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Sulmues

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Sulmues

User requesting enforcement: Athenean (talk) 05:55, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Sulmues (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: WP:ARBMAC#Principles#Purpose of Wikipedia

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

This user displays classic WP:BATTLE mentality. Many of his actions appear calculated and solely designed to irritate other editors as much as possible, without any obvious benefit to Wikipedia. Whether it is aggresively-worded, inane merger proposals [1] accompanied by talkpage rants [2] as a way of getting around the normal AfD process, or adding articles that have nothing to do with Albania to the Albania TF in a tendentious manner [3] [4] [5] [6] and then using inflammatory language on the TF page to rally the troops so as to make sure the Albanian National POV is represented [7] [8], it just doesn't stop.

At Pyrros Dimas, a BLP article, he's been at it for months [9]. Just when things had quieted down a bit, he has now managed to mis-read WP:MOSBIO and he has started the nonsense all over again [10]. His proposal is utterly nonsensical (P.D. renounced his Albanian citizenship early on, and became notable after that) and based on a (deliberately?) flawed understanding of WP:MOSBIO. It's pretty clear he won't stop until he has had his way in that article. Such proposals are motivated by nothing more than nationalist feeling, generate tons of wikidrama, and do absolutely nothing to improve the encyclopedia.

Here he is aggressively editing another flashpoint article [11] [12], adding massive amounts of inflammatory material while admonishing others to go to the talkpage and not revert him. The mere fact that on this very thread, he defends such edits as "very good" speaks volumes.

But most egregious of all is this post to another user's talkpage, urging him to create a new battleground article [13]. Such inflammatory "we-are-victims" articles and the countless hours of wikidrama they invariably generate are the last thing this encyclopedia needs, especially in an area as troubled as the Balkans. Recruiting other editors to create battleground articles is the epitome of WP:BATTLE behavior (incidentally, User:Mladifilozof does nothing else on this encyclopedia but create such battleground articles). And this is in just the last two days! It just doesn't end with this guy, it's like his mind can't stop coming up with ways to create new battlegrounds. A couple of weeks ago I filed this AE request [14], where he only narrowly escaped a topic ban on the thinnest of technicalities. Yet instead of heeding the warning, it appears he has taken the fact that he got away with it as an endorsement and is now even more aggressive. Though he has also made positive contributions, I believe he causes far more harm to the project than good. I am convinced that there won't be peace and quiet on Albania-related topics as as long as this user is allowed to edit them. He was given a chance last time, and he blew it.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): [15]

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Topic ban from Albania-related topics

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: I also see on this very thread that Sulmues is threatening to press ahead with the creation of a Cham Genocide article, even though a literature search reveals such a term doesn't exist [16] [17]. If that's not classic WP:BATTLE behavior, I don't know what is. Also, the stuff about Pyrrhus of Epirus and the antiquity articles is malarkey, but is very illustrative: Claims that he and the Molossians and Thesprotians are Albanians are WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE. Pyrrhus' capital was in Arta, far to the south, he founded only *one* city, Antigonia (Chaonia), in the territory of present-day Albania. So what? Only nationalists consider Pyrrhus to be Albanian. There are plenty of Albanian nationalists that also consider Alexander the Great to be Albanian,. Does that mean that their views should be included in that article? Sulmues wild claims about "The Albanian archaeologists' NPOV is continuously deleted in Wikipedia by the Greek editors." is sheer nonsense, and his posts to the TF talkpage are a classic call to arms to ensure that the Albanian nationalist POV is represented in these articles. Nothing could be more WP:BATTLE than that. Today it's Pyrros Dimas and Pyrrhus of Epirus, tomorrow it's going to be Achilles [18] (referring to this image [19]) and Alexander the Great (and probably still Pyrros Dimas). I also note that many of Sulmues' wild accusations on this thread are completely unfounded and beyond the pale, whether about my perceived "extreme rudeness" (when in fact it was he who was trolling my talkpage), "extreme edit-warring", or about "anyone who dares question Pyrrhus' Greek origins will be reported" (that's a funny way of describing academic and wikipedia consensus). Sulmues' claims on this thread that "I must have read that in some inappropriate website" are disingenuous and an insult to the community's intelligence. Athenean (talk) 04:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [20]

Discussion concerning Sulmues

Statement by Sulmues

I know this editor (user:athenean) only because of his extreme edit-warring and the reports that he files against me. Only recently he got a block [21] because of his edit-warring at Vjose. It is a mystery to me how an editor with more than 8k edits, such as Athenean, a Tutnum, would recur to edit-warring.

If an admin falls into the traps of this user:Athenean report, then I'll be glad to be topic banned and I'll quit Wikipedia, because that will mean that there is something wrong with the whole system. Athenean has made more reports against me than he has written any articles (only 4, see [22]), whereas I have written 75 (see here), out of which 72 only in the last three months, however he is a specialist in reporting people who contribute and use proper sources, and he'll make sure to revert them to death because of wp:idontlikeit. Below I will bring some reverts that he has made, notably in Albanian language, but just to give an example of the many reverts that he makes I'll bring this one [23] where he liquidates me in a second as a POV editor, while deleting my sources. I could bring much more, but I am here to defend myself.

I am an incredibly valuable contributor to the Albanian Task force because of my edits and articles created. It is contributors like me that Athenean would love to kick out in order to assert his POV in Albania related topics: I am trying to enter through consensus NPOV whereas his POV pushing and continuous wp:harassment against me has been noted at the Arbmac talk page (Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Statement_by_sulmues). I know what this is all about: the article that I will write on the Cham Genocide. I have already asked for the collaboration of user:mladifilozof on the topic (see here) because he is a political analyst and his style would be more than helpful. Mladifilozof gently offered to help ([24]). User:Athenean would love to prevent that from happening and he promptly reported me here (see here). 25k Cham Albanians were expulsed from Greece in 1944-1945 even though the discrimination started much earlier (see Cham_Albanians#Population_exchange_and_appropriation_of_property_.281923.E2.80.931926.29, Cham_Albanians#Discrimination_and_normalization_.281927.E2.80.931936.29, Cham_Albanians#Crackdown_under_the_Metaxas_regime_.281936.E2.80.931940.29, Cham_Albanians#First_expulsion, and Cham_Albanians#Involvement_in_the_Greek_Civil_War.2C_repatriation_by_ELAS_and_final_expulsion). An article on the Cham genocide is warranted in Wikipedia and I intend to write it. Everyone can then nominate it for deletion.

So far User:Athenean has accused me of socketpuppetry, edit-warring, you name it. He will never stop, until an admin will take a decision to block him for harassment. He is extremely rude when I talk to him in the talk page (see the most recent [25], [26]), or in the articles' talk page even though I have a point [27]. I don't respond to his incivil comments and I swim away.

Now I'll address the accusations because I have to do so for respect of the time of the deciding admin. They are ALL ill-suited and my defense follows:

inane merger proposals [28]

How is a merger proposal inane? It actually makes sense to have Albanian nationalism merged to Greater Albania.

accompanied by talkpage rants [29]

This is not a rant: Many arguments in the article are not well supported. Nationalism seems to have started in Albania in 1994 after Edward Jacques according to Athenean POV. This just doesn't make sense.--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[30]

Tsamiko dance. So I guess, it is Ok for User:Athenean to expel 25,000 Cham Albanians (children included), as collaborationist with the Nazis, but instead keep their dance in the Greek TF only, and not under the Albania TF? The Tsamiko Dance (Albanian: vallja came) is extremely popular in Albania, used in wedding parties. Not only that, but the dance has even more variants than it has in Greece, notably the Dance of Osman Taka. His partner, Alexikoua made sure to revert me ([31])--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[32]

Pyrrhus of Epirus lived in an area that is in modern Albania and that's where the most important archaeological excavations are made. The Albanian archaeologists' NPOV is continuously deleted in Wikipedia by the Greek editors. We are forced to keep our references here (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albania#Origin_of_Albanians) because we know that we'll be edit warred, reverted and reported. See four times deletions of user:Athenean only in Albanian language ([[33], [34], [35], and [36]). We are not even allowed to put the article in the Albania TF (see revert [37] where user Athenean even takes out my talk in the talk page with derogatory comments. Both Pyrrhus cities: Butrint, his main residence, and Antigonia_(Chaonia), are in modern Albania. The discoveries of neutral archaeologists that assert the Illyrian origin of Phyrrus are completely, arrogantly, and mysteriously ignored. Whomever dares to go against Pyrrhus' Greek origin and tries to bring sources about his Illyrian origin will be reported. Actually I reconsidered this in the Pyrrhus talk page and stroke my edits. It doesn't seem there is sufficient evidence to claim Illyrian origin of Pyrrhus. See Talk:Pyrrhus_of_Epirus#Albania_TF--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[38] [39].

I am trying to enter these articles under the Albania TF project. Both the Molossians and the Thesprotians (the last one correspond to the territories inhabited by Cham Albanians) cannot be under the Albania TF according to User:Athenean. I was reverted for each one of them ([40]) and ([41]), and did not edit-war, but those areas of Southern Epirus have historically had an Albanian presence that culminated with the dinasty of Gjin Bue Shpata in the 14th century. The Greek editors continue to say that there is no link between the Illyrians and the Albanians, just to assert that in the antiquity the Molossians, Thesprotians and Chaonians were not Illyrians but Greek. Actually there is a lot of evidence to contrast that. In addition several Albanian archaeologists (Korkuti, Prendi, Ceka) endorse the continuity Pelasgian-Illyrian which makes the Greek editors infuriate more than anything else (Read [42]). These people have been archaeologists for the last 50 years and were not born yesterday.--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

using inflammatory language on the TF page to rally the troops [43] [44].

I don't know where you see the fire in my language. The fire is only in your reports. We are collaborating in our Albania TF to provide sources that are NPOV. There are no flames. Everything that the Albania TF stands for is good secondary sources.--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

At Pyrros Dimas, a BLP article, he's been at it for months' [45].

Just when things had quieted down a bit, he has now managed to mis-read WP:MOSBIO and he has started the nonsense all over again [46].

Read Talk:Pyrros_Dimas#Per_Manual_of_Style_the_lead_paragraph_is_wrong. Read it carefully. I am right per MOS. Dimas was World's Vice Champion juniores, European Master and member of the Albanian national team in Weightlifting that placed 3rd in European Championship and 2nd in European Cup for Nations. He was notable already and at that time had no Greek citizenship. My proposal to mention that he holds both passports, but has Greek ethnicity is very sensible. You are getting continuous reverts from IP addresses because a lot of people are angry to read in Wikipedia that he is only Greek. He was a great Albanian champion way before he became a champion in Greece. Per MOS he was already notable, as I explain in the talk page. What is currently in the lead is to say the least controversial, besides being incorrect per Wiki policy. Can I add now that I know Pirro Dhima personally and that I have talked to him several times? I know exactly who he is and what he stands for, but this is outside the point. --sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty clear he won't stop until he has had his way in that article. Such proposals are motivated by nothing more than nationalist feeling, generate tons of wikidrama, and do absolutely nothing to improve the encyclopedia.

Actually all the wikidrama I get is from you.--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here he is aggressively editing another flashpoint article [47] [48], adding massive amounts of inflammatory material while admonishing others to go to the talkpage and not revert him.

I made very good contributions (see difference. Filates was a town populated mostly with Albanians until 1945 when the final Cham Genocide occurred. You are trying to hide a genocide in Wikipedia using WP:AE to report me who is writing it down with plenty of good references. See reverts that were made to my very well sourced edits ([49] and [50], [51], through edit-warring of the tandem Megistias-Alexikoua. I did not engage in edit warring --sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But probably the worst of all is this post to another user's talkpage, urging him to create a new battleground article [52].

Mladifilozof is a professional political analyst. He has written plenty of articles on the Genocides and is the most respected person around to be able to help with the Cham Genocide. I pointed it out in the beginning that you just want the Cham Genocide to disappear from everywhere. Turkey has tried to do that with the Armenian Genocide, but couldn't do it.--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And this is in just the last two days! It just doesn't end with this guy, it's like his mind can't stop coming up with ways to create new battlegrounds. A couple of weeks ago I filed this AE request [53], where he only narrowly escaped a topic ban on the thinnest of technicalities.

So are you trying to make an OJ Sympson case here? This is unbelievable. There was absolutely nothing to support your claims and user:Sandstein didn't fall into your trap. I hope the next admin won't fall either. You know that I'll write Cham Genocide and I know that you'll bring it to AfD. Let me write it first and then you can bring it to AfD.--sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Though he has also made positive contributions, I believe he causes far more harm to the project than good. I am convinced that there won't be peace and quiet on Albania-related topics as as long as this user is allowed to edit them. He was given a chance last time, and he blew it.

Since I started to contribute heavily in December 2009 the number of the Albanian topics has almost doubled, because I have tagged many Albanian related topics, written articles and kept excellent communication with Albanian and non-Albanian users to improve our Task Force. The number of the Albanian related topics went from ~900 to 1700+ only in three months (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albania/To_Do_List)! Whether I am here to improve Wikipedia with my 6.4k edits and 75 articles that's not for you to decide. If I were you, I would focus more on writing articles than on reverting, edit-warring, and falsely reporting. Your behavior classically falls under wp:harassment, but I am too busy to report you and I have faith in the admins. I need to write down articles instead and take care of my Albania TF. Not only you are not leaving me alone but along with user:alexikouayou are also accusing other editors as soon as they join Wikipedia with false accusations of socketpuppetry, harassing them as soon as they start contributing (see (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Sarandioti/Archive#Report_date_March_13_2010.2C_01:24_.28UTC.29). You are harassing many Albanian contributors with your lack of faith and continuous battleground behavior. Look at yourself first before accusing anyone. I have been even too patient with you too. I should report you for harassment. --sulmues (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am finished unless some other Greek editor makes any further accusations, which is usually the practice they follow when they accuse me. --sulmues (talk) 14:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok here they come: I am basically accused that the IP editors revert Alexikoua??? How can I be accused that your edit-warring is reverted? You just got out of a 3 day block [54], because you always revert and edit-war with derogatory comments. I have advised you several times not to edit-war but sort the issues in the talk page or through my user page. I usually will say to you in your talk page if I revert you, and we have had good collaborations for many articles, such as Andreas Zarbalas. Why not continue that? Ops, I noticed that you have already reverted my proper sourced additions in Filiates ([55] and [56]) and then the usual tag teamed revert by Megistias ([57]). I won't engage in edit warring with you, don't have the time. You are disruptive with your edits. Shkumbin: You were reverted by other people, not by me. And yes, I agree with their edits [58], as you are trying to enter in Wikipedia that there are no Albanians South of Shkumbin, leaving half of the Albanian nation (the tosks) out of nowhere.

Regarding the fact that I disregarded user:sandstein's warning: I really took that warning seriously, but Sandstein had not read my answer fully when he made the decision. --sulmues (talk) 15:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to the statement of user:tadija. user:ZjarriRrethues argumented very well about his goals, but his edit got messed up with a very disruptive edit that user:tadija just made, which completely messed up the timing of the postings ([59]). That edit should be possibly reverted. That very revert to mess up the timing of the postings, and to have the last word is indicative enough of that person. I told him in his talk page to revert himself ([60]) but he didn't do it, and here is his mocking response [61]--sulmues (talk) 16:44, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again for Tadija. The last decent interaction I had with you was here. User_talk:Gaius_Claudius_Nero#Skanderbeg, where you didn't answer me. Then you jumped on the boat in the last two reports that user:athenean filed against me. Now you are bringing an edit from May 2008[62]. In addition, could you please get comfortable with Wikipedia:Don't_template_the_regulars? That's the reason why I deleted that message. --sulmues (talk) 18:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to the additional comment of user:Athenean. You just confirmed that all this is about your fear about the new article Cham Genocide. You can read that the Albanian government brought it up in the Paris Conference in 1946 (see here). You may also want to know that in Albania there is a 1994 law about the Cham Genocide see here, when 27 June is declared by the Albanian Government as the Day of the Cham Albanians who suffered Genocide fro the Greek Shauvinism. Plenty of more sources to come. Make sure to bring the article to AfD as soon as it's ready as you already did for all the Cham Albanians founding fathers of Albania (Veli Gërra (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Veli_Gërra), Jakup Veseli (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jakup_Veseli), Rexhep Demi (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Rexhep Demi), Azis Tahir Ajdonati (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Azis Tahir Ajdonati)). --sulmues (talk) 21:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment for user:Athenean. Under Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#What_is_considered_to_be_a_personal_attack.3F you can read that personal attacks include:

Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence.

If you continuously accuse with your diffs not supporting what you say, then this falls under harassment. In the last accusation you accused me of being incivil, and it turned out that all your diffs did not support that. Before you had accused meto be a Sockpuppet) endorsing a false accusation, and prior you had accused me at Moreschi's page again as a sock, again unjustly. They were all false accusations and proved so. But you did not stop, and I don't think you will until you get your way. Now you are reporting under wp:battleground and when all your diffs will be proved wrong, this will fall under harassment. You have been warned. You are harassing me. --sulmues (talk) 23:14, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another comment on the accusations that you make to a newbie like you derogatorily call ZjarriRrethues. I think he is defending me based on my contributions, but also based on the fact that probably he senses that you won't stop with me and he is next in your agenda of accusation of every Albanian editor. He probably senses that you will never stop in making wikipedia your personal battleground and POV pushing place. You accuse me of hypocrisy about Pyrrhus of Epirus, but those edits were made in good faith and I stroke myself in the talk page. You have already accused ZjarriRrethues improperly to be a sockpuppet and have done so in several occasions. That falls under personal attacks and you have continued to do so after you had been warned [63]]--sulmues (talk) 23:46, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talking of sockpuppets, it seems that instead, user:tadija is likely to be one even though it was not confirmed (see [is a likely sock per checkuser]), only per intercession of a Serbian admin (User:Obradovic_Goran) that works for the Serbian wikipedia, which I found very odd. --sulmues (talk) 23:46, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Concluding, I think that I might have exagerated while I tagged Albania TF Pyrrhus of Epirus without having full proper sources. I must have read some website that is far from proper secondary sources. In addition my intention was mainly to bring to the community Albanian language sources for the two main cities that are in modern Albania, Antigonia (Chaonia) and Butrint, both founded by Pyrrhus, so my intentions were in good faith. However I apologize for that to the Wikipedia community: because I asserted that he might have Illyrian origin, while that still is not verifiable. I already apologized to the community in the talk page as well. But from here to say that I should be topic banned is a long way, I believe. All the other diffs do not support what user:Athenean is accusing me of. The Albania TF is a better place since I joined and many Albanian related topics are being covered. I think although I have received plenty of accusations from User:Athenean, and although he is a very proud person, he has a good logic and with some effort can learn to respect other users, because right now he is not respecting me. On my side, I will try to respect a little bit more him. --sulmues talk contributions 15:08, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Sulmues

Comment by Mladifilozof

"incidentally, User:Mladifilozof does nothing else on this encyclopedia but create such battleground articles".

Please Athenean, if you think that my behavior on Wikipedia is irregular or offensive, report me regularly and I shall have the right to defend myself. Do not accuse me behind my back. Thanks.--Mladifilozof (talk) 16:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by ZjarriRrethues

Although I have partially commented on this matter, since Athenean continues to try to get Sulmues blocked I'll reply again here. I told yesterday to Athenean to take it easy[64] and not attack other users. About this matter:

[65] is as anyone can see a discussion where Sulmues says that if no one objects he will make the changes, so I can't understand how this is "agressive or inflamatory"
[66]He is asking from a user to write an article, since he thinks that user is more experienced. Again I don't really see why this is agressive.
[67][68] He posted a proposal and Athenean considers that "aggressive".
[69]As far as I can see this is sourced and isn't "inflammatory". I don't see how this is a problem according to Athenean.

[70] is a wikiproject talkpage so it is most normal to have such a message there and as far as I can tell he isn't "rallying" any "troops".

Generally, the language used in this report by Athenean is very aggressive, harassive and similar to other messages of Athenean like this [71]. Also in this report users like Mladifilozof have been mentioned and accused and I think they should be informed.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk11:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that this report is the result of overreaction and hostility. I think that all users should "take it easy" and spend their time improving wikipedia and not accusing and reporting each other, don't you all think?--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 13:10, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting Tadija: User:Sulmues showed numerous times that we don't want to follow NPOV, and meatpuppetry is just one of his ways. Actually, i think that it is pointless to add ones again all problematic diff's that Sulmues did. However, Tadija has had virtually no interaction with Sulmues except the 2 reports(with this being the second one) against Sulmues initiated by Athenean and Alexikoua, which he supported. At least now certain things are clear...--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 15:49, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How are any of these IPs related to Sulmues? I don't see any proof but accusations, so I'll regard your statement Alexikoua as a personal attack against him. In Shkumbin I see that the IPs are actually against Sulmues's consensus but that doesn't stop you Alexikoua from accusing him that they are collaborating with him. User:Tadija I see that you have had no interaction with User:Sulmues except when you again without having any interaction with him decided to support [[User:Alexikoua]'s] report where Alexikoua reported Sulmues as a sock . If I may quote I see that you said [72] This is such a DUCK, that i cannot say almost anything else which was proven wrong. Considering that this is the second time you interact with Sulmues and you do that only to support a report which is supported by the same users users who wanted to block him as a sockpuppet, is very suspicious.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 15:29, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I also find it pecular that in the very few interactions you've had with Sulmues Tadija, most of them had as participants also Alexikoua or Athenean.

I think I should remind to Athenean that JulianColton has already warned him not to accuse me for being a sockpuppet/meatpuppet or anything else.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:08, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Tadija

As i told earlier, the most damaging way of editing wikipedia is trough WP:BATTLE. User:Sulmues showed numerous times that we don't want to follow NPOV, and meatpuppetry is just one of his ways. Actually, i think that it is pointless to add ones again all problematic diff's that Sulmues did. I also agree, regarded user:Mladifilozof remark by Athenean. At the end, i give up. Tried with some reverts, but i simply had no will to enter marathon discussion, each time with same "arguments" and conclusions. So, i am out of that. Both of them don't know what neutral means, and both of them uses wikipedia just as a tool of accomplishing they're instinctive desires and POV's. When they are joined, then everything else is pointless to discuss. Per ARBMAC conclusion, that kind of editing is highly unwelcome in Balkan related articles. I already talked to User:Prodego regarding this, so it will be wise to invite him also into conversation.

No more words from me. Everything is already said.

Use of the site for other purposes—including, but not limited to, 
advocacy, propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, and political or ideological struggle—is prohibited.

This is the main idea why ARBMAC is generally established, in the first place. --Tadija^taking 14:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Zjarri - (No sources, despite more then 10 of them), (opened AfD, violation of the ban imposed here), (just one theory of Sulmues, Albanians as creators of Serb nation) (Warning about WP:FORUM that he deleted in the moment)...

And this is just few of them that i remember. Please, write in your own space, and don't write about things that are not true. Also, you dont need to comment everything on this page. One main comment will be good. --Tadija^taking 16:30, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Alexikoua

Sulmues has been advised multiple times to calm down and avoid battlefield behavior [[73]], but in vain. Last time he was warned for this [[74]], but he completely rejected this warning [[75]].

In the following days he continued this dangerous pattern. Although in some occasions, like in Shkumbin I&Sulmues initially reached an consensus [[76]], but after a few days the usual ip army that follows Sulmues attacked. Characteristically Sulmues continued to edit the article after the ip disruption but without reverting them, proving that he enjoyed this activity. Same situation in Filiates, Sulmues makes massive pov edits without initiating any discussion in article's talk page, he is reverted, but suddenly the ip army strikes again and restores his massive edits. In Pyrros Dimas he uses the dirsuption, created by ips [[77]], as an argument to promote his pov verion.Alexikoua (talk) 15:01, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some other examples are his late obsession to create the Cham Genocide (suppose to describe events already described in Expulsion of Cham Albanians but promoting his personal POV), and to support the 'Albanian POV' as he says here [[78]]. I see that his recent warning was just the reason to initiate a more massive wp:battle.Alexikoua (talk) 15:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What really impresses me is that User:Sulmues has never admitted that he overdid it (at least a little) after all this discussions, blocks and topic bans he received. Although he has been warned several times to avoid wp:battle by third part users [[79]] he mysteriously insists to play the victim of the situation, launching accusation against everyone. No wonder, he promised to continue his wp:battle behavior in near future [[80]].Alexikoua (talk) 14:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Lontech

Sulmues has made an extraordinary contribution to the improvement of articles

Allegations are from users without credibility (like tadija with more than one account-socks). and non-neutral users like Athenean and Aleksikoua who oppose everything that is against the greece politics(nationalism).-- LONTECH Talk 22:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Megistias

Sulmues has a static monolith of an opinion and stance on things that lacks all and any elasticity that would give him room for improvement and a positive view on things. According to him diff Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard Quote: "but the Greek editors (Athenean, Megistias, Alexikoua) work to prove that the Albanians have no connections with the Illyrians"..."seems like a very good plan to make today's Albanians seem as if they are foreigners in their own land, not autochtonous, which in the Balkans would be only the Greek population. No other population in the Balkans can enjoy the autochtonous status but the Greeks, according to these three editors."... "This is the standard that these three editors are following in all the history articles especially in the Illyrian Albanian articles that have been usurpated by them", etc, etc. The fact that he goes on expressing such views, and acting upon them, bearing a staunch belief that they are the state of affairs and motive behind activities makes this user's general attitude ligneous and unyielding. Megistias (talk) 11:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Kushtrim123

This is another bad faith nationalist driven report by users with blocks full of edit-warring blocks. Some of them like Athenean I found out that have been banned in the past from Balkans-related articles. Tadija has also been blocked because of having sockpuppets. Taking all of this in account, the explanations provided above for the so-called "proof against Sulmues", the large contributions of Sulmues in Albania-related articles, and the constant personal attacks against him by recently blocked users already blocked, I honestly must say that we should discard this so-called report as another harassive attack in a long series of personal attacks launched against him.--Kushtrim123 (talk) 14:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Sulmues

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Wikifan12345

Not actionable. AE does not resolve content disputes.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Wikifan12345

User requesting enforcement: Unomi (talk) 11:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Wikifan12345 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: Wikifan ignores wikipedia policy on Reliable sources. Ignores when issues are raised by involved editors as well as concerns raised by uninvolved editors on RS/N. Ignores multiple pleas to self-revert and remove problematic material. Employs stonewalling and WP:IDHT. This thread outlines the initial concerns.

Notified that uninvolved editors find fault with the source, stonewalling.

Request that material is reverted, [81] IDHT, evasive.
Link to RS/N section, shouldn't really be necessary, RS/N is not hard to find. [82] downplays concerns raised.
[83] Asked again to revert on basis of consensus. [84] Stonewalling, IDHT and non sequitur.
[85] Outside editor agrees that the source is inferior. No response.
[86] wikifan continued editing throughout this, including creating a new article with dubious sourcing.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): # [87] ANI thread for recently expired topic ban He was seen to be exhibiting a battleground mentality by the majority of !voting parties.

[88] Request by User:Unomi
[89] Made explicitly aware of extant sanctions on I/P articles.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): I would like to see Wikifan extract the information that he has added based on these sources. I would also ask that he is reminded to take sources to RS/N himself if they are challenged by other editors. If he is unwilling to do so I believe that the previous topic ban should be reinstated as I/P is an area in which high quality sources are particularly important.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: Wikifan continued introducing them even though he was aware of issues being raised by other editors, he made no attempt at validating them at RS/N at any point. He also created a new list article based largely on what seems SPS, rather than relying on the sources used on the articles he lists. I also find the tactic of stonewalling and IDHT to be particularly problematic as it is, as any editor will know, rather obnoxious. My repeated requests to him were precisely intended to avoid friction and edit warring. It is unfortunate that such efforts were ignored. Unomi (talk) 11:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]; Wikifan has opened a discussion on my talk page which is substantially similar to his query below. Unomi (talk) 12:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Jaakabou, I don't see how you believe that I misrepresented RS/N. If User:Itsmejudith is involved in I/P then it is news to me, she seems to be a regular and respected resident of RS/N. If you wish to weigh in at RS/N you are more than welcome to, but please don't bring that conversation here.

Response to Sandstein, please see [90]. Wikifan has not only previously been notified of the sanctions, he has been placed on restrictions twice for acting in contravention of them, it is inconceivable that he is not aware of what they cover, specifically regarding stonewalling and use of reliable sources.

Comment I note that Wikifan seems to be continuing the trend of idht on my talkpage. Unomi (talk) 13:22, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am discussing with wikifan, I am not sure if I should transclude that discussion here as it is basically a repeat of the problematic behavior. Wikifan seems to not even be bothering to read the sources he uses.

Response to Sandstein regarding procedure: here is an instance where he is linked directly to the sanctions. He is well aware of them. I made it clear throughout the episode that he should be more careful in his use of sources, specifically wrt JVL. 29th 20:49 I make him aware of the feedback from RS/N and ask him to use better sourcing. 30th 00:12 I tell him specifically that it was at RS/N. 30th 02:35 Claims not to know I have told him. 30th 05:52 Downplays the RS/N yet has not so far joined the discussion there. It simply cannot be that one has to engage in edit warring or reverting, how is it that normal discussion has become so ineffectual?

Response to Sandstein, this isn't a content dispute, RS/N have been involved and these particular pages have been found to be of inferior quality. The problem is that wikifan does not accept the RS/N consensus, and misrepresents other sources. I don't need to come to AE to resolve a content dispute, I need it to get editors to follow policy. Please note that the editor has not read the source that he sought to replace the JVL source with. He just expected that the other source would back the JVL one up, which was pointed out to him at the outset that it didn't.

Timeline of recent conversation:

13:01 at the end I give one specific edit and I tell him that the numbers don't match the source.
13:05 His response is to repeat the question of which edit.
13:11 I remind him that I have just given him 1 particular edit.
13:06 He concedes that I have given him an edit but insists that I have not told him what is wrong with it.
13:20 I repeat that the numbers don't match up, with specifics (which shouldn't be necessary as there is only 1 set of numbers that is backed up by sources anyway).
13:36 He again asks me which specific edit and then proceeds to discuss an edit completely different from the one I just pointed out to him thrice, he also claims that the 1,100 number is sourced to ITIC and not JVL.
13:43 I point out that the 1,100 number is not supported by ITIC.
13:50 He asks why it doesn't support stating that he has seen many graphs that add up to 1,100 and, crucially, the PDF doc. gives roughly the same amount, no? (he has not read the ITIC source), he again asks which edit I am referring to.
13:59 I point out that there is only 1 pertinent graph, on page 55 and it adds up to 521.

As of this edit Wikifan has not sought to respond. It simply can't stand that he doesn't read the sources, and I don't see the sense of other editors having to discuss with him at length over matters which should be apparent to him if only he would take the time to do careful research.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: Notified

Discussion concerning Wikifan12345

Statement by Wikifan12345

Unomi, what edits do you see to be problematic? I really haven't been paying much attention to this issue and you were never specific in your dispute. Can you link the edits on the article that you wish to be reverted? I was never trying to be "evasive" and I don't see how I was "stonewalling." What am I avoiding? Seriously? Does this even qualify as for ArbCom? Wikifan12345 (talk) 12:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cam someone here let me know what Unomi wants me to do? I'm being accused of "stonewalling" and evasion but I do not know what I am stonewalling or evading. Please, just someone tell me. Wikifan12345 (talk) 13:19, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Wikifan12345

Comment by Sandstein

Procedural remark: the sanctions remedy provides that "Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines." There is currently no diff in the request that shows that Wikifan12345 has received a warning that meets these requirements. If no such diff is provided, this request will not result in sanctions. Sandstein 12:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Jaakobou

The Jewish Virtual Library is most definitely a reliable source with an editorial process and scholar contributors. The 3 editors whom Unomi presents as "uninvolved editors on RS/N" are, in fact, involved to a fairly high degree. This can be easily verified through a review of their contribution history.
Reliability of JVL aside, I see Stellarkid suggested an alternative and it appears as though Wikifan12345 agreed[91] so I'm not really seeing a problem for Wikipedia's article space (from the diffs I looked into).
That said, I haven't looked deeply into the behavioural nature of this dispute but I'm concerned about both sides after I see an RSN being misrepresented like this.
From a superficial review, I'd suggest a warning to Wikifan12345 to be more communicative and a warning to Unomi for abuse of process. This is just a thought to consider as an option for someone reviewing the threads (I haven't really looked at relevant discussion threads).

Comment by Count Iblis

I like to know if Wikifan is or was under some editing or mentoring restrictions. I remember an AN/I discussion quite some time ago, where Wikifan was community banned. I was one of the few editors (perhaps the only one) to suggest that we should try harder keep Wikifan at Wikipedia and try some mentoring. What has happened since that time? Count Iblis (talk) 14:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Stellarkid

The Jewish Virtual Library has quite a few articles that link to it. See [92] It is an encyclopedic source which is appropriate for WP. Stellarkid (talk) 19:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Wikifan12345

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I don't see anything actionable here, and the requested enforcement doesn't seem to be within the scope of the discretionary sanctions, or necessarily useful. I second Wikifan's request for specific edits which are cited to unreliable sources; in default of this I will be closing in accordance with Jaakobou's suggestion. Stifle (talk) 14:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. I see nothing here but a disagreement about the reliability of a particular source. The requesting editor is advised that WP:AE is not a forum for resolving such disagreements (that would be WP:RSN) and is not to be misused as a way to gain an advantage in a content dispute. Sandstein 14:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quzeyli

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Quzeyli

User requesting enforcement

Sardur (talk) 21:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC) Mcnabs (talk) 22:44, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Quzeyli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: Last diffs (see infra) of Quzeyli's edit war on Amaras Monastery against several users:

[93] Revert (30 March 2010)
[94] Revert (31 March 2010)
[95] Revert 3 hours after having been warned (31 March 2010)
[96] Revert (1 April 2010)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

[97] Warning by Sardur (talk · contribs)
I don't understand the question below: this warning was posted on Quzeyli's talk page on 31 March 2010. After this, he made again 2 reverts on Amaras Monastery, 1 revert on Yeghishe Arakyal Monastery, and 1 on Tsitsernavank Monastery. Sardur (talk) 08:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): At the minimum (see infra), Quzeyli should be placed under supervised editing and revert limitation.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Summary: edit war + Quzeyli reverts and sometimes discusses on talk, repeating always the same point without addressing other users' questions.
The three above-mentioned diffs are only the top of the iceberg: see the history of the article, which shows that Quzeyli is editwarring since 14 March 2010. The same can be said about Yeghishe Arakyal Monastery: history (first revert on 10 March 2010).
Quzeyli has been warned by third-parties about his disruptive behaviour: by Excirial for Amaras Monastery (20 March), and by SGGH for both articles (28 March). About this last warning, it should be noted that Quzeyli carried on with editwarring after both articles were semi-protected.
And now, he is repeating his disruptive behaviour on Tsitsernavank Monastery.

As soon as his blocking is over : revert and revert. Sardur (talk) 11:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [98]

Discussion concerning Quzeyli

Statement by Quzeyli

Comments by others about the request concerning Quzeyli

Result concerning Quzeyli

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Please provide a link to where Quzeyli was warned of the existence of discretionary sanctions prior to the incident reported. Filest (aktl) 08:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
User was blocked 24 hours for standard edit warring, not as an Arbitration Enforcement action. They have also now been notified of the sanctions that apply to the area, which I shall log on the case page. NW (Talk) 03:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nableezy

Not actionable.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Nableezy

User requesting enforcement: Shuki (talk) 00:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions, WP:CIVIL, WP:HARASS, WP:NPLT

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Nableezy is trying to bully me here into editing for him by threatening to report me (even prepared an ANI to make the message to me stronger here: User:Nableezy/S) for allegedly violating 3RR [99]. Nableezy has recently been handed a 1R/page and cannot revert my edit addition (incidentally, not revert) which has a precedent and consensus on at least one page where I got the idea from and where it passed consensus there in order to remedy the political issue of the location and countries. This is a content issue that he should be settled on the discussion page of the college article and not come to hound me on my talk page.

[100] A discussion is underway on the discussion page, but Nableezy waits for 24hours + 2 minutes to revert so that he does not violate is 1R topic ban.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): discipline for bullying incivility and also pertaining to WP:ARBPIA issues at discretion of admin be it block or strengthening of current 1R topic ban.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: Nableezy's disruptive behaviour here and in the past, including his interaction with me, has lead to unproductive stress and conflict, specifically with his threat. Apparently, what he cannot achieve on article talk pages, he will attempt to achieve by personal bullying. Nableezy was recently topic banned for two months and has had issues of incivility in the past as well. He is currently on 1R and by the recent 24h + 2minute revert, linked above, shows that he does not understand his sanctions though he has literally fulfilled them, IMO, not in good faith.

Excuse me? So you are essentially saying that there is no difference between coming to taking part in healthy discussion on talk pages and waving a threat of blackmail in front of an editor.--Shuki (talk) 08:15, 2 April 2010 (UTC) (Comment moved from result section, Sandstein 08:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[101]

Discussion concerning Nableezy

Statement by Nableezy

I wasnt skirting a 1rr rule, that [last edit wasnt even a revert. It was an attempt at a compromise where the text neither says "occupied Golan Heights" or "Golan Heights, Israel" (something that was suggested at the NPOV/N at a thread I opened). I asked Shuki if he or she would rather I skip filing an AE request and try to work out the content issue without his or her mindlessly reverting everything. I see now I should not have been polite and just filed the request. Below is the AE thread I had prepared regarding Shuki's recent actions which have actually been disruptive. Shuki has repeatedly edit warred to maintain a fringe view as gospel truth in a number of articles:

Complaint against Shuki collapsed to avoid confusion. It will not be addressed in this request, which concerns you. Please make it the subject of a separate request if deemed necessary. Sandstein 05:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Shuki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: Shuki has repeatedly edit warred at a number of articles removing any mention of their either being in occupied territory or claiming that certain places, such as the Golan Heights is in Israel. Edit-warring to push an extreme minority view as fact and removing what countless high quality sources say. Examples:

On Ohalo College, repeatedly add text saying that the college is in "Golan Heights, Israel" as well as removing what Shuki calls "POV cats", [102], [103], [104]
On Herzog College quickly reverts multiple times removing that the college is in the Israeli-occupied territory, [105], [106]
On Ariel University Center of Samaria repeatedly removing that it is in occupied territory [107], [108] and later claiming that it is not "in Palestinian area" [109]
On Katzrin repeatedly placing fringe minority terminology before standard terminology that Shuki even admits is more widely used in the sources and again removes any mention of it being in occupied territory [110], [111]

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): Notification of ARBPIA sanctions
Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Whatever

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: There are many more examples, but the gist of the issue is Shuki's insistence on using minority viewpoints as gospel truth and rejecting the overwhelming majority of sources as either "anti-Israel" or "ignorant".

I have made exactly one revert to the page total, not just in 24 hours. That one revert is this. The next edit I made was not a revert, that was a compromise edit suggested at the NPOV noticeboard that does not include either of the disputed phrasing, "occupied Golan Heights" or "Golan Heights, Israel". Shuki edit-warred to maintain a phrasing that represents an extreme minority POV, that the Golan is in Israel. I made one revert of that material. That I prepared an AE request in my userspace on Shuki (collapsed above) is not harassment nor is it a legal threat. That I asked Shuki if he or she would rather I not file that report and instead of continually reverting is also not a legal threat nor is it harassment. This report is based on Shuki edit-warring to maintain a fringe view as fact and being upset that I called him or her out on it. nableezy - 05:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy

Comments by George

I believe the "two month topic ban" you mentioned was reversed a few days later. ← George^talk 00:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was originally a four month ban, but shortened to two month. --Shuki (talk) 00:44, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you're misreading the January 6, 2010 result of Nableezy's appeal, where Sandstein wrote that "the ban is hereby lifted." ← George^talk 00:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by SD: Shukis behavior lately has been very disruptive, Shuki reverted the Ohalo College 3 times, re adding that the university's location is in Israel. [112] [113][114]

The entire world sees Golan as occupied. The United Nations [115] United States [116] European Union [117] United Kingdom [118] Arab League [119]

Same thing at Herzog College, I revert 1 time he reverts 2 times and tells me to "take this POV to a central discussion before slapping it anything" He calls the worldview pov while he re inserts the minority Israeli viewpoint and tells me to take it to a central discussion when I had already made a post at the talkpage and he didn't respond: [120]

This behavior continues over several articles: take Mey Eden for example. The perfectly suitable and neutral category:Companies operating in Israeli-occupied territories. I revert 1 time and open the discussion at the talkpage explaining how the worldview is that it is occupied and how the category is suitable: [121] he reverts twice [122] [123] and says "take this POV to a central discussion before slapping it anything" when i had already opened the discussion at the talkpage without him responding.

Not only that, but he makes a post at the Israel WP project in an obvious attempt to gather Israel supporters [124] and he has continued to do that telling other people at WP Israel to "join the Cfd" [125] clearly canvassing/votestacking.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:43, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Supreme Deliciousness, you should understand what canvassing actually means before making false accusations. I told Number57 to join the Cfd since I know that Number57 has a different POV than me and I always want more visibility and comments, that is not canvassing. As for the other behaviour, if there is an issue with me, open a separate request. Given that, the cats I were removing are now disputed at the Cfd and it seems consensus from several uninvolved I-P editors does in fact support me on those edits to the dubious cats. --Shuki (talk) 00:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments By unomi

Nableezys attempt at resolving this on the talk page while making it clear that shukis case is weak seems to be a superior solution to edit warring. If anything Nableezy should be commended for not starting the AE before Shuki had a final chance to correct himself. Unomi (talk) 00:53, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Nableezy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I do not see how mentioning this draft AE report on Shuki's talk page and the single revert cited can be considered disruptive, let alone warrant sanctions. It is on the contrary good practice to seek a solution through discussion before making AE requests, so showing this draft report to Shuki is commendable. Unless other admins disagree, I'll close this report without action and remind Shuki that AE is not a weapon to be employed against people with whom one disagrees. Any serious concerns about Shuki's editing should not be discussed here but be made the subject of a separate request if necessary. Sandstein 05:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Sandstein - this report can be closed without action. PhilKnight (talk) 09:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So closed. Sandstein 10:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT

User requesting enforcement: Plot Spoiler (talk) 05:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Users against whom enforcement is requested

Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Vexorg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
NickCT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Principles

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[126] Supreme Deliciousness: Factsontheground, Do not be afraid, You see The Lobby has dominated Arab-Israeli article for a long time, and you are one of the few who challenges their Israeli pov pushing, so this is why they are trying to collectively get rid of you.
[127] Vexorg: Support for Factsontheground - having being the recent target of the disingenuous Zionist Lobby on Wikipedia, particularly by the attention seeking MBz1 and her little sidekick Stellarkid, I just wanted to voice my support. These editors who attack you have a real transparent political agenda. Don't let them get you down, just keep editing to make Wikipedia as free from political bias as you can.
[128] NickCT: Support for Factsontheground - There certainly is a disingenuous Zionist Lobby on Wikipedia. If you don't believe me, take any article regarding a contentious Israel-Palestine issue than look at how many of the people contributing to the article/talk page actually are Isreali. It's a little scary. For contentious China related articles, you don't get ethnic Chinese editors trying to control the article. Same goes for pretty much every other nation but Israel. P.S. I thought Mbz was Stellarkid's sidekick?

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): "Not applicable"
Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Topic ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: I am filing this ArbCom request due to the excessive conspiracy mongering by a group of editors that continually accuse those editors of whom they disagree with of being part of some “Zionist Lobby.” Such accusations lack any civility or decorum, and at the most base level, destroy the goodwill necessary to create neutral and informative articles. These accusations are the most severe violations of WP:Assume good faith and WP:Personal attacks. And worst of all, this ugly behavior is harmful to the overall Wikipedia community.

Such examples abound on the talk page (specifically this section) of Factomancer, previously Factsontheground.

The user Stellarkid also has a detailed report on this endemic problem here: [129]

This has simply gone too far. Saying that there is a “Zionist Lobby” on Wikipedia trying to suppress “the truth” logically means that these users have a monopoly over the truth and everybody they disagree with is guilty of POV. This is fundamentally destructive to Wikipedia and any attempt neutrality. Calling a user part of “cabal” of anti-Palestinian Wikipedia editors is as slanderous as calling somebody a racist.

Lastly, these remarks violate EVERY principle of Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles, also known as WP:ARBPIA.

Purpose of Wikipedia: Wikipedia is not to be used to promote a “political or ideological struggle”
Decorum: Severely violates WP:Personal attacks, WP:Assume good faith, WP:Incivility
Editorial process: No editorial process exists if you believe you have a monopoly over the truth and that those that disagree with you are part of some “Zionist lobby”
Dispute resolution: Same as above. If you are always in the right, there’s nothing to resolve.

Ultimately, this status quo cannot continue and this ugly behavior should stop and be sanctioned in the future. Calling those individuals that disagree with you as part of a Zionist lobby is simply slanderous and detrimental to Wikipedia. Plot Spoiler (talk) 05:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.

Discussion concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT

Statement by User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT

Statement by Supreme Deliciousness: I would like to point out that I did not name one single person as a member of anything, and I did not say "Zionist lobby" or "Jewish lobby", I said "The lobby".

And I would like to point out these news articles: [130] [131] and also an article in the so called "Jewish Internet Defence Leage" "we decided to get more involved behind the scenes, and many people submitted these names" "We are also looking to get a lot more active on Wikipedia", and also in that article they point out several Wikipedia users (including an admin arb drafter). and also I remember very clearly I have read a news article about some sort of joint collaboration between pro-Israeli editors and they was gonna get together and vote to get one of they're people to become an administrator, I cant find the article right now, but I remember very clearly I have read this.

So me mentioning a "lobby" was not really unfounded. Take a look at several discussions at Wikipedia for example when they discussed facktsontheground at the ANI, it was clearly an attempt by a specific group of editors to get rid of her.

This issue was brought up at the ANI and they was told "enough", so when they failed to get action taken against me and others there, they are now attempting the same thing here instead.

But I now understand that mentioning a "lobby" may not be the best thing to do so if an admin tells me to not mention a "lobby" again, I can do that. And I can strike out my comment or delete it upon request from admin. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:43, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NickCT:

Several Points

1) On reflection, the term "Zionist Lobby" was probably unecessarily inflammatory. I think "Hardline pro-Israeli contingent" would have been more appropriate and accurate. I apologize for the wording and will strike if requested. I would point out that I was simply repeating Vexorg's wording.

2) I've been involved in battling for what I see as NPOV on a number of articles (e.g. against Global warming conspiracy theories on Climatic Research Unit email controversy), and I have to say, I have never met a group so ready to bring debates to arbitration as pro-Israel editors. I've been falsely arbitrated against for everything from 3RR to Sockpuppetry over editting Israel-Palestine articles. Frankly, I think much of this arbitration is frivilous. It is just a group of editors trying to throw a bunch of accussations around to see if anything sticks. It would save allot of peoples time and energy if there were a means to protect against this kind of shinanigans.

3) I would point out that on a number of occasions I've worked to remove what I perceived as NPOV material biased against Israel (e.g. this). I think the editors filing this complaint would be hard pressed to provide examples of times they've fought for content which was critical of Israel.

4) As to "Severely violates WP:Personal attacks, WP:Assume good faith, WP:Incivility" - I would point out that the comments that caused this complaint weren't directed at any specific editor(s) and hence aren't WP:Personal attacks. I would also point out that simply saying that editors exist who support almost any given cause is self-evident and should violate WP:Assume good faith. As to WP:Incivility, haven't read this policy in detail, but I'm guessing it's one of those vague ambiguous ones that acts as a "catch-all" for this kind of arbitration.

5) If anyone is was offended by my wording, please let me know on my talk page. Taking things straight to arbitration is counterproductive. I'm usually willing to explain and/or strike my comments.

Best, NickCT (talk) 14:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Vexorg: Well it looks like this is the latest of a series of houndings by a bunch of politically motivated editors who are trying to remove anyone from editing articles in a manner which doesn't conform to their political agenda. In fact ironically this report by Plotspoiler violates Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Principles as does this report by Mbz1] and this one by Stellarkid. I was even stalked at a sockpuppet report by Mbz1 yesterday. Administrator Georgewilliamherbert called for enough here. And I agree. And whether you call it a Zionist Lobby, pro-Israel Lobby or just a Lobby, it's still a Lobby. And a Lobby which is transparently trying to get certain editors like myself banned from editing topics which fall within their political agenda. This report is the continuation of disruptiveness by this bunch of editors including user:Mbz1, user:Stellarkid an now [[user:Plotspoiler]. Their political motivations ore obvious despite theirs claims of victimisation and I'm not going to waste any more time on this nonsense, save defend myself against false accusations. Vexorg (talk) 15:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT

Comment by Wikifan12345 I am really getting tired of seeing editors accused other users of being part of some master Jewish cabal that is attempting to take over wikipedia and convert it into a Zionist propaganda mill (if such thing even exists!). It automatically creates a feeling of intense bad faith and undermines the credibility of the editing process. I know everyone has their opinions and no doubt most people involved in I/P sit on one side of the fence, but to constantly vilify and portray the other side as intrinsically evil must stop. What would happen if I were to accuse every editor I didn't agree with as being an agent of a Saudi-funded Islamist branding campaign? Hopefully topic banned. Wikifan12345 (talk) 06:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, or crypto-antisemitic anti-Israeli pov pushers. Unomi (talk) 06:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See also WP:ANI#Enough, where I have warned both sides of this that they need to disengage. I'm not sure that AE is necessary or appropriate - godzilla is warming up and stretching out on ANI as we speak, and this might be forum shopping here, and I currently hold both "sides" of this equally at fault in the current situation - but do what you will. Please notify on the ANI thread if any enforcement action comes of it, hopefully visa versa as well. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- George I have disengaged. I have had enough. but when one side is continually filing these disruptive reports on has to defend oneself. I am named in this report and I don't think it's fair to equally blamed for continuing some fight when I am just here to defend myself. plot spoiler has just purposely dragged this up to continue a fight. Vexorg (talk) 15:33, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I won't pretend to defend editors who accuse others of being a part of a cabal, but it's worth keeping in mind that there have been pro-Israel groups lobbying on Wikipedia before. That can certainly lead editors to be more suspicious than normal of it happening again. ← George^talk 10:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pro or anti, I hope such editors are topic banned. It brings to mind PalestineRemembered who was a huge drain on wikipedia resources. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 11:33, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I won't pretend to defend editors who accuse others of being a part of a cabal, but it's worth keeping in mind that there have been anti-Israel groups lobbying and trying to manipulate Wikipedia before. That can certainly lead editors to be more suspicious than normal of it happening again. --212.78.230.249 (talk) 14:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Request concerning User:Gatoclass

User requesting enforcement: --Mbz1 (talk) 14:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Users against whom enforcement is requested

Gatoclass (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Principles

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): "Not applicable"

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Topic ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The article in question is Maimonides Synagogue. Gatoclass is an administrator, who has the say on the articles DYK nominations. The first difference I provided, in which the user claims "Practically every paragraph contains some instance of Muslims "attacking" Jews, none of it with any context whatever" is more than enough to kill the nomination. Please read the article. There are no any place describing Muslims attacking Jews, except the one instance that happened 800 years ago, when Bedouins tried to attack a burial procession of Maimonides, but stopped, when they learned whose burial procession it was. Each and every statement of the article is well sourced. In the second and the third differences the user makes a claim about his own sources, and removes well sourced info because of those mystical sources. The last two differences were provided to show the user language towards Israel and Zionists. The user is very involved with the subject, much more involved than an admin could allow himself to be involved. IMO the user should be banned on influencing DYK decisions on the articles with his more than unfair claims and POV. The administrators, who have much more power than regular users do have to be neutral. As it is shown by the differences I provided Gatoclass is not netural at all.--Mbz1 (talk) 14:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC) }}[reply]

I have nominated and approved numerous articles for DYK so I've interacted with all the editors that frequent Template talk:Did you know. In my experience, and I'm sure others can attest the same, Gatoclass frequently fights doggedly not to allow Israel or Holocaust related articles be approved for DYK. Template talk:Did you know has hundreds of edits a day, so it's really difficult to find old diffs. One example, which I have archived for easy access is Talk:Palestinian Land Law/Archive, where Gatoclass used his admin powers to remove an article from the queue after it was approved by another editor. Then proceeded to editwar in the article, defacing the article with templates, then claiming that the templates indicate that the article is problematic. If time permits I will track down more diffs which establish that Gatoclass has abused his admin powers to futher his POV in the I-P conflict. His AE comments, where he always falls on the side of the anti-Israel editor is further evidence of his POV. What I'm hoping from this is that Gatoclass can simply promise to avoid I-P articles that are up for DYK and stop abusing his admin powers in the process.--brew crewer (yada, yada) 16:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

@@ Line 494: / Line 494: @@
 The article in question is  [[Maimonides Synagogue]]. Gatoclass is an administrator, who has the say on the articles DYK nominations. The first difference I provided, in which the user claims "Practically every paragraph contains some instance of Muslims "attacking" Jews, none of it with any context whatever" is more than enough to kill the nomination. Please read the article. There are no any place describing Muslims attacking Jews, except the one instance that happened 800 years ago, when [[Bedouin]]s tried to attack a burial procession of [[Maimonides]], but stopped, when they learned whose burial procession it was. Each and every statement of the article is well sourced. In the second and the third differences the user makes a claim about his own sources, and removes well sourced info because of those mystical sources. The last two differences were provided to show the user language towards Israel and Zionists. The user is very involved with the subject, much more involved than an admin could allow himself to be involved. IMO the user should be banned on influencing DYK decisions on the articles with his more than unfair claims and POV. The administrators, who have much more power than regular users do have to be neutral. As it is shown by the differences I provided Gatoclass is not netural at all.--[[User:Mbz1|Mbz1]] ([[User talk:Mbz1|talk]]) 14:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 }}
+I have nominated and approved numerous articles for DYK so I've interacted with all the editors that frequent [[Template talk:Did you know]]. In my experience, and I'm sure others can attest the same, Gatoclass frequently fights doggedly not to allow Israel or Holocaust related articles be approved for DYK. [[Template talk:Did you know]] has hundreds of edits a day, so it's really difficult to find old diffs. ''One'' example, which I have archived for easy access is [[Talk:Palestinian Land Law/Archive]], where Gatoclass used his admin powers to remove an article from the queue after it was approved by another editor. Then proceeded to editwar in the article, defacing the article with templates, then claiming that the templates indicate that the article is problematic. If time permits I will track down more diffs which establish that Gatoclass has abused his admin powers to futher his POV in the I-P conflict. His AE comments, where he ''always'' falls on the side of the anti-Israel editor is further evidence of his POV. What I'm hoping from this is that Gatoclass can simply promise to avoid I-P articles that are up for DYK and stop abusing his admin powers in the process.--''[[User:Brewcrewer|<span style="font family:Arial;color:green">brew</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Brewcrewer|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#2E82F4">crewer</span>]] [[User talk:Brewcrewer|(yada, yada)]]'' 16:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

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