Talk:Competition between Airbus and Boeing

Focus on orders instead of revenue

This article is quite good, but the focus is very heavy on the number of orders for each manufacturer, which is a bit misleading. An order for an A320 is in no way equal to an order for an A380. For this reason, I think revenue would be a much better indicator of how the companies are doing in terms of competition. Either that, or total value of orders. 64.32.151.34 (talk) 16:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC) (BonusOnus)

The individual prices paid for planes by airlines is commercially secret and isnt released, revenue is a good additional indicator but cant be directly compared due to the additional non-commercial aircraft activities of Boeing and Airbus parent EADS such as warplanes, research contracts, weapons, etc... WatcherZero (talk) 18:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Attempting to compare the costs of individual deals would be a sisyphean task, considering the size of the market that A and B have divided between them. Overall revenue is easier to keep track of. Generally speaking, the military divisions are operationally separate and it's possible to get separate figures; although I don't doubt that both A and B indulge in a little transfer pricing from time to time, that's likely to be a very small distortion of the airliner business' figures. Simply counting aircraft ignores the complexity of the mix - you might as well say that Cessna is a bigger manufacturer than A and B combined. bobrayner (talk) 10:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Number of planes is a good ready reckoner because A & B compete across almost identical markets, (unlike Cessna). Revenue or value of planes would be of interest but maybe impractical to obtain. Profitability of both would be easy from annual reports but that does not indicate the influence each have on the industry or whose planes we are likely to be seeing flying around. Keep the plane numbers, everybody can understand that and it tells a story. Ex nihil ^(talk) 00:37, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

• This is the straightforward and fair way to go here. They will sell airliners for below list prices at times, such as for launch customers and large orders. Revenue is also made sale of parts and support. -Fnlayson (talk) 01:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Wait, what? Revenue would be impractical to obtain? Well, I suppose many folk tend to approach this article from an aviation-fan angle and might not be familiar with the basics of financial reporting :-)

Airbus: Google Airbus 2010 annual report and click on the first result. Open the "financial statements" PDF. Scroll down to the segment reporting table; Airbus revenue was €27,067m in 2010 (EADS total was €45752m).

Boeing: Google Boeing 2010 annual report and click on the first result. Scroll down to the first big table of numbers. Boeing Commercial Aircraft revenue was $31834m in 2010 (Boeing total was $64306m).

Revenue is the most basic number a business can report. Revenue also reflects the mix of aircraft types (if A sells more expensive aircraft than B, A's revenue is higher) and it also reflects discounting (If A has to slash prices to get sales, A's revenue is lower). $1 or €1 is a fixed amount, so you can put two numbers together and compare them fairly, but the value/importance of an aircraft is definitely not fixed and the two are making different aircraft, so you can't put two numbers of planes together and compare them fairly. bobrayner (talk) 02:01, 29 July 2011 (UTC)