Talk:Ivory Coast

Template:Assessed

Why Ivory

I ran through the article hoping to find out why it is has ivory in its name. Is it there somewhere? If not, it should be. Myrvin (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

It's in the related article about the history of the area. Elephant ivory boom in the 17th/18th century led to profitable trading that collapsed part way through the 1700's. Keegan (talk) 06:15, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Aha - thanks K. Shouldn't it be in this article under Name? Myrvin (talk) 06:48, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Religion demographics

I would just like to point out that the text says around 38% are islamic while 32% are christian, or something like that, while the diagram directly below shows the opposite. Which is it, I wonder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.21 (talk) 01:30, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

English name?

Shouldn't we use the English name since this is the American Wikipedia? All other countries have their English name on this Wikipedia, so why is this the only exception?--24.207.198.83 (talk) 01:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

You need to read the lengthy earlier discussions. The answer to question one however is yes. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:19, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Not speaking to the choice of title either way, but note that this is not the "American" Wikipedia, it is the English Wikipedia. There is no "American" Wikipedia, by the way; this project uses the English language but does nt restrict itself to only one version of said language.) --Ckatz^chat_spy 04:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move: Côte d'Ivoire --> Ivory Coast

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

There is no consensus, and the discussion is same as the others (see talk's archives). As per one of the previous times that I closed this discussion, looking at this discussion based on this page alone is absolutely pointless. Look at the project of the name, and all the other pages of the name. All pages with titles containing Côte d'Ivoire and All pages with titles containing Ivory Coast. The only reasonable means to have this changed is to do it holistically and via an RFC. Nothing else should suffice. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

---

Côte d'Ivoire → Ivory Coast – This title doesn’t just ignore the WP:COMMONNAME principle, it is so different than the name that readers are likely to know this country as that they may well wonder if they are at the right article. Unless you know some French, it’s not obvious how you are supposed to pronounce it. Looking through the archive, I must say that this is an issue with a most contentious and irregular history. "Ivory Coast" is overwhelmingly the common name as found in Google Books. Our guidelines specify that the common name be used as the article title. "Ivory Coast" is also the usage of major media organizations. Kauffner (talk) 08:17, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Arguments:

1. To determine common name, we may use "a Google book search of books published since 1980,” per WP:COMMONNAME. So this ngram should leave no doubt that “Ivory Coast” is in fact the common English-language name of this country. (Since there is a lot of discussion in the archive about British vs. American usage, I recommend trying out the feature that allows you to choose either a British or an American corpus.)
2. Isn’t “Côte d'Ivoire” the “new name" of the this country? Won’t “Ivory Coast" make us look old fashion in a few years? The guidelines suggest that Wiki should not try to get ahead of the curve in this manner, but such arguments get deployed anyway. Media usage today will be book and common usage in a few years time. As the major media organizations are currently using “Ivory Coast”, there is no reason to expect common usage to change anytime soon. See The New York Times (“Standoff Set Up With 2 Ivory Coast Presidents”, December 3, 2010), the AP (“UN: both sides committed abuses in Ivory Coast”, Jun 10, 2011), the BBC (“Ivory Coast country profile”), The Guardian (styleguide: Ivory Coast not "the Ivory Coast" or Côte d'Ivoire”), and CNN (“Gbagbo loyalists attack Ivory Coast broadcaster as violence drags on”, February 27, 2011). Burma has been attempting to change its English-language name to “Myanmar" since 1989, but without success.
3. As examples in the archive can attest, numerous readers who come to this page are surprised to discover that the name of this country is given “in French.” Certainly “Côte d'Ivoire” sees significant usage in English as well, but the point remains that the title is not supposed to come as a surprise to the reader.
4. The fact that this country participates in international organization as “Côte d'Ivoire" is rightly given significant weight. But there are certainly other cases where Wiki uses an article title that is not the same as that country’s diplomatic name: Burma (Myanmar), Vietnam (Viet Nam), East Timor (Timor-Leste), North Korea (Democratic People's Republic of Korea), and South Korea (Republic of Korea). It is also quite common for a Wiki title be a shortened form of the diplomatic name, for example Brunei, United Kingdom or United States. See here for a full list of the diplomatic names.
5. Yup, here come the guidelines:

• “Name your pages in English....unless the native form is more commonly used in English”(per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English));
• “Use what would be the least surprising to a user finding the article" (per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)); and
• “When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it. (per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names))

Ivory Coast issued a proclamation on this subject this back in 1985, but you don’t see any significant use of “Côte d'Ivoire" in English until the late 1990s. Usage seems to be associated with President Laurent Gbagbo, who was recently ousted. Agence Ivoirienne de Presse, the official news agency, published its last English language report on March 30 as rebel forces closed in on the capital. So who knows what official English language usage might be at this point? Obviously time for another RM. Kauffner (talk) 08:17, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Just a note of correction, Google's ngram software is very finicky since it's based on scanned documents. Fiddling around with it a bit and I get a far more sensible graph which shows the expected behavior: after 1985, when the change was officially made, usage of Ivory Coast suddenly droped and Cote d'Ivoire increased, eventually overtaking Ivory Coast around 1993 as the most popular term. Today usage seems to be roughly equal, although Cote d'Ivoire is slightly more popular. TDL (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support per the comprehensive nomination. WP:COMMONNAME is policy and "Ivory Coast" is clearly this country's most common name in reliable English sources. Jenks24 (talk) 09:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Côte d'Ivoire is also commonly used and this is the official name of the country. Moreover Ivory Coast redirects here and is bolded in the first sentence so there's no possible confusion. Whether people can pronounce "Côte d'Ivoire" or not is irrelevant since the English name is also stated. Laurent (talk) 09:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
  • WP:COMMONNAME says we use the most common name, not just any common name, and WP:OFFICIALNAMES says we don't use official names. –CWenger (^ • @) 17:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
    • On Wikipedia, when both country names are relatively common, it's frequent to ignore WP:COMMONNAME and make a decision based on other criteria. See People's Republic of China instead of "China", Republic of China instead of "Taiwan", Republic of Ireland instead of "Ireland", and there are a lot more. In this case, since both names are commonly used (based on previous discussions, none is significantly more common than the other), it makes sense to choose the official one. Laurent (talk) 07:37, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
      • "Ireland", "China", and "Taiwan" are ambiguous, making further qualifiers necessary. "Ivory Coast" is not. Powers ^T 12:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support Here in the UK, the BBC uses Ivory Coast and to me that is enough. I have never heard anyone ever use "Cote d'Ivoire", because it's a bit strange as it isn't common. Yes some of these news outlets may use Cote d'Ivoire, but in reality will they use it on the streets when talking to a friend? I stand by that I have NEVER heard someone refer to it as Cote d'Ivoire, but only as Ivory Coast. Bezuidenhout (talk) 09:46, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose What is this, the semi-annual waste of time? The arguments against last time stand (3 attempts in less than a month), and none of the arguments this time even fit. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a valid reason to keep trying to move this. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

There have been only three RMs for this article: November 2005, January 2007, and June 2010. The June 2010 RM looks like it was a hash, so it's about time for a proper vote on this issue. If you think it's a waste of time, no one is making you vote. Kauffner (talk) 11:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support: Clearly the WP:COMMONNAME in English. –CWenger (^ • @) 17:40, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Support: I can't even recall the last time I saw the name cote divoire in print or used on tv. There are times when common English use of a name and the country's own internal name go through swings over a decade, but Ivory Coast is used almost exclusively. It's not even remotely close. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
• Comment the CIA World Fact Book [1] calls it "Cote d'Ivoire". 65.94.47.63 (talk) 19:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment the CIA World Fact Book [2] also uses Timor-Leste (not East Timor) Bezuidenhout (talk) 19:21, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
    • Comment you're using the wrong link. It's at [3]. The CIA World Fact Book calls Myanmar as Burma [4] , so it's not going to choose the official name. 65.94.47.63 (talk) 10:43, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support Ivory Coast is clearly the most recognizable name for the country to an English speaking audience. As the data here[5][6] and above shows, major news organizations and books prefer this name, and I think it's exactly for for this reason, as they prioritize recognizability and comprehension by readers over diplomatic concerns. It is my opinion that Wikipedia should have the same priorities. The only reason why Côte d'Ivoire may be slightly favored in a regular Google search is that the hits are heavily slanted towards international organizations and government websites, who use the official name out of diplomatic concerns. Their language use does not reflect that of the general English speaking public.TheFreeloader (talk) 19:11, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Even the Library of Congress country study is titled with Ivory Coast so that readers will know what is meant; it uses Côte d'Ivoire, but its sources don't - except for Gbagbo's own book. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:24, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support In this case we should use our common sense, this is how most English speakers think of the country, in normal discussions Cote D'Ivoire would be generally regarded as an affectation, even among people who knew where you meant. PatGallacher (talk) 22:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. The argument seems to be based around the policy of using the common English names for places. This policy is not uniformly implemented across wikipedia. See Kolkata (Calcutta) as an example. Kolkata is not an English word, but perhaps its lack of accent marks is less offensive to English-preferring readers. Kolkata is named as it is because it is the correct name for the place. Suppose Fred chose to change his name to Nathan and asked you to refer to him as Nathan from then on. Would you still call him Fred? The answer is No, because to do so is rude. Ignore the policy, it is wrong in this instance. Cliff (talk) 03:24, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Please discount this argument as a violation of core policy; it is not our business whether our subjects like something, but whether it is verifiable. We are not here for the Sympathetic Point of view, but for a neutral one. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:02, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support per nom (overwhelming common usage) and Wikipedia's guideline on using English. A couple of points that are sometimes not fully considered:
  1. "Ivory Coast" is routinely and usually used in English sources as the unqualified name for the country, i.e. without a parenthetical "Côte d'Ivoire" whereas "Côte d'Ivoire" often carries a parenthetical "Ivory Coast". Therefore, "Ivory Coast" is preferable per the principle of least astonishment. As the nominee notes, educated readers who partake of multiple English news sources might be genuinely confused by seeing "Côte d'Ivoire" as a title.
  2. I realize this is original research but, in professional dealings with individual 10-20 Ivorians over several years, I have only had one person introduce himself as from "Côte d'Ivoire". The remainder have simply stated they were from "Ivory Coast". So it's clearly not a huge issue of contention or offense in this regard. —  AjaxSmack  06:10, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Based on the sources provided in previous discussions, "overwelming common usage" is exagerated. I've pasted below some sources from a previous move request, because I think a lot of baseless claims are being made in this discussion. Moreover, proper reference works such as the CIA factbook or Britannica all name the country "Côte d'Ivoire". Since we are also a reference work, it would make sense to follow these sources, rather than newspaper journalists. See below for some more sources:

• • Close ties to France since independence in 1960, the development of cocoa production for export, and foreign investment made Cote d'Ivoire one of the most prosperous of the West African states, but did not protect it from political turmoil from Central Intelligence Agency
  • Cote d'Ivoire star striker Didier Drogba was voted the Man of the Match after his team's 3-0 win over DPR Korea in 2010 FIFA World Cup Group G here on Friday from Xinhua News Agency
  • Sven-Goran Eriksson, Côte d’Ivoire’s coach was quoted saying: “They’ve acquired discipline and organisation. These are good players, they listen and they want to learn and work. Côte d’Ivoire have a great team and a very bright future.” from The Hot News Herald
  • About one dozen people, including women and children, have been confirmed dead in Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire, after heavy rain storms this week caused mudslides in some of the most run-down areas of the country's main port from UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
  • Cote d'Ivoire will need a miracle and some help from Brazil if they want to reach the next round from Irish Times
  • Portugal joined Brazil in the last 16 of the World Cup on Friday after the pair drew 0-0 in their final Group G game, while Côte d'Ivoire were eliminated despite a 3-0 win over North Korea from Mail and Guardian
  • After their 3-0 win over Korea DPR, Côte d'Ivoire's players were looking back – both at their first two matches in Group G and at their FIFA World Cup™ debut four years ago from FIFA
  • Portugal stormed to life in a 7-0 rout of Korea DPR last time out, putting themselves well ahead of Côte d'Ivoire on potential goal difference from Soccerway
  • For the second straight World Cup, Côte d'Ivoire bumped into another hot group and are on their way out again at the first round stage from Super Sport
  • Brazilian Kaka is suspended for the game after being sent off in his team’s 3-1 triumph over Côte d’Ivoire from Betfred
  • Cote d'Ivoire coach Sven-Goran Eriksson said on Thursday that his former team, England, can beat Germany in the round of 16 at the World Cup from People's Daily
  • Of the more than 5 million non-Ivoirian Africans living in Cote d'Ivoire, one-third to one-half are from Burkina Faso; the rest are from Ghana, Guinea, Mali, Nigeria, Benin, Senegal, Liberia, and Mauritania from US Department of State
  • The mission analyzed the economic situation and outlook of Côte d’Ivoire in the context of Article IV Consultation and conducted the first review of the implementation of the economic program supported by the Poverty Reduction and Growth Facility (PRGF) ., the IMF’s concessional window for low-income countries from International Monetary Fund
  • Côte d’Ivoire was once the economic miracle of Africa and a role model for stability on the continent from Lonely Planet
  • Côte d’Ivoire peacefully achieved autonomy in 1958 and independence in 1960, when Félix Houphouët-Boigny was elected president from Encyclopaedia Britannica
  • Côte d'Ivoire has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 from World Trade Organization
  • Côte d’Ivoire’s civil war began in 2002 and has since fluctuated between periods of intense violence followed by relative calm from International Rescue Committee
  • The Côte d'Ivoire lies too far west to have been significant in the 17th and 18th century development of the Guinea coast gold, and slave trade from Geographia
  • In March, teams handed over the mobile clinics and the mobile nutrition programme they had managed in the western region of Côte d'Ivoire to the local authorities from Medecins Sans Frontières
  • Côte d'Ivoire's economy is based on the export of cash crops. It is the largest producer of cocoa in the world, producing 40% of global supply, and the fifth largest producer of robusta coffee from Foreign and Commonwealth Office
  • In the south of Côte d'Ivoire is a 320-mile (515-km) wide strip of coastal land on the Gulf of Guinea from C%C3%B4te+d'Ivoire&source=bl&ots=tozv-H-mxr&sig=FGttWwbEQVNl7wC3oUWLFdiat_Q&hl=en&ei=0GklTL2UL6L40wTZ4-nEBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBjgy#v=onepage&q&f=false Cultures of the World : Côte d'Ivoire by Patricia Sheehan
  • Houphouët—who for more than three decades was "the 'active center' of an institutionalized state structure" in Côte d'Ivoire—sought during his long reign to recognize dissent but also to contain it within state structures, notably through cosultative mass meetings he called "Dialogue" from C%C3%B4te+d'Ivoire&hl=en&ei=U2slTLiVIYju0wTG1621BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=C%C3%B4te%20d'Ivoire&f=false The Emergent Independent Press in Benin and Côte d'Ivoire by W Joseph Campbell Laurent (talk) 07:45, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you found a couple uses of the name cote divoire but Ivory Coast is so overwhelmingly used in everyday English and the press that if we start to list these silly types of items as you did we'd run out of bandwidth here. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

So besides calling people who disagree with you "silly" and "trolls", do you have anything to contribute to your own move request? It seems that you want to change the country's name because you can't even write it properly. Laurent (talk) 10:18, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm not glad that you have nothing better to say than dismissive insults and mockery at those whom you disagree with. I personally find not one item in the list to be silly. I happen to agree with the position of the one who made the list but to stoop to calling the World Trade Organisation, Encyclopaedia Britannica, the CIA, Chinese news, and the United Nations silly types of items which presumably are worthy of instant dismissal while claiming an obvious overwhelming use in presumably American everyday English for Ivory Coast does nothing beneficial for anyone. The usage in international media is generally about evenly divided. Ignoring that which you don't like is an example of why i voted as i did, which you subsequently commented on. Wikipedia is neither American nor yours personally. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 10:04, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

• O P P O S E per the overwhelming idiocy and Americanism and Englishism of most everyone listed before me in this round. This has become not a perennial proposal but a semi-annual proposal and hell, there is already a failed RFC on this very matter already in the current version of the talk page. Come on. This is just hoping that people get so fed up that eventually those pushing for it will have a majority on the 11th or 26th try.
  As has been pointed out by a few others, the common name in the media you personally frequent does not make anything common, just common to you. The common name policy itself does not even address such an issue. What is common to me might be so unfamiliar to you that you believe it to be fictitious. If we were to ask some certain people we might find among them the commonality of the name being Kanata not Canada. It is all in whom you sample. Media, which are subject to style guides and publisher's preference are hardly an appropriate point of reference as they are expressing a bias. What ever happened to the simple concept of what does the country call itself when written in English? Yeah, it uses French when things do appear in English. The CIA also uses French. Here is a most wild thought - look at google maps. http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=5.047171,1.054688&spn=21.62687,45&z=5 So notice anything in the naming pattern of the countries? Yeah, those countries of Arabic name bare both an Arabic and an English name whilst Côte d'Ivoire caries no English translation. Côte d'Ivoire is the proper name in French and English. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 09:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
  Don't forget Yahoo maps too http://ca.maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=9.468648&lon=-3.978222&zoom=7 and Bing maps too http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=C%C3%B4te%20d%E2%80%99Ivoire&q=ivory%20coast&form=LMLTSN&cp=7.515186849207126~-5.634990558028221&lvl=5&sty=r&encType=1 (i even searched for "Ivory Coast" and it told me 'no no, wrong name'). All these maps are from rather reliable sources and all treat Côte d'Ivoire as the proper name in English for the country. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 09:14, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
  As for the nominator's rationale being a political leader being ousted as "Obviously time for another RM." If this passes i will say it is "Obviously time for another RM." to have the move reverted because not being able to pronounce it or a reader's presumed complete ignorance and the need to pander to the basest of intelligence is hardly becoming of a reference work. Such is why television shows like Hot In Cleveland so openly mock Wikipedia. But back on topic, if you insist upon abiding by google books and i insist upon abiding by google maps and they conflict does that then cancel out google as a reliable source? Does the fact that google books is merely a regurgitation get less consideration than google maps which is their own work? Most every fight here has cited American, Canadian, and British sources. All of them are of equally blah use because none of them are common to the people being written about.
  If such is irrelevant then as was mentioned earlier all places in India need to be titled according to their American or British or Canadian name rather than their local name in use in English. I dare someone in favour of renaming Côte d'Ivoire to request a move of Kolkata to Calcutta because Kolkata is so uncommon that in reading this it is the first time in my life i have ever seen the word Kolkata. Kolkata is not an English word and neither is Calcutta but Calcutta looks more normal to someone from western Europe or North America. And that is the substance of the reason put forward for moving Côte d'Ivoire to Ivory Coast; those in western Europe and North America with little or no familiarity with French are often put off by the name of the country. It is an easy translation. Pandering to the lowest common denominator of human intelligence and respect has much of the media insisting upon using what is nothing more than a derogatory nickname.
  If you truly want to know what is common then sample large and small publications from various languages and places all over the planet. If the name remains the same despite the language of the document being German or Italian or Spanish or Japanese then you have probably found the true common name. Of course the common name policy actually expressly instructs you to disregard all non-English, which is actually part of the problem rather than an aid to a resolution, especially when looking for a common name that crosses linguistic boundaries to begin with. I don't know how else i can say that i oppose this and oppose the existence of the proposition. It was not time to make another request to move the article. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 09:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Once many of us read "idiocy and Americanism and Englishism of most everyone listed before me in this round" we stop reading thinking it's just a common troll not worthy of any attention. You might want to tone down the scolding and just state your case. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't tone things down. And you gave me an edit conflict to finishing stating my case. I am very anti-English-only and in far too many corners of Wikipedia i am coming across sentiments that amount to 'if its not English don't link to it even if it has an article because it is inherently not notable and has no place in [whatever article it might be]' and that is where the elitism, Americanism, and idiocy is really obvious. And you can go back under your bridge now and read from there the extent of my involvement in this issue here on this very talk page. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 09:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

You "don't tone things down" and you're "anti-English-only". That's not a good way to be a productive contributor to the English Wikipedia. Powers ^T 12:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah... I'm someone who closes a lot of RM requests, and I can say that, when I see someone use the word "idiocy", or otherwise show that they're unable to "comment on the content, not the contributor", I get the immediate impression that the editor is not serious, and is here to fight, not to edit. If you wish to be taken seriously, Deliriousandlost, comment on the content, not the contributor. Saying, "you can go back under your bridge now" tells me that you're hoping to be blocked from this project soon. If you can't behave somewhat professionally, please go away.

How disappointing, to have to address behavior issues in what should be a respectful and productive discussion. -GTBacchus^(talk) 00:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support, per WP:USEENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME. Powers ^T 12:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Cote d'Ivoire is used considerably in English sources and it's the name the country is called in international relations. I don't agree with stubbornly insisting on "using English" if the French is commonly used in English anyway and is its official name in English. Rennell435 (talk) 16:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

This discussion was listed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries. Rennell435 (talk) 17:02, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:USEENGLISH it seems to me that the French name has not clearly and undoubtedly crossed over into the English language lexicon due to the still common use of Ivory Coast, yes English absorbs others words/names from other languages(like any other language) aka San Francisco Sand Diego etc but here there is many sources here that still site Ivory Coast to cast doubt on the notion that the French name has really jumped into the English language lexicon without any ambiguity, so with that said i would suggest the name be in English Ivory Coast for the time being.--Wikiscribe (talk) 18:42, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
• Outrageous! The colour of the bikeshed roof should be blue, not red! There'll be blood shed yet over this, I tell you!! Fences&Windows 22:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

lol...we can never have too much levity around here. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose - Well let's see where other encyclopedias put the article shall we? Encyclopedia Britannica and Yahoo both use Cote d'Ivoire. So does the World Fact Book. Google News shows 700 recent hits for Cote d'Ivoire vs 400 for Ivory Coast. Google's ngram book search shows that Cote d'Ivoire overtook Ivory Coast in popularity around 1993. I'm not saying that Cote d'Ivoire IS the common name, but I think it's at least clear that Ivory Coast isn't the common name. Usage is a mixed bag at best. I think we should default to the official english language name of the country in the absence of a common name. TDL (talk) 01:00, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support WP:USEENGLISH Bhny (talk) 01:28, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
  • If we should use English, then "Côte d'Ivoire" is the right choice because that's the official name in English language. Laurent (talk) 03:38, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
    • USEENGLISH is nothing to do with official names, and I don't think there is a WP:USEOFFICIAL. Are you really saying "Côte d'Ivoire" is English and not French? Bhny (talk) 06:00, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
      • There are many English words of French origin, like "bureau", "accommodation", "crème brûlée", etc. and "Côte d'Ivoire" is just one of them. Whatever its origin, this is the name of the country in English language (not just officially but also in many encyclopedia, books, newspapers, etc.). Laurent (talk) 06:13, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
        • (edit conflict)Laurent beat me to the punch. "Côte d'Ivoire" is listed in many English language dictionaries and encyclopedias. Obviously the word is originally of French origin, but ~1/3 of all words in the entire English language are "French". The fact that a word is a loanword from another language doesn't mean that it's not an English word as well. TDL (talk) 06:20, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

• Weak oppose Cote d'Ivoire, being used in English sources, is in effect one of the "English names" of the country. So are names like Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata, etc. insofar as they have entered common usage among (at least certain communities of) English speakers. I don't know if Cote D'Ivoire is the common name but "use English" is not really a valid argument against it. This isn't quite the same as, say, calling Munich "München". 146.151.66.63 (talk) 01:56, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose as the current title is one of the two common names in use in English with the added benefit that it is the name listed in the ISO 3166. Neither name is dominant, and when there is more than one common name, we should defer to the name in English that the entity in question desires to use. --Polaron | Talk 02:43, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
  • I would rather say that we should defer to the name in English that is most recognizable. Powers ^T 11:35, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Which, thankfully, is Cote d'Ivoire. Well said. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:12, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

No it's not. Powers ^T 12:40, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose Ivory Coast is still used in English language news channels. I think some French speaking Africans keep the regular French name. In some encyclopedias, like Britannica, Collier's and World Book. The Britannica link for the country: [7] ApprenticeFan ^work 09:21, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Usage is pretty evenly divided. Stick with the current because it's official. A Google news search shows that the current name is more often used in the media (293,000 v 154,000 for Ivory Coast, and I think most governments have adopted this convention aswell. The English is certainly not the most common. Nightw 15:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
  • We should not defer to official names; this is even less desirable when they (as Kauffner argues above) are no longer official. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:06, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
    • The state's media does not deliberate on official toponymy. In this country, that would be the jurisdiction of the judiciary. So until a law is passed over-riding the naming policy of the Gbagbo administration, to call it "no longer official" is crystal balling. The name is still registered in English under ISO 3166 as Côte d'Ivoire, so it is still official. And we're not really deferring to the official here; we're choosing the name that, for the moment, is demonstrated to be marginally more common. Nightw 06:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
• Comment Let's take a moment to look at yet another organization that represents the world-at-large (although our US compatriots may not know it very well}: FIFA. a quick glance here shows the official name "République de Cote d'Ivoire", but the name of Cote d'Ivoire, and the 3-letter code of CIV (just like the Olympics). (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:19, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
  • FIFA and the IOC are both international organizations that use native forms of countries' names as a matter of course. We are an English encyclopedia that uses the English form of countries' names, so the two approaches are not comparable. Powers ^T 18:52, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
  • More seriously, they are diplomatic organizations that comply automatically with governmental pressures, whether from the government concerned or from a stronger neighbor (as with FYR Macedonia or Chinese Taipei). So here; that the former President insisted on this should matter only to those who had to please him; we answer to our readers. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:38, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support - I can only comment from personal experience, but "Ivory Coast" seems to be more common amongst English speakers. The nominator's five arguments above make the case well also.  — Amakuru (talk) 05:54, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Again. sigh. — Coren ^(talk) 19:46, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose "Côte d'Ivoire" has been used in most of the reference books I've seen for well over a decade. They even used that name on Carmen Sandiego! Zagalejo^^^ 04:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support. There seems no doubt that the more common term overall is Ivory Coast, while the more common official term is Côte d'Ivoire (and not Cote d'Ivoire, which is also interesting IMO). Under existing guidelines, that means using the common name. While this seems doomed to remain a no consensus for now, consensus can change and I believe that Wikipedia is gradually moving towards attaching more importance to the official name, and that this ongoing discussion is an important barometer of that trend. Andrewa (talk) 20:16, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support, not absolutely necessary, but it seems to be the more common name in Wikipedia's usual sense. (And "this has been proposed before" isn't a valid oppose argument.)--Kotniski (talk) 07:17, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support - Per WP:COMMONNAME and per the fact that wikipedia in English does not have to do the bidding of some government. The article is in English, therefore an English name should be used, provided there is such a common name. It is not a case of changing the actual name of the country (ie Burma) but just making the French one official. --Laveol ^T 08:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - It's clear the English media uses a generous mix of the two names. Since neither name is clearly prominent (this seems to vary from region to region), the official name seems appropriate. --HiltonLange (talk) 22:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

If you don't know which form is common use, I would have thought that would be a reason not to vote. Kauffner (talk) 04:09, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Er, WP:NOTAVOTE. People are allowed an opinion, and of course, noting that "neither is prominent" backs up the entire argument. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 08:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

After all, who could know which form is more common? It's a head scratcher, isn't it? Kauffner (talk) 12:52, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. Happy to go with the accurate, official name since the "ivory coast" variant is not particularly dominant. Should anybody need more detailed reasoning, I could copy & paste from my response to the last identical move request, or the one before that... bobrayner (talk) 12:43, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Support per the deterministic naming algorithm at WP:How2title via 1 (start), 2 (it is a named entity), 3 (does not have exactly one obvious name), 4 (one of the names - the proposed title here - is clearly the most common name used to refer to this topic) and 10 (done).

  Also, per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:OFFICIALNAMES, WP:TITLE (proposed title wins on recognizability, naturalness and consistency with other similar titles - it's a draw on conciseness and precision), WP:UE (yes, yes, I know English sources do sometimes use the French form, but it's still French, not English) and just about every applicable guideline and policy. --Born2cycle (talk) 01:24, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:COMMONNAME and also the fact that this is the English Wikipedia, not the French. Island Monkey ^{talk the talk} 09:35, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
• Common name? It seems that many editors here don't really know what the most common name of the country is, and just assume it is "Ivory Coast". So for information, today Côte d'Ivoire is much more common than Ivory Coast. A quick search on Google News for 2011 returns 51,900 results for "Côte d'Ivoire" but only 18,200 results for "Ivory Coast". Some British media like the BBC or The Guardian might use "Ivory Coast" but the majority of other media in English language don't. Laurent (talk) 10:35, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RFC close

Closing an RM with an RFC seems to be quite irregular, but it has in fact happened before to this article, and by the same admin. Keeping this article where it is obviously really important to somebody. Kauffner (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2011 (UTC)