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#This discussion is silly. It is perfectly reasonable to oppose putting children in positions of authority. There will obviously be some children who are mature enough, but the unconditional probabilities are against that and a desire to avoid the [[base rate fallacy]] is a sound one. I wouldn't oppose someone because of their age but, of all the reasons I've seen in opposition to this candidate, this is the only one that is well grounded in theory (probability theory in this case). --[[User:RegentsPark|rgpk]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|comment]])</small> 13:09, 22 April 2011 (UTC) |
#This discussion is silly. It is perfectly reasonable to oppose putting children in positions of authority. There will obviously be some children who are mature enough, but the unconditional probabilities are against that and a desire to avoid the [[base rate fallacy]] is a sound one. I wouldn't oppose someone because of their age but, of all the reasons I've seen in opposition to this candidate, this is the only one that is well grounded in theory (probability theory in this case). --[[User:RegentsPark|rgpk]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|comment]])</small> 13:09, 22 April 2011 (UTC) |
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::Dylan620 has 1300+ edits under his name, and seems to do fine. I am 23 years old, but my youger siblings seem more mature than my older siblings. Because of this, i usually don't judge age as a factor when evaluating someones maturity. I think Malleus should show the same consideration. [[Lina Medina]] proves humans can be physically mature at 5 years old. This [[List of child prodigies]] demonstrates kids can be mentally mature beyond their years too. (i know im repeating myself). I just think western society belittles young people too much. Young people are sometimes priceless when it comes to voicing opinions because youngsters tend to be less judgemental. [[User:PassaMethod|<font color="grey" face="Tahoma">Pass a Method</font>]] [[User talk:PassaMethod|<font color="orange" face="papyrus">talk</font>]] 18:16, 22 April 2011 (UTC) |
::Dylan620 has 1300+ edits under his name, and seems to do fine. I am 23 years old, but my youger siblings seem more mature than my older siblings. Because of this, i usually don't judge age as a factor when evaluating someones maturity. I think Malleus should show the same consideration. [[Lina Medina]] proves humans can be physically mature at 5 years old. This [[List of child prodigies]] demonstrates kids can be mentally mature beyond their years too. (i know im repeating myself). I just think western society belittles young people too much. Young people are sometimes priceless when it comes to voicing opinions because youngsters tend to be less judgemental. [[User:PassaMethod|<font color="grey" face="Tahoma">Pass a Method</font>]] [[User talk:PassaMethod|<font color="orange" face="papyrus">talk</font>]] 18:16, 22 April 2011 (UTC) |
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:::You're clearly delusional. [[User:Malleus Fatuorum|Malleus]] [[User_talk:Malleus_Fatuorum|Fatuorum]] 18:28, 22 April 2011 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 18:28, 22 April 2011
Username: Dylan620
User groups: reviewer, rollbacker
First edit: Sep 15, 2007 20:50:05
Unique pages edited: 5,451
Average edits per page: 2.42
Live edits: 10,512
Deleted edits: 2,676
Total edits (including deleted): 13,188
Namespace Totals
Article 3520 33.49%
Talk 186 1.77%
User 1429 13.59%
User talk 3690 35.10%
Wikipedia 1260 11.99%
Wikipedia talk 112 1.07%
File 6 0.06%
MediaWiki talk 2 0.02%
Template 76 0.72%
Template talk 167 1.59%
Help 2 0.02%
Help talk 1 0.01%
Category 6 0.06%
Portal 5 0.05%
Book 48 0.46%
Book talk 2 0.02%
Month counts
2007/09 6
2007/10 1
2007/11 0
2007/12 0
2008/01 0
2008/02 0
2008/03 0
2008/04 0
2008/05 0
2008/06 0
2008/07 0
2008/08 208
2008/09 140
2008/10 276
2008/11 506
2008/12 485
2009/01 102
2009/02 733
2009/03 285
2009/04 448
2009/05 643
2009/06 311
2009/07 2288
2009/08 1304
2009/09 334
2009/10 180
2009/11 69
2009/12 185
2010/01 79
2010/02 207
2010/03 19
2010/04 101
2010/05 144
2010/06 19
2010/07 14
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2010/11 479
2010/12 164
2011/01 281
2011/02 118
2011/03 203
2011/04 135
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Malleus' oppose (discussion moved from main page)
Moving lengthy indented discussion over Malleus Fatuorum's oppose here from the main RFA. I've left the original !vote and first response from Dylan there (copied here). Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 09:48, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
- Discussion starts here
- Oppose. There are already too many children in positions of authority here. Malleus Fatuorum 01:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- You have every right to oppose, but age ≠ maturity; there are 15-year-olds who are easily more mature than some 50-year-olds. On top of that, I'd appreciate it if you evaluated me based on my contributions, rather than my age. --Dylan620 (I'm all ears) 02:33, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- You're talking biological nonsense. Only on wikipedia would anyone make such a claim. Malleus Fatuorum 02:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Malleus, Dylan has a point. Age doesn't equal maturity and you should evaluate him on his contribs and not his age. Evaluating someone on just their age is not following AGF. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:42, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Dylan, please remember to be civil and consider malleus's decision. thanks! Monterey Bay (talk) 02:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- What on Earth has AGF, possibly the most misunderstood policy in the history of misunderstood policies, got to do with anything here Neutralhomer? Malleus Fatuorum 03:00, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Well, you are not assuming good faith by only evaluating his age and not his contribs. Age has nothing to do with being an admin. There is no age limit to be an editor or admin on Wikipedia, so age doesn't matter. If you are going to assume good faith, you should take his contribs and only his contribs into account. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:13, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Then let me spell it out for you, as you clearly don't understand AGF. Dylan620's brain is still developing, and by by no stretch of imagination can be considered to be mature. I understand that there's a body of opinion that these facts should be ignored, and that anyone who can fake "maturity" (which is really a synonym for civility in this wikimadness) for long enough is deserving of the legendary mop, but I'm not one of them. There's really nothing else to be said. Malleus Fatuorum 03:22, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- At this point, I am questioning your maturity, but since this isn't about you nor me, I will step aside. I suggest you do the same. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:10, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Please try to AGF. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 04:18, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- And to think 150 years ago they had teenage military officers. :) Swarm X 19:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- And they had small children working down the coal mines, performing dangerous jobs in cotton mills, cleaning chimneys ... are you suggesting that these are all good things? Malleus Fatuorum 20:14, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Er...no. You opined that "only on Wikipedia" would anyone claim that age ≠ maturity. I'm merely stating that young people have been trusted with much more serious things IRL. Indeed, people become legal adults and can enter virtually any job when their brain is "still developing". Nothing to do with child labor advocacy. Swarm X 20:38, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Your argument is specious; there is no mention of "maturity" on the application for a driving licence for instance. Would you argue that "mature" 12-year-olds have as much right to drive a car as anyone else? Malleus Fatuorum 20:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Can you give any example whatsoever that demonstrates this user should not be considered mature? I only ask because you really haven't justified the opinion. Your only justification was that his "brain is still developing," and that seems kind of weak- the brain doesn't stop developing until ~25 years old. "Developing brain" certainly ≠ "immaturity". Of course, if you think everyone under 25 years old can automatically be considered too immature to be an admin, you're free to hold that opinion. Swarm X 22:07, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- What exactly are you hoping to achieve by this discussion? I have stated my opinion and that's that. End of. That you or others may not share it is a matter between you and your consciences. Malleus Fatuorum 22:44, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- I also think Malleus Fatuorum is being immature. Physically, some kids are way more mature than others (i.e. Lina Medina). Mentally too, some kids are mature beyond their years (see: List of child prodigies) Pass a Method talk 09:28, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
- "There are already too many children in positions of authority here." How many is too many? Sp33dyphil Ready • to • Rumble 09:44, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
- But as a matter of definition the overwhelming majority of kids are not "mature beyond their years", and no evidence has been presented suggesting that this candidate is in any way exceptional. It is not immature to recognise the incontrovertible facts; rather it is those like you who try to deny them who demonstrate immaturity, quite probably because you are a youngster yourself PassaMethod. Malleus Fatuorum 16:26, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
- I also think Malleus Fatuorum is being immature. Physically, some kids are way more mature than others (i.e. Lina Medina). Mentally too, some kids are mature beyond their years (see: List of child prodigies) Pass a Method talk 09:28, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
- What exactly are you hoping to achieve by this discussion? I have stated my opinion and that's that. End of. That you or others may not share it is a matter between you and your consciences. Malleus Fatuorum 22:44, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Can you give any example whatsoever that demonstrates this user should not be considered mature? I only ask because you really haven't justified the opinion. Your only justification was that his "brain is still developing," and that seems kind of weak- the brain doesn't stop developing until ~25 years old. "Developing brain" certainly ≠ "immaturity". Of course, if you think everyone under 25 years old can automatically be considered too immature to be an admin, you're free to hold that opinion. Swarm X 22:07, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Your argument is specious; there is no mention of "maturity" on the application for a driving licence for instance. Would you argue that "mature" 12-year-olds have as much right to drive a car as anyone else? Malleus Fatuorum 20:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Er...no. You opined that "only on Wikipedia" would anyone claim that age ≠ maturity. I'm merely stating that young people have been trusted with much more serious things IRL. Indeed, people become legal adults and can enter virtually any job when their brain is "still developing". Nothing to do with child labor advocacy. Swarm X 20:38, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- And they had small children working down the coal mines, performing dangerous jobs in cotton mills, cleaning chimneys ... are you suggesting that these are all good things? Malleus Fatuorum 20:14, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- And to think 150 years ago they had teenage military officers. :) Swarm X 19:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Please try to AGF. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 04:18, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- At this point, I am questioning your maturity, but since this isn't about you nor me, I will step aside. I suggest you do the same. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:10, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Then let me spell it out for you, as you clearly don't understand AGF. Dylan620's brain is still developing, and by by no stretch of imagination can be considered to be mature. I understand that there's a body of opinion that these facts should be ignored, and that anyone who can fake "maturity" (which is really a synonym for civility in this wikimadness) for long enough is deserving of the legendary mop, but I'm not one of them. There's really nothing else to be said. Malleus Fatuorum 03:22, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Well, you are not assuming good faith by only evaluating his age and not his contribs. Age has nothing to do with being an admin. There is no age limit to be an editor or admin on Wikipedia, so age doesn't matter. If you are going to assume good faith, you should take his contribs and only his contribs into account. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:13, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Malleus, Dylan has a point. Age doesn't equal maturity and you should evaluate him on his contribs and not his age. Evaluating someone on just their age is not following AGF. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:42, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- You're talking biological nonsense. Only on wikipedia would anyone make such a claim. Malleus Fatuorum 02:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- You have every right to oppose, but age ≠ maturity; there are 15-year-olds who are easily more mature than some 50-year-olds. On top of that, I'd appreciate it if you evaluated me based on my contributions, rather than my age. --Dylan620 (I'm all ears) 02:33, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- This discussion is silly. It is perfectly reasonable to oppose putting children in positions of authority. There will obviously be some children who are mature enough, but the unconditional probabilities are against that and a desire to avoid the base rate fallacy is a sound one. I wouldn't oppose someone because of their age but, of all the reasons I've seen in opposition to this candidate, this is the only one that is well grounded in theory (probability theory in this case). --rgpk (comment) 13:09, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
- Dylan620 has 1300+ edits under his name, and seems to do fine. I am 23 years old, but my youger siblings seem more mature than my older siblings. Because of this, i usually don't judge age as a factor when evaluating someones maturity. I think Malleus should show the same consideration. Lina Medina proves humans can be physically mature at 5 years old. This List of child prodigies demonstrates kids can be mentally mature beyond their years too. (i know im repeating myself). I just think western society belittles young people too much. Young people are sometimes priceless when it comes to voicing opinions because youngsters tend to be less judgemental. Pass a Method talk 18:16, 22 April 2011 (UTC)