Talk:Congo Free State

European POV

"Until the middle of the 19th century, the Congo was on the edge of unexplored Africa, as Europeans seldom ventured into its interior."

Uuuh ... Africans ventured there. "Unexplored" is not the same as "considered unexplored by most white people." But since Wikipedia is clearly written from the point of view of white descendents of Europeans, mostly English, I guess this is no surprise. I know Wikipedia has pretenses of NPOV, but there is no mechanism to enforce it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 16:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but 'explored' and 'discovered' mean, by definition 'brought to the notice of Western Civilization'. If you have a problem with that, you had better stop living in it.24.23.195.135 (talk) 08:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Population decline controversy

Following section removed from article as unreferenced by report's page and doubtful if there at all: "Roger Casement's famous 1904 report set it at 3 million, but later reports estimated the death toll to be much higher." 81.156.26.161 (talk) 11:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Finkelstein quote

I've removed the Norman Finkelstein quote, which I found dubious. It was akin to Holocaust denial, and Finkelstein is not a Holocaust denier. The source given was a Canadian cable TV show. Surely there are better quotes that can be used for the subject. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:45, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Turning a profit?

Anyone have anythoughts on this section, it isn't very good? I will pull the appropriate info from Hochschild in the near future. SADADS (talk) 19:24, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Leopold 'civilized' - right!....

This "by the civilized nations of the world as an instrument to bring its primitive peoples into the modern world"

I've re-written the 'Establishment' section in order to remove the obvious racist POV inherent in describing genocidal Belgium and its allies as 'civilised' whilst claiming that Congolese people are 'primitive'.

Congo is one of the most significant areas of human settlement in the world. For hundreds (if not thousands) of years it has been the home to various states and cultures, not least of which is the empire of Kongo, whose ruler converted to Catholicism in the 16th century. That this article does not properly reference this historical context is typically eurocentric POV.

Only the ignorant would refer to the people of the region as 'primitive'. Furthermore only the stupid would fail to recognise that the chief element in the scramble for Africa was not 'civilising' or 'modernity' - but imperial control.

African states were perfectly willing and ready to accept technological imports from Europe - but under their sovereign control. Europeans, emboldened by their steam-powered ships and repeating rifles decided to simply overwhelm African polities by force. This is neither 'civilizing' nor 'modern' (if we hold such terms to have moral content) it is simply aggressive - some might say 'savage'.

When I have completed my PhD (whose subject is cultural relations between Britain and Africa) I shall be back to inspect this page. Please ensure that racist assumptions have been eradicated by then.

One important reform will be to include a box listing pre-CFS states, so that a proper time-line is established —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ackees (talk • contribs) 13:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Watch your tone and read WP:AGF. Nobody welcomes rudeness. I've undone your edits, which are as biased or more than the ones you replaced. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 15:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Temper, temper. Couldn't see any bias at all in my edits. I realise that you have a good 'ole axe to grind, but can't you go grind it on an Alamo page or something? Much love, Ackees (talk) 10:40, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I've shown no temper, yet, but I will be quite happy to report you if you continue trolling thus. I have no axe to grind, so watch personal attacks. If you cannot see the bias in what you wrote and how you wrote it, perhaps a blog is a better place for you than Wikipedia. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 14:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Third opinion: The text added by Ackees, such as in this edit, should not be included on the grounds that it's pushing a point of view. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 15:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey Chris! I love the subtle menace of 'I've shown no temper, yet...' Hilarious! You should maybe audition for the remake of Dirty Harry or something. Now that's something I'd pay to 'watch' - you dear, dear, funny, funny chap : )

And as for HelloAnnyong. I'd like you to word-for-word cite exactly what the POV is that you think my words and compare them directly with the nonsense I replaced. If you feel competent to carry out such an intellectually challenging task, that is... x Ackees (talk) 12:48, 30 April 2010 (UTC)