User talk:Jimbo Wales

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No right of reply? (cont'd)

A shame to archive this discussion. It is, and should be, ongoing. Please refer to the archive. Can we continue? We should look at the legal aspects of suppressing voices. It was well established, due to several attempts to sue WP for defamation (google "Wikipedia lawsuits"), that No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. (see Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act#Court Decisions on Section 230). This law may well make Wikipedia immune from lawsuits, but in my opinion, it lays a special moral responsibility on Wikipedia to provide fairness and a voice to those BLPs who feel they have been mistreated by the press - and I am one of them. See my website JohnClarkprose.com where I sued Larry King/CNN/Time-Warner, and challenged the Mail on Sunday for their style of reporting. But under the current rules, I am forbidden to add those facts to the article, and I feel strongly that were I to do so, it should not be a vulnerable entry, and subjected to instant deletion by other users for cause. There is one, Will Beback (an admin no less), who is practically ordering me to refrain from ever making an edit to any article in which I have a personal connection. See my talk page. JohnClarknew (talk) 16:57, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi JohnClarknew, are you perhaps misreading Will BeBack's statement? "I strongly suggest that you step back from editing articles in which you have an emotional investment and are unable to maintain neutrality." (emphasis mine). You will find information about such in WP:COI and WP:NPOV. And wouldn't filing an WP:RFC been the first appropriate step to take? Best, ROBERTMFROMLI ^TALK/_CNTRB 19:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

First off, I am a Wikipedian, and proud to be one. Second, I'm trying to show the big picture here. Wikipedia, the site that is, is legally immune. But the users? From what I read, users are vulnerable to lawsuits, and cannot claim protection under the cloak of Wikipedia. Perhaps that's why so many users refuse to reveal their true names, and prefer to remain anonymous. So be it. But this should be part of the discussion of policy towards BLP. I am strongly in favor of ABLP, as a solution. I think it is something to do with suppressing constitutionally protected free speech, (as Larry King and CNN did towards me in my defamation suit, where the court denied their S.L.A.P.P. petition), : Third person entries, not first person. And all existing rules and procedures should be followed. What's to be afraid of, anyway? I hope responders will first do a little due diligence before uttering further mantras. JohnClarknew (talk) 16:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

You fail to address the point I made about having filed an RfC being the first step to take, and failed to address that your beliefs do not trump policies (and that there are ways of proposing policy changes, which you also did not wait for it to come to a conclusion[1]), and fail to address the probability that you made an unfounded claim against another editor. None of that has to do with "further mantras". Best, ROBERTMFROMLI ^TALK/_CNTRB 22:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

There are some specific reasons I asked JohnClarknew to step away from certain articles, but I don't think it's helpful to rehash those here. Suffice it to say that there is no prohibition on adding relevant material found in reliable sources presented with the neutral point of view, and that self-published sources may be used in BLPs to present the views of BLP subjects and for other non-contentious assertions. However self-published sources may not be used for attacks on others.   Will Beback  talk  22:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

John Clark, please read this. - WAS 4.250 (talk) 23:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

(<---) No one's asking for a soapbox. You people are beating about the bush, lawyerspeak, and avoiding the central issue. It's not about allowing soapbox style free speech, it's about not suppressing a living notable's ability to make edits just like other users can. There's an editor-with-an-agenda who contributed a couple of obituaries plus the following to the John Clark (actor/director) page: Boshoff, Alison (2010-05-08). "The love child who broke Lynn Redgrave's heart: In the week the actress died, her ex-husband tells of his shame and regret". Daily Mail (Associated Newspapers Limited). Retrieved 2010-07-31. and ^ Dan Jewel (1999-03-29). "Bizarre 8 Year Secret Tears Apart Redgrave's Marriage.". People Magazine. In John Clark's webpage, he has this to say about that: Daily Mail at it AGAIN. But that piece of information is kept out of the page by the same editor-with-an-agenda. JohnClarknew (talk) 11:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

John Clark, I'm glad to hear that you are only asking for the "ability to make edits just like other users can". I had thought that you wanted more than that (like perhaps the ability to have your edits not subject to deletion like every other editor). All you have to do is to edit anonymously: from a library, a friend's computer, or just change your ISP and register under a user name like "Bob Smith" or "Old Tom". Then when your edits are deleted you will know that the edit is being judged based on its content and not based on the identity of the editor. Welcome to the "Anyone can edit. Anyone can delete. But find consensus rather than engage in an edit war"-pedia. - WAS 4.250 (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Direct contact?

Hi there, is there a way to contact you directly? I have concerns regarding receiving abuse from administrators, and related issues. Many thanks in advance. 82.152.216.15 (talk) 18:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

On the left of this page, click on E - mail this user. Off2riorob (talk) 18:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your response on behalf of Jimbo Wales, but I have to say that the "e-mail this user" link isn't there. 82.152.216.15 (talk) 18:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I believe you have to be a registered user to use that function. Hazardous Matt (talk) 18:31, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Or just read the last sentence on his user page under "contact me", where it says:

"Other inquiries of any kind can be sent by e-mail to jwaleswikia.com. (Press inquiries by e-mail are also welcome.)"

He's pretty good about prompt replies. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 18:58, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks, I didn't see it the first time. 82.152.216.15 (talk) 19:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

'Tis about me no doubt. Theresa Knott | Hasten to trek 19:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

For reference, this is in regard to an AN/I discussion located here:[2]. Best, Rob ROBERTMFROMLI ^TALK/_CNTRB 19:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah Theresa Knott.... Cussing out the IPs again? Wales will be upset. (note sarcasm). NickCT (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Again? I did it more than once? I am innnnnnoccenttt I tell ya! This particular IP is enjoying the drama far too much to stop just yet a while. Theresa Knott | Hasten to trek 20:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections RfC

Hello Jimbo. You might be interested in keeping an eye or commenting on this ongoing RfC about the upcoming ArbCom elections, as the outcome could have implications for your role in appointing the successful candidates. Best, Skomorokh 16:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I am watching it, but so far I see nothing that implicates or impacts my role in appointing the ArbCom at all. I expect this year to be a routine year.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I had in mind specifically the Statement by Risker, motivated by these perennial concerns. Regards, Skomorokh 09:54, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I suppose the core question here is what I am supposed to do in the event that there are fewer than 18 arbitrators available with at least 50% support? The options would include, at least in theory, that I appoint someone who ran but gained less than 50% support, or that I appoint fewer than 18, or that I extend terms of existing arbs who weren't running for election, or that I appoint people on the advice of the arbcom and others based on past experience, or that I call for a second round of elections. Risker's proposal would suggest that I remove some of those options - precisely the ones that I wouldn't consider in the first place, though.

We traditionally have annual elections, but I have the right to call additional interim elections in case of a shortfall in staffing. What I think would make sense is that if, at the end of the election, we have a shortfall of a seat or two, I would likely treat it the same way I treat resignations throughout the year... basically, I would leave the seats vacant. If we had a bizarre situation in which there is a serious difficulty in finding candidates with at least 50% approval at all, I think it would be wise to consider that a serious signal that something has gone wrong with the entire process, and I would call for a wide-ranging discussion about ArbCom composition, function, etc.

One of the core advantages of our traditional "constitutional monarchy" system is precisely that in case of breakdown of process in some way - which is bound to happen although hopefully less and less frequently over the years as we gain experience and deal with various issues, we have an "answer", which is that I am theoretically free to dismiss ArbCom and even dismantle the entire system in favor of something else.

Imagine if the ArbCom angers 51% of the community, and a poll is held which involves 51% of the community demanding that the entire ArbCom resign immediately. Or imagine your own favorite meltdown scenario. There is no rule or policy which would give the general community the right to do something like that, and there are good arguments against it. (One thing we want from our judges is a certain amount of political independence and the ability to take unpopular decisions that are right for the encyclopedia, within bounds of course.) We have the choice of either trying to a priori figure out every possible thing relating to such scenarios, or we have the choice of what we do now: don't worry about it and try to do something sensible based on whatever the conditions are at that time. I think that's a good thing to continue. :)

I am happy when there are processes (like Risker's RfC in this case) that give me sensible guidance, not specific to a particular possibly inflamed situation) as to what to do in weird circumstances. It is my strong preference to do nothing at all, rather acting as a conduit and insurance that thoughtful and deliberate moves aimed at broad consensus in support of our encyclopedic mission is always the guiding principle.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Your user page

I feel stupid asking you this because your the founder and probably have a reason for it. Your user page gets vandalized daily, why don't you protect it? Inka888^ContribsTalk 22:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Because there are enough people watching and defending it? :) Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 23:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks, I was hoping to hear from Jimbo about it. Inka888^ContribsTalk 03:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Inka 888, you pretty much can... go to his userpage, and read what he wrote in the bottom box. It directly addresses the question you have posed. Best, Robert ROBERTMFROMLI ^TALK/_CNTRB 04:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons that cite no sources, again

You and your lurkers may like to lurk at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Unsourced biographies of living persons. Uncle G (talk) 19:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)