File talk:Anglospeak(800px)Countries.png

Madagascar is NOT the tiniest bit anglophone (and never really been)

English is no longer official in Madagascar, someone should correct the map. Englisch ist nicht mehr offiziell in Madagaskar, jemand sollte die Karte berichtigen. L'anglais n'est plus officiel au Madagascar, quelqu'un devrait corriger la carte. O inglês já não é oficial em Madagáscar, alguém deveria corrigir o mapa. 84.148.174.96 (talk) 22:14, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

South Africa and Nigeria light blue! As well as Québec

In S.A. barely 7 % speak English as their mother tongue; Afrikaans or Xulu for example are much more spoken. It is just one of the 12 official languages there (as it is in the rest of anglophone Africa). Same thing for Nigeria. Putting those two countries in the same color as GB or USA seems heavily biased by the creator. In this condition the map is not correct. 79.211.110.82 (talk) 19:22, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

As of Quebec, first of all English is explicitly NOT official there, but solely French. That alone should make things clear enough for everybody in charge of the map and interested in non-biased information. Furthermore, did you ever see all of Canada in dark blue in the French language map?? Would be the same thing, but it is correctly put in light blue...

South Africa should definitley be Blue because all the population can speak English. Also, Afrikaans and Zulu are larger, but only slightly. No language in the country makes up more than 30% of the population so NO language in this world would be blue for South Africa in that scenario. However, compared to other light blue countries, south Africa has a large natively english speaking population. There are more English speakers in South Africa than New Zealand and Ireland. Bezuidenhout (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I understand your point, but I think you have to look at it like this: Where is the justification for putting SA the same colour as New Zealand? There, almost 100 % speak it on a native level and EVERYBODY on the street MUST be able to respond to one's questions if asked in English. Otherwise you would assume just not to be in New Zealand. In South Africa, this is simply not the case. There may be a portion of native anglophones almost as big as in New Zealand (or Ireland), but they only compose 7 % of the local populaton, not 100. Furthermore, when you look at the numbers, Afrikaans, Xhosa or Zulu (alphabetical order) are indeed bigger than English - and this not just by an extremely close range - and especially Afrikaans is spoken as a learnt second and third language by many persons. When you say SA wouldn't be on any language map I think you exagerate as LIGHT blue for all of it (and this also for Afrikaans, Xhosa, Zulu etc.) really colours it in exactly ELEVEN cases. They're all official, but none of them applies to the whole populaton (and, as we know, surely not English at first).

If you had around three million native anglophones in China, this would still value in the sense that the number almost equals NZ or Ireland. But - aside from a much much smaller percentage in comparision to the rest of the country than in the SA case - would this qualify to put China in DARK blue, even if they adopted English as co-official? Not really, don't you think; and as a foreign language, English speakers in China outnumber SA. (...which does not mean we should colour China light blue now ;-p) 79.211.117.164 (talk) 08:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I see what you are saying but in response to your point, On the streets in South Africa you can expect EVERYONE to communicate to you in English. Zulu has actually got alot of vocabulary from English and if you take street view to any South African city (even Cape Town where the majority of the population speaks Afrikaans) almost everything is unilinguallly in English and/or billingual. The description of this image on English Language is that "dark blue = primary language", which in South Africa, it is. I don't understand why you are so against South Africa, every South African in this world would agree that SA should be dark blue. It looks incorrect that it, despite having a SUBSTANTIAL English-speaking population (numbering 3 million), is the same colour as the rest of Africa, where many buildings hold "non-English" names. The South African landscape probably has more English in it than Australia and New Mexico, and the "tiny" percentage of natively English Speaking South Africans actually control up to 40% of the South African economy. If one lived you would understand. Bezuidenhout (talk) 15:11, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

For starters, I am not "so against South Africa", in fact I once planned going there^^ (didn't work out, different story). I am not "against" anything nor anyone. And thanks for your reply, at least you stick to a culture of discussion of arguments, this is not self-evident here. But what I'm saying is that this "Anglospeak" map here is generally highly one-sided:

a) Madagascar has been "anglophone" solely on the paper during three years. This has officially been taken back already four months ago, yet noone here changes (or perhaps is just not WILLING to change?!) this very FACT. When it was adopted in a rather sterile way by an autocratic referendum (the current was as well I know, but it at least didn't bother anyone in 2007) it did not take more than two weeks and it was implemented in the map.

b) The Philippines have some 130,000 native anglophones: mainly US citizens in a country of more than 88 million (!) people. You do the math for the percentage. It is co-official, but alongside Filipino, the first official and "national" language (constitution), there are almost ten other national idioms spoken as mother tongues. English is used in business and education, but that's also the case for say, Zambia (which is correctly light blue). And those speaking it have very often a strong accent from a different language (which a dark blue country like the US doesn't have...).

c) Nigeria is said to be the country with the most languages at all. Full stop. English is the official language there, so used in many official purposes, but to put that country the same as say, the US is ridiculous. Besides it isn't even "English", it's a derived pidgin they speak. It is a national lingua franca, but not even always on a wider regional scale.

d) Ok, we've had SA already, and you're from there and obviously not really biased as your're Afrikaner (which, funnily, shows once more about the distribution of mother tongues in your country ;-P), but your argument about 7 % controlling 40 % of the economy (what about the other, bigger 60?) is not really an argument. Zambian national economy also is mainly anglophone. (For your information, I'm German and that doesn't mean we should colour Germany in any blue now just because you might say my knowledge of English as a FOREIGN LANGUAGE is enough to keep up a conversation). And SA, still, is one of the countries with the most official (not even "just" native) languages - in this world. In Zambia (I like that example 'cause I've known somebody from there once) as well you have street signs or whatever in English and with that language you will get along in any big city there.

e) For Quebec see below.

I have exams to write so I won't be back too often anymore and anyway I am not in charge of the maps here and thus not for their correctness, but the "information" given here isn't really worth too much. Sorry. Seems like somebody uses his or her privilige to "bend facts" in the way he or she (or them?) likes them to appear. Dank u well (in any case: Danke) 84.148.155.110 (talk) 11:06, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

English is an official lang. of Quebec along with Fr, I was there last week, everyone there is bilingual. Outback the koala (talk) 02:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

1) It is NOT official in Quebec for a fact...

2) You've probably been near the border or directly in Montreal, really not everybody is bilingual in Quebec. Besides, "bilingual" in a sense of equalitiy with their abilities in French, their sole mother tongue?! Simplicity at its best (or rather worst).

3) When talking national level, what would you as an anglophone Canadian say about [that map] puttin ALL of Canada in the same dark blue as Quebec (or France, Belgium, French Switzerland etc.)??

So much for the neutrality/quality of this map here. 84.148.155.110 (talk) 11:06, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

No, French is the official language for all of Canada. As for the Francophone map you linked to, I don't agree with what is shown in that map. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will go see if I can fix that file as well. Outback the koala (talk) 17:43, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

If you're able to fix/alter maps, it would be very helpful if you went through the list above, too. At least Madagascar is an incontestable fact (or as mapped still right now: error). Thanks. 141.13.246.43 (talk) 13:42, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I also agree that Nigeria should be blue, because the "English" spoken nativley there couldn't be understood as English. Furthermore, why is Guyana and the Philippines in Blue?Bezuidenhout (talk) 11:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Quebec

Regardless of the official status of English in the Canadian province of Quebec; the point is, Quebec is NOT a country. CANADA is a country. If Quebec is to be singled out and coloured light blue, than various US states, British counties, etc, should also be singled out and coloured light blue (there are numerous regions of Wales, for example, where English is NOT the majority language). The colour map mentions "countries" where English is either official or de-facto. This should be fixed and Quebec should be coloured dark blue as it is a Canadian province. Period. 173.180.196.28 (talk) 00:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, it mentions as well "national language" and is, besides, called "AngloSPEAK". And as it is also mentioned above, on the French language map nobody puts Quebec in the same color as the rest. Quebec is a special case and not to be confused with regions within Wales...

Anything but a light blue Quebec is misleading (which means it shouldn't be grey either). Period. 87.182.222.65 (talk) 08:23, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Why is Quebec a special case? There are VAST swaths of Wales that do not speak English. I have no trouble with Quebec's lighter shading (yes, the province is majority Francophone), but again, Quebec is NOT a country (the wording should be changed to "regions" or "areas" instead of "countries"). Period. 173.180.196.28 (talk) 13:14, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree with 173.180.196.28, this does not make sense. We should change Quebec to be dark blue like the rest of Canada. Outback the koala (talk) 17:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I actually agree with the above, Quebec should be coloured dark blue. I am not a "french-canadian" denialist or anything stupid like that, but Wikipedia isn't down to "personal opinion". If we make Quebec light, then New Mexico, New York and Texas should all be light blue since English isn't official there. This map is (as correctly pointed out) "AngloSPEAK", but there there non-English majorities in (as states) Wales, South Africa, Northern Canada (where Indigenous languages are used instead), New Zealand (Maori) and I don't even think Guyanans speak English as their native tongue?? Point is, you are taking advantage of the fact that the province of Quebec has an English-speaking minority. This is unacceptable, especially since countries such as the Philippines and Nigeria are coloured dark blue at the same time??! Bezuidenhout (talk) 20:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

To me it's a matter of factual accuracy. If Quebec is to be light coloured, fine, but the word "country" should be changed to "regions" or "areas." Quebec is a province of Canada and the fact remains; the majority of Canadians speak English. The map, in its current form, implies that Quebec is another "country" and as everybody in the world knows -- Quebec is a Canadian province. 173.180.196.28 (talk) 01:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Considerations

Considerations:

1. Create a shade of blue that represents: "Countries/regions in which the mother tongue of the majority of the population is an English-based creole language but the main language of governance is English"
2. Use the color purple that shows the countries/regions where there is a small English-creole speaking ethnic minority in a country that may or may not use standard English as the language of government.
3. Another shade of blue should refer to the countries in which there is a widely spoken Anglo-creole language in the nation/region although non of official languages are English.
4. Use the color shown below (used to indicate where Russian is spoken) to show countries/regions in which one of the official languages is English but also has the presence of an English-based creole spoken as a lingua franca in informal situations by people who may also be well educated in formal English.
5. Don't forget to use a green square to show cities/settlements/regions where Englsih is a prominent minority language.
6. Use dots to show countries to small to see, e.g. Caribbean, Southeast Asia.

P.S. Don't forget about shading Quebec the right shade.

`

Here are their uses:

English-based creole languages:

• Jamaica, Sierra Leone, Belize, the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos Islands, the Virgin Island, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Montserrat, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Barbados, Grenada, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, Cayman Islands, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Vantu, Torres Strait Islands, the Solomon Islands, and Papua New Guinea are all the countries/dependencies/regions where an Anglo-creole language is the native tongue/lingua franca of the majority population while standard English is the language of government.
• Limonese, Miskito Coast Creole, Colón Creole, Rama Cay Creole, Bay Islands Creole, Bocas del Toro Creole, Bende, Samaná English, Afro-Seminole Creole, Gullah, Aluku, Ndyuka, Paramaccan, Kwinti, Saramaccan, and Aku are all English-based creole languages spoken by a small ethnic minority in a region/country that does not speak their language.

They are spoken in: the eastern coast of Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama roughly stretching from the Caratasca Lagoon in Honduras to the Bocas del Toro Archipelago in Panama; the Bay Islands off the coast of Honduras; the Colombian-controlled Archipelago of San Andrés off the coast of Nicaragua; the Samaná Peninsula in the Dominican Republic; very small, scattered communities in the northeastern Florida wilderness; the South Carolina Lowcountry and the Sea Islands in coastal South Carolina and Georgia; small settlements near the national border in the Maripasoula region of French Guiana; a small community in the interior wilderness of the Marowijne District in Suriname; a small cluster of settlements at the bank of the Coppename River; eastern Suriname wilderness; around the Saramacca River and Suriname River with some populations in French Guiana; an in The Gambia.

• The islands of Saba, Saint Martin, & Sint Eustatius under Dutch & French control, Sranan Tongo in Suriname; and the the Fernandino languages on Bioko Island are all the regions in which the majority of the population speaks an English-based creole language but does not have English as the official language.
• Nigeria, Liberia, Cameroon, Philippines, Singapore, and Malaysia are all countries in which English is not the native tongue but a English-based creole has reached the status of lingua franca in informal settings. Standard English is still used as lingua franca in formal settings.

Refer to this list to get ideas about how to show small countries/regions.

Legend

English

Countries/dependencies where English has official language status and/or is the main mother tongue.    Countries/dependencies where the mother tongue is an English-based Creole but the main language of government is formal English.   Countries/dependencies in which there is a widely spoken Anglo-creole language in the nation/region although non of official languages are English.    Countries where English is official but is not a widely-spoken language.   Countries in which English is not the native tongue but a English-based creole has reached the status of lingua franca in informal settings. Standard English is still used as lingua franca in formal settings as it is also the official language.    English-based creole languages unique to a small ethnic minority.   Cities/settlements where English is a major minority language and/or has a notable presence large presence.

ThisguyYEAH (talk) 02:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Related discussions

The content of this map should not be changed without awareness of previous discussions. Other pertinent discussions and articles:

Template talk:English official language clickable map
File talk:Anglospeak.svg
List of countries by English-speaking population

Lambanog (talk) 04:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)