User talk:Abd

Alternatively, I may not be back at all, more than occasionally, I have no crystal ball, and real life beckons invitingly.

Notice to IP and newly-registered editors

IP and newly registered editors: due to vandalism, this page is sometimes semiprotected, which may prevent you from leaving a message here. If you cannot edit this page, please leave me messages at User talk:Abd/IP.

WELCOME TO Abd TALK

Before reading User talk:Abd

WARNING: Reading the screeds, tomes, or rants of Abd has been known to cause serious damage to mental health. One editor, a long-time Wikipedian, in spite of warnings from a real-life organization dedicated to protecting the planet from the likes of Abd, actually read Abd's comments and thought he understood them.

After reading User talk:Abd

After reading, his behavior became erratic. He proposed WP:PRX and insisted on promoting it. Continuing after he was unblocked, and in spite of his extensive experience, with many thousands of edits,he created a hoax article and actually made a joke in mainspace. When he was unblocked from that, he created a non-notable article on Easter Bunny Hotline, and was finally considered banned. What had really happened? His brain had turned to Dog vomit slime mold (see illustration).

Caution is advised.

Offering you the same as I have WMC

See this discussion for details.

AfD nomination of Stephan Schulz

{{AfDM| page=Stephan Schulz|logdate=2009 December 10}}

I thought you might be interested in this vote. Vanity Pages for Admins really have no place on Wikipedia and it is high time to clear this detritus. ~ Rameses (talk) 11:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Abd may or may not respond to your note. He is, after all still blocked until the 13th. By the way, I have taken the liberty of slightly modifying your post. I hope you don't mind!<br. />--NBahn (talk) 11:35, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Apart from being canvassing (why me?), I'm not thrilled by AfDs filed by an editor as his or her first edit. It's funny, though. I'm an inclusionist, though, generally, and don't change that position based on "vanity." It's really irrelevant. By the way, I highly prefer Merge to Delete. It leaves the work in place in case later evidence pops up that expands notability. Delete is S T U P I D, unless it's pure garbage. It's a W I K I, after all. Were I to be interested in editing Wikipedia and participating in AfD's I might vote Merge with some of my old friends there, the ones who railed on and on until ArbComm decided I must indeed be a troublemaker if so many editors were upset with me.

I'm having more fun elsewhere. Some of you may read about it elsewhere, maybe even eventually on Wikipedia. --Abd (talk) 03:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Ping

I have sent you an e-mail. --Tenmei (talk) 17:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Greetings!

It is good to see you posting. Will you be spending time here after your ban is lifted? I am heading to bed now but ping me back here and let me know how it has been going. Thanks.

--GoRight (talk) 04:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Predicting the future is not my forte, except in very broad and impersonal outlines. I rather doubt I'll be doing much here. I'm topic banned as to cold fusion, which I've spent almost a year learning about ... and it was reading reliable sources (as well as stuff that researchers cite in peer-reviewed papers but which may be disallowed on Wikipedia) that brought me to the position that seems to have resulted in my ban. So the whole experience settled me into a view of Wikipedia that was possible from the outset, I was aware that it had been like this in places and at times. I already knew that to substantial segments of the core "cabal" -- as it was called from the beginning by Jimbo! -- I was unwelcome. ArbComm is far too aligned with that cabal, there are individual arbitrators who are independent, and they clearly find themselves outnumbered and outvoted, with little freedom. ArbComm makes good decisions on a good day, but it is entirely too much, as it has been put, "the Arbitrary Committee." That's what happens when you disavow precedent and place no value in it, when every situation is examined anew and highly personal considerations are applied, by people with little accountability. ArbComm decisions aren't predictable, which makes sense when a situation is new, but not when it has come up over and over!

All this means that ArbComm is very much part of the problem instead of part of the solution. Yet ArbComm itself seems to view itself as unsupported, beseiged, arbitrators have resigned at a hint of controversy instead of simply acknowledging error and moving on, meaning that some of the best have left. I do understand potential solutions to some of the problems, I detailed some of them during my case, and that very effort was viewed as part of the problem, I'm sure it looked to the Arbitration Bored as if this was some POV-pusher trying to make the system favor him. I was bending over backwards to avoid that.

All of this is understandable, given the system or lack of system. It was predictable, though not to a level of certainty. If I'd been certain, I'd not even have tried. Reading Wikipedia Review, there are many editors who have gone through the same wringer. Wikipedia cannot fulfill its mission until the community establishes process that actually resolves disputes instead of trying to bury them by banning people and, through that, effectively, positions. I was a Wikipedia editor, first of all, dedicated to NPOV and consensus as to the "sum of all human knowledge." I was following WP:RS and WP:NOTE and WP:DR, practically religiously. However, consensus requires that positions be asserted clearly until consensus is found. Restricting this without clear guidance on behavioral limits, as distinct from arbitrary post-facto and ad hoc rulings, is fatal to consensus. Consensus does not arise merely from AGF, and WP:AGF is the most violated guideline, though absolutely necessary as a practice. (i.e., "assume" means "appear to assume," "behave as if one assumes," otherwise AGF would be requiring naivete or even thought control).

ArbComm seems to assume that if N editors are upset with M editors, and if N >> M, then the least disruptive process is to ban the minority editors. It could look that way. It doesn't work, because sometimes the M editors are the ones following policy and the N editors are just following their own opinions on the topic, which are then justified by cherry-picking the sources, refusing to allow complete presentation of what is available in reliable source. As I wrote before, this problem is common with Majority POV-pushing, where the POV being pushed is held by most editors ab initio or by predilection. If Arbitrators don't understand this problem, then editors asserting what appears to be minority POV -- even if they are simply asserting what is in reliable sources, and seeking consensus -- can easily be seen as disruptive. Thus insisting on full dispute resolution process before coming to that conclusion about an editor would be important, the full process would document and reveal the problem.

Continuing to assert a position, seeking consensus through discussion, when faced with tag-team or even individual revert-warring, looks like tendentious editing to someone who does not take the time to understand the issues. If a minority editor follows WP:DR, it can be called "forum shopping." There was an active cold fusion mediation under way when I was banned from the page and talk, and that mediation was -- slowly -- making progress. It wasn't finished. ArbComm has essentially blown it out of the water, because, while there are other editors who understand some of the issues, I was the most broadly informed and the most able to collect the necessary arguments for neutral decisions to be made, and I'm now topic-banned for a year. It's difficult to see this as anything other than punitive, since I'd previously accepted an article page ban, was willing to accept reversion of even my Talk page material unless it was "seconded," in which case I'd still not participate in any edit warring over it, I was willing and even happy to accept a mentor who would have been able to advise me against being too wordy (which is the only issue of substance raised against my editing), but, underneath it all, in the proposed decisions in my case, the real issue can be seen: it was considered desirable to get me out of and away from WP dispute resolution process, where I'd been effective, with many examples, including your old RfC. It's hard to understand, apart from this, why some considered it desirable that I be banned from "intervening in any dispute" where I was not a "primary party." What behavior of mine would have been prevented by this?

I can only think of some examples where I'd successfully raised issues of administrative error or abuse. I pointed out that an administrator had improperly blacklisted sites where he was in personal dispute with the site owners and had clear content involvement, and ArbComm accepted this position. I was improperly banned by an administrator from cold fusion, an administrator who had a long history of involved blocks. When it appeared that this ban was no longer enforceable by the admin, I announced my intention to ignore it, and when I edited the article a day later, I was blocked by the admin, during the case, where he and I were primary parties. It was blatantly inappropriate, and he almost lost his bit immediately. But he didn't. Nevertheless, when he showed no understanding at all of the problem, he did lose his bit as part of that decision. And that ban was the basis for my filing the case in the first case (and my case became complicated only because of a piling in of editors who were, as I showed, highly involved mutually). In other words, I was confirmed. So ... what exactly justified the restrictions?

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I must assume that it was successfully arguing against a substantial group of editors, perhaps two dozen, including a few administrators (at the time, at least two are no longer administrators), who really didn't like that. Add to that, then and now, showing that arbitrators had accepted and presented preposterous evidence, evidence that contradicted their own prior decisions, literally. Some people really don't like it when their ignorance and errors are exposed, and if they have power, they tend to use it to discourage such. I am not the first person to notice all this.

Some Arbitrators are not restrained, and the others are obviously unwilling to confront this, perhaps in the name of "unity." But this is a false unity. A real unity would be based on real consensus, not suppression of differences in the name of not making waves. There *must* be process for raising and resolving issues, and it needs to be much simpler and more accessible than what is in place, which is largely unmanageable even by very experienced editors. And this is just one of many problems that flow out of the lack of structure for resolving disputes. The DR guidelines are pretty good, but without structure and respect for the process -- which can be tedious -- it's useless.

ArbComm insists upon others following dispute resolution process, but ArbComm itself doesn't know how to resolve disputes. Rather, it makes majority-rule decisions, often without a clear basis, hence those impacted by the decisions frequently don't respect them. And the general assumption seems to be that those negatively impacted by a decision would, of course, not respect it. That is a sign that knowledge of and reliance upon consensus process is missing. It is not inevitable that people adversely affected, in some way, by a decision, will not respect it. People who have worked with parliamentary procedure, standard deliberative decision-making process, have learned that you win votes and lose votes, and that taking it personally is silly, and that the right of the majority to make decisions is worthy of respect. However, standard process provides that it takes a supermajority to close debate, to determine that continued discussion toward the end of finding solutions that enjoy broader support than a mere majority -- which are essential for decisions to be broadly respected, if there is serious conflict involved -- and ArbComm has not adopted standard process, which has stood the test of centuries. It is running a far more ad hoc and ochlocratic process without the protections that make majority rule tolerable.

(As one considered expert on voting systems and election science, I often have a dispute with people who dislike majority rule, who favor, on one side, consensus decision-making, and, on the other, social utility maximization using aggregational methods like Range voting. My conclusion from long experience with both majority rule (standard deliberative process, i.e., Robert's Rules of Order or the like) and consensus process is that:

1. A consensus requirement favors the status quo, which then gives oligarchies that naturally form too much power. "Consensus" then becomes, when the status quo favors a minority, and in effect, minority rule, which is clearly undesirable.
2. The majority has the right of decision (assuming they are peers.)
3. It wisely exercises that right with caution and respect for the rights of minorities on any issue.
4. If one is involved in a society where the majority isn't wise and is willing to suppress minority views and disallow minorities the opportunity to fully present their case (which is required under standard deliberative process, through many traditional mechanisms), leave if you can, for the situation is hopeless unless outside intervention comes. Even if you are in the majority now, your turn will come.
5. If the majority is wise but asleep, be aware that waking up the majority can be very difficult, and some don't like to be awakened and will lash out at anyone who disturbs their comfortable nap. If you are making noise, you are the problem, for these. This is quite natural, and solutions involve setting up process for nondisruptive consideration of minority opinion, so that disputes can be resolved without a huge fuss, unless it comes to the point that a huge fuss is truly necessary. Usually it is not, if direct process is adequate. [[WP:DR] is designed to work, probably with this in mind. And it is widely ignored, and ArbComm frequently fails to notice this.

I wrote more, but it could be interpreted as violating my editing restrictions, something which didn't occur to me until I was ready to save it. I will clarify this before proceeding. If I'm going to violate editing restrictions, I don't want it to be over something as stupid as not understanding them.... Thanks for your interest, GoRight. I do appreciate all you did, trying to stave off the tide of insanity, I will not forget it.

Does ArbComm imagine that its non-evidenced decisions will be convincing? It seems to have some tendency to punish those who are not contrite; for someone to be contrite they must understand that they did something wrong. Thus it's important to at least attempt to convince ostensible offenders with evidence, and in a sane system, your friends would help convince you. You are not going to be convinced by an arbitrator presenting, without explanation, undigested and highly biased or even false or misleading evidence presented by someone, a party to the case, who had been attempting to get you banned for months, and who was himself violating policies and guidelines and disregarding Arbitration Committee rulings on the relevant topic, and who edit warred during the case over Talk page content. What would we call someone who imagined that this would work?

Except, of course, they don't care if they don't establish the basis for a ruling, it is of no substantial consequence. --Abd (talk) 20:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Contravention of editing restrictions

If you do not wish to be blocked, you should probably remove your contribution to the present RfAr which is in direct contravention of your editing restrictions here. Here is a reminder of what they say in case you have forgotten:

Abd is prohibited from participating in discussion of any dispute in which he is not one of the originating parties, unless approved by his mentor(s). This includes, but is not limited to, article talk and user talk pages, the administrator noticeboards, and any formal or informal dispute resolution. He would be allowed to vote or comment at polls.

Mathsci (talk) 00:10, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'll leave it to an arbitrator to make that call, or possibly a clerk. I was indeed aware of that restriction, but there are two problems with it. First, I don't have a mentor, formally, that remedy was written when a mentorship proposal was on the table. However, I do have informal mentors and I can and will ask. I don't expect that they will disapprove. But, second, I am already involved in the topic. Very involved, just not at the article itself, recently. I've been thinking of asking ArbComm to clarify the purpose of the remedy, so that it's easier to interpret. It wasn't based on any findings of fact, which makes interpretation difficult. I.e., had it been based on a finding of fact, there would be, then, some example of a violation to avoid repeating!

Thanks for the friendly warning. No, I didn't forget. My conclusion was that it didn't apply to this specific case, before ArbComm. While the remedy is explicitly general, had ArbComm intended to prevent me from commenting when I was already involved, as I am, it could have been more specific, and perhaps, if someone files an AE case, it will be. I have no intention of defying ArbComm. And, ultimately, I don't think that my comment there was disruptive in any way. Do you think that it was? I'm very much not calling for anyone to be sanctioned, I would merely want, as do others, ArbComm to clarify the situation, sanctions would be down the road and only if editors or administrators persist in improper behavior. --Abd (talk) 00:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

If I recall there was discussion at the time of my possibly being your mentor, Abd. Until you have a more formal arrangement in place, should you even require one, I hereby agree to fill that role and approve your participation in this important case. --GoRight (talk) 00:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)