Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jackson Davis (3rd nomination)

Jackson Davis

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Jackson Davis
• Articles for deletion/Jackson Davis (2nd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/Jackson Davis (3rd nomination)

Jackson Davis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

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Fails our biographical notability criteria, general notability criteria and actor notability criteria. All the sources are 1 sentence mentions except the article from his local paper of his home town. Contributors have been asked to add more sources so it passes Wikipedia's notability criteria, but have failed to do so. Otterathome (talk) 19:35, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Keep. The article already passes the general notability guideline, and the previous AfD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jackson Davis (2nd nomination)) was less than a month ago. -- Eastmain (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I'd love to know how it passes the general notability guideline. Already nominated isn't a reason see WP:NOTAGAIN, and the closing admin suggested nothing wrong in relisting it again at the deletion review.--Otterathome (talk) 10:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
• Keep. No indication that evidence of the subject's notability has changed over the last 16 days or that consensus has changed in the 16 days since the prior AFD closed. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk • contribs) 21:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Already nominated isn't a reason see WP:NOTAGAIN, and the closing admin suggested nothing wrong in relisting it again at the deletion review.--Otterathome (talk) 10:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
• Keep. Otterathome appears to have a personal vendetta against lonelygirl15 related articles. I don't say that lightly, as I understand the assumption of good faith for wikipedia. I presume Otterthome makes substantive contributions to other parts of wikipedia. But here's the deal for this article: The last AFD was closed only 16 days ago. When closing the AfD, Pastor Theo wrote: "The article's supporters are invited to strengthen its text, while those who favor deletion are welcome to revisit this subject later in the year if the article has seen no substantial improvements." "Later in the year" is not 16 days by any good faith understanding. Furthermore, after the 2nd AfD was not successful, Otterathome immediately requested a deletion review, which was only closed seven days ago. During these debates, Otterathome falsely claimed that I was part of the lonelygirl15 team to try to invent a conflict of interest, based on some parody vids I have uploaded on youtube. That claim was, if not intentionally malicious, at least indicative that s/he is not examining the subject matter and information around it closely enough to be making serial AfDs. Lastly, there is a current Wikiquette alert outstanding against Otterathome regarding his edits in this area, that provides more detail about all this.--Milowent (talk) 21:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Already nominated isn't a reason see WP:NOTAGAIN, and the closing admin suggested nothing wrong in relisting it again at the deletion review. I didn't falsely claim anything, and so what there's a Wikiquette alert on me? Two people have already responded to it stating I had done nothing wrong. Here's a somewhat amusing quote from it: "My advice to Otterathome is, if you find it impossible to deal with the kid stuff calmly and patiently, just stay away from it. Nobody reads it except kids anyway, and it keeps them away from more important articles until they mature a bit. Kids have a very skewed view of notability, but getting into holy wars about it is just a waste of time.".--Otterathome (talk) 10:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Otter you are quite the troll, aren't you? I think we all know who the kid who likes to waste time is here --Milowent (talk) 11:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Keep: What has it been a week, since this matter was resolved? Let's see Lonelygirl15 is still notable, Jackson Davis was still a major part of it, so what has changed? I don't get it. Mathieas (talk) 23:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Already nominated isn't a reason see WP:NOTAGAIN, and the closing admin suggested nothing wrong in relisting it again at the deletion review. Nobody is disputing the notability of lonelygirl15, actors notable for one show is a WP:BIO1E which is shown by the serious lack of sources.--Otterathome (talk) 10:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Even if he is only notable for one show (which clearly he's not, he's notable for at least three, but that's besides the point) I'd like to take the following quote from the policy you linked to:

"If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate."

I would argue that lonelygirl15 is a highly significant event due to the information here, and I would argue that Jackson Davis's role was a large one because he was one of the three major actors in the show from nearly the beginning, was the only actor in the show to travel to the UK to participate in the show's sister series KateModern and was one of only two actors to continue onto the follow-up series LG15: The Resistance, which makes him the longest running actor on all EQAL LG15-Universe shows combined. --Zoeydahling (talk) 15:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

• Keep. This is clearly a personal vendetta by an individual who has little respect for the wikipedia process or the web series genre of entertainment in general. It needs to end now because it just takes away from the valuable time needed to research and build pages. It would be helpful if the senior admins at wikipedia did the right thing here and informed this individual that they need to be more respectful of the broader wiki community and stop posting these intrusive and disruptive deletion notices which are clearly motivated by a personal bias against the web series genre in general rather than any well founded and coherent argument. If wikipedia wants to retain their author base they need to put a swift and decisive end to such practices before it is too late. Too much damage has been done already by this individual and I call on the head admins to take action now to prevent it from continuing in the future.--Modelmotion (talk) 23:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  • None of that seems to have anything to do with the notability of the article, read Wikipedia:Articles for deletion to see how to participate properly.--Otterathome (talk) 10:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
• Keep I see absolutely no reason that the page needs to be deleted 16 days after the prior discussion was closed. In the interest of moving this along though, I have added a number of additional sources to the page. --Zoeydahling (talk) 05:54, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Already nominated isn't a reason see WP:NOTAGAIN, and the closing admin suggested nothing wrong in relisting it again at the deletion review. Thank you for adding 7 more sources, here's are my reasons why they don't contribute to the notability of the article. 5. Gregory Mantell is a non-notable webshow YouTube channel interview with a number of people including him. 8. Is from eqal.com which is not independant of the subject. 9. & 10. are just links to music videos he supposedly had minor appearances in. 11. Appears to suggest he hosted a non-notable amatuer comedy show. 12. & 13. More minor appearances in non-notable webshows. So all in all, just more minor stuff.--Otterathome (talk) 10:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
    • I actually think WP:NOTAGAIN works against you here based on the following quotations:

"An article that was kept in a past deletion discussion may still be deleted if deletion is supported by strong reasons that were not adequately addressed in the previous deletion discussion; after all, consensus can change." (You have not included any new arguments that were not addressed in the last AfD.)

"If an article is frivolously nominated (or renominated) for deletion, then editors are justified in opposing the renomination. Frivolous renominations may constitute disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate a point, especially when there was a consensus to keep it in the past, or when only a short time has elapsed since the last nomination." (emphasis added). 16 days after the AfD and 7 days after the Deletion Review is definitely a "short time."

"If an article was kept because it is potentially encyclopedic and can be improved or expanded, one should allow time for editors to improve it. Therefore, it is appropriate for editors to oppose a re-nomination that does not give enough time to improve the article." (16 days is hardly enough time to improve upon an article.)

Additionally, your comment about the closing admin saying that the article can be renominated does not support your 16 day renomination: "The article's supporters are invited to strengthen its text, while those who favor deletion are welcome to revisit this subject later in the year if the article has seen no substantial improvements." "Later in the year" is definitely not only 16 days later.

As far as your assessment of my sources, while I agree with some of them, I am confused or disagree about others. I am still new to this process, so perhaps if I am mistaken in my assessment here, you can direct me to the WP that says otherwise, but here are my thoughts:

• Gregory Mantell - Gregory Mantell is both a cable and web show [1] and therefore I am unsure why it would be any less notable than any other cable TV shows.
• Why is a source from EQAL not notable? Jackson Davis does not control what EQAL puts out. He is an actor who works for the production company. Would Summit Entertainment putting out a statement on Kristen Stewart then be considered non-notable? I read WP:IS but it says nothing about sources put out by a larger company that one works for, only sources that the subject themselves or their PR people put out about them.
• What makes ACME Comedy non-notable? It is a well-known comedy show that has featured well-known celebrities and comedians including: Wayne Brady, Adam Carolla, Bryan Cranston, Joel McHale, Kel Mitchell, Ryan Stiles, Fred Willard, Wil Wheaton, among others. [2]
• Raul Midon is a notable singer, so why would an appearance in one of his music videos be considered non-notable?

Thanks. --Zoeydahling (talk) 14:53, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

• Additionally, I'd like to point out your arguments about the policies which Jackson fails are not true based on the policy descriptions:

• Wikipedia:BIO - "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject... If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be needed to prove notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability." -- The coverage provided by the Lancaster Sunday News is in-depth. Additionally, there are a number of other sources that provide less in-depth but still significant coverage of Jackson, including his interview with Gregory Mantell and the press release by EQAL.
• WP:ENT -- "Has had significant roles in multiple commercially produced or significant films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." His significant roles include: lonelygirl15, KateModern, and LG15: The Resistance, among others.
• WP:NOTABILITY -- "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." I would argue that 13 sources constitutes significant coverage. Even if you do not count all of them as "worthy" there are still a number of in-depth articles or articles with more than just a "trivial mention" and interviews that suggest he has received significant coverage.

--Zoeydahling (talk) 15:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

• WP:BIO - Yes, that is a local newspaper from his hometown, and is the only non-trivial source on the subject so still fails WP:N, see Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_not_temporary. Any notable biography is expected to have at least two, and not ones just from their hometown. Interview is a non-notable web show so isn't WP:RS, and EQAL is a company he worked for so is not independant.
• WP:ENT - It doesn't state anything about webshows, but I don't know if any of them are "commercially produced or significant" because they have so few sources. They are part of the lonelygirl15 series so they are from the same company with many of the same characters so are barely considered seperate or new productions, just another web-series.
• WP:NOTABILITY - Adding up one line sentences from lots of places doesn't equal significant coverage. So there is still only 1 article of significant coverage by his local hometown newspaper.--Otterathome (talk) 17:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC)