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January 24

Public Primary State schools in Ogba Lagos

A comprehensive write up on ohow to locate Public Primary State schools in Ogba Lagos? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.58.24.12 (talk) 10:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I imagine we are talking Nigeria here ... while some Wikipedia articles are "how to", it is not a major emphasis of this project. We don't as much content as we should in African areas. It would probably take someone in Nigeria and with access to print sources to do it.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

List of schools in Nigeria#Lagos State has a list of schools in Lagos State, but only a couple have any further links. You could try the Lagos State Government, which runs state schools, and Yell Nigeria which lists schools. Astronaut (talk) 12:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

making an demostration of play

machine-translated nonsense removed — Lomn 19:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Original responses

OK, some general advice, speaking from the perspective of a one-time professional text editor . . . . This story is of course not your original creation, it is a paraphrased version of the very well-known English legend of The Lambton Worm, so it would be of no interest on the grounds of being a new and original story. You appear not to be a native English speaker, and the piece would need very considerable editing by a competent English speaker to render it acceptable for a performance of any kind. It's so poorly written that I can only follow much of it because I am already familiar with the legend in various forms, both spoken and sung. It strikes me as suspiciously like something that might have been created by pushing the text of the Wikipedia article linked above through multiple iterations of Google Translate and then chopping out the more extreme sections of resulting gobbledegook. Even allowing for corrected grammar, vocabulary, and so on, this rendition still seems to me very inadequate in its general structure and presentation, with many chunks of necessary storyline missing. However well written, any piece intended for public performance will only be successful if it is well performed, and the quality of the performance is the most important factor. A really skilled performer may be able to present even an indifferently good piece entertainingly, at least in his/her own language. Do you have such performance skills? If all of the above problems were adequately addressed, there are in the UK a number of theatrical and folk-music festivals, County shows, and similar events where a well-written, interestingly presented and well-performed rendition of The Lambton Worm might be welcome, but I will leave it to others more familiar with such events' organisations, and umbrella arts bodies that might be relevant, to exercise AGF and comment further if they choose. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.103 (talk) 14:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC) Anybody can stage a play at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, the world's largest arts festival.[1] You will have to pay the costs of staging the work, but registration is still open for August this year: see here for information. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Chinese zodiac

Why isn't there a panda? --108.225.115.211 (talk) 23:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you read Chinese_zodiac#Zodiac_origin_stories? The twelve signs of the zodiac seem to relate to 12 time periods in the day, with an animal associated with them. Evidently, pandas weren't seen as doing anything significant enough at a particular time of day to merit inclusion? In any case, the list is seemingly arbitrary, and there are other animals (real or imaginary) that failed to get included. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

You may also want to read Giant panda#Uses and human interaction particularly the last sentence which says:

The comparative obscurity of the giant panda throughout most of China's history is illustrated by the fact that, despite there being a number of depictions of bears in Chinese art starting from its most ancient times, and the bamboo being one of the favorite subjects for Chinese painters, there are no known pre-20th-century artistic representations of giant pandas

In other words the panda wasn't really that significant in Chinese culture until recently, so there's no real reason to expect there would be a panda. Nil Einne (talk) 05:02, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

A good point, though I'm not sure that the relationship between 'obscurity' and lack of cultural significance is always that straightforward. Unless we've got something fundamentally wrong in our understanding of Chinese fauna, the dragon seems to have achieved a great deal of significance for a creature that takes its level of 'obscurity' to the extreme of not actually existing. Not that this is exceptional - the UK has taken the lion and the unicorn as its emblems, despite the lack of the former amongst British wildlife, and the lack of the latter anywhere except in imagination. I think the lesson here is that in a mythological context we have a bestiary of real and imagined species to construct our tales around, and we select the ones that most suit our purposes... AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:24, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Dragons may not exist, but they are in no way obscure. They are well-known in a number of cultures, so they may well be based on long-ago-distorted memories of something real (and dangerous). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Wise-cracking carrot-munching rabbits likewise exist in a number of cultures (along with other creatures, including Coyotes that actually exhibit cunning, rather than stupidity). This tells us little about the intelligence of real rabbits. Instead, it illustrates how we construct our imaginary world with whatever is at hand, real or mythological. I see no more reason why our ancestors should be assumed to lack the imagination to construct 'dragons' out of thin air than we are to construct your namesake, Bugs... AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:01, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes as even the article panda notes, dragons have been significant in Chinese culture for a long time, they can't really be consider obscure in Chinese culture. (As BB said, the fact they are fictious doesn't mean they are obscure.) Our article on dragons notes there are depictions of dragons in China dating back to the 16th century BC. (This obviously compares to what I linked above which our article notes on the panda.) I didn't mention earlier but our article also mentions they may have been thought of as 'rare and noble creatures' and how the mother of an emperor was buried with a skull and how pandas may have been given to Japan by someone else. But otherwise it conveys the impression that historically, pandas just weren't really that important even if some people may have known about them and there may have been legends and postive views of them etc. Nil Einne (talk) 12:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

January 25

Picture on user page

Can i just copy a picture from Wikimedia Commons to my user page directly? If not, what do I do? Rosalina2427 (talk) 00:06, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Your user page on Wikipedia, or someplace else?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, my user page. Rosalina2427 (talk) 00:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

If you wish to use a Commons picture on your user page, I'd use the Template:Image and just link to it. This is allowed from Commons, because all Images there are free to use. On the contrary, non-free images with fair-use claims cannot be used on one's user page (like album covers, movie posters and the like). --McDoobAU93 00:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the help. Rosalina2427 (talk) 00:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

What boy-names are not known to belong to anyone who has committed severe crimes?

There are so many baby names to choose from, and I'd like to find criteria to narrow them down.

Therefore, is there any boy name that never belonged to anyone who murdered, raped nor robbed? If so, where do you find this info? Thanks.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1874955,00.html

--129.130.97.69 (talk) 00:08, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

You're going to need such a rare name to find one that has never committed a major crime, that you might do better to invent your own name. StuRat (talk) 00:18, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec) You're asking us to come up with a list of all the males in the entire world who've ever been convicted of murder, rape or robbery? We're good, but not that good. I feel quite safe in saying that such a list does not exist, and it would take an extraordinary commitment of resources to produce it - basically, a life's work. And it would never be complete. You might discover that no Murgatroyd has ever been known to commit such a crime, but next week along comes a murderous Murgatroyd and you'll have to start looking all over again for a name for your baby (who might be an adult by now). -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 00:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

...the Murgatroyds became notorious "for their profanity and debauchery, and members of the family were fined, imprisoned and excommunicated". Mitch Ames (talk) 02:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Even if you succeeded (which inevitably entails cursing your child with some daft D&D-eque nonsense name) you have no guarantee the name won't be besmirched by someone else (driven to madness by the teasing their loonietune name has brought them). Adolf was a perfectly nice respectable name for centuries. "No, you confuse me with someone else. I'm not Zaluphrackx the cannibal of Saratov, I'm Zaluphrackx the tax accountant from Stevenage." 87.113.28.157 (talk) 02:02, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, if prisoner's names and their crimes were publicly available you can go get that info and compare it with a list of common names. Might need to let a computer handle that though. -- œ^™ 02:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I would note that the article you linked to would suggest giving your child an obscure or more likely made up name, which is likely to be needed if it really never belonged to anyone who murdered, raped or robbed may not be doing them any favours. In fact it seems to suggest giving them a common (in say the UK or US) name like Michael has its advantages even thought there undoutedly many Micheals falling in to those categories. So I'm not sure the relevance of the link to your question. Nil Einne (talk) 02:13, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it suggest you name them "Bob". Heiro 02:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

While that's the specific example given of what to name your child, earlier on it strong implies Michael and David aren't too bad too (although Michael is probably better then David). In any case Robert doesn't meet the op's criteria either so it still proves my point. Nil Einne (talk) 12:08, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Sideshow Bob probably hasn't helped the image of that name. HiLo48 (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Another thing to consider is that, just because a "Ferdinand", say, has never committed a rape, murder or robbery, does not mean they haven't committed any manner of other nefarious deeds - tax avoidance, incest, drink driving, farnarkling ... Far more positive would be to find someone you regard as a role model* and name your kid after them, than to try to do it in the negative way you're suggesting. (* "Role model" here means "role model, warts and all", because if you're looking for someone who never did anything they were or should be ashamed of, you're out of luck on planet Earth, I'm afraid.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 03:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

You could narrow the list down considerably by looking strictly for your own last name in the list, and avoiding first names whose combination matches that of notorious characters. Like if your last name is Gacy, don't name your son after John Wayne. If your last name is Bundy, stay away from Ted and Al. If your last name is Mudd, consider legally changing it to something else. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong with Harcourt? --Trovatore (talk) 09:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

"Harcourt! Harcourt Fenton Mudd, what have you been up to? Nothing good, I'm sure. Well, let me tell you, you lazy, good-for-nothing ..." -- ToE 10:55, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Little boys named Ralph134fhnlkphylzbroomph have never been known to transgress any laws, rules, customs, guidelines, or policies. Edison (talk) 05:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The article briefly addresses the fact that the unpopular names seem to be associated with stigmatized classes and single families. The great flaw that I see here is that they seem to assume that it's the name itself that causes the higher rate of problems. How much does the fact that their example "Alec" might be associated with a lower class (which unfortunately is often associated with higher crime), have to do with the rate of becoming a criminal, rather than the fact that the person is named Alec, not David? While it is probably true, for example, that more people named José speak Spanish natively than English, it would likewise be be a fallacy to say that if you, not a Spanish speaker, name your kid José, he will be more likely to speak Spanish as his first language. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's however the kind of logic I see at work in this article. Falconus^{p t c} 09:29, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me the article does address that to some extent:

The name doesn't cause the crime, of course, and the way people react to the name isn't the only other factor at work. Rather, boys with unpopular names are likelier to live in single-parent households and have less money.

I'm pretty sure they aren't saying the name caused them to live in a single parent household or a household with less money. Instead, they're saying what you said. (This is about all they say on that as they then go back to the reactions of others to the name bit.) The bigger problem is they perhaps give too much emphasis to the importance of reactions of other people (and the people with the names), possibly without sufficient evidence it is that important to why people with 'unpopular' or otherwise 'unsuitable' names have problems.

However the third paragraph seems to suggest there is some evidence perceptions of the name can be a factor in how people react to the person and how the person perceives themselves. (Rather than there just being evidence for a correlation between problems in life and the unpopularity of names.) In their penultimate and final paragraph they also note that there can be contradictory factors, for example for an African American to have a name strongly associated with African Americans may have an improved sense of self (according to some research). But they suggest later it may cause sufficient negative reactions from others to outweigh that improvement. They effectively earlier gave an example of one possible negative reaction although I suspect however they lack sufficient evidence for the specific claim it may not outweight the other advantage/s.

(Although not specifically mentioned in their article, I believe there is some evidence that such a name may indeed cause the example they gave of it being more difficult to get a job. Definitely I know and have mentioned before on the RD that there is evidence in a number of European countries like France and the UK, having a name associated with 'immigrants' results in more rejections when seeking jobs. I seem to recall finding something showing the same for African Americans in the US. The evidence for this usually comes in the form of randomly sending out the same C.V. with different names.)

Nil Einne (talk) 12:18, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

See UUID. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

On the other hand, some folks look for excuses for criminal behavior. Peter Schmuck and Ima Hogg are rather dreadful names, but they have/had productive lives. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:50, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

see this --190.60.93.218 (talk) 19:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC) or this Wolfe+585, Senior --190.60.93.218 (talk) 19:58, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Oddness in the tz database

Indiana's different tz database zones. Crawford County is the sixth county from the left along the state's southern border.

Each different color in this map shows a different entry in the tz database for the US state of Indiana. Why is Crawford County given its own entry? Despite the plentiful changes in time zone boundaries affecting time in Indiana, Crawford County's time hasn't changed since 1967 (the database only shows changes since 1970, so that shouldn't matter), and it's been on the same time as Orange County to the immediate north ever since the idea of standard time was first implemented in the area. A few counties east of Crawford and the counties on the southern end of the state's eastern border also haven't officially changed time, but they often (unofficially) observed daylight saving time when the rest of the state didn't; however, our Time in Indiana article doesn't speak of Crawford observing daylight time until the rest of the state (the yellow areas) also started. Nyttend (talk) 03:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

You clearly are very familiar with this topic. You are unlikely to find much aid at a general reference desk. Can I suggest a more specialized venue?--Wehwalt (talk) 09:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Two Google News articles provide some insight. This article states that parts of Crawford County started observing daylight saving time prior to 2006; the snippet available of this article, from 2004, suggests that half the county observed DST at that point. Warofdreams talk 12:33, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The Dewar Cup presented by Thomas R Dewar Esq

I have a silver plated goblet style 28 cm high cup which has the following inscription on it "The Dewar Cup presented by Thomas R Dewar Esq Sheriff of London 1897-8". I am trying to find out what it was presented for and to whom. The cup has a Mappin and Webb stamp on the base plus W5528 and JP. There are four 'shield' areas on it one of which has the inscription inside it, two others have floral decorations and one is empty, presumably that would have been where the holder could have had their name inscribed. The cup is decorated in an ornate floral and swag style decoration and I would like to know more about it. The cup came from a house in the Highbury and Islington area of London and was given to us in the 1970s. I know Thomas Dewar gave out various trophies to different sporting organisations but cannot find any reference to a goblet style cup. Can anyone help?Dkm22sjm (talk) 10:02, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Could you upload a photo somewhere and provide a link here. It might help in identification. Astronaut (talk) 13:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Well there is an article on a Dewar Cup presented by Thomas Dewar, 1st Baron Dewar but it looks nothing like the one described. While there are no English articles there is the French series, Dewar Cup Aberavon, Dewar Cup Billingham, Dewar Cup Torquay and Dewar Cup Final women's tennis tournaments held in the UK, but this indicates men played as well. Of course none of them have a picture and a look at "dewar cup" tennis is no help. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:10, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Dewar didn't restrict himself to tennis, either. For example, this book notes that a Dewar Cup for school football teams based in London was first awarded in 1898. That sounds quite a plausible thing to give out a fairly generic trophy for - but without any further details, it could be for any of various competitions. Warofdreams talk 13:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

As the cup has a Mappin & Webb stamp on it, it may be possible to trace some more of its history through Cutlers Hall in Sheffield, where all silversmiths in the city were required to register. Mappin & Webb themselves may have more detailed records if you approach them. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I doubt it. I haven't seen a picture, but a 28cm cup in a goblet style in electroplated base metal would almost certainly be a stock item engraved after it left the premises. Yes, Mappin & Webb also made items in sterling, still do in fact, but as I recall, non-silver items were completely unregulated, which is why you see such items with "hallmarks" that vaguely resemble sterling hallmarks but aren't. You could contact Mappin & Webb, but I am very dubious they could help you beyond possibly giving you a pattern number. It does not sound like a commission or special order.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the text on the cup does give us a clue. Dewar was knighted in 1902, so it must have been awarded at some point between 1898 and 1902. He was an MP from 1900, so it was probably given out before that - 1898 seems a likely date for the actual award of the cup, not just his shrievalty. I'd suggest that, given that it states that he was Sheriff of London, it's most likely to be something awarded in London. There may well be no way of proving this, but the school football competition seems a good bet - perhaps the London Football Association might have something in their records. Warofdreams talk 13:58, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

After a rain, will an area of woods burn?

I'm writing a book. The scene takes place in the hills of Kentucky. If it has just rained/sleeted, will an area of woods burn completely? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.124.96 (talk) 15:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends on what stared the fire / the amount of heat available; and indeed on the sorts of trees in the wood. The amount of potential energy available for combustion in a wood far far exceeds the amount needed to evaporate water from the heaviest rainfall. If there's enough heat available, fire will continue. If not, not. As to wood types: some woods have far more oils in them than others and so burn better - think broom or pine, for instance. There are lots of other variables, but if you as author wish the wood to burn, you can legitimately make it so. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, you may want to put in some foreshadowing. A mention that underbrush has not been cleared, perhaps for environmental reasons (to protect an endangered insect, for example).--Wehwalt (talk) 15:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Underbrush is hardly ever cleared in the U.S. A more realistic premise is that fires in the area have been suppressed for decades to protect surrounding property owners. As a result, a dense litter of deadwood has accumulated on the forest floor. Once this litter is ignited (lightning strike?), it spreads the fire through the forest, quickly evaporating the moisture from the recent precipitation. The intensity of the flames due to all that fuel produces a firestorm that overwhelms firefighters. Marco polo (talk) 19:51, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Fire's also more likely if, before the rain, the woods had suffered a drought. That way, once the rain stops falling, the woods is still drier than its natural state. --M@rēino 22:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The chemical residue of certain industrial products (now hopefully all identified and limited) might be deposited over a certain area, affecting burning. Dru of Id (talk) 01:41, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know much about Kentucky, but in the UK, coniferous forests burn quite well in the summer, but broadleaf woodland really doesn't under any circumstances. I remember a quote from a Forestry Commission official who said that traditional English woodland "burns like damp asbestos". Alansplodge (talk) 12:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Poor soil, common in the hills of the US South, promotes the growth of pines. The ground gets a thick layer of pine needles and pine cones. The mat of pine needles would easily shed rainfall on a hillside. The oil in the living pines as well as the layer of needles on the ground contain oil which burns quickly and hot. I would expect a pine forest to burn extremely well even if it has recently rained. If the woods were hardwood, and it had been raining in the winter (yes, there would be periods warm enough for rain in the winter) or in the spring, the bare damp limbs with wet bark would not be easy to ignite. A brushpile is easier to ignite than a standing tree, naturally. The topography is a factor, since fires find it easy to burn their way up a hillside. In the story, a match or cigarette dropped in a brushpile at the bottom of a hillside with a stand of pine trees and cedars would be a very plausible way to get a conflagration going right after a rain. Edison (talk) 20:24, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

The time of year when sleet is experienced, is when the relative air humidity is high – (above 45%). One does not get spreading wildfires at this time of year because everything is damp and the vapour pressure ensure that it goes deep. Forest-litter needs to be reasonable dry before a small fire can grow to a major conflagration. The Russian nuclear test just burnt the leaves off the trees, scorched the grass and left behind a loads of crispy roast duck. Therefore, I think that your proposed scenario lacks credibility. Just curious: what is the causative agent, that you want to lead to this mega barbecue inferno? --Aspro (talk) 20:57, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

unusual toys

A while ago, I promised my brother that I would get him all the toys from winnie-the-pooh, which he still seems to quite like. So far, I think I have done quite well, but his birthday is coming up and I am having a little difficulty finding any more. I need to get kanga, owl and rabbit still, anyone have any ideas where I can find toys of these characters around?

148.197.81.179 (talk) 17:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a shopping advice site. Try eBay.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, slightly different question, anyone know of a specialist website/online shop that might sell toys such as these, something like www.winnie-the-pooh-toys.com or some such. 148.197.81.179 (talk) 17:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Disney Stores sell a range of Pooh merch. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:18, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The Disney versions can be found here). I don't much like them myself. I think there are better ones. Bielle (talk) 17:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

All the toys from Winnie the Pooh? That might cost you a fair bit, [2], [3]--Jac16888 ^Talk 12:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a lot of toy plastic kangaroos available at Australian tourist resorts, almost all made in China. I'm sure several would have online merchandising outlets. HiLo48 (talk) 21:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I quite like the disney ones, and I'm sure he would too, but I'm not so keen on the prices. I have a friend in pyru so I ventured over there and asked, I figure they will know better than anyone. 148.197.81.179 (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Wooden Box (Cabot Collopakes)

I have a wooden box with the label on it that states "Cabot Collopakes, Samuel Cabot, New York Chemists Manufacturing, Chicago, Boston". It is a very old box with intricate dove tail corners. I have asked many people old & young if they have ever heard of them or know what they are to no avail. Can you help. Thanks! D. Mills — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.26.80.138 (talk) 17:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Seems to be paint. This google search should help. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) What do you want to know? Collopaking was a pigment-grinding process used in paint manufacture by Cabot, patented in 1922; the name "Cabot Collopakes" was trademarked in 1966.[4][5][6] Cabot's company still exists - here is their website so you could ask them. (edited to change link to company) --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

more here. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

New York City not capital of New York

I can understand why New York City is not the capital of the United States despite being one of the most famous and most populous cities of the nation, as it is better to have the capital governed directly by the nation instead of any state, but why isn't New York City even the capital of New York? JIP | Talk 20:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Because it is Albany... Now, if you want to know the reason why it is Albany instead of New York City, the reason is that New York City is not New York State; though it is the most populous city it isn't centrally located, which in any time period before right now, was an important factor in picking an administrative center for a state. Most states chosen state capitals were picked for their central location rather than their population; c.f. Springfield, Illinois, Raleigh, North Carolina, Sacramento, California, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Jefferson City, Missouri, Montpelier, Vermont, Concord, New Hampshire, Augusta, Maine, Columbia, South Carolina, and I am seriously growing weary of listing these so I'll stop now, but the list is even longer. New York State is a bit of a strange shape, basically a sideways "T", and Albany is basically at the intersection of the "T" making it ideally suited for administerring said shape. More on Albany specifically: The New York State Capital shuffled around a lot, it was occasionally New York City, but more often it was Albany or another nearby city like Poughkeepsie or Kingston. In 1797 it was permanently made Albany, likely because of its key location along the junction of two major river valleys (the Mohawk River and Hudson River) made travel easy, the creation of the Erie Canal made Albany an even more important transportation hub in the state. --Jayron32 20:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I seriously doubt that Sacramento was chosen for its central location, looking at the state as a whole. You can't understand that period in California history without understanding the California gold rush. Sacramento was very near gold territory. The (a?) previous capital, Auburn, California, was even closer, but farther from San Francisco. So my guess would be, yes, central location, but central between gold mining and San Francisco, not central for the entire state. No one much cared what was going on in San Diego. --Trovatore (talk) 21:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I can't seem to find anything confirming my claim that Auburn was the capital. --Trovatore (talk) 22:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Sacramento nearly lost out to Downieville when it came to selecting a state capital in 1853, at least according to a plaque in the town center. Astronaut (talk) 12:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at a map of California by county. That will tell you where the population was when they were divvying up the spoils. The worst located capital, by present day standards of course, is Juneau.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Another factor to consider is that much or most of the money in New York State has always been concentrated in relatively few hands in and around New York City. Meanwhile, before the mid-1800s or so, most of the state's population was rural. New York State residents (mostly farmers) were probably reluctant to site the state government in New York City where the rich city elite might more easily control it. Incidentally, much of New York City's elite had been loyal to the British. Siting the capital elsewhere in the state (and particularly in a place more easily accessible from many parts of the state, as Jayron32 explains) was probably seen as strengthening the state's republican character. Marco polo (talk) 20:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

There is a long-standing feeling that the interests of New York City do not reflect the interests of the rest of New York State (hence various plans for the secession of NYC) so it would make a poor capital for everyone not in NYC. --Colapeninsula (talk) 20:33, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

And, when another city is chosen as the capital other than the most populous city, there's always the problem that it may then become the most populous, due to all the government activity. Then you need to either move the capital or be at risk of that city gaining too much power. StuRat (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, that doesn't happen. There have only been a few cases I can think of where a state capital surpassed the largest city to itself become the largest city, and no one ever cared. See Indianapolis, Indiana, Columbus, Ohio, Phoenix, Arizona, etc. All were chosed and/or purpose built as state capitals, and later overtook the former largest city to become the largest city, and there has never been any real desire to move the capital to a different place when that happened. --Jayron32 20:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Right, so they chose to risk that city becoming too powerful instead (or perhaps they waited until it was too powerful, then were unable to move the capital). Another option is to have the capital split between multiple cities, like the capitals of South Africa. StuRat (talk) 21:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Or you could just have a capital with no government functions at all, like Amsterdam. That's an interesting solution: declare a city your Capital, and then don't do anything governmental there. As an aside, re: South Africa, the three "Capitals" were once the single capitals of the three independent states that united to form the Union of South Africa (Cape Colony, Orange Free State, and Transvaal), and the three-capital solution was a method of keeping all three states happy. --Jayron32 21:06, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

One has to wonder, if three capitals is OK, and there is no necessary connection between the capital city and the machinery of state, whether the ideal number of capital cities might be zero. That would throw an interesting wrinkle into geography bees. --Trovatore (talk) 08:24, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's more than a prospective wrinkle, its an actual fact in at least one case I can think of. See Nauru, a sovereign state with no official capital city. --Jayron32 20:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. I can understand that people in New York State wanted to have the capital somewhere else than the most populous city, to avoid concentrating both political and financial power in the same place, which would have caused bias to that city. There might be a similar reason why Helsinki, despite being the capital and by far the most populous city in Finland, was not the capital of the Southern Finland Province (back when provinces still officially existed), instead of Hämeenlinna. As far as I am aware, the only officially recognised governmental layer between municipalities and the whole nation in Finland is regions, but as far as I am aware, regions don't have capitals. JIP | Talk 20:51, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Another thing to consider, if you are unfamiliar with the U.S., is that States are not administrative layers. They are actually semi-independent states with their own form of limited sovereignty. The U.S. is a federation and not a unitary state like Finland. In the U.S., the Federal Government is (broadly speaking) responsible for foreign relations and regulating business between the states, while the states manage their own internal affairs. Over time this initial seperation of powers has eroded, but in principle the States have their own sovereignty that the Federal Government doesn't have. --Jayron32 20:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I understand the basic idea, although politics has never been my speciality, and I've never lived anywhere outside Finland (although I have visited many other countries). But I guess that, despite the difference in the form of state, the reason why Helsinki was not the capital of the Southern Finland Province was also to avoid excessive concentration of power. At least I can't think of any other reason. JIP | Talk 21:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

For many years, Connecticut had two capitals - both Hartford and New Haven. Florida has its capital about as inconveniently placed as possible. In short - there is no remotely decent rule indicating where a capital is placed, whether it is moved at some point, and why. Existentialist answer, I suppose. Collect (talk) 21:05, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Let's actually do the counts, to see what the trend is. Remember, there is no rule to explain all 50 states, but there may be a rule to explain the majority of states.

• Centrally located but not largest city: Alabama, California, Connecticut, Delawate, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin 24
• Centrally located AND is the largest city: Arkansas, Colorado, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Mississippi, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, West Virginia. 10
• Largest city, NOT centrally located: Georgia, Idaho, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Utah, Wyoming 6
• Neither largest nor central: Alaska, Florida, Kansas, Maryland, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington 9

I'm missing one, but I can't think of it: Central location wins big: 34 states have their capital in the middle, while only 16 have it the largest city (with some overlap). Only 9 states have no "rhyme or reason" regarding geography or population. --Jayron32 21:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Remember, the Florida peninsula's population's only boomed since air conditioning, Disney, and Castro.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Right, so perhaps the center by population might be selected, rather than the center by area. This is also true in Alaska, where the interior is almost uninhabited, with the population largely on the coasts, especially in the South. I suspect that some of the other "not centrally located" capitals fall into this category. StuRat (talk) 21:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, in that case you can drop Sacramento. Sacto is maybe not that far from the geographic center of California, however you want to define that (I wouldn't be that surprised if the centroid is in Nevada, but then Sacramento is not far from Nevada). But it's way north of the center of population. --Trovatore (talk) 23:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

@Jayron: You counted Kansas twice (should not be in Category 1, now = 23). Missing are Arizona (central and largest, Category 2 now =11) and Montana (not central and not largest, Category 4 now = 10). — Michael J 23:59, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Rhode Island - central, but impossible not to be. And Connecticut is small enough that "central" is scarcely a factor <g>. Ditto Delaware. Collect (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, it is now, but Northern California was where the action was when it was chosen. In the old days, they used to move state capitals as states grew. Thus, Pennsylvania's capital moved from Philadelphia to Lancaster and then to Harrisburg in 1812; Ohio moved its capital from Chillicothe to Columbus in 1816; and Springfield, Illinois, took over from Vandalia in 1839. But they don't do that anymore. In the 70s, Alaska was all set to move its capital from Juneau, which is so isolated you can't even drive to it, to Willow, north of Anchorage. Then they realized how much it would cost to make the move and canceled the project. That's why we shouldn't expect to see a statehouse in Orlando or Bakersfield anytime soon. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Part of the Alaska state government is in Anchorage anyway. There is a practical limit to how large Juneau can grow.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Back then, state governments were tiny. You had the governor, the lieutenant-governor, the legislature that would be in session perhaps three months a year, the attorney-general, six or seven other state officers (each with two or three deputies or clerks). There was no welfare system, no sales or income tax, no department of education, etc. etc. It was easy to move.--Itinerant1 (talk) 00:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Here's some more information. According to this source, New York was the capital of New York State from the early colonial times (when lands west of Albany were still populated by Native Americans) till 1775, and then briefly after the Revolution, however,

The vast tracts of land owned by the State in its undeveloped up-country had to be surveyed and sold, and Albany was the location most convenient for such work; so, in 1785, the Surveyor-General was directed to move his office to Albany, he being the first of the State officers to locate here—and that was the beginning of the movement which made Albany the capital of the State.

In 1786, the Legislature passed an act which provided that if the Governor did not convene the Legislature at a particular place, it should meet on the first Tuesday of January next at the place where adjourned to by the prior Legislature, and if not adjourned to a place certain, it should meet at the place where last held. This date was changed in 1798 to the last Tuesday in January. This was an early indication of restlessness and a desire to leave New York city, and to bring the seat of government up towards the centre of the State, and to a place more easy of access to the members from the interior and away from the expense and frivolities of life in the largest and richest city in the Union at that time.

--Itinerant1 (talk) 00:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

One reason a city like New York or Philadelphia is not the US Capital (although they served that function early on), is because they wanted to get the Constitution ratified, and having a "neutral" site for the capital (in the middle of a swamp in southern Maryland) aided that process. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Of course we could have a situation like Australia, where every state capital city is far and away the largest city in its state and the national capital was dumped in the boonies for similar reasons.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

And all the state capitals are on the coast, as far removed from "centrally located" as it's possible to be. Mind you, the population is generally concentrated around the coast, the interior being relatively dry and arid. So, it makes sense for the capitals to also be on the coast. As for Canberra, the only constitutional stipulation was that it should be within the area of New South Wales and at least 100 miles from Sydney. That still left a lot of possibilities that did not mean it was relegated to "the boonies", as you so charmingly put it. Byron Bay could have been the capital, for example. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 10:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

After the American Revolution, New York City's recent history of being the British headquarters in the state, full of wealthy merchants and others of dubious loyalty to the US, might have made an alternate capital more appealing to New Yorkers. Edison (talk) 20:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Atlanta is not centrally-located, but it was convenient, as being located at the center of the railroads which ran from north to south and east to west through the state. In fact, Atlanta's original name was "Terminus", since it was the center of railway traffic in the state. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 21:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Along thoise same lines, Columbus, Ohio became that state's capitol after the state legislature repeatedly moved it from one end of the state to the other and they finally decided to just have it in the exact middle of the state. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

In this era of increased communications and technology, if nations and/or states were being founded today, they might not even have single capitals. Executive and legislatures could be in one place, certain agencies (such as Transportation or Housing) would be in the largest city, while others (Agriculture and Interior, for example) would be in lesser-populated areas. — Michael J 23:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure about that at all. Having all the main people in the same town facilitates cross-talk that wouldn't necessarily be there without formal channels. There's a lot to be said for physical proximity — it's not just about who you talk to on the phone, it's who you have dinner with, who-knows-who, who you run into at functions, things like that. There's a lot more to governance than formal communication; arguably formal communication is actually the least important site of policymaking. It's easy to deride this sort of thing as being about "insiders" and "old boy's clubs" and the like, but it's a significant part of how people with extremely different interests, ideologies, and constraints make hard decisions. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

January 26

Suggesting a article for Wikipedia

How can I suggest a article/topic for Wikipedia that I myself don't want to write? For example, I've been searching the web for the story of Raven and Whale, a classic Eskimo fable, and it would be nice if Wikipedia had a page for it.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.150.104 (talk) 06:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Requested articles. You can request an article there. --Jayron32 06:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Would Sallie Mae be able to find and garnish my overseas paychecks?

The consensus here is that you shouldn't try and we won't help you. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

There are too many reasons to leave the US once I graduate. (No guaranteed medical insurance, Australia higher on the HDI list, and others.) Now if I can't keep current on payments to Sallie Mae, would they have the powers to garnish my overseas bank accounts? Or how do they handle overseas cases of nonpayment? --70.179.174.101 (talk) 07:19, 26 January 2012 (UTC) This question is fundamentally a legal question. We can't answer those. Shadowjams (talk) 07:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC) Incidentally I noticed your IP range, or maybe just you, asks lots of questions on the reference desks, and I'm unsure to what end. Your question essentially suggests you intend to leave the country to abscond on your student loan obligations. That's interesting, particularly because among the "too many reasons" you have to leave the country the subsidies they gave you for school aren't one of them. Funny. Shadowjams (talk) 07:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC) It seems kind of odd to decide to emigrate to a country based on metrics like the number of students in high school anyway. --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC) In fact, we've answered a similar question on students loans after emigration once before for the OP, Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 September 18#Can student loans chase me around the world? (It is a bit funny that the HDI is now apparently important to the OP when two previous top candidate countries for migration were India and China.) Nil Einne (talk) 16:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC) I certainly hope so. No idea if they can actually... --Onorem♠Dil 16:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC) As we've said, we can't give legal advice, but let's suppose you move to Australia. Do you think you might ever want to return to the United States to visit? What happens when the immigration official scans your passport at your port of entry? A computer record comes up. That record could indicate your nonpayment of obligations to the US government. You might want to speak to a lawyer about the possible consequences of that. Marco polo (talk) 16:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC) Your indentation seems to make it look like you're responding to me. In any case, I'm not giving legal advice, I'm giving moral advice. If the OP wants to be a thief, I hope the victims have legal avenues to pursue. --Onorem♠Dil 16:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC) I think it's an unspoken policy of the reference desk to not assist anyone in committing a crime, be it local, federal, or international.--WaltCip (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC) I'd say it's a spoken policy... --Tango (talk) 19:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC) But walking away from a loan is not a crime, is it? It is merely a breach of a private contract. If that were a crime, we'd have a country full of criminals who walked away from mortgages on their overpriced houses. And ever since the student loan industry managed to lobby for a law that made student loans non-dischargeable through bankruptcy, it's even hard to make the case for the immorality of walking away.--Itinerant1 (talk) 20:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC) Taking things which don't belong to you is a crime. If you refuse to return a rental car, the cops can come to your house and arrest you for stealing it. That the thing you are renting in this case is money seems irrelevent to the basic concept. --Jayron32 22:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC) It is a crime if it violates the law. Many U.S. states have explicit laws declaring that willful failure to return some classes of rental property (such as cars) constitute larceny(theft) or intent to commit theft by fraud. I don't think that there is a law against trying to evade your student loan. In the absence of such a law, it's not a crime, it's a tort.--Itinerant1 (talk) 22:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC) Why should you be allowed to walk away from the loan with which you obtained the skills that allow you to make a better living than manual labor? You will, no doubt use those skills after the bankruptcy. You owe on those.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC) That is a huge unjustified assumption.--Itinerant1 (talk) 22:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC) Yes, it's hard to get a job during an economic downturn. That isn't news. If you look at sufficiently long-term statistics, graduate earning potential is still significantly higher than non-graduate earning potential. (Of course, you need a good degree from a good university - if you spent thousands of dollars on a party school, you have only yourself to blame.) --Tango (talk) 23:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC) Since, almost by definition, everyone can't get good degrees from good universities at the same time (and most people don't), but almost everyone ends up in debt, it would seem to me that the system is fundamentally rigged. --Itinerant1 (talk) 01:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC) (E/C) Have you tried asking the company (or checking their website)? I'm sure they would be able to give you answers to these questions. Before moving to another country on the basis of its healthcare system, it would be a good idea to check carefully their arrangements for foreign citizens, and bear in mind that they might not be set in stone. Finally, the HDI is an aggregate measure, and there is no reason to think it will match your personal experiences (you might expect that recent graduates just arrived from another country will tend to have very different lives to typical residents). 81.98.43.107 (talk) 20:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC) It's not a crime to walk away from a loan and hope to evade it. However, as an American taxpayer and all that, I don't choose to aid you.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC) As an Australian taxpayer, I'm not sure we want you. HiLo48 (talk) 21:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Cost of a Rolex

Hello I live in Seattle Washington USA, and interested to purchase a Rolex Daytona 6263 and I want to know how much it will cost and where in State of Washington I can purchase it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.41.26.233 (talk) 11:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

You would be best of contacting these people instead of asking us. SmartSE (talk) 11:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

vapour compression cycle

what is the vapour compression cycle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.166.110 (talk) 17:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

See Vapor-compression refrigeration. --Jayron32 17:41, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

January 27

Are there any volcanoes on Antarctica?

Active or extinct. Roger (talk) 08:13, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

See List of volcanoes in Antarctica. Mikenorton (talk) 08:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Air New Zealand Flight 901 will tell you about the time a DC-10 ran into one of them. All 257 passengers and crew died. HiLo48 (talk) 08:30, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, the flight crew was given new coordinates for the flight, which took them right over the mountain, without anyone telling them they would now be flying over a mountain and needed more altitude. That's some serious incompetence. StuRat (talk) 18:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! WP:WHAAOE wins again! Roger (talk) 12:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Resolved

Country name suffixes

Countries that end in "land" are easy to understand, but do we have an article about the suffixes "stan" and "ia"? --Dweller (talk) 11:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Try this page for stan. For -ia, I don't know. To my knowledge, -stan means... land. That's why we have Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan etc. It's the land of their people. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

To be pedantic, Pakistan isn't "land of Paki" (which can cause linguistic problems - in the UK, Paki is one of the worst ethnic slurs), it's an acronym for Punjab, Afghan Province, Kashmir, Sind and Balochistan, the territories that formed the country. It was created to deliberately emulate the "land of X" names of other Central Asian countries though (and it does after all include the genuine name Balochistan, named after the Baloch tribes). Smurrayinchester 12:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

"-ia" is a common Latin suffix for forming country names, found in Latin and late/neo-Latin placenames such as Italia (Italy), Gallia (land of the Gauls), Hibernia (Ireland), Caledonia (Scotland), Ruthenia, etc. This use is in Latin Wiktionary (sense 2 for "-ia"; the definition is in Latin).[7] Variants are widely used in Slavic as well as Romance languages and English: e.g. the Russian suffix "-ия" (transliterated "-iya") as in Россия/Rossiya (Russia). --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Is the "y" suffix - Germany, Burgundy, Saxony, Normandy - derived from the Latin "ia" suffix? Roger (talk) 18:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, via Old Norman French -ie. Marco polo (talk) 19:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Course Name

I shall be much obliged if you answer the differences of M.Eng and M.Sc in aeronautical engineering course in U.K. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.198.100.130 (talk) 14:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Master of Engineering in the UK is generally a 4 year undergraduate engineering qualification, which will take you well on the way to becoming a professional engineer. Master of Science in the UK is typically a taught 1 or 2 year postgraduate course, although some are purely research-based; most will require an undergraduate degree in a relevant subject. (See the Wikipedia articles I linked.)

However, degrees vary from institution to institution (Oxford, Cambridge, and Scottish institutions tend to have different systems, but others may also vary) so you will get the best answer by comparing the different syllabuses of individual institutions. You could start by searching on Prospects. --Colapeninsula (talk) 16:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Spanair as a Spanish company

Why is Spanair a Spanish company? Being 94% owned by the SAS Group and all. 88.26.74.157 (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Presumably because it was headquartered in Barcelona. List of companies of Spain is "a list of well-known companies from Spain" which is vague and inclusive, but e.g. List of companies of the United States is "a list of notable companies headquartered in the United States". With many companies being owned by shareholders distributed around the world, the nation where they are incorporated and headquartered can be more important than the location of the people or funds who own the company (or the people who own the money that's in the funds). People like to assign nationalities to things even when it's not clear-cut (SAS Group is itself owned by 3 governments and funds in various countries). --Colapeninsula (talk) 00:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. People still think of the "Big Three" U.S. automotive companies as actually American, but Chrysler was controlled by a German firm (Daimler AG), and is now currently a subsidiary of an Italian company (Fiat). Likewise, there's no more American beer company than Anheuser-Busch, makers of Budweiser, and yet they aren't American anymore either; being owned by the Belgian company InBev. Miller Brewing Company isn't American anymore either. It's a subsidiary of a British/South African company, SABMiller. Yet people still think of these brands as inherently American. --Jayron32 06:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

January 28

Hospice care

hospice information, on care for terminal ill patient. when patient is referred to hopice, does that mean that the patient only has a time limit to live? I would also like details how care is provided?

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.129.184 (talk) 01:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I added a title to your question, to help differentiate it from others 87.113.130.148 (talk) 02:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

We have a detailed hospice article. "Hospice" implies care for terminally ill people, usually (but not always) in the last days of their lives. But many institutions that describe themselves as hospices also provide respite care, and some terminally ill people may elect to die at home. So while admission to a hospice very frequently implies the patient is quite close to death, it's not absolutely always the case. 87.113.130.148 (talk) 02:27, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I know one hospital in Toronto that has a hospice wing. Its "rules" (unwritten but seemingly known to every doctor affiliated with the place) include one stipulating that the patient must have less than 6 weeks to live. What they do with you if you exceed the time limit, I have no idea. Bielle (talk)

In the UK, people are eligible for care in a hospice if they have a life-threatening illness. It used to be the case that it was restricted to cancer sufferers, but the last Labour government changed the rules so now people with long-term illnesses such as heart disease or ALS can be admitted too. As a volunteer for my local hospice, I was amazed to find that most of its patients weren't discharged in a box! Many of its in-patients go in for a few days respite care, maybe to get pain under control, maybe to give carers a chance to rest and recover themselves. The hospice I volunteer for has both in-patient and day-centre provision, and are currently starting a domiciliary service. The care provided in all three will be quite different, but basically with the same intent: to provide the best care for that patient at that stage of his/her life. So yes to the first question, the patient's life is limited. The answer to the second question will depend on the needs and wishes of the patient in question. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a reference for hospices being previously restricted to cancer patients? I've never heard of that before, and it seems rather strange. You probably don't mean "life-threatening illness" - lots of people get life-threatening illnesses, receive treatment and recover. Hospices are for people that aren't expected to recover - they provide almost exclusively palliative care, rather than treatment. --Tango (talk) 17:55, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

At the moment, the only reference I have is the induction programme I went through when I started volunteering at the hospice, when this was commented on as adversely affecting the provision of care because staff were being exposed to conditions they had had no prior experience of treating. This is why it stuck in my memory. I was told that the move towards care for all terminal illnesses had only started in 2008/9. I think it might have been a NICE directive, but I can't find the reference at the moment. As for the phrase "life-threatening illness", a Google search tells me it covers what I meant, which is conditions where the prognosis is terminal. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC) After further research, I believe the Gold Standards Framework introduction in 2008/9 introduced a compulsion for hospices to extend their treatment to cover non-cancer patients. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:23, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

"Life-threatening" means the prognosis, without treatment, is likely terminal. You would only go to a hospice if there was little chance of recovery. The injuries sustained in a car crash can be life-threatening, but you wouldn't go to a hospice for them - you would go to an A&E department where they would try and save your life. According to the second paragraph of Liverpool Care Pathway for the dying patient, 5% of non-cancer deaths in 2004 occurred in a hospice (compared with 16% of cancer deaths), so perhaps it was just the hospice you volunteer at that only admitted cancer patients. (The link in the reference is broken, so I can't verify the statistics.) --Tango (talk) 21:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

The key word is "illness": you're right that a car crash does not constitute an illness. However, conditions arising later from such an incident may necessitate palliative care. Marie Curie's website uses the phrase "life-limiting illness", which is interesting because I understood that to mean one which limits what you can do with your life, such a rheumatoid arthritis. I'm pretty sure it was general across the UK that hospices only catered for cancer patients. Certainly organisations such as Marie Curie hospices were cancer only, but the one I volunteer for isn't one of those. Something must have happened in order for charities such as Marie Curie to alter their objects in order for them to provide care within the demands of the NHS. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

State Roads of Each State

Where can we find lists of the state roads for every state? I am currently trying to update the List of State Roads in Florida page. Thank you. Allen (talk) 02:31, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if you can find them all in one place. This webpage has a bunch of info for all the California Highways: [8]. Here's a page from the Florida DOT that might help you: [9]. There are probably similar pages for other states. RudolfRed (talk) 04:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Be wary that it varies quite a bit from state to state what qualifies as a "state road". States like Virginia and North Carolina literally have thousands of numbered state roads, as nearly every public thruway has a posted number (many are only posted on street signs here is how they do it in North Carolina, for example, and here's one from Virginia. Route numbers are repeated from county to county, but they are not county-maintained roads, they are state roads. As a counter example, someplace like New Hampshire has just over 100 numbered state roads, and they only number and maintain major routes between the towns; other roads and streets are under town maintainence. --Jayron32 05:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

The 300 foot long cul de sac outside my house is a state highway as I live in Virginia and outside cities, almost all roads are state roads. When it snows, we speak of VDOT (Virginia Department of Transportation) coming through with the plows.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

For Pennsylvania, go to the website pahighways.com. (This is not an official state website.) The links page has connections for some other states, but I am not familiar with them and I don't know if they are as comprehensive as the Pennsylvania site.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ 03:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

How does mail without an address work?

I used to belong to the Columbia House record club, and I remember that their mailing address was something simple like "Columba House, Terre Houte, IN". No street address or PO Box (but perhaps a zip code), and the mail reached them just fine. I was curious how that worked, and if any other companies have mail addresses like that with no address. Netflix must handle as much mail as Columbia House did, but they have a PO Box address. Does the post office not allow this practice any more? RudolfRed (talk) 04:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

It works just fine, so long as the post office (identified by the zip code) which is receiving the mail knows where it is going. Columbia House did enough business that I'm quite sure the postmaster in Terre Haute knew exactly how to find them. My wife's mother grew up in a town small enough that you only had to address a letter to the person's name and town name, and it got there; the mailman knew everyone personally. --Jayron32 05:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Also note that with a good enough post office and postal carriers, you can make significant error in addresses and have them reach their destination. In a previous house, my grandfather would botch the address up bad, but he got the zip code right. The post office was able to figure out, from that, which street he probably meant (since it was usually similar but not the same), and my postal carrier recognized the name and knew which house it was. Of course, for large areas, zip codes narrow it down a lot. --Mr.98 (talk) 05:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if it still works to write "City" instead of the actual name of the city when it's the same city it was sent from? That's from the time where there were two deliveries a day, and you might be able to post a letter that morning and have its recipient get it that afternoon or the next day. The postal service has various rules, but they have to do something with the letter, which may involve trying to figure it out. In one famous incident (believe it or not) someone successfully sent a letter to Robert Ripley, who at the time was a well-known radio personality, and the address consisted of nothing but wavy ("ripply") lines. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

The Australian Taxation Office routinely instructs the taxpayers to send their tax returns to

Australian Taxation Office
GPO Box 9845
IN YOUR CAPITAL CITY

with the explicit instruction "Do not replace the words IN YOUR CAPITAL CITY with the name of your capital city and its postcode – they are not needed because of a special agreement with Australia Post." (I'd link to the specific relevant page on their website, but it's offline at the moment.) Mitch Ames (talk) 08:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't top BB's amazing anecdote (did the letter arrive unopened?), but in the days before postcodes (and zip codes), my father was amused to receive a letter with just his name, house name and "Yorkshire" as address. On the outside of the unopened envelope was a record of the Post Office's efforts to find the correct house ("try <postal town>" -- "not here", etc) in nearly four million acres of the three ridings of the largest county in the UK. In those days (and sometimes still today) the post office took pride in a successful delivery, however poor the address format. Dbfirs 09:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I am a student at the University of South Africa, one of the oldest and largest distance learning universities in the world, and their postal address is simply <Name of the department>, UNISA, <Postcode>. Due to the huge volumes of mail they handle their mailing department is effectively treated as a separate post office with their own postal code. Roger (talk) 09:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Royal Mail appear to enjoy a challenge - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

They'd presumably not count "No. 1, London" as a challenge, since that's well known to be Apsley House, though apparently its correct postal address is now 149 Piccadilly. --Antiquary (talk) 11:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Back in the day when I concerned myself with such things, there would be articles in stamp publications about specialists at the postal sorting centers who would specialize in difficult addresses. And Linn's Stamp News would send out such things on purpose, just to see how many would get through. Yes, there was a time when in major cities like New York, there would be deliveries five times a day and it would be routine to send out invitations for dinner and receive back RSVPs in plenty of time for the preparations. All by mail. And yes, "City" was a common shorthand when much sorting would take place at the local station or even by the carrier as he received it. Fearsomely efficient.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

When a friend if mine moved to a small town in country Australia about ten years ago, as an experiment his brother tried sending him a letter from Melbourne addressed simply to his first name and the postcode, knowing he was the only one in town with that first name, and figuring that was the most economical possible way of addressing it. To change details to protect the innocent, he sent it to say: Ian, 4835. The letter duly arrived a couple of days later, with no complaint from the post office. --jjron (talk) 14:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll note that in the United States, a high-volume mail recipient will often be assigned their own unique ZIP+4 code. That information alone would be sufficient to uniquely identify, for example, the delivery point for Columbia House. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

The IRS service centre in Fresno, CA has its own ZIP code, 93888 (map). All the +4s in that ZIP correspond with departments within the IRS Fresno Center (although I imagine only a few are actually used). 90.202.164.239 (talk) 00:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies, everyone. RudolfRed (talk) 18:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Tangentally related is Dead letter office, which deals with hard-to-deliver mail. --Jayron32 01:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a story that once a letter addressed:

WOOD
JOHN
MASSACHUSETTS (or just MASS)

was successfully delivered to John Underwood of Andover, Massachusetts. I'm guessing a letter sent to "W, 20500" would have reached the White House in 2001-08. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I grew up in a town so small that, at the time, there were no street addresses. Everyone's address was simply their name, and the name of the town and state (and the zip code, once those came along). I used to send letters with nonsensical addresses (e.g., with Greek letters), except for the town, state, and zip code. They got there just fine; the postmaster knew me and would give the letters to my family. John M Baker (talk) 17:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Costa Rica does not use street addresses except for a small area in downtown San Jose, the capital. Everywhere else, the populace and mail service use directions, like "Don Alberto Rosas, 100 meters east of the Angels School, Alajuela". One Newsweek story from a couple of decades ago claimed that in one rural town, one person gave their address as "50 meters north of where the dog was burned", a locally memorable event. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Question about muscles in the female body

I cannot find any answer to the following: How many muscles in a female body? Why does it differ from a man? I got the answer to male muscles is +- 640 on the muscle page, and it says that females have less but no amount to how much less or why is there a difference.

Can you please help.

Regards

Drienie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.22.161.34 (talk) 06:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't find any Wikipedia article that indicates that females have less numbers of muscles. List of muscles of the human body indicates the "640" number is a kinda ballpark figure anyways, as there are different ways of counting what makes a distinct muscle. Sex_differences_in_humans#Skeleton_and_muscular_system indicates that females do have less strength than males, on average, and this is because that females have less muscle mass, but AFAIK, they still have the same number of muscles; they're just smaller. --Jayron32 06:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Probably a doctor or someone into anatomy could answer this definitively, but maybe it's that there are non-skeletal muscles that differ, for instance uterine wall muscles, or perhaps other sexually distinct anatomy. Humans are obviously sexually dimorphic when it comes to size and strength, among other things, and the most basic reason is testosterone but also a lot of other subtle factors. But I understand your question is specific to anatomical layout. Shadowjams (talk) 08:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, where did you get the 640 figure for males (you say the "muscle page")? The muscle article says: "There are approximately 639 skeletal muscles in the human body. However, the exact number is difficult to define because different sources group muscles differently and some muscles, such as palmaris longus, are variably present in humans." There is no distinction made there between males and females, and I can't think of a reason that there should be a difference. That is of course skeletal muscles, as opposed to mainly internal smooth and cardiac muscles, which as Shadowjams says could be different due to different internal anatomy, and would be much more than 640. --jjron (talk) 14:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

There are apparently muscles in the penis. Looie496 (talk) 18:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

UK gift to China after Beijing Olympics

There has been news this week of Brazil presenting London with a replica of the Cristo Redentor to commemorate the end of the 2012 Olympics and the hand-over to Rio for the 2016 Games. What, if anything, did the UK present to China in this way in 2008? Or did they simply have the satisfaction of listening to Boris waffling about Wiff Waff? - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not aware of any "handover present" custom; Rio may start a new one here. The usual way of marking the handover is a moment during the Closing Ceremony when the mayor of the city which will next host the Games in four years receives the Olympic flag. Usually, the mayor of the city which has just hosted the games gives it to the IOC president who passes it to the mayor of the next city. Then, there is usually a short presentation by the city which will be the host in four years. I have been to almost all Olympic cities (mostly not when the Games were going on) and I've never seen or heard of such a thing. There is almost always a park commemorating the past games and usually listing the medal winners, but what you mention is new to me.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I found Boris's amusing speech to the British delegation at the post-handover party. Whatever you think of his politics, you can't deny that he's a grand orator. You can see the actual handover here; wisely, they didn't let Boris actually say anything. Alansplodge (talk) 12:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it was the soccer balls David Beckham punted off that double-decker bus. ;) --jjron (talk) 14:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I confess to be less than impressed with the mayor after watching him unable to do five minutes of stand up without having very ostentatiously to refer to his notes repeatedly. Even if he's without a teleprompter, the breed has devolved; politicians used to be able to speak for three hours without notes before breakfast as a way of warming up for their main orations.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:08, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes that's true. Harold MacMillan was the last I can remember that was able to deliver a long speech without notes. I was quite impressed by David Cameron's first conference speech as party leader, but he had a few bullet point cards on a chair that he looked at now and then. Still, much more effective than reading aloud from the awful autocue[10]. Alansplodge (talk) 16:02, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Contact lenses Sunglasses

Can you get contact lenses that are sunglasses? E.g. instead of me buying a pair of sunglasses (which I tend not to like and don't think suit me) could i get some sunglasses that do the same thing? A (admittedly brief) google search seemed to bear no fruit apart from something that seemed to look very 'concept' rather than consumer available. ny156uk (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a safety problem inherent in that idea. If they were dark all the time, you'd be absolutely blinded in dark areas, such as in a tunnel when driving. There are photosensitive sunglasses which darken in bright light, but I'm not sure if this can be done in contact lenses. Even if it could, the reaction speed might not be fast enough. With regular sunglasses, if they don't lighten quickly enough, you can just take them off, but obviously there's no way to take out your contacts quickly while driving through a tunnel.

The usual compromise is to wear contact lenses with non-prescription sunglasses. Since non-prescription sunglasses can be very light and thin, the weight isn't as much of a problem as with prescription sunglasses, and you can get them for far less (I buy mine for $1 at the dollar store). StuRat (talk) 22:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Be careful with very cheap sunglasses. They sometimes block visible light but not ultra-violet, which means your pupils dilate (because there is little visible light) and let dangerous amounts of UV in. See Sunglasses#Standards for sunglasses and make sure you get ones that meet a suitable standard. --Tango (talk) 03:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention, wouldn't your eyes look really, really weird with such contact lenses? I mean sunglasses are dark, so it follows that contact lenses modeled after them would be, too... 70.29.250.165 (talk) 11:09, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Probably a little something like this... -- Dismas|^(talk) 11:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, you could make them only dark at the center, where it's always on top of the pupil, so none of the iris is obscured. This would tend to exaggerate the natural effect of dilation and contraction of the iris, which would be beneficial, and would protect the most sensitive part of the retina from damage. That is, when it's too bright out, you would be looking entirely through the dark spot, while, when too dark out, you would be looking through the clear portion, too. It might be rather disconcerting to have a dark spot right in front, though, with brighter peripheral vision. If this could be combined with UV protection and a quick enough photosensitive response time, you might make a practical contact lens. (If not quick enough, I suppose you could wear a normal contact in the other eye, for the "driving through a dark tunnel" scenario.) StuRat (talk) 18:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

“Reiner Knizia Strelow”

What is “Reiner Knizia Strelow”? --84.61.139.62 (talk) 20:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Reiner Knizia is a German board game desinger. Knizia Strelow is an elevator manufacturer and subsidiary of Schindler Group. Not sure what the three names would be doing all together. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Question about dangerous trip

I am sorry but Wikipedia cannot offer legal advice as a matter of policy.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This question has been closed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis or prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the talk page discussion (if a link has been provided). The talk page discussion may be found here.--Falconusp t c 23:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC) I'll be going on a solo wilderness trip, possibly several months. There is a small but very real chance I'll disappear. Is there some type of legal documentation I can leave with my wife so she can sign all my stuff or get my inheritance, for example? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PumknPi (talk • contribs) 22:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC) You need to talk to a lawyer. Meanwhile, check out our power of attorney and will (law) articles. StuRat (talk) 22:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC) Definitely talk to a lawyer; it's also probably best not to base your legal actions off of the responses of anonymous people on the internet (and we can't give legal advice on Wikipedia). Good luck with your trip! Falconusp t c 23:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC) Just curious. Why are you planning this trip? Is it a mid-life crisis issue, or something else? --Aspro (talk) 23:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

January 29

Blogs

Hi there, As a new contributor not able to negotiate all the links, it is much easier for me to ask a direct question. Already have a 'static blog' on Word press which I add to as material becomes available. Any readers may make comments but I'm not in a position to answer them, nor do I seek to have the blog edited. Comments are invited and if they show that the observations need editing, then I will do so. Would this type of blog be suitable to export to Wikipedia, and would be in a format that I could continually add to, and edit myself? Hamish84Hamish84 (talk) 05:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

No, it would not be suitable for Wikipedia. Wikipedia only allows content that has been sourced to reliable second and third party references. We do not allow original research. Dismas|^(talk) 05:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)