Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bugs and feature requests should be made at BugZilla.

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

« Archives, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211

"User" and "Page" menus not dropping down in MonoBook

Same under Firefox & IE. Haven't checked other browsers. Click on the tab and nothing happens. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

This was discussed briefly above. Simply add importScriptURI('http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&title=User:Haza-w/cactions.js'); to your local.js page to get the drop-downs to work again - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 08:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't work. I added the script. I still can't get the drop-downs. `Maile66 (talk) 08:32, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

It needs to be on your .js page, not your .css page :). - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 08:36, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, now this got incredibly strange. I got the drop-downs back by putting it on my js. When I go to my main user page, it gives me duplicates of "User", and the dropdown "Userspace", the first time, it takes me to a page that says Wikipedia does not have a user page with this exact name (Maile66), and tells me to create one. If I try it again, it takes me to User space. If I go to any given Wikipedia page I get two "page", one a duplicate of the other."History" under "Page", it takes me to History, not the page history. Anything else under "page" takes me to "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name." -Maile66 (talk) 08:53, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

You need to uncheck the drop down options in you Preferences > Gadgets, as well as having it on your js page, that should get it all working smoothly. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 09:03, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Ta! Da! Works now. Thanks. -Maile66 (talk) 09:08, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Worked for me, too. Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I, on the other hand, have the same problem, but I don't seem to have a .js page. Am I looking in the wrong place, or do I need to create it? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 02:22, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

"Preferences > Gadgets" was mentioned just 3 messages above, you know. — AlexSm 03:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

No need to be like that. There's nothing on Gadgets that talks about a ".js page" - well, nothing obvious to this user. I have absolutely no idea what a .js page is, or even what "js" stands for. I am just a non-technical user who has a problem with a drop down box, and I would like to find out how to have it fixed so that I can get on with editing, the way I used to. None of the suggestions I was offered anywhere else have worked, and I was sent here for help. If it helps you to think of me as a dummy, then go right ahead and treat me as a dummy and spoon feed me with words of one syllable. Whatever works, I don't care. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 23:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

You don't have any .js pages. Please be more specific as to exactly what problem you are having, confirm that you're using the monobook skin, and tell us if you have "Add page and user options to drop-down menus" checked in your preferences -> gadgets. —UncleDouggie (talk) 00:15, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I was sent here from Wikipedia:Help desk#Edit drop down box stuck, where my problem is outlined in detail. I am indeed using the Monobook skin. "Add page and user options to drop-down menus" was not checked, but I have now checked it. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 00:56, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Now I see. Does the same thing happen with the vector skin? Please try turning off all checked preferenes here and here as a test. You should double check that they really got turned off, sometimes I've needed to make and save the changes twice for unknown reasons. You will also need to do bypass your cache when loading the edit page you are testing. Using vector with no preferences will pretty well simulate logged out behavior. Assuming that this works, re-enable your preferences one by one and let us know which is causing the problem. I use vector with many preferences and don't see this problem. Another alternative you could test first is to login with Firefox. —UncleDouggie (talk) 02:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Wanted: Script to copy blank templates to clipboard

Could some kind soul please devise a script, which could be added to template documentation pages which include pro-forma blank templates, and which would generate a button that, when clicked, would copy the blank template to the clipboard? Ideally, it would be capable of being used twice on a page, such as with {{Infobox settlement}}, where there are two or more versions of the blank template. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 09:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I created this, which converts text in PRE tags on template documentation to TEXTAREA tags, which is exactly like the boxes you use to edit pages. This allows you to edit the examples to suit whatever you need to do, before copying them over, etc. To install, edit Special:MyPage/skin.js and copy the following to it:

importScript('User:Gary King/editable template examples.js'); // [[User:Gary King/editable template examples.js]]

Cheers Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, if I now understand you correctly, you want this to be added to documentation pages to be visible to ALL users? Would need editing to MediaWiki:Common.js then, so perhaps request there. Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:19, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, but that's not what I want to do. I want a button that copies the blank template to the clipboard, with one click. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

This makes the blank template easy to copy. Just click somewhere in the blank template box, then select all and copy. Gary King (talk · scripts) 00:10, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Template:Derefer

Today I had to disable the derefering in Template:Derefer (because of Wikipedia:HD#Unable_to_get_rid_of_.22cite_error.22_message), it used anonym.to, which is on the (meta) spam blacklist (It has to be there, cause such services can be used to bypass the spam blacklists). Now there should be a permanent solution for this, we could either fully delete the template and set direct links or no links (the question is, should wikipedia really link on pages we know we can't trust), or find another derefering service (which will be blocked sooner or later as well). - Hoo man (talk) 13:27, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Info: The specific problem was when trying to do this to fix the ref error on Zoophilia, which triggered the blacklist due to the link to http://anonym.to on template:Derefer, which was removed with this edit, to allow the fix to the article. Chzz  ►  13:47, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Try MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist? T. Canens (talk) 02:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_March_29#Template:Derefer Thanks, Tim Chzz  ►  21:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikimedia error

Yes, I should have copied details of the error. Here is what I know.

I edited a very long article, and it did not come back up when I finished. I got a "Wikimedia error" screen, then used ALT-left to go back, and the edit screen had an earlier version of my edit, from when I previewed but then added more. I tried to save and got an edit conflict. I gave up and looked at the article. My edit was there in full.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

So your edit was probably successfully submitted and accepted by the server, but when the server tried to redirect you back to the article, it failed and then gave you that error when trying to display the article, not submit the edit. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Apparently. I had no way of knowing that at the time, or whether this was a sign of something more serious that needed to be reported. Apparently not.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:17, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

30 kb

Hi. I noticed that the warning no longer comes up for 30kb when the article is over it. Was there some consensus or discussion on this? I'd long thought 30kb a ridiculously low limit anyway.For many topics it is difficult to write a comprehensive articles under 60kb let alone 30. List of Chinese inventions is how long?♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:32, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

This message was disabled due to bug 21911. Graham87 07:44, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

However the functionality could be re-enabled by moving MediaWiki:Longpagewarning to MediaWiki:Longpage-hint, changing $1 to $2, and adding a condition to only display the page size when it is above a certain limit. See this talk page message. Graham87 07:51, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I think we should do that, but change the limit to something higher, like 40kb. WP:SPLIT makes me think that or 60kb is a good benchmark. However, if we don't do this, Wikipedia:Article_size#How_to_find_long_articles needs to be updated. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 00:00, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I think (IIRC) that the 30KB threshold was implemented quite a while back and may not reflect current web page sizes across the Internet as well as the presence of much more powerful devices across the board. The problem is, to what size would we change it to? I'm having a hard time trying to find reports or studies that are current, i.e. 2009 or later, in any search on web page sizes. –MuZemike 15:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

60kb is fair I think.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

from ceyockey — I would actually argue for twice that -- 120kb. There is a site, which I won't call authoritative, which states that the average page size as of 2009 was 500kb.[1] Another site quotes an average size as of 2008 of 312kb.[2]. Still another value is 320kb as of 2010.[3] I am not arguing for a specific limit, but it is reasonably clear that 60kb is substantially below the current much-varied but generally larger current average page size. --08:20, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The numbers you are citing are for web page sizes, presumably including CSS, JavaScript and (most importantly) images. Here we are talking about page sizes in terms of MediaWiki source code, which are considerably smaller. Hans Adler 09:29, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

from ceyockey — OK - it would be good to say something constructive about how a "web" page would translate to a "mediawiki" page. I do understand that an image here is but a link; however, for a page to render properly, the image needs to be transmitted along with the rest of the page content; thus, my comment below about what the aim is in choosing a limit. The numbers I've provided are not useless; they need to be put into perspective with respect to comparable content here on the wiki. --09:48, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

We need some statistics before implementing a limit. I thought that 120KB looked ok, but then I noticed that Homeopathy is a "good article" and it's 138 Kb long. Partly, because well-referenced articles have a lot of extra size due to all the references. I suggest that we look at the typical sizes of featured and good articles before suggesting limits. --Enric Naval (talk) 08:48, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

from ceyockey — I think that the specific limit chosen is less important than the aim of choosing a limit. Is it to accommodate mobile users, who might get Wikipedia articles on their smart phones? Is it slow connection users, who need small page sizes to have practical access to content? Or is it a gauge of a "minimum informational unit", geared toward some level of semantic equivalence or information content equivalence? --08:56, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

How can I get a report of a specific project articles with incomplete B-class checklists?

I am pretty sure it is doable... but I forgot how. Concerns WP:POLAND. Thanks :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 23:26, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Bump to prevent archiving, question still open. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:30, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Still waiting. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:17, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

You may want to ask this at Template talk:WPBannerMeta. Amalthea 18:25, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Image server problem?

Is there a problem with the image servers? I have to bypass/purge a number of times to make images display. And no, my browser image settings have not changed. Thanks. – ukexpat (talk) 19:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

On Commons the image are very slow to display at the moment. Keith D (talk) 20:19, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm getting the same problem, no browser settings problem or change. Thanks. Same problem with me.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Seems to be getting worse.--Old Moonraker (talk) 12:02, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Commons now has the following notice. "System notice: The thumbnail server is currently undergoing maintenance. Thumbnails may be broken. We will restore full service as soon as possible." Keith D (talk) 18:57, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the update.--Old Moonraker (talk) 21:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Is this related to Commons image issue?

An image I want to use from Commons was uploaded as (all caps) JPG, rather than lower-case jpg. If I put the all-caps JPG in an infobox (I've tried a couple of different infoboxes), it will not display the image. If I use a lower-case jpg, no problem. If I try to manually change the extension from all-caps to lower-case, the infobox displays a red link instead. Since I've tried it on more than one infobox, the issue is not specific to a given infobox. I can use the all-caps JPG on a page, as long as I don't put it in an infobox. However, the infobox is what I want the image for. If this is not an issue with Commons, how do I work around this and still use the image in an infobox? -Maile66 (talk) 15:08, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Image extants both here and on Commons are case sensitive, so a "jpg" image is not considered to be the same as a "JPG" image -- it all depends on what extant was given the file when it was uploaded. If it's your file, you can ask an admin or a file mover to rename it with the extant you prefer, and see what happens. If it's not your file, I doubt anyone's going to make the move just to change the extant. And, no, this is not in any way related to the Commons image problem, it's just the way the WikiMedia wikis are set up. (Articles names here are case sentitive as well.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Wikipedia is a continual learning curve. -Maile66 (talk) 16:38, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikisource

I'm asking this here, because this is where I feel comfortable. When I go to Wikisource, I can access it and add, no problem. At the top of the page, my user name and "My Talk" are red links, while the other items are blue links. If I clock on my user name, or "My Talk", the message that comes up is:"Wikisource does not have a page with this exact name". It says Permanent Link on the toolbox in Wikipedia will avoid this. Here's where it just becomes very unclear to me. So, I click Permanent Link while I'm on my user page at Wikipedia. So?????? How does this clear it up with Wikisource, because I don't see that it did. Can anybody clarify this for me? Thanks. -Maile66 (talk) 00:48, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

So, never mind. I created the pages from scratch. Not as smooth a process as connecting to other Wiki. Maile66 (talk) 12:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

For me at wikisource:User:PrimeHunter the message includes "there is a link titled Permanent link in the toolbox on the left", with no mention of Wikipedia. The message comes because your user page was not created, resulting in a red link. The only way to avoid the message and red link is to create the page as you did. The part about the permanent link was not relevant in your situation. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:44, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Has there been any progress on fixing bug 9790 ?

It's been open for years, and I still find it to be a real annoyance. See bug report here: [4]. StuRat (talk) 03:18, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Probably not, unless someone fixed it and forget to close the bug, but I doubt that. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I meant, is anybody working on it ? Is it still open, but low priority ? Or has it been closed as not worth fixing ? StuRat (talk) 23:21, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The ticket is open, indicated by the label NEW at the Status line. At any time, there are about 5500 open bugs (and slowly increasing). If everyone of them was being worked on, we would require about 60 fulltime software engineers, we are lucky if we have about 20 hobbyists and 3 fulltime mediawiki/wikipedia software engineers. So unless you spike someone's interest, most low priority (everything that doesn't make Wikipedia content unavailable) bugs and feature requests reside in 'eternal limbo' awaiting the lowly developer that at some point gets annoyed by the problem enough to fix it himself. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 08:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Wiki markup

Resolved

Hi, for some reason, my Wiki markup has stopped working whenever I edit a page. In the past I've been able to click any of the icons and it would be automatically imported into the article; however now it won't, and I have to manually add it instead. Is the problem clear enough? I bet I sound like a right noob... Thanks in advance, GiantSnowman 03:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Worked it out thanks to BilCat (talk · contribs). GiantSnowman 12:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

How to only list created articles for a specific user?

How to only list articles I created (or anyone else)..? Electron9 (talk) 09:41, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

At the bottom of the contributions page for the user (example Special:Contributions/Electron9), click "Articles created". Johnuniq (talk) 09:44, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!, how to sort by creation date? (newest first) Electron9 (talk) 09:59, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Table question

Is it possible to set it so that individual rows and columns in a table will only appear if you set a switch? For example, this comparison table of DS systems. I'd like to have "Production status" appear on the table on the Nintendo DS article, but not on the 3DS article. I also don't want the 3DS column to appear on the DS article. Is there any way of going about this? --Dorsal Axe 13:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It is possible, but either requires: coding the table using html, or using hacks such as {{!}}. I would advise against both. To be honest, that table really doesn't seem fit for being used in more than one article. You should also attempt not to place section headings in templates, as that can confused other editors. --Izno (talk) 15:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. Hm, that sounds a bit ugly. Might just leave it, I suppose. I removed the heading, but I've now found it that it was so that people could more easily access and edit the template. I'll put in a seperate link for that, I think. --Dorsal Axe 23:18, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Pages incorrectly appearing as edit-protected

I quote my comment originally posted at Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#Reference desk pages edit-protected:

Something seems to have gone screwy today with the reference desk pages. They are all read-only to me (not logged in), until I append "purge=yes" to the URL, when they become editable again. Then when I remove "purge=yes" they go back to being protected. Local refresh (F5 etc.) makes no difference. I think something is messed up.

This has since happened several more times to me with different talk pages, the latest being Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style.

There is a problem here that needs investigation. 86.183.4.56 (talk) 17:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Slow page rendering in Firefox

With Firefox (so far Firefox 3.6, but now also Firefox 4.0 with a brand new profile) I keep having the following problem:

Most of a page is rendered immediately, but some elements are added by scripts and take a bit longer. At some point it looks as if everything is complete, so I click in a certain location. Then after I clicked, JavaScript adds another element, which shifts part of the page, and in the location where I clicked there is suddenly a different user interface element.

Usually nothing too bad happens and I only end up having to use the back button because I opened some page that I didn't want. But a few moments ago I clicked on "undo", and then Twinkle's red "rollback (VANDAL)" button ended up in this location.

This kind of thing is incredibly annoying. Am I the only one who has this problem? Has anyone found a workaround for this Firefox bug? Hans Adler 19:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It's not a bug, it's the logical result of dynamically adding page elements. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:41, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It's still a Firefox bug. If I click somewhere on the page, but instead of acting on this the browser decides to first continue changing the page, then it must (1) ignore the click, or (2) take a note of which element I clicked to send the event there once it has finished. Finishing the page and then treating the mouse click as if it had happened after the change is not a reasonable option. Hans Adler 18:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I do agree it is really annoyng.

See also these previous topics: Jumping page and Jumping to the wrong section. There is also the Bug 27488. Helder 20:56, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Hans Adler 18:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I've experienced much of the same problems. It's not so much a bug as a structural flaw in how Wikipedia's software is designed and written. Too much JavaScript (jQuery for heavens sake!), too much dynamic content, and too much content added after the "onload" event. A mess that will probably just get worse as more JavaScript and jQuery is added over time. — Blue-Haired Lawyer ^t 20:16, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

This problem became much worse with the recent change in MediaWiki versions. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

We all know that this is a problem, but only the developers can do something about it. While most JavaScript can be processed later, anything that collapses GUI elements needs to be performed right up front. I know the problem very well and yet I still accidentally rolled back Jimbo's talk page without even knowing it. I have found that things are somewhat improved, but not solved, with Firefox 4. —UncleDouggie (talk) 06:29, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, collapsible elements could be solved by using css to hide content before it loads instead of JavaScript after it loads. We don't need developers to change our css. And doing so would at least prevent some of the content jumping problems that we have at present. — Blue-Haired Lawyer ^t 12:42, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Right, but anyone with javascript disabled can't then read that collapsed content anymore. Amalthea 13:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm tempted to say "so what!". Registered users could override the css, and rest would probably hardly notice. — Blue-Haired Lawyer ^t 13:11, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

In that case i'm tempted to remind editors that JS is not a requirement of our website, and that all content should be readable without Javascript. It was one of the guidelines that led to the current implementation of collapsible items and I doubt we would have had them at all if that requirement had not been satisfied way back in 2005. I would argue that having collapsible elements by default, would sooner mean the end of collapsible elements than a fixed problem. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:25, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

• I think the last-minute jumps happen with other browsers, as well. This problem is similar to typical, enormous mega-magazine webpages, where readers have learned to wait for the massive page to display, before anxiously clicking on partial window links. In general, advise readers, as in other websites, beware clicking on links near images or video-inserts, because text can shift a few seconds later and take the browser to the wrong webpage. -Wikid77 19:37, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

• I think you may be missing the salient point that before the software change, the problem was negligible, which inevitably leads to the supposition that something in the new version isn't working as well as it did in the old version. If that's the case, it should probably be fixed, as an upgrade which degrades performance is hardly a good thing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Can HTML be auto-forced to end of page?

In applying a particular layout to a talk page, is there a way to force a closing div to be automatically moved to the bottom of a page after a new comment or section is added?

My current implementation has a closing div placed manually, which is then fixed where I placed it, putting new sections outside the design specified by the div tag pair.

It's no biggie, but I'm a nerd and I'd like to know. Regards Peter S Strempel | Talk 03:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

You can use absolute positioning in the style. For example: position:absolute; top:-45px; left:-165px; will place the div at the top left. You might really want an editnotice.[5] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Context per line

In the search preferences i can put a number in "Context per line". I tried changing it and no matter what i put there, nothing seems to change on the results page.

It it supposed to do anything at all? If it doesn't do anything on Wikipedia, then why is the preference still there? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:57, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Reported a bug: bugzilla:28343. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 06:57, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

What type of space used in this article?

In this diff I converted what appeared to be spaces into actual spaces so that the infobox displayed as expected. I've been unable to find a tool to tell me what actual spaces were in the infobox before: some kind of Unicode non-breaking space or similar – I can't tell. Can anybody link to a tool to give me the answer (I'd like to check for any other occurrences). Thanks Rjwilmsi 12:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

It was Unicode Non-breaking space. I'm not aware of any existing tools but it is possible to write a script that would alert you to non-breaking spaces when you start editing a page. — AlexSm 15:21, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Javascript problem?

For the last few hours, Wikipedia has been near unusable for me. Every time a load a page, click a link or start typing anything, the whole window goes white for about a second. The toolbar at the top also blinks on and off every second. (with my us I've found it's marginally better without the clock gadget. I'm guessing it's something to do with javascript, since it's affecting every page except my preferences. I'm not having this problem anywhere else on the web (including other WMF wikis). I'm using Google Chrome (latest) and Monobook. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:52, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

The problem doesn't seem to be any better in another account. Any help would be appreciated. Whisky drinker | HJ's sock (Mistake? let me know) 19:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Try disabling JavaScript in your browser to see if it really is JavaScript first. Assuming you're using Vector and therefore have no scripts installed, then try resetting your account's preferences. Probably best to do that on your test account. Gary King (talk · scripts) 19:11, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Move Log out link in Monobook

Is there a script to hide (or move to sidebar) the log out link at the top of the page? ^Avic_ennasis @ 07:31, 25 Adar II 5771 / 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Go to Special:MyPage/skin.css and paste the following there:

#pt-logout { display: none; }

That should hide it. Gary King (talk · scripts) 16:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be better to use #pt-logout a { color: white; } instead of #pt-logout { display: none; } so that the link can still be used. – Allen4names 18:25, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again, Gary. :)

And thanks for the suggestion, Allen, but I want to disable the link, not just hide it. (I guess I should have stated that better before.) Sometimes I go to click "my contributions" before the page is fully loaded (and thusly, before the UTC clock is loaded,) and when the UTC clock does load, it moves the links over, so instead of clicking on "my contributions" I'm now clicking on "logout". Hope that clearly explains my problem. Besides, one can still visit Special:UserLogout to log out. ^Avic_ennasis @ 02:40, 26 Adar II 5771 / 1 April 2011 (UTC)

HTML, or XHTML?

The page Help:HTML in wikitext tells its readers how HTML [sic] may be used in pages here, e.g. that a line break may be effected with the four keystrokes <br>. This comes as rather a surprise to me. I've commented in its talk page, but when I did so was told Talk pages in this namespace are generally not watched by many users. Therefore this note alerting people here about the matter. Please comment on that talk page rather than here. (I'll crosspost this message to the help desk.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:06, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Search software

I spent a long and frustrating time trying to find out about a novel, "Easy Travel to Nearby Planets," and finally found that the novel was "Easy Travel to Other Planets;" I'll cut to the chase: any knowledgeable human would quickly have corrected my mistake and directed me to the right book. This is a prize-winning book, which introduced the phrase "information sickness."

The problem isn't only with Wikipedia's software: I tried two search engines, and the Library of Congress' software forced me to go through scores of titles containing the word "Planets" till I found the right title, and of course, I recognized it instantly. I used to storesit--I wasn't a salaried sales clerk--and customers would sometimes want a novel whose title and author they'd forgotten, while they remembered only the plot; I don't expect software to be able to do that, but finding a title or another phrase that's different just by a word or two seems thoroughly practical.

Francvs (talk) 10:42, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that Wikipedia should have a facility for correcting misremembered names of subjects on which it does not have articles? -- Hoary (talk) 12:57, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

After not coming up with the result you wanted, when you knew the book existed, you should have assumed that the problem might be that the title you were using might not be exactly correct. In this case, the thing to do would be to eliminate any words you were not absolutely positive of, or boil it down to the most basic of the words. A search for easy travel planets (without quote marks surrounding) would have, in most search engines, brought up some links that would allow you to make some progress. The problem here is not with the search engines per se, but with the way we utilize them. We need to be flexible about our search parameters in order to et what we want. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:21, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Robots.txt

I posted a question at MediaWiki talk:Robots.txt, but since it seems rather dead so I'll repost it here.

Both WP:Copyright problems and now WP:Suspected copyright violations are listed there to try and avoid them being quite so visible on public search engines. Can someone take a look and tell me if the daily subpages are being noindexed also (or fix it if they aren't)? VernoWhitney (talk) 14:28, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Saskatchewan newsletters filling up CAT:CSD

For some reason a lot of WikiProject Saskatchewan newsletters are appearing in CAT:CSD, though I don't see any request to delete in the histories of those I have looked at. A lot of talk page archives are also appearing which have WikiProject Saskatchewan newsletters in them. JohnCD (talk) 16:42, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

fixed, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Saskatchewan_Monthly_Assessment&action=historysubmit&diff=421842858&oldid=421836996 ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 16:46, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah, okay. It's a problem where the newsletters are referencing the moved page due to its misplacement as a separate WikiProject in the Wikipedia namespace. The redirect need not be deleted if it breaks those newsletters. Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 20:52, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Miszabot problem

I posted on Misza13's talk page a couple of hours ago but no one seems to be home so perhaps someone here knows the fix. What happened here? The bot appears to try to archive to a non-existent target page. I've double-checked the spelling and configuration bits but must be missing something. I've reverted the bot for now but left the configuration setup in the hopes that by the next go around, we'll have the problem fixed. Please help. Thank you,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:35, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

• Blacklisted link: [6]. Should work tomorrow. –xeno^talk 19:42, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Cheers! Did you just know that or is there a way to scan a page automatically to reveal that sort of problem? I wonder if the bot could be programmed to give error feedback for something like that. Danke,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

You just copy the whole page and (try to) paste it into the sandbox, and if there is a blacklisted link it will inform you about it. –xeno^talk 19:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Preloaded talk page section + "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" = prompt

Specifically with the "Ping User" links on WP:CHU, when I try to leave a preloaded message (with a header) in a new section, it prompts me because I didn't manually enter a header (but one was provided). I'm guessing I should take this to bugzilla, but if anybody has anything to say about it, feel free. For a convenient link to test it yourself, here:

• Current username: Demize/dev/null (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · target logs · block log · list user · global contribs · central auth · Google) (ping user)
• Target username: Newname (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · target logs · block log · list user · global contribs · central auth · Google) (advise user)
• Previous renames: current user, target user, Queue: open req, closed req
• For renamer use: Email target username, usurp user, rename user

Just use the ping user link, don't worry about leaving me a message (since that's just my sandbox). Thanks, demize (t · c) 20:00, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:El

Why does Template:El redirect to Template:External links and not to the Greek language icon? EL is the official ISO language code of Greek. Unlike other languages where you can use e.g {{en}} for English, {{de}} for German and {{fr}} for French you have to use {{el icon}} because {{el}} misdirects you to Template:External links. SpeakFree (talk) 23:15, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Replied at template talk:el, discussion is misplaced here. Amalthea 12:49, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Atn

Something is wrong with the template. See User talk:Editorofthewiki/Archive 39. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 23:43, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

There is a limit to nested functions and templates - all of the "ifeq" parser functions are nested in Template:Atn/Prev and it reaches the limit when used in Archive 39. It's possible that these can be used separately with the same effect (if an page is Archive 2, it can't also be Archive 1) or it may be better with the switch function as used by Template:Talk archive navigation, which seems to combine this and the talk archive header template. Peter E. James (talk) 10:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Image question

Okay, so I've got the article Tough Love: Best Of The Ballads, and there's supposed to be an image in the infobox, but it's not showing up for me, but the image shows up fine when I go to the actual file page. This happens in IE9, Chrome and Opera. I'm not the only one this happened to, L1A1 FAL (talk · contribs) mentioned it on my talk page. I'm pretty much clueless with images, so if a smarter person knows what's going on and could explain/fix it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, C628 (talk) 03:08, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

It looks like something's wacky with images in general. The last 5 images I uploaded on Commons tonight show up in full resolution on the image page, but do not render as thumbnails in articles or in category pages. I imagine to has something to do with the problems they were having with the thumbnail server yesterday.

...I just tried taking your image out of the infobox and looked at it in the article at full size, and it rendered just fine, so a thumbmail problem seems like the likliest explanation. Maybe one of the developers could take a moment and let us know what's going on. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:14, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

The Operations folks are aware of this intermittent problem and are working it now. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwooster (talk • contribs) 04:55, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Glad to hear this is being worked, i've encountered what appears to be the same problem, in Explorer 8 and in Firefox 4. Richard Myers (talk) 05:45, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Extending SUL to private wikis

If I remember correctly, there once was a discussion here or at Meta (or bug report at BZ) regarding the extending of the SUL account to private wikis that use MediaWiki. Anyone knows where that took place, or what happened to it? Rehman 12:53, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

commenting out large sections of text

I have repeatedly run across situations where it would have been extremely convenient to comment out large portions of text but found it was impossible to do so because the text itself contained numerous comments. This has happened in articles, templates, and in stylesheets. It often occurs when initially building the page or when debugging it. There ought to be a way to do this.
Just granpa (talk) 15:29, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

How do you think it should be done? Happy‑melon 15:40, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Use a template which produces no output. Taemyr (talk) 16:06, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Void

Just granpa (talk) 02:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

• We have been using #ifeq to omit the contents of the if-then clause: {{#ifeq: hell| freezes over|...massive_lines_of_text... }}. That will work well unless there are problems with the nesting of "}}" inside the skipped text. You can also use <includeonly>...</includeonly> during edit-preview. -Wikid77 20:11, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

External tools link to transclusion count broken

The External tools link to the transclusion count for a template leads to a dead page. For example, when one clicks on "Transclusion count for Template:WPUSA, one is directed to a dead page, see: [7]. Is the tool down permanently? --Funandtrvl (talk) 16:15, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope, I just broke it without realising yesterday. Ooops :P Fixed now. - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 18:12, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

TYVM! --Funandtrvl (talk) 18:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

My "birth" date

This seems more cosmetic than problematic, but I'm curious. When I mouse over editors' usernames, popups show something like: "userright1, userright2, xxx edits since: yyyy-mm-dd". When I do the same over mine, it ends at "since: " (with no date). I thought this might just be because it's my own account I'm seeing, but while logged out I just looked myself up using the Users query (using FF3, FF4, and IE8) and notice that I don't have a creation date displayed, whereas many other users do. Is this something I can fix? I don't recall anything unusual about my "birth", so I'm not sure why I'm different. I'm not very experienced in the workings of WP, so this might reflect my ignorance. -- Scray (talk) 17:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Your 'birth date' probably predates the 2005 introduction of the New User log. Any names registered before that date have 'no' date. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. I guess I lurked awhile before I edited. My memory may be worsening as I age. thanks. -- Scray (talk) 19:30, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that's the right explanation since e.g. users Jimbo Wales, Magnus Manske, The Anome, Brion VIBBER all have creation dates. You are not alone though, Scray, there are a couple of accounts that are missing a creation date. Amalthea 20:50, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Your examples are compelling (for longterm users who have creation dates); why do you say "a couple" have missing creation dates - is there a report that reveals how many? In any case, the mystery remains. Anyone know of a fix? -- Scray (talk) 21:29, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

No report that I know, but I remember that Lifebaka (talk · contribs) also has no creation date set, and if you check the log from back then you'll note that none of the users with red-linked contribs show a registration date, and even some of the ones with contributions (like you) don't. Not sure what the underlying bug was, I presume it is known and fixed since current new users show a registration date from the get-go.
I presume that the respective database field of all affected users is simply empty. It should be fixable for all those users created past September 2005 since we have the user log entries (here's yours). However, you need a developer with database write access to run that query, and I don't think this task will have priority anytime soon. But if you want that fixed, first step is looking into bugzilla to check whether an issue for this already exists, and opening one if it doesn't. If I'm right and it's as easy as filling in that date it's a rather simple task. But also not an important one. Amalthea 22:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

If this is not a persistent bug, I can't see a reason to bother anyone with it. Thanks VERY much for clarifying. -- Scray (talk) 00:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK: Upon introduction of the user creation log (along with a field for user creation dates in the user table), a script was run to retroactively populate this field based on first edit/log dates. However, any users without edits/logs prior to the execution of this script did not get it populated, and it hasn't been run again. So (generally) if your user was created before the new user log, but edited after, it will have no date (but note the script was not instantaneously executed). See bugzilla:18638. --Splarka (rant) 07:24, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you nailed it. My account was created a few years before I edited, and it seems running of that script fell between those dates. Thanks to all, especially Splarka for clearing this up for me. I'll probably never get a date, but at least now I know why. - sounds like a teenager's lament -- Scray (talk) 15:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

File:URL

[8] This page is supposed to be just a plain redirect but the software is treating it as media in File: namespace. For example it's mistakenly showing up at the bottom of this category. Is there a way of making it ignore the File: prefix so it will function as a regular redirect page? -- œ^™ 20:23, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

From what I've learn from Commons, there is no way to ignore the prefix. IMO, the only way to fix this now is to delete the "file"... Rehman 01:08, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

"Rate this page"

I read the Sharon Osbourne article and noticed the "Rate this page"-box at the bottom (it's gone now, but can be found on all pages in Category:Article Feedback Pilot). May I request that that box has a link to the project page for the ratings project so anyone interested in it can read more about it? --Bensin (talk) 03:12, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't see any pages in the MediaWiki namespace that dealt with the messages for that. You'll have to poke User:Jorm (WMF), who maintains that, or post to mw:Talk:Article feedback/Public Policy Pilot/Workgroup. Killiondude (talk) 03:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

OK. Done! Thanks for the link! --Bensin (talk) 05:49, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Link autocomplete script

I didn't really know where to put this, so I'm putting it here. Wikia has a neat little extension that autocompletes links in the edit form. I rewrote it as a user script without the need to install it server side and without the yahoo js library bloat. It's a bit rough around the edges, but it works. If anyone is interested, the code is here, I don't know if I'll have time to develop it further. -- Nx / talk 08:21, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Errors saving new pages

I get the following when adding new talkpages: "Wikipedia does not have a talk page with this exact name." It takes 2 or 3 attempts to save for each article. Please fix it. Lugnuts (talk) 09:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm having the same problem. I usually loose the entire contents of the new page because I can't get the old edit box back. It seems to be only a problem using the GUI because I successfully created a new page with the API on the first try. —UncleDouggie (talk) 10:52, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

What you are seeing is that the first save is successful, it just takes a lot of time before you can see that the save was successful. It seems it takes long atm to let changes trickle from the master database towards the slave databases and serving you the updated page. Might be related to all the image issues ? Anyways, this is called replication lag. Other causes can be that the backups are running and taking up a lot of the normal resources, connection issues between florida and amsterdam etc etc etc. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:46, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Icons not rendering

A few minutes ago, most icons from commons stopped rendering, including the globe in coordinates and File:Information.svg at 25px: . However, File:Information.svg works at 50px: . This is in two of my many browsers whether logged in or not. —UncleDouggie (talk) 10:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

The thumbnail server has had a rough time the pas 48 hours, this is another example of this. A new version of the thumbnail cannot be created atm and that is why you see the 'missing image' indication. Only thing to do is to wait while the system administrators try to stabilize and repair the problem (They have been continiously working on it for more than 10 hours now). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

ndashes and other similar things

Under what circumstances do things like ndashes and non-breaking spaces appear in the edit window as "& ndash;" and "& nbsp;" (without the spaces) rather than as those particular things? Normally I get the former, but occasionally I see dashes with "n" or "m" written above them in the edit window.

Secondly, would it be possible to force the latter? If so, I would be in a position to request this be done at some other venue. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 10:49, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

– is the unicode version of the character. &ndash; is the HTML entity representation of the same character (we prefer the unicode char these days). And if you have a little n above it in the editor window, then you are using WP:WikEd. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:38, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Is it possible to get the HTML version to display in the edit window as the unicode? Let you type it in HTML form, but have subsequent editors see it in unicode form? (Clearly whether we want to is another matter.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 13:44, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

This old thing might be adaptable by someone, using ranges instead of a list. It converts certain unicode to entities while editing, and converts those back during save. It temporarily corrupts the edit token so that the converted information cannot be submitted back unless the reconversion takes place. Probably broken now. --Splarka (rant) 07:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The [edit] link next to section headers has disappeared

Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_49#The_.5Bedit.5D_link_for_sections

Per discussion in May 2009, a useability feature was added that moved the [edit] link so that if appeared immediately at the end of header text should the user so desire this feature, which is standard on de-wiki. The button to turn this on is to be found under My preferences > Gadgets. I'm not on my regular computer atm, but the feature is not working. I have checked my preferences and the feature is enabled. Mjroots (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh FFS! Have tried to fix the bleddy link 3 times! I give up!!! Mjroots (talk) 16:57, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Still works for me, but it takes a while since you have to wait for all images to be loaded before the gadget kicks in, and with the current server overload (see #Icons not rendering) that can take minutes. Amalthea 17:06, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Expanded watchlist, new section not as +, popups

Hi

For some reason my watch list is not collapsing, it is fully expanded. Also the New Section tab is not displaying as + but rather as the full text version.

I have tried turning them both off, saving then turning them on again - each time flushing both server and browser cache. It is still not displaying correctly. The problem was not there earlier this afternoon.

I am using Firefox 4.0 with java console 6.0.24

And now popups are not working either....Chaosdruid (talk) 18:19, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

See one section above. Amalthea 19:02, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

? How does that relate to my problems? Do you mean the section above this one, or one above the one above this one I am not sure... Chaosdruid (talk) 19:14, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Having the same issues and also don't understand which above section you are talking about. Please be more specific. Also, no toolbar in the edit window, and probably all other nice gadgets too. Muhandes (talk) 20:15, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

A number of the sections above discuss server lag (and major efforts to address the problem) - my guess is that the gadgets you're looking for require server updates that currently have a lot of latency. -- Scray (talk) 23:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the section directly above, which also mentions a gadget not working. Amalthea 06:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry, to someone with as little knowledge as I have on the subject, it did not even register as something to do with a gadget. I just read something about a discussion in May 2009. I guess we'll just need to be patient. --Muhandes (talk) 07:03, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

No worries. It should be better now though (at least for me it is) Amalthea 07:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I have reinstalled Javascript and it seems to be ok in IE9 now, but still not working in Firefox. Firefox's error console gives me lots of warnings:

Error messages
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
(50 of these) Warning: Expected 'important' but found 'ie'. Expected ';' or '}' to terminate declaration but found 'ie'. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=mediawiki.legacy.commonPrint%7Cmediawiki.legacy.shared%7Cskins.vector&only=styles&skin=vector Line: 1 And these error messages: (2) Error: _fn is not defined Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%7Cmediawiki&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=20110403T141640Z Line: 108 (1) Error: hookEvent is not defined Source File: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-popups.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&418104345 Line: 7607 (3) Error: importScript is not defined Source File: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-Twinkle.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&301263369 Line: 4 (4) Error: addOnloadHook is not defined Source File: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-addsection-plus.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript& 14303502 Line: 7 some other javascript errors and lastly (1) Error: appendCSS is not defined Source File: http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-UTCLiveClock.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&smaxage=21600&maxage=86400 Line: 26

Any help on whether this is Wiki related or Firefox related would be appreciated, to reinstall Firefox with a fresh version will mean a lot of work...Cookies, passwords, etc. Chaosdruid (talk) 15:40, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

← You can't "reinstall Javascript" in Internet Explorer. And those Firefox error messages are likely old. Clear them, please, and then press Ctrl+F5 to force-reload this page. Wait until it has finished loading. Does popups work? Is your new section tab back to a plus sign? If not, which error messages are you seeing now in the Error Console? Amalthea 16:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

? Please try and assume that I am not a noob. I was not loading Javascript for IE9, I reinstalled both the 64 and 32 bit versions.

No, they are not old, they were the ones that were there when I had cleared the list and then reloaded this page. They are exactly as they were listed above, every time I load a page it adds the same 70+ errors to the list.

No, nothing is fixed, no popups, no + instead of New section, no toolbars in the editor, everything expanded on watchlist - In the editor (symbols/Latin/Greek/Cyrillic/IPA) expanded and all normal special tools gone, no simple Wikied at the top of the page, toolbox has no tools in it apart from basic ones (What links here/Related changes/Upload file/Special pages) and no expand button for them. Chaosdruid (talk) 16:19, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

All I can say is, ditto, same symptoms, with very similar errors on the Javascript error console. If this helps, everything works fine on my other machine with Firefox 3.6.16, it's only the firefox 4.0 machine. Muhandes (talk)

Sorry, Chaosdruid, that was my standard mode of operation.
One other idea, I hear that the resource loader version of Popups is broken in FF 4, and will halt loading of all other scripts during start up. Does either of you perchance have that gadget activated? Amalthea 18:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that little gem and your help :¬) I know they were making some changes and we had workarounds in place, but we were told it was ok last week or so ago ... It only started three days ago when the thumbnails started dissapearing and has been getting steadily worse until it gave up on Saturday late evening I suppose they are "fiddling" with it again lol.

I have disabled the Navigation popups resource loader version from gadgets and removed one of the workarounds from my vector jscripts page and everything seems back to normal again (so far lol).

Cheers for that! Chaosdruid (talk) 19:27, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, it solved the problem for me as well. --Muhandes (talk) 05:42, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Persondate template adding Moto GP?

(Copied here from another user's post at WT:Persondata#Moto GP?): This template doesn't seem to be working - putting information about Moto GP in the templates, see e.g. Hasan of Basra. JohnCD (talk) 20:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

The template is Template:Muslim Saints. On its own page, the data looks right. In test, it's become a Moto GP data template. Peridon (talk) 20:59, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I have fixed the article, for the moment, by changing to the existing template Template:Muslim saints (with a small "s"). The Large-S version was created recently by Imadjafar (talk), who has been working on the article; it is now not used anywhere. I will leave him a note about it. It is suggested he may have been trying to create an infobox. There is still a puzzle, now not urgent, over why Template:Muslim Saints (large S) expands to say things about Moto GP. JohnCD (talk) 21:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

BAG Recruitment

The Bot Approvals Group is responsible for reviewing and approving bots on Wikipedia. However, for an extended period of time we have been staffed at below the optimal number for reviewing bot requests. Therefore, I am asking experienced members of the community with an interest in reviewing bots to consider submitting themselves for membership at Wikipedia_talk:BAG#Requests_for_BAG_membership. Thanks. MBisanz ^talk 01:14, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Address of redirected page not as expected

A redirect results in the display of the correct page, but the displayed url is of the redirect. For example, W. V. Quine redirects to Willard Van Orman Quine, but my browser (Firefox) displays in the address bar: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._V._Quine". This is confusing. If I then want to email that article, I do "<Alt>File>Send link" and get the address of the redirect page instead the address of the page I see displayed. Can the software be changed so that the browser displays the correct address? -- Hpvpp (talk) 01:53, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about a software fix. If you click on the article tab, it will reload with the direct URL. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

May I then request this be escalated into a change-request? -- Hpvpp (talk) 02:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ This may already be poseted, so try a search. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I have submitted a request on bugZilla. -- Hpvpp (talk) 03:29, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Err, why does it matter which URL you send to someone? The link still reaches the content, doesn't it?

If you want to send someone the URL of the target page instead of the redirect, you should navigate to the target page yourself first (which as Gadget850 notes, is easy enough to do by clicking the "article" tab). --MZMcBride (talk) 03:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, considering the number of much more important bugs still pending, I am pretty sure this will stay open for ages to come ;) Whenever I need to copy the address, I use tab-clicking technique as mentioned by Gadget850's, I don't find it that difficult. If you want to skip this step, you could simply right-click the "Article" tab, and click "Copy link location", that costs you no extra clicks... Rehman 08:15, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

This is correct isn't it? The page you went to was a redirect - it displays the URL of the page you went to, not the page of the redirect and is the same for all pages as far as I am aware. Take for example UAV - the page you clicked on (the link) is the URL that you went to, the redirect is a soft redirect which loads the target page content (Unmanned aerial vehicle) rather than changing the URL to Unmanned aerial vehicle.

If the redirect was a hard one (changing the URL) no-one would be able to get to the UAV page to edit it, it would never load as it would always hard redirect. Chaosdruid (talk) 10:22, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this is not a bug and I'm sure the bugzilla report will be closed without anything done.--Atlan (talk) 12:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Not quite. There is always a link back to the redirect on the top of the page, and there is the &redirect=no option. — Edokter (talk) — 15:19, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

This is the desired behaviour, because it aids caching and hitcounting. A redirect is a valid page which should be cached; its contents are very similar to the target, but with the extra 'redirected from' link. And it's useful to be able to track hitcounts for a redirect page as well as the target. Neither of which would be possible if the URL hard-redirected. Happy‑melon 15:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Really tiny text

Resolved

 – Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:46, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

About ten minutes ago, everything on Wikipedia shrunk to about half its normal size. All the text, boxes, buttons etc is now ridiculously tiny and quite difficult to read. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:27, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Browser/OS information please? and is it en.wp or other sites? ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 14:30, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Sitting 10 feet away from your screen will do that.;) Seriously though, everything's fine here.--Atlan (talk) 14:32, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Google Chrome (latest), Windows Vista, Monobook skin. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Check your browser settings for zoom or text size options, and ensure that they are set to default. Also does this happen both logged in and logged out? ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 14:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

That did it. I must have pressed something unintentionally. Thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

On firefox, ctrl + rolling the center mouse roller will cause that. The browsers like copying each other so Chrome might have similar behavior.TStein (talk) 19:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Or Ctrl+- I believe. Gary King (talk · scripts) 19:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Requesting help with {{cite report}}.

{{cite report}} seems to be the neglected little brother of the more popular (web, book, news) citation templates. It's not listed in WP:CT, and it doesn't generate COinS metadata, but there are plenty of places where it's more apropos than {{cite web}}. Is there anyone skilled in the deep arts of template fiddling who can update it to be in line with the capabilities of the more popular templates? grendel|khan 15:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

{{Cite report}} and {{Cite techreport}} aren't little brothers, they are bastard stepchildren. They have a different style, thus should not be used with Citation Style 2 (cite web, book, journal, video, etc.) Both can easily be replaced by {{cite journal}}. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:46, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't quite see how. See here; "Costs and Causes of Zimbabwe's Crisis" isn't in any sense a journal; it's not part of a numbered series. How would you cite that with {{cite journal}}? grendel|khan 18:55, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Quite easily:

cite report

Clemens, Michael (2005-07-20). Costs and Causes of Zimbabwe's Crisis (Report). Center for Global Development. Retrieved 2011-04-04. {{cite report}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

cite journal

Clemens, Michael (2005-07-20). "Costs and Causes of Zimbabwe's Crisis". Center for Global Development. Retrieved 2011-04-04. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

Note the style differences. YYYY-MM-DD is not a recommended date style but that is a separate issue.

---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:51, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Editing semi protected pages with Internet Explorer 8

I originally posted this message at the Helpdesk, but have been advised to being it here. I updated to Internet Explorer 8 this afternoon and discovered an interesting little quirk - I can't edit semi-protected pages, although ordinary pages are fine. Basically, when I open a page the cursor appears for a split second then vanishes and the text box becomes locked. Attempting to type produces no response, other than to scroll down with the space bar. I can type into the page summery box, however. Has anyone else encountered this? Is there a fix for it? Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 18:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I just edited a semi-protected page in IE8 with no problems. Does editing semi-protected pages work fine for you in other browsers, such as Firefox? Then at least we can be certain it's the browser and not a script you have installed or a preference, perhaps, although admittedly I don't know why those would be problems. I just found your other thread at Wikipedia:Help_desk#Semi_protected_pages_and_Internet_Explorer_8 which explains that other browsers are fine. You said you just upgraded to IE8. Have you tried IE9, since that's the latest version of Internet Explorer? Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:34, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Sadly it wouldn't really rule out scripts, or preferences etc. Because there are ways to only apply scripts/styles etc to certain browsers. We know it's not exactly a browser issue anyway, rather it's more like to be an issue with some of the settings RetroGuy is using in IE8 (e.g. a cookie setting, although I did some experimenting with cookies in IE8 just now, the only time it would stop you from editing a protected page is if it's set to block all cookies, which would also stop you from logging in). RetroGuy, when you're editing a semi-protected page (or not) are you still logged in? Does purging fix it? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 18:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I tried "Refresh" if that's the same as purge, but that doesn't seem to help. I was prompted to install IE9, but there was some kind of problem in the process and I was asked to install it manually. I'm not sure where I need to go to look at the Cookie settings so some advice there would be greatly appreciated. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 18:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's instructions on changing cookie settings in IE8. Also, for purge, refer to WP:PURGE. It's not the same as refreshing. Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:50, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Have tried both of these suggestions, but sadly without success. All cookies are enabled, and purge doesn't seem to fix the problem. I think it might be easier to go back to go back to IE7. How do I do that? Do I need to uninstall IE8 then search for IE7 again. TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Really it would be nice to find the issue and fix it, although you are of course free to simply install a different browser, but doing so would make it very difficult for us to find the problem (I guess uninstalling IE8 may allow you to install IE7). I would really appreciate you bearing with us so we can find the issue. So are you seeing this message or this message when attempting to edit? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 19:17, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

And, if you aren't seeing those error messages, perhaps taking a screenshot and showing it to us would make it easier to understand the problem, depending on whether or not there are any useful visual cues that are shown, of course. Also, uninstalling Internet Explorer is usually a fairly complex process since it's a part of the Windows operating system. I found some instructions here. I don't use Windows myself so I'm not familiar with exactly how difficult it might be. Gary King (talk · scripts) 19:23, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh dear, I've just jumped the gun a bit and uninstalled it, but you're right about it being a complicated process. I had to go into the Computer file and do all sorts of right clicking, searching menus, etc, etc. I came to the conclusion that there might be other unseen problems with it and I was better to go back to the tried and tested version.

I don't think uploading a screenshot of it would be of any help as it basically looked like the page should look, but without my being able to type anything into the text box. Neither of the abovementioned templates appeared either. With IE7 back in place it's all working fine again and I can edit everything. I've no idea why it doesn't work with IE8. The only thing I can think is that I downloaded a script error which was causing problems. Thanks for all the suggestions, anyway. TheRetroGuy (talk) 20:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I think also I'm going to start using another browser as there are issues with IE7 which occasionally cause problems. It crashes with YouTube videos, for example, and is far slower and more cumbersome with large pages of text. If you would like me to reinstall IE8 again then I'm happy to do that so we can try some other possible solutions. 8 seems to be a far better version of the browser and would be good if I could get everything to work, but for now I'll go with Google Chrome or Firefox. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 20:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, IE7 is a bit outdated, and I would expect there to be issues with it. I would recommend you install IE8 or IE9, even if you are going to start using Chrome/FF as your default. If you do find you still have to issue with IE8 after reinstalling, I would love to help out. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 20:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

ok, I'll install it again tomorrow afternoon and come back here if the problem re-emerges. At least I now know the problem appears to be with IE8, but I'll have a think about what else it could be, and if for whatever reason we can't diagnose what it is, I am now familiar with how to install and uninstall updates. My system is about 18 months old so it shouldn't be a problem, but I'll see what happens. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I checked with IE8 using a clean, non-admin account and I just don't see the problem. I have IE 6 through 9 available for testing. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Parser function for string operations and variables

I'm trying to do some tricky work with templates and I'm not sure how to proceed. First, I'd like to strip a character off an argument. In this case, given an expression (say in {{{1}}}), return the expression without an initial minus sign.

What I'm trying to avoid is {{#expr:abs({{{1}}})}} which would turn "-1/2" into "0.5" rather than "1/2".

Also, I find myself using the same expressions many times in the same template. I don't suppose it's possible to store those in a temporary variable?

CRGreathouse (t | c) 20:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you could store a common expression in a separate template, say Template:Example/common, depending on what it is. For a substring, use Template:Strr. Gary King (talk · scripts) 21:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! CRGreathouse (t | c) 21:22, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Tutorial

Is it just my computer, or is the tutorial script at Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Tutorial broken? I just tried running the script in safari, using the monobook skin, without success. -FASTILY ^(TALK) 01:03, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

That script doesn't work by itself. As it says, it needs the Add LI link code, too. I'm not sure if it will work even with that, though. Gary King (talk · scripts) 02:39, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Development of a tool for detecting offensive/racist terms

How difficult would it be to develop a tool or tools for detecting offensive terms from sources that may creep in to articles? This is in regard to an India project, a possible solution for which which can be found at - Wikipedia for schools - India version. Per that solution the tool would have to:

1. Look up a repository of sources which contain offensive terms and check the article's references section if they are referenced
2. Directly search the article for offensive terms
3. Check the article history of the article for editors/contributors who have been banned for POV issues.

The article could be flagged if any of the three items above are a match. Zuggernaut (talk) 05:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Edit filter does that type of thing. Suggest dropping a request at Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested and they'll tell you if its possible. Moondyne (talk) 08:40, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Job's comforters

I have an issue that I'm not sure how to resolve, and was hoping someone here could help. The title Job's comforter has for some time been a soft redirect to Wiktionary — but at some point yesterday, an anonymous IP user overwrote the redirect with a dicdef "article" which was soon thereafter reverted back to the redirect. The problem is that this sequence of events caused the article to get picked up by the Untagged Uncategorized Articles list — it would be inappropriate to tag it as {{uncat}}, obviously, but I have to get it off the list somehow and I can't figure out another way.

Does somebody here know how to fix this? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 07:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)