I am nominating this for featured list because I want the lists of Montanans to be as good as possible. Thanks for the reviews. PumpkinSkytalk 13:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Love the idea of this list, but there's way too much uncited content at the present time. A lot of work needs to be done here before this will be ready for the star.
"Phil Jackson is a basketball player and coach who is considered one of the Top 10 Coaches in National Basketball Association History." I would change "who is considered" to "who has been voted" to take away attribution concerns that come with the word "considered" (by whom is always the question). It also helps the capitalization make more sense. The table notes contain something like this as well.
Done.
Don't see any reason why Rodeo should be capitalized in the next sentence.
Done.
Remove space before reference 11.
Done.
No need to link Pro Bowl twice in the lead.
Done.
"He was the first soccer-style kicker in the NFL and elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1991." Add another "was" before "elected" and remove the repeat Hall of Fame link.
Done.
One example of entries not fully backed up by sources is Bill Wilkinson in the baseball section. The notes say that he "Lived in Great Falls during his mid-teens", but the ref doesn't back that up. Baseball-Reference lists Wilkinson as having lived in Wyoming and Colorado, but I don't see Great Falls, Montana anywhere.
cut, moved to talk page.
Vedie Himsl: Source only mentions one year as a manager, not everything else he did (playing, coaching, scouting).
Added two sources to list and article.
For Les Rohr, the source doesn't prove that he "Moved to Montana when very young", though it does verify that he attended high school there.
Added official site covering that.
Basketball: Robin Selvig has spare brackets after "Coach" in the notes.
Fixed.
Football: The ref on Jerry Kramer was an interesting video, but I don't recall seeing that he was born in Montana in it. Pro Football Reference probably has it covered, so a second ref for that entry is worthwhile. That will take care of those honors listed as well.
Done.
Kramer's note should probably say "ranked number one player not in the Hall of Fame by the NFL Network" for attribution purposes.
Done.
Bobby Petrino: "collegiate head coach University of Louisville...". Needs a word or two after "coach".
Done.
The source for Jan Stenerud says skiing scholarship, not ski jumping scholarship. It may well have been a ski jumping scholarship, but if so another source is needed to prove that.
Done.
Jim Sweeney: The source for him says nothing about Jan Stenerud. A space would be nice before the parenthetical (MSU), but this is a secondary issue.
Done, both.
Rodeo: For Bill Linderman, the source doesn't give his accolades, nor does it really verify his birth place (it just says his parents were from there). If you look at the article, you should find other sources that contain the information needing citation here.
Done.
Dan Mortensen: The source doesn't verify his membership in the ProRodeo Hall of Fame.
Done.
Other athletes: The Alice Ritzman bio from the LPGA doesn't give her birth place, though it does say she's from the state.
Tweaked entry, added ref.
The Leslie Spaulding source says she resides in Billings, not Bozeman.
She lived in both, Billings til about 2004 and then at Bozeman while coaching 2007-2011. Just updated list and article, with refs.
As a general note, how many of these lifespans are backed up in the sources? Going back to Linderman for a second, it's impossible for the ref to cover it because it came from before he died. I'd be interested to see how many are actually backed up and how many were taken from articles here. For the major sports a stat site would have the birth/death dates covered, but for minor sports like rodeo attention needs to be paid to this factor.
I've updated everything you've found and will keep looking on my own in case you missed some.
In ref 105, Sher Dog should be Sherdog.
Done.
What makes Inside Pittsburgh Pirates (ref 22), Mpora Pure Action Sports (ref 104), and North Face (ref 107) reliable sources?
Tanner Hall (mpora ref) cut and moved to talk page, North Face (re Nikki Kimall) is a highly reputable outdoor equipment firm and if the North Face ref isn't enough there's this one, replace the IPP one with his baseball reference managerial one.
Note that I didn't check every single source, so it's possible that I didn't catch all of the issues. In fact, I likely didn't, which worries me. What else is uncited in the various columns?
A retortical question with slightly dark undertones in its asking. I've updated everything you've found and will keep looking on my own in case you missed some. I'm still new at this. I'll fix everything everyone finds or remove it to the talk page for future research. PumpkinSkytalk 00:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That was meant to catch the attention of the FLC community so that someone else will spot-check the list. We don't have nearly enough of that happening here, and I hope this effort is undertaken with this list. I'm sure you don't want any problems remaining in the list either. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If that was the goal, no problem. I want the list to be as good as possible. PumpkinSkytalk 21:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Two more comments upon checking the changes: in ref 101, the publisher shouldn't have a space between Pro and Rodeo (atypical, I know), and in ref 128, a publisher is needed. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Jeff Ballard's ref doesn't say he currently lives in Billings, or that he was raised in Billings; only he was born in Billings and attended high school there.
Fixed stmt.
John Gibbons ref doesn't say he was raised in Great Falls
Fixed stmt.
Neither refs for Rob Johnson say he was raised in Whitehall.
Cut that part.
Wrestling
Looks good.
Other athletes
Please provide a quote for ref 111, because I don't see where it says Anker lives in Bozeman, or was born in 1963, but the article is large, and I could have missed it.
See upper right, Official Montana Website, Department of Tourism.
If it is reliable, Eric Bergoust's entry doesn't reference his birth year or that Bergoust competed in the 1994, 2002, or 2006 Olympics
Added ref.
Where does it say in Scott Davis's ref that he is a two-time U.S. Champion?
Added ref.
A quote parameter would be useful in ref 115; skimmed the article and didn't see his birth year or the Butte connection.
Added two refs.
In Johnson's ref I couldn't find the Raised in Missoula connection.
Added ref.
Kimball's ref maybe a quote param for the Lives in Bozeman; I skimmed the article and couldn't find a connection.
Added ref.
Birth year and Butte connection missing for Leipheimer
Added ref.
Petkevich's ref makes me question the reliability of montanakids.com; it states he was born in 1950, and lists Wikipedia as a source; Raised in Great Falls I'd change to born in Minneapolis per the sports reference reference.
MontanaKids is an official Montana website, Dept of Tourism. Yes they goofed the year but the rest is very accurate. NYT makes errors too, would you ban them from wiki? And saying they used wiki as one of their refs is like manufacturing dogfood but not feeding it to your own dog. MTKids also lists Sports Illustrated as a ref so are you saying we can't use SI too? Listing Minneapolis does not establish a MT connection.
There are many refs saying she was born in 1952, but I'm not sure which one would meet FL standards. I'd appreciate some help here.
this book, page 153, should work. Albacore (talk) 17:50, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added, thanks.
RMV [123] from Schmidt's entry; remove "ever" from quote.
Cut "ever", ref numbers have changed, I'm guessing you want Ski Channel removed?
No, Ski Channel is fine. Ref 123 (Ritzmans) was on Schmidt's summary, but now fixed. Albacore (talk) 17:50, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wigger's ref, where does it mention his birth or Great Falls connection?
Added ref.
I'll check the other sections later. Albacore (talk) 14:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Boxing
As a wiki Boxrec is not a reliable source
Changed to a good ref.
Basketball
Ref 57 is the same as ref 56, same URL. Another source should be provided.
Fixed.
Also, I emailed Montana Kids and told them to fix their site on Petkevich. PumpkinSkytalk 00:04, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
They have fixed it already, not bad huh? Go Team Montana Go! PumpkinSkytalk 17:36, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rodeo
Linderman's death year isn't mentioned in the refs
Added ref.
Mortensen's birth year not mentioned in the refs.
Added ref.
American football
If you could change the title to "Gridiron football" or "American football" and move it accordingly, that would be nice, to be more specific.
Changed to gridiron football as it's more encompassing and would include the guys who played in Canada, which is slightly diffrent version
Tilleman's ref doesn't say he lives in Harve
Added ref
Sweeney's birth year or place isn't mentioned, overall record isn't mentioned, and the years he spent at MSU aren't mentioned.
Added two refs.
Added ref for year and place born. The ref "big kick out of..." mentions his coaching at MSU (the one that ties him to Stenerud), but added two refs anyway
Petrino's ref is missing everything except the "University of Arkansas (2008–present)" part
Added two refs.
Salonen's ref doesn't say he was raised in Great Falls.
Added ref.
O'Billovich: "Born in Butte; attended college in Missoula" is unreferenced. ...defensive back and quarterback (1984–1985). Do you mean 1964–1965? He'd be 44 years old playing in the CFL... If it is 1964, than his end year of pro football is unreferenced, and the head coach years need to be arranged properly.
Fixed. Changed "born" to "attended high school" though it seems clear he was born there too.
Friesz's CFHOF needs a reference
Added ref.
Ref 73 doesn't say FitzSimmons was raised in Chester
Added ref.
Dorsch's ref doesn't say he attended high school in Bozeman, only that he was born there.
Added ref.
Donovan's ref doesn't say he went to HS in Helena, only that he was born there.
Added ref.
Dickenson's birth year is missing, as well as his Montana connection and his QB years 1997–2008
"Montanans participate in a wide variety of sports including: baseball, basketball, boxing, cycling, football, golf, rodeo, figure skating, skiing, and wrestling." reads very odd to me, Montanans like all other citizens of the world could play any sport, not just the ones you've listed.
True, should I add more sports or delete the line entirely? I've never been quite sure what to do on this one.
Refs should be Ref(s) as some are singular.
Fixed.
If you wish to abbreviate NFL in the lead then use it abbreviated thereafter.
I think I'd like to leave as is if it's okay.
Tables cols should be same width from section to section.
They are. I think the photos might be making them look diff. I may need help if further tweaking is needed.
In refs, staff isn't a proper noun so should just be staff, not Staff.
Only external link that isn't a major advert site is Montana's historical society. The rest look garbage.
