User talk:Doug Weller

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Coming here to ask why I reverted your edit? Read this page first...

Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply. If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, or I'm slow to reply, feel free to approach me here.

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Welcome to my talk page! I am an administrator here on Wikipedia. That means I am here to help. It does not mean that I have any special status or something, it just means that I get to push a few extra buttons to help maintain this encyclopedia. If you need help with something, feel free to ask. Click here to start a new topic. If I have not made any edits in a while, (check) you may get a faster response by posting your request in a more centralized place. If you need to get a repeat vandal blocked, you can report them to Administrator Intervention against Vandalism. If you need a page to be protected from editing, try Requests for page protection. If you would like to request rollback rights or account creator rights, Wikipedia:Requests for permissions is, well, that way... :) If your problem does not fit into any of the above criteria, and your issue is urgent, you can: Make a post on the Administrators' noticeboard, the Incidents noticeboard, or one of the other noticeboards. Ask another administrator for help. Here is a complete List of Wikipedia Administrators. If you want to ask for help, you can ask at the help desk for questions about Wikipedia, and at the reference desk for more general questions. You may also simply ask a question on your talk page and add {{helpme}} before your question. This will attract the attention of experienced users who will most likely be able to help you.

Did I delete your page, block you, or do something else that I should not have done?

First, please remember that I am not trying to attack you, demean you, or hurt you in any way. I am only trying to protect the integrity of this project. If I did something wrong, let me know, but remember that I am human, and I do make mistakes. Please keep your comments civil. If you vandalize this page or swear at me, you will not only decrease the likelihood of a response, your edits could get you blocked. (see WP:NPA) When posting, do not assume I know which article you are talking about. If you leave a message saying "Why did you revert me?", I will not know what you mean. If you want a response consisting of something other than "What are you talking about", please include links and, if possible, diffs in your message. At the very least, mention the name of the article or user you are concerned with. Also, if you sign your post (by typing four tildes - ~~~~ - at the end of your message), I will respond faster, and I will tend to be in a better mood, because unsigned comments are one of my pet peeves. If you are blocked from editing, you cannot post here, but your talk page is most likely open for you to edit. To request a review of your block, add {{unblock|reason}} to your talk page. (replace reason with why you think you should not be blocked.) I watch the talk pages of everyone I block, so I will almost definitely see you make your request. If I am making edits (check Special:Contributions/Doug Weller) and I do not answer your request soon, or you cannot edit your talk page for some reason, you can try sending me an email. Please note, however, that I rarely check my email more than a few times a day, so it may be a couple of hours before I respond. Administrators: If you see me do something that you think is wrong, I will not consider it wheel-warring if you undo my actions. I would, however, appreciate it if you let me know what I did wrong, so that I can avoid doing it in the future.

You can email me from this link but in the interests of Wiki-transparency, please message me on this page unless there are pressing reasons to do otherwise. Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, flame baiting, or that are are excessively rude may be deleted without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right, don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.

"Rooney"

Dear Doug (If I may? Am I right that this is you first name?). Thanks so very much for your help with this rather silly but ugly situation - and, also, for your thoughtful and informed comments. I am so relieved. You have been most kind indeed. Cheers and loads of best wishes are flowing your way from Beijing this morning. John Hill (talk) 23:48, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	Thanks so much for stepping in and resolving a potentially nasty situation - I am very grateful for your skilled assistance. John Hill (talk) 02:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Venus of Hohle Fels

Hi again Doug, It's been a long time, but I see that you've moved up from moderating sci.arch. to moderating Wikipedia. Congratulations!

With respect to the COI question you raised about my contribution to the Venus of Hohle Fels, I just wanted to tell you that, in accordance with WIKI guidelines, I added a notice to my user page announcing that I have a COI because I've published articles on this and the entries I've edited. Since I'm relatively new to this, however, I'm not sure whether doing so allows me to now edit entries that I do have a COI in, or whether publishing in a field -- paradoxically and seemingly illogically -- prevents people from editing entries in that field?

In either case, the articles I wrote were refereed and published in reputable journals by specialists who evidently saw some value in the views I was espousing. But it appears that many of the people who edited the same entries I did -- in some cases redacting or entirely removing my additions -- never published anything on these subjects, deducibly because they have relatively little or no expertise in those fields.

I should note that the position I added to the Venus of Hohle Fels is the subject of a forthcoming "Brief Communication" in "Nature" questioning Nicholas Conard's and Paul Mellars's conclusion that the Venus of Hohle Fels was sculpted to depict a headless woman as a "fertility" symbol. Berlant (talk) 11:30, 8 July 2011 (UTC)Berlant

Sorry to take so long to reply. Yes, a long time, good to see you. Not quite the same as moderation however, more to do with behavior, copyright issues, vandals, etc. We welcome people with expertise and who have published, and adding the notice was an excellent idea. We do worry about editors adding their own sources (you'll see complaints at WP:COIN and you might want to look at that and its archives). WP:COI really covers everything though. When looking at your edits in relationship to WP:SELFCITE what came to mind was the sentence about WP:UNDUE " In any case, citations should be in the third person and should not place undue emphasis on your work, giving proper due to the work of others, as in a review article.". I felt, and it was just a feeling, that there was too much detail in relationship to the rest of the article (in at least on instance and I think more, sorry I can't recall which right now but I think it's the Venus of Hohle Fels, maybe another one as well). The other thing that can cause a COI editor grief is if they could be shown to be aware of criticisms of their work but avoid mentioning those. That would fall foul of WP:NPOV when coupled with the COI. Short answer: edit, cite you own work where it's published in clearly reliable sources (I'm hoping you've read the appropriate links for that), avoid giving your work undue weight, if anyone reverts take it to the article talk page, don't try to force it back in. Dougweller (talk) 12:17, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Your edits here [1] look far too assertive to me. If you want a discussion of them you could ask at WP:NPOVN which would also show good faith (although it's a bad time of year for that board). You might want to look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (words to watch)

I also think 'ancient mycologists' is an anachronism, how widely used is the phrase? Dougweller (talk) 12:23, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me, Doug -- especially with an open mind and links to the WIKI guidelines I need to become familiar with.

As I admittedly do have a tendency to write assertively, I often qualify my assertions, and did in this case, with the phrase "arguably, if not certainly." I believe, however, that I am familiar enough with the world view of the people who have contributed to and edited the entry for "Entheogen" to surmise that they'll consider my addition thought provoking, as opposed to "too assertive." But, if anyone does question it, I'd be more than happy to discuss it with him or her, and redact it if necessary.

As for the phrase 'ancient mycologists', I don't think it's either widely used or anachronistic in that (1) a mycologist is simply someone who studies fungi, (2) 'ancient' refers to the period before 476 BPE, and (3) an ancient mycologist is thus anyone (e.g., Pliny The Elder) who was studying fungi before that date. If anything, I suppose I could have been more specific by using 'prehistoric' or 'prototypal', instead of 'ancient,' but, imo, the point is moot.

Hopefully, however, the people who read it won't be as semantically focused as you are :-), and none of my future edits will take up as much of your time as these did. Take care! Berlant (talk) 12:50, 9 July 2011 (UTC) Berlant

ValloVir block

Forget something important? Prodego ^talk 17:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Damn, I thought I'd done that! Thanks for catching it. Useless block without it. Dougweller (talk) 17:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Atlantis

Thanks for your input. I have reworded the entry, added some more info and provided references. Cheers, --Phagopsych (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Lost Worlds.org

Don't know if you've ever followed links to this site or not, [2], but I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with them. I've read thru a few of their articles and quit a few of them push fringe theories, usually involving a Mexican origin for the Mississippian cultures of Georgia. In fact it seems to be a pervasive thread that runs thru the majority of their articles that I have looked at. This is a theory that I believe has no acceptance in academia and is a debunked fringe theory at best. They have plenty of useful info otherwise, lots of neat graphics, etc, but their focus on this idea bothers me. What are your thoughts on it? Heiro 12:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll ask around. Meanwhile, here's another of his websites [3]. Evidently the lost worlds work was a Master's project, here's info about the video. [4]. Dougweller (talk) 14:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, that first one doesn't give me alot of hope, lol. Heiro 18:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

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== Chicha ==

I believe the correct source is a Don Luis G. Iza, see for example page 307 of this 1884 book. I honestly have no idea whether the "G" stands for "Goatherd", but I have corrected the article and added this reference. Thanks for bringing this to my attention! Best, Btyner (talk) 02:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but why should it be in the article at all? It doesn't seem significant - if this is the only suggestion that the word is Nahuatl and that is from a Mexican playwright then I don't think it belongs in the article. Dougweller (talk) 04:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

NSW NPWS

I noticed that you removed the photograph from the NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service, I had a feeling it was an hoax photograph but couldn't prove it. If there was an OTRS sent or somewhere they made the complaint as I'll be listing the photograph for DR on Commons. Bidgee (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Ticket 2011071210004476. Thanks, I was wondering about that. How did you notice it? Dougweller (talk) 09:37, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I have the article watch listed, must have edited it at some stage and had noticed when they added the photograph (my feeling of an hoax was the uniform and the vehicle which also lacks the logo). Had noticed you also stated "complaint" in the edit summary and thought it would have to be sent via OTRS. Bidgee (talk) 09:45, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Very sensible - and astute of you to notice the lack of logo. Dougweller (talk) 09:57, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

@@@== Jan Smuts ==

I see you are an administrator. That is a bit of a shock. But no matter. I have other things to do than to spend my time on Wikipedia. Cheers. Enjoy. pietopper (talk) 18:33, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

No reason to be shocked. A lot of us are pretty intelligent, it's not just me. Dougweller (talk) 20:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I see your devotion to NPOV clearly shining through on reverting an adequately (perhaps not perfectly)sourced quotation from Aristotle that I spent some time to research. Clearly you do not want the article on Holism to be dignified by anything like a classical reference. Why don't you take a little peek at the section in the Jan Smuts article dealing with segregation? It is just littered with dead links and references which point to sources that do not even mention the subject. Personally, I would just wholesale delete there, but I just know what a shitstorm will follow. Anyway, I won't be editing here no more, no more. pietopper (talk) 20:48, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that what you call research is, I suspect, what we call original research. What you needed to do is find source meeting our criteria that made the claim you made. I'm not interested in the Smuts article, but I did delete a statement in the Gandhi article about Kaffir having a different meaning because the source didn't mention him, so I don't think you can use NPOV against me. Dougweller (talk) 20:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I am not using anything against you and don't plan to. I promised myself when I joined Wikipedia that this was to relieve stress, not to create it. Further, I did not make any "claim" whatsoever, I merely pointed out that "the sum is greater than the parts" echoes the quote from Aristotle, which it plainly does. pietopper (talk) 21:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Fine, and I don't doubt your good faith with that, but it's fundamental policy that such statements need to be cited to reliable sources (reliable by our criteria). Our own research has no place here unless it's published in such a source. Dougweller (talk) 05:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Thisthat2011

I notice that in June you commented at Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/archive1#Resolution_3 that there might be a case to take the issue of Thisthat2011 to RFC/U. I have no idea if that happened but note that the contributor is causing issues at Talk:Kurmi, Talk:Romila Thapar, Wikitalk:India and numerous other talk pages (including my own).

His/her edits are consuming vast amounts of time that other people (including me - yes, I am involved) could be spending doing something that actually benefits the project. Is RFC/U the only way to deal with this? The user has had numerous warnings since May but nothing seems to be sinking in. - Sitush (talk) 10:12, 13 July 2011 (UTC)