Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland

Irish Wikipedians' notice board
Home Irish Wikipedians' related news	Discussion Ireland related discussion (at WikiProject Ireland).	Active Users Active Irish Users	WikiProjects Irish WikiProjects	Stubs Major Irish stubs	Peer review Articles on Peer review	FA Articles on FA review	FA Drive Articles under consideration for FA drive

Archives For older Archives see here Archives
/Archive 4 (March 2008) /Archive 5 (1 April 2008-17 April 2008) /Archive 6 (April 2008-September 2008) /Archive 7 (October 2008-December 2008) /Archive 8 (January 2009-April 2009) /Archive 9 (May 2009-July 2009) /Archive 10 (August 2009-October 2009)

RFC: calling Northern Ireland a "country"

An RFC has been opened inviting comment on how to describe Northern Ireland in that article. All comments are welcome. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 22:58, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

assumed office lack of clarity

in most irish poltician pages, they have "assumed office" for both the date they win an election and they date they are appointed to a particular position in government or party, which is quite unclear...,

and often either one of the other dates are not filled in.

the info could actually be in these vertical timelines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_South_Central_by-election,_1999#TDs

but the term needs to cleared up first, and does wikipedia have bulk editing?

i was hoping to scrape the info for a timeline, but even dbpedia uses termstart for both coming from wikipedia

they also use "in office" for past periods, but again there still seems to be no distinction between dates and periods elected and time periods of position taken/appointed to once elected.

so i guess im looking for the categories to split and defined more clearly across all irish politicians, whats the best way to get that done?

I also raised this here as it seems to apply for all politicians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#assumed_office_lack_of_clarity —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lostexpectation (talk • contribs) 12:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

elected vs position when elected. looking again i see in office is for past periods(two dates) but there still seems to be no distinction between dates and periods elected and time periods of position taken/appointed to once elected. some sub class of 'office' is what im looking for http://dbpedia.org/page/Brian_Cowen

I raised it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_officeholder#elected_vs_positions_when_elected

Lostexpectation (talk) 00:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments requested on Sinn Féin articles

See Talk:Sinn_Féin#Proposal_to_re-orient_SF_articles. Mooretwin (talk) 19:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

New National Graves Association, Belfast is interesting but very POV

Heads up, really neat new article National Graves Association, Belfast, but has major POV/tone issues with things like "to honor the sacrifices", "martyrs of the cause", etc. Interesting stuff, but needs a little work. Just FYI. MatthewVanitas (talk) 23:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

These issues should be discussed on the article's talk page - see WP:NPOV dispute Hohenloh ⁺ 14:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

No harm attracting other interested editor unaware of it. Fergananim (talk) 15:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

User:Mil 09 has also been making changes to Milltown Cemetery. I've started a discussion at the article's talk page, if someone could take a look. Some of the POV problems have been fixed, but the article still needs a lot of work. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 16:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_names#Anti-Nationalist

Apparently all nationalists are Nazis... ~ R.T.G 00:45, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Justice Theodore Conyngham Kingsmill Moore

Here is a new article about an Irish supreme court judge who seems to be famous at fly fishing. He was elected to the 4th and 5th Seanad on the university ticket and one of the top law prizes in Trinity is the TC Kingsmill Moore Memorial Prize. There is nothing but web reference on the article but perhaps someone can categorise it and maybe even add a picture or something. He is often quoted in British as well as Irish law and fly fishing expertise. ~ R.T.G 16:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Republic of Ireland vs France (2010 FIFA World Cup Play-Off)‎

Article on last nights match is up for AfD if any one cares to add their tuppence worth to the deletion debate GainLine ♠ _♥ 22:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Request for opinion and input

Hi there, I've recently re-worked Michael Scott (Irish_author) and the related pages for his The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel series pages, would you please stop by them and give them a lookover, upgrading them where deserved? I'd appreciate any suggestions for improvement :) Thank you in advance! Zephfya (talk) 15:18, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Reigion articles

I have made a stab at organising the religion in Ireland articles:

• Christianity in Ireland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - new page that needs expanding
• Protestantism in Ireland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - new page that needs expanding
• Religion in the Republic of Ireland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - moved some info elsewhere, needs expanding

I will carry on with building the articles. There are numerous articles that can be tied into the overview articles. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Opening of discussion for a possible semi-protection of Derry and County Londonderry

Join the discussion at Talk:Derry#Opening of discussion for semi-protection of both city and county page. Footyfanatic3000 ^{(talk  · contribs)} 19:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Move requests for certain Irish language titled articles

Hi, move discussions are under way at Conradh na Gaeilge, Foras na Gaeilge and Seachtain na Gaeilge concerning whether they should be moved to the English language version of their titles. Please feel to join in these discussions. Tx, Snappy (talk) 18:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanx for drawing attention to this. Hohenloh ⁺ 00:14, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

They are commonly known in English by those names, but should be translated alongside for non-gaeligori.Red Hurley (talk)

New stub Seisún (Irish music jam session)

I realised that there's no article for Seisún, so created a very basic stub. Would appreciate any input into expanding the concept of "jam-session for traditional Irish music." This institution certainly seems common throughout the US and Canada. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

There's already a comprehensive article at Irish traditional music session. No need for another one, IMO. Hohenloh ⁺ 21:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

New pages Patrick Honohan and John Dooley Reigh

Please add the usual comments and extras.Red Hurley (talk) 18:45, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

New page Irish Race Conventions

Surprised this wasn't done already. Pls load with images etc.Red Hurley (talk) 11:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Families in the Oireachtas

There is a proposal to rename Families in the Oireachtas to Families in Irish Politics.

Discussion at Talk:Families in the Oireachtas#Requested_move. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:11, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Merger needed

Hi folks, a merger needs to be done on Leinster Junior Cup and Leinster Schools Junior Cup. I don't really know how to do it, anybody else want to do it? Or if not, any tips? Backbeatlistener (talk) 23:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

It's all in WP:MERGE. --Scolaire (talk) 08:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

...or I could just do it myself :-) Scolaire (talk) 12:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Ross Daly

Created a page for Ross Daly which is an Irish musician. Anyone likes to help. Kasaalan (talk) 16:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Pageview stats

After a recent request, I added WikiProject Ireland to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 06:22, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Wow, this is really useful data. I notice we have a good few "Mid" and "Low" importance in the top 25 - do we need to rethink our priorities? There is also a good few "Start" and "C" class articles in the top viewed. I've been running though the Ireland article of late with a mind to getting it re-listed as a GA. Should we be systematic in our approach to improving articles? --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 12:43, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikimedia chapter (redux)

Given the New Year, I thought I would advertise this again. I'm interested in establishing a local chapter for Ireland with the aim of doing off-line work to support Wikimedia and the Irish Wikimedia community. Bites have so far been low (and of the 'curious' type, which is good as so am I). Input, comments and energy of any kind would be very good and very welcome.

The page is on Meta: m:Wikimedia Ireland. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 13:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

New pages Jonah Barrington (judge) and Michael McCarthy (Irish lawyer)

Must be Christmas! Enjoy;Red Hurley (talk) 21:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

List of Irish people in World War I

I recently came across List of Irish people in World War I, and tagged it with some WikiProject tags and am adding some names from Ireland and World War I, plus some other names I am aware of. It is possible that this list could either be merged with the article, or should be a category, so I'm dropping this note off here. There were three divisions that served in WWI, the Ulster one and the two Irish ones. I'm listing people from all three divisions in this article, though that may also need discussion. On a close look, the list also seems to be including those Irish who served elsewhere in the British army as well, and could conceivably cover others. The category is Category:Irish people of World War I. Not sure how to approach this, so any advice would be appreciated. Carcharoth (talk) 09:17, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Not worth starting a new section, and it is very similar material, but on a periodic trawl I do through WWI news stories, I found this - a review of The Soldier's Song, a novel by Alan Monaghan set during WWI and telling the tale of a young Irish soldier from Dublin. Just thought that might be of interest to anyone who was interested in the above post as well. Might even be worth adding a sentence to the article Ireland and World War I? Carcharoth (talk) 19:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

John Flannery

While searching for something else I found this and later this in some archives. He doesn't appear to have an article and I know nothing about him. He may or may not pass WP:POLITICIAN. There is John Flannery and John Flannery (golfer). Perhaps someone can make use of them. --candle•wicke 01:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Martin McGuinness dispute

I would like to invite anyone reading this to participate in a discussion over whether to use "deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland" or "Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland" in the infobox on Martin McGuinness. The discussion can be found here: Talk:Martin McGuinness#"deputy" vs "Deputy". HonouraryMix (talk) 15:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Midlands Gateway

Please could someone have a look at Midlands Gateway ? The external links / refs seem to be very general or dead-links. Is this government project still current / in action ? thisisace (talk) 20:35, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Peter Canavan is a Featured Article Candidate

Just to let you guys know that Peter Canavan's article is a Featured candidate. Please keep up to date with the progress of it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Peter Canavan/archive2 In particular, I need assistant with Alt text, becuase I had never encountered this before I submitted.--Macca7174_talk 09:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Flag related discussion at WP:IMOS

All there is a flag related discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(Ireland-related_articles)#Proposed_change_flags_.28Modern_usage_only.29 which may be of interest to users here Gnevin (talk) 17:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Political history templates

Is it just me are these {{IrishM}},{{IrishR}},{{IrishA}},{{IrishU}},{{IrishL}} template terribly WP:POV laden. For starters there is the random flag for IrishN to the tri-colour on IrishR which some the organisation didn't use. Why is Cumann na nGaedhael and Sinn Féin on IrishM? There is also the random list of song on IrishN. These templates have no inclusion criteria, can they be saved or should they be taked to TFD? Gnevin (talk) 22:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

A couple of the templates need some tweaks, but I fail to see how they're "terribly POV". I also fail to see the problem with the flags you removed. The "gold harp on green" (currently the "Flag of Leinster") has been an Irish nationalist symbol for hundreds of years. The tricolour has been an Irish republican symbol since it was first flown. ~Asarlaí 23:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Why is Cumann na nGaedhael and Sinn Féin on IrishM? I agree the tri-colour,harp flag have been used by many of the organisations of the templates, however for some it was never used and I think it misrepresents some of the organisations on the templates and how these flags where used. By all means having a link to them but to have them so prominent is wrong in my opinion Gnevin (talk) 23:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter that that a few of the groups didn't use the flag. The point is that those flags are the most well-known/commonly-used symbols of Irish nationalism/republicanism/unionism etc. The reason CnaG (1900–1905) and Sinn Féin (1905–1917) are on IrishM is outlined here. However, I think CnaG should be removed, since the article focuses on the CnaG formed in 1923, not the original. ~Asarlaí 23:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Every single thing on IrishM should be removed, as I said on the template talk page. None of the people, organisations, institutions or documents "advocated the establishment, preservation, or restoration of a monarchy as a form of government". Merely recognising, or even representing, the monarch doesn't make you a monarchist; merely not advocating a republican system of government certainly doesn't. Scolaire (talk) 22:49, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for bringign this up. I hate these templates and I am glad to see that I'm not alone. They struck me for some time as being a form of "gang marking" of articles. I recall the wrestle I had to remove the Republican "series" tempalte from the Amhrán na bhFiann article (a long time back).

None of them form a proper Wikipedia:Series and they should all be removed. In article links and See also would suffice in almost all cases and would be more appropriate. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 09:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the templates are very useful, but IrishM really needs to go. Also, I'm sure you'll agree that IrishR is just too big. If you have a glance at its talk page, you'll see that myself and a few others have tried five times to make it more compact — each time these changes have been blocked by the same two editors. ~Asarlaí 13:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

None of the templates represent a Wikipedia:Series. See the History of Brazil article for an example of what a series template should do. The templates above merely list random articles on theme. This is not anything new. They have been like this for years (but I suspect noone would do anything about it for fear of upsetting sensibilities). They all need to go. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 18:44, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Since they don't fit the definition of a "series template", why not just remove the heading "Irish Political History series"? Listing things on a specific theme is generally what navboxes are for. Hence, the articles listed in IrishN/IrishR/IrishU are there because they're linked to those political movements. There's nothing "random" about it. ~Asarlaí 20:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

We've categories to list things on a specific theme. Navboxes group strongly related articles not a loose group of ideas that have no inclusion criteria Gnevin (talk) 12:21, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I have emptied {{IrishM}} per my post above. I will leave it to others if they want to nominate it for deletion. I think {{IrishA}} should definitely go as well - it all looks highly dubious. If you are going to work on / propose deletion of the others, I recommend you leave {{IrishR}} until last. It is the only one of them that generates any passion - just how much passion can be seen here. --Scolaire (talk) 17:15, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

WIll nom these two now Gnevin (talk) 17:18, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_January_24#Template:IrishA and Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_January_24#Template:IrishM Gnevin (talk) 17:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The title has been changed to "Political movements in Ireland" to remove the word series ,however I think the new title doesn't make sense Gnevin (talk) 23:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

What doesn't make sense about the title "Political movements in Ireland" ? ~Asarlaí 00:41, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

If the templates included links to Irish Nationalism ,Irish Republican etc. The it would be ok to use the title "Political movements in Ireland" but at the moment it makes no sense to say it. When it was part of a series it made sense . The best thing to do would be to replace the title with Nationalism, Unionism in Ireland or what have youGnevin (talk) 00:54, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Rannpháirtí anaithnid noted that they didn't fit the definition of "series templates", yet they had the heading "Irish political history series". So, I changed that to "Political movements in Ireland". Right below that heading is the name of the political movement and a link to its article (nationalism, republicanism, unionism etc). It's in big bold writing. I'm not sure what you're proposing here. ~Asarlaí 01:09, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

"Movement" is this sense has quite a narrow meaning. While "Republican movement" is a fairly well understood term, "Nationalist movement" is pretty well meaningless because nationalism has meant different things to different people and at different times. For instance, in the early 20th century both Republicans and Home Rulers would have come under the heading of "nationalism", as would SDLP and Sinn Féin today. I've never heard the terms "Unionist movement" or "Loyalist movement" so I won't even hazard a guess what they might encompass. Anyway, if they're not part of a series why do they need a title at all? Scolaire (talk) 07:37, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Guys, I don't want to appear to be canvassing, but Gnevin opened two TfDs - linked above - as a direct result of this discussion. It would be good if people who expressed strong views here would express their view there as well. Scolaire (talk) 16:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Boyle Roche

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found some concerns with the article which you can see at Talk:Boyle Roche/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Irish Republican or Irish republican ?

There are many biographical articles in which the subject is disambiguated as Irish Republican, for example Richard Barrett (Irish Republican), Thomas Bryan (Irish Republican), Simon Donnelly (Irish Republican), Seán Treacy (Irish Republican) etc., that is with a capital R, and many other that have Irish republican; Daniel Corkery (Irish republican), Charlie Daly (Irish republican), Liam Lynch (Irish republican), Rory O'Connor (Irish republican) etc., that is with a lowercase r. I have no idea which is grammatically correct but if we could choose one option and standardise on that. Snappy (talk) 17:49, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The relevant article is Irish republicanism, so I guess lowercase. Scolaire (talk) 18:00, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Copyvios and need illustrations

Hello ! Sorry for my bad english — I'm french. I've two problems.

First, I transfer two copyvios I reported on Project:WikiProject_Northern_Ireland, because one doesn't concern Northern Ireland… I don't know how works copyvios here.

I was starting to traduce the part of Dromore, County Down dedicated to the cathedral, but I think it's a copyvio : the same text is present here and there, with only little modifications. The initial add of the text in wp is in 2008;

Same problem with the Kildare Cathedral, copyvio of kildare.ie…

Secondly, I need some illustrations for an article (in french) for the North Chapel in Cork. If some people there could take lots of photographies, it could be great!

Thanks a lot.

Nemoi is french, and he beg your pardon for all the stange things he certainly has told here at 03:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemoi (talk • contribs) Hey, the bot, what do you think my last phrase is ? Nemoi is french, and he beg your pardon for all the stange things he certainly has told here at 14:02, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Infobox UK place: distances

I would like to draw the attention of the WikiProject to the ongoing discussion at Template talk:Infobox UK place#Dublin. In summary: {{Infobox UK place}} has the following four fields - |dublin_distance=, |dublin_distance_mi=, |dublin_distance_km=, and |dublin_direction= - should these be kept, or removed? Jack forbes (talk) 14:40, 28 January 2010 (UTC)