Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems. Before posting: Take a look at these tips for dealing with incivility If the issue concerns a specific user, try discussing it with them on their talk page Try dispute resolution Just want an admin? Contact a recently active admin directly. Be brief and include diffs demonstrating the problem Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead go to Requests for oversight. When starting a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page; pinging is not enough. You may use {{subst:ANI-notice}} ~~~~ to do so. Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search)
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Request block for Phasemc and User talk:68.72.123.53 believed to be same user.

This user has been repeatedly deleting merge tags [1] [2] [3] on Mancow articles. The IP address and user are being reverted by many editors who regularly edit the Mancow articles, and has been left warnings by myself explaining why his edits have been reverted, and asking him to please stop. --Masterpedia

Signed to allow archiving. MaxSem 12:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Gene Nygaard

This user continues to flout established consensus on naming and indexing issues, and persistently reverts despite being told beforehand. This is particularly notable in his persistent attempts to forcibly categorise Muslims and Sikhs by their last name [4], despite media referring to them by first name. He has partaken in previous discussions regarding this [5] (see link to archived discussion, but persists in reverting them again and again - Yuvraj Singh is a particular favourite [6]. I feel that he is violating WP:POINT and is persistently disrupting the encyclopedia. A quick look at his contributions show that a large proportion of his edits are engaged in this sort of activity, and I think he needs to be blocked. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked him for 24 hours, especially as he uses malicious edit summaries accusing others and stuff like this [7]. Rama's arrow 04:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Having seen his edits and insistence on last name indexing, I endorse this block. --Ragib 04:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Endorse as well. Khoikhoi 05:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Next time - please attempt to engage Gene in the AN/I discussion prior to blocking. He's a long time and highly productive editor. --Duk 06:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

O RLY?. He has been engaged long enough. Endorse block. I think it's time for an RfArb. — Nearly Headless Nick ^{C} 09:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, maybe it's enough for some admins to say "lay off the Pakistani cricketers for now" rather than just handing out a block. Gene is a valuable and highly competent editor. And while he gets prickly sometimes, he is usually willing to discuss the topic at hand, rather than making asinine and non-productive statements like "O RLY". --Duk 16:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Yuvraj Singh includes a link to a previous discussion at WT:CRIC about this issue where Gene was the sole voice arguing for mandatory classification for last name, whereas everybody else felt that it was correct to use whatever the main usage of the term was. That archive also shows that the examples of Indian Sikhs and Muslims who are indexed by first name are noted. When the switch was made to the Yuvraj entry, there was a reminder on the talk page. After another user came and fixed up typos and grammar in late 2006, they weren't aware of the way Yuvraj is categorised, so when I switched it back to Y, I left an invisible comment [8] in late December. Since then, Gene has reverted the article four times, despite the article having a note and the talk page having a note, for a total of six reverts, whereas other articles such as Harbhajan Singh and Maninder Singh, which do not have a reminder notice, have been less frequently targeted. As for Gene's comments that my failure to revert all his edits shows that I have a rationale problem; this is is incorrect - I am categorising them by what they are referred to publicly, per the previous discussions. Robin Singh and VRV Singh are not Sikhs and are common referred to as Singh, while the others are referred to by first name. As for Shah Nylchand and any others, the same applies. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Note carefully: I was the last voice addressing the issue on that talk page, and still am a month and a half later. Neither User:Blnguyen nor any other editor has addressed the points I raised there, in my only comment there.

Note more carefully that Blnguyen misrepresented what the previous link dealt with:

1. It dealt specifically with cricketers from Pakistan, from Bangladesh, and from the United Arab Emirates—not with cricketers from India.
2. It dealt with indexing all people in the categories related to cricketers from those countries by first name, not some haphazard mish-mash with some indexed by first name and some indexed by last name as Blnguyen proposes.
3. It specifically dealt only with the cricket categories related to those countries, not to categories for cricket in other countries for people who may have played in more than one place, not for categories for people also notable as politicians or writers or whatever, not for the birth and death and living categories.
4. What Blnguyen describes here, in his "I am categorising them by what they are referred to publicly" statement, is a category determination that depends on the establishment of a factual foundation.

1. Even if that were the rule of our guidelines, it would require he establishment of that fact on an individual, case-by-case basis for each person, by proper citation to reliable sources, and not be based on WP:NOR by Blnguyen or any other editor.
2. Blnguyen has not met the burden of establishing this fact in any single case. He has not even attempted to do so.

Discussions on Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people have dealt with the guideline there ("normal order and not (for example) according to the Dutch system") by pointing out that we should not expect to readers to know whether a person is of Belgian heritage or Dutch heritage or German heritage or American heritage whatever, in order to figure out how his or her name will be sorted in categories. It is even more ludicrous to expect that readers should know a person's religion in order to know how his or her name will be sorted in categories.

I am taking this discussion to Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people Gene Nygaard 17:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Gene has made a statement on his user page. --Duk 17:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

• I'm starting to see a big problem here. On the surface there are two serious editors with a content/policy disagreement. Both revert each other and both are sure they are right. One is an admin and complains at an/i; he doesn't take responsibility for his own reverting, he doesn't pursue the dispute resolution process - he asks that the other editor be blocked. The other editor is not a admin and gets blocked before being able to participate in the discussion. Also, there seems to be some article "ownership" issues on the part of the admin. Maybe it is time for an RfArb. --Duk 19:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

• • I'm not owning any article. I am the principal author of the Harbhajan Singh and Yuvraj Singh article but there is little activity on the main body that is ever contested. It's only the indexing which is contested, and I'm not the lone ranger by any means. The DR occurred last year. It is up to Gene to try and change the consensus established last year in a discussion in which he partook. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
    • No, I am not. It is you who is trying to change that consensus. Address the points I made above: 1) That consensus dealt with cricketers from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and UAE, not those from India, 2) That consensus involved indexing ALL people in the cricket categories for those countries by first name, and 3) that consensus involved only cricket categories for those three countries. Gene Nygaard 16:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Furthermore, that supposed consensus is not mentioned at all on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket page. There is no clear statement of what it is, so that editors can follow it, and more improtantly so that it could be discussed and fine-tuned as necessary. That year-old consensus is not on the current talk page there, either. Rather, it is hidden away in at least two, perhaps three different archive sections for that talk page. Nobody has any notice whatsoever that it exists. It isn't, as far as I know, mentioned on any category page or category talk page--though I've not checked them in detail for that, just a sampling shows that it is not mentioned on Category:Pakistani Test cricketers or its talk page, it is not mentioned on Category:Bengladeshi cricketers or its talk page, it is not mentioned on Category:Cricketers by nationality or its talk page, even though that does have a detailed discussion of "in cricket terms, the United Kingdom and Great Britain do not exist". Gene Nygaard 16:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn. This is a spurious block, in my opinion. This a content dispute, and the block levied against Gene Nygaard is punitive, not preventative. I propose unblocking Gene Nygaard with the conditions that he behave civilly and that neither he nor Blnguyen make any potentially contentious edits until an RfC is opened. It's entirely unnecessary to bring in ArbCom over an editing dispute. A Train ^{take the} 20:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The block was imposed not punitively, but for prevention. The problem was that Gene was repeatedly undoing other people's edits without discussion, violating consensus on the topic. Additionally, he was incivil - accusing others of intentionally screwing up a version he didn't like - and behaving rudely to those to criticized him. All this is clearly disruptive. Gene has been dealt with fairly - the block is not lengthy either, more a slap on the wrist. If he is the productive editor Duk believes he is, he will understand his error and do something to address these complaints. Rama's arrow 21:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

You admitted on my talk page, and here as well, that it was indeed imposed punitively.

Furthermore, it was User:Blnguyen who was repeatedly undoing my edits, without discussion, violating the guidelines on the subject. The changes were intentionally added in the form of a sort key, not an oversight that involved not changing the default from the article's name. Gene Nygaard 15:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

See wiktionary:slap on the wrist. Gene Nygaard 16:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I repeat - the block was NOT punitive. However, I do not expect anyone to be so naive as to not understand WHY they were blocked and do something to rectify their errors - the "slap on the wrist" was meant that way. I hope you do realize that you made some mistakes and that you won't repeat that behavior. Don't act like a victim, because you are not - you had your "rights." You could have requested to be unblocked, in which case another admin would have reviewed the circumstances. While it is natural for anyone to see a block as a punishment, you should have some faith in Wikipedia's policies and try to not see it that way. There is no reason for you to trust me (and vice-versa) but at least have some respect for Wikipedia. Rama's arrow 18:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I did request to be unblocked; you know that, you can publish it if you like. And I was not given any opportunity to address the issues before you blocked me, was not given any notice of the discussion here.

A "slap on the wrist" is punishment. Gene Nygaard 18:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You e-mailed me and I responded on your talkpage. When I say request for unblock, I mean putting this {{unblock}} on your talkpage and asking "another admin" to review. As far as I know, this is an old issue and you've been warned and asked to discuss numerous times. My job was to stop the disruption. You can take the block as a punishment if you like - I don't care, that's your choice. I certainly did not intend it as a punishment. Rama's arrow 19:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and by the time you responded there, 18 hours of the block had passed, and it was a couple of more hours before I saw it. The instructions to contact the blocking administrator first; though they don't preclude the use of that template immediately, that is unlikely to accomplish much unless as in the case of Darwinek's earlier block of me there is clear abuse of admin privileges by the blocking admin.

If that is "as far as you know", then what were you doing blocking me? Can you show me one place where I've been "warned and asked to discuss" the sorting issue involved here, and I have failed to do so? Can you show me even one place where your buddy, your use-of-the-block-button mentor Blnguyen[9] the one whom you owe for Blnguyen's conomination for adminship,[10] has tried to discuss this sorting issue with me and I have failed to do so?

The thing is, Wikipedia:blocking policy specifically provides "Blocks . . . should not be used as a punitive measure." Far too often we see admins giving lip service to this principle, then basically ignoring it. It isn't often one comes right out and admits violating the rules, though. Gene Nygaard 16:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[11], Husond's warning is one of them, unheeded for close to a month. Other interesting diffs:[12], [13], [14], [15]. So I blocked you to return the favor of Blnguyen's co-nom? Phew! Thanks for letting me off easy - I see poor Husond was convicted of sockpuppetry by you.

Let's get something straight Gene - you have a long history of rudeness, boorish behavior and personal attacking. No admin will need hesitate in blocking you if this pattern of behavior continues unabated. Rama's arrow 22:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If you wanted to disprove your statement above that "My job was to stop the disruption" was a total falsity, and that what you intended was indeed punishment, you could not have done a much better job of it. Did any of that involve Blnguyen? No. Did any of them involve current discussions? No. Did any of them involve disruption that would need to be stopped with a block? No.

Why in the world are you bringing up a discussion with User:Hseldon10 that was resolved amicably between us two weeks ago? "Stop the disruption"? Bullshit. Don't be trying to invent post hoc justifications for your actions.

You were taking User:Blnguyen word for it on the issue of the sorting of Indian cricketers, something for which he has repeatedly misrepresented any earlier consensus. That's the main reason you blocked me, because he had asked that I be blocked so that he could revert my changes with impunity and gain an upper hand in a content dispute.

You claimed that you were blocking me because I had previously been "asked to discuss" the issues, without ever pointing out any case in which I had failed to discuss the issue when it had been brought up.

I'll even do you one better than what I said above. I challenge you to show me even one case from before your block of me in which User:Blnguyen has responded to me, when I have replied to him.

• Did he do so here at Talk:Yuvraj Singh on 16 Jan 2007 UTC? No, he did not.
• Did he do so here at User talk:Gene Nygaard on 4 Sep 2006 UTC? No, he did not.
• Did he do so above, when I pointed out that he had misrepresented the old, archived consensus? No.
• Did he do so anywhere else? Not that I can find. Can you?

I suggest you reconsider who really needs to blocked for refusing to discuss the issue. One of those non-punishment slaps on the wrist, of course. I won't hold my breath while I wait for it to happen, however.

Exactly who is disrupting Wikipedia to make a point here? An editor who goes through a category and fixed those which appear out of place? Or a different editor who reverts a series of those edits and then tries to gain the upper hand in a content dispute by gaming the system. One who runs here to ask that I be blocked, without my having reverted any of the unexplained reversions he has just made, without even telling me that he is coming here to complain,? Who does not discuss those reversions on the talk pages involved or anywhere else, but comes here and misreprents the existence a previous consensus? Gene Nygaard 03:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

User:One Night In Hackney's signature

One Night In Hackney (talk · contribs) has today started to sign his name with IRA at the end (linked to his talk page)- see [16] for example. I asked him why he was doing this- but haven't managed to get a direct response yet. I don't think it is appropiate to have the name of a terrorist organisation in an editor's signature. WP:SIG states that a signature must conform to the username policy. It clearly states that Usernames that promote or refer to violent real-world actions (e.g terrorism, organized crime) are not allowed. Astrotrain 21:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Not a terrorist organisation. Thanks. One Night In Hackney_IRA 21:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Oy. This is just what we need. One Night In Hackney, is it possible that you could be urged to voluntarily desist from this practice rather than bring about controversy and divisiveness regarding it? Newyorkbrad 21:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

He was asked about it on his talk page. He did not respond positivly. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 21:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I engaged in polite discussion with someone who has spent days trolling several pages I am involved in, then he continued it past the point of relevant discussion. For example see the discussion on the Ivor Bell talk page and the related discussion here. Please can someone actually clarify that if the author, title and ISBN number of a book have been provided that is everything that is required for an editor to verify a reference, there is no requirement that the source is available online. Are books not reliable sources any more? One Night In Hackney_IRA 21:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

This has to do with your WP:SIG how?--Isotope23 21:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Can you maybe give a response as to why you are using IRA in your signature? You must know that people will associate that acronym with a terrorist organisation that is outlawed in the United Kingdom? Astrotrain 21:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

He should keep it, why should he change it because Astrotrain doesnt like it, the Irish Republican Army is not a terrorist organisation.--Vintagekits 21:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps he could add a date, to make it clear which IRA he's talking about? Many people will think he means a modern paramilitary organisation. There are better ways to educate people about the history of the IRA.DanBeale 12:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

In reply to Isotope23, I feel it is important to put this situation into perspective. The editor in question has done nothing but troll me for several days, this is nothing but more of the same in my opinion. In reply to Astrotrain, the Irish Republican Army are not a terrorist organisation. One Night In Hackney_IRA 21:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

See Harrods#History. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 21:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

It's just needlessly divisive. Regarding the contentions of trolling etc, this should be resulting in a user RFC or an AN/I report to deal with it.--Isotope23 21:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

This isn't about whether the IRA is a terrorist group or not. This is about the arguments about the nature of the IRA that having this in a sig will inevitably cause.

Does this disrupt Wikipedia? Yes. Is there any good reason to have this in a sig? I'm having trouble seeing any, and the implicit "it's my sig, I can do what I want" don't seem to outweigh "this project is here to build an encyclopedia, please limit your actions here to things that help that goal." - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

this is laugable - whatever wikipedia says, the majority of people with the UK see the IRA as a terrorist organisation - it's presence in a signature will only cause unrest and problems - it should be removed ASAP. --Fredrick day 21:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

What's truly laughable on Wikipedia are all the self-important editors running around talking about "disruption" and "problems" when there isn't any. Where are the British citizens wailing and moaning about this user's signature? They, uh, don't exist. Like in so many other "controversies," the actual DISRUPTION is caused by mealy-mouthed editors pulling their own chains and getting into tizzies over NOTHING. MoeLarryAndJesus 21:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't imagine how this is helpful. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You trying to draw attention to yourself there MoeLarryAndJesus? You are pretty close to a WP:USERNAME block as is.--Isotope23 22:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

"British Citizens" - well I perfer english gentleman myself... --Fredrick day 21:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Whatever floats your boat Fredrick. My signature was temporarily removed (by me) at 21:42 anyway as a gesture of good faith while this is ongoing, and I have since replaced it with something else entirely so we can hopefully draw a line under this whole sorry saga. One Night In Hackney₁₉₁₆ 22:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Both the original ("IRA") and revised ("1916") are fairly clear WP:POINT violations. Wikipedia is not a forum for one's political viewpoints. In good faith, per WP:SIG (surprised that isn't policy, btw) and given that the sig suffix is likely to cause disruption, ONIH might consider getting rid of it as an easy solution. Badgerpatrol 12:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

1916 isn't "likely to cause disruption", because people won't know what he means by it unless they have prior awareness of this discussion. Lots of things happened in 1916. --Random832 16:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

No, but it is crystal clear that the only reason he's doing it is to annoy Astrotrain, which is both childish and petulant. And the IRA in Wikipedia are not a terrorist origanisation, assomebody has a bee in their bonnet, but IRA should really be redirecting to the Provisional IRA article, which is what it is most commonly denotes. And the Provos were / are terrorists. Proto ► 18:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Have to agree with Badgerpatrol that this looks like a pretty clear WP:POINT violation. --Kralizec! (talk) 06:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. When one's actions are under scrutiny, it's not usually helpful to gratuitously antagonize one's colleagues. Raymond Arritt 06:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I looked at the links ONIH provided, regarding on-going content and citation disputes with AstroTrain. While I'm not thrilled with the IRA sig, I do think that this is not a fully 'good faith' submission of a problem, but rather a way for AT to distract ONIH from the disputes. I think that the 1916 is a perfect compromise, and the two should both be focusing on content. This is pretty much a showboating case of system gaming, not unlike Astrotrain's argument that since he can't see a copy of a book to verify it, it's not a clear reference, and shouldn't count. I support the 1916 signature compromise. ThuranX 07:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I also support the 1916 sig compromise. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 02:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Harrassment

User:Worldtraveller has been harrassing me nonstop for months now, and has ramped up his attacks today with the addition of threats of further harrassment. Can someone please look into this? --InShaneee 22:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

context: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive70#A_petulant_and_totally_unjustified_block [17]. Here's an angry user feeling he was wronged. But hey, it's a 24h block from two months ago. The block was debated for longer than its duration back then, people objected it, but nobody seems to have reverted it. Have you asked Worldtraveller to stop posting to your talkpage? If you did, and if he feels he still wants to pursue the issue, you should kindly ask him to open an admin conduct RfC or look for arbitration. dab (𒁳) 22:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I've actually apologized to him (should still be on his talk page) for my error in judgement. He's actually already opened an RfC on me (which was deleted for lack of certification within the required time limit). I'm really not looking for consequences against him, I'd just like to be able to edit in peace here. --InShaneee 22:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I've simply been looking for meaningful dialogue. InShaneee has responded directly to my many questions exactly once. But he's found the time and energy to accuse me of ridiculous things like harassment and personal attacks on plenty of other forums. Frankly I think an administrator who first of all either didn't understand or decided to ignore the blocking policy (I've been trying to find out which), and then persistently ignores inquiries regarding his contra-policy block, should not be an administrator at all. If InShaneee seriously thinks that being held accountable for administrative actions is threatening, then that's another reason why he is a very poor administrator. Why did he ignore my questions on his talk page weeks and weeks ago? Why is he not prepared to discuss his administrative actions? Worldtraveller 22:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we let bygones be bygones? Certainly, we want all editors (not just admins) to be accountable for what they do. But, bringing up issues from the past may not be very helpful. Friday (talk) 22:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Friday, I totally disagree about the bygones in this case. Utterly. It's important to be ready to criticize admin actions, and it's hardly WT's fault that time has gone by while Inshaneee has stonewalled. Is that the way to get away with inappropriate admin actions now? InShaneee, WT's actions don't IMO constitute harassment at all. For myself I would actually prefer be forewarned if somebody was going to propose my deadminship, rather than have it descend from a clear sky, but YMMV. If you had been more willing to reply, which I don't see how an admin can justify not doing, WT would hardly have nagged—"harassed"—you to reply. WT has reasonable cause for what he's doing. I'm glad to see, however, that you're not accusing WT of personal attacks for criticizing your admin actions. And before somebody does start talking about personal attacks and warning WT on his page (as several people did last time WT used the phrase "terrible administrator"), I'd like to stress that there's nothing personal about criticizing somebody's use of admin tools, even in strong terms. Certainly not if they're willing to back up the criticism with facts, as WT has amply done. Admins may be freely criticized for their admin actions. Bishonen | talk 23:02, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

I think HighinBC already responded to that better than I could. I know you're not a fan of mine, Bish, and have called for my DeSysOping more than once, but the tone here, as well as the manner in which this 'criticism' is being conducted, is what I take offense with. --InShaneee 23:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

What? Me? I thought you and I got on like a house on fire, the times we've worked together (and that made me feel really bad about posting the above, but I thought it the right thing to do). Me call for your de-sysopping? You must be thinking of someone else. Bishonen | talk 23:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

...Shoot, I may be. I apologize. I've got about a good a memory for Usernames as I do for...whatever it was I was about to compare that to. My mistake :). I reiterate, though, my problem with his tone and manner. I apologized to him because I fully accept that I was in the wrong with him, but I don't know how else I can go about resolving this than that, especially considering the length of time since this happened. --InShaneee 23:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

(deindenting) InShaneee, what exactly is your problem with my tone? And how did my tone prevent you taking part in the discussion of your block that several of your fellow administrators took part in here? The problem I have with you is that you persistently and rudely ignore questions about your use of administrative tools. What I asked for, the day after I got blocked, was an explanation from you of how your block squared with policy. What I got, six weeks later, was a vague reply which gave no evidence that you understood blocking policy, or knew that your actions fell way outside it. Your failure to discuss things with your fellow administrators when you were criticised was inexcusable, and your repeated ignoring of my questions on your talk page is extremely poor conduct for an administrator.

And by the way, HighinBC basically entirely misunderstood the situation and what I was saying. Worldtraveller 23:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, if six weeks (sounds like more) has already passed, you need to forget about it. If you want to contest his block of over a month or so ago then go to RFAr and send them a case worth looking at than complaining at AN/I. — Moe 23:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you've actually read the start of this thread; I didn't start this discussion. Worldtraveller 23:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't to me [18] — Moe 03:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Your post doesn't make sense. You seemed to be saying I shouldn't have raised this issue here, when I didn't. If you read the first post in the thread, you'll see that. Worldtraveller 11:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a battleground. There was a disagreement about a block. InShaneee apologized. Frankly, that should be the end of the story. Apology not accepted? Ok, if really necessary an RFC could be filed... which happened and then failed due to lack of endorsement. Worldtraveller, you say you didn't start this thread... but that obviously is not the issue. You did write this. You continue to pick at this incident long after the fact. Would it be nice if InShaneee had given an explanation and/or apology that you could accept and move on from? Sure... but he isn't required to do that. Sometimes people won't accept any explanation. Giving an apology and saying 'my bad' ought to have been enough. Explaining how the mistake was made ought to have been enough. Continuing to pursue the matter for more than a month despite that is harassment. Calling someone a terrible administrator for not wanting to talk to you is harassment. Saying you will do everything you can to get someone de-sysoped is harassment. You have asked for more explanation than the paragraph InShaneee provided. He has declined to give it. You are free to consider this rude and even to make the case to others that it is rude... once. However, you are not free to continue harping on and threatening him about it day in and day out for a month. Threats, insults, continual reference to a past incident, turning Wikipedia into a battleground... it's obvious harassment and it needs to stop. Note, I haven't looked into the original block... it sounds like an overly aggressive application of BLP, which happens to be something I have been arguing against vigorously... but it isn't relevant. No matter how bad the initial action may (or may not) have been, we have procedures for dealing with disagreements that do not involve harassing, insulting, or threatening the person. Follow those procedures or you will be blocked. --CBD 13:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It would certainly help if you had looked into the original block, before commenting on the fallout from it. It had nothing to do with WP:BLP. I can hardly believe you are threatening me with blocking for trying fruitlessly to simply start a dialogue. Worldtraveller 15:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yet again, InShaneee seems to be ignoring the questions about his conduct. If trying to get answers about what appears to be violations of policy is harassment, then I will keep on harassing. The only reason I have continued pursuing this "long after the fact" is that InShaneee completely refused to discuss it at all for six weeks. That's shocking for an administrator, and I am not prepared to let misuse of administrative tools be glossed over like that. InShaneee owes everyone an explanation, not just me, and his refusal to listen to criticism is evidence that he's really not a very good administrator at all. Worldtraveller 09:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You're beating a dead horse, you can quit with your harrassment anytime you like. — Moe 17:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Is that really supposed to be helpful input? Worldtraveller 17:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If you don't get blocked and you stop persisting that InShaneee be desysopped, than I have done what the above statement was supposed to do. — Moe 17:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps that advice is helpful. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 17:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

And now CBD has blocked Worldtraveller for 24 hours for "Continued harassment of another user despite strong warnings. We have procedures for resolving disputes. Harassment and threats aren't part of them." And then the block was extended, by HighInBC because Worldtraveller protested at the first block.

I see no harassment or threats. What I see is a seriously annoyed user being ignored by an admin who blocked him. The half-hearted "apology" that was offered is clearly not sufficient as an explanation - certainly not sufficient for Worldtraveller. (I was looking for his original complaint on Inshanee's talk page or its archive, and see that they were removed with the comment "rv troll" . A great example of the failure to establish the dialogue that Worldtraveller has been seeking.)

Here we have an almost perfect example of how not to behave as an admin - repeatedly revert an anon without discussing, then block the anon, then refuse to discuss. Apparently, if you refuse to discuss for long enough, you get away with it. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am very much afraid that Worldtraveller has now gotten exactly what he was seeking. Over two months ago he stated his intent to leave Wikipedia and, like so many before him, found that he couldn't force himself to stay away. Instead, an editor who was once almost universally lauded for his civility and his ability to work on controversial articles without revert-warring seems to have decided to instigate two separate revert wars, insult multiple editors (including myself) and quite deliberately set out to harass an admin. Why did he behave in such an uncharacteristic way? Could it be that having found himself unable to jump, he sought to antagonize the community into giving him a push? Some people seem to prefer to leave Wikipedia as a martyr rather than as a quitter. — MediaMangler 12:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Worldtraveller blocked? Can't believe it.

In what sense does (this this [19] or this) constitute harassment? Bloody hell. edward (buckner) 12:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Amazing. Why is an editor with hundreds of fine articles behind him, a fine stylist and clear thinker to boot, being blocked for some harmless (and apparently well deserved) comments about someone who spends most of his time writing trivial crap like this. There really is something very wrong here. Is this some kind of revenge for his (entirely constructive and accurate in my view) criticisms of Wikipedia? edward (buckner) 13:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with the opinion that this block is outrageously unjustified. WorldTraveller should probably have dropped the issue and gone on with something else, but that's not a blockable offence; I can see no sign of the supposed harrassment and threats — could someone provide diffs? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 13:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure he should have dropped the issue and gone on with something else. You can follow the original thread on a copy I made here. The issue over the original block in January is that an administrator abused his position, contravened policy, and gave a dishonest reason for a block designed to win the upper hand in a content dispute. WT then got irritated by the fact that an admin who clearly knew his actions are being questioned refused to offer any kind of explanation, or to discuss. The second block was simply for so-called 'harrassment' (see below). edward (buckner) 14:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

ALoan said "And then the block was extended, by HighInBC because Worldtraveller protested at the first block." Please be more accurate, it was for calling me and a few other admins fuckwits while asking to be unblocked that I gave extended the block. That is standard when people are abusive while asking to be unblocked. He is welcome back afterwards. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 14:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Personal attack removed[20]. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You might want to consider that disparaging the contributions of another user, calling people fuckwits, and otherwise following Worldtraveller in ignoring Wikipedia's standards of civil behaviour only hurts your position. As it has his. --CBD 15:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The original block seemed justified to me, only 24 hours after a month of not letting it drop. I don't think it is appropriate to make demands of another editor day after day for that long, nobody owes you a response. If that block is overtured, I ask that the 24 hours extension for personal attack stays, I have personally warned him in the past about insults, and so have others. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 14:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

In what sense 'a month of not letting it drop'. Given the concern was a matter of principle and entirely justified, and given that 'Inshanee' refused to discuss the matter and was generally high-handed about it, why should he not continue. Here, for the record, are the postings that WT made to Inshane's talk page:

• 3 March 2007
• 3 March 2007
• 3 March 2007
• 28 February 2007
• 23 February 2007
• 19 February 2007
• 14 February 2007 (ignore first section – another user)
• 13 February 2007

edward (buckner) 14:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

People have said that there is no evidence of threats or harassment here. I consider, "Whatever I can do to get your administrative tools taken away from you, I will do.", to be an incontrovertible example of both. Tell me I'm wrong. Worldtraveller has repeatedly been told to follow dispute resolution procedures. Insulting people is not part of dispute resolution. Declaring a mission to get someone de-sysoped is not part of dispute resolution. Continuing to badger someone on their talk page for a month after they have apologized and asked to be left alone is not part of dispute resolution. The relative merits of the contributions of 'user A' vs 'user B' are irrelevant to whether there is harassment or not. The relative merits of the initial complaint vs the apology and explanation to it are irrelevant to whether there is harassment or not. All that is relevant is whether Worldtraveller has continued to pursue a campaign of insulting and badgering InShaneee rather than following dispute resolution procedures. He has. He was repeatedly warned not to do so. He ignored those warnings and continued ([21] [22] [23]). Ergo, he was blocked.

I'm all for confronting mistakes and/or bad acts by admins, but we have procedures for doing so that don't include hounding them after they have apologized and expressed a desire to be left alone. If Worldtraveller can't accept the explanation he got from InShaneee his next step would be to request mediation, RFC, or RFAr... not continue to badger InShaneee indefinitely. --CBD 14:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

(ec)The confusion seems to result from the belief the anybody deserves and answer from another, and has the right to demand it day after day even though he has been told it is disruptive. The fact is anyone has the right to ignore another user, and nobody is obligated to respond to the demands of another. In this diff[24] he declares his intent to continue harassing, I am satisfied with the preventative nature of this block. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Bollocks. Given the issue, he should have got some sort of reply. Read the postings. edward (buckner) 15:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

He was told the correct action was to file an RFC or RFAR, but he ignored that advice and continued harassing. Dbuckner please be civil. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Where was he told this? edward (buckner) 15:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

In this very thread. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

But this very thread started on 1 March, did it not? And one of the comments that supposedly constituted 'harrassment' was made by WT on this thread. And btw please don't leave v. unpleasant and harrassing message on my talk page, thank you very much. Unbelievable. edward (buckner) 15:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

No, if you insult other editors I will go to your talk page and leave a no personal attack warning. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't do it. Read carefully. I said the editors in question seem to be behaving like f--wits. As indeed they do. Incredibly so. edward (buckner) 15:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

That is still a personal attack. You cannot just stick "seems to me" onto an insult and sling away, that does not justify abusive language. I would not try to dance on the line of personal attacks. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

Let's suppose for a moment that I was wrong. People can disagree on when something crosses the line into 'harassment'. What if repeatedly badgering someone about a past incident when they have indicated a desire to be left alone is NOT harassment? Even were that the case, I had clearly said ([25]) that I believed it was... and that if WT continued doing it rather than following WP:DR he would be blocked. And thus, when he then said that if this was harassment, "then I will keep on harassing", he knew he was going to get blocked. A reasonable response to my statement that further harassment of this sort would result in a block would be to explain why refusing to follow dispute resolution procedures and instead continue hounding the target for answers is NOT harassment. Worldtraveller didn't do that (go figure). He said he was going to continue doing the things he knew I considered to be harassment. Even assuming I'm wrong about that, Worldtraveller clearly was being deliberately disruptive and doing precisely what he knew would result in himself being blocked. The subsequent 'shock' about this is thus highly disingenuous. Worldtraveller is certainly capable of 'doing the math' on 'if you continue to harass you will be blocked' + "I will keep on harassing" = block. So even if he wasn't, by some definition, harassing InShaneee Worldtraveller's behaviour was still a very bad idea. Rather than discuss the matter reasonably he insisted on doing the thing he had to know would get him blocked. And then using that inevitably as an excuse for 'shock', 'disgust', and personal attacks. However, I don't believe I was at all wrong about this being harassment. WT's inability to explain why he won't go to DR, his declaration of a vendetta to get InShaneee de-sysoped rather than to address the problem, and his deliberately provocative actions and 'outrage' at the inevitable block seem proof enough of bad action on his part. --CBD 15:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Basically if the community tells you something is disruptive, and you keep doing it, then you are disrupting the community. It was only a 24 hour block, and I think that it was done to prevent disruption. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 15:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've read the entire thread on this, including all the "harassing" posts to InShanee's talk page and it's making me feel quite ill. WT has every right to request a response from any user, and is absolutely justified in expecting an admin to respond to him about that admin's actions (that affected him). This is NOT harassment, nor disruptive, and is in fact the appropriate course of action recommended at WP:DR. IMO, CBD's warning was absurd and deserved to be ignored. CBD's analysis of this (above) that WT was effectively asking to be blocked is also ridiculous. Continuing doing the things he knew I considered to be harassment doesn't mean "please block me", but "you're wrong, this is not harassment". Rather than wheel war about this, I ask CBD to please reconsider this block. I'd tend to forgive the very heated comment resulting in the extension of the block as well. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You are correct that WT "has every right to request a response from any user, and is absolutely justified in expecting an admin to respond to him"... but that is all totally irrelevant, because it already happened. WT asked. InShaneee responded. Indeed, InShaneee said he was mistaken, apologized, and explained where he went wrong. I hope that everyone agrees that somewhere between asking once for an explanation and some bizarre extreme of responding to every comment the person makes with demands for a response (even after one is given), threats, insults, et cetera such communication passes from 'reasonable expectation' to 'blatant harassment'. Obviously, this situation falls somewhere between those two frames of reference. I believed that it had clearly crossed over into harassment and said so. Several other people agreed. Frankly, I find the it incomprehensible that people would claim things like, "You're clearly just a witless moron. How you became an admin I cannot begin to understand" and "Whatever I can do to get your administrative tools taken away from you, I will do", are NOT harassment. As I've said, opinions on where the line is drawn apparently differ... but alot of reasonable people agree with my view that WT crossed it a good ways back. I warned him to stop or be blocked, he refused with a clear intent to continue escalating towards that bizarre extreme, so he is blocked. As to the question of unblocking... it has become irrelevant. WT scrambled his own password. Whether the block were removed now or extended to indefinite there would be no difference... he can't log in to that account any more. Worldtraveller made his own bed... every step of the way and very deliberately. --CBD 17:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

And what do you think about the 24 hours I added for personal attacks[26]? Do you also think that behavior is acceptable? I would like to point of that even a reasonable request can be harassment if you make it enough times. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 17:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Worldtraveller has already decided to leave, even though I do hope he comes back. His essay, WP:FAIL was very thought-provoking and it's a shame that he is leaving. However, let sleeping dogs lie for the meantime. I don't see the point of this continued discussion as, after reading all this, both sides did not act especially civil so nobody should be pointing fingers. MetsFan76 17:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

This is outrageous. Yet another established user blocked for defiance. I have been arguing on this board for a long time for the propriety of having patience with a user under a block; putting up with what they say; turning a blind eye even to attacks from them; even from pure vandals. Everybody seems to agree when I say stuff like that; and yet nobody seems ready to unblock such an egregious block of an established user—a very good user—as Worldtraveller? In view of the comments above, showing that there is nothing approaching consensus, or approval, for any of these blocks—the original, or the extension—I'm going to unblock. I would ask ask the original blockers to do it; but I see they have already ignored such requests, so I'll just do it myself. Bishonen | talk 17:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

PS; Ah, I see Geogre already did. Bishonen | talk 17:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Bishonen, it's admins such as yourself that give me faith in Wikipedia. It is very encouraging to see someone stand up for what is right. CBD, you say it's irrelevant now that WT was blocked. That is unfortunate as he was an excellent editor and while he may have been somewhat uncivil, it is clear that he is not all to blame for this fiasco. MetsFan76 17:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You apparently missed the part about where he scrambled his password and can't log in whether blocked or not. As to my block being unjustified. No, no it wasn't. You call someone a "witless moron", threaten them, continue to harangue them after being asked to stop... normally you get blocked on the spot. Instead, I just warned him that I would block if he didn't stop and pointed him towards DR... he responded with a declaration that he would "keep on harassing", carried out that declaration, and I blocked as I had said I would. I find people excusing his egregiously bad behaviour as sickening as some have declared my block of him for it to be. If we are to allow users to openly declare and carry out campaigns of harassment against each other collaboration is dead. WT had made such declarations. He had to be told that it was not allowed and then blocked when he refused to heed that warning. --CBD 18:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

First off, I didn't "miss" anything. I have been following this since WT wrote WP:FAIL. He has been hounded by other editors who disagreed with him since. Enough so that he finally snapped. Also, I am not "excusing" his behavior. I found it to be in poor taste, however, I don't necessarily blame him. Furthermore, WT has left Wikipedia. He has dropped the issue. Isn't it time that you follow his example? If it is "irrelevant," then act like it is so. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all. MetsFan76 18:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was responding to Bishonen... his rush to unblock 'missed' the fact that doing so was irrelevant since WT can't use that account now anyway. As to the rest, if you agree that his behaviour was "in poor taste"... what's the problem? I asked him to stop behaving badly. He refused. I blocked him. Should I have allowed him to continue behaving badly? Forever? At what point DO we block for bad behaviour? I thought that "witless moron" and the rest of it was a pretty good point at which to say, 'stop or else'. Should I have waited for death threats? Finally, on 'dropping the issue'... neither WT nor various others here have 'dropped' their objection to the block. They've said various things about it which seem to me clearly false (like, WT wasn't attacking / did not make threats / et cetera)... I'm correcting those mis-statements and explaining my position. If people want to move on that's fine with me, but it certainly does not seem to be the case. Thus far, people have seemed to want to claim that WT did nothing wrong. And that just isn't true. --CBD 18:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Unblocks

I unblocked. I did so because HighinBC was very much engaged in a polemic over the issue, and I felt that it was incorrect for him to block. Additionally, I felt that there was a preponderence of opinion here that a block, especially given the controversy, would be antagonistic. That's why I unblocked. It just seemed to be a hasty and incorrect action to perform a block. The angrier you are, the less you should reach for the button. Geogre 17:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I certainly was not, what are you talking about? ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 17:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I increased the block for personal attacks "fuckwits like CBDunkerson, HighinBC and InShaneee"[27], not sure what polemics you are referring to, but that block was very justified, and I think your unblock is inappropriate. Even if you undid the first 24 hours for harassment the 24 hours I gave for personal attacks is clearly justified. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 18:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems clear to me that people are acting without having all the facts. Geogre and Bishonen rushing to unblock... because they are apparently unaware of the fact that Worldtraveller scrambled his own password and can't log in whether unblocked or not. Geogre making false claims in his unblock summary about 'involved admins' not making judgments... I wasn't involved until I made my judgment. Claims that there is no cause for block here despite statements like "witless moron", "fuckwits", and "Whatever I can do to get your administrative tools taken away from you, I will do" coming from WT. You're wrong here. He was blatantly violating civility policy and refusing to stop or pursue a less disruptive means of resolving the dispute. --CBD 18:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

If it's clear to you that I offered to unblock without being aware that WT had scrambled his password, you're in a fog. Please consider what a block is, and what it does. How it affects users. It's not a mere enforced wikibreak, it's a slap in the face. It's a shock. It's extremely humiliating for established, productive users. It's permanent dirt in your log. Unblocking is a gesture worth making regardless of whether the person can log in or not. Please give your imagination a little more exercise, CBD. Bishonen | talk 18:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

But there was the definite appearance of f---wittedness. In England, at least, that's a gentle rebuke for dim-witted behaviour or cluelessness. Look what these guys did. WT is one of the best editors in the Wiki. I think he gets in the top ten for featured articles. We should be doing everything we can to encourage editors like this to stay. By contrast, the one called Inshane specialises in inane puerile drivel of this sort, and contributes nothing at all to Wikipedia. And he engages in this highly arbitrary action against a greatly respected editor, who naturally reacts rather badly. He leaves about messages over a 1 month period, generally courteous and reasonable-minded, and the one called Shane rudely refuses to reply. After leaving two more messages, he gets blocked. Now that's really, well, I won't say the word. edward (buckner) 18:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am trying to take a wikibreak now, I have interrupted it to deal with this accusation of sorts. I will look in on this later, but I will leave you folks with the assurances that my limited dealings with this person weeks ago have no bearing on the personal attack block I did, and I think it is a out of line to undo a block that was given for clear violation of the WP:NPA policy. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 18:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPA has no penalties. There is no such thing as "a personal attack block". If there was, it goes without saying that it would be inappropriate to block for an attack against yourself ("fuckwits like CBDunkerson, HighinBC and InShaneee"). This is a bad day for trigger-happy admins. Bishonen | talk 18:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Are you saying that a user who has had several warnings about civility and personal attacks cannot be blocked for it? That is nonsense, this user was warned over and over to stop personal attacks, it is a blockable offense to ignore policy after several warnings. Do you really think that my name being included in the insult clouded my judgment so much that I saw an insult where there was none? That is a clear insult. The block was justified, it was not due to any sort of bias, and I resent the implication. NPA has no proscribed penalties, but it is subject to blocking. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 18:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[After edit conflicts]

I have yet to see the diffs that show that WT was involved in harrassment; all that has been shown is that, having been the subject of an unfair and unjustified block, he pursued the question with the blocking admin, hoping for justice. Unfortunately he found that the blocking admin continued to behave badly by refusing to respond to his requests for explanation, and that certain other admins have no more notion of justice than does a pile of bricks. He lost his temper in the face of that (being human), and said things that doubtless he shouldn't have, however true they were. In other words he was hounded into making a mistake, and was then blocked for it by the people who were hounding him. How very edifying. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 18:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yay, tell it like it is, Mel. edward (buckner) 18:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Mel, that's a grossly untrue representation of the situation:

1. "said things that doubtless he shouldn't have, however true they were" - So you are endorsing as true his claim that InShaneee is a "witless moron"? If so, at this time I need to warn you about our WP:NPA policy.
2. "I have yet to see the diffs that show that WT was involved in harrassment" - If you don't consider the numerous diffs supplied to be proof then we differ on the meaning of harassment... but then you apparently think the "witless moron" comment was ok.
3. "Unfortunately he found that the blocking admin continued to behave badly by refusing to respond to his requests for explanation" - A false accusation. InShanee DID respond.
4. "In other words he was hounded into making a mistake, and was then blocked for it by the people who were hounding him." - He was blocked by me. My 'hounding' of him consisted of a single message telling him to stop harassing InShaneee and follow DR or he would be blocked. I did not hound him. Your implication that I both orchestrated (through continual hounding) and executed his block is a completely unjustified accusation.

What I'm seeing is alot of people who like Worldtraveller coming to his defense, but ignoring (or just not looking into) the fact that what he was doing WAS wrong. Unless you all really are in favor of calling people "witless moron" and publicly declaring vendettas. I mean, COME ON. He outright said that he was going to do everything in his power to get InShaneee. That's harassment. By any definition of the word. There is a point at which we have to say, "Stop". I believe he crossed it. And when I DID say "Stop", he refused. --CBD 18:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, if I am acting like a moron, I would want someone to tell me. That's the only way I will learn from my mistakes and grow as an editor. Is calling someone a "witless moron" harsh? Sure. I would have said it differently but if WT thought InShaneee was acting poorly, he had every right to tell him so. He just chose his words wrong. MetsFan76 19:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Disagreeing with your actions and calling you names are different. That is why we even have guidelines on civility and personal attacks. If I felt that you acting in a moronic fashion, the proper route is for me to tell you that I didn't agree with your course...it is not to call you a witless moron. IrishGuy ^talk 19:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, isn't that what I just said? MetsFan76 19:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

If that is what you were saying, then I must have interpreted it incorrectly. My apoligies. To me, it seemed as if you were excusing his actions by saying that at most he chose his words poorly. I think it was an outright personal attack and I'm not sure why so many others are excusing it. IrishGuy ^talk 19:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

No worries. That's what I was saying. My only issue is that people are only looking at WT actions. Personally, the entire issue is done now as WT, unfortunately, left. The problem now is that HighinBC and CBD are continuing to debate this. If it's over, then let it go. MetsFan76 19:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. This is kicking a dead horse. IrishGuy ^talk 19:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, folks. I went to lunch. I wasn't trying to fail to respond to a question <ahem>. Ok, going through the thread above, I felt that HighinBC was getting very agitated about the issue. To me, that made him interested. I regard blocks as best done rarely and done by the disinterested. I understand how hard that can be. After all, having an opinion should be allowed. Obviously, I have my own. As for what that opinion is, it's that we simply should not block for NPA except, as the policy says, "extreme cases." Continually asking a question isn't an extreme case, and the question wasn't asked continually. Being high tempered when treated high handedly is also not an occasion for a block. I've had Ideogram, for example, pester me -- in my view -- for a long time, and I've had people come to my user talk page to tell me that they would do all they could to get me demoted. I did not block, and I am not a paragon of virtue. Rather, I combined my view with what I took as the majority view here and added those to the fact that I considered HighinBC too involved to perform the unblock. No meanness intended. Geogre 20:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am baffled as to what irritation, or even involvement you are talking about. My involvement with this user is limited to simply warnings that his actions could very well lead to a block. I have no personal investment in whatever the debate about that month old block is. I don't even know what all that is about. I saw a user being warned not to be disruptive and threatening to continue, another admin blocked, I endorsed that block. To say I am to involved in a situation because I gave warnings is ridiculous. My block for personal attacks followed several warnings spanning weeks.

I don't mind being on the wrong side of consensus with an unblock review, so be it. Maybe the block for harassment was unjustified, maybe it was not. But my 24 hours block for personal attacks is an open and shut case, I ask that you return it by setting the block time to 19:35, March 4, 2007, 24 hours after the original block. I would do it myself, but that would be wheel warring. If you don't want to do this, then please be considerably more specific about my conflict of interest, or over involvement, or whatever it is that you think invalidated my block. Diffs would be nice. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 20:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Timeline

As a public service, here's a rough timeline of events. For people unfamiliar with the case to better judge the merits of the various claims of who failed to do what when. May be incomplete, I haven't followed the events too closely myself.

• 1st RfC about InShaneee filed, independent issue: 1 November
• First attempted closure of RfC: 29 December
• Contentious block of Worldtraveller by InShaneee 2 January
• First complaint by Worldtraveller on ANI: 3 January
• InShaneee's only immediate response after being criticised by several admins on the noticeboard: "governing the lesser Wikipedians"
• Second attempt at closing first RfC: 10 January [28]
• Attempt at discussion by Worldtraveller on InShaneee's talk. Meeting with silence. Repeated attempts over several weeks, with WT becoming increasingly aggressive at InShaneee's failure to respond, finally leading to downright insults. Escalating from 3 January to 12 February
• Renewed attempt at closing first RfC: 12 February
• 2nd RfC filed by Worldtraveller: 14 February
• InShaneee apologising to WT: 19 February. WT not satisfied with the apology, keeps criticising InShaneee harshly
• First complaint by InShaneee on ANI: 19 February [29]
• Second complaint by InShaneee on AN: 1 March

Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the summary. As it happens, I saw that debate at the time but didn't pay attention to who the parties were and didn't realize it was connected. My brief synopsis would be; InShaneee was wrong two months ago, Worldtraveller is wrong now. Seriously, a two month (not one as I thought) vendetta? Not harassment? How can anyone seriously claim that continual haranguing of another user for two months is something we should encourage. We have dispute resolution procedures precisely to prevent that sort of long term inter-personal conflict. --CBD 19:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Time shouldn't be a factor here. What's wrong is wrong. There's no statute of limitations here. InShaneee was wrong then, WT is wrong now. Whatever the case, in the past two months, they both acted poorly. MetsFan76 19:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, except of course that the longer harassment goes on the bigger a problem it is. You say Worldtraveller acted poorly. I said that yesterday and told him to stop. He refused so I blocked him. Unless you think I should have allowed him to continue acting poorly, at this point I'm not really sure what it is about my action that you dispute. --CBD 19:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

My problem with your actions is that you are basically the only now making an issue about this. The horse is dead, stop kicking it. MetsFan76 19:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Let me get this straight - he was originally blocked for "harassment" because he kept trying to enter into a dialogue about the InShaneee's block in January, rather than either letting it go or escalating the dispute resolution? And then his block was doubled because (a) he was called someone a "witless moron" over a month ago (and 3 weeks after he first asked for an explanation) and (b) he lashed out when smacked with the first block? I am so cross I can barely type. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hitting our selves on the head with a hammer

Worldtraveller did nothing to merit a block - he was demanding accountability of an admin who blew him off for weeks. His actions are a good thing. Admins have a duty to answer for themselves when they make blocks in error. Is this is obvious to everyone, or do we need another 1000 words of official policy.

Blocking our best editors for questionable reasons is rather like hitting ourselves on the head with a hammer to cure a headache. --Duk 19:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ohhh... "His actions were a good thing". Of course... we should call everyone "witless moron" and "fuckwit". Because that'll be beneficial to the encyclopedia. How could I have missed it? :]

Seeking accountability is a good thing... if done through the proper dispute resolution procedures. Worldtraveller was urged to do so. He refused and insisted on attacks, threats, and harassment instead. That was not a good thing and it absolutely was deserving of a block. Yes, InShaneee's block was wrong. However, that does not give Worldtraveller license to behave as badly as he likes for as long as he likes. Wikipedia will be better off when people realize that BOTH 'executive' and 'personal' accountability are important. --CBD 19:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

CBD, do you think you are acting civil right now? The people who this really affects (WT and InShaneee) have not said a word for quite some time (unless I missed something). Why don't you just drop it? There is no need for you to defend your actions. MetsFan76 19:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

There isn't? Oh, my mistake. I thought people were calling me a "fuckwit", "twit", "ignoramus", who made an "outrageously unjustified", "absurd", "ridiculous", "trigger-happy" block. Good to know that there is 'no need to defend my actions'. I'd somehow gotten a different impression. :]

Perhaps some of these other people could stop calling me names and insulting me to help show how this is a dropped matter that I don't need to clarify my position on? Because... you know if I don't respond apparently that would make me a "terrible administrator" and a "witless moron". --CBD 19:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

"Sticks and stones......" MetsFan76 19:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

And now HighInBC has blocked one of the people defending WT... This is getting sillier and sillier, more and more hysterical — and less and less pleasant. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Block of User:Dbuckner

I see that HighInBC has now also blocked Dbuckner for 24 hours for personal attacks made in the above thread and continuing on Dbuckner's userpage. The user has argued against the block but has not posted an unblock request to date, and has instead e-mailed the blocking administrator. I find much of the language of Dbuckner's comments to be highly unnecessary, but am troubled by the concept of blocking a serious content contributor based in part on comments made in response to an administrator's comments on the user's own userpage. I post the matter here for comment. Newyorkbrad 23:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I see HighInBC has opened a separate thread at the bottom of this page. I'll copy this there so discussion can be in one place. Newyorkbrad 23:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks on a user talk page

Hi. I've tried to ask ask User:Curiouscdngeorge to remove the personal attacks on Ronbo76 on his talk page, without success. The guy misspells Ronbo's name in a dozen demeaning ways and makes section headers that look like Ronbo wrote it. I think the section should go, and I'm not sure what else to do besides RFC. Comments? Xiner (talk, email) 00:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Persistent personal attacks are a blockable offense, but I don't care for that. All I want is that section be removed. Xiner (talk, email) 04:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If there's a more appropriate forum for this type of problem, please let me know. Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 04:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

While going over a front page article, I came across this account: User talk:Curious2george. Please, can someone take a look at this issue? It'll only take a minute. Just scroll to the bottom of talk page. Thanks in advance. Xiner (talk, email) 01:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Suspicious creation of new user accounts -- vandalism? Sockpuppetry?

I routinely check the New User logs, and I noticed tonight one user, MurrMan (talk) (contribs) created several new Users with similar names: MurrMan5, MurrMan6, and MurrMan7. In addition, just prior to the creation of these users, MurrMan2, MurrMan3 and MurrMan4 were created. All these accounts were created between 02:49 and 02:53 on March 2, 2007 (UTC). I have seen several recent incidents where similarly named accounts were socks of other users. As of now, the only account with a warning is MurrMan, with a warning from Feb 27 [30] noting that several edits by this person look like other edits from an anonymous user. I'd bring this up at WP:SSP, but there doesn't yet seem to be any active sockpuppetry, just the tools in place to do this. Please let me know if this is not the correct forum for this. Regards, Flyguy649^talk_contribs 03:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Something fishy, though hard to say if it's intended to be sneaky sockpuppetry. I can't imagine MurrMan7 denying any connection to MurrMen 1-6 :) —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-03-02 04:24Z

Since having multiple accounts is not a crime, is there a template we can slap on these pages so that if any one account starts vandalizing, people who warn him will know to post the warning on the main account's page? Xiner (talk, email) 04:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Can't we put put {{sock|MurrMan}} on them and then create Category:Suspected sockpuppets of MurrMan ? Not too bitey but makes it easy to watch them (or warn if one starts blanking sock tags on the others). —Dgies^t c 06:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Add MurrMan8 (talk · contribs) to that list - just created a few minutes ago. Natalie 02:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Spoke too soon - MurrMan8 has also created MurrMan9 (talk · contribs), MurrMan10 (talk · contribs), MurrMan11 (talk · contribs), MurrMan12 (talk · contribs), and MurrMan13 (talk · contribs) within that last 10 minutes. Natalie 02:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I just blocked all of them. Such a massive line of alternate accounts is disruptive.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 02:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Right on. Natalie 03:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks everyone. It did seem a little too much. Regards, Flyguy649^talk_contribs 13:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Image Anencephaly_front.jpg on top of page

Why did I see multiple copies of Anencephaly_front.jpg on the top of the page many many times? I can't see where to remove it, but when I previewed this comment it was gone, so that is very strange. Any ideas? -- Whereizben - Chat with me 15:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

They were in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentsHeader.Geni 15:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Geni beat me to it by seconds! Anyway, I blocked the IP ... apparently it's Willy on Wheels, a banned user with whom I'm not familiar. The IP had just come off a one-week block, so I slapped another one-week block on it, but perhaps that address needs to be blocked for a much longer term? | Mr. Darcy talk 15:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it's Willy, not the right MO and we've not seen that one for a while anyway as far as I know. Guy (Help!) 17:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Admins unfamiliar with WoW?... jeepers, has it really been that long? --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 16:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Any reason not to have Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentsHeader fully protected? ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 17:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope. I've protected it. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 18:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Apostrophe

user: Apostrophe has been constantly harassing and wikistalking me. He was blocked once for harassing users in edit summaries, but he continues... Examples: Edit summary referring to me: "God, not you again". Also, see my talk page for his lovely comment. it should be "Request declined". I before has tried to talk to him on his talk page, and he deleted by comment. I was blocked for supposed harassment, so he should as well. InvaderSora 15:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Another in a long line of attempts to get me banned:

• [31]
• [32]
• [33]
• [34]
• [35]
• [36]
• [37]
• [38]
• [39]
• [40]

' 16:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm finding a fair bit of incivility on Apostrophe's part (including the aformentioned edit summary), but nothing that suggests harassment or wikistalking. InvaderSora: If your allegations are true, please provide some diffs to demonstrate this. Your constantly posting these accusations with no evidence wastes everyone's time, including yours. Heimstern Läufer 17:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

For one, many rude commemnts towards me. Second, Almost every page i edit he goes to. InvaderSora 00:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

An interesting side-dust-up

While I'm sure by now everyone is aware of the ... interesting events surrounding Essjay and his false credentials, a fairly disruptive side dust-up has occurred involving FCYTravis. As some may be aware, there is a straw poll ongoing at Wikipedia:Community_noticeboard/Essjay. Some have raised concerns that it an attack page by nominating it for deletion at Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Community_noticeboard/Essjay. Irregardless of my own feelings there, it was improperly closed by Travis with the following rationale: speedy keep - I am an admin. Thanks. Deleting this page is not going to happen, period. At first he was reverted by fellow admin Betacommand (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), and then by myself. Am I the only one other than Betacommand that thinks that is an extremely poor closing reason? This has been discussed somewhat on his talk page, with what I think were fairly inoffensive comments, to which he responded with astounding vitriol. At first I gave him a {{uw-npa3}} warning, which may or may not have been too strong, which he removed, saying in fairly abrasive terms not to use a template, so I iterated my thoughts in my own words: If you cannot communicate in fashions that are civil and do not include personal attacks, then do not communicate at all. Wikipedia has a Code of Conduct. Occasional lapses are forgivable but continued infractions will be sanctioned. In my opinion his responses hardly follow the decorum expected of a Wikipedia administrator. The comment on Sagacious' talk page is particularly telling [41] as well as his response to my warning [42].

The issues here are several I think:

• The MFD notice for the page has been disruptively removed several times.
• FCYTravis (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) has improperly closed the MFD, and then revert warred when another administrator, Betacommand (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) reverted, ending when I reverted and asked him to recuse himself.
• Travis' responses have been uncivil and abrasive, and his "I'm an admin and I'll do what I want" attitude is unhealthy. He has not maintained the decorum expected of a Wikipedia administrator.
• Travis clearly has a strong negative opinion of Essjay, which is the topic of discussion on the disputed page. Him closing an AFD on the matter is a clear Conflict of Interest and is grossly inappropriate. Administrators should refrain from using their administrative powers in situations where they have a personal stake.

Sincerely, ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 19:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The page close message was in response to my previous close being reverted by Betacommand who then posted "If you're not an admin, don't close this." Well, I am an admin, and thus that reason is not particularly relevant in this case. The MfD has also been closed by Mackensen, an arbitrator - a close which was reverted, by the MfD's opener, Corvus cornix. Peter M Dodge then placed a wikitemplate accusing me of a "personal attack" on my Talk page, when he knows (or should know) that unnecessary use of templates rather than personal messages can be interpreted as an insult. Furthermore, I am entitled to remove postings from my User talk page at any time - it's not a "permanent record" of alleged misdeeds. FCYTravis 20:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If the only response you have to these claims are to attack the person making them, I think it speaks volumes for their veracity. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 20:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It's your opinion that the straw poll is not an appropriate venue for discussion. Many, many others apparently disagree with you. FCYTravis 20:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

<sarcasm>Wow, what a great way to address the concerns.</sarcasm> I am !impressed. He expressed concerns about your behavior and that is your only response? -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, but that is only one of four issues. Care addressing the others? Calling people names is hardly appropriate, nor is the "I'm an admin and I'll do what I want" attitude healthy to the project. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 20:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If I understand things correctly, we are discussing whether there was a proper discussion about closing the discussion regarding whether we should continue the discussion that was set up to summarize the other discussion which was set up as an overflow from the original discussion. I consider myself as big a process-nerd as anyone here but the number of meta-levels here is high. Newyorkbrad 20:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• There is a MFD over the discussion. Travis improperly closed it, and followed it up with a series of personal attacks and "I'm an admin I'll do what I want" type comments to anyone who disagreed with him. I for one have an issue with that kind of attitude, and hence the post here. I apologise if it is unclear. I tried to summate it in the points above. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 20:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand the procedural situation, myself. But imagine trying to explain this thread to a non-wikipedian. Newyorkbrad 20:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• It's your opinion that it was an improper close. Again, I note that I was far from the only administrator to close it, or to ask for a speedy close. The fact that you and I disagree on the nature of a close does not an "incident" make. FCYTravis 20:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I feel the template warning about personal attacks was justified. While it may have been FCYTravis's impression that the MfD would not pass, it was still inappropriate to close it prematurely. 12 keeps (1 made by a single edit user) and 7 deletes, in my opinion, does not in any way justify a closure at that point. Regardless of whether the initial closure edit summary was in response to the small message at the top, the user's behavior past that edit has done little to convince me that it was in good faith. Further to this, I believe this user may be in breach of Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest, mainly after they added this comment to the MfD. (Even if it's not explicitly stated in policy, the fact this user has an apparent strong opinion in the Essjay matter makes it difficult for me to see how them closing an MfD relating to the matter is fair and justified.) --Sagaciousuk ^(talk) 20:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought we all would've learned by now that you don't solve problems by hastily trying to shut down discussion? --Cyde Weys 20:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Endorse Newyorkbrad's comment. I suggest we archive this discussion about closing the discussion about deleting the discussion .... aaargh, no, I can't stop.... --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 20:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

My main complaint is with Travis' attitude and behaviour, which are in my view completely unacceptable. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 20:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd love to know why I was reverted without comment. Mackensen (talk) 20:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

My speedy closes were no more or less disruptive than your and Corvus cornix's attempts to shut down and delete a highly-active discussion about a Wikipedia arbitrator, administrator, bureaucrat, oversight and checkuser who has admitted to creating his entire life story from whole cloth and lying about it to a reporter. FCYTravis 20:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Special rights do not confer special status to people in closing discussions, Travis, and I think you just highlighted your conflict of interest better than I could have. Mackensen, I would like to know the reason as well, but it is tangential to this discussion - perhaps you can discuss this with the reverter on their talk page? ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 20:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't realise that subpages on Wikipedia:Community_noticeboard were the new places for official dispute resolutions. --Sagaciousuk ^(talk) 20:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• It's not. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you have a personal stake in this issue, Peter M Dodge, given that Essjay appointed you to the position of checkuser clerk. You're showing loyalty, which is fine, but don't try and pretend I have some sort of personal vendetta while you're somewhere above the fray. FCYTravis 20:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Again, you're just attacking me and not addressing the claims I've made. If you don't want to address the claims, say so. Stop with the smokescreen. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 22:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Wheel Warring stops now

May I remind the gentlemen Admins that these petty conflicts are an embarresmant for Wikipedia? If this goes on, expect Jimbo to desysop you in a instant as he did last week, when bickering admins couldn't keep their heads cool. --Edokter (Talk) 20:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• On top of that. If Essjay needs to drop any position, Jimbo will make that decision. As far as I'm concerned this new info has no effect on how reliable and efficient his Wikipedia contributions are. Voting this early is indeed evil. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

  Out of interest, is there any way to override the MfD process - or to somehow lock the Wikipedia:Community_noticeboard/Essjay page to help prevent matters getting worse? I really don't think the current 'discussion' is helping things in the slightest. Nevermind, finally it's moved to RfC. --Sagaciousuk ^(talk) 20:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

  • You don't think it's interesting that virtually no one agrees with Jimbo that "What Essjay did is okay"? Just because it came as a result of some weird vote-like thing doesn't mean it's an opinion that should be brushed aside... obviously most people feel that way. --W.marsh 20:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

  No not really. There are plenty of people who agree with Jimbo, and it doesn't surprise me they didn't want to join in alongside the wash of people !voting for the other side. --Sagaciousuk ^(talk) 21:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Right. In a community of tens if not hundreds of thousands, a few dozen people piling on to a straw poll is hardly a groundswell - and actually quite a few seem to think that no sanctions are necessary at this time, and that we should wait for Essjay to explain himself. Guy (Help!) 22:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• • • You don’t think those of us who find that subpage <expletive> <harsher term for ‘silly’> would validate it by participating, do you? The page cannot really be seen as anything but a non-representative list of opinions; in particular, ‘obviously most’ cannot be supported by it. Anyway, the RFC presumably obsoletes the subpage. —xyzzy_n 21:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

  Therefore, we're not in a position to judge how many people agree or disagree with Jimbo's view - if we've only that to go on. --Sagaciousuk ^(talk) 21:23, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Userpage being used to attack a user

User:Peter M Dodge has recently decided to leave Wikipedia. In so doing, he has posted a parting statement on his userpage which says, in part:

• "Durin's edits were largely unhelpful, demeaning editors over edit counts and such"
• "[Durin] made a very nasty comment being directed towards myself [1] - better than me because I have a mental condition? Pssh. Shove it."

Setting aside whether my comment was as he notes for the moment (will address below), Wikipedia:Userpage#What_can_I_not_have_on_my_user_page.3F states a position against polemical statements and quotes Jimbo Wales as saying "libelling people on userpages is a bad idea, and in fact, using userpages to attack people or campaign for or against anything or anyone is a bad idea". I have no means of defending myself against any reader who comes to that page. It would be inappropriate for me to post a rebuttal on his userpage, or to remove this content from his userpage since it is an attack against me. If he wants to leave Wikipedia, that's his business and I wish him the best of luck in future endeavors. But, it is inappropriate for him to use his userpage as a soapbox to blast other editors on Wikipedia. Thus, I am bringing it here to have it removed from his userpage, assuming another admin feels as I do that this is inappropriate. --Durin 21:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking at what he wrote, I agree that it's inappropriate, and I've removed it. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 21:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

With respect to my comments to him

This is quite frustrating to me because my every intent in posting this in response to him was to point out that I understood his outburst was not something he had control over, and I forgave him for it. No attempt on my part was made to act or sound as if I was somehow superior to him. My every statement on Wikipedia has continually and routinely shown that I do not hold any good-faith user in any higher or lower respect than I hold myself. This includes even Jimbo, whom I have taken to task twice before for what I felt were errors on his part. Regardless, I recognized post-facto that there were other ways of interpreting my comment towards him. Because of this, I apologized twice to him [43] [44]. In the last, I specifically asked him "If there's something more that I can do to make up for this error on my part, by all means please let me know." Despite this, he remains offended and continues to attack me for it. I am deeply bothered by this because there are alternate interpretations. If I could somehow undo what was said, I would. I never intended to offend him.

If User:Peter M Dodge wishes to take this matter up in the form of a formal complaint against me, I would be happy to have him do so, in the hopes that this can be amicably resolved. At this point, I do not see how I can make any more amends for this than I already have. My apologies to him are heartfelt and honest. Had I felt at the time there was any other way to interpret my comments towards him than the good intentions that I meant, I would never have clicked "Save page". I remain at his disposal to tell me how I might make amends for this in any way in which I have not already done so. --Durin 21:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

You have made sincere amends, and on public pages, no less; you can't do anything else. It isn't your problem that he hasn't accepted your multiple attempts at an apology for a minor slip made with no bad faith intentions. Picaroon 22:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Just my two cents, but bringing his depression into this is an almost unforgiveable action. I can't imagine what was going through your head when you wrote that, and had I seen it when it happened, I might have blocked you straight-out for such a blatant personal attack. We have many users here who suffer from mental illnesses or developmental disorders, and they should get the same courtesy and civility that everyone else gets. Durin, the lesson here is to watch what you say; it looks to me like your words drove off a good editor. | Mr. Darcy talk 15:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

First, had you made a block of that sort, could you have honestly defended it as being preventative and not punitive? And second, Peter is still editing. Durin didn't drive him anywhere. Picaroon 22:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• I will unequivocally state that Durin's completely uncalled-for comments are one of the reason's I'm tying up lose ends here and leaving. Given that I'm leaving, I really don't care if he "apologises" or not, but I've yet to see an apology that wasn't belittling me more - in fact, in light of that, I'd rather he didn't "apologise" again. "✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 23:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Peter, for well over a month you have said that you intended to leave the project after the Ilena/fylsee arb com. As for mentioning your personal life, if you advertise your moods so visably on your user page it is inevitable that some people will mention it. To then use that against people seems to be a bit strange. If you are that sensitive about it, wouldn't it be better to not advertise it? Or take a break? Hopefully you will come back when you feel better. David D. (Talk) 23:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I do not intend on returning. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 23:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
      • That works too. It may be for the best if wikipedia just gets you frustrated. David D. (Talk) 23:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. I contribute because I enjoy contributing, and when it ceases being enjoyable, I cease contributing. I wore my ailments and my identity on my sleeve, despite stalkers and harsh words about them for quite some time. Durin's comment was hardly the first harsh comment about it, but it will be the last, on Wikipedia at least - or the last I'll read. Using someone's mental disabilities against them to gain an advantage in debate is completely unacceptable. It's not the only reason I'm leaving, but it's a big one.

The idea previously was to "retire" to just clerking for a while to pass the time and take time off to feel comfortable editing again. I no longer really have a desire to get comfortable editing here - in fact, if I were to get comfortable in a place where those kinds of attacks are acceptable, I would worry about myself. ✎ Peter M Dodge (Talk to Me) 23:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

"I wore my ailments and my identity on my sleeve, despite stalkers and harsh words", I'm not sure what you are referring to here. The only criticisms i have seen, or made myself, have been based on your actions in wikipedia. Your indignation and "get a clue" attitude do not help you on wikipedia. David D. (Talk) 05:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocking

Moved to WT:BP#Notifying users of blocks

Requesting block of IP: 70.53.94.116

This IP added these messages to different articles: [45], [46], [47], [48], [49]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theunicyclegirl (talk • contribs) 00:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

I've diffed your comments because no need to spread the personal details anywhere. Requesting deletion of diffs, too. x42bn6 Talk 00:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, took it to WP:AIV. For stuff like this you should get a faster response there. x42bn6 Talk 00:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Goofybiscuit

What is this awful userpage? please block ´em all.----Doktor Who (UTC)01:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It´s ok now

[50]--Doktor Who 01:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Reverting IAR actions

As it says somewhere above. I earlier today tried to move the Brandt article away from another non-consensus AFD by stubbing it and spliting any useful information to other articles. I provided a detailed explanation at Talk:Daniel Brandt, and specifically asked any reverting admin to explain their reasoning, and everybody else to let it go after that and continue with the previous process. Not everybody agreed, but we were having some sort of conversation about what to do next. So I finally went to sleep. When I woke up, I found the article on AFD again, ahead of previously agreed time. So it obviously didn't work, and now we're maybe even worse off, and if we are, I'm sorry I caused it.

What I find curious is this: Despite my thorough explanation, detailed reasoning, and a polite request to handle the matter graciously, I was reverted by Majorly whose only communication with me or the general readership of the talk page existed of an unprotection summary. I tried talking about it with him on IRC, but it's obvious that we won't come to an agreement that way. In any case, this isn't a question about Majorly, it's about whether this kind of revert is justified in this kind of situation. Zocky | picture popups 02:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't appear that Majorly reverted your edit, just your protection of the page. Since you had just made a major edit to the page, protecting it on your chosen version was inappropriate. (Why, for instance, should only admins be able to revert you?) Your explanation was certainly detailed but did not appear to me to explain why you felt protection was needed. In light of that I think Majorly's unprotection was justified. Though I don't begrudge your effort to try something original, and I think your edit was probably good, protecting the page was not necessary. Christopher Parham (talk) 02:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

My only admin action was protecting the page. When the page was unprotected, all my other actions were irrelevant. Zocky | picture popups 02:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand that, but I think that the admin part of your action was largely unexplained, and inappropriate. The main content of your edit, the stubbing and merging to which you devoted hundreds of words of explanation, was not reverted. Christopher Parham (talk) 02:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

As far as I understand, he unprotected the page specifically by request of editors who wanted to revert the article itself. But in any case, my question is not "should Majorly have unprotected the page?" I agreed in advance that I would have no problem with anyone doing that and I don't. The more relevant questions are: was there sufficient communication from my side for what I was doing? was there sufficient communication from his side? was he right to ignore my request for explanation? Zocky | picture popups 02:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Having read your statement, I don't quite understand why you protected the page, aside from the fact that you liked your version. But presumably everyone else liked their versions as well. So to use your words I think the communication from your side was not sufficient. Majorly might have been a bit rude in his responses and certainly should have said a few sentences more at your request, but I think his initial unprotection summary was reason enough; your action was exceptional (and basically contrary to the main rules on using protection, since you apparently were directly using it to win a content dispute) and not well-supported by the connected explanation. Christopher Parham (talk) 02:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

What content dispute? What my version? I have nowhere expressed my opinion on what the fate of the article should be. I was looking for a way forward. We don't have a deadline, the article doesn't have to be perfect today or tomorrow. Even waiting for the whole 13 months would not have made Wikipedia a worse encyclopedia, and we were obviously discussing things to be done before that, even today. Zocky | picture popups 03:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You dramatically edited the article which was the subject of a current dispute, in a way directly relevant to that dispute. That makes you part of the content dispute. And this clearly expresses your opinion on the proper fate of the article. (To quote: "The only possible solution left is disambiguate. Since this obviously can't be literally disambiguated, I decided to split, merge, stub and protect.") To then protect the page (preventing people from reverting your major edit should they disagree with it) is not appropriate at all, without some strong explanation of the need for an extraordinary response (for instance, doing this in a BLP situation might be appropriate). Christopher Parham (talk) 03:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't a content decision, it was about process. I was summarizing the arguments and deducing from them based on what both sides said, not based on what I personally would prefer, nor even based on what I think is the right thing to do with an article. I was attempting to shortcut another round of AFD which, especially with the rumours of admins being willing to close a non-consensus discussion as delete, wasn't looking like something that will solve our long-term problem with this article. Where does the assumption that I did otherwise come from? Zocky | picture popups 03:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, it was definitely a content issue; you changed the content of the article radically. By doing so you offer a clear opinion on what the article should contain (even if based on the opinions of others and not your personal preference), and involve yourself in the content dispute you were trying to address. I'm not sure what you are getting at by saying this was a process action; what process involves stubbifying/merging an article and then protecting it? If the point was just to force a conversation, which is a valid goal, you can simply protect the article. There are very few exceptional cases in which you should both make substantial edits to a page and protect it. This was not one of them. Christopher Parham (talk) 04:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

That's somewhat like saying that an admin closing an AFD is getting involved in the content issue. "Process" is not the same thing as "policy". Policy describes and prescribes process. What I did was out of other policy than IAR, but it wasn't out of process because I did what IAR, itself a policy, demands in such cases. Zocky | picture popups 04:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Question; "should Majorly have unprotected the page?" Answer; Yes. To make such bold changes to an article then fully protect it... what were you thinking? To do so then make it that only admins should be able to make amendments? Highly inappropriate protection IMO. Q; "was there sufficient communication from my side for what I was doing?" A; Irrelevant. Sorry Zocky I just dont see your logic here Glen 02:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Look, we're not going to abandon IAR, and this was a rare instance of it being used as it's supposed to be used: I made a decision which was not inline with other policy, but I thought it the best course of action. I fully explained my reasoning, and was engaged in the discussion about it on the appropriate page. I didn't delete anything, nor force removal of any information whatsoever. I even myself moved the information I thought was notable to another article.

Some people expressed support, some were outraged, others were outraged at first, but decided to engage in the discussion anyway. I was not threatening to force my way, I even offered to revert myself if we can't come to an agreement in a day or two. I left an open option for any admin overruling me and the return to the regular process at any time, all I asked was explained reasoning, so that we can move on normally.

It's not just a matter of "respecting your felow admins". Majorly could have chosen to undo my protection and leave a message on the talk page, explaining why he thought that that's a better way of dealing with things and advised everyone to wait for the originally suggested one week before going into AFD. If he did, I wouldn't be here complaining. Zocky | picture popups 03:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I recognize that anything D.Bran.dt-affiliated is going to generate angst and various other issues, so I respect any attempts to allay some of that. In my opinion, though, IAR is intended more to be a way to avoid cumbersome process, rather than to avoid longstanding and important policy (such as not using protection to enforce your version of an article). I don't fault you for attempting it for the reasons above, but I also don't think it's something that should be done and protection should have been removed. However, I also agree that communication should have taken place by whoever unprotected to explain the reasons why. In my humble opinion, 98% of the wikidrama around these parts could be avoided outright if people would simply hold their horses and talk it out rather than reacting disproportionately out of moral outrage (note: speaking in generalities, not saying that's what happened here). So, in summary, I like to sit on fences. Both sides could have done things better, and (hopefully once Majorly sees this) we can all move on with better ideas on how to proceed in the future. Unfortunately, we'll still have all forms of d.bra.nd-T-related drama. My $0.02. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 03:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand your rationale for the changes (though personally disagree with them) however, I dont understand what this has to do with fully protecting the article. The people you're protecting it from are good faith editors. Not vandals, not those involved in edit wars, but those interested in seeing the best article being produced. Just because I have a sysop flag next to my name should not mean I'm the only one able to disagree with you. This is a misapplication of IAR. If your changes made such sense - why do you need to protect it? Glen 03:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The whole point was keeping it at a near disambig for a time and moving all useful information about his activities to other appropriate articles. Let's face it, we're not talking about some random article. Without protection, I would have been immediately reverted. Sure, I could have gotten several people to do editwar for me and another admin to protect it afterwards, but if I tried that, the somewhat normal conversation we were having would have lasted 5 seconds instead of half a day. Zocky | picture popups 03:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I've posted my concluding comment on the matter at the latest AFD, as linked below. Zocky | picture popups 04:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Logically, 'IAR' can only work if everyone (or nearly everyone) agrees that the action is correct/beneficial. If they don't then someone is just going to IAR to put it back. In short, IAR leads directly to edit/wheel warring and stagnation unless the action is uncontroversial. For actions which ARE generally agreed IAR is a way of saving time and cutting through red tape. For actions which are disputed it is a disruptive waste of time that would be wise to avoid. There was no chance of your Brandt rewrite being greeted with near universal acceptance - which you presumably knew and therefor protected the article. Therefor it was IMO a poor candidate for an invocation of IAR... and I am only surprised that it didn't turn out alot worse. --CBD 20:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Brandt (13th nomination)

In case anyone hasn't noticed, there's another AFD - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Brandt (13th nomination) - up about this thing, despite the DRV determination that it should wait a week. I'm of the strong opinion that this one should be closed and not brought up again until some arbitrary point in time after the emotions of the situation have died down. Is anyone else of that view? --BigDT 03:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

No. A large part of the problem has been the denial of an appropriate forum for discussion due to early closures every AFD since November 2005. Let it run. Let it run long. Speedily cutting off discussion is making things worse. GRBerry 04:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I at this point have no choice but to agree that an AFD is probably the only way forward. But I'm extremely dissappointed that it was pushed today. We agreed just 3 days ago that the AFD would be in 7 days. After my IAR intervention failed, the proper thing is to return to the normal process, or possibly discuss other options, not run the AFD ahead of time. Many people indicated they want to present prepared cases at the AFD, and this cheats them of the chance to do that. Zocky | picture popups 04:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, who cares. I can understand Isotope's motivation for opening the debate early: to preemptively frame it in such a way that SNOW/IAR don't get invoked and to start right off with a plea for everyone to be cool and civil. He could have waited but then he might not have been able to do that. I applaud his initiative there. Mangojuice^talk 04:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Only 13? Geez! :) --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 10:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Kmnmo

Can someone please look into this User and see whether they are eligable to have a temporary ban. Although not a significant issue, for one month this User has repeatedly (daily) continually reversed referenced data, and replaced with own data. The User has also ignored all attempts of communication in explaining what they are doing is against wikipedia policy. They have also made their own page of data in a forum with fake data, then referenced it. [51] thanks so much60.234.242.196 04:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Indigo7

User:Indigo7 is a new user who's bad-faith AfDing multiple articles, such as Internet Storm Center and Daily Illini, as well as disrupting Wikipedia:Press coverage. I'm trying to keep up with him.--Djrobgordon 04:54, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Appears to be AfDing all articles his real name was mentioned in because his vanity autobio was removed.--Djrobgordon 05:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Has been indef blocked by User:HappyCamper. Trebor 10:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what was that whole WP:BAMBI shit about? JuJube 10:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Attacking John Bambenek. That's about it.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 10:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

And who is that? ^_^ JuJube 10:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. But his article was deleted 8 times—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 10:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Requesting block of: Aquinas4

I'm requesting that Aquinas4 be block. I posted her second {{uw-vandalism4}} today. It's her second final warning. xD

--Theunicyclegirl 05:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Please make these requests at WP:AIV. Though I will do this block now. :D Congrats on the good job at counter vandalism. —— Eagle101 ^{Need help?} 05:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Requesting block of: Hhwha1

Click here to see his history. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theunicyclegirl (talk • contribs).

Please use WP:AIV for reports of obvious vandalism. This user has already been blocked anyways [52], which is the only reason he's stopped... -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 05:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Folks...

I know there is a fair amount distracting us today, and I am just as guilty, but there is a HUGE amount of stuff at CSD, more specifically in unsourced / untagged / cv images. I'm attacking it now, but we need more. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 05:54, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Getting down to a far more manageable size now. Thanks for the heads-up. --InShaneee 06:54, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The Main CSD, yes, but there are still thousands of nosource images that need to be looked at. I finished off the 14th, it appears someone is on the fifteenth now. But there are still seven other subcategories jam packed. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

BillDeanCarter's comments on Essjay's Talk page

Could someone please consider a short term block for BillDeanCarter? He or she continues to make rude and hostile comments to editors on Essjay's Talk page despite several editors asking him to cease. I know that emotions are heated but telling other editors to "shut up", "shut up you big babies", "you are a big baby", "this is a moment when big babies can come out and whine", "you are a big baby", and "get over yourself" is only making the situation worse. Apparently the pleas to stop this behavior on his or her Talk page are not working; I ask that you consider a brief block to reign in this behavior. --ElKevbo 06:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how you can single out my occasional excesses when the entire Talk page is out of control. I'm trying to bring balance to what I consider to be a lynching of a fellow Wikipedian.-BillDeanCarter 07:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Your excesses were not occasional; literally every single edit you made to that page has been needlessly abusive and abrasive. That you continue to do so after being politely asked to stop by multiple editors is completely unacceptable. --ElKevbo 07:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

First, you can't expect balance from a discussion in which nearly everybody agrees. But even if it were different, attempting to bring balance by insulting people is not likely to work. Zocky | picture popups 07:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Although it is a bit late at this point and doing so would probably be more punative than preventative, this user certainly merited a block for the excesses of his incivility. (→Netscott) 18:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Netscott. I agree that at this point a block would likely be punative rather than preventative. Appreciate your time! --ElKevbo 00:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the time has passed, and things do seem to be settling down. Metamagician3000 02:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Grace Bonney

The creator of Grace Bonney, DesignReferences (talk · contribs), contacted me about the page, stating:

I created the entries and would like to have them removed because Administrators aren't doing a good job of keeping defamatory content off the page. The subject of the entries contacted me as well and ask me to remove them. I have requested Speedy Deletion because they have been constantly edited with personal attacks. I tried to blank the page all together and was told that my edit was considered "vandalous" (But in the FAQ on deletion it says that if a creator blanks a page it could be considered a request for deletion). Please let me know what I need to do to remove this entry all together from Wikipedia to prevent the defamation which is going on.

I figured it'd be best to get some admin input on the situation...if the subject of the article wishes to have his or her info removed, is that kosher? Vandalism can be fought and reverted, and the subject seems to have a WP:BIO-sufficient notability. What course of action should be taken? -- Scientizzle 08:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It has WP:BIO-sufficient notability? Really? No sources, the claim to fame in the article was helping to maintain a website... It seemed like a totally obvious speedy deletion to me, and that's what I did. We don't remove articles simply because someone doesn't want to be on here, and there are ways to attract adequate attention to pages in need, but this was obviously not notable enough to me. Did I miss something? Outside review is welcome, but I won't be available for two days, starting right about... Now. Grandmasterka 08:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I grabbed some attributed media coverage and placed it on the talk page, but hadn't independently verified more than a couple. All I was saying it that it was possibly gray-area notability or better, and I wanted some feedback on the situation. I wasn't honestly sure about whether living people had any say over the inclusion of their biographies. -- Scientizzle 09:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe 20,000 google hits and the designer's desire not to have Wikipedia note she's a blogger paid to promote products? KP Botany 08:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

In response to your snooty edit summary... You could rewrite the article yourself with those sources, KP. Seeing that the article was tagged as unsourced for half a year doesn't elevate my faith in finding reliable sources. Besides which, I never said she was a paid blogger. I said there's no proof she meets WP:BIO. Grandmasterka 09:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Why bother writing it, since although she's mentioned in plenty of newspapers, magazines and on television shows and gets plenty of Internet play it has already been decreed, that she doesn't meet WP:BIO. It will just be deleted because your seeing "no proof she meets WP:BIO" trumps the media. KP Botany 09:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You do realize that WP:CSD#A7 says "no assertion of notability", right?—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 09:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• Valid A7 speedy, I'd say. Guy (Help!) 09:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The appropriate place for a debate on N is AfD. If the article is currently deleted, then I suppose the proper place is Deletion Review. Not here.DGG 18:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, just take to Deletion Review if there is disagreement with the decision. It doesn't sound like blatant out of process deletion that an admin should simply reverse. Metamagician3000 02:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't realize Scientizzle was trying to find independent sources... I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. If anyone wants it in their userspace I'd be happy to move it there for you. Or, you can recreate it with some sources. I just get annoyed when I delete a vanity bio that hasn't been sourced or had any assertion of notability for almost a year, and people who had nothing to do with the article before suddenly start complaining. Grandmasterka 21:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Polypmaster

Polypmaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) continues to revert to incorrect license tags, for instance on Image:Cota bus.jpg. Please advise. --NE2 09:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I am blocking that account until the user starts talking rather than reverting. Not one single talk edit, only one user talk edit, no responses to numerous notices on the user's talk page. Guy (Help!) 11:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Can the images be deleted? --NE2 11:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It's probably better to wait and go through each Image individually tag them and wait for their impending deletion rather than press the deletion process foward. — Moe 15:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Drone (band)

It is blatant advertising ¸ I tagged with {db-spam}--Doktor Who 12:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I would've tagged it with {db-band}, but that still reads roughly the same. --Dane ^~nya 12:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok¸ done.--Doktor Who 12:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

And personally, Im not even sure if you can call them a "band".Third Wave Ska 12:59, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Call them a band,sir. Call them a band.Charlie Fixes It! 13

06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It's been recreated. I tagged it with {{db-band}}. --Edokter (Talk) 15:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

hmmm.....---Doktor Who 21:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Request Block for 69.255.189.140

This IP address recently made repeated inappropriate edits on the article for Battlefield High School, including the addition of extraneous commentary and the deletion of the entire article. Bhs itrt 14:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

His or her vandalism was over a week ago. No warning or block needed. — Moe 15:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

There's already been a warning. Nothing has changed since. Metamagician3000 02:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:DeanHinnen

DeanHinnen (talk · contribs) is once again causing disruption, this time by unilaterally removing information from the ArbCom case , both evidence and workshop. He is of course free to ask the clerks to redact information should he wish to do so, but removing the evidence and workshop comments of others is plainly disruptive. Since I lost patience with him after about his third edit, perhaps someone else could educate him. Guy (Help!) 15:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Left a warning. — Moe 15:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Isn't this his 50th or so warning? He's been through multiple Arbcoms, he knows the rules. How many times will Dean and Bryan and the Freeper gang get free wiki-abuse passes? It seems like the timespan defense (well, they haven't committed X in the last Y time period, despite having committed this offense Z times before) gets used way too often. And frankly, I think that the 'I'm in an Arbcom' defense is getting abused too. Dean's well aware of all of this stuff, he's been in multiple arbcoms, block him. ThuranX 15:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Not much a non-admin can do but warn him, sorry :) I would agree to a block if he continues though. — Moe 16:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

He appears to have stopped, at least for now. — Moe 16:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I've issued a 24 hour block. Durova^Charge! 22:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Concur. Thatcher131 00:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Noting my endorsement. Daniel Bryant 06:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:141.151.83.163

I'm posting this here instead of WP:AIV as this is a low frequency vandal. 141.151.83.163 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) just returned from a block and recently made 8 edits as vandalism. This IP's entire editing history has been vandalism to Philadelphia related sports topics. Can this IP please be blocked again for a longer length of time? --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 15:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I reported this on WP:AIV before I reverted and saw no warnings on his talk page for recent vandalism. After Midnight, how does this user know how to stop his actions if you never warn while he is vandalizing? I left his a final warning message and that should do it. If he persists, report on AIV. — Moe 16:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

A small report on WP:AIV was logged and your complaint has been read. Me or my representative will be in touch.Ned606Wi 16:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, dare I ask representative of whom and for what purpose? — Moe 16:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Moe, you are correct that I did not warn the user while they were vandalising. However, you should note that the user had received several messages the last time that they vandalised and did receive a block. The user certainly had the opportunity to receive these messages and was blocked during a prior session, which is a pretty strong message in itself. Also, please note that AIV instructions specifically direct this type of vandalism reporting to this page as AIV is only for cases where immediate action is required. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 16:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

AIV is used for immediate response of IP vandalism, which of course would have been the case if you had responded accordingly. AIV actually says "use the links above", not specifically this page, just pointing out. Regardless of what AIV says, when a users starts vandalizing on this site, common sense tells us to warn him of his actions, not wait until he commits 8 acts of vandalism, not warn him and expect him to get blocked. Again, if he starts again, go ahead and revert and report so he can be blocked, but at least, next time, if an IP starts, warn them. — Moe 16:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Moe, I agree that it is best to warn when the user is vandalising, but until I get the special bells to ring in my head to alert me to check the articles and the watchlist when the vandalism is occurring, I can not always be there to do it in time. There is a difference between "wait until he commits 8 acts of vandalism" and just not being aware of something while it is happenning. Please keep in mind that we all do the best that we can here, we are not neglectful or lazy, as I feel you are suggesting to me. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 17:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry if this is what you are implying, because it wasn't my intention and I apologize. But you seem to want something more to be done, am I correct? If it a block on the IP, after the user has stopped, we must not block for the sake of blocking. — Moe 17:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying. I've seen you around here for a long time, so I'm glad that I was wrong regarding your intent. It is frustrating to me that a user who makes many vandal edits from a seemingly static IP can't be treated more harshly, but I understand that is the way it goes.... --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 17:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for understanding :) — Moe 17:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it was misrepresentative on my own behalf to bestow a title on my fellow computer user (now immersed in other computer matters (IBM)), to call him a representative. All I meant was; my roommate who's more knowledgeable on this matter will shortly be offering his help.Ned606Wi 16:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

This is fine. — Moe 16:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

This is the roommate of Ned60wi and am quite perturbed to see that he offered my services for free. I guess he wants to pay all the rent this month. Nothing personal, but if you want my help you'll have to pay like everyone else.Veepersleeper 18:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't need help with anything, this matter has been resolved. — Moe 18:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It's just that- my roommate keeps doing this crap to me! Im about ready to walk out of here, you know.Veepersleeper 18:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If he keeps doing that to you, maybe you should charge double for that rent :) — Moe 18:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

PS I left a firm message on his talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ned606Wi to let him know where I stand! and am asking you guys in advance not to block me since I toned down the blue streak. Thank ya!Veepersleeper 18:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you please block Veepersleeper because I dont need sarcasm on my talk page. And no, Veep, you cant use my computer.Ned606Wi 18:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

We don't block for this reason. If you two could take this conversation off-wiki, that would be most helpful. — Moe 18:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If those two would be civil, we could get a lot more done around here. Seriously guys, buy each other a beer.BoredRat 19:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It always worked with my roommate. Oops-former roommate. Having a beer after an argument is rarely a good idea.Ralph $20,000 yr Engineer 19:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You're an engineer and you only make 20,000/yr.? You are also an idiot.Danny the Destroyer 19:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else find it odd that four brand new users have come straight to this thread to argue with each other? IrishGuy ^talk 19:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope. And I count 5. — Moe 19:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I started all this trouble. Veepersleeper's the only one I know. The other ones are StellaConfusingNanniegoats.Ned606Wi 19:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked all five as troll accounts. I feel rather confident that these are all the same user. | Mr. Darcy talk 21:54, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely. I didn't want to do it myself without getting input from someone else. IrishGuy ^talk 22:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Ann Coulter

For nearly 2 weeks now, this article has been under attack by sock puppeteers, vandals and agenda pushers. Could the editors there get some assistance? Some of the socks have been dealt with, but they keep coming back and have been joined by a number of people trying to push in controversial material despite discussion on the talk page. Any help would be fantastic. Kyaa the Catlord 20:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Seems like the problem is that regular editors oppose 'recentism' in any form, then use the 'it's been weeks and no one is talking about it' argument to avoid inclusions. The fact that multiple editors left comments about Coulter's use of 'gay' as an attack comment against Edwards, and even before that in multiple instances, thus constituting a notable pattern, and that one editor left a list of six different national specific coverage/reaction instances, and so on is ALL dismissed as activist recentism is no doubt part of the reason for the edit war. The simple fact is that Coulter's aware of the impact of her comments, and the media noise it generates, and so on. To not include a known pattern of behavior which even the conservative talking heads are repudiating, instituted against a major political figure, saying 'let's wait and see' each time she does it, is to make the article inherently POV. If she says something stupid, and gets called about it, it should be included with citation. That's what Wikipedia's here for. Documentation. No one's denying what she said, it's on tape and all over the internet. Apparently some editors can support that it's a pattern with citation, making it doubly notable, and still it's deflected with 'Let's avoid recentism'. I don't have a solution, but the page is guaranteed to keep being subject to edits seeking to include it. I recommend that the regular group of editors finds a way to include it with proper citation. If you take control of how it's phrased, you can probably control it more than the general denial on grounds of 'recentism' pattern. ThuranX 20:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thuran, you make some good points, but I think Kyaa's worried about sockpuppetry. Repost your content concerns to the talk page, but I would also like a checkuser on the new crop of rednames that have appeared on the article talk pages, just to keep things even. --kizzle 21:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

No thanks. You already linked to this AN/I at the talk page. Anyone interested can read my comment here. ThuranX 21:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to do what you wish, I just think addressing content issues about Ann Coulter on WP:AN/I is not going to get a lot of attention from admins. --kizzle 21:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Offhand I think I agree with ThuranX. I hope article ownership issues aren't keeping important information out of this article, for example I heard about the Edwards comment today and... no mention of that in her Wikipedia article. Various things I know about her from over the years are also not in the article. --W.marsh 21:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If you'd take a look at the talk page, you'll see that we're considering putting it in, we're just waiting to get a better assessment of how notable it is. Remember, Wikipedia is not a news site. --kizzle 21:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I know what Wikipedia is and isn't, no reminder wanted. If lots of people are looking for it, and it can be backed up by reliable sources... it should go in. If no one cares much after a few weeks or months, it should be axed. But lots of people check a Wikipedia article when someone is in the news... we write for them, not for ourselves. That's just how I look at it. --W.marsh 21:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Like I said, Like W.Marsh said. It's WP:OWN all over the place there. Kizzle's reply? "we're just waiting to get a better assessment of how notable it is. Remember, Wikipedia is not a news site." She means:'We want to avoid recentism' Forget it. This AN/I was a sham to look like they cared about other people's opinions. DeanHinnen will be showing up any moment to protect it all in the name of Freeper fair and balanced reporting. ThuranX 21:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

So how does the fact that I proposed to include it factor in with your recent comment? Am I still a "freeper"? --kizzle 22:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You haven't proposed to include it, youv'e proposed waiting to see how it settles out to see if it survives your percieved 'recentism'. It's the same WP:OWN and defense of a conservative hero. You might not actually BE a Freeper, but you're sharing their same 'keep our heroes' pages clean of criticism' mentality. Do not represent reasserting recentism as b einb the same as actually wanting to include it. But I'm done with this issue. Nothing's going to change it, because no matter how many editors showed up to get it in, in a week, the article would bre back to it's core editors, who would revert it out again. Not worth debating any more.ThuranX 23:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The irony of your assessment of my political persuasion is amazing. Ask Kyaa. --kizzle 23:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I was too busy laughing at ThuranX. :P Kyaa the Catlord 23:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Please, if people must argue about this somewhere, argue at Talk:Ann Coulter, and remember, she is a living person, with all that implies. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• WP:RFC is thataway. Unless someone presents evidence of sockpuppet block evasion this looks like a content dispute. Durova^Charge! 22:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. --kizzle 22:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• [53] Your wish is my desire. Last time we had this same pattern, the admin who FINALLY stepped in suggested we waited too long to take this to AN/I. I don't wait and we get attacked. WTF Wikipedia? Kyaa the Catlord 22:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

We still need admin interest in this. Despite over a dozen distinct, national or international level Sources, despite editors expressing interest in seeing the info and shock that it was not included, Kyaa and Kizzle continue to sit on 'recentism' as a reason to not include the information. I have added it, in light of the massive amount of policy based support for its' inclusion, and Kyaa's response was to allege a WP:POINT Violation. I have offered to ignore that, but I doubt it will stand or last. An admin needs to step in NOW anre review it. ThuranX 00:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You mean, you disagree about an editor about the content of an article? That's a content dispute. Talk:Ann Coulter plz. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I repeat, This page needs an ADMIN. ThuranX 00:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Thanks for the checkuser link. To make matters clear, allegations need to be supported by adequate and relevant evidence. It would have been better to have a description along with the checkuser link that connected all the logical dots. If you want admin volunteer time devoted to your problem, it helps to organize information that the admins can follow up on. I'll look into this. Durova^Charge! 01:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've upgraded to full page protection on the article, set to expire Tuesday. That should be long enough for the checkuser result to come in. Durova^Charge! 01:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a look over there. - FaAfA (yap) 04:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

ThuranX, the page has an admin. Cool Hand Luke has been overlooking it and helping with edits for a month or so. And really, accusing kizzle of being an admirer of Ann Coulter is amusing on so many levels. Take a look at the archive pages. --Ubiq 11:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:RuleBrittania

For no apparent reason aside to harass, RuleBrittania (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has asked for my talkpage to be un-semiprotected and has now been declined twice. He claims he wanted to post an AGF "warning" on my talkpage, even though I have not once encountered this "new" editor before. Edits indicate that RuleBritannia is indefintely banned editor Frogsprog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)/NoJoyInMudville (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) with the same edits to articles such as Korean Friendship Association and North Korea. For the record, I was the admin who banned Frogsprog and NoJoyInMudville back in September after numerous blocks and warnings about incivility and personal attacks.--MONGO 21:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Defense - I simply noted an incivil comment made by MONGO and wanted to say something about it, I can't even find the edit as I noticed it before I was unblocked, all I wanted to do was post him a message, I haven't committed any vandalism! any edits I made which were deemed to be POV were reverted and I haven't touched the articles since! I know MONGO has been here longer than me so I spent a lot of time exploring the site to actually find how to defend myself here! I notice that MONGO was himself "de-sysoped" for this exact kind of over-reaction late last year. I apologise for any offence MONGO took from my intent to warn him, I now know it's for some reason not accepted for inexperienced editors to warn long standing users. --RuleBrittania 21:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Without the diff to prove he deserves a warning, we can't really say if he should have it or not. How do we know the edit is not from May or June last year? -- ReyBrujo 21:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I know I understand, I was really new at the time, I'm learning now. I don't think I should be reported as an incident just because I messed up once, I'm sorry, is that ok or shall I just leave now?? --RuleBrittania 21:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Based on the contribution pattern (silly POV edits related to the relative merits of the North Korean and U.S. governments), I've blocked RuleBrittania (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) as a Frogsprog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) sockpuppet. Sandstein 21:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I looked through the contributions as well, and it seems pretty obvious. ElinorD (talk) 21:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... I looked through those contributions too, and some are good edits, others are the kind of POV edits rather typical of new editors who haven't yet learned how to write properly for the encyclopedia. Is there any other reason than unpopular political POV for banning this editor? Zocky | picture popups 01:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...how about the fact that he has used about two dozen sock accounts for harassment and POV pushing? I don't even edit any articles this editor does...he just has a beef since I blocked a few of his sock accounts a while back. his IP was supposedly blocked for a long while, but is apparently editing again] See, 82.43.244.187 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log).--MONGO 06:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well, the POV itself is of course not a reason for blocking. Sockpuppetry when indefinitely blocked is. The POV edits are just an indication to establish this. If you take a look at the contributions of the users in Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Frogsprog, you'll notice that it's characteristic of this vandal to make vaguely trollish POV edits to North Korea-related content and to harrass MONGO, such as [54], [55], [56] etc. Sandstein 06:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I also looked at FrogSprog's contribs, and they don't seem that remarkable. The Bush sodomite thing wasn't very useful, but it wasn't in an article. Otherwise, FrogSprog had mostly good edits. What was the reason for banning him in the first place? Zocky | picture popups 07:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Just for a start, how about this friendly message. Or this charming enhancement to a widely-used userbox (through one of his socks). One could go on and on and on -- bad-faith vandalism reports, personal attacks, you name it. Raymond Arritt 16:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Zocky...look again: Very 1st edit to article on United States...[57] Rplaces "federal republic" with "Conservative Militaristic Imperial Dictatorship" in the article infobox. Repeated incivilities:[58],[59], [60], you are a stereotypical american, pro-gun, pro-war, and FASCIST. just leave the rest of the world alone and wallow in your hell hole of opppression that you call america! Vandalizing templates with insulting commentary[61]...I don't see hardly anything BUT personal attacks, disruptive editing and harassment. If that isn't enough, look at some of the contributions made by his numerous sock accounts...Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Frogsprog...such as here, editing as User:Frogbaby, he redirects one editors userpage to Murderer...[62]--MONGO 10:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the most recent page of contribs of his original account seems to contain quite some good-faith edits, including removing anti-DPRK [63] and anti-American bias [64]. He's obviously not a blatant vandal, just a difficult person. It's quite likely that talking to him would be more useful than trying to keep him off the site, which we can't really do anyway. Zocky | picture popups 11:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Nobody would have taken notice of him if he hadn't tried to harass MONGO. Once it's established that a banned sockpuppet is harassing editors, the ban should be enforced. MONGO didn't go looking for incarnations of frogspog, rather it was the other way around. --Tbeatty 15:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Complaint about JzG

JzG, in your complaint about my "unilateral removal of information at ArbCom," you have carefully avoided mentioning one inconvenient truth, as you are in the habit of doing: the information I was deleting was personal info about a Wikipedia member. As Moe said on my Talk page, posting such information is unacceptable and worthy of a block. I will also mention, in this venue, the e-mail you sent to me this morning that said, "Fuck off." If I did the same things you've been doing, I would instantly be blocked for incivility and posting personal info.

Is anybody going to do anything about this?

Furthermore, according to the logic that was used to permablock Fensteren ("no new user goes straight into dispute resolution"), both Apj-us-nyc and Eschoir should be instantly permablocked as sockpuppets.

Is anybody going to do anything about that? Dino 21:46, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I have been clerking this arbitration case. Much of the behavior on the evidence and workshop pages has veered between borderline and completely unacceptable. I have refactored the worst instances of inappropriate material being added (by various parties) and left the rest for the arbitrators to sort through, and urged all the parties to bear in mind that the evidence and workshop need to be relevant and comprehensible for the arbitrators to use to resolve the case. It would best at this point if everyone would stop editing the pages, unless absolutely necessary. Evidence inappropriate for presentation on-wiki (including but not limited to information revealing real-world identifying information) should be e-mailed directly to the arbitrators and not posted on-wiki. Newyorkbrad 21:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• With all due respect Brad, I feel that some of your conduct has been the same. You posted a spurious defamatory email from banned multiple checkuser confirmed sockpuppteer user BrianfromPalatine - who was determined through multiple RFCU's to be a serial liar about every aspect of his life including his indentity, age, location, employment, background, etc. You published this wild unbelievable screed full of spurious unfounded allegations of harassment and stalking without one bit of evidence to back them up. The documented facts are that in the 100's of posts by Bryan on Free Republic during that time frame not one claims harassment - but instead they document his own malfeasance such as bragging about being a 'long time trouble maker' on liberal boards, and even outlining a plan to infiltrate liberal discussion boards, post phony threats against conservatives, and then report those threats to the police, to benefit Free Republic! 'Dean' accused BenBurch of felonious harassment that involved the police, but when I offer to have someone get the 'police report' for verification, you delete these comments, while letting banned user 'Bryan's' 100% undocumented claims of stalking and worse, and 'Dean's' claims of felony harassment against an editor in good standing stay. Thank God that Bryan didn't claim in his email that [liberal] 'Dingoes Ate My Baby!', as I'm sure it would have been entered into 'evidence' by you, as credible, true and correct. - FaAfA (yap) 23:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I am the clerk for the arbitration case. Blocked or banned users are permitted to submit evidence by e-mail, to be either posted to the evidence page or forwarded to the arbitrators. To an extreme degree of obviousness, this does not mean that I vouched for the content of the evidence as "credible, true and correct." If you had requested at the time that I remove this evidence and forward to the arbitrators by e-mail instead, I would have considered your request. That you are raising the matter instead at this time is really extraordinary. Newyorkbrad 23:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Most of 'Bryan's' email tirade was not pertinent to the matters being Arbifatrated. I had no idea that we could request removal unless there was specfic personal attack, BLP violation or similar (my fault) and that was one reason why I challenged 'Dean's' claims of felony harassment by BenBurch - and even arranged for a friend to drive from Chicago to Palatine to get a signed statement from the police - but you deleted all that - while 'Dean's' claims of felony harassment not only stand, but get posted to 1000's of users talk pages via the Signpost. (not your fault) Your last name isn't Hinnen is it? (That's a JOKE - JUST KIDDING! ;-) - FaAfA (yap) 23:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Is there any paticualr point in posting this message here. It seems like it would be more appropriate on JzG's talk page. Viridae^Talk 22:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

But it's completely status quo for Dino's behaviour. SirFozzie 22:45, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• Of course there's a point to posting it here. We are absolutely not allowed to draw inferences from the fact that Dean Hinnen told us that Bryan is his brother. We absolutely may not infer from that that Bryan has the same surname, that would be an intolerable invasion of privacy. And most especially we may not report that external parties state that Bryan is in fact Bryan Dean Hinnen. That would be very wrong. No no no, we may not report that. It would be as bad as assuming that an editor who picks up the vendetta of a banned user from the same IP address is the same person - impossible to support. How could that be the case? It never happens. Guy (Help!) 22:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• • Ouch, that was one Catch-22. So we are not allowed to point out absurdly obvious connections without the threat of a libel lawsuit? --²¹⁰physicq (c) 23:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If information is not able to be put on a Wikipedia page it can always be given via email to the ArbCom. JoshuaZ 23:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

This case was sent to arbitration precisely because this group of editors had become an incredible resource drain on our administrators and editors—just like now. Let's end this thread here. Newyorkbrad 23:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Damn right. The case should be closed, endorsing Bryan's ban, applying the blindingly obvious, i.e. blocking Dean, and probably an article ban and civility parole for FAAFA. It has been far and away the most ill-tempered and pointless RFAR I have ever been involved in. The only real result is that I have moved from cautious distrust of Dean to outright contempt. Guy (Help!) 23:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, the first Arbitrator has weighed in and I don't yet see an endorsement of a Dino ban. I do, however, see a proposed one-year block on FAAFA. Happy to disappoint you, sir. Now then. According to the logic that was used to permablock Fensteren ("no new user goes straight into dispute resolution"), both Apj-us-nyc and Eschoir should be instantly permablocked as sockpuppets. Is anybody going to do anything about that? Dino 22:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Amazing hubris. Totally amazing. You really think you going to be vindicated by this process, don't you? --BenBurch 23:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Vindicated? Probably not 100% ... but FAAFA is going to get what he deserves, and so are you. Stalking is serious. Admitting that you were stalking me was generous. Now then. According to the Fensteren precedent, Apj-us-nyc and Eschoir are sockpuppets and should be permablocked. Is anybody going to do anything about that? Dino 01:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Quite strange, as all three parties are being dragged down the same ArbCom ban hole, you among them. And the proposed decision page is still blank, so I won't draw arrogant conclusions from nonexistent sources. And we always have a community ban bludgeon to wield at some, if those said people dare step over the line...again. We're not very kind with people who think they are more than what they are. --²¹⁰physicq (c) 01:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm going to respond to that. My entire purpose in starting an account was to remove an abysmally sourced criticism from an article about an organization that, in the time period that was described by the abysmally sourced criticism, was a one-man website run by a living person named Jim Robinson. I happened to know that the abysmally sourced criticism was a lie. It has been removed. WP:BLP has been served. Anything that I manage to achieve beyond that is pure gravy. If I'm doomed, and if I manage to drag down the two incorrigible trolls who posted it when I go, it's a fabulous fringe benefit. They have track records that make the worst goat trail in the Sudan look like the Autobahn. Wikipedia will be better off without them.

What matters to me, sir, is making Wikipedia better. Dino 02:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Hank Ramsey

I have indef blocked this user. For any admins take a look here, here and also in my delete log. User has been continually abusive and blocked on many occasions. Personal attacks galore. I feel this is the right decision as we really don't need this on Wikipedia. Any thoughts? Sasquatch t|c 01:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I would indef for this alone. — Moe 01:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, you beat me to it. I was right about to block him myself. I also had to revert some personal attacks he made about you on his talk page after you blocked him. IrishGuy ^talk 01:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright, thanks guys :-) happy editing. Sasquatch t|c 01:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Jetwave Dave re-uploading and mistagging deleted images.

Jetwave Dave (talk · contribs) seems to not understand or care about our Wikipedia:image use policy despite several attempts to point it out to him [65] [66] [67]. After attempting to delete the mistagged images speedily (he removed the tag) I took them to wikipedia copyright problems [68] where they were deleted.

Discovering they were gone - he simply reuploaded the images [69] (I speedied some of them) [70] and issued a firm warning on his talk page [71]. He has apparently ignored this and continued to upload images tagging them as GFDL see Image:Rolls Royce HMG.JPG.

He has made some useful contributions, however at this point in time his image uploading habits are making him more trouble than he's worth as a user. I would like him banned/blocked from uploading images. Megapixie 01:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've been through the recent uploads and deleted those where the claim seems false. (i.e. Obvious scans from books and newspapers). I've also left a warning on his page. --pgk 12:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Apparent mass copyright violations...

I've come across an anon editor making very large additions to a wide variety of country articles with no references. They seem to have come from FOXNews.com - from each country page. Try Western New Guinea, East Timor and Kiribati, have all had copyright material copy and pasted from [72] and other country pages on this site. Another issue is the Balance of Payments section which miraculously appears in countries as diverse as Kiribati and Libya - suggest another copy'n'paste job. I haven't found it's source, but it is unreferenced and substantial. Even if he was to reference this material, its it really what we want wikipedia to be - a mass copy and paste from FOXNews or similar? The ed appears to be continuing with this edit mode after having been warned by others on his talk page. Not sure what can be done given that it is on a large scale, and I can't chase the ed all day. I've left a message for 'him'. regards --Merbabu 01:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Did FOX get that text from CIA World Factbook originally? --BenBurch 14:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Can you find the original edit these were introduced? ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't find the source of this person's edits in a google search. The Western New Guinea edits were word for word from the Fox website, but other edits appear to be reworded a bit, although probably not enough to avoid copyright infringement. The Fox website takes about ten minutes to load each page, so checking is very laborious. I agree that the edits are not acceptable without sources, and have removed a number of them.

The three ips/accounts used so far that I know of are: 68.157.29.52 (talk · contribs), 70.152.248.166 (talk · contribs) and Longjohn3 (talk · contribs).-gadfium 20:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Cooluser607

I indef blocked this user. He was only recreating the same deleted article, and then in anger he blanked part of my talk page and then went on to blank articles I had authored. I didn't give him a final warning before the block because it looked like he was beginning a spree of deletions. If I was in error for not giving a final warning first, please feel free to unblock. Thanks for any input. IrishGuy ^talk 01:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The first warning issued by User:Hojimachong was sufficient enough considering it mentioned the blocking policy, which you never mentioned. If the blocking policy was never mentioned I would have considered one more shot, but it was. Newbies biggest mistakes are wondering, "what are they going to do about it if I do screw up their site", and thats when when unexpectedly block them :| Support indefblock. — Moe 02:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. IrishGuy ^talk 02:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Mass spamming of a survey

I have had a nessage added to my talk page asking me to take place in a survey of wikipedians. [73] Anyone knoww whats going on with this. I have blocked the user temporarily, about to ask for an explanation and refer them to this post. Viridae^Talk 02:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User unblocked. Seems legit. Still would like opinions on this however. Viridae^Talk 02:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Seems like a attempt to gain personal information when you think about it. Who offers $10 to take a survey, and how else to claim your prize if you give him your personal information. But I could just be assuming bad faith.. — Moe 02:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It's hosted on the National University of Singapore's website, not some random one, and it appears to be a legitimate research project. You can choose to have the money donated to the WMF (which is what I did), or emailed as an Amazon.com certificate to you. The only information required was your username and email. *shrug*. I've participated in a lot of university research projects, though, so maybe I'm more trusting than most. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 02:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't ask for any compromising information. Less than most surveys, in fact. I took the survey, and am pretty sure it's legit. Antandrus (talk) 02:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• We shouldn't be treating a seemingly legitimate research project with such extreme behavior; he's not spamming a pornography site or his personal blog, it's a research survey. We should be honored that people want to research us like this. — Deckiller 02:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• Yeh, your more trusting than me Bbatsell :) Sorry for assuming bad faith to whoever is sending those messages out :0 But seriously, Wikipedia isn't suppposed to be used for advertising a survey, so I would discourage his mass spamming, someone like me may get the wrong idea about it. :) — Moe 02:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Apparently only the first two hundred are getting the $10 for themselves or the Foundation and the rest just take the survey *shrug* If there was ever a time for Jimbo to have 199 sockpuppets, now would have been the time :) — Moe 02:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• I took it - maybe I'm naive, but it seemed legit., if slightly intrusive in the personal info sought. Hopefully it is legit. and the Foundation will get my $10. Metamagician3000 02:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The user in question emailed me and demonstrated how the users being "spammed" were chosen for the study. If anyone wants a copy of the email, either email me yourself (and notify me of that on my talk page - it all goes to the junk email folder) or show me how to do a show/hide box to put it in here... Either way, I am satisfied that this is legitimate. I just got a bit jumpy when I had a look at the contribs and saw the mass spamming. Viridae^Talk 02:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am the user who is soliciting for responses to this online survey. If you require more information about the study that my school is conducting, pls drop by my talk page. Once again, thanks Viridae for assuming good faith and lifting the block so quickly. --WikiInquirer 03:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)^{talk to me}

Constant and Unjustified harassment

I have been constantly attacked by three users:

• Butterrum
• Craxy

These attacks have generated from my prevalent involvement with a page and the fact that, to them, it appears as if I am being antagonistic towards them. This harassment has come in the form of constant reverts, blatant attacks, and even one user trying to conspire users against me; you can check both of the users' contributions, talk pages, and my own talk page to get a clear picture of what is going on. I implore any admins to please put a stop to this unnecessary and unconstructive harassment. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Stuck {{uw-npa4}} templates on their userpages. If they attack once more, go to WP:AIV and be sure to put the link WP:AN/I#Constant and Unjustified harassment somewhere in there so sysops can check. That said, keep away from them to avoid making the situation worse. x42bn6 Talk 03:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Very much appreciated. Thanks. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

"Attacks" appear to have subsided after I asked User:Butterrum for an instance where you were racist - and he never got back to me. In any case, comments such as "Haha, this is so ridiculous man. I'm lovin' it. Keep it up." (provocation), "Nah, I won't stay out of this, "cuz." This isn't even necessary; you and Butterrum lack the maturity to be on Wikipedia. Seeing crap like this is both funny and stupid. Oh yeah, saying stuff like "cuz" doesn't make you Black.", and more do not make any situation worth looking at. Arguments shouldn't carry on that long - simply defuse it by being civil. And if that doesn't work, there are various channels to go further upon. You are on one of them now. By the way, I'm not a sysop so if someone else could deal with this, I would appreciate it. x42bn6 Talk 15:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Pertaining to you bringing up my comments, I apologize for them; doing things like that brings me down to their level and I've decided to just flat out ignore them, if all possible, at least. It's just that his has been going on for quite a while, and it's truly "wikistressing" me out that nothing either has or can be done about it. Also, I fear Craxy may be "revving up" another verbal bombardment soon; he recently posted a message about him hearing, no doubt from Butterrum, that I called him a "retard," which is, if you don't know, totally false. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 22:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Requesting checkuser

Hello, everyone. My user page was vandalized by yet another "meatspin.com" vandal (I've been gotten this kind of vandalism several times now, one of them being on my talk page) and I think have every reason to believe that it's Oragoegrhroe (talk · contribs), Oragoegrhroeg (talk · contribs), and Bc2354234 (talk · contribs). Can someone please look into this for me? Thanks in advance. // DecaimientoPoético 03:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Requests for checkuser → thataway. Picaroon 03:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot about that. Thanks! // DecaimientoPoético 03:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Slashdotted again

Just a heads up, User talk:Jimbo Wales just got slashdotted again. There will probably be a load of troll comments over at that talk page. Here's the article. Cheers, PTO 03:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Surprise. Of. The. Century. Picaroon 03:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You're not kidding ;). Yuser31415 06:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Violation of Policy

Fyslee has made it perfectly clear on Fyslee's talk page to never use Fyslee's real name for the security of his family. An editor has revealed this person's real life name without permission or consent. Further, this editor has made dubious accusations about Fyslee, a long standing good contributor to Wikipedia. This may be blockworthy. --QuackGuru 03:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

TheDoctorIsIn (talk · contribs) has not been around for a while. I warned/asked him. Thatcher131 04:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't post it here, go get someone via email to delete it! I don't regularly read ArbCom cases (only the opening motion, whether it gets opened or not, and occasioally the final decision), and with this link I have just learned Fyslee's real name. Hbdragon88 05:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the links. Editor understands now. Time to move forward. Thanks. --QuackGuru 06:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a note - request for oversight is normally the way to go in this situation. Cheers, Yuser31415 06:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Multiple Copyvio Tag Deletion at Klima (Sporades), Greece

I'm trying to keep this article tagged as a copyvio for an admin to review, but the creator of the article keeps removing the sd tag through a registered account and an IP that only edits articles the registered account has been editing. I left escalating warnings on the registered user talk page and the IP talk page. No response other than removal of the sd templates. --Butseriouslyfolks 05:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The article has been deleted, by the looks of things. Technically this counts as vandalism after an escalating sequence of warnings, and you'd be fine taking it to WP:AIV. Yuser31415 06:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Need an admin call on spamming

User:Shadowdude55 is one of several editors that has been making mass additions of a link to www.achieve360points.com to articles on multiple video games. I believe this is being done to promote the website, which contains a great deal of advertising. The user insists on my talk page that this is not spam, and ignored my advice to take it the affected articles' talk pages. I've stopped giving spam warnings and stopped reverting the edits until I can get an admin to call this. RJASE1 ^Talk 07:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked Shadowdude55 and rolled back everything. Spamming external links in any fashion is forbidden.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

At what point would it be appropriate to request an addition to the spam blacklist? I've removed this website from at least 40-50 articles, with at least 7 or 8 editors making the additions, both IPs and new accounts. All of the editors had few or no contributions outside this spam link. Appreciate any advice...RJASE1 ^Talk 07:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am discussing this with Eagle 101 right now. He is the one who primarily maintains the blacklist these days.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

A sockpuppet of User:Shadowdude55, User:XxCAPiTAxX, is now adding the same links. Will report at AIV. RJASE1 ^Talk 08:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The spam wikiproject is a good place to cross-post these kinds of issues. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey

I know clearing out C:CSD isn't half as interesting as... a lot of other stuff, but it's packed tight right now :) – riana_dzasta 08:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Personal attack in AfD

User JoeMystical has been making personal attacks against myself.[74] I've reported this before on WP:WQA, but exactly nothing happened... so I'm reporting the case again here. Bi 08:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Those aren't personal attacks, but are rather incivil comments. --²¹⁰physicq (c) 08:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, whatever. Someone please just do something about these uncivil comments and JoeMystical. Bi 08:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Please? Bi 08:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

What, you want revenge or something? Those comments were made days ago and as far as I can see haven't continued. Yes, incivility is a violation of the rules... but the best advice I can give you for a one-time incident like this is to let it go. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Not even so much as a warning? Is that "revenge" too? And no, it's definitely not a "one-time incident": JoeMystical had done this before, and he was even warned on his talk page. Bi 17:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Repeated Vandalism by user 24.22.153.228

User 24.22.153.228 has decided to continue with his erroneous track, despite having his own information included that is the cause of this dispute. Here is an example. This particular edit has occured many times despite consensus by the majority of editors that this version is less informative. Additionally, he has been less than civil in the discussions of this edit as evidenced by his talk page. Veritas Panther 08:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Sproxsox

This user's first edit is removing a lot of content and adding nonsense on WP:NC [75]-- and since his name seemed to convey "proxy" and "sox" I wonder if he might be related to any previous vandals.--Samuel Curtis^{Shinichian-Hirokian}-- _{TALK·CONTRIBS} 08:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Brain Peppers (talk · contribs) blocked indefinitely

Given Brain Peppers (talk · contribs)' recent edit history, username, and time of account creation, I have blocked this user indefinitely. He has been trolling on a few Essjay-related pages as of late, and obviously his username resembles Brian Peppers (not sure how this wasn't usernameblocked before). However, there seem to be good edits in the history, so I'm putting this up for review. --Coredesat 09:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I see no reason as to why he was not blocked because of his user name (he appeared two days before "Brian Peppers Day"?). The claims that he will "take the place as Wikipedia's pseudo academic" are obvious attacks at Essjay. It's like he was studying up to troll. I endorse your block.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 09:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• uncyclopedia:Brain Peppers —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-03-04 09:46Z

  Hmm. Well, I misread his username, but his registration date (February 19 2007) precedes our "infamous" "Brian Peppers Day."—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 09:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Allowable picture on Jake Gyllenhaal?

Someone has just replaced the previous public domain photo with another one from Flickr that says "some rights reserved". Well, I went to check what rights were reserved here, and it seems that non-commercial use is banned. I vaguely remember Mindspillage delivering a message a while back from the foundation about how restricted commercial use images shouldn't be used, so wanted to ask what I should do. Is it acceptable or not? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 11:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Non-commercial use is not allowed, see {{db-noncom}}. Also, this reminds me of a banned user with an obsession about Jake G but I can't put my finger on it. Thatcher131 13:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Spock's brain? Or JordanJames? :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll go tag it now. Pity, it's a good picture. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It was also mis-tagged as cc-by-2.0 when it is clearly {{cc-by-nc-2.0}} . Thatcher131 13:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Kid Sonic

• Since WP:PAIN doesn't exist anymore, I couldn't think of another place to post this (I'm not an admin), so if this is the wrong place point me in the right direction. I removed a childish attack against me and other editors from the user page of Kid Sonic (talk · contribs), whom with I have had several disputes, and left an npa3 message on his talk page. It looks like a clear violation of WP:NPA to me, but since I was the main target of the attack (but not the only one), maybe I jumped the gun? I seek an admin to review my actions. Thanks. JuJube 12:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Personally, I'm wondering if that collection of random links at the bottom of the page is allowed; especially that set of porn site links. Doesn't strike me as being very encyclopedia-related. WarpstarRider 12:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I suspect rather strongly that Kid Sonic is a sock of Myalysk (talk · contribs) based on another tidbit from his user page which refers to an article whose AfD Myalysk was blocked for. JuJube 13:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Put on WP:SSP? Bi 13:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Very similar contribution patterns, too....I wouldn't doubt it. WarpstarRider 14:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
      • And registered a couple of days after Myalysk was blocked, picking up on exactly the same articles. Too old for Checkuser, but pointless anyway since it is indeed blindingly obvious. However, Myalysk was only blocked for a week, so only five days of block evasion, and that several months back. Guy (Help!) 16:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Attack on Talk:Essjay

The whole mess on Essjay has moved to the article talkpage where Arcticdawg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) calls for Essjays blocking and Chacor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) revert the entries as they are not within the scope of the article talkpage as an attack on the object of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agathoclea (talk • contribs) 12:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Uh, this happened on User talk:Essjay, and someone else has reported Arcticdawg at AIV. Essjay has left. It's over. The page needs to be protected. – Chacor 12:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well he also included those comments on the article page and got reverted, but not by you. Agathoclea 12:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Articdawh has now taken his campaign to User talk:Jimbo Wales. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have now blocked for disruption - please review. Agathoclea 12:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Based on this edit, I'd suggest actually lengthening the block. It's block evasion, firstly, and also, anyone who did that knowingly would probably be blocked indef. – Chacor 12:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

(Insert) I think far too early for indef - tempers will cool - other matters will be more important and it seems out of character for the user. Agathoclea 13:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I blocked 67.71.152.118 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) as well for blockevation - please review. Agathoclea 12:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Even if it isn't someone evading a block, that block is clearly justified. – Steel 13:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Strange edits by User:AndrewLovesComputing

I have indef-blocked AndrewLovesComputing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for vandalism. While going through his edits, I found some really strange edits. For example see [76], [77], [78]. In some edits, the user makes strange allegations and then adds the citation needed tag himself. Some of the material may cause harm to wikipedia if the media comes across them. I am posting this matter here in case some other account also tries to add such material into articles. So keep your eyes open. And yes, I caught the user vandalising templates. So he may not be completely new to wikipedia. I have also protected his page as he was vandalising it. - Aksi_great (talk) 16:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• I've gone through all of his contributions and they seem to have all been reverted, so it looks like we're in the clear.--VectorPotential^Talk 17:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Request (temporary) block against user:Tulkolahten

This user has been harassing me on Wikipedia, making accusations against me, and being overly uncivil against me. I request that either an admin intervene and please request that he stop, or block him. He has been following me to other articles, and making (weak) personal attacks against me that don't even really make sense in those article discussion pages. He also shows a strong tendency towards avoiding compromise and has refused and rejected my attempts to mediate with him.

My Talk Page

[[79]]

[[80]]

[[81]]

Karlovy Vary Discussion Page

[[82]]

[[83]]

[[84]]

[[85]]

[[86]]

User:Piotrus' Talk Page

User_talk:Piotrus#EN_nomenclature

User:Rex Germanus' Talk Page

User_talk:Rex_Germanus#Renaming_articles

I've asked him to stop here, and he refused here.

Antman -- chat 17:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Need a spam ruling from an admin

Could someone make the call where links to Tiny Mix Tapes are spam? User:Mangle is adding this link to a large number of pages, but argues it's a legitimate review site. The site does contain a lot of advertising. RJASE1 ^Talk 18:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Has no obvious authority, so why would anyone link it anyway? Guy (Help!) 18:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• I'm not entirely sure why being an admin asserts any more authority over the subject at hand than a regular editor, but I would say it's spam. It doesn't have any authority; it's just like Purevolume links: they're there to be there. Shadow1 (talk) 18:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• You may find the relevant guideline useful. --Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The site does not contain a lot of advertising. It now has three banners, but, before that, the site operated for several years with absolutely no ads whatsoever. And, it should be noted, the ads in question are music related (it's a music journalism website). It should also be noted that Popmatters and Pitchfork contain far more ads than three. I only added links to tinymixtapes in the "professional reviews" catagory for albums, as the reviews on TMT are the hallmark of professional. I never just spam linked the basic site link. I only provided relevant content to specific albums. I deeply object to the association of Tiny Mix Tapes as spam. It is a professional music journalism website and should be allowed to be mentioned along side other professional reviews.--Mangle 20:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The above editor has admitted to a conflict of interest but fails to see how that should matter. He seems to think that since he linked to individual pages all over as opposed to the main page of the website, that somehow makes it not spam. I happen to disagree. IrishGuy ^talk 20:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an editor for tinymixtapes, or any publication for that matter. And I fail to see how adding professional reviews under the professional reviews catagory is spamming. IF you don't want people to post professional reviews, don't have a professional reviews catagory in albums.--Mangle 20:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Mangle, the problem I have with linking to Tiny Mix Tapes is that you haven't shown it to be a notable web site, in accordance with our policies. I looked into it a bit, and couldn't find anything to change my mind. You can read our web site notability guidelines here. While that is specifically for articles about websites, in my mind it would also apply to external links of this type. If someone wrote a review of an album on a blogspot blog and linked to it in an album's infobox here, I think we'd all agree that most editors would object to including it. In the absence of evidence that Tiny Mix Tapes is a notable or respected website providing reviews, it should be treated the same way, I'm afraid. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 22:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Earlier, he got blocked for spamming. I ended up pulling out about 120 links by Mangle dating back to December. Pretty much all his edits here have been to insert those links into articles. As far as I am concerned, that is the definition of spam even if the site had some notability to it. IrishGuy ^talk 02:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Massive Attacks On Wiktionary and Wikispecies connected to Essjay?

Hello, I am an editor over on Wiktionary. In the past few moments, both Wiktionary and Wikispecies have been hit by MASSIVE automated attacks coming in through numerous IPs. All the attacks replace a random page with "ESSJAY'S REVENGE" numerous times, and do the same to the edit summery. So far, there has to have been about 1000 attacks in numerous waves. I would like to see what the Wikipedia community thinks of this and warn them in case it happens here. Good day all.

Wiktionary Attacks

Wikispecies Attacks

WIKTIONARY REP 19:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

We could just do a range block on those IPs unless someone sees a reason not to --BigDT 19:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I C&P-ed some of the IP addies and a couple have had brief spates of vandalism here over the past 2 months or so. I'd support a short range block.

• [87]
• [88]Dina 19:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

These two are open proxy outproxies. If you test 216.163.188.40:80 you will see outproxies in that range (I already managed to get .200 and .203). The range is .200-.230 according to rDNS; I will do a range block soon. --cesarb 20:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I briefly investigated doing the block myself and realized that it was beyond me. Good work. Dina 20:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

199.64.0.252

This user seems way overdue a block, the number of times the user has offended over such a long period, this user should surely face a short block Willow177 20:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

99.64.0.252 (talk · contribs) has no contributions. Are you looking for someone else? --BigDT 20:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:199.64.0.252. Sorry, typo Willow177 20:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Falsifying copyright info, OTRS info

In this section, I am not using the term, "fraudulent", in any legal sense. I believe it is the best description of the actions described. Prince Godfather (talk · contribs), after being blocked several times before for copyright violations, was caught placing false OTRS permission information on the following images:

• Image:Rajini in spain.jpg
• Image:252157716 887607f66c.jpg
• Image:Vijaytamil.jpg

Given this user's history and given that there are numerous other images with either dubious or obviously deliberately fraudulent information (for example, Image:Shriyanew.JPG has a fraudulent email exchange copy-and-pasted and slightly edited from Image:Asinthottumkal.JPG), I have blocked this user indefinitely and plan on deleting all image uploads from this user. Given that we know we cannot trust the information this user provides, I believe it is safest for Wikipedia simply to ditch all the images.

I am sorry to have to have taken these steps but in my opinion, the actions of this user have placed the Wikipedia in danger. I welcome any constructive comments about this situation. --Yamla 20:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• I support this move. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 20:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• Yep, absolutely. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Good block. Jkelly 20:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, that's the second time I've seen this. Please block aggressively for this sort of activity; it's wilfully and deliberately malicious. Shimgray | talk | 21:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Total support. -- Nick ^t 22:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

As a photographer myself I appreciate your aggressive pursuit of copyright issues. Just a comment here, when I give permission to use my artwork, I send one of half-a-dozen form responses, and I send them from various names/websites, depending upon where the request originated. However, it appears you have handled this correctly by contacting the sites, rather than making an assumption, and erring towards deletion (they can be uploaded again if necessary). In the end, though, it doesn't matter, the user had already been banned from editing Wikipedia under another name. Again, I do appreciate your working to honor others' copyright by deleting all of the images uploaded by this user. People think a camera makes everyone a photographer, so pictures on the Internet are up for grabs--neither assumption should be part of Wikipedia. KP Botany 22:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks and claims of COI

A small set of editors have been making an increasing number of personal attacks on me, claiming that I have some sort of unspecific conflict of interest, and that they therefore can revert my edits. Most recently I have even been called a "POV pusher" (with a conflict of interest) in an edit summary. [89] This follows on the heels of similar accusations from a small number of editors. [90] [91] I'm a fairly patient editor, but this constant abuse of the WP:COI guidelines as a way of violating WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF really needs to stop. If you throw enough mud, some of it eventually sticks, so I'm going to nip this process in the bud by applying educational blocks to editors who falsely claim WP:COI in the future. Just letting everyone know. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I wonder what they think the "conflict of interest" is based on. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 20:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I personally have no idea, but COI has been the "new sexy policy" editors have been trying to enforce. I have no idea when it first started, but I did see some applications of it around December of last year. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 21:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It's obvious. Jayjg is passionate about improving Wikipedia , yet he none the less edits it in a direct conflict of interest. You can't edit what you deeply care about and for him this includes all of Wikipedia. For shame Jayjg. WAS 4.250 21:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You make a good point, and yet I am unrepentant. ;-) Jayjg ^(talk) 21:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely nonsense. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk)

Anyone can have an area of expertise and should certainly edit in those areas as long as they follow Wikipedia policy. Should Colonel Saunders be editing the Kentucky Fried Chicken page? No. Is this the same thing? No. Elizmr 21:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, if Colonel Sanders turns up to edit from the grave, we should consider letting him since I'm not sure he'd be violating COI either being that he is no longer in a position to benefit financially or otherwise. --MPerel ^{( talk | contrib)} 22:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You're going to block people who you are in a conflict with? Isn't that, you know, a conflict of interest? Hbdragon88 22:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

COI occurs when making an article biased would lead to personal gain (e.g. money for some quackery treatment, votes for politicians). I cannot see how Jayjg editing the Ahmedinejad article would achieve that. JFW | T@lk 22:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hbdragon was using "conflict of interest" in a manner different from WP:COI; he was using it as a way of pointing out Wikipedia's policy that you do not use administrative functions on editors with whom you are in conflict. You ask others to investigate and take appropriate action. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 22:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The elephant in the room is that it's obvious that Jay's supposed "conflict of interest" is that he is Jewish. Jay is an editor, not an ethnicity, and trolls other editors who can't or won't make that distinction need such "educational blocks" in order to make that perfectly clear. <<-armon->> 00:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

More nonsense from Gerash. Not surprising seeing as he called me a racist on this very noticeboard for noting that Iran does not play cricket, as well as accusing me of perpetrating "Zioattacks". In any case, by Gerash's reasoning, he may be in CoI himself on the MA article. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, this attacking of good editors making good edits under the guise of WP:COI seems to be a violation of WP:CIVIL and [[WP:AGF]. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 02:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:OWN and a wikiproject about to get nasty

I've been watching the debate here to see if it is suitable for the project to have a co-ordinator (who if you look at the history seems to be have just appointed himself after minimum consultancy and many people saying the post was unrequired). As a wikipedian of good standing, I wished to comment about the matter. However it seems that I don't have the right to do so according to a sole editor (not the same person as the co-ordinator). My position on this is very clear, all wikiprojects by their very nature should be inclusive - any attempt to say that wikipedians of good standing cannot imput into their development of a project that affects the community should be stamped on and stamped on hard. Projects do not exist outside of the regular norms of the community and should not be allowed to try and enforce guidelines that are not in line with the rest of the community.

I can see that this is about to get nasty and see the good ship HMS revertwar appearing on the horizon, can an admin pop across and have a look. --Fredrick day 20:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have seen more and more cases of Wikprojects trying to OWN articles. This needs to be addressed and stopped. Corvus cornix 21:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

For the record, this isn't about a WP trying to own an article, it's about a user (allegedly) trying to own a WP. I do agree with your point, but it's not entirely relevant here :) —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 22:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

New York City

User:Ricardocolombia is putting the {{copyvio}} template on top of the New York City article, alledging This article is full of copyvio's from three books: "I love NYC", "New York New York" and "The great apple" (1) I take copyright violations extremely seriously, but this article has been edited extensively by Wikipedians for a long time and I'm skeptical of such allegations (2) I searched on Amazon and Google Books and can't find any book called The Great Apple (3) I searched excerpts of the article on Google Books and found nothing (4) it's always possible that a book or website took text from Wikipedia and not the other way around. I have reverted three times, asking the user to discuss on the talk page and provide specifics. He refuses to do so. --Aude (talk) 22:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

If he refuses to discuss it, he's not helping anything. I find it odd the books don't appear to exist either. Majorly _{(o rly?)} 22:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

His messages on my talk page pretty much amount to legal threats. --Aude (talk) 22:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Not really; he's saying he'll "file a report" with WMF, not that he'll sue them/you (and he would have no standing to sue, obviously). He's behaving incredibly inappropriately, but he hasn't made a LT. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 23:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ask for page numbers from the books, and publication info (date, publisher, author, year) so that someone with a good library can verify. If he doesn't have the info, we can't pursue this as we are not mind readers. Thatcher131 23:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

He has stopped for now. We have asked for that information, but he isn't responding. I'm not the least bit concerned about the threats, but help watching the page would be appreciated. --Aude (talk) 23:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Someone blocked him. The situation is moot for now. --Aude (talk) 23:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocks for personal attacks

Am I confused? I know that blocking people for isolated personal attacks is not a proper action. But when somebody develops a pattern of personal attacks, and has been warned, and warned again, and warned about being block for it, then keeps doing it, surely a block is warranted? Am I missing something? I have been getting grief over 2 blocks I did today, both people had multiple warnings about personal attacks, and continued to do it. I just don't understand what I have done wrong here. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

(copied from a thread higher on the page to centralize discussion here:) I see that HighInBC has now also blocked Dbuckner for 24 hours for personal attacks made in the above thread and continuing on Dbuckner's userpage. The user has argued against the block but has not posted an unblock request to date, and has instead e-mailed the blocking administrator. I find much of the language of Dbuckner's comments to be highly unnecessary, but am troubled by the concept of blocking a serious content contributor based in part on comments made in response to an administrator's comments on the user's own userpage. I post the matter here for comment. Newyorkbrad 23:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

HighInBC, I don't think anyone is defending personal attacks. The questions are, what constitutes a personal attack, and what constitutes a blockable personal attack. I do not endorse, by any means, all the language used and comments made by the two users you blocked today. But we administrators are supposed to have thicker skins sometimes; and comments made in the context of discussing administrator actions, or on a user's own talkpage in response to an admin's comments there, may deserve a bit more leeway than might otherwise obtain. I would have strongly deprecated the comments made today, but I would have walked away rather than block for them. Of course these are often judgment calls. Newyorkbrad 23:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, here is the course of actions leading to the short block I gave: (from my original block message)"By contrast, the one called Inshane specialises in inane puerile drivel". You made a personal attack this morning[92], I warned you about personal attacks[93], you made another personal attack[94], then I had to warn you again[95], now you have made yet another personal attack[96], and I have blocked you for it[97] for 24 hours. Please do not engage in personal attacks once this block has expired. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I see somebody insulting people all day long, and not responding to warnings, then getting blocked for it. The block was preventative because I had every reason to believe he would continue. My skin is plenty thick and I never got angry, this was simply me enforcing policy. I do not think that "the situation" justifies personal attacks, any situation. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we should rename Wikipedia:No personal attacks to Wikipedia:Only a few personal attacks, as long as they are not too bad. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

First, I agree that thicker skins are needed. If I blocked everyone who got annoyed and used inappropriate language, half the editors on Wikipedia would be blocked.

Secondly, the incideents in question were on places like the editor's own Talk page and WP:AN/I; that's surely much less important than if they were made on article Talk pages, or even on another editor's Talk page. In other words, did it really matter to Wikipedia if he continued? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

What? Personal attacks are okay in certain places? All I can do is read the policy and follow it, how do I learn these unwritten rules about talk pages being exempt from NPA? To answer you question, yes it matters, slinging insults drives away editors, and creates a hostile atmosphere. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

(ec)If this is about judgment calls, the please respect my judgment. But if I have gone against some sort of well established rule please point it out and I will repent. As far as I know if a user has a full set of NPA warnings then a NPA block is justified if the user continues. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

So, if you hadn't blocked, someone might have given up on Wikipedia in disgust, but because you did.... 81.179.115.188 23:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know where you get your info I am not giving up anything. Yes, someone might leave if they keep getting insulted. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

A personal attack is a personal attack. Experienced editors should know better, and Dbuckner didn't seem to even consider backing off when he was asked to do so. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 23:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Being called pompous is not necessarily a personal attack. Like I said on Dbuckner's talk page, that was his opinion of you and, yes, you did have an attitude, even to me. You say that you are a laid back person, yet, I haven't seen that once today. If everyone got blocked for calling someone a name, 75% of editors would be blocked every day. "Sticks and stones man......" MetsFan76 23:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

If that were the only comment, it would of course not warrant blocking. I count three or more others though, despite requests to cut them out. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 23:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be under the illusion that I took it personally. It is just me enforcing policy. What I take personally is the accusation that I had some sort of childish motive. I would not tolerate that behavior from a new user, why should I take it from an established user who knows better. Even if calling me pompous is not an attack calling a bunch of editors fuckwits is, and that was the first final warning I gave him. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You say to him "Don't call me names." That sounds personal to me. If someone called me a name, I would look at the person and feel pity as he/she needs to stoop to a low intelligence level. And again, I don't think being called pompous is so bad. You gave me an attitude as well on his talk page. MetsFan76 23:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It would be personal, if a) I cared, and b) it was not against policy. The fact is a) it didn't hurt my feelings, b) it is against policy. For god sake, I have been enforcing the NPA policy for months, and I have never had a complaint. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

HighInBC, don't worry about it. Everyone has different standards for when repeated personal attacks reach the level of blockable disruption... and for far too many people those standards seem largely dependent on who the person is and who they are insulting. At 'worst' you applied a strict standard for civility - while adhering to that standard yourself despite considerable provocation. Hardly worthy of condemnation, though varying degrees of 'disagreement' are inevitable. Worldtraveller, Dbuckner, Giano II, and even MetsFan76 have clearly engaged in insults over this issue and ought to cut it out. If they continue you can always ask another admin to step in to spare yourself yet more attacks for stopping their bad behaviour. --CBD 23:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I was trying to take a Wikibreak when this issue came up. I just want to assure people that I am acting out of policy and not the petty motives being attributed to me. Goodbye, I will see you all at a later time, not sure when. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

CDB, can you provide diffs as to where I have insulted someone today please? I don't think you are in any position to tell me to "cut it out" as I have not once insulted anyone today. MetsFan76 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

If you honestly believe that calling HighInBC "pompous" and suggesting that he was acting under the influence of drugs were not insults we will have to disagree. --CBD 23:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

HighinBC was acting like a child because someone called him a name. As an admin, he should have a "thicker hide" and set a better example. In terms of him being under the influence of drugs, I got that directly from his user page which has now been conveniently blanked. MetsFan76 23:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

CDB, I am still waiting for my diffs. If you are going to make an accusation like that, I would like you to provide evidence that I have insulted anyone today. MetsFan76 23:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Add "acting like a child" to the list of insults you supposedly haven't made today. No, his user page did not say that he blocked Dbuckner because he was drug addled... that was all you, 'extrapolating' from his pro-marijuana comments. As to diffs... I provided a diff for the drugs comment and the other two insults were made (or repeated) by you right here in this thread. Surely you can find the statements on this page where you said it was ok to call him pompous and that he was acting like a child.

Yes, admins should have thick hides. No, that doesn't mean a bunch of users can get together and insult them with impunity. Just discuss things in a civil fashion without the insults. --CBD 00:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You just insulted me right then. I told you why I took those actions, I told you I was not upset at the name calling, I told you the block was based on policy. Then you say "HighinBC was acting like a child because someone called him a name.", I don't think you know what a personal attack is. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 23:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I insulted you?? And yes, he was acting like a child. I find it very immature that he blocks two people today and then goes on a wikibreak. That is not very responsible at all. If he can't handle criticism, then maybe he is in the wrong business here. MetsFan76 00:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Responding to repeatedly being called a "fuckwit" with a mild warning about personal attacks IS 'handling criticism' fairly well. As is the way he has dealt with your repeated insults. Eventually blocking when the incivility went on and on is a debatable matter, but I don't think there can be any question that HighInBC has remained considerably more civil than various of his detractors. Including you. At least, I haven't seen him calling you "immature". --CBD 00:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course he isn't going to call me immature, I haven't acted as such. My problem was that WT decided to leave hours ago, yet, you continued to pursue the matter by not dropping it. I'm sorry but that doesn't say much about you when the issue has already been dealt with. MetsFan76 00:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

WT posted to this thread just a short while ago (as an anon) and people have continued to complain in the discussion you falsely claim was dealt with and dropped. Basically, this spiel you keep repeating about how 'everyone has dropped it and you keep dragging it out' just isn't true. You, amongst several others, certainly haven't dropped it. If you believe that 'saying nothing is the best course' you could try following it yourself. --CBD 00:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

CBD, do you see what you just did? This is one of the problems on Wikipedia and why someone like Worldtraveller wrote an article such as WP:FAIL. People here sometimes are too quick to get their thoughts down that they don't bother to read what other people have written. If you scrolled all the way down, you will see that me, Giano and HighinBC have resolved our dispute. In fact, HighinBC sent me a personal email which I greatly appreciated. What you just did was why some editors resort to personal attacks. The issue here has been dropped yet, you have continued it. You are doing it now and you did it before with WT. You push people to the point where they are going to resort to harsh words. It seems as if you would rather not has this resolved but continue going back and forth with mindless drivel. If you do not have anything constructive to say in this matter (which has been resolved) then I suggest you back off. If, however, you are looking to start something with me, feel free to email me as I do not think any further discussion here is necessary. If your prefer not to, then I am done talking to you. MetsFan76 00:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I am going on wikibreak for unrelated reasons. I am taking time off my wikibreak to deal with this, how is that immature? I think you simply disagree with me so you are calling me childish. Stop calling me names, or anyone else for that matter, it is against our WP:NPA policy. If you need insults to make your point, perhaps you should rethink it. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 00:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually I don't need insults at all. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all. Try it sometime. Enjoy your break. MetsFan76 00:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the two of you have made your points and it would be good to have some other input on this issue. HighInBC, you should know that your work here is valued even by some of us who might disagree with a particular block. Newyorkbrad 00:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Brad - as astute as ever. Can I just say this is becoming a little farcical were it not for one of Wikipedia's finest editors leaving. CBDunkerson and HighinBC are begining to sound like Laurel and Hardy why don't they just unblock everybody, you and I will try to pursuade World that they were just inexperienced and to come back, then we can all have a nice cup of tea and get over it. Giano 00:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. And I will apologize if anyone has felt insulted by me today. I would like to help persuading World to come back as well. As for that tea, can I have a shot of scotch with mine because I need it. =) MetsFan76 00:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

No we want no hard liquor or noxious substances on a Sunday. Giano 00:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I will take a rain check for tommorow =) MetsFan76 00:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I gladly except your apologies, I have tried to urge Worldtraveller to come back earlier today[98], his response was not promising[99]. ^HighInBC ^{(Need help? Ask me)} 00:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

It's probably best if you didn't try again. Me and Giano will handle it. MetsFan76 00:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed! Don't you worry about in HighInBC, we'll handle it Giano 00:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Parker007 (talk · contribs) trolling? WP:POINT?

Parker007 (talk · contribs) has made several odd, somewhat disruptive edits: S/He has nominated the Misc ref desk for deletion Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#Proposal_to_remove_Misc_desk_.40_Village_Pump and s/he's inviting editors to oppose her/his RfA. [100] [101] Looks like WP:POINT to me (making an unpopular move in order to garner oppose votes). I don't know if any action should be taken. Anchoress 23:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I recall Parker going on a WP:POINT spree a month ago when I deleted something of his as redundant, so this isn't a new thing for him. – Steel 23:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

What's the current consensus on snowballing failing RfA's? His is at 1/11/0 at the moment. Newyorkbrad 23:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Never mind SNOW; if the applicant is actively campaigning against promotion, it's a bad-faith (self)-nom. Anchoress 23:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I delisted and closed it. Trebor 23:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• There was (is? my killfile does not tell me) a troll called "Parker Peters" on WikiEN-l for some time who claimed, without much credibility, to be an admin. I wonder if this is related? Guy (Help!) 23:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Had this hunch after my last contact with him, but he wasn't doing anything disruptive at the time; maybe time to see if that blip on the troll radar is the real thing. Opabinia regalis 02:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Cman (talk · contribs) owning talk page, civility issues

Please see his talk page User_talk:Cman. He owns it and erases an ongoing discussion to which three users contributed, and his message at the top clearly demonstrates an attempt to uncivily own the page.--Crossmr 23:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like the person should take their own advice. Xiner (talk, email) 23:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't see a WP:GETAGIRLFRIEND article, nor are we in the business of helping with that, so perhaps we should address this another way? :) --Crossmr 23:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well to quote Waylon Smithers, women and Cman don't mix. Anchoress 23:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

B2bomber81 (talk · contribs)

• B2bomber81 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Abuse of power, intimidation of new user including baseless accusations and harrassment. --Memejojo 23:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

  — Memejojo (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Tuxide 23:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you provide some diffs please?--Crossmr 23:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your message at User talk:B2bomber81 and User talk:Tuxide, please be reminded that only administrators can impose cooling off periods. Aecis^Brievenbus 23:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment Memejojo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is just a strange user in general—I don't mean to personally attack him, but he is new (assuming he's not a sockpuppet) and I don't understand his actions. He undoes WP:MOSHEAD edits on Best Buy claiming it's vandalism [102], edits others comments on his own talk page claiming that they slow down the server [103], and then decides to impose a 24 hour cooling off period on me and User:B2bomber81 [104] [105]. His account isn't even 24 hours old, and he can't even spell harassment correctly. Any advice on how B2bomber81 and I should deal with him would be appreciated. I was going to bring this up on WP:WQA but now that he's gone here I'll let it resolve on this board. Regards, Tuxide 00:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I see on his user talk page that he's being suspected of being a Momoj (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) sock. Aecis^Brievenbus 00:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

All the evidence for harrassment is there for the public to see. The cooling off period is requested in order to allow the new user to participate in peace with the Wikipedia community. The above user Tuxide seeks to make inflammatory statements however there is no evidence that the user is "strange." That would be personal opinion however it is not personal opinion that harrassment and vandalism of a user's, that is fact. This is the forum to resolve this not on content pages and we are all grateful that the users in question can be civil about this. Thanks and good luck. --Memejojo 00:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I would like to make the suggestion that Tuxide refrain from editing posts from other user by adding the small font mini signature that targets specific users. This is clearly intimidation and harrassment and it is surprising to some degree that it continues here on the administrators page. Besides the user in dispute is B2bomber81 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) but I respect and encourage any users making productive comments regarding this issue. --Memejojo 00:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Use of the {{spa}} template is common procedure in cases like this, and like Tuxide I feel that it is appropriate here. Aecis^Brievenbus 00:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

To state that new users have contributed to 1 article. Well isn't that something to be expected. How can one write more if they are dealing with harassment? Let's have some guidance about that from more admins. It is a healthy conversation to have and I am willing to spend as many months as it takes to resolve these issues as long as all involved also communicate in this forum in good faith. Thanks and good luck. --Memejojo 00:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I referred to Memejojo as a new user based on his creation log, not based on his count log. However, I don't believe that this user is new to wikipedia. I do suspect that he is a sockpuppet of blocked users Momoj and Jomomm (verified sockpuppets). My basis for this suspicion? Firstly, their names are quite similar. Secondly, Memejojo being a "new member" immediately started flaming other editors for editing his contribution to the Best Buy page. He repeated infers ownership of the article by "daring" anyone to make changes to his contributions without permission, or simply reverts the edits. I have already submitted a checkuser request for this user to determine if it is indeed a sockpuppet or not.

His last contribution included a biased comment that I requested be left out. He refused, and so I removed his contribution, asking that he refrain from reintroducing to the article until there was a consensus on the content of his contribution. I suggested he could either agree to leave his opinions out of the article or find a reliable source for his claims. I will note that Tuxide also recommended that an alternate source be used. Memejojo responded with another revert and said there is no lack of consensus.

Lastly, as Tuxide eluded to, this user is just plain strange. He refers to himself in a third person almost as if he is actually representing several people, as well as falsely representing himself as an administrator. At one point he tried to verbally impose a 24-hour cool off period on me until Tuxide reminded him that he was not an admin. He has also taken it upon himself to edit other users talk pages to remove threads that he feels aren't appropriate in his opinion. I appreciate the admins taking the time to look into this matter. B2bomber81 02:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Soap made from human corpses

HanzoHattori (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has blanked Soap made from human corpses and reposted the article at Jewish soap legend. An administrator will be needed to fix this cut-and-paste move. (I don't know which title is more appropriate, or why HanzoHattori attempted this move to begin with.) —Psychonaut 23:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Fixed, though it wasn't really a cut and paste move, but rather a normal move followed by a cut and paste revert. I've left it at Soap made from human corpses. Jewish soap legend gives the incorrect impression that this is an urban legend that is Jewish in origin or that it only concerned Jewish victims. A quick Google also shows that "Jewish soap legend" seems to be a term mainly used among neo-Nazies. - SimonP 00:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Dr who1975 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

This user is making highly suspicious edits. Could someone help in correcting this vandalism? Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 00:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

"If in doubt, kick em out". Thats what an old administrator friend of mine used to say.Chaaaz 00:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I was simply trying to correct some misleading information within wikipeaid. The merge pages said to "be bold". Since I have met with such resistence... I will stop now. This was not vandalism. btw.. take a look at the pages he's talking about... who here is really guilty of vandalism. I will make sure to go through the proper channels now. --Dr who1975 00:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Well that was a little crude. Ever hear of AGF or giving someone a second chance?TALL TALL Mikey!!! 00:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The above message was directed to Chaaaz.Sorry about the confusing edit,Dr Who.TALL TALL Mikey!!! 00:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes.. I know. Thansk for the support. Clearly I'm going to have to go through the proper wiki channels on this one. There is a "movement" here.--Dr who1975 01:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

In situations such as this one, I always ask myself how they would settle it on Star Trek.SpecialCharlie 00:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Grr..Another Star Trek fan. Im overrun by these clowns at work, and now they gotta get me goin on Wiki. Signed,G.I.H.S.T. 00:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)! G'head, ask me what it stands for.

Um, hello sockpuppetry, all but two of the above users made their first and only edits to this page--VectorPotential^Talk 02:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Kathryn NicDhàna (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

I want to report the above named user who is shadowing me on WP. The situation has arisen from my edits on Template:Celtic_mythology, where I believed that ambiguity was introduced into the template by another editor. The above editor got involved, and is I fear that this reverting is the outset of a campaign to shadow me and revert my edits on WP. The 2 edits that I am most concerned about are [106], and [107]. I can see this disruption to my edits continuing. I hope this will not continue. Manopingo 02:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The editor you're concerned about, Kathryn NicDhàna, made the right call regarding the two Diffs you linked to. Your addition was unclear, unsourced, and worded awkwardly. ThuranX 02:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Edit summary on the first could have been more descriptive, but it is good editing. There's a note at the bottom of every edit page that says "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.", and we really do mean it. Jkelly 02:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Also please don't use the word vandalism when referring to a content dispute. Wikipedia:Vandalism has a specific meaning, and it isn't appropriate to use it to refer to good-faith edits. Jkelly 02:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment, she used the word first. Manopingo 02:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Accept your call on the edits. None of the article is cited. My point is that she is shadowing. This sort of the sort of tactic can hurt the WP project, and create hostility. I would hope that you could see my substantive point. Manopingo 02:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You've already been particularly patronising with the editor in question on her talk page [108] [109], so there's some history there. Your edits which you mention above did not have sufficient information ("add llnk" - it was a lot more than just that, and you gave no justification whatsoever). You've also accused her repeatedly of vandalism, esp. "structured vandalism" which I think is more than a bit unfair. *And* you've been complaining about her edits on WP:IWNB [110] so just who exactly is shadowing who here? - Alison^☺ 02:48, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I stand by all my edits, and I apologies I defended my edits too strongly. My concern is for the WP project. I have noticed a lot of hostility creeping into the project since I have returned after nine months absence. 'Shadowing is a form of hostility. Manopingo 02:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Gene Poole (talk · contribs)

• Gene Poole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Intimidation of new user including baseless accusations [111] and harrassment of another user at Talk:Space music [112]. --Doktor Who 02:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

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