User talk:Mnation2

Welcome!

Hello, Mnation2, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! --Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord² 21:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Try these

Hi.

I'm The Transhumanist.

I noticed you've been working on the Outline of Lebanon. Thank you. Keep up the good work.

Please consider joining WP:WPOOK. We could sure use your help on the rest of the outline pages in Wikipedia's Outline of knowledge. Our volunteers receive outline-relevant news and other messages, including tasks and collaborations, alerts of problems, notices of new outlines and outlines nearing completion, helpful tips and tricks on tools and techniques, etc.

In case you are interested, here's a trick using Google to find pages relevant to Lebanon on Wikipedia:

• "of" and "Lebanon"

• "in" and "Lebanon"

• "for" and "Lebanon"

• with "Lebanon" not at the end

(You can use the wikicode for the links above as the basis for new searches - just replace "Lebanon" with any other country or region name).

They won't find them all, but they are a start.

You can also use Wikipedia's categories, starting with Category:Lebanon.

If you have any questions about outlines (or about Wikipedia), please don't hesitate to ask.

I look forward to your reply.

Good luck.

Have fun.

The Transhumanist    16:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Bluelinking

There's lots of redlinks (links to articles that don't exist) on outlines, so one of our favorite activities at WP:WPOOK is "bluelinking" (turning the redlinks blue!).

We do things a little differently in the outlines, because they are lists, and because they touch just about everything on Wikipedia.

For example, one purpose of the Countries WikiProject is to standardize names for articles of identical topics between countries. Country-related article developers often don't check on what other editors on other countries are doing, so they wind up using synonyms. But the WP:WPC doesn't have the tools needed to standardize names. But the WPOOK does: outlines. :)

We wind up helping in a lot of areas.

The nice thing about reverse outlines is that they turn up problems that exist in the publication(s) being outlined, which provides opportunities to fix them. Since we get very little or no opposition to fixing problems even involving sets of hundreds of pages, we plow through them (well, it's usually our advanced wikitools team that does - let me know if you want to join it). The inconsistent naming of similar topics really stands out when you can't find a name that fits them all, and that's one example of a major problem in the encyclopedia-at-large that we've been tackling (we discovered them via redlinks in the outlines). To solve this problem, we've been bluelinking, and setting standards in the process...

In the country outlines, the standard links were carefully chosen based on the way coverage of countries is expanding. Using google searches like those I showed you before, countries were browsed to see how their article names compared, and then the title used the most for each subject recurring between countries was selected. Click on the links at User:The Transhumanist/Lists by country to see the usage of each standard article name.

When the material is in a section of another article, we use redirects to it, so that when that material is expanded to articles, the links already point to the right place. Otherwise, the links will grow out of date fairly quickly, because Wikipedia is growing at a rapid rate. In the meantime, we have a bluelink on the outline. :)

When there's an article, but its title is less than the most common name, we rename the article itself to the common (usually the standard) name. Then its link on the outline turns blue.

When the most common name differs from the country outline's standard name, we can delink the entry on the outline, relink the topic part of it, add a colon, and then add the country's article after the colon. Like this:

• National stock exchange of Lebanon: Beirut Stock Exchange

Ah, bluelinks. :) But that technique doesn't always apply. Use your best judgement.

The remaining method of bluelinking is to click on the redlink and start typing away. Yep, create the article. But more often than not, a standard link's topic is usually covered somewhere on Wikipedia. For countries, that means on the main country article or one of its major offshoots (Geography of x, Culture of x, Economy of x, etc.).

We generally don't use pipes, except for links to lists (including links to outlines).

The entries on the country outlines were also chosen for comparison purposes (especially in the geography sections). So when a (landlocked) country has no navy, for instance, a redirect to the place on Wikipedia that states that it has none is what we use, followed by a colon, followed by "none". Someone tried to RfD one of these, but we won.  :) Arid countries that don't have glaciers = "none". When the confirmation that there is "none" doesn't exist on Wikipedia, we go out onto the World Wide Web and find it. We also make use of libraries - to us "library" is not a 4-letter word. :) I'm in one library or another 8 to 16 hours per day. ;)

One thing to be on the lookout for is that lots of editors get frustrated with redlinks and delete those entries from the outlines!

Whoa!

But we don't edit war with them - that would just drag us into confrontational discussions which we might lose. ;) Instead we go in and restore the entries as bluelinks.

Redlinks are good. Redlinks aren't just links, they are also topics. And the outlines, which are lists of links, are also lists of topics. If a topic is red, it means that we don't have an article for it yet, or it simply needs to be bluelinked. If it stays red, anyone can click on it and create an article for it to turn it blue! That's the main purpose of redlinks.

But bluelinks are better!

I hope the above explanation helps.

Good luck.

Have fun!

The Transhumanist    21:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Priority of link types

A link to an outline is best, a link to a non-topic list is next best, and links to articles are least preferred. That's because all the outlines are branches of one huge master outline and so they hook into each other - each leads to outlines further down the hierarchy, when they exist. Think of the OOK as a tree, the outline pages as its branches, lists are twigs, and articles are the leaves.

Note that a great many lists, especially the "topics" lists (lists with "topics" in their titles), are actually outlines. They just haven't been renamed and converted to an OOK format yet.

Do not link to "topics" lists in the body of an outline. We've been adding them into the OOK after converting them, while others overlap with existing outlines, which requires merging or some other solution (some are too huge to be merged and need to be split up into lists). Linking to them causes more confusion and more problems than it does good.

The Transhumanist    21:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Lists

There isn't just one type of list.

But most lists fall into one of two types: structured lists and alphabetized lists.

Structured lists are outlines.

Alphabetical lists are indexes (because the vast majority of entries are links to articles).

The problem is that these two sets of pages have been competing for a single set of titles ("List of"). This is another big problem that the OOK team has identified. Also, "List of" is a bit vague when there are titles with a better fit (see WP:COMMONNAME).

So we've been renaming the pages.

The big question is, how many lists will be left once we've renamed all the outlines and indexes?

What types of lists will be left?  :)

The Transhumanist    21:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Great effort

Hey mate, thanks for reviewing those unassessed articles on WP:LEBand for creating new pages keep on! Eli+ 07:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

DLM

hey mate, the article is surprisingly informative/concise, it's fairly well written and requires some tweaks though, you may want to reformulate some of the passages to avoid copyright violation>>> just some minor copyediting would do it, i would've done it but i'm afraid to change the contextual meaning, you also need to add a couple more media files these may help A good article is—

1. Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and

(b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

2. Verifiable with no original research:

(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); and

(c) it contains no original research.

3. Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

(a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

(b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

If you have trouble with media files copyright status let me know Eli+ 18:39, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

hi i think you should split the ideological profile section ( and maybe just rename it ideology) and move the part where you speak abt the cedar revolution to a new section ( maybe = political position or stance) and expand it a bit. you also may need to explain the symbols of the party (the logo) if you have relevant refs (add a "symbols" section). A "Structure and composition" section would also be informative (leadership, committees and so forth...).

Oh and you ought to start the article with a history section which includes "formation" as subsection and include also "kassir and Hawi assassination" into it

==History==
===Foundation===
===Kassir and Hawi assassinations===

==Ideology==

==Symbols==

==Structure and composition==
===Internal elections==

==Political stance and activity==
===electoral results===
Eli+ 12:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

is [1] this like a DML manifesto? is it useful to the article? Eli+ 21:43, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

if you can get your hands on the DLM's organizational chart it'd be great for the structure section, my search revealed nthng :( Eli+ 21:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

hi again, i've been doing some editing on DML plz review them for accuracy, i will take a look at alyassar's website later on tc Eli+ 22:57, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

hi sorry i;m taking a "leave" i have two due reports to submit, i'll be back soon Eli+ 16:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Democratic Left (Lebanon)

I do apologise for neglecting this review. I'm afraid that it slipped off my radar, due to other pressures. I will get back to it later today. I notice that the peer review has been closed, so my further comments will be on the talkpage. Brianboulton (talk) 15:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Democratic Left Movement (Lebanon)

Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know I am glad to be reviewing the article Democratic Left Movement (Lebanon) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Yazan (talk) 05:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Congrats mate YOU did it, i am sorry i was not of little help. I am very glad you have managed to write an impartial and informative Lebanese politics article(which i thought was impossible :). Great job and keep on.Eli+ 21:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Outline of Lebanon

A bunch of edits have been made to this.

As our resident expert on Lebanon, would you mind taking a look at it again?

Also, the lead is a bit big. It really needs to be condensed down to the bare minimum needed for easy identification of the country (and what sets it apart from other countries).

Please see WP:OUTLINE for more information.

Thank you.

By the way, you did an excellent job on this outline.

Keep up the good work!

The Transhumanist    02:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Semi-protection on Lebanon?

I would support it. It's difficult to convince administrators to protect an article unless there is a really heavy, constant amount of vandalism going on over the course of several hours or days. They generally don't look at slower vandalism that is constant over weeks or months (which is the bigger problem, in my opinion). Feel free to request it over here though if you want to give it a try. ← George ^[talk] 21:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Eshmun Temple

hey mate, i have been working on Eshmun Temple for quite some time and it developed beautifully from a itsy bitsy stub :D it needs more work ( and the lead still contains an original factual discrepancy _ no sarcophagi were found there_ but ill change and develop it later) would you take a peek at the article and tell me what i can improve

NB: i ve been scouring for sources and bibliography but these are very rare!!!!!!

thanks mate eh w ma t3azzib albak abt the controversial articles on WP:LEB i gave up on these lonnnnnnnnnng ago Eli+ 20:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

hi again. I can't express how much I appreciate you edits and your time spent on the article. Prose is much better.

About your notes

1. Ittobaal is an obscure personage, ancient text only transmitted his name and no other info
2. Tyre and Sidon were rival city-states, much like the modern lebanese the inhabitants of both cities didnt have a notion of unity :D it;s also interesting to say that every phoenician city had a main triad of gods. When Tyre was besieged for 13 years, sidon took over it's maritime mercantile activity, references do not explicitly give this explanation so i think it's safer to leave it out
3. much like the princes of Judea, phoenician princes of rebel cities were also held captive in babylon. again, references do not say this explicitly about sidonian kings, so i'm leaving it out
4. Sharon plain. it stretches from from mt carmel to jaffa, little is known about the stretch of each kingdom;s territory due to the extensive use of degradable papyrus by the phoenicians (very very few records)
5. the Lebanon refers to the mountain range, i will keep the "the" :D Eli+ 21:24, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

hi again. the historical overview is meant to clarify the condition of sidon before and during the temple;s construction, do you think i should shorten it?? and maybe move the content to Sidon's history section? Eli+ 11:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

hey mate thanks for your help, you are doing a great job,

about GA ,.welll that is the plan... eventually. I still have to write a small section about Eshmun (BTW his article suX.. so does Sidon;s history section... aweful) lead will need some changes once the article is finished, i also need to expand the history section to include current situation. what else?.......... hummm, artifacts can be expanded i have to mention the bust of Achoris and the struggle between persia and egypt over the control of sidon much work to do mate Eli+ 23:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Faeq al-Mir arrest controversy

On September 12, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Faeq al-Mir arrest controversy, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Wikiproject: Did you know? 12:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Mnation2. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Lebanon#Proposal_for_decoration_.28barnstar.29_for_WP:LEB.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

RE: Jeita

Hi, thanks again for your help; i was about to give up on Jeita, there seems to be too much issues and the admins are very stiff. Eli+ 07:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC) I think we should move this "the only cave remaining in the New 7 Wonders of Nature competition" to the end of the lead, it's trivialEli+ 07:42, 18 September 2009 (UTC) Oh and I'd keep the definition at the top of the lead Eli+ 07:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Faeq Al Mir

First let me congratulate for the quality of the article, i found it very precise, enjoyable and clear, great job! I've known nothing of this controversy issue and im surprised that there's an actual mukhabarat article too!!. i have one for you:

• move ALL of the citation in the lead to the body of the article, the lead is a summary of the content and references here are not favored. that's all, i'm sure it'll make it to GA easily Eli+ 17:19, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh !! one more thing, you are a firefox user right get "ZOTERO" its ann addon that helps you manage your citations and write them in WP format, it is gr8! Eli+ 17:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Mnation2. You have new messages at JamesBWatson's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Speedy deletion nomination of Cedar Revolution

A tag has been placed on Cedar Revolution, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

some of what it says is biased!

You may wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles. See the Article Wizard.

Thank you.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. MilesM11 (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Touched by His Noodly Appendage

Just a heads up, I reverted your removal of the lead image from Flying Spaghetti Monster. I disagree with your removal of 'Touched by His Noodly Appendage'. Firstly, the author states on his website that it is free to use by newspapers etc. Secondly, we have an email from the author that Wikipedia is free to use the image, without reservations. Thirdly, even we reject the prima facie evidence that the author freely allows Wikipedia to use the image, there is a strong argument for fair-use, as a) the image is notable and irreplacable, and b) we are displaying a low resolution version. If you object, let's continue this conversation on the talkpage of the article. LK (talk) 06:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Green Party of Lebanon

hey , i started this article, the next day it was nominated for AFD . What's your say on this nomination Eli+ 06:39, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Democratic Left Movement (Lebanon)

Hi Mnation2: I completely disagree with you politically and want to call you all sorts of mean names. However, it would be a travesty to have you go unrecognized for your efforts so far. If you want, there is no reason that this cannot be an A class or even more. So:

		The Barnstar of Liberty
		For your work at Democratic Left Movement (Lebanon). You have significantly worked to expand Wikipedia's coverage of both social justice and politics with this article.Cptnono (talk) 12:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Looks like you are grinding it out. Again, nice work and you deserve that barnstar. Expanding the "Domestic policy" section will be the next and major hurdle if you decide to go for it. I'm going to make a couple quick notes at the minireview. Cptnono (talk) 11:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Faeq al-Mir arrest controversy

The article Faeq al-Mir arrest controversy you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Faeq al-Mir arrest controversy/GA1 for things needed to be addressed. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:38, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Faeq al-Mir arrest controversy

		Honorary Academic Phoenix
		For your tremendous work in bringing Wikiproject Lebanon articles up to GA status, we are thankful for your outstanding and quality contributions. Eli+ 18:04, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Mabrook :D, well done and keep on. Eli+ 18:04, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Flying Spaghetti Monster/GA4

As GA nominator of Flying Spaghetti Monster, I fear I must inform you that this [2] sort of activity and inappropriate juxtapostion of "fair use" with a simultaneous assertion of "free use" at the image page of an image purported to be used as "fair use" on the article of a GA candidate - will preclude its achieving GA status. Perhaps you could prevail upon Lawrencekhoo (talk · contribs) to retain this [3] version of the image page, where it is appropriately stated as "fair use", only. Cirt (talk) 07:20, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Is this a stupid Idea

Hey mate, thx for the compliment, i like the medals too. I was thinking of ways to make our wp more active, have more outreach and possibly socialize a bit and have a way to communicate since wikipedia talk pages are not very efficient. Would it be a terrible idea to start a facebook group ("Lebanese wikipedians" so we can interact better? I know some might value their privacy too dearly and prefer to stay anonymous, but what say you? Eli+ 09:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead with let me know, check out the tutorial Eli+ 10:03, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey again, check Khalil Gibran I tagged a section for POV, what' do you think about this? Eli+ 10:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Copy Edit of Flying Spaghetti Monster

Hi there. I'm a member of the Guild of Copy Editors and I handled your request to copy-edit the article Flying Spaghetti Monster. I spent about 2 hours going over the article and found it was fairly good, but I did make a significant number of changes. If you could, please look over the changes and verify I haven't corrupted any of the content. I do my best not to modify the content of the article, only the grammar and structure, but occasionally I do make mistakes. If you have any questions or comments, or if you still have concerns over a particular section, please feel free to ask. --Mpdelbuono (talk) 00:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello. Thanks so much for the copyediting! I do have a few questions:

1.) In the lead: ... "it rapidly became an internet phenomenon and symbol for the case against the teachings of intelligent design in public schools."

Why "teachings" and not "teaching"? And, for the sake of crispness, why not say "... and symbol for the case against teaching intelligent design in public schools"?

2.) "The open letter was printed in many large news papers, ..."

Is newspaper not one word?

3.) "neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID" (Scientific American reviewing the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster)

Do you have any idea what this quote means? Is it saying that the Gospel was not excessively elaborate or excessively spoofy enough to succeed at showing the flaws of ID? (That seems a little awkward and ambiguous, especially after reading the quote in context [4] ... I may replace the quote)

4.) "Board member Margaret Lofton, whom supported intelligent design, dismissed the e-mail as ridiculous and insulting, ..."

Since Lofton is the subject of the sentence, shouldn't "who" be used?

Again, thanks. Mnation2 (talk) 02:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

This is why I typically do two passes, unfortunately I didn't have the time and was planning to make a second pass silently tomorrow (today), but you caught me!

1. it's either "against the teachings" or "against teaching." In this situation "against the teachings" is more appropriate simply because you are referring to something against which there is a case (by reversing the sentence). Typically when you refer to this "something" it should be a noun and not a verb.
2. You caught me. That's probably (hopefully) something I would have hit in the second pass.
3. That quote confused me as well. I almost took it out, and honestly I feel that there are too many quotes in that section, but I felt it wasn't my place to be making those changes at this time. My understanding of the quote is that the reviewer was stating exactly what you thought—that what it did was neither excessively elaborate nor excessively humorous to be able to convince fringe followers of ID. Replacing the quote may be a good idea.
4. That is correct. Moreover, I think that's something I changed, and for that I apologize.

I will be sure to make a second pass when I have some time today. --Mpdelbuono (talk) 08:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Note: I have addressed the concerns #2 and #4. I will make a second pass a little later. --Mpdelbuono (talk) 08:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I completed a second pass by skipping out on some sleep. I spent about an additional hour on this pass. I addressed concern #1 by changing it to the following, very restructured, sentence: "After Henderson published the letter on his website, it rapidly became an internet phenomenon and a symbol for opponents against teaching intelligent design in public schools." Please look over my additional changes and let me know if you have any additional concerns, questions, or comments. --Mpdelbuono (talk) 10:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Your tone at Talk:Flying Spaghetti Monster/GA4

• Talk:Flying Spaghetti Monster/GA4

Perhaps you could adjust your tone here? Your most recent comment is a bit harsh. Believe it or not, I actually would love to see this article become GA. I find the topic amusing and thought-provoking. But my concerns about lack of comprehensiveness and otherwise are valid. If you feel you cannot address those concerns, that is fine, but I would appreciate a more collegial and polite environment in which to discuss it. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 05:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks mate :D

thanks for your kind words, i feel quite undeserving I am far from "demonstrating exemplar" attitude on wikipedia, i tend to bite often :p . yalla we need to get more GA, i'll be back in around 20 days, i'm finishing my thesis Eli+ 17:47, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

FSM lead

Just a suggestion: I think the lead at Flying Spaghetti Monster is getting too long. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:11, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll see if I can trim it any more when I have some time. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Cosmos (book)

On January 11, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cosmos (book), which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 18:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Insite contributions

Hi Mnation2, I just wanted to thank you for your contributions to the Insite article. I've been keeping an eye on it since I started it, and yours have been some of the most extensive contributions since its early days. - Gump Stump (talk) 19:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Cosmos (book) GAC

The article is only 10,587 bytes. I would expect it to be at least twice that size before nominating it for GAC. If you like, I can make some suggestions for improvement, but if I reviewed it right now, I would fail it. Viriditas (talk) 10:54, 1 March 2010 (UTC)