Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Arcticocean (talk | contribs) at 13:40, 25 May 2009 (→‎Clerk notes: Closing now.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requests for amendment

Request to amend prior case: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Fringe_science

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:


Statement by Durova

It's a pleasure to be filing a positive request. As the Committee is aware, ScienceApologist has been working on an improvement drive for the optics article. He wishes to see the revisions imported to en:wiki and bring the page to featured article status. This requires three things:

  1. GFDL-compliant importing. Kaldari has volunteered to undertake this.
  2. Limited proxy editing to the article and related processes of GAC, peer review, and FAC. Sceptre and I have agreed to undertake this.
  3. Permission from ArbCom for the above.

So proposing the following case amendment:

ScienceApologist's ban is amended to permit limited proxy editing related to the optics article. Kaldari, Sceptre, and Durova have permission to proxy for ScienceApologist by editing the article, its talk page, and at process pages directly related to the optics featured article drive.

Kaldari and Sceptre should be adding their agreement to this propoal shortly, and ScienceApologist should be emailing the Committee to affirm his endorsement of this request. Respectfully submitted, DurovaCharge! 00:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sceptre

Affirming Durova's post. Probably no need to affirm that I would seeing as I announced on AE my intention to if asked. Sceptre (talk) 00:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kaldari

Affirming Durova's post. Although I would like to clarify that I think it is important for ScienceApologist himself to make the import edit, which would require a 1-edit suspension of his wikipedia ban. The reason behind this is that this rewrite is a significant contribution to Wikipedia and 10 years from now it shouldn't take an archeologist to figure out who contributed the writing (indeed it should be possible for a bot even to make the determination). This is both to insure proper attribution per the GFDL and per convenience for future editors. This is not strictly required per the GFDL, but it is the proper way to handle this, IMO. Doing attribution in edit summaries is far from ideal, especially when we're talking about a complete rewrite of an important article (mainly because such attribution is not machine-parsable). I would be willing to handle performing the 1-edit unblock and reblock and overseeing the edit.

Statement by Paul August

I support this request. However I submit that it would be much easier to simply allow ScienceApologist to make the edits directly, to wit, I propose the following motion:

ScienceApologist's ban is amended to permit editing related to the optics article.

Paul August ☎ 19:20, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Striking my proposed motion. Paul August ☎ 04:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Coppertwig

I agree with bringing the content into Wikipedia, but I disagree with Kaldari's proposed method of doing so by having ScienceApologist do a single copy-and-paste edit. For GFDL purposes, I believe it would be preferable for an admin to transwiki the article, then merge the page histories, which I believe would result in SA's edits showing up in the page history as being by SA. The GFDL situation is complicated because SA is not the only person who has contributed to the article at Wikisource. If SA or anyone else does it as a single edit, I suggest listing the names of the contributors in the edit summary; but that's not as good. See the discussion at Talk:Optics, especially the comments by Moonriddengirl, for example here; she's very knowledgeable about copyright policy. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 00:40, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by other user

Clerk notes

Arbitrator views and discussion

  • Very well; I've proposed a motion below. Please keep in mind that you are still responsible for the edits you make in your role as proxies; so please use your best judgment to determine whether the edits being requested are reasonable before making them. Kirill [talk] [pf] 02:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Recused. --Vassyana (talk) 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Motions

1) Kaldari, Sceptre, and Durova are granted permission to act as proxies for ScienceApologist by making edits to the optics article, its talk page, and any process pages directly related to the optics featured article drive.

Support
  1. As proposed. Kirill [talk] [pf] 02:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Needs to include mention of the proposed brief unblock. Other than this, though, the rest of the ban needs to be served out. If it was a topic ban, it could be altered. But this was a site-wide ban for conduct problems. Suggest also that care is taken with the editing history here. Please make sure the edit history makes sense. Carcharoth (talk) 02:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3.  Roger Davies talk 04:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. In passing I want to note that I am favourably impressed by ScienceApologist's way of coping with his block. Sam Blacketer (talk) 09:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  6. With the usual caveat that the editors that perform the actual proxy edit take responsibility for it. — Coren (talk) 01:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Per Coren. FloNight♥♥♥ 16:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  9. Wizardman 17:46, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Abstain
  1. (As recused) --Vassyana (talk) 05:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Also recused, due to ScienceApologist's role at the New York chapter meetings. Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:19, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request to amend prior case: WP:RANDARB

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

Statement by TallNapoleon

I would like to request that my topic ban on editing Ayn Rand related articles be lifted. There is a great deal of work that needs to be done on Rand related articles, including major ongoing consolidation and cleanup being led by Skomorokh and J Readings (please see Template:Objectivism and Ayn Rand Cross Talk, which has become a central hub for these efforts). Currently, my limit to talk pages is severely limiting my ability to improve the project, as even in the most uncontroversial of cases I have to ask for other users to make the change, which is frustrating to me and, I am sure, them. Were the committee to lift this restriction, I would voluntarily place myself on 0RR (excepting, of course, vandalism removal), would avoid making any controversial edits without first gaining clear consensus via the Talk page, and would make sure to avoid involving myself in any edit wars. Thank you for your consideration. TallNapoleon (talk) 03:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note, I only listed myself because I don't believe this directly affects other users. I did post a link to this on Template:Objectivism and Ayn Rand Cross Talk, and if the Committee likes I would be glad to notify all other members of the original ArbComm proceeding. TallNapoleon (talk) 04:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I originally posted this request at the suggestion of Skomorokh, who is I'm sure tired of having to make noncontroversial edits for me that I could largely make myself (I was originally planning to just ask for permission to tag articles).
The best place to see my involvement would be at the cross talk page, where I've started actively hunting through the "darker corners" of the Objectivism-related articles. There are a number of these articles, and they tend to be are extremely poorly written, of dubious notability, and POV. Many are in need of being merged or prodded.
In terms of the kinds of edits I would like to be able to do:
First, I would like to be able to add tags to articles. This would help tremendously with sorting.
Second, I would like to be able to PROD and AFD articles. As this has the potential to be controversial, I would discuss any such move on the cross-talk page before doing so.
Third, culling inappropriate material. There's lots of this stuff in the Objectivism section. We just recently finished a cull of a couple of different sources that turned out to be nonnotable and/or self-published (books by Ronald Merrill and James S. Valliant). There is also, for example, the quotes section on Romantic Realism, which despite being an article about a topic that extends far beyond Rand consists only of Rand's quotes (also IIRC quotes sections are discouraged).
Fourth, fixing blatantly obvious POV, for instance, as shown here. I had to ask other users to make that fix despite the fact that it was totally non-controversial--it's never Wiki's place to say that someone's arguments are "oversimplified". I also repeatedly notified the talk page about edits from our problem IP (see EdJohnston's update to WP:RANDARB), e.g. [Talk:Ayn_Rand/Archive_36#Changes here], which frankly I would have fixed on my own.
Fifth, I intend to make grammatical and format fixes, and be the grammar Nazi I was raised to be.
Sixth, in those cases where I do decide to be bold (which will likely be rare) it will be done on a section or subsection level, one piece at a time, without trying to rewrite whole gigantic articles, making it easier for other users to comment and edit changes and for consensus to develop.
Seventh, I intend to implement changes where consensus has been reached.
In terms of if other editors believe I overstep myself, I do not presume to tell ArbComm what decision they should make, or what sanctions they should place on me. I would suggest that the thing to do would be to either bring it back here or to go to an admin. Admins and ArbComm are really better suited to answer that kind of question than I am. If lots of my edits are being reverted, I think the thing to do would be to look at context. Are my edits based on consensus and it's just one person reverting, are my edits a case of being WP:BOLD in the face of no consensus (which to be honest is not the best idea on many of these articles) or are they directly against consensus? One is not my fault, one is potentially problematic, and one is definitely problematic. But I'm not planning on breaking my word on this. I intend to work for consensus, to make universally acceptable changes, and above all not to edit war, which is what my original sanction was for. TallNapoleon (talk) 00:21, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Carcharoth, I think Karbinski was pointing out the kind of edits I might make (or oppose) if I were not banned. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Karbinski. TallNapoleon (talk) 08:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Quick question to Vassyana--could the motion make clear whether or not I would be permitted to revert vandalism? TallNapoleon (talk) 06:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by KD Tries Again

I have been spending some time trying to help with the Rand-related articles recently, and I can confirm TallNapoleon's statement that there is an immense amount of editorial work to do. It would be very helpful to have him back on board.KD Tries Again (talk) 16:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)KD Tries Again[reply]

Statement by Snowded

Edit warring has continued on the article, but with new editors. Articles of this nature have significant issues on questions of weight and verifiability and attempting to deal with them simply as behavioural issues of the editors involved is at best a short term solution. Current editors have carried out far more RRs that KD ever did. I have no objection to his request, he has always been careful to attempt a NPOV and to properly source material in a field where he is knowledgeable. --Snowded (talk) 05:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry only just spotted this. RR as in 3RR etc. Since the Arbcom ruling edit warring has continued. My point was that there has been a lot worse behaviour than exhibited by TN since the ruling which has gone unpunished. I was not referring to KD. I am supporting TN being reinstated, although I think he should not be under any special restrictions. --Snowded (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Karbinski

A couple examples of edits he may have made to Objectivism (Ayn Rand) here and here. --Karbinski (talk) 10:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As well an example of an edit to Objectivism (Ayn Rand) - here - that he objected to being reverted. --Karbinski (talk) 15:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by other user

Clerk notes

  • I will be implementing the below motion and closing this thread shortly. AGK 13:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrator views and discussion

  • There is a question of what effect this will have on the editing environment. If you could please inform the current active contributors of your request, it would be appreciated. Opinions of current participants would be helpful. (That said, I would give fair warning to any who might comment that while reasonable objections and opinions are welcome that this is not an open forum to slag on other editors or complain about the "evils" of one side or another.) If you could, please better illustrate the kind of contributions you intend to enact. Could you link to a couple of examples of changes you would have made? Can you provide a few links to show your participation in recent discussions and additionally highlight a few broadly accepted changes that were implemented where you took part in the preceding discussion? It will also help our determination if you better clarify what sort of restriction you are looking to volunteer. Can the restriction be enforced, as per normal, by any uninvolved administrator? If a lot of your edits are being reverted, should this be considered against your limited mainspace participation? If a portion of your edits are seen as controversial or pushing the line, should that be considered against your participation? How would you expect violations of the restriction to be treated? Should your restriction revert to the mainspace prohibition? Should you be blocked? Should you be placed under another restriction? Any information and context that you can provide will help us make a determination. --Vassyana (talk) 15:21, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • TallNapoleon seems to be have a good awareness of what boundaries he should respect. His request provides a suggestion for very strict editing conditions. No objections have been lodged, but some editors believe this would be of benefit and all indications appear to support that position. As such, I have proposed a motion below. --Vassyana (talk) 06:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question for Snowed: what do you mean by "RR" and why are you referring to KD? This amendment request is about TallNapoleon. And a question for Karbinski - I'm not sure what you are saying here. What are your diffs showing? Are you objecting to TallNapoleon's restrictions being lifted or are you saying he has been editing the articles instead of the talk pages? The explanation by TallNapoleon makes sense - the question to Snowded still stands. 19:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC) Carcharoth (talk) 07:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the answer, Snowded. I think some restrictions are still needed, and have voted to support the motion below. Carcharoth (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Motions

1) The topic ban imposed on TallNapoleon (talk · contribs) (see WP:RANDARB#TallNapoleon topic-banned and warned) is removed. In place of a mainspace topic ban, TallNapoleon is subject to a zero-revert restriction (0RR) on Ayn Rand and related articles for the remainder of the six-month duration. He is instructed to seek talk page consensus before undertaking any potentially controversial edits. TallNapoleon is encouraged to continue his efforts to develop a functional consensus and improve articles related to the subject.

Support
  1. As proposer, per my comments above. --Vassyana (talk) 06:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support; TallNapoleon seems to have improved and is working well with editors on talk pages. Sam Blacketer (talk) 09:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Carcharoth (talk) 01:21, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Kirill [talk] [pf] 16:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Wizardman 21:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Abstain
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