	Divisionen
4. Panzerarmee	Hermann Hoth		LII. Armeekorps	E. Ott	57, 255 & 332 Infanteriedivision
			XLVIII. Panzerkorps	0. von Knobelsdorff	3. & 11. Panzerdivision & 167. Infanteriedivision und Panzergrenadierdivision Großdeutschland
			II. SS-Panzerkorps	P. Hausser	1 , 2 & 3 SS-Panzergrenadierdivision
Armeeabteilung Kempf	Werner Kempf		III. Panzerkorps	H. Breith	6, 7 & 19 PAnzerdivision & 168 Infanteriedivision
			Korps Raus	E. Raus	106 & 320 Infanteriedivision
			XLII. Armeekorps	F. Mattenklot	39, 161 & 282 Infanteriedivision
Heeresgruppenreserve			XXIV. Panzerkorps		5. SS-Panzergrenadierdivision & 17. Panzerdivision

on the german wiki its always hidden . look here de:Unternehmen Zitadelle#Vergleich_der_Armeen . i also tried many things, but it didnt work. Maybe i should search for another option. Blablaaa (talk) 16:54, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Re. your question on the talk page of Sophie (talk · contribs) - Done, with this edit.  Chzz  ►  19:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

cool thanks very much Blablaaa (talk) 02:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Guten Tag.

Just wanted to drop by and say hi. --Raubfreundschaft (talk) 21:40, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Ref 9may.ru

I note that on a reversion of an edit to Operation Bagration, you have called http://9may.ru a "fanboy" site.

I draw your attention to the bottom of each page on the site:

Copyright "RIA Novosti", Moscow. Electronic periodical "Project" RIA Novosti "-" Our Victory. День за днем» («RIA Novosti Project — «Our Victory. Day by Day») зарегистрировано в Федеральной службе по надзору за соблюдением законодательства в сфере массовых коммуникаций и охране культурного наследия 23 марта 2005 г. Свидетельство о регистрации Эл № 77-20481 Day after day »(« RIA Novosti Project - «Our Victory. Day by Day») is registered in the Federal Service for Supervision of Legislation in Mass Communications and Protection of Cultural Heritage

(Hohum ^@) 01:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

if u really try do imply that wiki should accept the page which publishes all the wartime propaganda which explains that all people in the korsun pocket died and so on than u make a bloody mistake. Blablaaa (talk) 11:44, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I also want to highlight that its pretty unimportant who made this site, we need a reliable historian who publishes this numbers, i also point on a case of normandy articles : Where we had a book by a reliable historian which simply publishes wartime account of wehrmacht. Admin nick explained me that simply publishing wartime figures without discussing them doesnt make this figures good. When a site publishes all this crap numbers which a are proven wrong then the site is not reliable. That this site use this numbers only supports my generall concern about russian sources..... Blablaaa (talk) 11:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

June 2010

Please do not attack other editors, as you did at User talk:Igor Piryazev. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. 69.181.249.92 (talk) 15:10, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

understoodBlablaaa (talk) 15:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Comments like these are totally inappropriate. If you continue to behave uncivilly you'll be blocked again. Please stop. Parsecboy (talk) 16:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

In light of comments on my talk page and the discussion at the milhist page, and bearing in mind my recomendation yesterday, could I again recommend that you strike your comments? The conversation is still quite active, and most editors agree that your apology rings hollow without doing so. Ranger Steve (talk) 15:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

doneBlablaaa (talk) 17:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I have corrected it for you by the way - I think you need to use the code around text only and not other code (like : or < >). Ranger Steve (talk) 18:25, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Enlighten me

What sources have i used that are so strange, uninformed, written by complete idiots, written by authors who dont know what they are talking about, or what you cant find on amazon ... considering you now think the latter is a key point in establishing reliablity. Can you even find some evidence that discredits these wierd, complete bollocks, bias, ignoramous'?

Where do we go with this discussion ? Blablaaa (talk) 19:39, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Where do we go, you put your money were your mouth is or bite the bullet. Regards

You should avoid proverbs when u talk with a non nativ speaker. Cant understand what u mean... Blablaaa (talk) 19:43, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Then go look it up, the initial post was very clear considering your recent comments.

Why should i invest time to search evidence against u? Blablaaa (talk) 19:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Because you have didly squat other than your uninformed opinion and bais; if you are going to shoot your mouth off and childlish attempt to discredit works based purely on the fact you cant find a book on an online shopping system or because you dont know who the author is/their exp/education level/or time invested in making said work - your talking crap and you know it. In which case i suggest you bite the bullet and stop bringing it up as some piss-poor attempt at a smoking gun.

i simply told u that many of your books are crap, they are so bad that nobody buys them, thats why u cant purchase them on amazon. They are written buy guys who have no knowledge about warfare and simply wanted to write a fast unit history. While other editors use military experts known in the whole world. u focus on british historians which u not even can find on google. Your simply and in my opinion hardcore dumb rule is: the guy has a book = hes a historian... . But whats your alternative? u want to provide your personnel opinion on wiki so u need historians who support this opinion, and this are these historians... . Eventually u can support every wrong opinion with a mass of historians , because there are so many bad. Thats why bias wins on wiki. I try to use guys like Glantz for articles insteadt of unit histories. Blablaaa (talk) 19:59, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

So essentially you have no argument, can you even provide a single example? Do you have figures showing printing/sales records to support your opinion? How do you know they are crap, have you read them, have you seen works that contradict them? Which of these historians have no military knowledge? Which historians cannot be found on google (changed your stance now that you have looked on amazon?)? How do you rate world wide coverage of their work - based on your opinion and the the fact you appear to be very ignorant of events on the Western Front?

Considering numerous articles i have provided aqccounts from both sides of the fence to provide a balanced account of what has happened; what is my personal opinion (some what humerous considering your own actions)? How many works has Glantz released that cover battles in the Middle East, Med, Africa, Normandy or on the forces that fought in these areas?

So you going to put your money where your mouth is and provide an example ... or just carry on spruoting crap?

I read what u cite and than i get a first idea of the qualaty. And i searched many of your "historians" months ago, after i saw what i saw i made my conclusion. My conclusion u can find above. But logical i dont remember which names i searched ( and not found) same for books. Why should i remember that. Thats why i ask u why i should invest time to find them AGAIN. When i search an unimportant historian and dont find anything interessting about him then i forget him. Alone the fact that u dont cite pro german historians is enough to back my statements......!!! Again, i can find some of your weird sources again but at the moment i dont see a reason for this. Blablaaa (talk) 20:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Please name pro german editors for normandy like hastings or the authors of the SS books. Please name the books u have of pro german authors. Blablaaa (talk) 20:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

So again you have no argument. The only evidence you have is that your are inapt that goolge searching, have no idea on what makes a historian and on top of which you contuine to show your bais by the need to have pro-German (or pro-British) historians in use; the goal of a historian is to report and anyalise an event regardless of nationalist bais - i suggest you go read up on the works of Fritz Fischer.

Funny how u dodge my question. Iam preparing my finishing move, please name pro german books which are in your shelves Blablaaa (talk) 20:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

U really think the nationality of an historian dont affects his opinion ? :-) Blablaaa (talk) 20:24, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Quid pro quo Clarice

I dont need your reply. I know how u subtly implement your opinion in the articles... Blablaaa (talk) 20:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

So, now an hour after being asked a simple question; you have not been able to support your accusation in the slightest. Pathetic.

So, now an hour after beeing asked a simple question; I still see no reason to invest time for you.... U want me to search normandy articles and google while u are not willing to name me your books? thats pathetic my friend Blablaaa (talk) 20:36, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Is that how it works? really? You make an accusation and i talk about what books i have? What world do you live on? In the real world, you make an accusation - you support it. You havent. You havent attempted to. You have sprouted crap and worthless opinion so i think we are done.

Seriously, bite the bullet.

^^ i explaind u whats wrong with your style. And i explained u that i see no value of investing time in the searching of evidence. I asked u a question which can be answered in 1 minute, u dodge the question, thats already enough. U know exactly how my question prepares the finish. Thats why u are dodging ^^ Blablaaa (talk) 20:46, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Its called Quid pro quo, you defend your accusation and then i will answer all the questions you want. The fact that you are flat simpley refusing to support something you keep raising notes how pathetic your situation is; you are just stating, without using the words, that you know jackshit on the subject.

No its simply highlights how unimportnt the issue is for me. U are the guy hunting me, i dont care about u ^^ but when u come i dont refuse to remind you on your editingstyle Blablaaa (talk) 20:59, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

And i also remind u to the fact that u came to me and accused me of beeing bias towards british authors. and u fielded no evidence Blablaaa (talk) 21:01, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Keep dodging the simple question, you have no evidence to support your pathetic, unsound, ungrounded accusation. If you want me to highlight all the evidence (which i actually highlighted in the post on BOB) showing your bais agaisnt British authors, i will - after you support your accusation. Quid pro quo. Hit me up, when you are able to defend yourself like a grownup.

u highlighted nothing, u claim nationaltiy doesnt affect the opinion of historians. are u serios?Blablaaa (talk) 21:05, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

like always.... Blablaaa (talk) 21:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Ypres

I can more or less follow the German article without the need to translate, my reading isn't that bad. Anyway, I appreciate the help. I was already aware of the Ypres myth. If you read the German Army section I briefly mention the mythical story. It will be covered better in the Aftermath section, when I get around to doing it. Dapi89 (talk) 09:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Verrieres Ridge

Just a courtesy note to let you know that I've reverted your edit because it was contradicting the sources used. Have I understood your objection correctly: you think the article shouldn't use "divisions" because they were understrength? If I've got that right, it's a fair point but you'll need to provide a decent source before we can change the article. EyeSerene^talk 12:47, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Blablaaa. You have new messages at EyeSerene's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Your behaviour is being discussed at WP:ANI

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Anotherclown (talk) 02:54, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Blablaaa's uncivil language and WP's gutless response

I am completely uninvolved in the discussion above, and to be honest couldn't care less who is right or wrong, but I find this editor's language to be uncivil, offensive and unjustified. For those that haven't followed the discussion, I quote from the thread above:

FOR FUCK SAKE WHO QUESTIONED THE OUTCOME ????????? U QUOTE STORIES OF SOLDIERS TO SUPPORT THE POINT ??? ARE U SERIOUS ?????? THEN QUOTE ALLIED SOLDIERS WHO SUFFERED MORE CASUALTIES IN EVERY ASPECT ???? ARE U SERIOUS ????? THATS NOT THE FUCKING POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blablaaa (talk) 13:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Since when have we tolerated such language, especially from an editor with 5 previous blocks? Are we all so gutless now following the previous episode that we allow this behaviour to go unsanctioned? It seems that way... (still waiting for his mate Caden to chime in and award him another Barnstar).

Bloody bad show all round. Why wasn't this reverted immediately and a block applied? The apology is hollow at best until the comments are removed by the editor in question, and quite frankly he is still deserving of at least a 24-hour block. Perhaps only Nick-D had the stomach to do it, but then we saw where that got him didn't we? His integrity unfairly called into question... Disgusted. Anotherclown (talk) 14:14, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Some of Blablaa's contributions are quite heated, but it does seem that there is still a constructive discussion going on on a talk page, and Wikipedia policy is that we do not issue blocks as a 'punishment' for rudeness (or indeed anything else). Probably the best place to raise this kind of issue is at WP:ANI - there matters will get the prompt attention of an administrator. The Land (talk) 14:25, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

A society that doesn't apply sanctions against those that flout its rules of behaviour... the vultures are circling. Anotherclown (talk) 14:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I prefer to let people's comments speak for themselves. I wouldn't club and gag someone if they had an outburst in a real life conversation/argument, I would let everyone else draw their own conclusions from that behaviour. If someone else wanted to do it, that's their decision, but I personally try to avoid editing other peoples comments. I have suggested to Blablaa (twice now) that he strikes his comments though. Ranger Steve (talk) 15:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I warned him that if the behavior continues he will be blocked. I've got my eye on him; the next time he makes comments like that he'll be blocked. If I'm the one who issues the block, it'll be a minimum of 6 months, given his history. Wikipedia is not therapy for people who can't interact socially. Parsecboy (talk) 15:40, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Well said lads. Climbing down from my high horse... Anotherclown (talk) 15:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I think your concern is a valid one - we've always been a welcoming and friendly project and in my experience our members are some of the most reasonable, patient and tolerant people on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, the flip side is that our goodwill can be open to abuse, so you're right that there has to be a limit. Whatever opinion we might have of the outcome of Nick's perfectly correct block, WP:CONSENSUS is the system we agree to abide by... and WP:ROPE is perhaps also worth a read ;) EyeSerene^talk 16:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I didnt deleted my comments because i didnt wanted to conceal my words. If i had deleted them at least 2 editors would responded fast as possible with mentioning this! If somebody has eyepain with seeing my useless eruption i can delete. I was asked for apoligize, the concerns were correct so i apologized immediatly. That i didnt deleted the comment was no provocation or something like this. So again apologize to chaosdruid :-) Blablaaa (talk) 17:13, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

"Eyepain" indeed... a rather patronizing response if ever there was one, although I expected as much. Quite simply strike your comments out using the <s></s> mark up. This course of action has already been requested of you twice by another user, so I suggest you do so. Anotherclown (talk) 17:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I thought eyepain sounds funny, in german it does :-) .Regarind eyeseren attempt to raise old stuff. nicks block was indeed unjustifies which we saw when u eye, were not able to find any edit jutifing an block. mostly involded editors later said it was not correct u as heavly involded editor supported nick , maybe u think about. only a suggestion. regarding my eruption yesterday , it was far more a reason for a block than everything done before nicks "block". So maybe i have to say thank you to parcey for not blocking me again. cheers Blablaaa (talk) 17:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I originally referred to the previous issue, not EyeSerene... and I had nothing to do with any of those discussions. Regardless it is tangential to the issue at hand... Anotherclown (talk) 17:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyway I note that the comments in question have now been struck so I guess that's about as much as we can expect. Anotherclown (talk) 18:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I ask that Anotherclown strike the dirty cheap shot that he directed at me and apologize to me for his unjustified personal attack. It was rude, incivil and completely uncalled for! Caden ^cool 18:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

---

I found this on the wikiproject talk page and removed it. Marcus Qwertyus ^{(signs his posts)} 18:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I removed it but it was put back up *throws hands up in air*. Marcus Qwertyus ^{(signs his posts)} 18:50, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

AGF

Blablaaa, please do not make comments like this. No one involved in that discussion is trying to disrupt Wikipedia. You have differing interpretations, that's all.

I think part of the problem is that you're taking this a little too seriously. I know, because I did the same thing a couple years ago at the World War II article. But then I realized it's not that big of a deal, it wasn't worth my time, so I walked away from the article. Perhaps that would be the best option at this point; you could be much more productive if you weren't spending so much time arguing about these things. Parsecboy (talk) 11:18, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

And please redact the accusations of lying. I agree with Parsecboy, it is time for you to walk away. If you continue in this vein you must know you might get blocked. Dougweller (talk) 14:34, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

i made an accusation. iam ready to defend and prove this accusation. Enigma doenst want to find consense nor does he show good faith to me. If nobody of milhist shows enigma that other editors see his intention, than i will go to ani board or something else to search for people away from this group. Its a cheek to attack the guy who says liar to an guys which such a evil lie. But in general you are correct i will step back from articles involing enigma. Its not worth the time thats also correct, but in general i think my points are so correct that somebody will soon support me and than the issue will be resolved. I dont presume such long discussion for such obvious issues... .

Green

The use of green to delineate a quote, is probably not the best way to do it, either because the display units used do not emphasise the contrast well enough or for the colour blind that read the article. It is probably best to put it in italics or a different size, or use <blockquote>quoted string</blockquote> with or without the colour change. -- PBS (talk) 00:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

oki doki Blablaaa (talk) 03:32, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Blablaaa. Regarding this, please take a break. Ranger Steve looks to me like one of the better editors who's intentions are good. Yes, he may not understand the funny odd things that are happening but he's a good guy from what I've seen. I do agree with so much of your concerns and your concerns are very valid. But sadly, I'm not able to speak freely in further detail due to the boot stomping civility police, who are most ready to execute me if I say anything more. All I know is that weird things happen off wiki ie:MILHIST. Regardless, I think a small break could be good for you. Work on other articles for a short while. I mean this as a friend. Thanks. Caden ^cool 23:47, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I guess the infobox problem will not be solved anyways, so its maybe a good idea to let it go... Regarding steve for me its seems hes upset because he thinks he tried to help me and i accused him of double standart. Actually, critizing me multiple times for my behaviour but refusing to do same with other editors with the simple explanation "Quite frankly I couldn’t care less if Enigma did ‘lie’" is the definition of "double standart". Blablaaa (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

No, no, you did not "accuse" him of a double standard. You observed what appeared as a double standard. I'll agree with you on that. It can look that way. That's okay in my books to say but the civility police could twist that. They often do. "Observed" is the correct word I think that best describes what you meant to say. www translation doesnt always work with certain words or phrases in the English language. Therefore its impossible for it comly to the strict (over abused) WP:CIV or WP:NPA . Non-English speakers (such as both you and Igor) are left vulernable and open to misinterpretation by the boot stomping civility police. But yes, the infobox is a dead end. Let it go dude, it's not worth the headache. Caden ^cool 00:31, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Whatever :-) . Sometimes it seems that its all about using the correct words instead of having good intentions. Regarding the infobox you should talk a look at some talk pages. Sometimes they persistent want that the articles claims that german divisions were anhilated and at the next article they persistent want that this divisions now are counted as full divisions ^^ . I guess the fact that nobody except enigma really unambiguous claims the box is nowhere near "misleading" says much . I think people dont want to get involved in discussions against a editor with good "reputation" and i understand this... Blablaaa (talk) 00:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

July 2010

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Battle of Kursk. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If the edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. (Hohum ^@) 21:32, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

-.- Blablaaa (talk) 21:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Notification: apparent impersonator

Hello Blablaaa, just for your information, I just blocked Blablaaa1 (talk · contribs), who claimed to be you, but who I believe was in reality a banned user attempting to impersonate you. If that account actually was you, please let me know (and my apologies, in that case). Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:07, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Help

{{help}} where can i go for problems regarding the "misinterpretation" of sources? So if a reader keeps claiming that sources say other things that they actually say. Blablaaa (talk) 21:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

You could ask for input at the reliable sources or neutrality noticeboards, request a third opinion or general assistance, or go for other stages of dispute resolution process. Skomorokh 21:11, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

July 2010

Please do not attack other editors, as you did here: Talk:Operation Charnwood. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. GorillaWarfare ^talk 17:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Blablaaa. You have new messages at GorillaWarfare's talk page.
Message added 19:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Reduced posting on noticeboards

Please reduce your number of postings at Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#An_user_keeps_misinterpreting_a_source_to_support_their_POV. This is disruptive as this is not the place for involved editors to debate. You state your case, the other person states their's, and then you let people analyze. Also, as I mentioned, if you're going to make additional comments while waiting for a response, just update your original comment. You are seriously hurting your arguments and the noticeboard with the overposting. II | (t - c) 20:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC)