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the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
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compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

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Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

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Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
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Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

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Volunteer Marek

Volunteer Marek warned for incivility. No other action. EdJohnston (talk) 17:30, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Volunteer Marek

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Boothello (talk) 05:08, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Addition of Boothello as a user against whom enforcement is requested: Boothello (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has also been notified that the allegation by Volunteer Marek that his editing activity with respect to race and intelligence is single purpose and point of view is being investigated as a part of this request.[1] User:Fred Bauder Talk 02:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Editors reminded and discretionary sanctions (amended)

Wikipedia:ARBR&I#Decorum

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Note: I'm aware that these diffs are spread over a long period, and that some of the older ones (especially the first one) ordinarily could be considered stale. However, what I'm trying to demonstrate is that Volunteer Marek's incivility and assumptions of bad faith have been an ongoing problem since he became involved in these articles around a month ago, and I think the only way to demonstrate this is with diffs spread over a long period.

April 14 Incivility: "Stay the hell off my talk page. You're not welcome here."
April 25 More incivility: "This "stability" argument is about the dumbest argument I've encountered on Wikipedia (not just here but in some other contexts as well)."
April 24 "Yes, the usual three involved editors, all with accounts which all became operational in October or November 2010, shortly after the Race and Intelligent ArbCom case closed, tag teaming on this and other articles." This comment is a way for Volunteer Marek to say that all of the editors who disagree with him on these articles are actually sockpuppets, without actually saying it.
April 26 "mustihussain, what would another arbitration case do? After it closes and bans and blocks are handed out, we'd just get a fresh crop of SPA accounts that pop up and pretend to be new to these articles, while the watchers loose interest." Another backhanded accusations that I and the other editors disagreeing with Marek are socks, without saying it directly or providing any evidence.
April 26 Volunteer Marek creates an acronym to use as a personal attack against the people who disagree with him: "YAR/IRSPA (Yet Another Race/Intelligence Recent SPA)" (This was his entire response to user:QuintupleTwist)
May 3 "Let me guess, next step is to claim "no consensus" because a bunch of created-right-after-end-of-Arb-Com-case-on-Race-and-Intelligence single purpose accounts will object no matter what." Volunteer Marek posted this comment while unreverting a revert of a contentious change he'd made, without trying to discuss it first. This was his justification for doing that: that the opinions of the editors who disagree with his changes don't matter because of who we are.
May 3 Referring to his previous comment, when his changes were reverted a second time: "And did I call it right, or did I call it right?", while linking to the diff of the revert. Note that contrary to Volunteer Marek's claim, the person who reverted him (User:SightWatcher) is not a single-purpose account. The majority of Sightwatcher's participation is in articles about books and movies: [2]
May 5, May 5 Both of these whole comments are uncivil, but one good example from the second diff is him referring to my own point as "nonsense" and saying "cut the nonsense". Also note in the first diff his again lumping of Sightwatcher into the group that he calls "created-right-after-end-of-Arb-Com-case-on-Race-and-Intelligence single purpose accounts", even though the majority of Sightwatcher's participation is outside this topic area.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on August 8 by Sandstein (talk · contribs) about making attacks against other editors unsupported by evidence (at the time Volunteer Marek was known as Radeksz, but that username now redirects to his current user page). This warning was an enforcement action for a separate arbitration case, but it was for the same type of behavior at issue here. On August 10, Sandstein blocked him for continuing this behavior.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): warning or block

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

It might be helpful for admins to read some of the discussions that Volunteer Marek has been involved in on the talk page of the race and intelligence article. Apart from his incivility, there has been a lot of discussion there about his disregard for the WP:BRD process. When he makes a change to the article with which others disagree, and which is reverted, instead of waiting to discuss it with other editors he immediately reinstates it. For example: [3] and then [4], or [5] and then [6] Volunteer Marek explained in diff #6 above why he does not think he needs to engage in discussion with the editors who disagree with him before reinstating his changes: he disregards our opinions because we haven't been registered for long enough. When I linked him to WP:REVERTING to try and show him that it goes against normal BRD process for him to reinstate changes that have been reverted without waiting for discussion, his response was that he ignores this essay because it was "written by what looks like a clueless naive 12 year old."

By constantly harping on the fact that I (and a few other editors who disagree with him) registered within a few months after the R&I arbitration case, and saying that this discounts our opinions and entitles him to reinstate his changes if we revert them, Volunteer Marek is implying that he thinks we're sockpuppets. If we weren't sockpuppets, how long we've been registered wouldn't be a valid reason for him to do this. Marek could start an SPI if he really believes this, but he's never done so. Instead, he's responded by belittling the editors who disagree with him, and reinstating his changes when we revert them. This makes working collaboratively with him almost impossible.

As linked above, in August Sandstein warned and then blocked Volunteer Marek aka Radeskz for similar behavior. Quoting Sandstein's explanation for the block: "As Russavia's statement correctly notes, the request is additionally disruptive in that it makes veiled allegations of what sounds like serious misconduct on the part of Russavia ("I'm pretty sure something else is going on here which I do not care to discuss on Wiki") without offering any (onwiki) evidence. This is a serious problem given that the Committee, at WP:EEML#Improper coordination and WP:EEML#Radeksz, found that Radeksz has previously been engaged in similar misconduct, and that I yesterday warned Radeksz not to make serious allegations against others without useful evidence." Volunteer Marek's veiled accusation that everyone who disagrees with him on these articles are sockpuppets seems to be a continuation of the same behavior for which Sandstein blocked him.

Response to Marek

Two main points for now:

Part of Marek's argument here seems to be "my conduct was fine because I was right as far as content is concerned," and that there was no reason to remove the content that he added except WP:IDONTLIKEIT. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to address content disputes here. But if we're going to discuss content, it needs to be pointed out that most of the content added by Marek was eventually opposed by the majority of editors who have been involved in the article for a lot longer than me or Marek. In the example he mentioned involving the Pioneer Fund, the content he added was opposed by Maunus [7] VsevelodKrolikov, [8] and Victor Chmara [9] Admins can see from reading these diffs what the reasons were for removing this material, and that it was not just because of "no consensus." As Maunus and Victor Chmara explained, the problem is that all of these researchers have many different affiliations, and it isn't neutral to single out the Pioneer Fund and mention none of their other affiliations. Marek has not made any attempt to respond to this argument. His characterizing the reasons for removing this material as IDONTLIKEIT, and ignoring the actual reasons that were given, is a good example of the attitude that makes working collaboratively with him difficult.

Marek does not seem consistent about whether or not can assume good faith about the newish editors that he listed. For the purpose of this report, he says he doesn't know whether we're editing in good faith or not. However, in diff #4 he referred to a "crop of SPA accounts that pop up and pretend to be new to these articles" - what does it mean for us to "pretend" to be new if he isn't claiming that we're trying to conceal earlier involvement under different names? More importantly, in diffs #3 and #6 he used the fact that we registered somewhat recently as a justification to discount our opinions and to unrevert any time one of us reverts him. If treating an editor this way because of how long they've been registered isn't an assumption of bad faith, then it's WP:BITE behavior, which is just as bad.

Response to Piotrus

In light of the history of this topic area, I can somewhat understand suspicion about new editors. That said, if submitting to an SPI is necessary to clear my name, then that's fine. My status as an "SPA" is due mostly due to the fact that this relates to my area of study at university, and it's a topic area that clearly could benefit from improvement. I was not aware at first that SPAs are frowned upon here and I'm still not entirely sure why they are. But given that they are, I recently received some advice from Maunus to try and edit in other topics a bit, which I intend to follow if time and interest permits. As for my knowledge about the history of this topic area and policy in general, these things are not difficult to learn by reading and researching page histories, user contributions, block logs, and the many DR processes that have taken place in this topic area, including (obviously) the big R&I arbitration case. Learning how to lay out an AE thread is pretty easy when you read the page on it and then look at the formatting and procedure for prior threads.

Even so, I do not believe my editing to be tendentious. This is my area of study, but I am not socially or politically invested in the topic. I have been very careful to remain calm and civil, and I've never reverted anything more than twice in a 24-hour period. As I pointed out previously, my standpoint regarding Marek's insertion of the PF line was supported by several other seasoned, respected, non SPA-editors. If anyone can offer me specific advice for how to improve my editing or conduct, rather than just nebulous accusations of POV-pushing or tendentiousness, I will certainly listen.

Additional comments

Since there seems to be some suspicion about my level of experience with Wikipedia in general, I should mention that I lurked here (and sometimes edited) for a long time before creating this account. I’m a reformed former vandal. I was previously active as the IP 24.60.23.30 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and since July 2009 I used to mess around on various articles making edits that should have been in the sandbox. I didn't want to get into this because of possible outing issues, but the majority of my Wikipedia knowledge comes from a college class wherein the professor was encouraging us to learn how to use Wikipedia kind of similar to these projects WP:SUP but with less direct involvement. So I registered an account and stopped vandalizing, although until last month my roommate still occasionally used this IP for less than stellar edits. Last month I asked him to stop, so there should be no more vandalism from this IP from now on.

If anyone does not believe that this IP is me, there are a few edits from it such as [10] and [11] where I meant to post from my account but forgot to log in. I did not first become active at Wikipedia in November 2010. As can be seen from the IP's contributions, I have been here since July 2009. November 2010 is when I registered an account, stopped vandalizing, and began trying to actually improve articles here. It's more than a little frustrating that this change of heart is causing more suspicion, not less. I would like to edit the topic area I know best. I am a psychology student and a radio producer in Boston, and I'd like to keep Wikipedia separate from real life. It's frankly a bit ridiculous that accusations are being leveled at me because I know how to use proper formatting etc. As I said before, if you want to start an SPI, please feel free.

Comments on Volunteer Marek's content editing

I hoped this AE thread would be a fairly brief matter of getting Volunteer Marek warned for incivility. But now that it's turning into something more complicated, and Fred Bauder wants to look into whether POV-pushing has been happening, I think we also need to discuss Volunteer Marek's content editing patterns.

[12] [13] [14] [15] [16] These are five edits on five different articles, in which Marek has added the same accusation against the Pioneer Fund to every article he's participated in that mentions it. I don't have any reason to doubt that the sources support this material, but adding the exact same accusation of racism to five different articles is borderline soapboxing. Additionally, although on the J. Philippe Rushton article this information is presented as criticism of Rushton (it's mentioned in the same sentence that Rushton is the fund's current president), several of these sources don't mention Rushton, or mention him only in passing without criticizing him. Using a source as criticism of a living person, when the source does not actually criticize that person, smacks of WP:SYNTHESIS. I explained this in more detail on the talk page here. With this in mind, I tried removing the sources that don't mention Rushton and changed the material to match the remaining sources that actually are criticizing him, but as usual Marek immediately reinstated his material.

Marek has also added similar accusations of racism against individuals rather than institutions. [17] [18] As can be seen from their articles, Hans Eysenck and Corrado Gini are known for a lot more than racism and eugenics, but the most negative information available about them is the only information that Marek thinks is worth mentioning. In Eysenck's case, at least one other (uninvolved) person has complained to Marek about this in his user talk: [19] [20]

But when there is well-sourced information defending these individuals or institutions? Marek removed that. [21] [22] I think the second edit is especially telling because this information had previously been in the article for months, and Marek's rationale for removing it was completely nonsensical. The source for the information that he removed is Ullica Segerstrale, who is a very well-respected academic, and nobody considers her "crazy."

No doubt Marek could come up with an individual justification for some of these edits, but what matters is the overall pattern, and the pattern is not hard to see. The apparent purpose of Marek's involvement in this topic area is to add accusations of racism against individuals and institutions that support viewpoints he doesn't like. Also sometimes to remove sourced content that defends them or makes accusations against people with whom he agrees. The material that he adds is usually supported by the sources, but the sources are also always polemical, and as Fred Bauder pointed out, his argument for including it is generally just "it's in the book."

Marek's editing looks like a mirror image of Miradre, who tried to add material defending these individuals and sometimes removed well-sourced criticism of them. The main differences are that Miradre was more civil than Marek, he was an SPA, and as Tijfo098 pointed out Miradre also made some unequivocally useful contributions in this topic area. Ultimately, Miradre's editing was judged to be tendentious enough that he was warned for it. [23] If AE ends up concluding that Miradre's behavior warranted a warning but that Marek's doesn't, it is going to cast some doubt on whether AE can neutrally enforce policy without showing favoritism toward individuals based on what their viewpoint is.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[24]

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Sigh. Boothello has been engaged in tendentious editing related to Race and Intelligence. He has repeatedly removed well-sourced content from these article based solely on WP:IDON'TLIKEIT grounds:

removing sourced content, falsely pretending that discussion on talk has resolved the issue (subsequent RfC did - against Boothello
removing reliably sourced content under pretense of "no consensus", along with this [25] and this, this constitutes slow motion edit-warring.
Canvassing [26] [27]. The phrasing Edits like this [28] which I reverted, and other edits on articles in this topic area like these [29] [30] (which I brought up on the talk and tried to explain what's a problem with them) would benefit from having another set of eyes on them. is pretty much an indirect, and somewhat sneaky way of asking these users for tag-team reverts. Note that while User:SightWatcher was not canvassed on-Wiki as far as I can see, he did in fact show up soon after and make this revert [31].
removing relevant and well sourced info
removing sourced content based on original research presented at talk and "I don't like it"
[32] [33] [34] removing sourced content, despite numerous sources provided on talk [35]. Here is the RfC where every uninvolved editor disagreed with Boothello [36].
removing sourced content.
misleading edit summary. Note that Boothello calls an assertion unsourced, removes some texts, re-inserts the assertion way down in the article and then sources it. This looks more like removing text and trying to hide it within an article.
weaseling and pov pushing. Note that the inserted statement, AFAIK, is also untrue. Horowitz didn't defend the book itself, just the right to publish it.
removing reliably sourced content under false pretenses with a misleading edit summary. Boothello removes two paragraphs claiming that "Eugenics.org" is a self published source. This is true, but there's three or four other sources in those two paragraphs. More over - these are reviews of the book so using the actual reviews (i.e. "self-published" in a book by a particular author) makes sense.
POV pushing, poisoning the well - an attempt to suggest that the only people who have disagreed with a piece of racist research have been "Marxists".
removing sourced content per IDON'TLIKEIT. This time the pretext is that this is an image - correct thing to do would've been to expand article text, as the image is clearly relevant and caption well sourced.

(placeholder for more diffs)

Out of the specific accusations provided above:

1. I get to decide which comments stay on my talk page and which don't. In this particular instance, I had just told this particular editor that I did not wish to have any interaction with him [37]. He then came and posted on my talk page. I removed it. To put it quite simply, since this is the "Race and Intelligence" topic area, there's some people that I simply do not wish to interact with because of the views they hold. I can't completely avoid that on article talk pages, but there is no reason why I need to provide my own talk page as another forum for their views.

2. Is not a personal attack directed at anyone in particular, but simply my view on this whole "stability" argument (and it is a dumb argument - I can find half a dozen Wikipedia pages that have been "stable" for a long time but which are total junk)

3-6. This is about me stating the easily verifiable fact that virtually all accounts, including Boothello, on the so-called "herediterian" side of this dispute have been started soon after the conclusion of the Race & Intelligence case, and pretty much all of them stick to editing articles related to Race and Race issues (notwithstanding a few "legitimizing" edits in other topics made once in a while to justify their presence). I will address that in a bit more detail below, but for now, just note that nowhere did I state that these guys are sock puppets. That's just Boothello's imagination - but I am not responsible for that. Honestly, I have no idea whether these are sock puppets, meat puppets or "clean starters" or even folks who just accidentally happened to start their account just as the R&I case was concluding.

Please also note, that my comments here, though I was not explicit about it at the time, were also motivated by the fact that I was aware that Boothello has been canvassing some of these very accounts to intervene on the article on his behalf [38], [39]. It was soon after these canvassing posts were left on these users' pages that SightWatcher showed up.

7. This has been the tactic employed by the above accounts. When an edit they don't like is made, even if it is well cited to a reliable source, one of them removes it citing "no consensus". If someone else restores the edit, then they cycle through and revert always claiming "no consensus". No matter what is said, what kind of argument is made, what kind of sources are provided it's always "no consenus". There isn't a chance at all that they will agree to any kind of edit that is critical of the herediterian view which holds that Blacks are just naturally, genetically, dumber than Whites on these articles. So there's always "no consensus", even if the text being added is cited to very reliable sources.

8. Note that Boothello was actually the first person to use the designation "nonsense" in a bad faith misrepresentation of my edits. I stated that he should not remove text cited to reliable sources. He replied "oh so you're saying that you can add any old nonsense to the article you want". See the problem with that line of argument? He then said that I was saying that "all herediterians have connections with the Pioneer Fund" (a racist organization). This is false - what I said was that all the people listed in the lede had connections with the Pioneer Fund, which they did (and the source specifically discussed their affiliation with the organization). So he was misrepresenting what I was saying. For like a third or fourth time in the row. My patience was running thin, true - but there's no incivility in my post. (I also suggest reading the first diff provided here, which describes the situation quite well I think)

Response to "additional comments"

All this shows is that after somebody removed well sourced text without discussion and for what looked like IDON'TLIKEIT reasons I restored it. Let me stress again that this was sourced text, faithful to the source. The actual problem is with editors who continuously remove sourced text, in violation of WP:NPOV and WP:TE.

WP:REVERTING is in fact an essay, and one which I disagree with. Here's another essay I disagree with: Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, revert, revert. This essay I find pretty pointless: Wikipedia:About essay searching. On the other hand, here is an essay I find particularly relevant to this discussion: Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing (#1 check, #2 check, #3 sort of check, #4 check, #5 really big check, #6 even bigger check, #7 let others decide if that's a check, #8 ok, not really a check, #9 check, #10 well that'd be this very report). Also see WP:SFoD (that's one of mine)

The final part of Boothello's statement is nothing but poisoning the well and is completely irrelevant here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:59, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

R/I Case and new SPA accounts

The Race and Intelligence Arbitration Case ended at the end of August, 2010 [40]

Boothello (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (filer) - account created Nov 8, 2010. 164 edits [41]. 99% of them related to race and intelligence.
SightWatcher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - account created Oct 12, 2010. 439 edits [42]. First 15 edits not related to Race and Intelliegence, but then jumps in head first. True, about 200 of the edits are non-Race and Intelligence related. But the nature of the edits which are speaks for itself and folks can draw their own conclusions.
Miradre (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - account created Oct 10, 2010. 5968 edits [43]. I can't find a single edit which is not Race/Intelligence related.
174.97.236.49 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - first edit March 11, 2011, but this being an IP it's impossible to say when the person became active. All edits related to Race and Intelligence.
QuintupleTwist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - first edit January 2011. All but 9 edits related to Race/Intelligence.
71.65.235.88 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - first edit Dec 10, 2010. 50+ edits. All of them on Race/Intelligence [44]

There are also several other users/accounts which had also been created shortly after the ArbCom R/I case and which have edited pretty much R/I articles but since they are not mentioned in this report above I do not think it's necessary to bring them into this.

Of the above, Boothello and Miradre were in fact created soon after the conclusion of the ArbCom case and do edit exclusively on Race/Intelligence topics. SightWatcher was also created soon after the conclusion of the ArbCom case. He actually edits in two areas - films and Race/Intelligence, but his connection to this particular topic area is well known. The other two users are of more recent vintage but are also focused exclusively on R/I topics with the same POV as others.

Hence my characterization above was pretty much correct. Note, again, I did not say that any of these were sock puppets. I'm not a checkuser so I have no way of knowing. They could be. They could be meat puppets. They could be new recruits resulting from the ArbCom case itself. They could be "clean starters" - users who had not been sanctioned but who abandoned their old accounts to have a "clean start" (perfectly within policy ... unless same old conflicts arise). I guess there is a chance that one account was just accidentally created at this particular time. But the probability that all of these, or even just those 3, accounts were created just as the R/I case closed simply by coincidence is very very low. (If the probability of a single new account appearing at this particular time is, say, 25% (which would be HUGE - more like 5%), then the probability that all three appeared at this particular time would be only 1.56%). It is what it is and there's no sense of Boothello trying to shoot the messenger here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please also see this discussion [45] and specifically these comments by Shell Kinney [46] [47] as they relate to the incidence of meat puppetry in this area. In fact, Shell stated in regard to some of the known meat-puppets in this area: They've not been blocked because we want to give them a chance to become editors in their own right... but if they continue with their disputes or other issues in the topic area, they will be banned from the topic area as well. Best I can make out from the discussion, this statement applies to SightWatcher in particular - who obviously "continues with the disputes or other issues in the topic area" - but probably also other editors of that kind.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:55, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Fred All books and sources have a POV, that's never been (nor should it be) a criteria for inclusion. The criteria is whether or not a source is reliable, which here, it is. Also, it's pretty common knowledge within the field that the people listed in the text are all associated with the Pioneer Fund. For each individual a half dozen sources - many "less POV" then this one you're objecting to - could be found. The source I used in particular had the advantage of discussing ALL of these individuals in one place simultaneously. So by using it I was making sure that nobody tries to accuse me of violating WP:SYNTH.

I would also like to point out that I was quite amenable to different wording and, of course, to the inclusion of other non-PF names into the text. At the same time, there is a group of researchers who are associated with an organization that has been often been labeled as "racist", this is an article on "Race and Intelligence", some of the editors involved often try to pass of the works of these researchers as reliable or outright promote them on Wikipedia - for all these reasons, the association of these individuals with PF is a very important piece of info.

But this is something to be discussed on the talk page of the article not here. The new SPA accounts which took over right where the editors who got banned in the R&I case left off have been shown lots and lots of patience. Some of them have admitted to having edited before, while others were shown to be meat puppets of banned editors (see the AN/I thread I linked to above, as well as Shell's comment). I do think that if articles in this area are ever going to be cleaned up, or at least, cleaned up before they end up making Wikipedia look like a laughing stock and a forum for scientific racism, then, yes, a bit of boldness is needed. Allow me to point out that boldness, and being critical, is not the same as incivility which is the basis for this report, but which I did not engage in.

Oh yeah, I might as well point out that technically, I was never notified of the R&I discretionary sanctions, but, you know what, I'm not gonna Wikilawyer that.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Boothello's second statement

All the diffs provided by Bh (by Maunus, Vsevolod and Victor) came later on, long after I made any edits to the article. Furthermore Maunus is speaking in general - that PF shouldn't be overemphasized - not that that particular mention of PF was incorrect.

WP:AGF and WP:BITE are not supposed to be a cover for suspicious behavior. There is in fact a history of meat-puppetry in this topic area [48] and WP:DUCK applies.

And to the third

I see that I'm gonna have to waste more of my time responding to Boothello's spurious accusations. Let's see...

[106] [107] [108] [109] [110] These are five edits on five different articles, in which Marek has added the same accusation against the Pioneer Fund to every article he's participated in that mentions it. I don't have any reason to doubt that the sources support this material, but adding the exact same accusation of racism to five different articles is borderline soapboxing. - yes I added roughly the same information to five different articles. Yes, in each case it was highly relevant and important to the topic. Yes, the sources most certainly support the material. No, this is not soapboxing, Boothello does not seem to know what soapboxing is.
several of these sources don't mention Rushton, or mention him only in passing without criticizing him. Using a source as criticism of a living person, when the source does not actually criticize that person, smacks of WP:SYNTHESIS. I explained this in more detail on the talk page here. With this in mind, I tried removing the sources that don't mention Rushton and changed the material to match the remaining sources that actually are criticizing him, but as usual Marek immediately reinstated his material. - no, that's not what happened. I listed about a dozen sources to back it up on the talk page [49]. I didn't think it necessary to add the whole dozen to the article (to make it look like this [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]) so I just picked two or so. Because one (out of a dozen) of the sources is criticizing PF in general (of which Rushton is a the head) and not Rushton specifically Boothello's made a big deal out of it, accused me of SYNTH and completely ignored the other sources I provided. An RFC was opened [50], at least three editors agreed with me and not with Boothello [51]. Why is this being brought up here? If anything this is evidence of Boothello's IDIDN'THEARTHAT attitude.
Marek has also added similar accusations of racism against individuals rather than institutions. [111] [112] As can be seen from their articles, Hans Eysenck and Corrado Gini are known for a lot more than racism and eugenics, but the most negative information available about them is the only information that Marek thinks is worth mentioning. - yet another total misrepresentation (and yes, I am getting quite irritated by this). I did not add accusations of racism to Eysenck's and Gini's articles, where, I agree it might be undue. However, Eysenck's and Gini's views on race are very relevant in an article related to Race & Intelligence. This is common sense. The "complaint" Boothello links to wasn't much of a complaint - hell, the person leaving it qualified it with a statement feel free to disregard, as I don't know the full context).
Marek removed that. [115] [116] I think the second edit is especially telling because this information had previously been in the article for months, and Marek's rationale for removing it was completely nonsensical. The source for the information that he removed is Ullica Segerstrale, who is a very well-respected academic, and nobody considers her "crazy." - alright. I'm starting to get pissed now. This is the second time that Boothello is repeating this, after I explained it to him already, which means he is knowingly misrepresenting facts - i.e. blatantly lying. Here is my explanation to Boothello [52] Also, I would appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent my statement. I didn't say Ullica Segerstrale was part of the "crazy part" of the ideological spectrum. What I said is that all kinds of non-crazy people - not just those associated with Marxism - have criticized this racist research. What I obviously meant was that maybe Marxists were "crazy" (according to some) but they were not the only ones criticizing racist research. (This was in response to this comment from Boothello [53] in which he calls my edit summary "nonsensical" - exactly what he thinks is "incivil" if I do it). He responded to this comment [54], hence he saw it and saw my explanation. Yet, he tries to misrepresent it again here. How does one have an honest conversation with such a person?
No doubt Marek could come up with an individual justification for some of these edits, but what matters is the overall pattern - no, the overall pattern is the sum of its parts. And every single one of these edits is legitimate, and article-improving. Boothello is misrepresenting them.
The apparent purpose of Marek's involvement in this topic area is to add accusations of racism against individuals and institutions that support viewpoints he doesn't like. - uh, the apparent purpose of my involvement in this topic area (a topic area called RACE AND INTELLIGENCE) is to add information on the racist views held by racist individuals - and that ain't me calling anyone racist, it's multitudes of reliable sources. Boothello and his friends try to remove this information per IDON'TLIKEIT. But yes, I don't "like" these viewpoints. Does anyone here like these viewpoints?
sources are also always polemical - bullshit. At most the one source mentioned by Fred was "polemical" (yet still reliable). Boothello is making things up; note this is completely unbacked by any kind of evidence.
Marek's editing looks like a mirror image of Miradre - I can take that as either a personal attack or a compliment. I'm just gonna ignore it.

As it may be apparent from my statement above, I consider Boothello's newest batch of accusations to be extremely manipulative, misrepresentative, false and in a few places seemingly purposefully so. Below Fred suggested filing an AE report on other editors so that their behavior can be examined. Since I think these kind of tactics are fairly representative of Boothello's general behavior in this topic area, my response above, along with other evidence, can very well be made into an AE report, unless, per BorisG, this is dealt with here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Volunteer Marek

Comments by Piotrus

I find it very curious that Boothello (talk · contribs), an account with <500 edits that begun editing only half a year ago (November 7, 2010) is displaying such an extensive knowledge of our our DR/AE policies to be able to fill in such a detailed report, worthy of an experienced Wikipedian. I see that up till now he has only commented on AE once, and did not comment in any other Wikipedia namespace other than two AfDs. The user has never commented in the Wikipedia talk namespace. His user talk namespace interactions are very limited, dating only to this April, and numbering <20 edits. Despite that, Boothello reports has diffs, links, uses WP:ABBREVIATIONS, templates (user), and shows he understand DR well enough to research and present history of sanctions against a user who has had a (sanctioned) name change. I am not familiar with the Race and Intelligence case, but I'd strongly advise the admins to investigate this as a SPI sock; ditto for QuintupleTwist (talk · contribs) (WP:DUCK/WP:SPADE is quite loud here).

At the same time, I'd advise VM to be less forthcoming with accusing others of being SPIs on regular discussion pages. If concerns arise, I'd suggest bringing them to a DR forum and/or consulting with admin who knows how to handle SPIs first. Commenting on a talk page does little rather than inflame the situation and give ammunition to the culprits, who can (as here) try to claim they have been "personally attacked" (by being called for what they are...but in the wrong place...sigh). Per DUCK/SPADE, I'd hope that admins here would focus on taking care of the ban-evading SPIs rather than shooting the messenger. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:36, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Boothello's response. You write: "If anyone can offer me specific advice for how to improve my editing or conduct...". Simply, trying to talk things over through mediation would be much nicer then launching an AE, which suggests bad faith and an attempt to win a dispute through administrative procedures. (Not saying that all or most AE requests are like that, but they usually involve editors previously sanctioned in specific areas, which does not apply to either of you, AFAIK). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 04:04, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by aprock

I think the most discouraging aspect of this case is the mention of sloth and laziness. The enforcement of disruptive behavior evidenced by egregious policy violations has never been a serious problem. Obvious problem editors are handled properly and effectively. The problem is that this topic is plagued by WP:CPUSH editors. This has generally taken the form of non-neutral single purpose editors who advocate for promoting their own viewpoint through the misuse of sources. While edit warring is one tactic taken by these editors, the more problematic behavior is the persistent pov pushing and incessant over emphasis on controversial sources.

I appreciate that actually going to the talk page to review the behavior of all parties requires a non-trivial amount of time and energy, but when faced with the problem of civil pov pushing WP:CPUSH, simple diffs are not going to be sufficient to communicate the extent of disruption. In that vein, instead of offering diffs, I suggest that any admin wishing to review the situation read the talk page at Race and intelligence, specifically:

I realize that's a fair amount of reading to undertake. But that's one aspect of civil pov pushing. By creating mountains of discussion without moving forward in a collaborative way, ignoring policy, and ignoring editors, disruption can be cloaked. When I have a chance, I'll go back and give a brief summary of all the sections above to at least aid in separating some of the signal and noise.

Note, that there are a lot of editors that participated in the above discussions. I think the behavior of all participating editors, including myself, should be scrutinized, and that any disruptive behavior handled appropriately. aprock (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Vecrumba

The R&I articles have long been an area of contention. I have not been active there for a while, however, generally speaking my participation there was seen as thoughtful and constructive. I regret that looking at Boothello's edit history and command of WP:ALPHABETSOUP they appear to be someone returning to R&I under a new persona, and the attempt to control content through AE requests points, equally, to a veteran of past R&I conflicts. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 01:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Fred Bauder

The discussion on the talk page, Talk:Race_and_intelligence#all_of_them_ARE_in_fact_associated_with_PF of the disputed edit seems quite incomplete in that a number of obvious alternatives were not discussed. The title, "all of them ARE in fact associated with PF", chosen by Volunteer Marek, is quite argumentative so the conversation kind of gets off on the wrong foot. The source, The race gallery: the return of racial science, obviously has a debunking point of view which seeks to characterize research in this area and link it to discredited ideology. These and other considerations, such as Pioneer Fund being the source of most funding for research could all be considered with respect to how to characterize the role of Pioneer Fund and those associated with it and the research and researchers it has funded. Volunteer Marek is not being very patient and seems unwilling to consider alternatives. He is presumably correct that the material is in a book, but it is a POV book, thus raising questions about how to handle the sourced "fact" which need to be discussed patiently and at length, not short-circuited by a simple assertion that "It's in the book". Editing in an emotionally and politically charged area such as race and intelligence may require more patience than Volunteer Marek has and a topic ban might be appropriate it that is, in fact, found to be the case. User:Fred Bauder Talk 09:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a fan of simply removing a sourced reference either, on the ground that there is no "consensus"; the last I heard reality is not determined by consensus. The role of the Pioneer Fund seems significant and some researchers are associated with it; the question is how to integrate that sourced information into the article in an appropriate way; for example, in a section rather than in the lead, or with qualifying language such as many researchers are associated with or funded by the Pioneer Fund. Bottom line, it's not black and white and if someone can't get beyond black and white thinking they probably should not be trying to edit the article. User:Fred Bauder Talk 09:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Race and intelligence talk page notice is at the top of Talk:Race_and_intelligence. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

However it is possible you have not received a proper warning as required by Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Warnings. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If there are meatpuppetss and SPAs that needs to be dealt with here, not by adopting an ugly attitude. Reasonable courtesy and good faith is required by the specific terms of the arbitration decision. Being unable to definitely link new accounts to the accounts banned from the topic by the arbitration decision is not a barrier to enforcing those bans on new SPA accounts, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Regarding_Ted_Kennedy#Sockpuppets. Hard as may be to maintain it, a user needs to have sufficient faith in administrators' integrity to bring problems up here, not take an attitude that nothing will be done. Engaging in aggressive behavior with the excuse that nothing has been done or would be done when you yourself have done nothing is not acceptable. If you think there are special purpose accounts who are or should be subject to the topic bans imposed on this area bring it up here. Each individual account should receive a warning regarding aggressive tendentious editing in this area by special purpose accounts. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle is an essay, not policy. No one is obligated to "respect" it or conform to it. However, when someone is encountered who thinks it's a good way to proceed, it may be wise to try it out. It may work well with them. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:03, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Boothello

Boothello (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) began editing November 8, 2010, a few months after the decision in the arbitration case was finalized. His first few edits, all in areas related to race are wikignomish but display a sophisticated knowledge of simply Wikipedia templates. Obviously the account is an alternative account of an experienced Wikipedia editor. 02:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If Boothello's explanation of the sudden appearance of his account is accepted the question remains as to whether edits by Boothello have been so disruptive that standard discretionary sanctions should be applied, see Wikipedia:ARBR&I#Case_amendments. I think analysis of their editing patter viewed a whole is required. But perhaps I making too much work out of it. Some egregious examples of POV or disruptive editing might settle the matter. User:Fred Bauder Talk 11:28, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edits in November 2010 show knowledge of subject[55] and of pro-relationship literature[56] and a measure of sympathy for a pro user who was edit warring a bit,[57] and banned for it as a sock, User:BT35. User:Fred Bauder Talk 01:34, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by BorisG

@Fred: I am not sure filing of separate cases is necessary. There is a warning at the top of this page that if you come here with unclean hands you will bear the consequencies, and that the record of ALL parties will be scrutinised. Thus the record of Boothello can and should be scrutinised here and now. Third parties can be handled separately. I suggest to VM to submit, at the bottom of his statement, a concise evidence regarding Boothello to be examined by admins. Not necessarily by Fred. Does this make sense? - BorisG (talk) 04:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Boothello: your latest statement about your prior history just confirms that suspicions of your past involvement with Wikipedia were not unfounded. I know nothing about this topic and its history, and so cannot judge whether this clears up your entire story (though you do sound convincing). But given your own admitted history, filing a case against an established editor on the grounds of borderline incivility does not seem like a wise move. Rather it looks like an attempt to solve a content dispute by banning an opposing editor. While VM could indeed be advised to be more careful with summary allegations, you don't show yourself in a good light, in my view. - BorisG (talk) 05:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning other accounts that Volunteer Marek alleges are editing disruptively

Until specific allegations have been made and notification made comment is inappropriate.

SightWatcher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - account created Oct 12, 2010. 439 edits [58]. First 15 edits not related to Race and Intelliegence, but then jumps in head first. True, about 200 of the edits are non-Race and Intelligence related. But the nature of the edits which are speaks for itself and folks can draw their own conclusions.
Miradre (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - account created Oct 10, 2010. 5968 edits [59]. I can't find a single edit which is not Race/Intelligence related.

I initially had a good impression of Miradre because of him cleaning up some unverifiable statements at Ashkenazi intelligence; and so had other editors it seems. On the other hand, Miradre's insistence on removing accusations of racism from J. Philippe Rushton seemed suspicious. It's true that he only argued to remove indirect accusations, but I had little trouble finding direct ones myself. [60] (supported by the sources already cited in the article) Tijfo098 (talk) 03:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No specific allegations have been made with respect to Miradre and no notification of this proceeding has been given to Miradre. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

174.97.236.49 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - first edit March 11, 2011, but this being an IP it's impossible to say when the person became active. All edits related to Race and Intelligence.
QuintupleTwist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - first edit January 2011. All but 9 edits related to Race/Intelligence.
71.65.235.88 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - first edit Dec 10, 2010. 50+ edits. All of them on Race/Intelligence [61]

Comments by Mathsci

I requested an SPI/CU on QuintupleTwist at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mikemikev. He has been identified as an indefinitely blocked user Bob19842 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), with site-banned Mikemikev as the likely puppetmaster of both accounts. So presumably that account will soon be blocked indefinitely.
Recently issues have arisen off-wiki connected with the accounts of SightWatcher and Ferahgo the Assassin. I have forwarded details to Shell Kinney as well as the arbitration committee mailing list. Mathsci (talk) 13:34, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Miradre stopped editing on 22 April after a period of intense activity. She/he had a logged notification of WP:ARBR&I from 2over0. [62]. There was a recent extensive discussion [63] about Miradre's editing on this noticeboard (pace Tijfo098's comments above), No action was taken because it was unclear whether WP:ARBR&I applied to articles like Race and crime. Clarification was later sought from ArbCom, who passed a motion as a result. Mathsci (talk) 03:33, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Volunteer Marek

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Proposed result, please comment

Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs) is warned that he may be banned from editing with respect to the topic of race and intelligence if he fails to extend good faith and reasonable courtesy to others who edit with relationship to that topic. He is required to bring complaints about alleged special purpose accounts or established accounts who he feels are engaged in aggressive tendentious editing the topic of race and intelligence which violate the decision in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race_and_intelligence#Remedies to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement or some other appropriate forum. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:12, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

From my talk page:

Disappointed:

You know, Fred, I always thought you were one of the more clear minded and big picture guys around here, but this is disappointing. You are picking up on a good editor, and ignoring the SPI/sock issues. This is very much "lets focus on the letter of the policies and ignore their spirit and the good of the project" bureaucratic attitude ("I don't care if you discovered a terrorist nuclear plot, you filled in the wrong form to report this and you'll be fined for that") that I did not expect from you :( --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, but I plead sloth: it is easy to determine that Volunteer Marek is being rude; it is hard work to determine if a number of other accounts are violating the arbitration decision in a broad way, especially when Volunteer Marek is not naming names and providing evidence. And by the way, 24 is a TV program. Controversy regarding race and intelligence is not time limited, in fact, it appears to be perpetual. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Closing:

Per my statement above, Volunteer Marek is warned. No other sanctions. Editors who remain concerned about civil POV pushing on race and intelligence by the single purpose accounts listed above, including Boothello, may consider filing new AE reports with complete diffs. Admins are unlikely to search through hundreds of edits on their own to look for possible misbehavior. When considering which accounts to be most worried about, I recommend looking at their edit count. You should also check whether they've made any well-sourced contributions that seem to improve the articles. EdJohnston (talk) 16:54, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nableezy

Nableezy topic-banned from P/I for 2 months. AGK [•] 20:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Nableezy

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: AgadaUrbanit (talk) 18:26, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

At administrator's discretion

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The editor is just out of their yet another topic ban and back home to pattern of WP:DE. While in topic ban the editor did not produce any significant contribution to the project. The editor disregards civility and engaged in slow motion WP:EW denying WP:Consensus and WP:BRD as appropriate WP:DR procedure, which might appear as WP:GAMING. The disruption which spells WP:IDHT is across multiple articles in I/P topic area, though I have gathered diffs for Ramot and Quds Day article, where East Jerusalem is pushed as a fact into the lede.

I am involved in Ramot. EJ is pushed as a fact location, where actually the source used as ref "They began planting neighborhoods such as Ramot Allon on annexed West Bank land..." says West Bank.

Long discussion follows, during which the editor prefers to discuss contributors and not contribution. Finally stating: BRD is an essay, it has no special status that allows you to choose the lead. "No consensus" is not a valid reason to revert. I ask again, do you have any sources that contradict the many sources that say the settlement is in EJ? The final revert WP:ES is typical: this is silly, you havent given any sources disputing any aspect of the lead. brd is not a tool to filibuster any movement of the article

Similar edit pattern could be seen at Quds Day, where I have never been involved, the editor is pushing East Jerusalem into the lede.

Long discussion, involving 3rd opinion intervention, the discussion is disregarded.

Notification to editor of this discussion

Due diligence: Initially I've been WP:SPA and have WP:EW history at Gaza War with editor in question. Topic ban which since expired helped me to realize I've been lame and helped me to contribute more constructively to Wikipedia

Comment I do not want this discussion to devolve into regular food fight between partisan parties and generally prefer clean talk environment. I would perform a voluntary halt to all my Ramot article editing while this request is being looked into. I feel that an objective of talk page discussion is WP:DR. and imho a constructive way to move forward was suggested more than once. There's little point discussing the issue of location/political definition on multiple article pages of Ring Neighborhoods, Jerusalem topic. I still believe that if we want to resolve the issue with minimal risk of triggering edit warring across an entire set of articles, WP:IPCOLL seems like the best place. Honestly I'm not sure why this proposal was rejected.
I realize that this is not a forum to decide on content disputes, however I'd like to address a reason why the editor's edits were opposed both in Ramot and Quds Day. The edits presented POV as a fact. The editor provided multiple sources, however there were conflicting sources brought during discussion on the talk page. My line of thought was that opinions should be fairly attributed. The point is that ignoring some sources and claiming others as a fact is not NPOV and unacceptable in Wikipedia project.

Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view. NPOV is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and of other Wikimedia projects. This policy is non-negotiable and all editors and articles must follow it.

I am aware of WP:Boomerang and realize I could be sanctioned for this request. With that I want to assure everybody that my intention is less disruptive I/P environment where WP:BRD and WP:CONSENSUS do matter and people try to be WP:CIVIL. Imho currently we see that discussions go and go in persistent and well known POV circles, which do not contribute to I/P topic articles content Oh well, c'est la vie. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 21:08, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on ギリギリ violations Generally agree with User:Cla68 observation on Ramot. Honestly I fucked up there. With that Ring Neighborhoods, Jerusalem topic is a new frontier. Another interesting organic topic, full of juice and sweetness and agreeable odour, being turned into an automaton might be Keep your eye on the ball. This topic got promoted to WP:Activist, See also, when I first noticed it. And surprise, surprise another discussion started as topic ban expires. Previous consensus is No consensus means no map.

Bold edit
My revert
Editor's Revert.
3d party warning :Regarding this revert at Golan Heights, as a veteran editor who's been sanctioned in the past and who frequently warns other users about violations of I/P policy, you're expected to know that "All editors...and are required to discuss any content reversions on the article talk page." A message to that effect appears both when editing the article itself as well as on the Talk page.. Anyway, please explain your revert...
BRR discussion: BRD is an essay. You have to have reasons to remove content, including maps, and no consensus is not a reason. You cannot simply use BRD as a tool to filibuster content. That is what you are doing and that is unacceptable.

Initially it appeared as violations of I/P policy, but later the editor commented on the talk page, they probably forgot. To me, this history spells WP:IDHT and WP:CIRCUS. Bottom line there is such thing as WP:DE, so I clearly support User:Cla68 observation and suggest to widen the topic to GH article or maybe even wider. Do I dare to say whole I/P area? Otherwise I would not be surprised, based on previous history, to see the discussed editor starring on this page again and again, maybe be in a role of a user who is submitting this request for enforcement or as a user against whom enforcement is requested. I'll pull up a chair and start some popcorn first though - it would be a good show. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 07:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Some articles which cover dangerous I/P area could devolve into partisan patchwork crap (See Falafel for instance) still others stay sane and nice (See Hamsa) and could go without WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES header. One just needs to click on the article talk page tab to see if it is true. So I was topic banned previously. My personal opinion is that topic ban could be a blessing instead of a curse and could help any WP:SPA editor to contribute more constructively to this project. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 16:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Nableezy

Statement by Nableezy

At Quds Day, I went and asked for the 3rd opinion. That 3rd opinion backed my position and I made one further revert. The revert was re-reverted and the author of the 3rd opinion reverted back to my edit. To say I "disregarded" the 3rd opinion is so blatantly dishonest that I cannot think of a way of describing that statement without making a personal attack.

At Ramot, Agada has been filibustering, without cause or sources, the inclusion of a statement that has 5 reliable sources listed on the talk page backing it up. The user also reverted an entire section on the legal status of the settlement ([69]) despite the consensus at IPCOLL on this very issue. The user has been doing almost nothing at that page except for reverting based on "no consensus" and "brd" (eg [70], [71], [72]). Despite several requests for a single source backing his position (eg [73], [74]) the user has declined, instead choosing to say BRD and no consensus. These bad faith maneuvers to disrupt the progress of creating an encyclopedia article should not be tolerated. The user refuses to discuss the actual issues, instead choosing to rely on any guideline that supports his quest to remove any material he personally dislikes. The fact is I have provided several sources for each of my edits. Agada has, instead of looking for sources that dispute mine, has chosen to stick his fingers in his ears and yell out NA NA NA NA I CANT HEAR YOU and revert without cause. nableezy - 18:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I also note that Agada, instead of discussing the actual issues on the talk page, has been lobbying for administrative action to be taken on User talk:Timotheus Canens. Having not gotten the wanted action there, he has moved here. Thats fine, Im a big boy, but the biggest issue here is the reverting based solely on "no consensus" where "consensus" is taken to mean that if Agada shouts NO long enough then there is no consensus. nableezy - 18:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cptnono, casting aspersions without evidence is a personal attack. I object, strenuously, to the backhanded swipe made without a shred of evidence of sockpuppetry on my part. Your "most problematic" set of edits ~~does not contain a single revert. Not one.~~ contains one revert, the first diff listed. The next two are edits, not reverts. It is good to see the quality of the evidence against me remains at its usual level. nableezy - 01:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cptnono, no doubt on accident, reveals that the issue here has nothing to do with my editing behavior. For example, he says I "instantly jumped back into disputes he had previously." citing Gaza War and Falafel, and uses this as evidence of my supposedly disruptive nature. At Falafel, I have been asking him to back up his unsourced assertions that go against reliable sources cited. He has, for weeks now, refused to comply. I have not made a single revert on Falafel. On Gaza War, I brought several sources to a talk page, and made an edit. When that edit was reverted (by Agada under the spurious grounds that there was "no consensus"), I did not revert a single time. I opened an RFC and am patiently waiting for it to conclude. There are a set of users here that will do anything they can to shut me up, and they will do this for a simple reason. They oppose the content of the edits I make, but find it difficult to actually find policy based reasons for doing so. They dislike that I bring sources and make edits that reflect views that they find distasteful, for whatever reason. And because of this, spurious charges are filed left and right against me. There was one point on this page where there were 3 separate complaints filed against me, the only one that brought any sanctions against me resulted in a 3 hour block. nableezy - 01:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A game, right. Cptnono makes statements made up out of thin air. I ask him which reference, he refuses to say. And Im playing a game. Right. Again, I did not make a single revert on List of violent incidents in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2011. I made 3 edits, ~~not a single revert, 27 hours or 27 days apart.~~ the first of which was a revert. The others were all edits. What edit did they revert? I again object to your fallacious accusations. What is "toxic" in this topic area are the editors who insist on making unfounded statements and dishonest arguments on talk pages and follow it up with fallacious charges on administrative boards. I repeat, an arbitration decision found that casting aspersions on editors without evidence is "unacceptable". Either provide evidence for your charges, including the one of sockpuppetry, or strike them. nableezy - 02:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Who are these people and where have they made such an accusation? Again, either provide evidence for your accusations or strike them. I will ask that you be blocked if you refuse. nableezy - 03:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How so very interesting, so now it is off-wiki private communication that you refuse to provide to support accusations you make on wiki. How charming. I have already responded to your allegation of gaming the 1RR. Those were not reverts. Exactly what edit did the second diff listed revert? What edit did the ~~first~~ third diff listed revert? Those were both edits, so regardless of whether they happened 27 hours or 27 minutes apart there would be no 1RR vio. And so there was no 1RR gaming. nableezy - 03:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, golly, thats just super. Your diffs only show what you are willing to do to attempt to have me banned. That you will literally manufacture evidence or, when you cant make up evidence, make wild accusations without showing a shred of evidence. nableezy - 03:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cla, this isnt a revert, this is me restoring a tag. You are left with 3 reverts over a week. Please look at Agada's "contribution" to the talk page. It consists of one of two things, misuse of a source or repeating the mantra BRD and no consensus as a means of filibustering. You cannot compare our contributions. Of course Agada supports your proposal, the reason he does all this is to have me banned. It does not matter to him if he is likewise banned, so long as I am then he did what he sought out to do. His purpose here is to filibuster any material that he dislikes, and he sees an effective way of doing that by having me removed. nableezy - 13:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tim, I understand your frustration, but believe me, it pales in comparison to my own. I dont know what else I am supposed to do. I am hounded from article to article by a collection of sockpuppets, accounts that barely understand clear English (or at least feign to not understand for the purpose of stalling), ones whose sole purpose is to filibuster any change I make, and ones that willfully make things up out of thin air and say no when asked for sources. I no longer edit war, I try to be as civil as I possibly can, I make edits that are supported both by the sources and the policies of this website. What else would you have me do? Just give up and leave them to it? The reason there are regular requests for enforcement against me is simple. I am effective at adding content that the "pro-I" group would rather not include. But because I add this content with reliable sources it is difficult for them to give an honest argument for removing it. So the easier route to stop the inclusion of such content is to have me removed. To illustrate the point, how many enforcement threads have been opened against me that resulted in no sanctions? How many have been opened by accounts later shown to be socks of banned editors (and I have no doubt the one recently archived will soon be added to that list)? I am repeatedly brought here on the most trifling of charges, often on completely spurious grounds. Asinine accusations, such as the one below of sockpuppetry, are routinely made without evidence. But all these charges add to the perception, rightly or wrongly held, that I am the problem. That without me the topic area is "better". If by "better" one means that it is easier to ignore the Palestinians and present a slanted account of their history, when not completely denying it, then sure that part is true. But if by "better" one means that the articles reflect the policies of WP, such as NPOV and V, then that is emphatically not true. If you tell me what exactly you think I am doing wrong I will correct it immediately. But dealing with the type of bullshit that I regularly see from some of the editors commenting here makes me much more frustrated than I could imagine you being. nableezy - 16:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

AGK, do you have any idea what a third opinion is? It is a third user offering an opinion to break the deadlock among 2 users. nableezy - 20:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy

This seems like an attempt to use WP:A/E to gain the upper hand in a content dispute. Administrative noticeboards shouldn't be used when discussion is ongoing, and especially not when one's efforts to lobby an admin have been fruitless. (See User talk:Timotheus Canens#Question and WP:Forum shopping.) Perhaps WP:Boomerang applies here. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:37, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh dear, it's "Get Nableezy week" again, is it? I see nothing in this submission that is any more actionable than the previous groundless complaint (above). As AU notes, Nableezy's topic ban is over; therefore he ids free to edit in this area. This is precisely what he has been doing, without edit-warring, disruptively editing or in any way acting other than as an asset to Wikipedia. I will not speculate on motives, but I am growing increasingly weary of attempts to remove him.

In this instance, I note that AU's latest revert of Nableezy has itself been reverted by the editor who gave a third opinion. So it is disingenuous for AU to accuse Nableezy of disregarding the discussion; the accusation would be better self-directed.

I think that this clearly unfounded and vexatious complaint should be speedily closed with no action against Nableezy; and that AU should be warned against further such frivolous actions. RolandR (talk) 19:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Broccolo

Just a month ago I would not have argued about banning a user for using the word "trolling", but another editor was banned for doing just that Should we be consistent here? While the differences presented in Mbz1 case were collected over a few months I'd like to bring your attention to two differences for the last 2 days made just a few week after user:Nableezy prior topic ban expired. user:Nableezy has been repeatedly warned over uncivil comments he made. Let's see his reaction:

Another "crime" for what Mbz1 was topic banned was described by user:passionless as "Inability to work co-operatively . Here is a similar example by user:Nableezy.

[75]

I am not saying user:Nableezy should be sanctioned over the differences I presented. I am simply looking for some consistency. Broccolo (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are you seriously providing, as your first example, a diff that shows Nableezy removing a message (from his own talk page) posted by AgadaUrbanit, in which Agada, himself, says, "... you are free to remove this warning."?? I seriously hope admins take into consideration how low users are going with there quote/quote evidence in attempt to get him banned. -asad (talk) 22:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A difference that springs to mind is that in those diffs, Nableezy is describing an edit (to his own talk page) as being trolling, whereas in the case of the "another editor" you refer to, the diffs presented referred to multiple editors (including me) as being "trolls" (and "wikihounds", et cetera). That's the difference between commenting on content (or lack of it), and commenting on the contributor. Having seen a fair few of these things pop up on Nableezy's talk page, yes I think there is a reasonable case for describing some of these edits as being "trolling". But that wouldn't justify describing the editors as being "trolls". See the difference? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:36, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pick on Nableezy week (by Cptnono)

I get the skepticism. Why else would people be picking on Nableezy if it wasn't to win content disputes? Nableezy must be a good editor who just happens to be the on the receiving end of POV pushing jerks' scorn. So here are my thoughts. Afterward feel free to scream that an interaction ban is needed:

Nableezy chose to sit out his topic ban by contributing almost nothing to other articles. Sure there was some but the ratio (a few edits a week vs scores a day) says enough. That is within the rules. He is allowed to be a single purpose account even if SPAs get some grief. I know that sockpuppetry (eg: he didn't sit it out but relied on a secondary account) has been a concern but I will let others present evidence if they are inclined.
Nableezy instantly jumped back into disputes he had previously. Falafel and Gaza War are just two examples. Of course, he sat out his ban so he is allowed. Doesn't mean we should respect it.
Most problematic: He was just here for potentially gaming 1/rr. He has been accused of gaming the system before but in this most recent episode he was reverting a probable sockpuppet (But what about this: contraversial edit ->revert->~~revert~~(clarifying edit: controversial modification of other editors in direct response to a revert) 3 hours after 24 hours had elapsed

So yeah, I think we should pick on him. He has proven that he is here for one reason and that that he believes the reason is sufficient to come dangerously close to gaming thew system over and over and over again. I had assumed that the "break" would bring a new and improved Nableezy. That was not the case. He is (and should be) under increased scrutiny for his previous infractions. On the other side of the coin: Good for him on sticking to his principles and at least being transparent. At least we know what we are getting with him.Cptnono (talk) 00:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But Nableezy instead wishes to dispute my reference to him starting touble on Falafel. So fine. We have a source in the article discussing Alexandria and yet he actually says that it is not in there. Read the article it is right there. He is playing games. Whatever he can do to "win" he will do. Since Gaza War and Falafel are so hard to prove I will again point to the flagarant abuse of 1/rr. He waited 3 hours to make a revert. He was already making a controversial edit. To follow it up with coming so close to 1/rr is obvious. Nableezy makes this topic area toxic. In his absence we got a GA. In his absence we had relatively quiet talk pages. He is edit warring over FLAGS in an article. He is willfully ignoring sources. He is willfully starting trouble. If he isn't gone now it is only a matter of time so it doesn't hurt my feelings if the admins again give him a pass. I a, confident that he will gain dig his own grave because that is just what he does.Cptnono (talk) 02:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Stop changing the subject Nableezy. It isn't my fault that others thought you were editing with an alternate account. And it isn't my responsibility to make the argument for them. If you reread my statement I did not say you had a sockpuppet. I simply acknowledged that others called that. But you and I arguing isn't going to help your case. If anything It is going to get me bounced along with you. You are toxic to the environment here. Just like this conversation is. I hope that an administrator closes this without any action because I am confident that you will again be here within a month and I won;t have anything to do with it. You are simply a problem. Everyone knows it. Even the admins while looking at this might believe I am also a problem but they will know that you have done nothing but rock the boat. Go write a GA in the topic area and then I will be happy to work with you. Cptnono (talk) 03:13, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am not allowed to divulge private communications according to Wikipedia's rules. Even if it was not against the rules I would not since it would be bad form. You can ask for me to be blocked if you want but I will not apologize for simply pointing out that others have raised the issue of you editing with an alternate account. I especially do not need to since I did not say you did. I made it clear that that was the bottom of my list of issues. So stop changing the issue and actually respond to the allegation of gaming 1/rr. Can you actually discuss the concerns or would you rather change the subject in an attempt to dodge the major issues?Cptnono (talk) 03:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My diffs show a concern. If you do not see it then you deserve to be at AE. I really don't need to say anything else here since you are just proving my point. After this is closed out (regardless if bans for the both of us are long or not) I will be happy to try to edit with you if you change your behavior. Cptnono (talk) 03:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. As far as I know I've never edited that article. Nableezy's edits are ギリギリ violations (Onomatopoeia alert!) but appear to be part of a larger problem. From what I'm seeing, there appears to be a edit war going on there between two editors. There should be no revert warring taking place while editors are trying to reach a consensus on the article talk page. The other editors at that article appear to be trying to collaborate, cooperate, and compromise. Here are reverts over the last week or so:

Nableezy [76] [77] [78] [79] [80]
AgadaUrbanit [81] [82] [83] [84] [85]

I suggest article-banning Nableezy and AgadaUrbanit and I think the current conflict problems with that article will largely evaporate. Cla68 (talk) 04:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anyone should be article or topic banned for the time being. However, AgadaUrbanit should be subject to a restriction preventing him from warning Nableezy or filing or commenting on AE reports against him. He templated him multiple times despite being asked by Nableezy to stay off his talk page, asked by me to stop it, and referred by Timotheus Canens to WP:DTTR (will provide diffs on request - not much time right now). The same restriction should apply to Cptnono, who has it out for Nableezy as evidenced by his multiple AE filings and pretty much every comment he has ever made to him or about him. That restriction could also be applied to Nableezy so that interaction between these users outside of regular article editing can be minimized and with it the unnecessary drama it provokes. Tiamut^talk 13:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Nableezy on Cptnono's talk page: Been a little busy IRL and keeping you inline since your return (how has no one else dragged you to AE yet?) is not a priority. Yes, there's the thing, keeping Nableezy 'in line'. ← ZScarpia 01:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What of it? Thai is part of volunteering here. Nableezy has been active in three sockpuppet investigations in not even the last month. He is obviously attempting to keep others inline. That is what we do here sometimes. Actively searching out for solutions to problems is not forbidden unless it is done only to harass the other editor. But how about you comment on Nableezy and not me since he is the one accused of doing wrong? All of this changing of the subject. No wonder admins never read these things.Cptnono (talk) 02:56, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So Nableezy should be sanctioned because other editors have created sockpuppets? Come off it! As you know, there is a serious problem of serial sockpuppetry, with scores of accounts being created by a handful of blocked editors. Coincidentally, all of these seem to favour a "pro-Israel" point of view; there has been no evidence of a similar concerted campaign by "pro-Palestinian" editors. If there was, we can be sure that you would, quite correctly, be active in preventing this abuse. What is Nableezy's crime here?RolandR (talk) 07:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But how about you comment on Nableezy and not me. Since you're making accusations, I think that it's relevant to address what your motivations are. What of it? I think that the comment on your talk page illuminates the reason why Nableezy is being brought to the AE board. If you think that part of your job here involves keeping other editors in line, I'd say that indicates that you have an attitude problem. Nableezy has been active in three sockpuppet investigations in not even the last month. I think that he should be commended for doing a very important job. ← ZScarpia 16:54, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

comment I think Nableezy has recently shown exemplary restraint in the face of persistent provocation and obstruction, and certainly doesn't deserve to be sanctioned. His comment above of 16:37, 9 May 2011 is spot-on in my view.

I sympathise with admins who have to deal with these requests. I suggest that anyone bringing a request here should be automatically sanctioned if no action is taken against the subject of the request, and a warning to this effect be well-publicised and displayed prominently in the edit notice here and elsewhere. The level of sanction should be sufficient to deter frivolous or poorly-grounded complaints without deterring well-founded requests. (The thought of something like the system of "challenges" in tennis has occurred to me in the past, but I can't see a way of doing it that wouldn't be subject to gaming.) --NSH001 (talk) 07:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Nableezy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I'm seriously thinking that if this trend continues, we should simply throw our hands up and send this to arbcom for ARBPIA3. T. Canens (talk) 16:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The seven reversions cited in the initial request are adequate corroboration that Nableezy's conduct is so problematic as to warrant sanctioning. For reference, the reversions are: Ramot – 30 April 2011 2 May 2011 5 May 2011 8 May 2011; Quds Day – 28 April 2011 29 April 2011 2 May 2011.
Nableezy's primary argument with relation to Quds Day is that there was support in a third opinion (3O)[86] for including East Jerusalem. But, as User:Plot Spoiler correctly commented in the 3O thread, no other editors were involved in that discussion—rendering the 3O at best a valueless exercise, and at worst an attempt by Nableezy to gain some pretence of validation for his edit. A small third opinion is not an adequate consensus-building exercise for such a major dispute, and especially in such a contested topic area. Additionally, there was no counter-argument by Nableezy with relation to his four reverts at Ramot. On balance, and taking into account his previous record in this topic area and the volume of reverts made, Nableezy is prohibited from editing any page related to Palestine-Israel, broadly interpreted, for two months. For clarity, the two-month topic ban will expire on 20:36, 10 July 2011 (UTC). Furthermore, I intend to initiate an evaluation at WP:WPAE or here into the wider pattern of editing in the articles involved in this request, because I suspect that Nableezy is not the only one whose behaviour warrants a sanction. AGK [•] 20:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nableezy

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – nableezy - 20:51, 10 May 2011 (UTC) 20:51, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: 2 month topic ban

Administrator imposing the sanction: AGK (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: [87]

Statement by Nableezy

AGK uses as evidence of me "gaming" my asking for a third opinion at WP:3O about a dispute. He says that because no other users were involved the 3O is a valueless exercise, and at worst an attempt by Nableezy to gain some pretence of validation for his edit. Of course there were only two editors involved, why else would I ask for THIRD opinion. To use my using a proper DR procedure as cause for topic banning me is ludicrous. Next, AGK identified 4 reverts that took place over the course of a week. The first of those "reverts" was not a revert, it was in fact one of my first edits to the article in some time. I challenge AGK to say what edit this "revert" reverted. That leaves 3 reverts over a week. A two month topic ban for making 3 reverts in a week is not justified.

I did exactly what I was supposed to do at Quds Day, instead of continuing to revert, I went through DR. In fact, WP:DR contains the following advice: If you need neutral outside opinions in a dispute involving only two editors, turn to Wikipedia:Third opinion.

At Ramot, yes, perhaps I made more reverts than I should have. However, the other user, Agada Urbanit, was completely ignoring the sources and misrepresenting the one that he had. When it was shown that the source he was claiming supported his view (the Israeli NGO B'tselem) actually explicitly contradicted his view he simply reverted again under the guise of there being "no consensus". I admit, I have little patience for such bad faith filibustering tactics. But since that time, and before this sanction, I have opened an RFC on the issue. AGK has completely ignored the bad faith actions by the filer of the above request for enforcement and has sanctioned me on the basis of me properly following DR on Quds Day and making 3 reverts over a week on Ramot.

It is true, I have been sanctioned a number of times under ARBPIA. I have only appealed once, the one time that I felt that the decision was completely unwarranted. I feel that this decision is likewise completely without merit and request that it be lifted. nableezy - 21:37, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Two serious arrays of reversions???? On Quds Day I made 2 reverts, requested a third opinion and waited. When that 3O came back supporting my position I made one more revert. That is it. The end. When that edit was re-reverted (by the same user who had reverted the other 2) I made no further reverts. In fact, the editor who gave the 3O made the revert. On Ramot I made 3 reverts over the course of a week. You call that a "serious array of reverts"? Come off it. Forgive my use of the word "gaming", but I dont know how else to take "at worst an attempt by Nableezy to gain some pretence of validation of his edit". Sorry if I have little faith in your "stated intention to evaluate the conduct of the other editors", given our history I dont have all that much confidence in your judgment. nableezy - 23:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ed, I would like you to clarify your statement. You say the original report shows enough reverts by me to show I was placing back my preferred position. Are you referencing Quds Day or Ramot, or both? On Ramot, 3 reverts over a week while multiple sources were provided backing my position and the other reverting editor providing none supporting his is enough to show that there was both "no consensus" and that I was simply putting back my preferred position? How are you defining "consensus"? nableezy - 20:32, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Re Ncmvocalist. Yes, opening an RFC is what I should have done from the start. The reason I did not is because this is a manufactured dispute that should not need an RFC, anybody who looks at the sources should be able to come to that same conclusion. When users refuse to provide sources backing their position, or when the sources they do provide are shown to not back their position, I dont consider their objections as having any merit. Everything that happened at Ramot was predicated on filibustering, or, as George put it, bureaucratic bullshit. I dont deal well with bullshit. My offer to AGK to abide by a 1RR/week was not meant to say that I am entitled to revert once a week, but rather to make it so I have to open RFC and other such processes to deal with such nonsense instead of reverting. Ill go through these processes if it is necessary, but yall should understand that what happened at Ramot was caused by inane arguments by those insisting on ignoring the sources with the sole purpose of impeding me at that article. The same user has done this at a number of other articles, always reverting because of "no consensus" where he takes "consensus" to mean that if says "no" there is "no consensus". nableezy - 13:05, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly going one way, so there is little need to continue. But I would like to make clear a few points. I am given a two month topic ban for 3 reverts in a week on one article. The reverts at Quds Day cannot be used as justification for this ban, I did exactly what WP:DR says to do. If I am to be sanctioned for that then there is no point to any of this; all that is left is 3 reverts over one week at Ramot. Im cool with two months off, but know I that I will use this as the baseline for future AE reports. An editor makes that many reverts in a week and they should be subject to similar sanctions. Yall make the rules, thats fine. But be prepared to enforce those rules for everybody. Starting with the users who were also reverting at Ramot and Quds Day. I say AGK, hows that review going anyway? Feel free to close this out, aint much of a point in keeping it going. nableezy - 19:15, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by AGK

I did not say that Nableezy "gamed" the 3O; I said that that could be a motive for his continued reversion with that flimsy thinking. Nableezy says nothing of his two serious arrays of reversions, which is telling of the baseless nature of this appeal. Nableezy also cites the "the other party did as much wrong as me" argument, which first does not mitigate his own conduct, and second ignores my stated intention to evaluate the conduct of the other editors within the next few days. These sanctions are as warranted as the previous ones on Nableezy were. AGK [•] 22:04, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the comments from the editors in the below section. Who among you are involved in this topic area? Uninvolved editors usually do not object to an administrator's action so profusely, especially where the action has a clear and reasonable rationale. AGK [•] 08:45, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

George: Thanks for your comment. I've only just read it, so I'll need a while to think about it, but I am still unconvinced that Nableezy was pursuing appropriate dispute-resolution, or otherwise attempting to actually gain consensus for the inclusion of the East Jerusalem thing. Even in light of his 3O and RFC, the five reversions are still extremely excessive—especially when balanced with the fact that his edits were continuing to be disputed. Behaviour of this nature is part of the reason why the I/P topic area is such a mess. AGK [•] 11:47, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by George

Not sure if I'm considered involved. I was part of some of the discussions on the Ramot article talk page with Nableezy and AgandaUrbanit, and also edited that article.

I haven't read the entire conversation above, and just noticed that Nableezy was topic banned for two months. I can't comment on the Quds Day article, as I haven't checked the diffs and wasn't involved in that discussion, but I have been witness to the Ramot article discussions and reverts.

The first point I'd like to address is AgandaUrbanit's contention that Nableezy made a bold edit, inserting "East Jerusalem" into the article on April 30, 2011, which was then reverted. This isn't completely true. Here is a version of the same article from two years to the day earlier, which states:

"Because of its location east of the Green Line it is considered to be an illegal settlement by the International Community, though Israel disputes this and the United States also traditionally refrains from characterizing Israeli localities in East Jerusalem as settlements."

Here's the version of the same article from three years to the day earlier:

"Because it was built on land annexed by the Jerusalem municipality from the West Bank after the Six-Day War it is often considered an Israeli settlement in East Jerusalem."

So the concept that this is some new, bold change Nableezy had reverted is somewhat flawed.

Now, let's consider who reverted Nableezy first. The editor in question is named Editorprop. They have made 142 total edits, 66.2% of which were to this very article.[88] They are the very definition of a single-purpose account in my book, and I largely question their neutrality.

Who subsequently reverted Nableezy? AgandaUrbanit. His reason? "No consensous for this edit, please discuss on talk page."[89] Nableezy's response? To try an alternative. The result? That too got reverted, and there was indeed lots of discussion on the talk page, which led to an ongoing RfC.

But let's take a step back for a moment. What's really going on here, and who's to blame? Nableezy makes an edit, and a relatively new editor, Editorprop, reverts it. Nableezy reverts them, and Aganda reverts Nableezy, citing no consensus. In my opinion, there are a few problems with this series of events:

Editorprop is a single-purpose account, whose initial revert was based on pretty poor reasoning. The article has said Ramot is in "East Jerusalem" for years.
AgandaUrbanit hasn't read or doesn't agree with Wikipedia:DRNC, and was filibustering Nableezy using bureaucratic process and "no consensus" reverts as an excuse. There was a certain amount of WP:TAGTEAMing here as well.
Nableezy took the bait, and got involved in a slow motion edit war.

If action was deemed necessary, I would have expected to see all three editors given similar punishments (and, to be clear, it would be a punishment - I don't view this sanction as preventative). And that punishment should have been far less severe than this sanction. But what action should have been taken here? None. There was a lot of good discussion going on with all three editors, and Nableezy opened an RfC on the issue (which is 5 to 1 in his favor at the moment). It would have eventually worked itself out, and while we might have been going in circles for a while, there wasn't any foul, and the conflict didn't appear to be escalating. Just my two cents, anyways. ← George^talk 06:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to AGK - A few thoughts regarding Nableezy, this situation, and the topic space in general, in reverse order (seems to make sense to me at 5am). First, this topic is highly controversial; we all know that. I've seen some really bad edit wars, and editors - on both sides - rightfully blocked or banned. By my bar, this was a relatively minor edit war, without much real impact. I mean, we're talking about two words, that are already in the same article a sentence later, in an article on a neighborhood in a city. Yes there was too much reverting going on, but I think there was also some progress being made in the background through discussion.

Regarding Nableezy's general behavior, there are a few things I've observed over the years. First, Nableezy makes a lot of enemies, and doesn't care. Some because he tends to get a bit hot under the collar; many are because he's particularly good at sniffing out banned users parading as sock puppets. Having that many enemies has made Nableezy a target for more AE & AN/I requests than probably any other editor on Wikipedia - some warranted, many not. Many are just his ideological enemies throwing a pile of shit at a wall to see what sticks. Once in a while something does, but they often get overturned upon review because of the motivation of the filers. Second, Nableezy sometimes does what he thinks is "right" rather than what he thinks is policy, and Nableezy understands policy well. I think if there were more eyes on these articles, Nableezy would have a much easier time editing in general, because his edits aren't pushing minority views, or out of line with the reliable sources he cites, they're simply contradictory to the ideologies of his enemies. Many of the walls put in front of him are bureaucratic nonsense, forcing him to justify every word of every line of every edit from every source, just to slow him down so that he can't add more information that contradicts the ideologies of his foes.

If you have an active editor who is prone to getting hot under the collar when frustrated, the way to "beat" them is to bury them under a pile of bureaucratic bullshit. Nableezy, who knows policy, knows it's bullshit, and sometimes skirts Wikipedia's policies to combat it, taking the bait. Nableezy's ideological enemies then go running off to the nearest board with their catch. I'm not saying that's what happened here necessarily, but one has to consider the context. Why did AgandaUrbanit revert Nableezy and not Editorprop if they're just going to cite "no consensus"? Why did AgandaUrbanit report Nableezy for edit warring instead of Editorprop? Would any other editor besides Nableezy have been reported at AE for making the exact same edits to that article? I doubt it, but most other editors just give up in the face of a filibuster; Nableezy doesn't. ← George^talk 12:37, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by RolandR

Moved from uninvolved section; see Wikipedia:ARBPIA for involvement in the topic area.

I think this topic ban is scandalous. Nableezy has not acted in any way against either the letter or the spirit of Wikipedia in the edits cited as reason for this sanction. As can be seen in the discussion above, not a single editor proposed or supported a topic ban. Seven editors commented in support of Nableezy, one editor called for an article (not topic) ban for both Nableezy and the complaining editor, and three criticised Nableezy without calling for a topic ban. Even if a sanction was justified (and I don't believe that it is), this two-month topic ban is grossly over the top. It should be overturned without delay. RolandR (talk) 22:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Al Ameer son

Moved from uninvolved section; contributions from May 3 to May 10 (as a sample) indicate he is involved in the topic area.

I cannot agree to the imposition of this topic ban on Nableezy. It should be lifted or at least considerably reduced. For all I know AGK thought deeply about his decision and on the face of it seven reversions in two articles constitutes edit-warring. However, these reversions span eleven days. Also, while it may not have been too wise for Nab to have made the reversions, we should take a minute to look at the content being disputed. Namely, the usage of "East Jerusalem." The argument that Nab has ignored consensus which was brought forth as a reason for his ban is plainly false since the overwhelming international consensus stipulates that Ramot, an Israeli settlement is located in East Jerusalem which is supposed to be the capital of a Palestinian state. Facts on the ground (like Israel annexed the area years after its capture in war and that Israel administers and enforces its laws in the captured area) should be mentioned of course as they are of obvious relevance. However, the article, in line with consensus, must state firstly that Ramot is not merely an Israeli neighborhood in Jerusalem, but an Israeli settlement in East Jerusalem. Quds Day is a bit murkier. Nab's reversions support the notion that Quds Day calls for the "return" of East Jerusalem to the Palestinians. The other editor argues that the Iranian regime doesn't differentiate between east and west Jerusalem while Nab in turn insists that Quds Day isn't solely an Iranian government-sponsored holiday, but one celebrated by many Muslims. I haven't taken the time to go through all the talk page discussions and don't intend to go over them here since my thread is turning out to be a long one. All I'm trying to say is with all of this taken into account (eleven-day span of seven reversions for two articles and the justification of Nab's reversion at Ramot at least), the punishment doesn't fit the crime even with Nab's past history of being topic banned. Something that should also be noted is Nab's efforts at stamping out sock puppetry which he seems to do on a near-weekly basis. This of course doesn't warrant a pass for Nab to edit war which I don't believe he has done anyway. Nab may have committed violations at Quds Day and is guilty of being openly angry which some users could see as being in violation of WP:CIVIL. I hope my fellow admins could take some time to study the circumstances surrounding this A/E thread (I know it's frustrating and I'm the last person to talk since I'm not active in this area) and determine whether or not Nab deserves to be topic banned for two whole months. At the most, I could understand one week, but I suggest scrapping it altogether. Nab should try to cool down whenever he is provoked, be cautious before making any reversions, and if he believes he should revert, but does not want an edit war, he should RfC. As for the other editors who might receive disciplinary actions, I have not taken the time to study what they have or have not violated and will not comment on them at the moment. --Al Ameer son (talk) 06:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Zero

Disclosure: I have been editing the Middle East section of Wikipedia since 2003 (must be a bit of masochist, eh?). Nableezy wanted to write that Ramot is in East Jerusalem. Where else is it? The fact is that the vast majority of sources agree with Nableezy and hardly any disagree. It isn't a matter of Israeli opinion versus the rest, either, since most Israelis would also agree that Ramot is in East Jerusalem. What is really going on is that some of the Israeli right wing persuasion want to suppress use of the common place names East Jerusalem and West Jerusalem because they might hint to the reader that "Jerusalem, unified forever" is not the whole story. It may well be that Nableezy could have handled this better than he did, but on the other hand he was trying to write an article conforming to the rules while his opponents were not. I suggest that the penalty be greatly reduced and that his editing opponents receive at least the same. Zero^talk 09:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sean.hoyland

AGK, if your decision had a clear and reasonable rationale I don't think you would get an eminently reasonable and sober minded editor like George spending the time to add a detailed analysis which I sincerely hope you read. It accurately describes the state of affairs upon which a clear and reasonable decision could have been made. The validity of an argument or objection isn't a function of the degree to which an editor is involved or uninvolved. Editors aren't allowed to grade the validity and policy consistency of content arguments on talk pages based on the degree of involvement in an issue according to things like nationality/ethnicity/political views etc. They have to address the arguments themselves. Since you have the privilege of being an admin surely that obligation applies to you here even more than non-admins ? I'm involved in the topic area, although not the articles in question, but I can't see any possible justification for a topic ban based on the actual events that transpired. If a few reverts over a week is now the state of edit warring and disruption in the I-P topic area there has been an impressive improvement and people should be being encouraged not punished. People can say whatever they want about Nableezy but as a process he tries to increase the degree of policy compliance in articles by actually making sure that content complies with mandatory policy by using policy based arguments and reliable sources. A topic ban will not result in an improvement of article content. Quite the opposite. We shouldn't be encouraging the manufacturing of controversies via talk page disputes when there isn't really a controversy in reliable-source-world by punishing editors who try to build an encyclopedia based on policy. If Nableezy were editing the same way in the evolution topic area where there is zero-tolerance for POV pushing, fringe views, unreliable sources, non-policy based arguments on talk pages, content edits that don't comply with policy etc, no one would bat an eyelid and he certainly wouldn't be topic banned. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:00, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

re: Ncmvocalist's comment at 10:57, 12 May 2011. With respect Ncmvocalist, I think you're missing the point a bit. The key point as far as I'm concerned is that an editor shouldn't be put in a position where they have to make a revert over silly things like where Ramot is in the first place and they shouldn't have to post an RFC to ask whether Ramot is partly located inside the spatial object that is referred to by reliable sources as "East Jerusalem". It is, as a simple matter of objective spatial positioning, partly inside East Jerusalem just like the Portland metropolitan area is partly inside Washington state. It's this kind of thing that shows how out of touch with reliable-source-reality things have become in the I-P topic area and how editors are being forced to jump through hoops that shouldn't be there to write articles based on reliable sources according to policy. Not that it will ever happen, but imagine if someone were to change the description of the Portland metropolitan area from "an urban area in the U.S. states of Oregon and Washington" to "an urban area in the U.S. state of Oregon". They would be reverted over and over and over again until they were either persuaded to stop or blocked no matter what they said on the talk page. Too much effort is spent trying to solve "disputes" with editors on talk pages when the dispute doesn't matter and it has no legitimacy from a policy perspective because the sources are clear. Editors need to at least be able to make edits based on policy that improve articles without getting punished for it. Sean.hoyland - talk 12:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Broccolo

I support the ban. user:Nableezy is violating 1RR on a regular basis. Please see the article List of violent incidents in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2011. The user made 3 reverts in less than 5 hours.

Broccolo (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Those are not three reverts. The first is a revert. The second is a edit to new text added another editor. The third is a compromise edit based on the edits made by Rym Torch just prior. Please don't make false accusations. Its this kind of mud throwing that's clouding the issue here. Tiamut^talk 06:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A checkuser/sockpuppetry investigation on Rym Torch is pending by the way. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

..and of course both Rym Torch and Tzu Zha Men were blocked for sockpuppetry. Both accounts were used to file recent AE reports against Nableezy and support edits made by others in the I-P topic area. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tiamut

Nableezy has been given four topic bans by two administrators: AGK and Sandstein. AGK issued his first topic ban ever [93], based on a report filed by a sockpuppet of banned user User:Dajudem (of the CAMERA scandal). He set it for four months and after multiple complaints about it being unwarranted, lowered it to two and blocked Stellarkid (the name of the filer) for two months (before he was ultimately blocked for being a sock). Nableezy was burdened by the sanction which has since been used as a baseline every time he has been brought to this board.

Shortly thereafter, Nableezy was topic banned by Sandstein, who lifted the ban on appeal [94] after numerous complaints about it being unwarranted. Sandstein later topic banned Nableezy for two months based on a report filed by User:Shuki which Sandstein himself described as "largely frivolous", but invoking Nableezy's "problematic record", a sanction was deemed justified nonetheless. [95].

Now we have this topic ban, which is based on 4 reverts made at two articles over the course of a week. Ed Johnston claims this alone is enough for a two month topic ban. Really? From now on, all users who revert 3 times at one article over the course of a week, while engaged extensively in talk, adding sources, moving toward compromise wording, can be sanctioned if reported here from now on? I submit this sanction is overkill, as were Nableezy's previous sanctions. Nableezy has a lot of enemies for being persistent in bringing forth good sources to support his arguments and for hunting down socks. As Stifle once said though, if you throw enough mud it will stick. Tiamut^talk 06:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I think that administrators who take action against a user should not be considered "uninvolved" next time around (exceptions for vandals etc). It is unhealthy. Zero^talk 10:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tiamut: How did you come to conclude that it was my "first topic ban ever"?

Zero: Nonsense. Should arbitrators recuse from cases that re-examine an old case in which they also voted? Should members of the community recuse from voting in a second RFA for a candidate whose previous RFA they also voted in? Would your claim that it is "unhealthy" hold if I had concluded in that first thread and in the most recent AE complaint that Nableezy's conduct was not problematic? AGK [•] 13:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The "his" in that sentence referred to Nableezy, not you AGK. Sorry it wasn't clear. Tiamut^talk 14:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally though, since you brought it up, it was the first topic ban you ever issued in the P/I area, and the first day you involved yourself in ajudicating cases in this area. The only other topic bans you issued in P/I cases (besides Stellarkid mentioned above and Nableezy twice now) were on User:Passionless and User:Shrike and those were overturned, with your agreement. Besides a probation and warning issued to User:Cptnono on the same day you rendered your decision against Nableezy the first time, I believe that covers the whole of your involvement in adjudicating cases in this topic area. Tiamut^talk 15:56, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by AgandaUrbanit

Moved from uninvolved section; see Wikipedia:ARBPIA for involvement in the topic area.

Learn to write from Yoda I did. Maybe this time we could legalize unrestricted access for the appealing user to WP:SPI. There is no need to cause a great rejoicing in the sock drawer. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 06:53, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Response to George by Cptnono

Moved from uninvolved section; see Wikipedia:ARBPIA for involvement in the topic area.
If you are going to move comments: at least do it right. Below is my response to George. BTW, when is someone going to nom him for admins?

It isn't a good thing that Nebleezy spends so much time on socks. Yes it is good that he flushes them out but it is on one side only. He has even admitted that he does it on one side only. If he actually attempted to clean up the topic area overall then it would be a good thing. But instead he spends time here and at SPI in a battlefieldesque effort. How many SPI and AE comments has he had since his return vs actual constructive edits? He is a POV warrior. Being good at using SPI to take down what he sees as an enemy is not a net gain for the project. Cptnono (talk) 07:07, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nableezy's puppet efforts may be one-sided. But a lot of people think that it is a net gain for Wikipedia to frustrate any potential instance of disruption without regard to intent. Actually that was the theory behind this ban if I'm not mistaken. --JGGardiner (talk) 07:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Even if an editor made no content edits at all and did nothing but investigate and report sockpuppets from one side of a conflict or even just the sockpuppets of one person or file AE reports against editors who don't follow policy/the discretionary sanctions (and there are many), it would still be a net benefit to the project. It's not like there is a balance of power that needs to be maintained because it's beneficial. There's simply a set of rules and the question as to whether an editor is complying with them or not. If not, they need to be dealt with within the framework of rules by people who follow the rules not by people who use deception and will do whatever it takes because they think they are right. You need a diff to support a statement like "He has even admitted that he does it on one side only" by the way. The question of "pro-Palestinian" sockpuppets is an intriguing one though. Who and where are they ? Despite being pretty familiar with editors in the topic area I'm not able to recognise "pro-Palestinian" sockpuppetmasters with sufficient confidence and evidence to file an SPI. I think the bar for SPI reporting and blocking is too high. If someone looks like an obvious sock and they are participating in the I-P topic area in a way that brings them into conflict with other editors they should just be blocked to reduce disruption where disruption=unconstructive arguments/edits that cannot be justified by policy because no sources were provided etc etc. Also, I don't buy the "Nableezy is a POV warrior" proselytizing. The evidence doesn't bare it out. In so very many cases, what he is pushing is policy compliance and the notion that people base arguments on policy, a seemingly impossible task here because of the abundant supply of tendentiousness together with sockpuppets to support it. I'm pretty confident that even a very smart bot that could automatically and very rigorously implement content policies in the topic area would be called a POV warrior. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:19, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In fairness to Cptnono, the animosity and intransigence from the two sides is a serious problem. In fact, it is the essence of the I/P problem in my view; everything else is just a manifestation of it. Ironically, Nableezy is one of the more accommodating I/P editors in my experience. --JGGardiner (talk) 09:02, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand, I actually see sock puppets as worse than POV warriors. An editor willing to use a sock puppet to circumvent a block or a ban is inherently a POV warrior, but a zealous one who also puts their personal ideology above the interests of Wikipedia. Compare that to Nableezy, for instance, who has been blocked or topic banned in the past, but has never (to my knowledge) resorted to crossing that line and creating a sock puppet to keep pushing. While I don't always agree with Nableezy, and I understand why he gets the POV warrior label, I can also respect his willingness to not cross that line. I don't tend to pay much attention to how many SPI or AE cases someone files, but rather how many frivolous cases they file vs. how many cases of merit. I haven't done any analysis of his edits, but I have the feeling that overall Nableezy has a fairly clean record in that area.

On the other hand, Nableezy clearly focuses on one side's viewpoint. Editors (on both sides) who edit from a particular viewpoint often don't do it intentionally, or even realize they do it. They write something they think to be true, and seek out information to back up their position. Editors are rarely active in seeking sources that contradict themselves, but we're all guilty of that at times. I do think that the pro-I side is more organized and uses significantly more sock puppets than the pro-P side, but they're probably also a smaller group in terms of numbers, so I can understand why they feel the need to make up for it. But that doesn't mean that what they do is right or acceptable, and it create an even worse state of mistrust between editors. When you don't know if the editor you're trying to work with has any actual good faith or if they've been banned repeatedly, it makes collaborating constructively exceedingly difficult.

On the whole, the whole I/P topic area is a big game of cat of mouse. If you get rid of the largest cat (Nableezy), you're going to have a mouse problem on your hands. In that way, the status quo balances itself out, in that neither side ever "wins", so neither side ever "loses". I think what we really need is to address the mouse issue first and permanently, and then lay the smack down on any cats that are still chasing things around that aren't mice. You can check out an idea I'm mulling around on how to do that here. We should be trying to rehabilitate sock puppets, not forcing them to go back into hiding under a new account IMO. ← George^talk 03:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The real problem with sockpuppets is that they are uncooperative edit-warriors, just like typical I/P editors. They exacerbate the problems that already exist. Sure they overwhelm edit wars but edit wars shouldn't be happening in the first place. They deny consent on talkpages but how often do you see I/P editors give a fair audience to views from the other side anyway? Both sides basically treat the other as an obstacle to overcome. There's no time to compromise for the Conquerors of Namespace. Look at the Old City example Asad brings up below. The regular editors hardly behaved well. Sure there were socks but it takes two to tango; extra tangoers just complicates the process. It is indeed unjust that banned editors continue to edit so freely but it is hardly the only injustice that occurs here. --JGGardiner (talk) 07:45, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and no. Sock puppets edit war like any other I/P editor, but they do so with impunity. They don't care about the repercussions, because there are none. Sanctions, bans, and blocks don't stick, and their nonexistent reputation means nothing to them. Regular I/P editors, while often disagreeing, can build up a camaraderie with each other, which leads to better discussions and more compromise. Take a look at IronDuke's comments on Nableezy's talk page, for example. There's disagreement, but respect too. Sock puppetry is a cancer; the crack that brings down the wall. If you suspect the person you're dealing might be one of these guys that runs a racist, nationalist, or supremacist website, that has been banned a dozen times before, you have no interest in working with them, let alone compromising with them. Even if the person isn't a sock puppet, the fear that they are creates mistrust, which leads to a breakdown in communication and cooperation. "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." ← George^talk 08:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"...these guys that runs a racist, nationalist, or supremacist website" are just as bad as Nableezy as far as I see it. Nableezy tries to game Wikipedia like people from one of those sites only he is smart enough to do it almost right. All the pro-Israel editors won't just come out and say it: Nableezy is bad for this project not even considering his POV. Nableezy breeds cancer. He inspires sockpuppets by engaging them with the same (albeit it slightly more policy based) fervor

When Nableezy had the balls to say that he knew someone was a sockpuppet but that he was keeping his mouth shut because he likes him it showed that he was here for one reason and one reason only.

And twice he has descended down into complete garbage when he is hit. He made a legal threat after his first big reprimand just to be blocked. Then this time he called people cunts. I could care less about the language (***t=cunt and you know it) but he should not be pretending to be some nice guy when he is not.

Two months? That is a step down. He was just banned for longer. How many editors come to AE and get less than before? When Nableezy stops edit warring this will be a better topic area.

I do like disagreeing with you George. It will make my support vote of you getting the mop and bucket mean even more if you go for it. And Portland sucks.Cptnono (talk) 09:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nableezy

"These sanctions are as warranted as the previous ones on Nableezy were." I suppose AGK has reviewed nableezy's entire Wikipedia career and concluded that every action taken against him was warranted. Or maybe the previous ones were as unwarranted as this one is, because it is unwarranted. I certainly do hope you get around to evaluating the edit patterns, as you said you would, AGK, because something stinks here—beside your decision—and you stepped right into it. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 22:33, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What of Nableezy's conduct? Your remark only addresses one minor side point of my statement, and says nothing of the actual basis of the sanction. AGK [•] 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate Nab admitting that "yes, perhaps I made more reverts than I should have." Admissions save time. Nab pointing to his disagreement with the editor he was reverting does not, of course, excuse Nab's own actions. I appreciate Nab also acknowledging that he has previously been sanctioned a number of times under ARBPIA. The combination of his admission as to the problem with his edits here, and his history of being sanctioned under ARBPIA (which should have informed him of the inappropriateness of flouting wp rules), suggest to me that there is good reason to support the most recent sanction.--Epeefleche (talk) 05:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Remember, it takes two or more people to edit war, so Nableezy wasn't the only one engaging in it. Being fair, consistent, firm, equal, and strict in enforcing the policies and ArbCom sanctions regarding the I/P topic area is important in letting the participating editors know that the past behavior which caused so many problems will no longer be tolerated. Cla68 (talk) 06:06, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have already indicated my intention to review the conduct of the other editors who were involved in this dispute, but in any case the behaviour of the others does not mitigate Nableezy's own misconduct. AGK [•] 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should just hand one of three options to the sanctioned user who has filed this appeal (the last option is more of a "if you're not happy with one of the first two, the second being the obvious default option"), Nableezy can:

temporarily suspend this appeal for no longer than a week (to permit the review of other users behavior to be completed). Under this option, Nableezy can assess whether to continue/withdraw this appeal after the review is completed or 1 week has passed. There may be scope for relaxing the restriction after this time; there might not be; time will tell. If there is not scope, you will still have the ability to appeal back here or to the Committee at another time.
proceed with the appeal right now where the only behavior which will be considered is Nableezy's, as well as remedies relating to that behavior. If the decision is to keep things as they are, then under this option, you will NOT have the ability to appeal this topic ban (except by email to the Committee) unless it is amended again.
move this appeal to the Committee - but bear in mind that under this option, AC will explicitly be given the option to either relax or increase the severity of this restriction, by any duration of time (including indefinitely), if justified in light of your editing record in this topic area.

Nableezy, which of the 3 do you opt for? Ncmvocalist (talk) 09:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is a very sensible way of proceeding. AGK [•] 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
2. nableezy - 14:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at Nableezy's history of blocks and disputes, I'm surprised he hasn't been indefinitely banned already. OpinionsAreLikeAHoles (talk) 10:30, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The optimist in me hopes that these editors will learn their lesson from the continued application of discretionary sanctions, and correct their behaviour. The pessimist in me agrees with your comment. AGK [•] 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The optimist in me hopes that twelve-day-old editors editing from Amazon EC2 and who happen to stumble upon AE aren't another of the more nefarious things Nableezy is particularly keen at sniffing out. ← George^talk 12:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would respectfully ask that you to withdraw that accusation George. Nableezy and I were editing and discussion the same article (Lara Logan). I use numerous proxy services to get around internet censorship in my country of residence (Although I've never heard of Amazon EC2 - It must be utilized through one of my third party clients). OpinionsAreLikeAHoles (talk) 12:13, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe I made an accusation in there, I merely expressed my hopes. If you'd like to discuss the issue further, however, feel free to drop by my talk page. ← George^talk 12:40, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Check this out: Vandalism by OpinionAreLikeAHoles and anon IP. If I'm not mistaken, the conclusion forming there is that OALAH is socking. Is it any wonder we have troubles in the topic area? Tiamut^talk 17:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The frequency with which this area is coming here is utterly ridiculous. Which part about "this area is under a sanctions regime" do people not understand? We do want editors who care about the project and what it is they are doing, but not to the point that they have lost complete control of how to respond to difficult situations and problematic editors. I see a situation where the Community is soon going to say "enough is enough" (like with the CC topic area) very soon, except that it is relation to how this topic area should treated.
The second most recent remedy which was imposed in response to concerns about Nableezy's conduct in this topic area was a 4 month topic ban for what was in a large part, edit-warring, and this expired on 4 April 2011. At the time, a specific warning was also given in relation to edit-warring and a number of factors were also considered about edit-warring by this participant. A little over a month after this ban expired, we find ourselves here due to a 2 topic ban from the same topic area for what is in large part, slow edit-warring. It appears 1RR is still being treated as an entitlement and the same types of arguments are being expounded each time this is brought here. I don't think thehints are being picked up on and the message has obviously not sunk in even after all of these threads.
In view of all of the circumstances, and the fact we inevitably have yet another trainwreck to deal with in the near future if we do get involved, and Nableezy's decision to proceed with this appeal despite the other options available, I'm not inclined to change anything at this point in time. Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The AE which led to the sanction appears to have been filed at 18:26, 8 May 2011 (UTC). The RFC was opened at 13:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC). I don't want a message being sent that this area can continue to be subject to an undue amount of administrative investigation each time this chronology repeats itself - purely because editors are not utilizing the mechanisms available to them more appropriately (be it SPI for sock allegations, AE for conduct issues in this area, article RFC etc). Simply agreeing not to revert more than once a week is still not going to address the underlying problem of the revert rules being treated as an entitlement. These and a few other factors led me to change my initial impression (which was similar to Heimstern's view) to the above view. Ncmvocalist (talk) 10:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - The reason this topic area is under a regime is because the state of this topic area has deemed to be unacceptable on a lot of fronts; that's the point which is being sent here. More than enough months have elapsed for adjustments to your approaches to be made. All of the policies need to be complied with as much as possible and you need to work within those and the confines of any other decisions which are applicable (that includes, for example, "jumping through hoops", doing things effectively, and utilizing the mechanisms available). If you aren't willing to do so, then this topic area is not, at this particular time, the area for you to be contributing in. All of you need to make the effort to move this towards a less problematic area; make the necessary changes to your approaches or take the respective breaks that are necessary. I'm not sure how many other ways I need to put it to impress upon you all to protect the heart of the project AND prevent even the appearances of disruption in this problematic area. If someone is misbehaving in this area, use the mechanisms I referred to above sooner - even if this swallows up a bit more time/effort than any of us would like to spend. Additionally, there is a Committee who you can request clarification from if you are still having trouble dealing with these types of problems or where principles of the project appear to be in conflict as a result of this regime. This may appear very simple on the surface, but you all need to reflect on this for more than just a few minutes or hours in order to move forward even in the options you select. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - A major reason we have such huge problems in this topic area is the proliferation of socks and throwaway accounts. We have users pretending to be new, violating 1RR and even 3RR all over the place while pleading ignorance. They just happen to edit side by side with the same set of established editors of the same POV (I can and will provide names and examples upon request). The socks and throwaway accounts do all the reverting while the established editors on their side do some discussing and throw out the occasional revert of their own. This leaves those of us not socking and editing using sources at a technical disadvantage, open to being sanctioned, often based on reports filed by socks (just like Nableezy's first topic ban which came pursuant to User:Stellarkid's report). This is a huge problem that AE is not dealing with. Instead, AE is being used to punish an editor who has an uncanny ability to detect socks, file reports and get them stopped. We have admins here, in this very section, conversing with socks sympathetically, seemingly missing the forest for the trees. Excuse my frustration, but really, what do you want us to do? Tiamut^talk 17:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - For this appeal, where is the evidence of (1) filing an AE when one of the reverters was misbehaving? (2) filing a SPI on any SSP? (The third question would be using mechanisms instead of reverting, eg; the article RfC but I already made a note on that and that the reverting came before it). For the general problem, which is what your comment seems to tend to, ask AC for clarification on what they want you to do: 'is the regime working the way it is supposed to? How can we make the articles comply with content policies without being sanctioned? How do we address socks, throwaways, and other accounts which may be attempting to evade bans/blocks at the same time (and how many hoops do we need to jump through in order to prevent a cause for being sanctioned)? Is an amendment required? Or should we be following a different procedure? Or do you want us to avoid editing the area altogether?' (Note: you may need to show evidence to support some of the assertions a few of the questions rely on, eg; sock determinations, sanctions, evidence of using all of the best practicse you think of yet something still not working, etc). Where insufficient data has been provided on-wiki, you may also need to forward the evidence to AC and the functionary team. I do at one point hope to have enough confidence and cause for making a recommendation to lift/amend it in a certain way, but that point has certainly not been reached at this time. For now, use the time to review best practice under AC's guidance and presuming it is helpful, think of how all of you will deal with such issues thereafter in accordance with that and policy. Ncmvocalist (talk) 03:10, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        I still think the valid points raised throughout the discussion (and through other discussions occurring at some user talks) are going to be lost by not pushing this to ArbCom. I am specifically not suggesting that this be escalated into a new case; the point is to avoid that unless it is absolutely necessary. What I am suggesting is that some clarification could be helpful on the questions I asked above; I don't think I'd gain or lose anything either way, but parties may get a fairer idea of how to go about things and what to expect. At the end of the day though, I'm not going to force them to drink water from the well. Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What do you do in Chinatown? As little as possible. --JGGardiner (talk) 17:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result of the appeal by Nableezy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I recommend declining this appeal. There are enough reverts documented in the original complaint to show that Nableezy was putting back his preferred version when it was clear there was not yet any consensus for the change. Nableezy was just returning from a previous topic ban. Other editors may have misbehaved as well, but the AE complaint just below this one (opened by AGK) is a place where those issues can be heard. EdJohnston (talk) 20:12, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I admit that I share some of the concerns of those who've objected to this ban. I think it is allowable per policy and was within AGK's discretion, no question, but I'm worried it was still not the best choice to make because, while Nableezy certainly has edit warred, he's also been making clear efforts to comply with BRD. Starting an RFC, as he did, is just the right thing to do, and I'm concerned that this sanction could send the message that trying to resolve disputes through consensus-building is futile. I also do note that Nableezy has been insisting on sources, and my reading suggests those not doing so, by contrast, seem to be using unsourced opinion. All the rv warring by Nableezy was still a bad idea, and particularly given his far from spotless record and the crapfest that I/P is, I see no case for the sanction as invalid. But I do disagree with it and would rather it be lifted. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 09:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What do you say to Ncmvocalist's points in the section immediately above? AGK [•] 10:51, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it probably doesn't help us that I haven't actually been at AE long and so haven't had to deal with I/P stuff as much the rest of you no doubt have (one of Ncm's principal points seems to be the frequency of these issues coming up, and that's something I've not experienced myself). Maybe I am being too tolerant just because I'm fresher here than everyone else. That's actually very hard for me to gauge. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:41, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would never try to give less value to your input as an administrator because you haven't been active here as much as myself or others might be. If anything, I'd give equal or greater value to your input, because you have the benefit of having a completely fresh perspective. But yes, I think it is important to appreciate how problematic this subject area is—even by the standards of AE, which has within its scope as the DS processing page almost all of Wikipedia's most bothersome topics. AGK [•] 14:59, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not I would have opted for the same sanction is irrelevant. The fact is that AGK's topic ban is within reasonable administrator discretion, and we should not be in the business of micromanaging discretionary sanctions by committee. I agree with EdJohnston that the appeal should be declined. T. Canens (talk) 16:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This appeal should be declined. As T. Canens explains, it was within the bounds of administrative discretion. Eluchil404 (talk) 04:41, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The appeal should be allowed. It doesn't matter whether it was "within the bounds of administrative discretion" so much as whether it is in the best interests of the mess that is I/P. We can't manage AE as if socking in this area is under control; it is rampant, and punishing established editors attempting to do the right thing (dispute resolution, relying on sources) is making a bad situation worse, both immediately, and by the message it sends. Personally, I avoid the I/P topic area like the plague, and occasional blunders into always become sharp reminders of why. Anyone who can contribute constructively to this area in the long-term ought not to be banned from it for quite chunky periods for minor offences, leaving the field clearer for sockpuppets. Rd232 ^talk 03:12, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So you propose that we allow an editor to go unsanctioned for his conduct, because he's good at sniffing out sock-puppets? That is a ludicrous suggestion. AGK [•] 12:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Israel/Palestine articles generally

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Israel/Palestine articles generally

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: AGK [•] 11:59, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Israel/Palestine articles generally

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: General review of this topic area, focussing on Quds Day (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Ramot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Review is in relation to the threads #Nableezy and #Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nableezy on this noticeboard, and in the context of WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: See discussion section/s below.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): Various editors are involved in these articles. All are aware of the discretionary sanctions provision.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): General review of the topic area, which a view to excluding those editors whose recent conduct is disruptive.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: None

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Plot Spoiler (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): [96]

Editorprop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): [97]
AgadaUrbanit (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): [98]
~~Zero0000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): [99]~~ This editor's contributions to the article are not in any way problematic.
Gilabrand (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): [100]

No More Mr Nice Guy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): [101]

~~JonathanGo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)~~ Indefinitely topic-banned.

Discussion concerning Israel/Palestine articles generally

Statement by notified parties in relation to Israel/Palestine articles generally

Comments by initiating administrator (AGK)

My method of proceeding will be:

I will review the volume of reverts by each party at the associated article, and the proportion of those reverts that were supported by talk page consensus or were followed up with an initiation of discussion or dispute-resolution. Parties whose total number of un-discussed reverts is excessive, and/or whose conduct elsewhere on the article or talk page is problematic, will be topic-banned or otherwise sanctioned under WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions.
Parties whose conduct is potentially problematic will be cautioned and advised as to how to improve their conduct.
Parties who have not yet been formally notified of the existence of the discretionary sanctions provisions will in all cases be served with such a notification.
Editors who know of other Israel/Palestine articles that warrant a review are welcome to link to the article in question. This review is not restricted to the two mainspace pages cited in the request lede.
The input of uninvolved editors and administrators is particularly welcome.

AGK [•] 12:15, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Israel/Palestine articles generally

Comment by Zero0000

I only ever made one edit to Ramot and I believe it was a good edit, so I have no need to defend myself here. However, I want to make some general remarks. I've been editing the I-P area of Wikipedia for about 8 years, so even though I'm an administrator I'm not "uninvolved".

What is it that we are trying to achieve here? The sole aim of Wikipedia is supposed to that of producing a great encyclopedia, with balanced, accurate, well sourced articles. To that end we have developed policies and procedures like WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:NOR that are known to be effective if they are followed and disastrous if they are not followed. Now compare this to the aims of this case: "I will review the volume of reverts by each party at the associated article..." From this we learn that article content has no importance; rather, Wikipedia is like a kindergarten and the main thing is to discipline the children.

The I-P area of Wikipedia is notorious for the proliferation of socks, single-purpose accounts, and organized attacks from multiple directions. (And I mean organized — there are political groups who hold workshops on how to subvert Wikipedia.) My guess is that at any point of time half the people editing in the I-P section are of this type. These people don't care about editing policy, they only care that Wikipedia reflects their political views. And they are very clever; for example they know that they can get rid of good editors by wearing them down until they lose patience and get sanctioned for making too many reverts.

Something has to be done about this problem. There is no magic wand, but the first need is to stop thinking that you are doing good by counting reverts. Sorry, but it actually helps very little and sometimes it hurts. If you want to do some real good, come to the I-P area, look at the contents of edits, and shoot people who repeatedly flout the editing policies. One or two good administrators actively assuming this policing role on a regular basis would be like a fresh breeze, bringing better articles and fewer disputes. I'm not pretending that it would be an easy job, though. Zero^talk 05:27, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This problem of socks is indeed very serious, and a huge barrier to creating good, balanced articles. I am aware of hundreds of socks editing from a pro-Israeli perspective (thousands if we include Runtshit), though very few from a pro-Palestinian perspective -- see also the discussion about Nableezy's appeal above. Many of has have been entrapped into edit-warring by multiple socks. It's easy to say that we shouldn't have acted in this way; but when you see several accounts, which are clearly but not provably socks, acting in concert to disrupt an article, to include poorly-sourced contentious material, to use articles to make personal attacks, and other unhelpful edits, it is very easy to react by removing first and thinking later./ Until we develop much more effective means of combating such abuse, editors who play by the rules will be at a disadvantage, either by edit-warring or by leaving poor, abusive or unsourced content in articles. RolandR (talk) 11:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Zero0000: Your interpretation of my approach is woefully incorrect, and you have taken my earlier comments completely out of context. I said that my method of proceeding would be to "review the volume of reverts by each party at the associated article, and the proportion of those reverts that were supported by talk page consensus or were followed up with an initiation of discussion or dispute-resolution" (emphasis added). My approach, in other words, will be to first identify the reverts made on these articles, and then to determine which of those reversions do not accord with policy, were not supplemented with consensus-building, or were part of a revert war. I have been active as an administrator at Arbitration Enforcement for some years, and I am not as blindly misinformed about the existence or significance of POV-warriors. In fact, I've been actively exploring the topic outside of AE. I profusely object to the inaccuracy of your above comment, and respectfully request that you reconsider what you have written. As for your inclusion in this request, I have already explained why I listed you, and I have just (admittedly after delay) struck your name. Regards, AGK [•] 20:50, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(I have very little time right now and might edit this comment in about 10 hours.) AGK, it seems from your essay that you understand the problem, so I apologize for my allegation that you don't. My comments were based on what I read on this page, where I saw few hints of the views expressed in your essay, and my general frustration with the AE approach more widely than just this case. Regarding this case, I am especially annoyed at you for banning Nableezy from SPI, which will definitely make the task of editing the I-P area more difficult. Zero^talk 23:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by asad112

I think the title of the A/E request is kind of misleading. The problems represented in these two articles are quite a common plague amongst other articles in the area of the P/I. I really implore admins to read through some of the post problematic articles and note the amount of filibustering and sock-puppetry that takes place on a regular basis. I was involved with the same issue prior when talking about Old City (Jerusalem). A consensus finally came about (although one I still don't feel is sufficient enough), but not before weeks of prior reverts by sockpuppet IPs and editors filibustering. We can sit here and sanction individual editors who do a good job of ridding the conflict area of socks and overcome filibustering tactics by using hard facts and good sources, or we can keep teaching editors and socks that if you hide behind IPs and filibuster long enough, you will be able to play the system and get the POV that is wanted. It seems like the admin in the previous thread has opted for the latter and this request is only an attempt to try to neutralize an unjust decision. -asad (talk) 16:43, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are wrong in your last sentence. AGK [•] 10:43, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"weeks of prior reverts by sockpuppet IPs and editors filibustering" is a bit of an exaggeration. What I think Asad meant to say is that after he was unsuccessful in edit waring his preferred version (see Jan 3rd-7th), he started a discussion which resulted in consensus within a couple of days. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:36, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You have proved my point, as soon as you entered in editing the article the discussion was started. There is no policy against reverting IPs, and I am not going to waste my time to start a discussion with an IPs that never participate in discussion, as attempts before have proven to be entirely futile (IE talk page notifications, edit summaries). It is funny how you say my version was preferred, as it ultimately became the version you agreed to in consensus but being placed lower down in the lead. The IPs were reverting back to something that was not supported by any facts, and that is what was being reverted. If you don't like the rules regarding reverts of IPs being allowed freely, I suggest you take that up with the people who enacted that policy. -asad (talk) 14:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Precisely what policy would that be, Asad? AGK [•] 14:54, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#General_1RR_restriction: "Clear vandalism, or edits by anonymous IP editors, may be reverted without penalty". RolandR (talk) 15:36, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Hertz1888 reverted you on Jan 6th, and Chesdovi on Dec 28th. Anyway, this was before 1RR was enacted IIRC, and I don't think anything seriously wrong went on there, but I guess we'll see what the admins think soon enough. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:58, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Israel/Palestine articles generally

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Gilabrand (talk · contribs) made this edit shortly after Nableezy was topic-banned. The edit summary reads Copyedit, but it looks to me like a substantial reversion to a previous version of content—and a significant change to the material that is in dispute. I have added Gilabrand to the list of users involved in this request, notified him of this, and asked him to comment here. I will happily sanction an editor (or place him on notice of discretionary sanctions) if he did indeed try to pass his edit off as a "copyedit"; deceitful editing is disruptive editing. AGK [•] 12:16, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ludwigs2

Closed without action; dubious (socky?) filing circumstances, and addressees of the cited attacks have expressed no desire for sanctions. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Ludwigs2

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: 151.100.102.127 (talk) 16:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Ludwigs2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration_Enforcement_sanction_handling#Ludwigs2_cautioned

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14:11, 8 May 2011 Complete and unadulterated attack on User:OrangeMarlin.
8 May 2011 Uncivil threat of using enforcement as a bludgeon against User:Mathsci with whom Ludwigs2 has disputed.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 22 September 2008 by Elonka (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Ludwigs2 should be given an interaction ban so he doesn't continue to violate the spirit and the letter of the arbcom caution. A six month topic ban from all articles related to pseudoscience might help cool him down a bit too.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[102]

Discussion concerning Ludwigs2

Statement by Ludwigs2

Comments by others about the request concerning Ludwigs2

I do not understand why this request has been made. Ludwigs2's feathers might have been ruffled by the AE arbcom case and he did make a few inappropriate remarks immediately after the closure, but none of this warrants any action here or elsewhere. Mathsci (talk) 17:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ludwigs2 is a combative editor, but the two diffs provided are hardly his worse. It's just noise that is mostly ignored. I'm kind of concerned that an IP with 2 edits did this so well. Not that I'd ever partake of this kind of procedure, but the IP did it quite well. In one fell swoop. Since Mathsci and I are currently the subjects of most of Ludwig's incivility, and neither of us are known for sock usage, I'm very curious who's bringing this. Based on the writing style...I've got a really good guess. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Ludwigs2

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The IP has only two edits. Socks should not edit Wikipedia space. An IP with no track record who files an enforcement request here should not be taken seriously. The IP has not replied on whether he has another account. This should be closed with no action. EdJohnston (talk) 03:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Indeed. Closing. Can be reopened procedurally if and when the filing IP discloses who they are and how they have a legitimate involvement in this dispute area. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mibelz

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Mibelz

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:29, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Mibelz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

May 12 - second move revert on the same day, with an incivil edit summary

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

User_talk:Mibelz#Blocked_and_warned - Warned on 22 March 2010 by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

I am not fond of ban/blockhammer use, and whether any blocks are necessary, I leave to the discretion of AE regulars. However, action is needed to stop an editor from move warring and ignoring discussions. Further, Mibelz's incivility is problematic, as such comments directly lead to battleground atmosphere. I'd ask that 1) he is reminded and warned about civility 2) warned that move warring can lead to a block and 3) that the article in question is moved back to the long-established name by a neutral party and move-protected for the next few weeks (with no prejudice to a proper RM being started). PS. I am also open to withdrawing this request if Mibelz apologizes for his incivil comment, and self-revets himself. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:24, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

On April 18 Mibelz (talk · contribs) moved Rebellion of wójt Albert from its stable location to Rebellion of vogt Albert without a talk comment, and with a rather uninformative editing summary. I reverted him with a more informative edit summary and as I saw no further activity on the article, I thought the matter settled. Today he moved the article again, with a hardly more informative edit summary ([103]). I reverted him (since it was almost a month since the last revert), explained my rationale in detail on talk, and noted that explanation in my edit summary, also asking that any further moves are made through WP:RM. Less than an hour later, he reverted me again, this time with an incivil edit summary ("some Polish nationalists"). Given this unconstructive attitude (lack of discussion, incivil comments, willingness to move war) I am hesitant to revert him again, as I expect he would just revert me back - and a "move war" would hardly help. If it wasn't for the incivility, I'd likely start a 3O/RfC, but with the incivility added into the mix, I am bringing this incident here. PS. Minutes after move, an IP changed all instances of Kraków to the obsolete, old-English redirect Cracow: [104]. In the context of the relatively recent blocks for name-reverting, this is another worrisome sign.

While I realize that AE deals primarily with editor behavior, I'd also appreciate a comment on 1) whether the article can be moved back to the stable name and move protected and 2) whether and when I can move it back so that my action is not seen as "move warring". --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:29, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Mibelz has not bothered replying here; he has still not bothered commenting on the article's talk page, he has however reverted another editor again, forcing his preferred name spelling (in violation of WP:NCGN: [105]. Note that I have explained this naming issue on talk as well, at the same time I made my original explanation regarding the article's name. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:49, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[106]

Discussion concerning Mibelz

Statement by Mibelz

Comments by others about the request concerning Mibelz

I agree with EdJohnston; unless it continues, I don't think 1RR is particularly necessary either. A single incident of edit-warring on History of Kiev from a year ago and this recent incident of move-warring on Rebellion of wójt Albert (which has already been dealt with via a 20 hour block by AGK) isn't much to go on.
Piotrus, although I was tempted to move the page back myself, I think you should proceed with the article RFC. The move-warring was strange, and it was fine to bring it here, but things cannot move forward if parties also started avoiding steps purely because of an instance of perceived incivility ("Polish nationalist"). You should ignore it and recognise that the user is obviously having trouble in communicating whatever it is he's trying to say on this matter; if there is no logic in what he was trying to say, there's no harm in getting extra input to be sure. Ncmvocalist (talk) 10:13, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Have left a note on his talk here. Ncmvocalist (talk) 09:22, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Mibelz

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

With the problematic nature of Mibelz's general approach to interaction and with his previous block for edit warring on a Digwuren-related article, I am minded to topic ban him from all such articles for about 3 months. A mentorship might do some good, but we simply do not have the resources for that—and in any case, we cannot permit editors like Mibelz to be active in contested topic areas. AGK [•] 22:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Mibelz has been here since 2006 and has 18,000 edits. He has created a lot of articles, many of them on chess players. He also does a lot of work on Eastern European topics. I'd advise against a complete topic ban from Eastern Europe, but a 1RR might be considered. There is a slight language barrier, and in spite of his long record here, he may not know much about WP:Dispute resolution. There is no hint of any ethnic motivation for his recent move warring. Check his move log, which appears unexceptional except for the May 12 fight. EdJohnston (talk) 05:39, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mbz1 topic ban clarification

Create article in user space to be reviewed. - 2/0 (cont.) 13:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Statement by Mbz1

I'd like to write an article about Israeli medical high pressure bandages please. This article is not falling under my topic ban restrictions as they were specified here There are not going to be any single word about the conflict, and I mean this.User:Gatoclass requested I consult him about my new articles, if I have a doubt about the topic. I have zero doubts, but I did ask Gato, and he eventually agreed that I could write this article without violating my topic ban. I also asked my banning administrator , and he declined my request, but kindly allowed me to ask for a review of my proposal at AE, so here I am.

If I am to write the article, I will write it in my user space and present it for review before it is moved to main space. I will not touch the article and its discussion page after it is moved to the main space. I will not nominate it on DYK, and, if somebody else will I will not comment on the nomination.

IMO it is important for a topicbanned editors to be allowed to write such articles in their user spaces, the articles that are not violating their topic bans at all, but might be seen as borderline. Why it is important? It is important because it teaches an editor to behave in the topic he/she is banned for. It is a very harsh punishment not to be able to edit and/or to comment on your own articles, it is very difficult not to watch what's going on there, but it does teach to be patient and more tolerant to other users opinions.

May I please write this article? Thanks.--Mbz1 (talk) 18:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction or remedy that might prevent writing this article

Mbz1 is topic banned from all articles and discussions related to Palestine, Israel or the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed, until 7 April, 2012 per this notice by 2over0. EdJohnston (talk) 19:46, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Mbz1's request

It seems to me your request should be at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification. I suggest you move it there. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:38, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, but I am not sure about this because I was banned on AE not by ArbCom.--Mbz1 (talk) 18:41, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus: He was banned under the discretionary sanctions provision of an arbitration decision, so a clarification of the scope of the topic ban belongs, unless I'm mistaken, here, and not at clarifications. AGK [•] 18:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Ah, I see. In that case, I'd suggest you reformat your request per the guidelines at the top of this page. Admins here, in my experience, pay much attention to such technicalities, and your request may be rejected due to improper formatting. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:48, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But there's no template for my situation.--Mbz1 (talk) 18:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have to wonder why we have to keep revisiting mbz's nibbling around the edges of her topic ban. Out of all the permutations of topics within the sum of human knowledge, it should be fairly simple to write about something that has nothing to do with Israel, Palestine, the Middle East, Jews or Arabs. Write an article about arachnids. Submarine warfare in WWII. Buddhism. Water polo. The soon-to-be-crowned American Idol finalist. Anything that gets away from the big I and the big P. Tarc (talk) 19:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- yeah it would be simpler if, instead of annoying us with these requests, mbz1 would just do what User:Nableezy is doing he's subject to the smae topic ban, but he just edits these "borderline" articles anyway - like this one Majida El Roumi (Lebanese singer who sings about Israeli massacres) or this one Lara Logan - TV reporter sexually assalted in Egypt whan a mob suspected she was Israeli. Rym torch (talk) 21:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Your attempt to paint those articles as "related to the Arab–Israeli conflict" is pretty lame. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 21:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
they are at least as related to the conflict as an article about innovative Israeli bandages or Israeli startups. Rym torch (talk) 22:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Info In accordance with this an involved user:tarc opinion should not be taken into account for this discussion. Actually it should not be commenting here at all. I could present lots of links to its attacks on me off wiki.

In general I would like to ask everybody, but uninvolved administrators including of course my banning administrator, to avoid commenting on this thread, if it is possible. It is a simple request, please let not to turn it to another battleground.--Mbz1 (talk) 19:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My personal opinion on an editor does not invalidate my position that a topic-banned editor should steer well clear of the topic area; review the tu quoque logical fallacy at your leisure. Everyone is free to offer insight as they see fit. Those that eventually decide these sorts of things can then take into account or discard completely what they see fit, but it isn't your place to censor other editors' contributions. Tarc (talk) 19:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from 2/0: I imposed this topic ban following discussion here, which is why I think that this venue is the appropriate one to request further opinions. I have reviewed the sources for the proposed article, and am of the opinion that it probably veers too close to broadly construed, especially in light of the recent brouhaha at Start-up Nation. On another hand, it looks like it should be perfectly possible to write a complete and informative article on this topic without touching on ARBPIA issues except incidentally. I asked Mbz1 to make a request here to draw out a new consensus whether the proposed article should be covered by their ban. Real life may prevent me from participating much, so please close this discussion under the norms for establishing consensus at this board. - 2/0 (cont.) 19:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I anticipate that, like Start-up Nation, the first edits to the proposed article will bring it squarely into the Arab–Israeli conflict. ~~For that reason, I recommend against this request.~~ — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 21:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Malik, I doubt very much this is going to happen to the requested article. Even very much involved user:Gatoclass blessed me with this article. Besides, if I am to write an article in my user space with no violation of my ban, and will not edit it in the main space, there simply cannot be ban violation.--Mbz1 (talk) 22:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I saw that in your request. I have mixed feelings about this matter, and I've withdrawn my recommendation.
    The reason I'm convinced this article will become another Arab–Israeli battleground is because I anticipate that the first edits to the article will discuss why Israelis invented the bandages: to treat victims of Palestinian terrorism, or not. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 22:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by George

I support this request, provided that Mbz1 abides by the guidelines she herself set out above: she will only edit it in her own userspace, and will not edit it after it is in the mainspace (nor submit it for DYK or the like). The only caveat I would add is to be clear that it should only be only be moved to the mainspace by an administrator. Remember folks, this should be preventative, not punitive, and under those restrictions I see no reason to refuse this request.

If we don't allow banned editors the option of structured contribution (with review) as a way to improve their behavior, we only push them to circumvent policies (like writing the article in notepad anyways, and emailing it to a friend to post). ← George^talk 02:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mbz1 response to HJ.

I want to write this article for two absolutely different reasons:

Israeli emergency bandages are easy to use, could be used by anybody, and sometimes using them could be a matter of life and death for a bleeding person. If after reading the article some wikipedia readers add those bandages to their first aid kit, and a life of even one person would be saved thanks to this, I'd very happy, and no I am not going to write an advertisement article.
My second reason is described in my initial request. Writing such articles in my user space without being able to edit them in the main space is going to help me with editing the topic, when my ban is lifted.--Mbz1 (talk) 01:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Responses to Ed and Tim, I know it is useless, but...

Ed, this article is not going to be nominated on DYK. The actual wording here, at AE request, covers only conflict, and 2/0 clarified his intentions.
Ed and Tim, so is this OK, if I am to edit-warring in main space in Egypt over the subject of Muslims killing Copts in Alexandria, as another user did over and over again during their topic ban, but it is not OK, if I am to write an article about Israeli medical bandages that are used to safe life in my own user space? Just asking. Anyway... Even, if worse comes to worse, and the article will became I/P related article after it is moved to the main space (not by me, but somebody else) how it is going to affect my ban, if I am not to edit it there?--Mbz1 (talk) 12:00, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the sources I was going to use

General comments on topic bans

My understanding of the purpose of topic bans is it is imposed to prevent an editor from causing disruptions in the topic. What are disruptions? According to this guideline disruptions are:

vandalism;
gross incivility;
harassment;
spamming;
edit warring

I hope any reasonable person would agree that there is no way to violate any of the above policies while writing a new article in one own user space. I strongly believe that any topic banned editor should be allowed to write a new article in their own user space, move it to the main space in one edit, and never touch it again while under the ban because the purpose of topic ban is preventing an editor from causing disruptions in the topic, and not preventing a constructive contributions to the topic because preventing constructive contributions to the topic is an absolute absurd, and is not good for Wikipedia's image.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:32, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mbz1 response to Tim

Tim, thank you for clarification of your position. As I pointed out above there is a discrepancy between the The actual wording here, at AE request and this notice left at my talk page. The first one states that I am "topic banned from all articles and pages covered by WP:ARBPIA ...", The second one states: that I am topic banned "from all articles and discussions related to Palestine, Israel, or the Arab-Israeli conflict". I am not sure if such discrepancies are usual, if it was 2/0 intention, but why we should second guess 2/0 intentions, if HJ asked 2/0 this very question and 2/0 responded "no (the state of Israel yes, but not diamonds just because Israel exports them).--Mbz1 (talk) 16:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Tim.

There is another interesting thing on the matter of my topic ban. Please take a look at the language 2/0 used to close the request: "An argument could be made for dismissing this report with prejudice given the weak and highly inappropriate nature of the filing statement"(highlighted by me). So my banning administrator understood I should not have been banned at all, but banned me because of "consensus". I am far from saying I have done nothing wrong. I did, but I am being greatly over-sanctioned because of what I call "a name recognition" :-) The only thing I am interested in doing in this particular topic is writing new articles. So in an unfortunate case my topic ban cannot be lifted now with no restrictions as it should be lifted IMO, here's my motion to modify its conditions. I hope you find this motion to be fair, and reasonable because the proposed restrictions would completely prevent me from causing any disruptions in the topic and it is a sole purpose of topic ban.

Mbz1 topic-banned indefinitely for all articles and articles discussion pages related to I/P conflict in main space, except the situation described in #4
Mbz1 is topic-banned indefinitely for all deletion requests on I/P conflict related articles.
Mbz1 is topic-banned indefinitely for nominating I/P related articles on DYK and/or taking part in DYK discussions on such articles.
Mbz1 is allowed to write any I/P related article in her own user space, and add it to the main space in a single edit without consulting an administrator. To be eligible to write an I/P related article Mbz1 should write 4 articles that have no relation to I/P conflict for each I/P related article she wants to write.
Mbz1 is banned indefinitely from responding and/or removing any messages added to her talk page in regards to I/P related articles.
Mbz1 has the right to appeal the sanctions in 6 months.--Mbz1 (talk) 18:04, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Gatoclass

I told Mbz I couldn't see a problem with this topic. The reason I said that is because none of the sources she proposed to use mention the A-I conflict, and, somewhat to my surprise, a quick Google search did not turn up any additional sources on this topic that mention the conflict either. I did however have some concerns about the notability of the topic, which might best be tested by an AFD.

As regards the "Israeli boosterism" issue, I'm not especially concerned about that and it seems to me a stretch to consider articles about Israeli (or Arab/Muslim) achievements to be a violation of an ARBPIA topic ban. However, I am concerned about articles which deal with Arab/Muslim-Jewish relations, because it's been clear for a long time that the Arab-Israeli conflict has spilled over into this area, and I think it would be appropriate for topic banned users to avoid such articles. I also think it's inappropriate for topic banned users to make edits which portray the opposing ethnic group in a negative manner. The longer term solution for these issues might be to file a request for clarification/amendment with arbcom.

Finally, I might add that I think it unhelpful to interpret ARBPIA sanctions as applying solely to article subjects rather than to edits. Lots of articles can be about a subject almost entirely outside the topic area but which touch in some respect on the topic, while at the same time it's possible to make edits which do not actually touch upon the topic to an article which is plainly within the topic area. IMO it's better to focus upon edits rather than article subjects, but certainly, topic banned users should not be authoring articles which cannot be effectively covered without mentioning the topic. I've yet to see any evidence, however, that this particular proposed article falls into that category. Gatoclass (talk) 20:34, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Observation by Volunteer Marek

I think one particular reason to grant this request is that it can serve as a test case. If indeed Mbz1 can create a good article on the subject while managing to avoid the obvious pitfalls then she will have demonstrated that she is capable of making constructive edits. One of the ongoing themes here has been that Mbz1 does in fact make lots of constructive edits (and images!) but that when she steps into the I-P battle arena, she tends to get into trouble. If she succeeds here she will have demonstrated that it is possible to separate out the controversial from the non-controversial here.

With that in mind, I think HJ Mitchell's suggestion of a resolution (creating the article in namespace, etc.) is a good one.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:38, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result of Mbz1's request

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I have two questions. One for 2/0 and/or other admins who were in favour of the topic ban at the previous AE request and one for Mbz.

@2/0: Was it your intention, when implimenting this restriction, to prohibit Mbz from editing any article remotely connected to Israel (not the slighly narrower area of the Arab-Israeli conflict, but those topics concerning Israel which are not related to the dispute)?

@Mbz: Forgive my cynicism, it's not personal, but why do you so badly want to write an article so badly when a coherent argument could be made that it violates the letter of your restrictions? (Whether it violates the spirit of them is what I'm seeking to ascertain from 2/0 or other admins.)

If 2/0's answer is no and Mbz's answer is satisfactory, I don't see a problem, providing one of the admins who comments on this request reads the article before it's moved to mainspace. On a more general note, I think it shows a desire to to adhere to the topic ban that Mbz has requested this clarification rather than risk violating the ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:15, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Short answer: "no" (the state of Israel yes, but not diamonds just because Israel exports them). Long answer: how broadly is it useful to construe "broadly construed"? I confess that my internal algorithm for predicting what people will consider important is still in the development stages. As always with a topic ban, we have a tension between wanting to foster an environment where people like contributing to the encyclopedia while discouraging edit warring and pointless in-fighting. Is it wise to allow the creation of an article that itself does not have anything to do with ARBPIA, but there is a reasonable fear that it shortly will? - 2/0 (cont.) 04:38, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Will the newly-created article acquire an ARBPIA banner as soon as others start to edit it? Also, if it is submitted for DYK will others see it as Israeli boosterism. How hard will it be to arrive at a neutral article? This bandage was created for the Israeli army, and that army has often taken part in the Arab-Israeli conflict. I see that a bandage of this kind was reported on the 'Good News from Israel' page here. (Search for 'Naimer'). I recommend that this article not be allowed as an exception to Mbz1's ban. The actual wording of the ban, as left by 2over0 on Mbz1's talk page, covers all articles and discussions related to Israel, not just the conflict. EdJohnston (talk) 05:09, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
2over0's topic ban covers more than the conflict, exactly per EdJohnston. I don't see how it is possible to argue that this particular proposed article is not related to Israel. T. Canens (talk) 05:38, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Let me put this way. 2over0's topic ban in this case was substantially broader than the usual topic ban we hand out in ARBPIA cases, since it covers not only articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, but also articles related to Israel (or Palestine) generally. A good argument can be made that your proposed article is not related to the A-I conflict, and I think it highly commendable that you asked first instead of creating your userspace draft, but the fact is that such an article is covered by the sanction currently active on you, and other admins simply cannot modify it (by granting you an exemption or in some other manner) without 2over0's (or arbcom's) permission. T. Canens (talk) 16:00, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Normally I would say the version that's in the talk page notification controlled, since an AE thread is not required for a sanction, but then the logged sanction incorporated the AE case by the link and not the individual notification, and it's not quite clear whether the "articles covered under WP:ARBPIA" referred to WP:ARBPIA#Area of conflict or the "bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics" in WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions (that is, articles that a topic ban under ARBPIA could cover). And 2over0's response to HJ above isn't quite illuminating (diamond would not normally fall within even a topic ban for Israel). Okay, 2over0, can you clarify exactly what you intended to ban Mbz1 (and, for that matter, Passionless) from? Just the A-I conflict, or also Palestine and Israel? T. Canens (talk) 16:37, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote the language of the ban immediately after reading up on the old disputes that led up to discretionary sanctions being placed on the whole topic area. An exceptionally broad swath of the encyclopedia has been part of these disputes, and I intended mentioning the states as a way of indicating that the bans should be interpreted broadly. Specifically, they should be interpreted as broadly as the sanctions authorized by ARBPIA, but no more broadly. The point to mentioning diamonds is that a really in-depth article could legitimately mention Israel at Diamond#Gemstones and their distribution, but I would nevertheless not see the topic itself as being covered by the ban. In other words, the bans should be interpreted broadly but not absurdly broadly. The question then is whether this proposed article is of that nature or whether it is more like indirectly participating in the dispute by promoting one side. I have given my answer, but I think that there is enough doubt that I am deferring to this board instead of summarily rejecting the request. Perhaps I should have opened this request myself instead of asking Mbz1 to do the work. If nobody else thinks that the proposed article is a good idea, then we should close this by asking Mbz1 to wait a few months. If the general opinion is that I am being too cynical, needlessly standing in the way of the development of the encyclopedia, or punishing Mbz1 for the possible future edits of others, then we should get out of the way.

Mbz1, I think I was unclear in my closing comment; sorry about that. My meaning was that if I had been the first to see that thread, I would have closed it. I found some of the points made against you singularly uncompelling, but there was enough legitimate concern that I think focusing on other areas for a while would be a good idea. I try to do this for myself periodically, and generally find it quite refreshing. I read your work on Lower Swell and found it quite neat, and your pictures are casually fantastic. - 2/0 (cont.) 11:44, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With that clarification in mind and any cycnicism I had put to rest by Mbz's explanation of why she wants to write the article, I propose:

We allow her to create the article in her userspace, but
She should seek comments from at least two of the admins who have commented in this section before moving it to mainspace
If the article attracts edits which put it within the scope of ARBPIA after it is moved to mainspace, Mbz must not edit the article any further until the expiration or successful appeal of her topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:31, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, this has been open for nearly a week and we owe Mbz1 an answer. I am going to err on the side of getting a new article for the encyclopedia, under the conditions below:
- Article to be created in userspace;
- Article to be reviewed by at least two of the uninvolved admins who have commented here or at the original AE thread before being moved to mainspace;
- If any ARBPIA-related edit is made by any editor to the article or its talkpage, the article will be considered to be covered by Mbz1's current topic ban.

Mbz1, if this is acceptable, I hope to read your article soon; if this is not acceptable, please re-open this request or open a new one. - 2/0 (cont.) 13:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus

No action taken.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Piotrus

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Mibelz

User against whom enforcement is requested: Piotrus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions

I have just read Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus's inform. He had written: rv move: in Polish context, it is wójt, not vogt. First of all, we rather use English words, than Polish, Russian, etc., in the English Wikipedia. Look at the article, please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_vogt_Albert The Rebellion of vogt Albert was an uprising of burghers of the Polish city of Cracow in the years 1311–12. What is he taking about? -- Mibelz 21:46, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've blocked Mibelz for 20 hours for page move warring. AGK [•] 22:10, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As for the complaint against Piotrus: he made only two page moves, compared to Mibelz's three, and the second of his two was accompanied by a detailed talk page rationale. On balance, I therefore would dismiss this complaint as without merit. AGK [•] 22:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with closing this request. There is a previous one dealing with Mibelz and nothing Piotrus has done in this matter is actionable. Eluchil404 (talk) 05:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nableezy

No action taken.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Nableezy

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Rym torch (talk) 23:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

20:50, 12 May 2011 Nableezy is currently banned from all articles related to the I-P conflict, broadly construed. Above is a discussion (related to a similar ban on User:Mbz1) which indicates that even articles about new Israeli bandages or Israeli startups are within the scope of such a ban. Majida_El_Roumi clearly falls within that scope, as her article discusses her songs, among them "Elie Choueiri composed two more patriotic songs for this album, the powerful Qana, condemning the Israeli massacres there", and under "Career highlights" it notes that "Magida takes a firm stand opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territories and Israeli human rights violations. During her concert in Beirut on April 15, 2002, She said, "What is going now in Palestine is a crime against humanity, and I am here to say a final 'No!' to the Israeli occupation. To the Palestinians, I say, our hearts are with you; our souls are with you; justice is with you, and the land will always be yours." She also released the song, "Qana", Anakid Al- Ghadab April 1996,as a form of protest against the massacre that the Israelis committed in the town of Qana in southern Lebanon."

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Block and extend or rest topic ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

@T. Canens: if that's not a violation, why would mbz1 be in violation of an identical ban if she wrote about Israeli bandages, without mentioning the conflict?

Not making a WP:POINT here, just making sure we use consistent standards. I asked the admin who imposed the sanction on Nableezy what the difference is, and he said i should ask here. I do so, and now I'm to be blockewd for this? Rym torch (talk) 00:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC) @HJM: are you saying an article that specifically discusses the subject's involvement in the conflict is outside the topic ban scope, but an article about bandages is within the scope?[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[111]

Discussion concerning Nableezy

Statement by Nableezy

Can somebody block this sock of NoCal? Magda el-Roumy is not in the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. Yes, she has sung a few songs about Israel, and the things that beacon of light for all humanity has done, but most of her songs are love songs and other such things. Every single Arab singer of any import over the last 60 years has at least one song about Israel. From Abdel Halim to Umm Kulthoum, from Fairouz to Abdel Wahab. If I cant even write about Arab musicians without a sock of NoCal hounding my contributions to report me here then you might as well block me and be done with it. I did not touch any part of the article that deals with the conflict. My edit removed a link to a non-existent image. If that is a topic ban violation then Wikipedia as a whole is in the Arab-Israeli topic area. But really, can somebody please block this NoCal sock? Pretty please? nableezy - 23:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar enough with NoCal; can you file an WP:SPI please and request checkuser attention? NW (Talk) 23:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is already done, and I have sent additional evidence to HelloAnnyong. I could send it to you as well if you wish. But based on the typing problems with Rym torch's edits I am certain he is editing from a cell phone which will make any CU data useless. But there is additional behavioral evidence that I can provide to you. nableezy - 23:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you have some reason (like WP:BEANS or privacy concerns), it might be an idea to post the evidence publicly at SPI so we can have a discussion about the matter. I'm not familiar enough with NoCal to comment on the merits of the accusation. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:58, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, such a discussion would enable future socks to evade detection. As you can see here, it is a certainty that there will be more socks. nableezy - 00:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy

This is a frivolous report and should be dismissed. nableezy removed a redlink to an image (of the performer) that doesn't exist. I fail to see what that has to do with the Arab–Israeli conflict. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 23:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Nableezy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Removing a redlink on a page of a "Lebanese singer and a soprano"? I don't see how that is a topic ban violation. T. Canens (talk) 23:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you have to look that ahrd to a see a violation of a topic ban, it's not there. Although I'm scaling back my activity here, I'd suggest an admonishment of the filer for filing a frivolous AE request. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:43, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Silly me, I should have read up the page. I propose a block and/or restriction on filing complaints at noticeboards for the filer, who is clearly trying to make a point. No comment on the Mbz thread, I wasn't aware of its existence until a minute ago. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:56, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Closing as no action. Note that filer has been blocked indefinitely for reasons unrelated to this complaint. T. Canens (talk) 06:24, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

46.38.162.18

Proxy sock blocked

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning 46.38.162.18

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: RolandR (talk) 10:15, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: 46.38.162.18 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

07:28, 16 May 2011 Replacing consensus, wikilinked term Arab citizens of Israel with POV alternative "Israeli Arabs"
09:29, 16 May 2011 ditto
09:51, 16 May 201 ditto
09:27, 16 May 2011 Tendentiously misciting
09:44, 16 May 2011 Ditto

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

block of this and all related socks.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This IP, apparently part of a disruptive sockfarm targeting IP articles, persists in adding or removing material from articles on the basis of mis-citing sources. Please note that, under the terms of the arbitration: "Clear vandalism, or edits by anonymous IP editors, may be reverted without penalty".

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning 46.38.162.18

Statement by 46.38.162.18

I have no idea what any of this means - all I know is this: he initiated an edit war with me, warned me of 3RR, he then BREACHED 3RR, i reported him - then this appears. And he still continues to delete all my contributions. Voila. 46.38.162.18 (talk) 10:49, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning 46.38.162.18

Result concerning 46.38.162.18

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I've blocked the IP as a socking anonymising proxy used by a blocked or banned user. Also, Roland's identification of this sock elsewhere is correct, IMO. I consider this request closed. Other socks should be dealt with at ANI or as they turn up. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 22:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GoodDay

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning GoodDay

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Daicaregos (talk) 20:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: GoodDay (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

16 May 2011 Reverting "Northern Ireland is a constituent country of the United Kingdom." to "Northern Ireland (Irish: Tuaisceart Éireann, Ulster Scots: Norlin Airlann) is one of the four countries of the United Kingdom."
16 May 2011 Reverting "Northern Ireland is a constituent country of the United Kingdom." to "Northern Ireland (Irish: Tuaisceart Éireann, Ulster Scots: Norlin Airlann) is one of the four countries of the United Kingdom."
16 May 2011 Reverting "Northern Ireland is a constituent country of the United Kingdom." to "Northern Ireland (Irish: Tuaisceart Éireann, Ulster Scots: Norlin Airlann) is one of the four countries of the United Kingdom."

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 16 May 2011 by Mo ainm (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested topic ban

The user is a persistent low level disruptive editor. Numerous requests to edit constructively appear regularly on their Talkpage. There seems to be no awareness that their opinion should be supported by verifiable, reliable sources. Their heavy involvement in sensitive, delicate areas does not seem to be accompanied by sensitive, delicate editing e.g. despite having an extensive knowledge of WP:BISE and WP:BITASK they added "British Isles" to an article here directly contradicting their statements here, here and here at BITASK.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [112] :

Discussion concerning GoodDay

Statement by GoodDay

I messed up 'big time' on this article, even though I was trying to restore the status-quo version of that article's intro. A version which 'ironically' I oppose. I plumb forgot about the 1RR restriction on the article-in-question & so I should be blocked. GoodDay (talk) 20:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, the "threat" that Daicaregos mentions, was 'in fact' a typo, which I (moments later) fixed. Therefore, there was/is no threat. GoodDay (talk) 04:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning GoodDay

Please note that I have been contacted by User:GoodDay here, which I consider to be further evidence of their inappropriate behaviour. Daicaregos (talk) 20:18, 16 May 2011 (UTC) ... and they have continued to post inappropriately both at this page and at my Talkpage. Daicaregos (talk) 20:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC) ... and User:GoodDay continues to intimidate me. It is highly inappropriate for them to contact me while this is live. Would someone please ask them to stop. Thanks. Daicaregos (talk) 22:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC) ... on and on Daicaregos (talk) 22:52, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would fully support Daicaregos assessment that GoodDay is a low level disruptive editor. GoodDay seems to contribute very little to this project in terms of actual content but is actively involved in what can only be described as stirring the pot. I also get the impression that he might actual want a ban... Bjmullan (talk) 20:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I find this rather poor taste to be honest. GD has already said he'd forgotten about the 1RR, and was actually reverting (believe it or not) to get back a consensus that was 'hard won' a couple of years ago: ie to avoid more 'problems'. He was actually reverting edits that he's been arguing for for years. I don't think that was clever at all (and have told him so) but is it really something to complain about in here? Whatever people say about Goodday, there are clear nationalist agendas that (for me personally) ultimately 'counterbalance' his behaviour. If it is 'extreme' to insist as GD does that Wikipedia can only use the term 'country' for sovereign states, then surely it is also 'extreme' to refuse to allow the term 'constituent country', which the avowed Scottish and Welsh nationalists do. They also use their talk pages as 'Facebook' pages for talking about devolution, which I find totally inappropriate for WP. I personally think they should flipping-well put up with GoodDay's misdemeanour’s, because he really does nothing compared to what they've got away with for years imo. At the end of the day, the whole UKnationality 'area' is much more of a problem than individual mavericks like GD, or Sarah777 too. WP's inability to offer solid guidance on nationality is surely not their fault. IMO it is ultimately Wikipedia's - and largely for allowing these kind of 'cabals' to so-comfortably settle in and light their nightly candles. It's impossible to make progress with cabals as tight as this. 'Cabals' are the scourge of Wikipedia, and to my knowledge wP does nothing to even try to discourage or prevent them. Why not even attempt to deal with it? And I'd personally take this complaint a lot more seriously if somebody neutral opened it, rather than Dai Caregos, who's very much involved in it all. Matt Lewis (talk) 21:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I assume Matt Lewis means me, Daicaregos, rather than a user with a similar name. I had no involvement during GoodDay's revert spree on a page with well-known edit restrictions. Matt Lewis's polemic has absolutely no relevance to this matter and is skirting very close to a personal attack. Matt Lewis has had been almost invisible on Wikipedia since August last year (other than to do some campaigning hoping to try to save a reservoir near where he lives), until yesterday, and can't possibly know what has been going on here over the last nine months. Daicaregos (talk) 21:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other than a decidely un-wikipedian template for BI, I've noticed very little changes at all. And I'm not in the smallest bit surprised either. I expect GD has been the same as ever, as I expect has it all. And if Calil is getting cheesed off, when have any one of you ever seen an admin get through all this with a smile on his face? If I've missed anything maybe you could help me get up to scratch? I actually came back for the reservoir thing (not a campaign, but to counter-balance the most obviously-made SPA company bias you'll see on WP), and noticed that Sarah's been indefinitely blocked (which should really be a warning over complaining about GD - these things can get really out of hand). Matt Lewis (talk) 21:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While GoodDay is a long term low level disruptive editor and I fully understand Dai's frustration here it is the case that GoodDay was properly reinstating a long standing consensus position against three editors at least two of which were fully aware of the agreement. Matt goes a little over the top and we could really do with a lot less drama on this subject. I suggest that its a warning for a technical infringement if needed and also that someone keeps an eye on the page. Long term consensus positions should not be changed without agreement and this was a mediated consensus reached across four articles --Snowded ^TALK 05:14, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would say I go 'to the top' sometimes. I've just seen so little change Snowded. But I could use less drama right now too - I can't seem to concentrate on different things on WP like I used to. Anyway, perhaps this could be closed, Dai? (or just left, or whatever). NI wasn't the strongest platform from which to raise your concerns at very least. Matt Lewis (talk) 11:54, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning GoodDay

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

@@ Line 762: / Line 762: @@
 == Mbz1 topic ban clarification ==
+{{hat|Create article in user space to be reviewed. - [[User talk:2over0|2/0]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/2over0|cont.]])</small> 13:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)}}
 ====Statement by Mbz1====
 I'd like to write an article about Israeli medical high pressure bandages please. This article is not falling under my topic ban restrictions as they were specified [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive86#Mbz1 here] There are not going to be any single word about the conflict, and I mean this.[[:User:Gatoclass]] requested I consult him about my new articles, if I have a doubt about the topic. I have zero doubts, but I did ask Gato, and he eventually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gatoclass#As_promiced agreed that I could write this article without violating my topic ban.] I also asked my banning administrator , and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:2over0#May_I_please_write_one_more_article.3F he declined my request], but kindly allowed me to ask for a review of my proposal at AE, so here I am.
@@ Line 873: / Line 873: @@
 :::::*She should seek comments from at least two of the admins who have commented in this section before moving it to mainspace
 :::::*If the article attracts edits which put it within the scope of ARBPIA after it is moved to mainspace, Mbz must not edit the article any further until the expiration or successful appeal of her topic ban. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]]  23:31, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
+* Alright, this has been open for nearly a week and we owe Mbz1 an answer. I am going to err on the side of getting a new article for the encyclopedia, under the conditions below:
+** Article to be created in userspace;
+** Article to be reviewed by at least two of the uninvolved admins who have commented here or at the original AE thread before being moved to mainspace;
+** If any ARBPIA-related edit is made by any editor to the article or its talkpage, the article will be considered to be covered by Mbz1's current topic ban.
+: Mbz1, if this is acceptable, I hope to read your article soon; if this is not acceptable, please re-open this request or open a new one. - [[User talk:2over0|2/0]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/2over0|cont.]])</small> 13:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
+{{hab}}
 ==Piotrus==

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