Talk:Borat (soundtrack)

Name length

Does the page for Borat's movie soundtrack hold the record for the single longest entry name in Wikipedia? Please, discuss!

Theres A Dissertation on the American Justice System by People Who Have Never Been Inside a Courtroom, Let Alone Know Anything About the Law, but Have Seen Way Too Many Legal Thrillers-- Coasttocoast 03:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

And that's not even the longest title for a Clerks episode! It's also not nearly as long as When the Pawn..., but then again, what is? -- Kicking222 05:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Everybody's Talking

Did I hear the song "Everbody's Talking" by Nilsson in the movie, or have I gone insane? If I am right, it should be mentioned in this article. --Cs1987 13:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS to move page at this time. Some good arguments were raised by Anþony regarding WP:COMMONNAME. However, it appears from numerous precedents that when an artistic work has a long title, we're willing to use the whole thing as an aritlce title, even if the full title isn't the most common name, until we run into the 256 character limit. That Clerks episode is an example. Perhaps the guideline should be updated to reflect this apparent consensus? If this article is to move, I think it should be subsequent to some discussion over at WP:NC determining a consensus on how we handle artistic works with titles in the 100-256 character range. Meanwhile, redirects are in place. -GTBacchus^(talk) 23:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Stereophonic Musical Listenings That Have Been Origin in Moving Film "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan" → something sane — Current name takes up full two lines at 1024*768. Proposed alternate names are Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan (soundtrack) (previous name prior to a page move) or maybe just Borat (soundtrack)? Feel free to suggest other names. 74.109.173.23 00:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

• Oppose - if that's what the album is called. -- Beardo 02:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
• Support - The article need not be at the "official" title. See When the Pawn, an Fiona Apple album whose full title is an eight line poem. Typical naming convention is to use the common name of the subject. This reviewer uses just Stereophonic Musical Listenings That Have Been Origin in Moving Film as the name of the album without repeating the name of the movie. –  Anþony  talk  11:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Amazon simply calls it Borat[1], supporting Borat (album). –  Anþony  talk  11:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not really sure that When the Pawn's title is a very good argument applied to this. When the Pawn has two critical problems that don't apply to Stereophonic Musical Listenings, namely that When the Pawn's title is more than 256 characters and it takes up multiple lines, neither of which are supported by Wikipedia's software. This article's title is admittedly very long, but not prohibitively so. Kairos 21:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose - If that's the name of the album, use it. So it takes more than one line, I don't see any problem with using the actual title. --Milo H Minderbinder 19:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose - It's the name of the album. It's an awkwardly long title for an album, but that's the point. It's still short enough for Wikipedia's software to handle it, so it's not a big issue, in my opinion. Kairos 21:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly oppose The title is the title. It's not too long for WP's naming conventions (<256 bytes), so it's fine. -- Kicking222 00:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose, it seems to be the correct name, and is not causing technical problems... AnonMoos 01:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose, and I BJAODN'd the template at the top. oTHErONE _(Contribs) 03:04, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. Agree about BJAODN, this is not a useful survey without a specific proposal for a target name. But the existing name poses no problems, and appears correct. Andrewa 14:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

It seems the move is going down, but I'd like to point out that WP:COMMONNAME takes precedence here, not what's printed on the album cover. Wikipedia does not care about the "correct" name of anything.

Also, if the only reason to shorten When the Pawn is the technical limitation, why isn't it at When the Pawn Hits the Conflicts He Thinks like a King What He Knows Throws the Blows When He Goes to the Fight And He'll Win the Whole Thing 'Fore He Enters the Ring There's No Body to Batter When Your Mind Is Your Might So When You Go Solo, You Hold You? –  Anþony  talk  05:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Because that is an example where you HAVE to use a common name. Also, I never hear people talk about the Borat soundtrack, so I can't say what people usually call it, whereas I've heard people talk about Fiona Apple's album, which they call "When the Pawn..." (except for me- I use its full title, because it's fun to say). -- Kicking222 15:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

But ... we always HAVE to use a common name. Says so in WP:COMMONNAME. The common name is not the backup, it's the default. When the Pawn is not the exception, it's the rule.

You just called it "the Borat soundtrack", which is what I would call it and what Amazon calls it. I can guar-an-frigging-tee nobody calls it Stereophonic Musical Listenings That Have Been Origin in Moving Film "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan".

How do you think people will find this page? Will anyone, ever type out that entire name? I'll bet that Borat soundtrack redirect is going to get a lot of use. –  Anþony  talk  16:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Then let the redirect get a lot of use. I bet, in casual conversation, more people call America's president "Dubya" than "George W. Bush," but that's why Dubya is a redirect. I'm quite positive more people say ADHD than Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, but guess which one is the name of the the article. As far as this article is concerned, the title is the title is the title. If there isn't a technical reason to change it (which there's not), then we shouldn't change it. -- Kicking222 17:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, George W. Bush is more commonly referred to as such: 46.1 Mghits for "george w. bush" in quotes[2] versus 4.9 Mghits for dubya.[3] As for ADHD, WP:COMMONNAME does allow for several exceptions, particularly if the most common name is not particularly precise or may lead to confusion, preferring the most "obvious" name in such cases. For some, the meaning of "ADHD" may not be particularly obvious, even if it is common, so the full name is used.

451 ghits for Stereophonic Musical Listenings That Have Been Origin in Moving Film Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan [4]

1.1 Mghits for borat soundtrack [5]

I quote WP:COMMONNAME: "When choosing a name for a page ask yourself: What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine?" To put it simply, this article violates that guideline. –  Anþony  talk  18:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

You need to put it in quotes to have a hope of establishing comparability: [6] -- AnonMoos 03:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, 36,000 instead[7]. My mistake. Still beats the pants off of 254 for the album title with quotes[8]. Even weird ones like "soundtrack borat"[9] (625) and "borat movie soundtrack"[10] (1,010) beat out the official title. –  Anþony  talk  07:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.