Talk:Murder of Meredith Kercher

Cartwheel?

The article (5 Dec 2011) contains the following paragraph:

"On 5 November, Sollecito was called to the police station, arriving there around 10:15 pm, accompanied by Knox.[58] The police had been listening to Knox and Sollecito's telephone conversations, and knew her mother was due to arrive from Seattle on 6 November; Burleigh writes that 5 November might have been the last night police could question Knox without a lawyer, parent, or the American Embassy being involved.[59] While Sollecito was being interviewed, also without a lawyer, Knox remained in a waiting room, doing yoga stretches as was her habit. Shortly after 10:30 pm, according to Knox, a male police officer asked how she had become so flexible and for her to demonstrate some moves. She performed a cartwheel, just as Rita Ficarra, one of the officers who had been interviewing Knox for days, was entering the police station. Ficarra was shocked, seeing the behaviour as suspicious."[60]

Whether Knox actually performed a cartwheel is in dispute and it is stated as an absolute fact in the article. This is a description of events from a more Knox friendly author (http://www.vashonloop.com/article/amanda-knox-cartwheels-and-confessions):

"After sitting for some time, she stood up to stretch and did what was described as the Big Toe Pose; bent over at the waist, fingers touching toes, let your breath out slowly. Yoga, a great tool for stretching and breathing, was how Amanda calmed herself; I imagine she was doing a lot of yoga in the aftermath of Meredith’s slaying. Of course in Seattle Yoga is not unusual, but in Perugia it seemed eccentric."

"A male officer observing Amanda commented that she was very flexible and she chatted that she had been a gymnast as a child, glad for the conversation. He asked if she could do the splits and she complied. NO CARTWHEEL! In fact, Edda says, “the room she was in was far too small to accomplish a cartwheel.” The interaction lasted a moment or two and Amanda settled down to continue her homework. Her actions were at worst adolescent, but never malicious."

Knox denies performing a cartwheel and confirms that she did the splits. Her story seems credible and to state it as fact that she is lying seems a stretch from NPOV to me.

--Davefoc (talk) 06:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Follain says several unnamed detectives saw her doing yoga stretches, Napoleoni is named as seeing the cartwheel. It was leaked that AK did a cartwheel and later Profazio, the former head of the Perugia Flying Squad, testified at the trial that unnamed police had told him that Knox did cartwheels, but no one actually testified to seeing her do it. The wording could be altered to make clear that was an allegation.Overagainst (talk) 18:47, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Correction- Det Inspector Rita Ficarra testified she came out a lift into the 'waiting room' (sounds more like a like a foyer) and saw /reprimanded AK (for) doing 'bridges, backbends and cartwheels'. Follain says Napoleoni saw Knox doing a cartwheel when she came to use a vending machine. But, Inspector Lorena Zugarini, also testified she looked in on Knox and saw Knox doing cartwheels and the splits but in a 'side room' and told her off. So at least two separate incidents, possibly in different locations. A foyer /waiting room might have room to do what could be properly described as a cartwheel but a 'side room'? What Knox was seen doing were not cartwheels IMO but much more likely what the police called cartwheels. I think that she was doing advanced yoga poses (as suggested by the reference to 'bridges, backbends' and some of them looked enough like cartwheels for those three to call them that. So it's what the article calls it - an allegation. Overagainst (talk) 15:46, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

"The wording could be altered to make clear that was an allegation." I think it should be. A lot of claims against Knox turned out to be false, many of them promulgated by the police department. Claims about Knox for which the police department is the only source are particularly suspect. --Davefoc (talk) 06:46, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Further clarification Knox did not demurr when Mignini asked at trial about "the wheel", (not wheel's') so Dempsey's account is probaby more or less correct. She did a cartwheel on the night of the 5th Nov in response to a request from a policeman (who may be the one who struck up a conversation with Amanda without identifing himself as a cop)) to show some moves while waiting beside the lifts outside the Flying Squad offices on the third floor. Monica Napoleoni testified to seeing Amanda do a (not more than one) cartwheel at around 11pm on November 5th that's possible and supports the idea that the man who asked her to 'demonstrate some moves' was the cop who pretended he was just a bystander who wanted to talk. It wasn't really a side room but a small foyer-like area I think. Lorena Zugarini reportedly testified she saw Knox do a cartwheel, that's possible if the offices have glass in the doors or Knox was under covert observation.Ficarra testifed to seeing cartwheels I think that is untrue as more than one cartwheel would take up too much room.Overagainst (talk) 10:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Witnesses

The Witnesses section should probably be eliminated if it's just going to list Formica. That's undue weight. Also I'm not sure I like where this going with key witnesses like Capezzalli and Curatolo relegated to a brief mention in the trial section. This is rewriting history from the standpoint of "Knox and Sollecito are declared innocent, therefore the witnesses are not witnesses." Brmull (talk) 08:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Capezzalli herself says she often heard screams and disturbance at night. It is a bad area Kercher saw an intruder in the grounds of the cottage in mid October. Capezzalli heard but didn't need (or bother) looking out the window to see where the noise came from. She claimed to have found out about the murder before it had been discovered. Curatolo was a Jun-key (professional)witness. Tacit permission to deal drugs in exchange for testimony IMO. Hellman dismisses him. Was Kokomani a 'witness' ? Overagainst (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Weasel words tag

Could you be be specific about problems please?; simply copy and paste the text of the article and (include the ref nos) and what you think are the 'weasel words', or cite specific text you object to on any other grounds and explain why. Overagainst (talk) 15:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Just scan for "however" as a start and then click the links provided in the editsummary to find out more about what words can be seen as "weasel words" and why (if it's not to much effort for a long term SPA account to learn some rules, especially those that were clearly pointed out.TMCk (talk) 01:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
And one step (issue) at the time if I may be "allowed" to suggest so.TMCk (talk) 01:34, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Trivia and weasel words

I'd be appreciated if Overagainst would let the "bored off" editors know when he's done with adding random trivia which is not directly related for understanding the subject of the article. I also expect him to clean up many accounts of weasel words he added so the "weasel word tag" can be removed to make space for others. We're still writing an encyclopedia the last time I checked. Thanks.TMCk (talk) 01:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Again, be specific please. Give the text in the article which is objected to and cite relevant Wikipedia guidlines in support of the objections. Unless this is done how can there be a discussion? Overagainst (talk) 19:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think tagging the article as a whole is particularly helpful, but I need a scotch and some aspirin before I can read this article again and try to figure out what the latest issues are. Will try to get to it this weekend :) Brmull (talk) 07:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Photo of Guede

The article needs a photo of Guede in my opinion. Is the the mugshot released when he was at large now in the public domain ? If so could someone upload it please. Overagainst (talk) 19:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I uploaded it here. The copyright status of mugshots in Italy is unclear but it was released by the police and distributed on all the wire services, so I think it'll pass muster with the copyright admins. Brmull (talk) 06:59, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Overagainst (talk) 13:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully it will stand this time. I had uploaded it...and it was deleted at commons. This discussion held some of the rationales but there are other places in the archive where it was discussed also. Then I believe I uploaded it for Fair-use here and that didn't stand but I can't locate that deletion discussion but I found this one.

A good number of the images that I uploaded for this article were deleted. :(
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 15:35, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Appeal of slander charge

I am enjoying my hiatus from editing this article, but thought that someone may want to update with the following information:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-02-07/amanda-knox-slander-conviction/53000788/1

LedRush (talk) 19:06, 8 February 2012 (UTC)