User talk:Rosencomet

Archived talk

Hi Rosencomet, and welcome back. I archived your page for you since it was getting quite cluttered. If that's not what you want, let me know, or if you want something from the archive restored to this page, contact me. For more information bout archiving talk pages, see the link above your talk archive. —Viriditas | Talk 08:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

December 2007

With regard to your comments on Starwood: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Please stop your personal attacks on me. It is against wikipedia policy to continue to attack me as you do. This is a warning. Mattisse 12:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Mattisse

Rosencomet, I have asked Mattisse to ignore you, and I expect you to do the same to him. Please do not engage Mattisse in any way, because if you do, I will guarantee that once again you will find yourself blocked. Please listen to me on this. After having an extensive discussion with Mattisse, I realize that Mattisse is only interested in trying to block you and will continue to attempt to bait you at every level. Do not fall for it. Pretend that Mattisse does not exist no matter what Mattisse says or does. This will only make Mattisse look bad, and you will be able to file a harassment report. —Viriditas | Talk 14:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Whpq clarification

I hope you don't mind my posting this. If you wish me to not post on your talk page, just say so and I will certainly respect your wishes. I saw your post to User:Viriditas. And I'm watching his talk page because I've been in conversation with him about something else entirely, not because of you.

Although Whpq (talk · contribs) is not an admin, uncontroversial closings of AfDs (such as the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matthew Abelson one) can be made by anyone. Because I withdrew my nomination of the article for deletion, this is considered uncontroversial and the result is to keep the article. When articles are kept after an AfD, it is normal to put a notice on the talk page of the article saying that it had previously gone through an AfD with a link to the discussion so later editors can see the information and arguments made in the AfD.[1] There is nothing sinister or unusual about this action. See point 7 on this Deletion Process page link to confirm this.

As to User:Whpq being a sockpuppet, I personally think this is very unlikely. The account appears to have a steady, active, and consistent editing history since early 2006. Look here. I hope this information helps you understand this particular situation. Cheers, Pigman☿ 21:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:COI guidelines

Again, I apologize in advance if I'm imposing by posting this but a recent comment of yours indicated to me you still do not have a firm grasp of why I (and others) say you are violating Wikipedia conflict of interest guidelines. At the risk of boring you with material you may already have read, I'd like to post a relevant section here for your consideration.

Self-promotion

Conflict of interest often presents itself in the form of self-promotion, including advertising links, personal website links, personal or semi-personal photos, or other material that appears to promote the private or commercial interests of the editor, or their associates.

Examples of these types of material include:

1. Links that appear to promote products by pointing to obscure or not particularly relevant commercial sites (commercial links).
2. Links that appear to promote otherwise obscure individuals by pointing to their personal pages.
3. Biographical material that does not significantly add to the clarity or quality of the article.

Autobiography

Further information: Wikipedia:Autobiography

It is not recommended to write an article about yourself. If you are notable, someone else will notice you and write the article. In some cases, Wikipedia users write articles about themselves when the more appropriate action would be to create a user page. In these cases, the article is normally moved into the user namespace rather than deleted. If you believe you may be notable enough, make your case on the appropriate talk pages, and seek consensus first, both with the notability and any proposed autobiography.(all bold emphasis mine)

There is more that is applicable to your situation but these are definitely central to the issue. Financial interests are not the sole criteria for COI by any means. If your work advances the profile of an organization you are a part of, that is COI. If you write articles about your friends when no verifiable sources exists, that is COI. And when such writing contains almost nothing but your own knowledge with little in the way of supporting and verifiable sources, that is original research. I don't know why I keep posting this sort of info on your talk page. It seems I've done this several times over the last 16 months. I think I have an ideal that if the information offered and understood, of course you will do the right thing, will address the issues and alter your behaviour. Pigman☿ 23:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Paul is a bit off in one of these areas: Even when there are third-party sources, it is a violation of the COI policy to write about anyone you hire for an event, per Wikipedia:COI#Examples:

"Producing promotional articles for Wikipedia on behalf of clients is strictly prohibited."

If you hire them for your events, you cannot write articles about them on WP. It's a conflict of interest. And it is certainly COI for you to add mentions of yourself and the products you sell (tapes)[2] to these articles. (Note - As is stated on rosencomet.com, re hiring speakers and performers, whose tapes you then sell: "[Jeff Rosenbaum] is both the primary event organizer and product manufacturer for ACE."[3] and "For speaker and workshop availablility and contact information, please contact Jeff Rosenbaum"[4] and "A.C.E. Office MailTo: for general information, sales, and festival-related details: Jeff Rosenbaum[5]) The only reason this has gone unnoticed for this long is you were working in an obscure area of WP. Just because it hadn't been noticed until recently doesn't mean that what you did was ok. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 00:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, you are distorting the meaning of the guidelines you are quoting all out of proportion, and it seems that some of the arbitrators who have been involved in these issues agree with me.

1. I will say now, and again, and as many times as it takes: All the work I do, and that anyone else does for ACE, is on a voluntary basis, and we profit not a penny by it. I know it is YOUR opinion that this makes no difference, but that is just your opinion. If someone does volunteer work for Muscular Dystrophy or Habitat for Humanity, that does not exclude them from creating or editing an article about those organizations. I do NOT accept the broad interpretation that if any work you do as a volunteer for an organization helps that organization, you are FORBIDDEN to edit that article in any way. I do not consider a link to the website of an organization's program for an event with classes placed solely as a CITATION to support a fact, such as whether the subject of that article actually did perform or lecture at that event, to be improper, even if somewhere ELSE in that website a catalog exists (as many, many organization's websites have). I particularly find it hard to accept that interpretation from one of a group of three editors who act as one posting requirements for citations next to these facts. However, how about if I delete the citation needed tag with a "see talk page" note, and place the external link on the talk page? All I want is for the facts to stop being challenged, because I fear the next step will be to delete the facts, then delete the whole article as "too thin" or "lacking support for notability". I don't consider the ACE website to be commercial, because they pay no employees and all funds generated go back into programming. They provide a public service.

2. The Jeff Rosenbaum article was NOT written by me (nor Starwood Festival, nor Association for Consciousness Exploration for that matter). I have added a bit of information to it, mostly when someone required a citation to support information in it. I have also added references occasionally to make it a better article, more supported, and more accurate. I do not believe this is forbidden; as in, not that there is some guideline saying that it is not best practice, or "not recommended", or "one should avoid it", but FORBIDDEN. I would appreciate it if neither of you would treat guidelines and recommendations as laws. I have seen many, many cases of biographical articles where the subject or someone associated with them has provided information, or objected to information included in the article. (And I'm not impressed with "Other stuff exists"; precedent has to count for something, or all guidelines and rules will be applied unevenly and unjustly.) As for the other articles, I consider Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism to be the posterboy for COI, POV, etc, etc,... but I ignore these issues because I think that in general you two have been contributing to the article being better, even if it does advance the interests of organizations and a movement you are totally involved with from it's very formation. (It's also the posterboy for being WP:OWNy, as Kathryn would say.)

3. I also don't agree that the moment an organization might hire a band, for instance, that means that no one who donates his time to that organization is allowed to either create or edit an article about that band. First, these are not regular employees of the organization, but either self-employed individuals or ones working for/with agencies or their own organizations, engaged on individual instances, and in many cases they are not paid at all. It's like saying that if I ever had UPS deliver a package for me, Domino's sell me a pizza, hired Roto-Rooter, or have phone service from AT&T, I am forbidden to write or edit an article about them. Worse, it's like saying that if I volunteered for Habitat for Humanity, and THEY paid UPS, Domino's, Roto-Rooter or AT&T for a service, I can't edit those articles. Lets say I OWNED a store, totally commercial, and PAID AT&T for phone service, or UPS, or rented a U-Haul Van! Or if you worked with any of the Woodstock concerts, or Comic Relief, or Band Aid, or the Grammys, or Lillith Faire, or Lalapaloosa, well, there's a couple hundred people you can never edit an article about. The same goes for all the personnel that go into making a movie, if you were one of them. It is absurd on the face of it. I don't "hire them for my event", ACE chooses them by committee and ACE hires them. I don't HAVE events.

4. ACE has a lot of different functions, and different people have taken on different ones. There are several directors. One person is the primary financial director, another handles virtually all research, another handles the website, another the graphic arts and mailings, another all recording both audio and video, another all data-base related work (like the mailing list), and so on and so forth. I am not in charge of any of the above. When it comes down to it, my main deal is handling communications - the phones, the e-mail, the travel and other arrangements for events, the information inquiries and shunting them where they need to go: if you have questions about event details, product content, how to apply to perform or speak, how to contact someone in the group, ask me and I'll either answer them or get you in contact with someone who does. That's what all the stuff you talked about above means; I handle inquiries and communication with the public. I also USED to assemble our tapes and CDs, but frankly we just let the CD house do that nowadays (and we haven't produced tapes in many years); I should really tell the webmaster to change that. I don't manufacture the discs or boxes, don't record the original, don't duplicate them, don't assemble them...; I used to do it all back in the eighties. Now, however, I still often write jacket notes and sit in on the making of the inserts; but I don't know Photoshop or In Access or whatever the ACE graphics guys use. I also help edit by reviewing raw footage and making notes. But it's all a group effort, and all the money (when there is some, which is rare) goes back into programming. Except for the CD House, no one makes a penny. As far as sales, I'm the guy who takes the phone orders. I don't fill them, and I don't get anything out of it. I don't handle the on-line or catalog orders, just the phone ones, and they are rare indeed. Almost all sales nowadays are through ebay or paypal, and I never even see them. And truth to tell, they're hardly worth the work; we do it mostly so more people get the benefit of music and lectures by people we happen to think are cool. That's the Goddess-honest truth.

I am not paid to, or hired to, edit Wikipedia. I did it all by myself, the moment I understood that you can, and I did it because I was aware of a lot of people and things that I thought should have articles about them, and qualified for them, and I saw a lot of articles I thought I could contribute to. I did not do it to promote myself or anyone else, and a good deal of the articles I have written are about authors and artists who have never been to any event I have been associated with or even people I've met. I've been cranking out articles about occult authors for months based solely on information I researched, like Nicholas R. Mann, Al G. Manning, Vivianne Crowley, Ed Fitch, Prem Das, Laura Huxley, Sally Morningstar, Gabrielle Roth, Dorothy Morrison, Luisah Teish, etc, etc. I've done it almost entirely with only friendly and/or civil interaction with other editors, until you and your group showed up again. I've edited or continued to protect the articles of people I admire who are dead, like Robert Anton Wilson, Timothy Leary, and Baba Raul Canizares. I don't consider that to be self-promotion. I get nothing out of it.

You two and your friend have NEVER "assumed good faith" with me, and continue to watch everything I do and try to provoke me. I know there are some who say I shouldn't stand up for myself and shouldn't react, but there it is. I know you have the experience and the ability to bury me under mis-applied guidelines you can pretend are rules carved in stone, and I know you can keep poking at me until I respond with frustration, gather the responses and call them "hostile" or "agressive", even on my own talk page. Like when you say I'm attacking you for saying you're stalking me, when you maintain a User:Pigman/Starwood-Rosencomet Watchlist, and comment minutes later when I edit.

I think my work falls into normal parameters of other editors working here (at least now that I have become somewhat used to Wikipedia; I'll readily admit that when I started out, I made a lot of mistakes). I think it has value, and involves a unique set of subjects that might otherwise not be addressed, or not for a long time. I don't think my work has been commercial or promotional, no matter how much you twist your definitions. I wish to continue working with REASONABLE editors who want to guide and improve my work, but I really doubt that you want to help me, having seen your discussions about me to others over the last week, and knowing our history. I would rather see a truly objective administrator with a sense of proportion work with me, and let me discuss the propriety of anything I do that he/she thinks is controversial, and have you guys leave me alone; because I believe you are prejudiced against me and no fair judge of my editing. I don't know what your real issues are with me, but I do believe you have some, and it makes you pursue me obsessively and treat me unfairly.Rosencomet (talk) 05:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

MfD Result Notice

Hi,

The MfD discussion on your user subpage has closed as keep. Best wishes, Xoloz (talk) 15:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Neither Agressive nor a Violation of the Arbitration

Here's a snapshot of the work I've done since the arbitration. I can expand this, but I am very sick and must go home now. You can see that hardly any have edits since the arbitration, and the few there are not controversial ones, and there is neither agressive aditing nor edit warring. Out of 39 articles picked alphabetically from my userpage, ten had edits by mesince the arbitration, mostly non-controversial (fix link, new headings, an additional cD, etc). Only one revert; from an unamed editor with only complaints on his userpage.

• Matthew Abelson – Created Aug. 2006 - No changes by me until nomination for deletion, then only to swap a citation for a better one – Zero additions of Starwood mentions or links
• Amampondo – Created Aug. 2006 - no changes since arbitration
• Ted Andrews – created article in October 2007, added much info & bibliography – Zero mention or link to Starwood, etc
• ArcheDream – Created Sept. 2006 - no changes since arbitration
• Armor & Sturtevant – Created Sept. 2006 - No changes since arbitration
• Badi Assad – Created article March 2007, no changes since arbitration, zero mention of Starwood, etc
• Pamela J. Ball – Created article in October 2007 – zero mention of Starwood, etc
• John Bassette – Created article in Dec. 2006 – only changes since arbitration fix links & typo
• Steve Blamires – Created article Aug. 2006 – only changes since arbitration addition of upcoming book & 2 articles – Pigman deletes book and mention of WinterStar workshop from BEFORE arbitration as undue weight – I do NOT revert
• Gavin Bone – Created article Sept. 2006 – only change since arbitration grammar correction and trimming of repetitious language in November 2007 – Pigman deletes mention of Starwood from BEFORE arbitration in Feb. 2007 – I do NOT revert
• Brushwood Folklore Center – Created article in March 2007 – no changes since arbitration
• Baba Raul Canizares – Created article in Aug 2006 – no changes since arbitration
• Miriam Chamani – Created article in Aug. 2006 – only change since arbitration fix of a link unrelated to Starwood etc
• Dennis Chernin – Created article Aug. 2006 – no changes since arbitration – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Chas S. Clifton – Created article Oct. 2007 – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• D. J. Conway – Created article Oct 2007 – Zero Mention of Starwood, etc
• Ian Corrigan – Created article Aug. 2006 – no changes since arbitration except adding one mention of a non-ACE CD Corrigan contributed to under “Music
• Vivianne Crowley – Created article Oct 2007 – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Phyllis Curott – Created article August 2006 – no changes since arbitration
• Prem Das – Created article Aug 2006 – no changes since arbitration, Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Jim Donovan – Created article Sept 2006 – no changes since arbitration except condensing some repetitious text and placing DVD as subset of Discography
• Dr. Strange (1978 film) – created article Feb. 2007 – no changes since arbitration – Zero mention of Starwood, etc
• Nevill Drury – Created article Oct. 2007 – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Sally Eaton – Created article August 2006 – fixed a Wikilink to ACE from a tape produced by them, fixed a link to Paramount Record from another album – no other changes since arbitration
• Robert Lee "Skip" Ellison – recreated article Dec. 2006 per request on Project Neo-Paganism page – added a couple Wikilinks and a book reference – no other changes since arbitration
• [[Philip H. Farber] ] – created article Aug. 2006 – no changes since arbitration
• LaSara Firefox – created article Oct 2006 – no changes since arbitration
• Ed Fitch – Created article Nov. 2007 – zero mention of Starwood etc
• Laurence Galian – Created article Aug. 2006 – no changes since arbitration except deletion of sentence “This article appears to be partially a vanity article’ from body of article, with suggestion to express opinions on the talk page
• Victoria Ganger – added a couple non-ACE-related facts, improved headings. Pigman deletes overlinking, deletes some data as “OR”, then nominates for deletion. I delete some more overlinkage, and Wikilink a book author already there to her article. Pigman deletes book as “inadequate”. Kathryn deletes now-defunct “footnotes” section. I add a CD to discography. I Wikilink 2 city names and a college name. I revert nothing.
• Michael T. Gilbert – I create article August 2006 – no changes since arbitration – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Jesse Wolf Hardin – I create article August 2006 – Aug. 2007 added new headings, reorganized data, and reverted unexplained deletion of large sections – deleted “like resume’” tag after re-write – no added Starwood-related text since arbitration
• George R. Harker – created article Oct 2006 – added a book Nov. 2007 to address notability tag – deleted tag and discussed on talk page – no addition of ACE-related info since arbitration
• Ellen Evert Hopman – Created article Aug. 2006 (recreated after deletion by 999 Sept. 2006) – no changes since arbitration – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Laura Huxley – Created article Jan. 2007 – No edits since arbitration - Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Anodea Judith – created article Aug. 2006 – No edits since arbitration - Zero Mention of Starwood etc
• Amber K – Created article Oct 2007 – does contain mention of and Wikilink to Starwood article. This did involve a revert of an unnamed editor’s deletion, after visiting his talk page and finding nothing but complaints.
• Richard Kaczynski – Created Sept. 2006 – no changes since arbitration
• Sirona Knight – Created Nov. 2007 – Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Lehto and Wright - Created June 2007 - only mention of Starwood in Performance Venues section, only wikilink, no controversial edits since
• List of Marvel Comics mutants - created May 2007 - Zero Starwood etc mention
• [[List of Neo-Pagan festivals and events - created March 2007 - only wikilink for Starwood Festival and Winterstar Symposium - Pigman deletes all names without their own articles, I discuss but do NOT revert, putting all deleted names on talk page for future editors to write articles and provide some web links for research.
• Nicholas R. Mann - created Nov. 2007 - zero Starwood etc mention
• Al G. Manning - created Nov. 2007 - Zero mention of Starwood etc
• Louis Martinie' - created Aug. 2006 - various links, citations and wikilinks added, not about Starwood etc
• Patricia Monaghan - created Aug 2006 - no edits since arbitration except mention of Maybe Logic Academy (not Starwood etc. related)

Please don't characterize me as someone who has "learned nothing", or who has been displaying the same behavior since the arbitration. It just isn't true. I'll expand this list to include EVERY article I've edited since then if necessary. By far the majority of my edits were either to articles with no Starwood etc reference, or the edits I did had nothing to do with Starwood etc, and in that case it was usually to respond to a request for a citation or something.Rosencomet (talk) 19:21, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Llewellyn Worldwide

Have you ever had any business relationship (non-profit, for-profit or mutual exchange) with Llewellyn Worldwide? - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 03:22, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I have never had any relationship with Llewellyn Publications or Llewellyn Worldwide. Back in the eighties, ACE was given permission to produce some out-of-print tapes of theirs when they went out of the business of producing tapes. They were produced under the ACE/Llewellyn Collection label. I never got anything out of it, nor did anyone else associated with ACE. As I've said many times before, everyone who does work for ACE does so on a volunteer basis, and no one profits from it. (By the way, ACE no longer produces tapes; they haven't for many years. Does anyone? Whatever is in their catalog is old stock from at least ten years ago.)

Please stop saying things like "One of the problems with all these artist articles he's been creating is he uses them as a place to insert mentions of himself, his work, the tapes he sells, and his events. By working to raise the profile of the artists he hires, he is also working to raise the profile of his festival and, I think it's reasonable to assume, drive more business his way." I have no events. I sell no tapes. I hire no artists. I do not have a festival. No business is coming my way. I make my money in a totally unrelated way, and I make no money from anything I do for or with ACE. I do not "hire acts" for ACE events; ACE hires them based on committee vote.

As far as writing articles based on "bio blerbs", I stopped doing that long ago because they were not suitable copy for Wikipedia articles, and since I have searched the internet for better sources. In fact, the vast majority of articles I have written since the arbitration have not been ACE or Starwood related. Who's profile am I trying to raise? And I don't accept that the article of any artists who has ever appeared at an ACE event is now a "Starwood-related article". One fact in the entire biography of an individual doesn't mean non-controversial information like additional book titles, albums, ISBN numbers, etc can't be added by me without violating some rule. I happen to be a member of the Neo-Pagan community, and I want to write articles about notable members like authors and major organizations, organizers and related topics. I also write about sixties icons, entheogenics authors, comic books, cartoons, and musicians I like.

Please stop looking at "16 months of activity" when you judge, or discuss, what I've done since the arbitration. If you compare my editing before and after the arbitration was over, you'll see a distinct difference. Also, don't act like material that was up before the arbitration was over is material I've added since that time. Lumping it all in as if I haven't responded to the arbitration is simply unfair.Rosencomet (talk) 20:08, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, all of this info about selling the tapes and CDs (and the [www.cafepress.com/starwood.8503799 rosencomet thongs], etc.) is contradicted by the info on rosencomet.com. It looks to me like you also sell tapes/CDs in partnership with Llewellyn Worldwide; therefore, it appears to me like you also have a conflict of interest in writing about Llwellyn authors. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 23:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of WinterStar Symposium

I have nominated WinterStar Symposium, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WinterStar Symposium. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 02:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Jeff Rosenbaum

An article that you have been involved in editing, Jeff Rosenbaum, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeff Rosenbaum (2nd nomination). Thank you. Pigman☿ 06:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Warning: Attempted Vote-Stacking on AfDs and Content Disputes

WARNING - You are engaging in WP:CANVASSing, specifically of the Wikipedia:CANVASS#Campaigning and Wikipedia:CANVASS#Votestacking sort, as you are only posting to people that have supported your position in past AfDs or content disputes: User:Viriditas, User:Septegram, User:Modemac, User:Dave Null. Rosencomet, if you continue after this warning, what you are doing is a blockable offense, especially as you have done it multiple times before. This is your only warning. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 20:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, canvassing off-wiki for new users to come and "vote" is against policy as well. Stop doing it. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 20:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Starwood Festival and related articles

Dear Fred, I don't know if you are aware of this, but I hoped you might comment on a big problem I have been having. For six months since the arbitration, I have been editing with very little conflict, and mostly creating new non-Starwood-related articles. I have added to and improved a lot of the other articles, mostly in non-controversial ways (like adding books and/or ISBN numbers to bibliographies and info to discographies of people who happened to have appeared at an ACE event), or to satisfy requests for citations. Perhaps I put some of this info under the wrong headings, calling something a reference when it should have been a note or put under "further reading", or whatever. But I have sincerely been trying to support the work I have done, do new work unrelated to the articles that were controversial, and avoid any conflicts.

However, two weeks ago Mattisse, Pigman and Kathryn suddenly appeared, and proceeded on what I can only call a campaign to eliminate as much mention of ACE and it's events as possible. They began with a tagging spree reminiscent of the one by Mattisse and her sock puppets that started my problems before. My immediate response was to ask Thatcher for help and advice, but for some reason he would not respond to me for nearly a week. During that time, it turned out, he was talking to the three of them here [6] without even telling me this conversation was happening. I had asked him if there was still an advocate system, but he never answered me. (I'm not trying to slam Thatcher, I'm just pointing out that I've tried to deal with this without revert wars or other unpleasantness). Since then Pigman has opened discussions here [7] and elsewhere, all with no one telling me so I could respond, and he has a watchlist devoted just to my work.

In the past two weeks he and Kathryn have deleted material from at least thirty articles I've created or regularly edit, nominated five for deletion (two successfully, one not, two pending), and have made some frankly bizzare interpretations of Wikipedia rules. For instance, Pigman deleted mention of the Starwood Festival appearances from Paul Krassner's article, even though he has written two articles about Starwood, been quoted in High Times about it, and appeared at six out of the last ten. He claims that the event must not be important to Krassner because he doesn't mention it by name on his official bio, just as "a Neo-Pagan festival". Even when Paul Krassner himself wrote in to the talk page that it was important to him and why, Pigman has not returned this data. I believe he is hoping I will engage in a revert war, so he can call it aggressive editing and a violation of the arbitration. In fact, he has ALREADY accused me of that; I thnk it is clear that these three want to drive me and my work out of Wikipedia by any means. Another strange rule: Kathryn claims that since in the eighties ACE got permission to re-issue a handful of cassette tapes from Llewellyn, I am not allowed to edit ANY article by ANY author who has ever had a book published by Llewellyn, America's oldest occult publisher, even though I have never worked for nor received a penny from Llewellyn, and my work with ACE is totally voluntary and unpaid. They have changed the copy on the Jeff Rosenbaum article, too, so instead of "he has produced over 100 tapes and CDs" they say "produced and sold" although this is not true, and added "Through ACE, Rosenbaum produces cassette tapes and CDs of the artists who appear at ACE events, and markets them through the ACE website" as if they belong to and are marketed by Rosenbaum who merely takes advantage of the website to make money for himself. This is a lie, and IMO a violation of WP:Bio, and I have said so several times.

In spite of the failed attempts several months ago, which you commented on at the time, to merge the articles Starwood Festival, WinnterStar Symposium, Association for Consciousness Exploration and Jeff Rosenbaum, and even though the articles are expanded since then, they are trying to do it again. Worse, they delete the citations and references for paltry reasons, then delete the facts as uncited, then say the article isn't notable.

I don't know what to do. It's a gang-up of three against one, and I don't have the cadre they do to bully their way to whatever they want. On top of that, I'm afraid to do anything because of the accusations of violating the arbitration. I don't know what I can or can't do, and they claim I can't do anything at all. I desperately need some help. They've already deleted some articles, and they seem to be visiting every article I have ever created or edited, and consider ANY reference to these events no matter how well supported as undue weight or trivial. And any editor who says anything in my support gets confronted. What can I do? Rosencomet (talk) 21:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

How about asking for reopening of the original arbitration case and adding these new interested editors as parties? Fred Bauder (talk) 22:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing

It is severely frowned upon to canvass users for an AfD. I have reverted your recent canvassing. Please don't do this again. ➔ REDVEЯS says: at the third stroke the time will be 22:37, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

No, really. Don't. Not even "by the rules this time". Really. ➔ REDVEЯS says: at the third stroke the time will be 23:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I have looked over the material about canvassing. The original posts I placed had been taken down by another editor. I replaced three of them with a simple notification that this nomination had been opened, and since they had commented on one before, I thought they'd like to know. The one I did not replace at all was to an editor who seems not to be editing for months. I see the phrase "not set in stone" right at the top. I see phrases like "no mass editing" and "neutral language".

Under "Campaigning", it says "A hard and fast rule does not exist with regard to selectively notifying on their talk pages certain editors who have or are thought to have a predetermined point of view, in order to influence a vote. However, the greater the number of editors contacted, the more often this behavior is engaged in, and the greater the resulting disruption, the more likely it is that this behavior will result in warnings and/or sanctions." This is a message to three editors only, neutrally worded, and I have nort done this "often" at all. It is also not votestacking, since there were no "mass talk messages". If there is no hard and fast rule, no mass messages, neutral language and only three people contacted, I do not see this as canvassing, and I certainly don't see it as a "blockable offence". Nonetheless, you have reverted this, even though you characterized what I did this time as "by the rules".

I don't understand how I get messages about deletion nominations on my talk page if it's forbidden for me to put any on anyone else's page. Rosencomet (talk) 23:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I linked to the explanation of the block policy in my first warning to you above, with the words "blockable offense". This is the policy: Wikipedia:CANVASS#Responding_to_disruptive_canvassing. The relevant section is this: "Users with a prior history of disruptive canvassing, which they have previously been asked to discontinue, may be blocked immediately without further warning, if such an action is deemed to be necessary." - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 00:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Repeated Violations of WP:CIVIL and other disruptive editing

Rosencomet, you may have trouble hearing this from me, as you appear to think I have some sort of agenda towards you. However, your editing is getting even more disruptive. You really, really need to treat other Wikipedians with respect if you intend to remain here. I'm referring to your comments about Pigman here: [8], though those are just the most recent in a long history of accusing others of "harrassing" and "stalking" you (I'll provide diffs if you need your memory refreshed). I know that you know this is wrong, as many other editors have tried to talk to you about this during your time here. If you cannot stop insulting people and making personal attacks, you're going to wind up blocked again. That's not a threat, it's just a statement about how WP and the WP community works. You are not an exception to the rules we all have to follow here. You need to take this seriously and stop it. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 23:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Your editing as both User:Rosencomet and User:Jeff Rosenbaum

Jeff, as you have created an alternate account, Jeff Rosenbaum,[9] and now used it to comment on an AfD in which you had already commented as Rosencomet, you need to familiarize yourself with the policies at WP:SOCK. Participating in an AfD under two different accounts is not permitted. Also, an alternate account needs to be indicated as such on your userpages if you are using the account in good faith. I have flagged the accounts as alternates. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 05:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Hippie.

Nah, it's OK. My edits should have been reverted (only now I'm realizing that I've made a good faith vandalism), Your reverts were completely justified. And by the way, we have the same surname...! what are the odds? --~Magnolia Fen (talk) 09:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: psychedelic drugs on Moses, abc news

Could you comment on my plan as presented here? I feel that you have some expertise in this area, and can shed some guiding light. —Viriditas | Talk 23:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I would love to know what you think of this article: Shanon, Benny. "Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis". Time and Mind, Volume 1, Number 1, March 2008 , pp. 51-74. Click on the PDF link at the bottom; it's free. —Viriditas | Talk 13:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

John Bassette

Hi Rosencomet, and thanks for your kind words about John Bassette. I was also a fan, and found it very strange that the entry's notability was questioned (and on ridiculous grounds, too -- the original comment line was "notability questioned - few Google hits excluding this article" which has nothing whatever to do with the Wikipedia's stated criteria for notability. When, on one of the linked sites, I saw a citation from the Providence Journal about John's performance at the 1967 Newport Folk Festival, I figured I could do my part, as my college library has a full run of the "ProJo" on microfilm; turned out to be quite a find! It was amazing to see the impact John made in a year dominated by Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant Massacreee," and in a newspaper column which erroneously mentioned the then-unknown "Joanie Mitchell" and mis-named her songs, commenting only on her yellow miniskirt! I will try to keep making improvements as I can, and I share your wish that John's orginal recordings be re-issued some day! Best regards, Clevelander96 (talk) 15:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

And yet more COI and sock issues

You may not want to disclose your alternate account but, due to the fact that you have used it on some of the same pages, the only way you can do this and not be blocked for sockpuppetry is to disclose it. Therefore I have reverted your removal of the disclosure notice from your userpage. You can remove it again if you really want to, but I wouldn't recommend it. I am also concerned that you are once again back to editing WP:COI articles of people whom you have hired to perform at the Starwood Festival, such as Gavin Frost, ArcheDream[10], Isaac Bonewits[11], Dagmar Braun Celeste, Jeff McBride (where you also added a Starwood link [12]) as well as the many people in the Gnosticon page you started,[13]. Gnosticon was also an enterprise of Llewellyn Worldwide, with whom you have a past business arrangement (selling the "ACE/Llewllyn" line of tapes and CDs), and whose stable of authors are basically the same crowd you hire for Starwood. I am stunned that you are back to violating these policies that have been thoroughly and routinely explained to you. Do you really want to go there again? - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 06:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I specifically asked Fred Bauder to "state for the record that I am not violating the arbitration, and am not disallowed to edit articles by either speakers or entertainers simply because somewhere in their appearance history there was one or more appearance at the Starwood Festival or WinterStar Symposium, events run by an organization I am a volunteer with and neither receive payment from nor hire for. I also need a statement that there is no reason I can't edit an article about a Llewellyn author."

His reply, seen below, was "You are welcome to edit any article, including articles about associates, provided you cite reliable sources. It is best to not rely on personal knowledge."

I hope this finally settles this issue, and I can continue editing articles without the constant accusations that I am violating Wikipedia policies by doing so. I have tried to be careful about avoiding original research, properly citing sources (with a preference to third-party sources; however, Wikipedia policy clearly allows for non-third-party sources in some circumstances, such as author's official websites), and other Wikipedia policies & guidelines. In the future, I would ask that you and Pigman limit your objections (if you must object at all) to the actual edits I do, rather than the fact that I am the one who has done them. Rosencomet (talk) 18:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it's extremely disingenuous to say "...events run by an organization I am a volunteer with and neither receive payment from nor hire for" when you are the Executive Director of ACE. Monetary issues completely aside (money is not the only kind of COI), ACE is still an group which you are intimately involved in on a day-to-day basis and at a very high level in the organization. You have consistently either misunderstood the policies or appear unable to comply with them despite consistent, persistent and regular reference to them by myself and others. You have been on Wikipedia for almost 19 months; you are neither a new editor nor are you ignorant of policy at this point.

I would also hope that you have a better understanding of Wikipedia structure/process to know that the opinion of a single (former) Arbcom member is not some dispensation of approval from an on-high authority toward your actions and editing. I would also note that Fred's comments show he has not been particularly attentive in these matters, either during the Starwood Arbcom case or to your current activities. Fred is a longtime editor expressing his opinion to you and I would implore you to refrain from using his words as a justification or excuse for disregarding policy.

Yet again I would like to refer you to WP:V and WP:RS since it is my observation that your understanding of what constitutes an independent, third-party source remains somewhat weak.

If it seems that I object to or revise your edits relatively regularly, this is because you persist in regularly violating COI policy with your edits. I've said this a few times to you: I don't have any personal grudge against you, ACE, Starwood, et al. My primary problem has been with your continued violation of policies well beyond when you should have a basic grasp of them. Cheers, Pigman☿ 03:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of what title someone has in an organization, an unpaid volunteer is an unpaid volunteer, and the fact that you and Kathryn have so heavily edited Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism shows how little weight you give to the notion that "money is not the only kind of COI"; except in regards to me. I don't care anymore whether you say I'm being "disingenuous"; I have the same opinion about you when you say you have no personal agenda against Starwood, ACE or me. I feel you have shown you do by your obsessive tracking of my work, your nitpicking and accusations, your setting up a watchlist specifically on me, and your working with a multiple sockpuppetteer who's actions don't seem to bother you as long as they further your goals. When you, Kathryn and Mattisse [Category: Sockpuppets of Mattisse] launch a campaign within a few days to tag about two dozen articles I've written, propose five for deletion, and re-write several, then take even my comments on talk pages about it to Thatcher and two noticeboards trying to make a case that I am starting trouble again, I consider you to be the "disingenuous" one when you use terms like "If it seems that I object to or revise your edits relatively regularly" or claim "I don't have any personal grudge against you".

As an example of your personal feelings impacting this, you have made statements about Starwood concerning your opinions of its connection to drugs and sex (made under the guise of discussing whether mentioning youth programming was "promotional"), implying dangers to children, offering no factual material to back these slurs up. Kathryn agreed with your statements, and she offered to pass on "info" about the same to an editor privately, away from the sight of Wikipedia editors observing the conflicts you two have had with me. In fact, she claimed to have "a bunch of info about this", which she characterized as "the unpublished reports of multiple friends and acquaintances over the years". Does this sound like someone with no personal issues about Starwood? (All this can be found on the Starwood Talk Page [14])

In my opinion, you two conveniently at times ignore the difference between a guideline and a policy when it suits you when dealing with my editing, and ignore other editors when they point out that your editing and reversions of my work seem to indicate a problem you have with me and/or ACE/Starwood that goes beyond corrections of editing mistakes, or any real basis for objection to a source or citation. I feel that an objective observer would say that you two have made a project out of following my work, looking over my shoulder, and re-editing what I do with the bar set much higher than normal. Thatcher has theorized that it is because we both edit in a narrow field of interest (Neopaganism and the occult), but even when I edit something about a comic book character, a musician, the Red Dog Saloon, or Turkish Taffy, there you two are, re-editing my work often within hours of my edits. It has made Wikipedia a hostile environment to work in; you treat me as if I were on probation and you were my probation officer, given the job of following me around and constantly reminding me that you are watching me.

Furthermore, I consider the way you just shrugged off the statements of Fred Bauder and implied that he makes statements like this with no thought or consideration, is appallingly disrespectful to him. I also asked Newyorkbrad for a comment, who specifically said that "it might be best if Fred, who wrote the prior decisions, and who has now left the committee so he would not have the problem of prejudging a situation that might come before the committee again, or another arbitrator who was on the committee last year, were to look into the issue." As a Wikipedia editor, I need to be able to speak to someone when I feel that I am being harassed or badly treated by another editor (especially a tag-team), and when I need a clarification of my rights to edit when you and Kathryn make IMO irresponsible accusations and statements about me, such as the untruth that I ever had a "financial relationship" with Llewellyn or that there is any policy forbidding me to edit an article by a Llewellyn author. I would hope that you would not ignore his words and belittle them, with offhand comments that "he has not been particularly attentive in these matters" simply because he doesn't agree with you. I have seen no policy forbidding me to edit them, or edit the articles of people who have appeared at Starwood, as long as the edits themselves are properly supported. Fred Bauder confirms this.

I have looked over the COI info you have pointed to, and frankly I don't agree with your assessment, and I don't think you have looked over WP:Biographies of living persons very carefully either when you shoot down all self-published material or biographical information supplied by reputable publishers about their authors. Also, the fact is that while independent third-party sources are preferred, they are not the only acceptable sources for a citation in a Wikipedia article - and you know it! There are several exceptions to that guideline (and please pay attention when a WP article starts with the words "these are guidelines, not policies set in stone" at the top of the page), among which are self-published material by the subject when there is neither any reasonable doubt of the source, nor is the material controversial. When you do something like delete the word "herbalist" from the author of several books on herbs, who's bios in her books, the websites of her publishers, and two news websites include "herbalist", and she runs a company which gives advice on and sells herbs and herb books, and offer no reason to doubt that she is an herbalist (or a citation of anyone who has questioned it), I call that setting the bar too high, and I frankly think you did so because I wrote the article.

I again ask you to back off my editing. If you truly think I am violating policies, ask someone objective to keep an eye on my editing (better yet, let an arbitrator pick someone to do so; it shouldn't be your choice), or step in when someone else objects to it. I say this because I think it is clear that you and Kathryn have COI and POV issues considering any assessment of my work, and have demonstrated that your actions are both extreme and involve personal opinions of ACE and Starwood. I don't think you can judge my work fairly, nor should you set yourselves up as the "Rosencomet watchdogs" as your creation of this watchlist [15] and your actions regarding me over the last 2-3 months seem to show you have. I'm not happy about having to make statements like this, but your bias is obviously not about any actions I've made about any article you have written; I have never done so. I have asked for help from Thatcher, Fred Bauder, Newyorkbrad, and anyone else I could think of, and I don't think I can be faulted for doing so, nor should their advice be ignored. Thatcher has told you several times that editing you have complained about was not in violation of Wiki policy, I have told you many times that I have no connection to Llewellyn, but you two continue to repeat the same accusations, and when an arbitrator of the very case that you began weighs in, you seem to belittle his input. I think it's time for you and Kathryn to stop picking fights with me and setting yourselves up as my personal scolds and watchdogs. Rosencomet (talk) 20:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

ArcheDream

Another editor has added the {{prod}} template to the article ArcheDream, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 09:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Editing

You are welcome to edit any article, including articles about associates, provided you cite reliable sources. It is best to not rely on personal knowledge. Fred Talk 00:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Pamela J. Ball

I have nominated Pamela J. Ball, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pamela J. Ball. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Guy (Help!) 22:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Re [16]. Due to Wikipedia's privacy policies I can't reveal the information received via wp:OTRS. However, the deletion debate was based on Wikipedia's policies which requires sourcing and does not allow synthesizing not supported by the sources.

I have emailed both Foulsham and WW Norton asking for more information on their bio paragraphs/pages to disambiguate them, but haven't received any replies yet. If I receive any email replies I'll check for updates on the publisher's pages and put a comment at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Pamela J. Ball. -- Jeandré, 2008-03-27t08:58z

AfD nomination of Philip H. Farber

An article that you have been involved in editing, Philip H. Farber, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philip H. Farber (2nd nomination). Thank you.

A polite word...

Some of your recent talk page comments have been rather incivil and verged into the territory of personal attacks.[17] Please try to keep your temper. I'd particularly urge you to focus more on the present and current edits to articles rather than the past. I'd also gently remind you that arguing over reinstating mentions of Starwood in various articles deleted by other editors is probably not a good idea.[18] [19] [20] [21] [22] This hasn't reached the level of edit warring but your argumentative tone still concerns me as does your continuing aggressive advocacy for Starwood/ACE related info/mentions in articles. Cheers, Pigman☿ 02:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Sally Morningstar

An article that you have been involved in editing, Sally Morningstar, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sally Morningstar. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Pigman☿ 03:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't remove deletion tags

Are you "Sally Morningstar"? Don't remove deletion tags from AfD articles. It's vandalism. Qworty (talk) 18:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Halley DeVestern

An article that you have been involved in editing, Halley DeVestern, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Halley DeVestern. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Pigman☿ 06:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Dennis Chernin

An article that you have been involved in editing, Dennis Chernin, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dennis Chernin. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Pigman☿ 03:31, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Nicki Scully

An article that you have been involved in editing, Nicki Scully, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nicki Scully. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Pigman☿ 04:14, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Your comments on Talk:Nevill Drury

I thought your comments on Talk:Nevill Drury weren't entirely on topic so I'm moving the discussion here.

While of course you don't need to provide footnotes for a talk page discussion, if you make assertions about how often Drury is quoted compared to other authors, I think it appropriate that you provide some proof or source for this claim. In other words, neither I nor other editors can just take your word that this is true.

As to your accusation that I'm just targeting for deletion articles you've written or contributed to, I think my contribs show otherwise. You continue to be unclear about both notability for people and verifiable sources. I really suggest you look at those a little more closely. Cheers, Pigman☿ 18:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Attempted Vote-Stacking, Again

Jeff, I just saw your e-mail to Oberon Zell-Ravenheart which asked him to forward around your request for people to open new Wikipedia editor accounts in order to vote for your position in edit and deletion disputes. Tacky, to say the least.

I suggested to you before that your inappropriate promotion of Starwood, etc., in Wikipedia wasn't doing you any good as the audience you were reaching here already knew of it anyway. Look, to use some ad-speak, you're not reaching new eyeballs, and you're pissing off the old ones, to put it bluntly. You're going to get banned if you keep this up.

I have nothing against you. From what I've heard over the years, outside of Wikipedia you're a fairly cool guy -- but you're being self-destructive over this. I hate for good people to be their own enemy. With all respect, you need to change your behavior with regard to Wikipedia. -- Davidkevin (talk) 22:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)