Talk:Lake Tai: Difference between revisions

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POV

Not only does the grammar and logic need to be fixed, but there are too many opinions here. Save that stuff for Wikitravel. dq 17:01, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page's treatment of the lake's admittedly epic pollution problem is sketchy at best and dangerously party-line at worst. See New York Times article "In China, a Lake's Champion Imperils Himself," in Asia International Oct 14 2007, by Joseph Kahn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.12.197.249 (talk) 04:22, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name of this article

I'd suggest that "Taihu Lake" is not a correct name of this article. The name Tài Hú literally means "Grand Lake" in Chinese (Tài for "Grand" and Hú for "Lake"). Naming it "Taihu Lake" will cause a redundency in the literal meaning ("Grand Lake Lake" ?).

I'd suggest that "Lake Tai", "Tai Lake", or simply "Taihu", can be appropriate names of this article. --supernorton 05:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. dq 18:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think this page should be moved back to Taihu Lake. This is the usage by the newspaper China Daily. Although, a correct literal translation into English would be "Lake Tai", Taihu lake is used more. Ocedits (talk) 09:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Average depth

on one end, it says 20 m, and another end says 2 m. Which is it? O_o Hanfresco 07:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2007

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Taihu Lake → Lake Tai — as above —supernorton 13:20, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support Well, if Taihu lake means "grand lake lake" then I support the move--Pheonix15 (talk) 09:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support move per usage in English reference link. — AjaxSmack 19:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - If as stated then I agree with this move. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (tαlk) 21:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Lake Tai or Taihu_(lake) only makes sense. dq 21:37, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from Taihu Lake to Lake Tai as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 13:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move to Tai Lake

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no move. Consensus seems to be in favour of moving the page, but the new title is disputed. Please feel free to re-request a move if there is consensus for a new title. PeterSymonds (talk) 01:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lake Tai → Tai Lake — Tai Lake per adjusted WP:NC-ZH, Category:Lakes of China. --TrueColour (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose pending evidence that the proposed title is more commonly used. Knepflerle (talk) 00:13, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, see Google "evidence" below. Tai Lake more common than Lake Tai. TrueColour (talk) 20:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "tai lake" 34300 - "lake tai" 21800 - "lake taihu" 23300 - "taihu lake" 78900 - "taihu" 1700000 - "tai hu" 27700 - "lake tai hu" 292000 - "tai hu lake" 215000 — 76.66.197.2 (talk) 04:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Lake Tai Hu is more common 76.66.197.2 (talk) 04:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Can naming conventions override such Google tests? It does not look very senseful to take the Google count winner. This has much bias. Official Chinese sources use "X Lake", see Category:Lakes of China. TrueColour (talk) 20:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The most official source I could find uses "Taihu Lake".

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) has a section on how to determine what is an "Widely accepted name". I think it doesn't mention Google Web searches, though.

Google books yields 736 hits for "Lake Tai", of which however around 453, i.e. more than 50%, actually seem to be for "Lake Tai Hu" or "Lake Tai-hu". "Lake Taihu" gets 673 hits, "Tai lake" 656, "Taihu lake" 737. google scholar, on the other hand, is very much more for "Taihu Lake": 657 "Lake Tai", 1990 for "Lake Taihu", 1250 for "Tai Lake", 5320 for "Taihu Lake". Yaan (talk) 15:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Most common name seems to be "Taihu Lake". Yaan (talk) 15:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Taihu Lake, like Tai Lake would fall in the X Lake, see for this scheme WP:NC-ZH, Category:Lakes of China. Both are at least better than "Lake Tai". TrueColour (talk) 16:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the difference between "Lake Tai" and "Tai Lake". I would support a move to "Taihu Lake", though. Yaan (talk) 16:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support "Tai Lake" , OR if this gets no majority, support move to "Taihu Lake" TrueColour (talk) 16:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move to Taihu Lake

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page moved. Skomorokh 09:04, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lake Tai → Taihu Lake — Per adjusted WP:NC-ZH, Category:Lakes of China, supported by Google Scholar. --TrueColour (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Google Scholar (compiled by Yaan, see above) 657 "Lake Tai", 1990 for "Lake Taihu", 1250 for "Tai Lake", 5320 for "Taihu Lake".

Support the proposed move. GoodDay (talk) 00:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support per statement in last move discussion. Yaan (talk) 13:14, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move back to Lake Tai

The request to rename this article to Lake Tai has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Taihu Lake → Lake Tai – 1) As has been belaboured upon previously, the "hu" in "Taihu Lake" literally means "lake". This is possibly the only feature in China that I know of that has this redundancy.

2) TrueColour would be false now...The feature name guideline at WP:NC-ZH does not endorse the usage of "hu Lake" or "shan Mountain", which are both redundant.

3) I would prefer Tai Lake as this syntax more closely reflects that of Chinese, but as has been shown above with the evidence, "Lake Tai" is a more common name than "Tai Lake"

4) TrueColour is ultimately a sock of the banned Tobias Conradi, so the last RM in mid-December 2009 was procedurally void. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 14:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support for the same reasons as in a previous request that was later overturned without much evidence. I know the redundant current title gets some press but "Lake Tai" is more common in quality English sources (e.g., Economist, Guardian, New York Times, Washington Post) and is consistent with Wikipedia's style manual. I think people might not like "Lake Tai" because it looks so short. — AjaxSmack 16:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 91: / Line 91: @@
 *'''Support''' for the same reasons as in [[#Requested move 2007|a previous request]] that was later overturned without much evidence.  I know the redundant current title gets some press but "Lake Tai" is more common in quality English sources (e.g., ''Economist'', ''Guardian'', ''New York Times'', ''Washington Post'') and is consistent with [[WP:NC-ZH#Topographical|Wikipedia's style manual]].  I think people might not like "Lake Tai" because it looks so short.  — [[User talk:AjaxSmack|<span style="border:1px solid #000073;background:#4D4DA6;padding:2px;color:#F9FFFF;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em"><font face="Georgia">&nbsp;'''AjaxSmack'''&nbsp;</font></span>]] 16:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
-*'''Oppose''' It doesn't mean lake in English. It is unknown to mean lake in English. It doesn't matter if it does mean lake, since it's not English. The form used in English is the form to be used, even if some bilingual person will find it idiosyncratic. Seems like what was pointed out in the last discussion is that Lake Taihu or Taihu Lake or variant thereof (Lake Tai Hu, Tai Hu Lake, ...) is most common. There are many instances were language X has word River, and the English name becomes River River, because one is not English, and is attached to the English word, same with Lake. See how many times "al-Qaeda base" is used in English. Did you know that "al-Qaeda" means "the base", so that term is "the base base", which is stupid if you translate al-Qaeda, but you don't, since al-Qaeda is not known to mean base in English, it makes sense in English, since al-Qaeda is not English. [[Special:Contributions/184.144.163.181|184.144.163.181]] ([[User talk:184.144.163.181|talk]]) 04:00, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
-*:I did not say "hu means 'lake' in English". I said it "'''literally means''' lake". As AjaxSmack pointed out, quality English sources use "Lake Tai". Anyway, this post is one of the most ridiculous that I have seen, comparable to the only IP's post in [[Talk:Suifenhe#Requested move|this discussion]]. Reviewing administrators, please disregard this IP's post. It shows zero knowledge of translation guidelines as applied in Wikipedia. &ndash;<small>HXL's</small>[[User talk:HXL49|<span style="color:red"> Roundtable</span>]] <span style="color:red">and</span> '''[[Special:Contributions/HXL49|<span style="color:yellow">Record</span>]]''' 04:26, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
-*'''Oppose''' the commonname from the last disucssion is the current name. "Hu" isn't an English word anyways, so there is no redundancy '''in English'''. [[Special:Contributions/65.95.13.213|65.95.13.213]] ([[User talk:65.95.13.213|talk]]) 05:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)