Talk:Socialism

Lede/Defintion

What is going on with this definition? How and when did socialism become synonymous with a command economy/communism? This takes away from the descriptiveness of the terms, does not describe countries that actually consider themselves to be socialist, and is not in line with the ways in which this academic term is used in academia. This article is of extremely poor quality. The lede is cited using a dictionary definition and a broken link to an MSN Encarta page. I'm going to do what is needed to correct these issues and I'll include citations from undergraduate and graduate textbooks as needed. Otherwise, this page is of extremely low quality and represents a personal blog rather than an informative and objective article. In the future, please work with me as much as you can, because what is here is simply incorrect. You can voice any concerns that you have here, but in the meantime, know I can cut-and-paste just as quickly as you can.Nelbev (talk) 06:08, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

"Far too much human freedom?"

I don't think this line belongs in the opening section. Certainly some people who identify as socialists may believe this, but a socialist of a more libertarian persuasion - a left-communist or council communist, anarcho-communist, anarcho-syndicalist or libertarian socialist, etc. - certainly wouldn't.

I re-worded the sentence. Beach drifter (talk) 17:19, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Compulsory Charity as Socialism

Consider a state where membership to the church is mandatory. And that church teaches the obligation of tithing. After collecting that money, the church redistributes to the poor. This is a governmental system of redistribution of wealth. Socialist values were being practiced long before the 1700s. It would also be helpful for this article to discuss antecedents to what today is accepted as socialism. It could even draw parallels between the church and subsequent governments to historical abuses of such powers.--Tdadamemd (talk) 20:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Did the money primarily go to the poor, or to the building/maintenance of churches, sustenance of monks, and church military campaigns?98.95.164.190 (talk) 03:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Tithing went to the everything, from feeding the poor, caring for orphans, upkeep of structures, equipment, etc. Just like any socialist state. Socialism as a ancient practice is quite common ... but ... almost always voluntary. That is the fundamental difference between a secular tithe (the income tax) and the voluntary tithe, the use of force, and absence of choice. If one examines all the many brands of socialism, you either have voluntary socialism (more Judeo-Christian/Libertarian/Conservative) ideals, and involuntary socialism, (more pronounced in communism, or modern-day 21st Century Socialism and by the New Left.) It is a trust issue. Can humankind be trusted to choose to help their fellow men and women, or must they be compelled? That is basically the two opposing political systems in a nutshell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.28.222.158 (talk) 07:41, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Zeitgeist movement

I think the Zeitgeist movement and its predecessors (the Venus Project, Technocracy Incorporated) should be mentioned in this article for rehashing old socialist economic concepts in the form of the "Resource-based economy" - which is basically a form of socialism, where production is carried out for use and not profit, the means of production are commonly owned, and money, wage-labor and financial calculation as a whole cease to exist. Furthermore, the Zeitgeist movement champions similar strategies to those of the Utopian socialists of old - they aim to create futuristic, self-contained communities to demonstrate the superiority of their ideals, much as Robert Owen and Charles Fourier attempted to do. The resource-based economy should be mentioned under the planned economy subsection as a resurrection of socialist economic principles, and the Zeitgeist movement should be mentioned as a contemporary expression of Utopian socialism. Battlecry (talk) 04:18, 22 May 2011 (UTC)